LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[nevcairiel]

Yeah, but nothing on DTS-HD MA, which apparently handles LFE differently than the other modes. I guess that's why we still don't have an open source DTS-HD MA decoder.

There is stuff in there about the XLL extension, which really is all that DTS-HD MA is about. MA or HRA are just marketing names for the different DTS-HD extensions, with MA being XLL for lossless, and HRA usually a combination of XBR, (X)XCH, X96.
It might be possible to implement it from this, last i heard, just no-one bothered to do it because its not a trivial task. FFmpeg supports XBR and XXCH at least from the DTS-HD HRA extension set.

[tzr916]

Probably not so easily, no.
I don't think you can change much about the TV playback chain in WMC, so not much you can do there sadly.
Ya, I been down that road. Shark07 lets you do it but there's too many side effects- audio sync, stutter, crashing, no copy flagged channels/content.

Happy to say that I have re-tested v59.1 on the HTPC and it is working fine. Sorry for the false alarm :thanks:

[bitcores]

Recently upgraded to 0.59.1 and it has started causing Explorer to crash quite frequently (I have it set so that LAV provides thumbnails for mkv). Dropped back to 0.58.2 which seems to be fine. Running Windows 7 64bit, so the 64bit filters are being used for this, and here is the problem details from the Reliability Monitor, if it helps at all.
Source
Windows Explorer

Summary
Stopped working

Date
‎19/‎11/‎2013 00:11

Status
Not reported

Description
Faulting Application Path: C:\Windows\explorer.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: explorer.exe
Application Version: 6.1.7601.17567
Application Timestamp: 4d672ee4
Fault Module Name: LAVVideo.ax
Fault Module Version: 0.59.1.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 527805e3
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00000000000020b6
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 5129
Additional Information 1: c160
Additional Information 2: c160cbddac89c1720f8b8aa4500ca794
Additional Information 3: 4d1e
Additional Information 4: 4d1e0aa01d642f0fdb3c50a17abade74

[nevcairiel]

Recently upgraded to 0.59.1 and it has started causing Explorer to crash quite frequently (I have it set so that LAV provides thumbnails for mkv). Dropped back to 0.58.2 which seems to be fine. Running Windows 7 64bit, so the 64bit filters are being used for this, and here is the problem details from the Reliability Monitor, if it helps at all.


Can you provide some more information?

Which tool do you use for integrating LAV into explorer? Since LAV alone cannot do it.

Does it happen on a specific file? Just any files?

[STaRGaZeR]

I have toyed with the idea before to try to detect soft-TC and just drop the telecine flags, to avoid such confusions on the renderers side, but its sadly not as simple as that.

ffdshow has an option like this and it worked really good last time I used it. It's called "Detect soft telecine and average frame durations", under the "Decoder options" tab.

[bitcores]

Can you provide some more information?

Which tool do you use for integrating LAV into explorer? Since LAV alone cannot do it.

Does it happen on a specific file? Just any files?

The tool I used in Codec Tweak Tool, it has been a while since I did it (the tweak persists through updates so you don't have to redo it) but I believe it was just changing the source filter for .MKV to LAV Splitter and then in the thumbnail settings checking the Matrosaka boxes.

There doesn't seem to be specific files it occurs on, the only files I am testing it on are MKV with h.264 8bit or 10bit. The first time it occurred I was sorting the files into relative directories but I seem to be able to force it by quickly clicking between files so it could have something to do with receiving too many requests before it fulfills the first one, I am not sure.

This is the error box it throws up before explorer crashes, but it doesn't look helpful.
http://i.imgur.com/qCHQuLV.png

[omarank]

That sample does not show the bug I just fixed.

One thing i noticed is that this stream seem to have high individual channel volume, so when you downmix to stereo, especially with LFE at such a high level, it'll cause the audio to clip, or LAVs clipping protection to engage. After stereo downmix the overall volume spiked to over 250% without clipping protection (without LFE its "only" at 160%)

Your issue seems completely unrelated. The issue in question would only cause that some audio blocks would be missing, and/or could be corrupted during playback. Missing blocks can cause a small gap in the audio which can produce an audible glitch when LAV corrects A/V sync.

I don't see how your thing is related at all. Quite possibly your low-pass mitigated the audible glitch somehow.

I enable clipping protection in LAV, when I let it do mixing. Normally I use JRiver MC for any audio processing, and clip protection is enabled by default in its DSP. I thought that clip protection will take care of any possibility of clipping.

JRiver adds 10 dB boost to LFE before downmixing to stereo, and the equivalent level of LFE mix in LAV audio is 2.24. So, it's not a very high level and is as per one of the standards. Now, if there is no issue in the file except for the high average volume level in all channels, I think there should be some way of playing it without applying any low pass filter to LFE such that there are no audible glitches. Can you suggest something?

[nevcairiel]

I think there should be some way of playing it without applying any low pass filter to LFE such that there are no audible glitches. Can you suggest something?

I hear no glitches in that sample, or see any evidence of any problems actually.

Note that 2.24 is too high, because volume behaves differently for LFE. It was explained earlier here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1612036

Even listening with headphones, its extremely bass heavy on LAVs downmix with a 2.24 factor.

The tool I used in Codec Tweak Tool, it has been a while since I did it (the tweak persists through updates so you don't have to redo it) but I believe it was just changing the source filter for .MKV to LAV Splitter and then in the thumbnail settings checking the Matrosaka boxes

Did you install the full K-Lite codec pack? I believe it includes additional components that makes this work.

[bitcores]

Did you install the full K-Lite codec pack? I believe it includes additional components that makes this work.

No, all my player components are installed separately.

[nevcairiel]

The Codec Tweak Tool has the Thumbnail option disabled for me, so something must be missing that makes this work.
Maybe you installed the Icaros tool, or something like that?

If i can't replicate your setup, trying to figure out where it crashes might end up hard.

[bitcores]

The Codec Tweak Tool has the Thumbnail option disabled for me, so something must be missing that makes this work.
Maybe you installed the Icaros tool, or something like that?

If i can't replicate your setup, trying to figure out where it crashes might end up hard.

Which Windows are you running? I found the button greyed out on my Windows 8 laptop but on my Windows 7 desktop it isn't disabled.

I am positive I didn't use the Icaros tool to install it, it appears that Icaros now comes with avcodec to do thumbnail generation, with the way it is set up on my Windows 7 PC you can see in Process Hacker that LAVSplitter.ax and LAVVideo.ax are loaded as modules by explorer.exe for the thumbnail generation.

[nevcairiel]

Which Windows are you running? I found the button greyed out on my Windows 8 laptop but on my Windows 7 desktop it isn't disabled.

I am positive I didn't use the Icaros tool to install it, it appears that Icaros now comes with avcodec to do thumbnail generation, with the way it is set up on my Windows 7 PC you can see in Process Hacker that LAVSplitter.ax and LAVVideo.ax are loaded as modules by explorer.exe for the thumbnail generation.

This was on Windows 8.1 actually, i guess its possible that its disabled here. I still have a 7 box for testing at home, I'll try there.

And yeah, i noticed that recent version of Icaros don't use DirectShow anymore. Oh well.

[Sarasa]

I have the same problem with 0.59.1 & 0.59, if MKV and/or FLV thumbnail is active Explorer crash

With the 0.58.2 version, explorer don't crash

[Carpo]

Which Windows are you running? I found the button greyed out on my Windows 8 laptop but on my Windows 7 desktop it isn't disabled.

I am positive I didn't use the Icaros tool to install it, it appears that Icaros now comes with avcodec to do thumbnail generation, with the way it is set up on my Windows 7 PC you can see in Process Hacker that LAVSplitter.ax and LAVVideo.ax are loaded as modules by explorer.exe for the thumbnail generation.

You will require icaros thumb nailer in order for the option to appear in The Codec Tweak Tool


http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Icaros

I have had to use this on Windows 7 8 and 8.1 in order to get thumbnails, as it uses its own version of ffmpeg/Lav to make the thumbs

[clsid]

He is using the old legacy MS thumbnailer. Here is a reg tweak for it:Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.flv\ShellEx\{BB2E617C-0920-11D1-9A0B-00C04FC2D6C1}]
@="{c5a40261-cd64-4ccf-84cb-c394da41d590}"

Icaros works much better. That uses FFmpeg directly and does not depend on DirectShow.

[ThurstonX]

I hope you don't mind a fairly OT question, but you're the smartest guys in the room, and this is my last hope for an answer. I've been reading the posts a couple pages back about soft telecine, and mixed soft and hard sources. For TV I have Comcast into a Ceton InfiniTV 4 (and thus WMC; 64-bit Win7), with a Radeon HD 5670 (1 GB GDDR 5, passive). Playback is generally flawless, but with a lot of HD premium channel movies the following happens:

Movie plays for a few minutes, then WMC appears to crash, the desktop appears, then 1-2 seconds later, WMC resumes at the point in the movie where it "crashed." With movies that exhibit this problem, it continues, and usually WMC will crash completely, if I let the movie run.

I've never seen this on any other HD channel (99.9% of what I watch). Is it possible that the 5670 set to "Use automatic setting" for deinterlacing ("Vector adaptive" appears below the slider, so I assume that's preferred, if possible), plus checking the "Pulldown Detection" option, is causing this? No other "Video Quality" options are checked, and the only other option that might be relevant is "Enforce Smooth Video Playback" under Global Video Quality.

If it's a driver issue, not much I can do. I run the latest beta, generally. Any point in uninstalling all other video-related apps (MPC-HC, LAV, madVR, reClock)? I don't really use them on that PC. Too bad it's not possible to use LAV + madVR for TV watching :D

It's really the strangest problem. Thanks for indulging, and for any answers. No need to clog the thread, unless it's somehow related. PM me, as you see fit.

Cheers.

[clsid]

Go to the Event Viewer in the Windows Control Panel. See if there is an entry in the application log for the crash. The "faulting module" tells you in which component the crash occurred.

[nevcairiel]

Recently upgraded to 0.59.1 and it has started causing Explorer to crash quite frequently (I have it set so that LAV provides thumbnails for mkv).

I have the same problem with 0.59.1 & 0.59, if MKV and/or FLV thumbnail is active Explorer crash


I may have an idea why it crashed.
Can you test with this version? Just replace the files from 0.59.1

32-bit: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.59.1-32-gfd21671.zip
64-bit: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.59.1-32-gfd21671-x64.zip

Let me know if it helps!

[Sarasa]

sorry... seem it was my connection...

Zip downloaded

MKV Thumbnail no more crash

FLV Thumbnail no more crash

[nevcairiel]

It helps if you actually upload the files instead of just creating them. :cool:

Should work now.

[bitcores]

I may have an idea why it crashed.
Can you test with this version? Just replace the files from 0.59.1

32-bit: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.59.1-32-gfd21671.zip
64-bit: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.59.1-32-gfd21671-x64.zip

Let me know if it helps!

This seems to have fixed the crash for me as well.

[Sarasa]

lol, my connection had hiccup at that moment too, thought it was my fault :D


Tested doing thumbnail with every video test I have MP4, FLV, MKV, MPG, AVI, WMV

and it doesn't crash anymore :thanks:

[ThurstonX]

Go to the Event Viewer in the Windows Control Panel. See if there is an entry in the application log for the crash. The "faulting module" tells you in which component the crash occurred.

Thanks! If it happens again, I'll be sure to check it.

nev, thanks for allowing the OT post. I won't clutter the thread in the future.

[e-t172]

JRiver adds 10 dB boost to LFE before downmixing to stereo, and the equivalent level of LFE mix in LAV audio is 2.24

Not quite. LFE should be 10 dB louder than any of the main channels (as per BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775/)). When downmixing to stereo, the correct way to do this is to add +10dB, and then -6dB because the signal is played on both speakers. The result is +4dB = 1.59. If you use 2.24 (+10dB) you will actually end up with +16dB instead of +10dB because it's produced on two channels instead of one. As a result, the LFE channel will be much louder than it should be.

[omarank]

Not quite. LFE should be 10 dB louder than any of the main channels (as per BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775/)). When downmixing to stereo, the correct way to do this is to add +10dB, and then -6dB because the signal is played on both speakers. The result is +4dB = 1.59. If you use 2.24 (+10dB) you will actually end up with +16dB instead of +10dB because it's produced on two channels instead of one. As a result, the LFE channel will be much louder than it should be.

Yes, Nevcairiel in his reply above gave a link to an earlier post of yours where you explained this really well. Now I add 4 dB boost to LFE before adding it to L and R (I did some calculations and found that LFE Mix Level should actually be 1.5811, which corresponds to about 3.98 dB).

As you explained in that post that the low frequencies add up coherently and higher frequencies add up incoherently, I was thinking that while adding the center channel to L and R, we should not just lower it by 3 dB; instead we should also apply a low shelf filter which lowers the low frequencies of the center channel further by 3 dB, so that there is a net drop of 6 dB in the low frequencies and 3dB in the high frequencies of the center channel. Now when we add the center channel to L and R, all the frequencies should add up to about 0 dB. What do you say?

[Kurtnoise]

@Nev : I didn't look at the code but does the vp9 decoder support both profiles (http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=webm/libvpx.git;a=blobdiff;f=vp9/encoder/vp9_bitstream.c;h=aea9fb6b17dea67529b08e37e4a03cfae6754652;hp=9e0713ad31f3c04a93be55632e32cd3fbea1866f;hb=229f9a5f0942a7902bceb0d6a4149e17c9293447;hpb=8c6bff6c0c819b68c8d24c82b0935e79924f063d) or only the 1st one ?

[nevcairiel]

Only profile 0 is official and stable, the VP9 decoder only supports that. Profile 1 is still changing, last i heard, and the bitstream is not stable yet.

[Kurtnoise]

ok, thank you.

[STaRGaZeR]

Nev, I just noticed an issue present at least since 0.57, v0.56.2 is unaffected.

Sample: http://www.mediafire.com/?gh61pf1mje7feky

0.57:

http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/29004/711c3f290036698.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/711c3f290036698)

0.59:

http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/29004/dc960d290036710.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/dc960d290036710)

The stutter changes between versions, but it's always there. v0.56.2 doesn't have any stutter. Notice how they are located just after scene changes, most likely I(DR) frames. Source is european Star Wars BD release.

[nevcairiel]

The stutter changes between versions, but it's always there. v0.56.2 doesn't have any stutter. Notice how they are located just after scene changes, most likely I(DR) frames. Source is european Star Wars BD release.

For some reason the ffmpeg decoder does a self re-init there, as if stream parameters change.
I'll have to dig deeper which settings it thinks actually change. On a first glance it seems to switch to an interlaced coding mode, somehow.

Edit:
It seems i was right, it claims that this one IDR there is interlaced coded, must be broken SEI messages in the stream.
The one interlaced frame makes it reconnect the renderer in interlaced mode, which makes it hiccup slightly.

Not sure it can be fixed really, ffmpeg says there is a picture timing SEI that says interlaced.
Without looking at the stats graph, i was unable to see any issues anyway.

I'll see if i can reproduce the difference in different ffmpeg versions and try to find out when it occured.

[nevcairiel]

For the record, I dont think there would be any glitch with madVR, EVR suffers from this, but what is LAV to do. It doesn't know if the new parameters are important for playback or just a fluke or not important.

[STaRGaZeR]

Thanks for looking into it. I find stange that the original stream has that SEI information, sounds super weird, even more so when older versions of FFmpeg apparently didn't find it.

I did notice the hiccup when watching the movie, then confirmed it with the graph. Happens at least 3 times in that sample. Funny stuff, the video just freezes up after each hiccup if you let the sample loop endlessly in MPC-HC.

[e-t172]

As you explained in that post that the low frequencies add up coherently and higher frequencies add up incoherently, I was thinking that while adding the center channel to L and R, we should not just lower it by 3 dB; instead we should also apply a low shelf filter which lowers the low frequencies of the center channel further by 3 dB, so that there is a net drop of 6 dB in the low frequencies and 3dB in the high frequencies of the center channel. Now when we add the center channel to L and R, all the frequencies should add up to about 0 dB. What do you say?

That's theoretically correct. In practice however, the characteristics of the acoustic sum of both channels (i.e. whether it's +6dB, +3dB, or in a transition band) are extremely dependent on installation-specific factors (speaker polar response, room reflections, speaker distance, etc.) so trying to come up with even a remotely accurate compensation filter is doomed to fail. I find it preferable to just follow the ITU recommendation and just use +3dB, at least this way it's standardized and the material is (hopefully) tested for this configuration.

That being said, it's not a bad idea. I might try it some time, I have measurements so I know how to shape the filter.

[Strato]

It seems i was right, it claims that this one IDR there is interlaced coded, must be broken SEI messages in the stream.
The one interlaced frame makes it reconnect the renderer in interlaced mode, which makes it hiccup slightly.

Not sure it can be fixed really, ffmpeg says there is a picture timing SEI that says interlaced.
.

This is a standard trick to reduce the byte size of an I/IDR frame. You code the top field as an I (Intra), and the bottom field as P, predicted from the preceding I. The P field will usually be quite small.

[junh1024]

RE: downmixing to 2ch, -3dB for center into L & R is correct.

For LFE downmixing into L&R (stereo),I suggest not including it at all. Since:

- boosting by whatever dB could lead to clipping
- there should be something equivalent in L&R (if they're doing it right, and if they're doing it wrong by lowpassing the L&R into LFE)
- possible phase issues may arise if downmixing LFE into L&R since the LFE may be lowpassed by IIR (not FIR) filters

[e-t172]

- boosting by whatever dB could lead to clipping

Well, yeah. Any downmixing can lead to clipping if you don't normalize. Nothing new under the sun.

- there should be something equivalent in L&R (if they're doing it right, and if they're doing it wrong by lowpassing the L&R into LFE)

That's mostly right, but why pass on the extra low frequency effects if your system can handle the additional bass output? LFE exists for a reason.

- possible phase issues may arise if downmixing LFE into L&R since the LFE may be lowpassed by IIR (not FIR) filters

No. Not unless someone screwed badly during production. It would create issues in all bass-managed systems (not just downmixing) because it would interfere with summing on the subwoofer output. LFE and L/R are supposed to be incoherent, and they're not, well, that's a problem with the source, not the system.

The real reason why you wouldn't want to downmix LFE is if your system is not good at handling loud bass content (most stereo systems are in this category). If you downmix LFE in this case you are likely to end up with considerable distortion because of overloading the speakers. You don't want that.

[NAFANJA]

Hi need help, i have megui, avisynth 5.8, k-lite codec pack mega pack, when i create avs script with mkv file with subtitle (embded, forced) and encoder it with megui, subtitle don't add to video. If right click on Lav Splitter tray icon subtitle is check, also if play avs script in MPC-HC subtitle don't load? but if start only source video in MPC-HC subtitle load good, where is problem?

Script
DirectShowSource("D:\Anime\ep1.mkv",23.976,convertfps=true).ResampleAudio(44100)

If add plugin Vsfilter - .TextSub() subtitle show and work correctly, but i need that embded sub in mkv work good too.

[vosya]

f4679f3 - the latest version, which works for me with RGB32 output to Overlay Mixer in Windows XP SP3+. Playback in Daum PotPlayer with the newest versions of LAV Filters shows a black screen only.

[nevcairiel]

f4679f3 - the latest version, which works for me with RGB32 output to Overlay Mixer in Windows XP SP3+. Playback in Daum PotPlayer with the newest versions of LAV Filters shows a black screen only.

Should hopefully be fixed again.

[michkrol]

Hi need help, i have megui, avisynth 5.8, k-lite codec pack mega pack, when i create avs script with mkv file with subtitle (embded, forced) and encoder it with megui, subtitle don't add to video. If right click on Lav Splitter tray icon subtitle is check, also if play avs script in MPC-HC subtitle don't load? but if start only source video in MPC-HC subtitle load good, where is problem?

Script
DirectShowSource("D:\Anime\ep1.mkv",23.976,convertfps=true).ResampleAudio(44100)

If add plugin Vsfilter - .TextSub() subtitle show and work correctly, but i need that embded sub in mkv work good too.

Not sure I understand correctly, but you probably need to encode the video and audio with MeGUI and later add subs with MKVToolNix (mkvmergeGUI) to the resulting *.mkv file. Google has thousands of tutorials for transcoding videos and remuxing files to *.mkv adding subs.
Please note this has nothing to do with LAVFilters whatsoever, so creating a separate thread would be desirable.

[NAFANJA]

Not sure I understand correctly, but you probably need to encode the video and audio with MeGUI and later add subs with MKVToolNix (mkvmergeGUI) to the resulting *.mkv file. Google has thousands of tutorials for transcoding videos and remuxing files to *.mkv adding subs.
Please note this has nothing to do with LAVFilters whatsoever, so creating a separate thread would be desirable.

I need creat from soft sub hard sub, to watch vidoe with subs on other device.

[Raylan Givens]

Mate, did you start building LAV with MSVC 2013 like MPC-HC? If not, do you intend to?

Incidentally, I was wondering -kinda irrelevant- if both are built with MSVC 2013, do we need the redistributables or they're included in the packages or we don't need 'em at all?

Just in case and for your information, there's now 2012 update 4 and the new 2013 redistributables:

http://i4.minus.com/ibpJyplFnmltM0.png

[turbojet]

Is 64 bit mpeg2's avcodec not multithreaded in 59.1? Getting really low cpu usage.

[nevcairiel]

Mate, did you start building LAV with MSVC 2013 like MPC-HC? If not, do you intend to?

I used it for testing occasionally, i may switch to it for the next release, not decided yet. 0.59.1 is built with VS2012 U4.


Incidentally, I was wondering -kinda irrelevant- if both are built with MSVC 2013, do we need the redistributables or they're included in the packages or we don't need 'em at all?

You never need to install any redistributable runtime for LAV Filters, they are statically included in the LAV build.

Is 64 bit mpeg2's avcodec not multithreaded in 59.1? Getting really low cpu usage.

MT is sadly a bit broken in 64-bit 0.59.1, due to a problem in the pthreads library used for the build. I already corrected the issue in my build environment, so that future builds should be working properly again.
32-bit is fine though.

[wanezhiling]

Hi nev would you add wmvp/wvp2 support?
http://url.cn/MuKngw
http://url.cn/VaOmdL

[clsid]

Has the pthread issue already been fixed in your 2013-11-18 build of mingw? Was the older 4.7.3 build affected as well?

[nevcairiel]

Has the pthread issue already been fixed in your 2013-11-18 build of mingw? Was the older 4.7.3 build affected as well?

Only my first 4.8.2 package suffered from the issue, which i've taken down and replaced with a new version (r10). The fix is also noted in the changelog at http://files.1f0.de/mingw/

[nevcairiel]

Hi nev would you add wmvp/wvp2 support?
http://url.cn/MuKngw
http://url.cn/VaOmdL

Done.

[turbojet]

MT is sadly a bit broken in 64-bit 0.59.1, due to a problem in the pthreads library used for the build. I already corrected the issue in my build environment, so that future builds should be working properly again.
32-bit is fine though.

Thanks, I'll have to remember that next time I test avisynth x64

[Aleksoid1978]

nevcairiel
Hi. I try open .MKV file use LAVSplitter, that partially (~12%) downloaded from torrent.
Torrent download is configured to continuously since the beginning of the file(see a screen)
http://i.imgur.com/AvoXB7X.png

Try to seek before 12% of file(when data is exists) :)
P.S. MPC-BE seek is ok.

http://aleksoid.voserver.net/Sample/MKV/Partially/daa-x264fall-1080p.rar