LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[the_weirdo]

ok but how do I know if inbuilt LAV is active in mpc-hc or one of their own internal codecs? what are the rules of priority here?

You can tell internal filters or external filters are being used by looking at Filters list, internal filters have "(internal)" suffix in their name.

From what I see, it seems MPC-HC will use internal filters if they're enabled, unless external filters are set as prefer in External Filters options (EDIT: it seems this is not always true). If internal filters are disabled then MPC-HC will use external filters.

[michkrol]

ok but how do I know if inbuilt LAV is active in mpc-hc or one of their own internal codecs? what are the rules of priority here?

With version 1.7.0, MPC-HC has old internal filters replaced with LAVFilters.

To my understanding priority goes like that:
- priorities set in external filters in options
- if internal filters are enabled, use them
- use external filters
- if no external filters are available for this file, use internal version of LAVFilters

You can view filters used by right clicking on video and selecting Filters sub-menu. The LAVFilters are indicated by (internal), if internal version is used.

[Thunderbolt8]

does decoding DTS-HD MA still work with the internal LAV filters? I guess I need the 32-bit version of MPC-HC then and drop the dtsdecode.dll in the LAVFilters subdirectory?

[Boltron]

I suspect it might be better to drop dtsdecoderdll.dll into SysWOW64 to ensure it's found.

[dansrfe]

I dropped it into the x86 directory in LAVFilters and LAV found it.

[jmone]

Either folder works

[Lich King]

Either folder works

Yeah, sure it works.. does it have x64 version..??

[mindbomb]

if you select intel quicksync in lav video, is hardware acceleration for dvds checked by default?
cause, afaik, quicksync doesnt work properly with dvd video.

[jkauff]

if you select intel quicksync in lav video, is hardware acceleration for dvds checked by default?
cause, afaik, quicksync doesnt work properly with dvd video.
I generally use software decoding in LAV, but I use QS occasionally and I don't remember ever having a problem with DVD files or discs. Can you be more specific?

[mindbomb]

idk, someone told me their dvd was stuttering a lot when they were using quicksync as opposed to copyback, and also, the quicksync decoder thread states dvd playback isnt working.

[ryrynz]

DVD playback with quicksync is not supported, not enabled by default and yes it stutters. Use software decoding.

[jkauff]

DVD playback with quicksync is not supported, not enabled by default and yes it stutters. Use software decoding.
Well, not for me. I have DVD enabled and get no stuttering playing either from disc or from my hard drive. I have an IB HD4000. Maybe it's system-dependent?

I don't know about it not being supported.

This is all in latest nightly of MPC-HC, BTW.

[ryrynz]

Well, not for me. I have DVD enabled and get no stuttering playing either from disc or from my hard drive. I have an IB HD4000. Maybe it's system-dependent?

I don't know about it not being supported.

This is all in latest nightly of MPC-HC, BTW.

I have an HD 4000 also, if it works for you then great..
The author of the Quicksync decoder Eric Gur isn't interested in looking into why this occurs (I've asked him) He has said it's not supported.
Use at your own risk.

[THX-UltraII]

I'm using LAV filters with MPC-BE. I want to use only external subtitles for my movies because that way I can change the position of the subtitles if I am correct.

I play mostly Blu-Ray folder (BDMV/CERTIFICATE) movies. I can manually add a .srt by dragging and dropping that .srt to the MPC-BE window of the movie that is playing. But I m wondering if there is a way to automatically load external subtitles (.srt) when the movie starts running.

[jkauff]

I have an HD 4000 also, if it works for you then great..
The author of the Quicksync decoder Eric Gur isn't interested in looking into why this occurs (I've asked him) He has said it's not supported.
Use at your own risk.
If Eric says it's not supported, that's good enough for me. I don't normally use it anyway, I only use QS decoding when I want to watch a movie and Handbrake is eating up all my CPU resources doing an encode.

[Cheesegeezer]

A feature request If I may.

Could you implement resampling of audio upto AC3 5.1, similar to the way FFDshow does this?

Many Thanks

[kypec]

A feature request If I may.

Could you implement resampling of audio upto AC3 5.1, similar to the way FFDshow does this?

Many Thanks

You're confusing resampling (change of sampling frequency e.g. 44.1kHz -> 48kHz) with reencoding (change of audio format e.g. DTS 5.1 -> DD alias AC3 5.1).

[michkrol]

A feature request If I may.

Could you implement resampling of audio upto AC3 5.1, similar to the way FFDshow does this?

Many Thanks

As mentioned by kypec, you want re-encoding, possibly with up-mixing (stereo to 5.1, for example).
The developer is on a well deserved break right now (post), so don't expect any answer soon (check back in 2-3 weeks?).

[somy]

Hi,

I have a question regarding how LAV audio decoder fallback to decode HD audio track when it's configured to passthrough them to AVR. In my setup I have both a HDMI connection to AVR and a pair of analogue PC speakers. The passthrough of all audio formats to AVR works perfectly fine, however I experience different behaviours when I play videos in different containers with HD audio tracks using my PC speakers:

MKV files containing HD audio track seems to fallback to SW decoding mode and output sound to my analogue speakers without any problem.
TS and M2TS containing HD audio track doesn't produce any sound. In MPC-HC it says it cannot connect to next pin (don't know what it means though).


When LAVF is configured to passthrough and only analogue speakers are connected, why for MKV it outputs sound but not TS/M2TS?
Any help is appreciated!

[Qaq]

TS and M2TS containing HD audio track doesn't produce any sound. In MPC-HC it says it cannot connect to next pin (don't know what it means though).
Perhaps different source filter (not LAV) is used.
1. go MPC - Internal Filters and make sure TS and M2TS sourse filters are disabled.
2. add LAV Splitter in External filters, set Prefer.
3. click on LAV Splitter, make sure TS and M2TS are enabled.
4. start some TS and M2TS, make sure LAV Splitter is used (MPC - Filters).

[somy]

Perhaps different source filter (not LAV) is used.
1. go MPC - Internal Filters and make sure TS and M2TS sourse filters are disabled.
2. add LAV Splitter in External filters, set Prefer.
3. click on LAV Splitter, make sure TS and M2TS are enabled.
4. start some TS and M2TS, make sure LAV Splitter is used (MPC - Filters).

Hi,
Thanks for the help!
I'm pretty sure LAV splitter is used. I can reproduce it in MediaPortal, and I can see the LAV splitter icon in the system tray during the playback.
Occasionally I got an error msg saying FFMpeg is crashed, and MePo is crashed afterwards. In other cases the TS files is just played without sound.

[hoborg]

Hi,
Thanks for the help!
I'm pretty sure LAV splitter is used. I can reproduce it in MediaPortal, and I can see the LAV splitter icon in the system tray during the playback.
Occasionally I got an error msg saying FFMpeg is crashed, and MePo is crashed afterwards. In other cases the TS files is just played without sound.

Hi.
MePo using its own TS splitter for TS files. You cannot disable it. But you can rename *.TS file to *.M2TS.

Good way for testing filters is to use GraphStudioNext.

[somy]

Hi.
MePo using its own TS splitter for TS files. You cannot disable it. But you can rename *.TS file to *.M2TS.

Good way for testing filters is to use GraphStudioNext.
Thank you for your input!
The newer versions (1.4.0+) support other source filters than the default TSReader for local TS files, I found it yesterday actually. Please see the WIKI below:
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_MEDIAPORTAL_1/0_What's_New/1.4.x/2_Config_Tool_Changes/Video_codecs_for_.ts_playback_in_Videos

Anyways, I have tried to change to file forth and back between .ts and .m2ts, it gives me the same issue (no analogue sound when passthrough is configured). It is a rather a large file, is there any way I can make a sample of the file and upload here?

[Venom_IL]

The installer prompts me to select the following:
LAV splitter
LAV Audio
LAV Video

I am assuming I need all three to enjoy playback of all video types ?

Also, there are both x86 and x64 versions to each, do I need both?

I'm running Windows 8.1 Enterprise (x64)

Thanks :o

[Asmodian]

LAV splitter handles containers, such as AVI, MP4, MKV
LAV audio handles audio, such as MP3, AC3, DTS
LAV video handles video, such as MPEG2, VC1, H.264

You need a splitter that can handle your container, an audio decoder that can handle your audio, and a video decoder that can handle your video. You do not need to use LAV for all three if you have a preferred filter to handle any of them. It is recommended to use LAV for all three.

You do not need both 32 and 64 bit versions but you might as well install both, 32 bit is used by 32 bit players (almost all) and 64 bit by 64 bit players (rare).

[Venom_IL]

@Asmodian - Thank you so much for the great explanation! :)

[prijatelj.v]

if using LAV Filters (including LAV Splitter,LAV Video and LAV Audio) full 32 + 64 bit. is there a need haali splitter for Windows 8.1 (64 bit.).
What else is needed to WMP 12 retired srt subtitles - (VobSub 2.23 or other) ?

Also,I was wondering what kind of cooperation (compatibility) LAV Filters for Subtitle Workshop (6.0), Virtual Dub and MeGUI with regard to ffdshow + haali splitter ?

[sneaker_ger]

LAV does not feature VfW, so it cannot be used by VirtualDub in the same way ffdshow can. It shouldn't make much if any difference for MeGUI which only uses DirectShow and even that only as a fallback AFAIK. I don't know about Subtitle Workshop.

If you want to use it in WMP you may need to override the windows filters because it does not feature the same hack Haali uses. (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Preferred-Filter-Tweaker)
For subtitle rendering I'd recommend the xy-vsfilter fork (http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/).

[prijatelj.v]

thanks for your advice and suggestions...

[Raylan Givens]

You're confusing resampling (change of sampling frequency e.g. 44.1kHz -> 48kHz) with reencoding (change of audio format e.g. DTS 5.1 -> DD alias AC3 5.1).

MPC HC 1.68 has the best 5.1 upmix... It does exactly what Flash do now. It gives you uniform 5.1 sound coming from all speakers. I consider this generally the best method, since stupid 5.1 effect like Pro Logic II for instance, giving talking only from the Centre Speaker and effects from all other ain't the best...

Will LAV do the same later? Is it broken or something currently? I can't get any 5.1. Fortunately I can downmix native 5.1 to Stereo in order to let the sound chip do the mix.

[e-t172]

MPC HC 1.68 has the best 5.1 upmix... It does exactly what Flash do now. It gives you uniform 5.1 sound coming from all speakers. I consider this generally the best method

…as long as you don't care about accuracy, that is. Stereo was never meant to be played back over rear speakers. It's also against current standards such as ITU-R BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775/) which explicitly forbids it (§2.1: "When there is no surround signal in a programme, surround loudspeakers should not be activated."). The proper way to play back stereo is to play back stereo. Doing it any other way is shooting yourself in the foot.

The fact that Flash does it without providing any means of disabling this stupid behavior is especially annoying (https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3289908) and that's the reason why I had to create an ugly hack (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4SHVPm2DfK5OHo3Z29SSWJycWc/edit?usp=sharing) to force Flash to output stereo correctly.

since stupid 5.1 effect like Pro Logic II for instance, giving talking only from the Centre Speaker and effects from all other ain't the best...

That's nonetheless better than a simple upmix, since that's how 5.1 movies are usually mixed.

Will LAV do the same later? Is it broken or something currently? I can't get any 5.1. Fortunately I can downmix native 5.1 to Stereo in order to let the sound chip do the mix.

Wait... so if I understand this sentence correctly, you're downmixing native 5.1 to stereo and then re-upmix it to 5.1? Really?

[mbordas]

since mpc-hc 1.7.0 now uses LAVFilters, I removed the standalone version. But now reclock no longer reports bit exact when using wasapi exclusive with a lossless audio track? (yes I moved dtsdecoderdll to the LAVFilters directory under mpc-hc)

Can anybody confirm?

[Raylan Givens]

Wait... so if I understand this sentence correctly, you're downmixing native 5.1 to stereo and then re-upmix it to 5.1? Really?

Yes, I donwmix native 5.1 to stereo, but actually I don't re-upmix to 5.1. It's simple copy, like Stereo x2 but includes the center speaker ( CMSS3d Surround 50% ).

Even the Microsoft's 'Speaker Fill' for Realtek's chip does better job, because it produces talking from Center, FL and FR, not just center. My 5.1 setup ain't the best out there and I live in a flat. I can't get the full experience and in high volume. So by doing so at least I get better, kinda more full sound than just hearing 90% of the time only the center speaker playing. Some times when I have an action movie with 24bit DTS sound, I let it in native 5.1 form.

Take an example... Currently I'm watching House MD and it's 12 o'clock midnight... What good can do if I let it in native 5.1?

[e-t172]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-knpCsUjX1L8/UJWlCxN8lhI/AAAAAAAAGWk/_ODNnh5BR_4/s640/facepalm-captain-picard.jpg

Yes, I donwmix native 5.1 to stereo, but actually I don't re-upmix to 5.1. It's simple copy, like Stereo x2 but includes the center speaker ( CMSS3d Surround 50% ).

Seriously? Sorry, I must admit, that boggles my mind. Converting from native 5.1 to downmixed stereo that is then expanded again to 5.1, that's just so mind-numbingly horrific and pointless that I can't find the words. I've seen a lot of people do very depressing things with audio, but your setup just wins it all. It almost makes me wonder if you're trying to troll me.

Even the Microsoft's 'Speaker Fill' for Realtek's chip does better job, because it produces talking from Center, FL and FR, not just center.

You mean it does a better job at producing 5.1 from native 5.1 that you downmixed on purpose in the first place? Oh well, I don't know. In fact, I really, really don't want to know.

My 5.1 setup ain't the best out there and I live in a flat. I can't get the full experience and in high volume.

What does this has to do with anything? Perceived loudness does not significantly depend on where the sound is coming from.

So by doing so at least I get better, kinda more full sound than just hearing 90% of the time only the center speaker playing.

You're supposed to hear the center speaker 90% of the time. That's how movies are mixed, and it makes sense since most sound is supposed to come from the screen where the image is. You do not get better sound by downmixing and then expanding, quite the opposite: you're losing information, removing subtle ambiance effects, and losing spatial accuracy. And that last sentence just made me feel like Captain Obvious.

Some times when I have an action movie with 24bit DTS sound, I let it in native 5.1 form.

What does "24bit DTS" has to do with anything? The audio encoding format has absolutely no bearing whatsoever over anything you or I said.

Take an example... Currently I'm watching House MD and it's 12 o'clock midnight... What good can do if I let it in native 5.1?

Again, why does loudness has anything to do with using native 5.1 over expanded stereo? If you think it's too loud or too quiet, then the solution isn't nonsensical mixing/routing setups, the solution is your volume control. And if that's impractical due to the movie being too dynamic, then it's time to use the DRC features of LAV and possibly your AV receiver, which are designed for this specific use case.

Alternatively, you could also use a good pair of headphones: that's much cheaper, less noisy, provides the "more full" sound that you seem to seek and you can set the volume however loud you want without disturbing any neighbours. You can't really get good 5.1 from headphones though, but you showed multiple times by your statements that you don't care at all about that, so that should be just right for you.

[STaRGaZeR]

…as long as you don't care about accuracy, that is. Stereo was never meant to be played back over rear speakers. It's also against current standards such as ITU-R BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775/) which explicitly forbids it (§2.1: "When there is no surround signal in a programme, surround loudspeakers should not be activated."). The proper way to play back stereo is to play back stereo. Doing it any other way is shooting yourself in the foot.

The fact that Flash does it without providing any means of disabling this stupid behavior is especially annoying (https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3289908) and that's the reason why I had to create an ugly hack (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4SHVPm2DfK5OHo3Z29SSWJycWc/edit?usp=sharing) to force Flash to output stereo correctly.



That's nonetheless better than a simple upmix, since that's how 5.1 movies are usually mixed.



Wait... so if I understand this sentence correctly, you're downmixing native 5.1 to stereo and then re-upmix it to 5.1? Really?

Seriously, drop it already. We know stereo is stereo, and 5.1 is 5.1. We want to play it however sounds best to us, not like a guide tells us. There is no need to convince anybody otherwise in every single post related the subject.

I personally think that 5.1 sucks. The effect is totally not like reality and it just sounds wrong. In a theater, where the center and front speakers are behind the huge screen, the sound is well positioned, at the same scale compared to what you're seeing on the huge screen. The sound "fills the theater" even with a simple conversation. But in a living room with tiny, shitty, badly positioned and hugely separated speakers movies sound like crap, with almost the entire freaking movie coming out the center speaker. You like it? Awesome, I don't, that's why I downmix it to 4.1 with a custom matrix to something close to duplicated stereo, so I can get theater like feeling and inmersion.

Yes, I donwmix native 5.1 to stereo, but actually I don't re-upmix to 5.1. It's simple copy, like Stereo x2 but includes the center speaker ( CMSS3d Surround 50% ).

Exactly my configuration. I let CMSS take over everything outside of MPC-HC, but when playing movies I prefer to use a custom matrix in ffdshow, being very close to what CMSS outputs.

[e-t172]

We want to play it however sounds best to us, not like a guide tells us.

In other words you're deciding based on subjective preference as opposed to objective accuracy. Fine, have it your way. That being said, I would be curious to know if you're applying the same principle to the picture. After all, who needs colorimeters and standards like Rec.709 when only subjective eye impression counts, right?

I personally think that 5.1 sucks. [...] But in a living room with tiny, shitty, badly positioned and hugely separated speakers movies sound like crap, with almost the entire freaking movie coming out the center speaker.

So what you're really saying is not "5.1 sucks" but "my own, personal, 5.1 system happens to suck".

There's a nice diagram in figure 1 of ITU-R BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775-3-201208-I/en) that describes the standard layout of a 5.1 system, complete with distances and angles, so you have no excuse for "badly positioned and hugely separated speakers", it's all up to you to fix that (that also applies to "tiny and shitty" as well, assuming of course you have the budget). That's the reference home movie releases are mastered to. If you think that sucks, then I guess the mixing/mastering engineers who produce these soundtracks (and do a stellar job at it, in my opinion, especially if we compare it to how popular music is mastered) would beg to differ.

Exactly my configuration. I let CMSS take over everything outside of MPC-HC, but when playing movies I prefer to use a custom matrix in ffdshow, being very close to what CMSS outputs.

Wait. You're saying that you have a 5.1 system as well (or 4.1 if I understand you correctly), but like Raylan Givens you're downmixing 5.1 to stereo and then expanding it again to 5.1? I'm asking that because it's quite possible to use a custom matrix that converts directly from 5.1 to 4.1 without significant loss of spatial information, in which case it makes much more sense. Downmixing to stereo absolutely does not.

[Asmodian]

I remember a "5.1" system at a friends house where the rear speakers were off center and on the floor (carpet) under an end table and the center speaker was next to the display and closer to one of the front speakers. The room acoustics were amazingly terrible, with real 5.1 the ambient sound from one of the rears was dominant (I was almost sitting on it when on the couch). It would definitely have been better to downmix to mono and output the same audio from all of the speakers.

The thing is, with the quality of the speakers and their placement, asking someone to do software work to improve your audio quality isn't the right place to start, imo.

Sadly I suspect the majority of 5.1 systems installed would benefit from a simple stereo upmix but they would also benefit from being replaced with a halfway decent 2.0 system. Since the bad 5.1 systems already exist maybe software help is worth the work it would require after all.

[ontherocks]

Is it possible to configure LAV with windows media player (Win7 64bit)? If so, how?

[sneaker_ger]

Yes, use this tool:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146910
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Preferred-Filter-Tweaker

[ontherocks]

Yes, use this tool:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146910
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Preferred-Filter-Tweaker
Thanks for this useful info. :thanks:
I looked at the settings of this tweaker. Is it possible to use LAV for bit streaming HD audio?

[NikosD]

PotPlayer v1.5.40766 got H.265 support yesterday.

Is it time for LAV video too ?

[nevcairiel]

Both H.265/HEVC and VP9 support will be in the next version.

[NikosD]

Nice...and very fast answer :)

Trying latest PotPlayer with just 5 samples of H.265, doesn't seem to work.
Probably still, no real support.

I'm sure Nev will be more careful when he will announce "H.265 support".

[wanezhiling]

PotPlayer is a FFmpeg based player, so "How H.265 support is" just depend on FFmpeg.

[Selur]

latest FFmpeg (ffplay) does support decoding of HEVC, if '-strict -2' is set.

[Mercury_22]

Hi Nev! R U back? Cause I have a bug with some ts (mpeg2) files to report ( Lav splitter reports a duration of a ~13min on a ~ 45min file and can't search beyond that time while MPC-BE's splitter and even Micro$oft's = WMP have NO problem with the same file(s)) and I was waiting for your return

[roytam1]

PotPlayer v1.5.40766 got H.265 support yesterday.

Is it time for LAV video too ?

VP9/HEVC are in git now, feel free to try my new nightly builds. ;)

[NikosD]

It works for some (.ts container) it doesn't work for some others like:

http://www.elecard.com/assets/files/other/clips/surfing.265
http://www.elecard.com/assets/files/other/clips/Sintel_272p_logo.265

[nevcairiel]

You need to enable "rawvideo" in LAV Splitter if you want to be able to open raw files like this. Note that such files have no timestamps, so pure playback is most likely not going to be 100% smooth, they are only meant as intermediates before muxing into a real container.

[NikosD]

Didn't work for me.
I tried it using DXVA Checker's "Play Mode".

Maybe a "real" player has better chance with those raw video H.265 files.