LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[v0lt]

How can I downmix AC3 5.1 to stereo 2 speakers output in my Windows 7 notebook with LAV?
http://i.imgur.com/R9m4ps.png (http://imgur.com/R9m4p)

[Mixer73]

I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes. Potplayer plays it very well and very sharp in detail using it's internal mpeg2 decoder with hardware acceleration without any post processing. It looks like Potplayer might have been tested with these types of interlaced television files.

Ponder, I play almost all MPEG2 content and I use PotP but I'm in the habit of deleting all the internal decoders, maybe I shouldn't.

Then again nevcairel is a real smart cooking and quick draw developer :0

[nevcairiel]

NevCariel, please... could you try to see why Potplayer's FFmpeg-based hardware decoding can; and, see if it's possible to get LAV video decoder to decode these types just as well? I would very, very much appreciate it.

You're using software decoding, not hardware. (See the hardware acceleration on the right, MPEG2 says Disabled)
Switch LAV Video to software for MPEG-2 as well, and playback should be better. At least for me, in software mode it seemed acceptable, even fine.

I have no control over CUVID hardware decoding, either it works or it doesnt - if it doesnt, complain to NVIDIA. :p

[Dogway]

I had some problems with lavfilters, first it couldn't properly render a corrupted mp3, being corrupted there wasn't much to discuss but winamp had no problems whatsoever so that made me think it could be improved. I deleted it by mistake, even when I had in mind to keep it for you to check :/

Also please check the clip in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163014&highlight=small), in graphedit I could split audio and decode it, but not video despite I was using ffdshow with its MS Video->libavcodec module setted on. So my guess is LAV Splitter wasn't communicating well with ffdshow.

At last there is something very annoying lately. I don't think its MPC-HC fault but I explain. When I have a file with a video and audio stream, and in the same folder another audio file with the same name, when I open the video I get LAV duplicates for Splitter and Audio. This is very strange and makes both audio play at the same time without the ability to disable, or select just one of them. Before it was one LavSplitter and inside you could see all the possible streams and choose alike.

[nevcairiel]

Also please check the clip in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163014&highlight=small), in graphedit I could split audio and decode it, but not video despite I was using ffdshow with its MS Video->libavcodec module setted on. So my guess is LAV Splitter wasn't communicating well with ffdshow.


I tried to play it, and it crashed in ffdshow somewhere, my guess is that ffdshow just doesn't like that format much.
Even crashes with MPC-HCs internal AVI splitter or the MS AVI splitter.

I could probably try adding support for this format to LAV Video, though.


At last there is something very annoying lately. I don't think its MPC-HC fault but I explain. When I have a file with a video and audio stream, and in the same folder another audio file with the same name, when I open the video I get LAV duplicates for Splitter and Audio. This is very strange and makes both audio play at the same time without the ability to disable, or select just one of them. Before it was one LavSplitter and inside you could see all the possible streams and choose alike.

Thats MPC-HCs fault. It opens external audio streams so you can choose in the player. MPC-HCs UI isn't really all that good for it, though.

To stop multiple tracks playing at the same time, you need to enable MPC-HCs internal audio switcher.

[Dogway]

I checked now with an "old" version I had 0.38 and it was the same, same when using ffdshow so I must have been mistaken with mkv playback behaviour, or when I had audio switcher on by default for audio delay, not now anymore since you added it to lavaudio (I use it a lot so thanks!) so enabling audio switcher is yet another resources hog for the player I thought I had got ridden since then. Do you recommend another player which LAVFilters work best?

Also it's really pitty I deleted the mp3 because it was a good straight to the point case that I don't happen to encounter much. I tried to get it back with recuva but nothing. I will come back again if I find something worth for you to improve the filters.

[ryrynz]

Nevcairiel, I have a flash video that causes the media player stop responding. If I playback and enter the LAV settings during playback then exit via OK, Cancel or Apply and then seek afterwards it occurs.
Tested with both the latest SVN and official release MPC and Potplayer using LAV 0.42. I gave the latest nightly LAV a go as well but no change, sample below.

http://www.mediafire.com/?246bybvmhpyhakc

[nevcairiel]

Nevcairiel, I have a flash video that causes the media player stop responding. If I playback and enter the LAV settings during playback then exit via OK, Cancel or Apply and then seek afterwards it occurs.
Tested with both the latest SVN and official release MPC and Potplayer using LAV 0.42. I gave the latest nightly LAV a go as well but no change, sample below.

http://www.mediafire.com/?246bybvmhpyhakc

The only "issue" i see with this file is that its been cut after about 2 minutes of time, so seeking after that will skip to the end, of course. I cannot reproduce any issues if i limit my seeking to the first 2 minutes.

[Reino]

I tried to play it, and it crashed in ffdshow somewhere, my guess is that ffdshow just doesn't like that format much.
Even crashes with MPC-HCs internal AVI splitter or the MS AVI splitter.

I could probably try adding support for this format to LAV Video, though.Known problem (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1542893#post1542893).
LAV Splitter works fine with FFDShow (< rev3823) on CRAM and RLE video though.

[clsid]

Those are paletted formats. Libavcodec expects the palette in a SideData packet. It must be extracted from the extradata and put in a sidedata packet. When using libavfromat that might get done automatically? That is possibly why it works with LAV splitter and not with MS splitter.

[Paladin77]

For the OCD :p there is a typo in LAV splitter description of option: Remove Audio Decoder on Audio stream switch.

Switching is misspelled switchign :D

Description: Remove the old Audio Decoder from the playback chain before switching (misspelled Switchign) the audio stream, forcing Directshow to select a new one.

This option ensures that the preferred decoder is always used, However it does not work properly with all players.

[ryrynz]

I cannot reproduce any issues if i limit my seeking to the first 2 minutes.

Actually nevermind, it appears to be an issue on this PC, thanks.

[mkanet]

Actually lav software decoder is pretty bad for this kind of video too; especially with YADIF; at least on my machine.

If someone is smart/kind enough to figure out a way to play these media files perfectly in directshow with the hardware I have, I would gladly donate good money for it via paypal.

You're using software decoding, not hardware. (See the hardware acceleration on the right, MPEG2 says Disabled)
Switch LAV Video to software for MPEG-2 as well, and playback should be better. At least for me, in software mode it seemed acceptable, even fine.

I have no control over CUVID hardware decoding, either it works or it doesnt - if it doesnt, complain to NVIDIA. :p

[fastplayer]

Switching is misspelled switchign :D
I've reported (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1520417#post1520417)this already a few months ago. It's line 204 now in /demuxer/LAVSplitter/SettingsProp.cpp.

[nevcairiel]

Actually lav software decoder is pretty bad for this kind of video too; especially with YADIF; at least on my machine.

I didn't say enable YADIF.
Disable YADIF, disable CUVID, Enable NV12 output, disable any post-processing filters (NO ffdshow raw or anything else), use a renderer that can deal with this kind of thing, like EVR. Its the only way to get even half-good playback of such files.

Anyway, i can only repeat myself:
I have no interest in working on such cases at this time, because its highly annoying and i personally have 0 content of such nature. To properly handle it, you would need a post-processor that can deal with soft and hard telecine mixed into one, which is not a trivial task.
My resources are very limited, so you'll forgive me when i work on stuff that i consider fun to be working on. :)

[e-t172]

I have no interest in working on such cases at this time, because its highly annoying and i personally have 0 content of such nature. To properly handle it, you would need a post-processor that can deal with soft and hard telecine mixed into one, which is not a trivial task.

Unfortunately, mixing soft and hard telecine (sometimes even switching between the two several times per second) is very common on US HDTV broadcasts. For example, I use CBS as my "torture test" for IVTC.

My experimental ffdshow IVTC filter (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1505475&postcount=13623) was specifically designed to handle this kind of nightmare; mkanet, you might want to give it a try. No promises though.

[madshi]

sometimes even switching between the two several times per second
Ouch, that's nasty! You don't happen to have a sample available like that?

[Pat357]

[QUOTE=e-t172;1543090
My experimental ffdshow IVTC filter (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1505475&postcount=13623) was specifically designed to handle this kind of nightmare; mkanet, you might want to give it a try. No promises though.[/QUOTE] "Not Found"
"The requested URL /files/ffdshow-r3867-pulldown-et172.7z was not found on this server."
Apache/2.2.21 (Debian) Server at e-t172.net Port 80

Do you maybe have another link for this ? I'd really like to test it.
Any plans to make an Avisynth 2.6x plugin ? I think it should not be too much work and this would make it far more universal & portable.

[VipZ]

With latest compiled LAV Filters I am getting the following message when closing down PotPlayer if it was bitstreaming,
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19338638/Bitstream%20crash.JPG

Was ok with 0.42

[nevcairiel]

Any plans to make an Avisynth 2.6x plugin ? I think it should not be too much work and this would make it far more universal & portable.

Avisynth is not capable to handle mIxed content like that because it lacks frame duration information, iirc.

[mkanet]

Hi e-t172, thanks so much. I would love to try it. Could you please post an updated link to it? Your link points to a post to a another link which refers to yet another link, which ultimately points to a direct link to a file that doesnt exist anymore:
http://www.e-t172.net/files/ffdshow-r3867-pulldown-et172.7z

http://e-t172.net/files/

Unfortunately, mixing soft and hard telecine (sometimes even switching between the two several times per second) is very common on US HDTV broadcasts. For example, I use CBS as my "torture test" for IVTC.

My experimental ffdshow IVTC filter (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1505475&postcount=13623) was specifically designed to handle this kind of nightmare; mkanet, you might want to give it a try. No promises though.

[nevcairiel]

With latest compiled LAV Filters I am getting the following message when closing down PotPlayer if it was bitstreaming

Should be fixed again

[VipZ]

Should be fixed again

Thanks for the quick fix as always :)

Which MinGW do you recommend to build with now?

[nevcairiel]

Which MinGW do you recommend to build with now?

Why would that change? I still use the same MinGW i used month ago.

[e-t172]

Hi e-t172, thanks so much. I would love to try it. Could you please post an updated link to it? Your link points to a post to a another link which refers to yet another link, which ultimately points to a direct link to a file that doesnt exist anymore

Sorry for that. I just fixed the link, it should work now.

Ouch, that's nasty! You don't happen to have a sample available like that?

Unfortunately, not anymore. I used to have some when I developed the filter some time ago, but I lost them. If you can get your hand on some 1080i recordings of TV shows broadcast on CBS, you'll probably see some of this madness. I remember when I used CBS recordings of "The Unit" to test my filter, they made me completely redesign the entire thing just so it could handle such huge amounts of insanity.

I believe there is some kind of drug out there which makes engineers randomly switch telecine modes during broadcast. Or maybe there's some children locked in the production who spend their time playing with the buttons on some console. I don't know. Maybe these engineers got their ideas from the ones who produce telecined Blu-rays in Japan.

[VipZ]

Why would that change? I still use the same MinGW i used month ago.

Was wandering if 4.6.2 was preferred over 4.6.1 now or not

[SamuriHL]

Sorry for that. I just fixed the link, it should work now.



Unfortunately, not anymore. I used to have some when I developed the filter some time ago, but I lost them. If you can get your hand on some 1080i recordings of TV shows broadcast on CBS, you'll probably see some of this madness. I remember when I used CBS recordings of "The Unit" to test my filter, they made me completely redesign the entire thing just so it could handle such huge amounts of insanity.

I believe there is some kind of drug out there which makes engineers randomly switch telecine modes during broadcast. Or maybe there's some children locked in the production who spend their time playing with the buttons on some console. I don't know. Maybe these engineers got their ideas from the ones who produce telecined Blu-rays in Japan.

I might be able to grab a sample off my TiVo Wednesday night. MPEG2 HD 1080i. On CBS. Is that what you're referring to that's all messed up? If so I can grab my Survivor recording off the TiVo and split out a few hundred megs and output it as an MPG file if that'd help?

[e-t172]

Well, it's not always like that. If I remember correctly, most of the time it's just switching from time to time (like every 10 minutes of so). You'll probably have to record for a long time to catch a "insane fast-switching" moment. Maybe that just happens when they let the children unattended in the production room.

[SamuriHL]

That's not easy to find then. UGH.

[mkanet]

I tried every single combination possible of settings (along with EVR); but unfortunately either saw intermittent stutter during scene panning or deinterlace combing artifacts or both. I definitely dont blame you for not wanting to work on a solution if you dont need to play these types of files. I can't even comprehend how much work would be involved for getting playback to be smooth with LAV Video decoder.

Anyway, I'll ask around avsforum to see if someone might be interested in helping me play these types of files back smoothly/clearly via a directshow based solution using existing directshow filters (ie avisynth, ffdshow, etc).

I really appreciate your time and effort for LAV filters!
-MKANET

I didn't say enable YADIF.
Disable YADIF, disable CUVID, Enable NV12 output, disable any post-processing filters (NO ffdshow raw or anything else), use a renderer that can deal with this kind of thing, like EVR. Its the only way to get even half-good playback of such files.

Anyway, i can only repeat myself:
I have no interest in working on such cases at this time, because its highly annoying and i personally have 0 content of such nature. To properly handle it, you would need a post-processor that can deal with soft and hard telecine mixed into one, which is not a trivial task.
My resources are very limited, so you'll forgive me when i work on stuff that i consider fun to be working on. :)

[mkanet]

Mystery resolved! Thanks to an AVS forum member for catching this and pointing me to this:

http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/71.aspx

The 29/59 Frame Rate Issue

Solution:
There is only one true solution to this problem: Encode the video with the correct metadata to begin with. The solution is the responsibility of the entity that encoded the video, which means contacting the broadcaster, cable network, or cable company that encoded the video and working with their engineers to resolve the issue.

Workaround
In lieu of attempting the solution listed above, there is a workaround available. A number of GPUs have been identified as able to play back content with the bad frame rate metadata without stuttering or other adverse effects, provided there are no other issues with the system and the correct settings are applied. Note: Other issues and/or incorrect settings in the GPU software may cause stuttering and/or other adverse effects.
Note to wiki editors: Please ensure you have confirmed smooth playback with content that switches frame rates between 29.97 Hz and 59.9401 Hz before adding GPUs to this list.

Display adapters that can switch interlacing on/off quick enough.

NVIDIA

GeForce 8600 GTS
GeForce 9300
GeForce 9400 (including ION platforms)
GeForce GT 430
GeForce GT 440 (same core as 430)
ATI

Radeon HD 4200
Radeon HD 4550
Radeon HD 4650
Radeon HD 5450 with Dynamic Contrast Adjustment turned off
Radeon HD 6850
Intel

Core i3 (Clarkdale)

[dpks]

First off, thanks to nevcairiel for all your hard work on LAV Filters, very much appreciated.

Question for you - how hard would it be to add RAW YUV input support to LAV Video Decoder? e.g. MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, etc. I'd settle for just one of those, whichever is easiest, and can do any required colorspace conversion beforehand.

My application captures interlaced (480i, 576i, or 1080i) from a video camera source, and I want to deinterlace it immediately before resizing and encoding. It'd be awesome if I could use LAV's CUDA or YADIF support to do this.

I'm somewhat familiar with DirectShow coding (but not so much with libav* stuff) - if you give me some rough pointers I could even take a stab at it and contribute the patch back.

[nevcairiel]

Question for you - how hard would it be to add RAW YUV input support to LAV Video Decoder? e.g. MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, etc. I'd settle for just one of those, whichever is easiest, and can do any required colorspace conversion beforehand.


It probably wouldn't be extremely hard, however LAV Video Decoder is focused on being a decoder, not a post-processor a this time.
Once the decoding functionality is finished (or at least closer to finished), this may change, right now i have no interest in accepting raw video, though.

Right now, you're probably better off using ffdshow as a post-processor.

PS:
While using YADIF would be possible, i'm not exactly sure if the CUDA deinterlacer can be fed with raw video - or if it can, how.

[madshi]

Unfortunately, not anymore. I used to have some when I developed the filter some time ago, but I lost them. If you can get your hand on some 1080i recordings of TV shows broadcast on CBS, you'll probably see some of this madness. I remember when I used CBS recordings of "The Unit" to test my filter, they made me completely redesign the entire thing just so it could handle such huge amounts of insanity.
That's too bad, would have helped my development. I do have a number of broadcasts some of which might be problematic. But it's kinda hard to find the problematic sequences.

I tried every single combination possible of settings
Try DScaler IVTC Mod. Or wait for a future madVR version.

[DragonQ]

Display adapters that can switch interlacing on/off quick enough.

NVIDIA

...
GeForce GT 430
...
Yay my GPU is on the list! On the other hand, I live in PAL-land so telecine isn't a problem anyway.

[nevcairiel]

I think i found a rather crude yet theoretically working solution for playback of those mixed soft-telecined / hard-telecined files with CUVID deinterlacing.

A soft-telecine stream typically looks like this:

rtStart: 0, diff: 0, key: 1, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 1
rtStart: 333667, diff: 333667, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 1
rtStart: 834222, diff: 500555, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 0
rtStart: 1167889, diff: 333667, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 0
rtStart: 1668333, diff: 500444, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 1
rtStart: 2002000, diff: 333667, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 1
rtStart: 2502556, diff: 500556, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 0
rtStart: 2836222, diff: 333666, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 0
rtStart: 3336667, diff: 500445, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 1
rtStart: 3670333, diff: 333666, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 1

The problem:
- Switching the deinterlacer on/off seems to cause performance issues
- The timestamps of soft-telecined material match a 60 fps stream, instead of 24p (not really a "bad" issue as long as the renderer will match to vsync anyway)
- Double-rate deinterlacing of soft-telecined material causes quite odd results (only the "interlaced: 1" frames above get doubled)

My idea:
- Detect soft-telecined (constant repeat 0/1 switching pattern)
- If detected:
--- Force deinterlacing of all frames, BUT, limit it to 25p/30p mode (no frame doubling) - this eliminates all combing, and doesnt require switching between interlaced/progressive
--- Delay frames with the repeat flag by one field, giving proper 24p timestamps (as an alternative, show frames without the repeat flag one field earlier)

The combination of those options would ensure that there is no combing because the full adaptive deinterlacer is being used, in addition, the timestamps should be smoothed out to ensure smooth playback, even with "stupid" renderers.

The only challenge is properly detecting the soft-telecine. Assuming the pattern is always constant, i could just activate it as soon as i find a repeat flag and turn it off again when there are 2-3 frames without a flag, but that will need investigation on different streams.

Thoughts?
Implementation would probably be somewhat simple.
Note: This mostly only applys to CUVID decoding and deinterlacing. Software decoding is another matter entirely, because i cannot control deinterlacing there.

[STaRGaZeR]

Quick question: all the filters settings are stored in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV, right?

[nevcairiel]

Quick question: all the filters settings are stored in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV, right?

Yes, they are.
People have been advocating for splitting x64 and x86, which would mean x86 would move to Software\Wow6432Node\LAV, but i'm still not sure if that will ever happen.

[STaRGaZeR]

Yes, they are.
People have been advocating for splitting x64 and x86, which would mean x86 would move to Software\Wow6432Node\LAV, but i'm still not sure if that will ever happen.

Gotcha. In that case why not put everything in Software/LAV like ffdshow does with Software/GNU? Makes life easier :p

[Shark007]

Yes, they are.
People have been advocating for splitting x64 and x86, which would mean x86 would move to Software\Wow6432Node\LAV, but i'm still not sure if that will ever happen.

I would suggest Software\LAV and Software\LAV64
making it simple to incorperate.

[Inspector.Gadget]

Hello nevcairiel.
I was using LAV Splitter 0.37 with nice results, and I updated to 0.42 and now seeking in mkv files has delays. It happens with all h264 files it seems.
I'm decoding audio with ffshow, and video with CoreAVC.

The one I tried is:
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1280x720 23.98fps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 384kbps [Audio]

LAV Splitter 0.37 + CoreAVC = Fast seeking
LAV Splitter 0.42 + CoreAVC = Sloppy seeking
LAV Splitter 0.42 + ffdshow video = Fast seeking
Haali Splitter + CoreAVC = Sloppy seeking

Maybe it's the new splitter?

Sorry if this was mentioned or known, but I read a couple pages back and nothing came up.

Thanks.

I can confirm a similar situation on all H.264-in-MKV content with the change from .39 to .41 or .42. The new parser seems to always behave as if "Fast seek (on keyframe)" is disabled in MPC-HC, while the old parser exhibited the expected behavior (instant but less precise seeking when that option was checked, precise but slightly slow/momentarily-out-of-sync seeking when unchecked). I use MPC-HC with all filters disabled, EVR-CP, LAV Splitter + Decoders, ffdshow audio processor to downmix. My computer is definitely capable of decoding complex high-def content in a reasonable time. I don't know for certain whether this is related to the "Fast seek (on keyframe)" option, but the fact that previous versions of LAV Filters were affected by that option, and the current version is not, is suggestive.

[Nevilne]

Can confirm the keyframe seeking situation with PotPlayer as well.

[nevcairiel]

What am i doing right with my system that seeking is fast, no matter what? :D
Anyway, the so-called key-frame seeking is kind of broken by design. The Matroska Index it uses only applys to the video stream, however not to audio or subtitles. So to ensure that audio and subtitles can start immediately after the seek as well, it may happen that it seeks shortly before the requested point.

I can try to turn that off if the requested time matches a index entry exactly, i suppose. Edit: So i did.

[XadoX]

Since I am using LAV splitter for watching my mkv files in MediaPortal the files are stuttering in the first secons. With haali splitter there was no stuttering.

[Chillgurke]

Hi Nev,

i have one small problem with LAV Audio. I´m using Mediaportal for Video and TV. I only have this problem by SKY HD Channels.

Watch LIVE TV ( SKY SPORT HD f.e. / Football ) --- normal sound volume
SKY switch to advertisement --- normal sound volume
SKY switch back to the Game --- low sound volume

I have to stop LIVE TV and rebuild the Graph. After this i have normal sound volume.

What i thing is, that during the Advertisment SKY changes the Audio format ( Dolby --> MPEG --> Dolby ). During this LAV seems to have a problem. At this moment i have no sample or exact plan what could couse this.

Please give me an hint, how to search this problem. What do you need ? Sample file ?

[nevcairiel]

LAV Audio has no concept of volume, it does not adjust it or do anything else of the kind.
Its quite possible that whatever filters come after LAV Audio (maybe a mixer or something like that) get confused by a channel switch (2.0 -> 5.1 -> 2.0, or maybe 5.1 -> 2.0 -> 5.1), and therefor adjust their processing to compensate, but don't adjust it back on the second switch.

If thats the case, the only viable option is to wait until i implement a mixer in LAV Audio, so you don't need to rely on any other filter.
Its impossible to know for sure what causes this, without access to such a system, though.

[Chillgurke]

I think you are living just right of me ;) .... so you cloud get access to this device :D

[nevcairiel]

Since I am using LAV splitter for watching my mkv files in MediaPortal the files are stuttering in the first secons. With haali splitter there was no stuttering.

What kind of CPU do you have?
Possibly a somewhat slower model, only Dual-Core, or so?

It may be running very close to a limit there, causing the queue filling at playback start to haven an impact on playback.

[XadoX]

What kind of CPU do you have?...

AMD Brazos - Dual-Core Processor E350/E350D with an Integrated AMD Radeon HD 6310.

[kasper93]

nsv stream does not work in MPC-HC with LAV splitter. For example this one: http://antywawamp3-02.eurozet.pl:8600/;stream.nsv It works fine with internal splitter.