LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[ryrynz]

so here is the final piece

Ahh nice. This new build fixes the subtitle selection bug I encountered last night. I wondered what was going on, I just ended up removing the subtitle selection language guess I can put it back now :p thanks!

[sexus]

hope this will be available for us madvr users too since apparently it dont work with madvr?

[6233638]

hope this will be available for us madvr users too since apparently it dont work with madvr?DXVA2 copy-back works perfectly with madVR and with the exception of some older GPUs, works just as well as DXVA2 native does. (doesn't push the card into its high-power state like CUVID does)

[sexus]

ok so selecting what i usually do aka cuvid in lav is all i need right, while madvr is my output renderer, if not then please make it so thanks , dont wanna have to select anything else than cuvid

[Mangix]

DXVA2 copy-back works perfectly with madVR and with the exception of some older GPUs, works just as well as DXVA2 native does. (doesn't push the card into its high-power state like CUVID does)

On AMD cards, performance is horrible with copy-back while fine with native, at least in my testing with various GPUs

[kitame]

stupid question about streaming media.

if i understand correctly, the client still decodes the streamed media. if it does then how do i set it so that the server decodes the media and sends it as a decoded media(or transcoded to something simpler), would LAV support it?

thinking of making my main PC send some big-ass videos to my phone and connecting it to my TV via HDMI, and voala! i just made a makeshift wireless TV >,> dang. sorry for OT.

edit: i think plex works like this... looking it up.

[FreeFall]

nevcairiel,

With the latest experimental build DVD subtitles using hardware decoding are drawn white and not in their original colours.

Tested with CUVID, DXVA2 Copy-Back and Native using a GeForce GTX 580, no problems with software decoding or using the previous build 0.53.2.

The same sample I previously uploaded, subtitles should be yellow.
http://www.mediafire.com/?a2b5hq1244f2ue8

Thanks,

FreeFall

[Pomegranate]

Hi!

I have two issues to report.

1) I can't play 24-bit / 192 KHz flac files in MPC-HC with LAV Audio Decoder + LAV Splitter. The file plays in foobar, but I don't like foobar's interface.

2) MLP files play well, but the seek bar is greyed out and MPC-HC does not display the duration.

[hoborg]

Hi!

I have two issues to report.

1) I can't play 24-bit / 192 KHz flac files in MPC-HC with LAV Audio Decoder + LAV Splitter. The file plays in foobar, but I don't like foobar's interface.

Is not that a DTS track in FLAC ?

[Pomegranate]

Is not that a DTS track in FLAC ?

No, it's a music recording. Mediainfo says it's a real flac.

Audio
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration : 3mn 36s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 153 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 192 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 133 MiB (100%)
Writing library : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-09-17)




If you feel like trying it out, you can find similar files at :

http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html


Edit:
Actually, I'm dumb..
It was an audio renderer issue regarding flac playback.

This is what I have :

http://i47.tinypic.com/o0fbk.jpg

Renderers #2 and #5 work, but no luck with "Directsound" or "System Default". (Renderers #3 & #7 are irrelevant.)

That's a problem to me, as DTS-HD MA cracks and pops and makes all sort of weird noises when using "WaveOut".

[filler56789]

2) MLP files play well, but the seek bar is greyed out and MPC-HC does not display the duration.

That's normal, .MLPs are "elementary streams" and don't support seeking when outside of a proper container — i.e., Matroska (.MKA) or MPEG program stream (.AOB).

[Pomegranate]

That's normal, .MLPs are "elementary streams" and don't support seeking when outside of a proper container — i.e., Matroska (.MKA) or MPEG program stream (.AOB).

Thanks for the tip! I just tried it and it works like a charm with Matroska.

After further testing (with madFlac, LAV Audio Decoder and mpc-hc's internal decoder), it would seem 192khz audio files can only be rendered through WaveOut when using MPC-HC, on my system at least. Can anyone tell me if it should be working with Directsound?

[nevcairiel]

Looks like you're on Windows XP, yes? On XP, the DirectSound mixer is tightly coupled to your Audio Cards driver, so if you have any issues with DirectSound output, its most likely your audio drivers fault.
On Vista and 7, the DirectSound mixer is whole lot better, and properly processes all audio you throw at it.

[nevcairiel]

With the latest experimental build DVD subtitles using hardware decoding are drawn white and not in their original colours.

Without being able to test right now, i think i see the issue in the code. I'll confirm on the weekend and fix, thanks.

[Pomegranate]

Looks like you're on Windows XP, yes? On XP, the DirectSound mixer is tightly coupled to your Audio Cards driver, so if you have any issues with DirectSound output, its most likely your audio drivers fault.
On Vista and 7, the DirectSound mixer is whole lot better, and properly processes all audio you throw at it.

Yes, I am using XP. :o

I thought it was the driver's fault too, but I just tried SMPlayer and the file played straight out of the box. Works fine with both directsound and what is labelled as "win32" (might be "WaveOut").

I also had Nero Showtime 3, which came bundled with Nero 7, and it plays the file fine with directsound, using madFlac source.

It's probably an MPC-HC bug, right?

[nevcairiel]

Might be MPC-HCs audio switcher, you can disable it and see if it changes anything.

[mindbomb]

enabling gx mode in the xonar drivers can screw up directsound stuff.

the other players are probably downsampling it to something more common than 24 bit/192khz I'm guessing.

[Pomegranate]

@nevcairiel : I don't use audio switcher, it's always off.

@mindbomb : GX was off the whole time. I've never used it, to be honest.

I'll do another XP install on an old drive and disable the Xonar, enable the onboard sound, and see what happens.

Also, is it possible to find out if the other players are downsampling?

[filler56789]

As a temporary / ¿last? resort, give a try to ReClock. :)

[sexus]

Without being able to test right now, i think i see the issue in the code. I'll confirm on the weekend and fix, thanks.

would be nice , for us cuvid users ;)

[Pomegranate]

As a temporary / ¿last? resort, give a try to ReClock. :)

I've tried it, and it still only works with WaveOut, and I get audio drops every now and then :( . I guess I'll just use foobar2000 for now.

Thank you for the tip though, kernel streaming looks interesting.

[bjd]

I can't play 24-bit / 192 KHz flac files

Directsound input on Windows XP is limited to 96,000khz max. If you are bothering to listen to high resolution audio, far better to use an XP audio renderer that supports kernel streaming. Always found reclock to be best option.

[egur]

Using ZoomPlayer, DVD playback, I can't have LAV (0.53.2) as video decoder and MadVR (0.85.1) as renderer.
ffdshow+madvr: OK
ffdshow+EVR: OK
lav+EVR: OK
lav+madvr: filters do not connect.
All output formats are enabled in LAV except RGB24.

[aufkrawall]

nev, now that madVR works with DXVA2 native, is there a chance that you'll give 4k decoding via it a higher priority? :)

[nevcairiel]

nev, now that madVR works with DXVA2 native, is there a chance that you'll give 4k decoding via it a higher priority? :)

4k content is as nonexistant as ever, so why would that change anything?

[aufkrawall]

4k content is as nonexistant as ever, so why would that change anything?
It won't, but it'd be nice to have (honest answer :o ).

[aufkrawall]

Menu of 12 Monkeys DVD doesn't work with DXVA2 native.
I've tried EVR & madVR, screen remains black except of some weird leftovers of the menu's buttons.

What files do you need if you want to fix it? :)

[nevcairiel]

Doesn't anyone read my release notes? :P


If you still have a problematic menu, you can extract only the menu from a DVD by simply zip'ing up all the IFO/BUP files, the VIDEO_TS.VOB, and all VTS_xx_0.VOBs (VTS files ending with 0 are for menus, 1 and above are content).

[aufkrawall]

Doesn't anyone read my release notes? :P
Ah, I knew I read it somewhere. :D

wtf
Copy protection is driving me crazy. 1 sec...
Rest via PM. ;)

[egur]

Here's a problematic menu:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5ww02wdqf3c2u2q
Seems to work OK with libavcodec but with QuickSync there are issue, the correct menu image is not always displayed.

[owlsroost]

Hi Nev,

Has anything changed in the handling of video stream discontinuities/errors using DXVA2 Native in the versions after 0.51.3 ?

I use LAV Video decoder in for playing live/recorded TV, and the handling of stream corruptions has always been fine with 0.51.3 and earlier, but with the later versions the video will often freeze after a corruption (and I know that it's stopped accepting input samples from the splitter when this happens).

It seems to be fine using 'None' or 'DXVA2 copy back', it's just 'DXVA2 Native' that has the problem (tested with nVidia and Intel GPU - both behave the same, using both LAV splitter and MediaPortal's own TS splitter on the same source file).

EDIT: It seems to be only H.264 that shows the problem - MPEG2 is definitely OK on the Intel GPU system at least.

Thanks,

Tony

[nevcairiel]

Nothing really changed on how decoding is handled in a general sense that would affect this.

Its possible that a bad corruption might leak a reference from here or there which may result in running out of DXVA surfaces. What codec is this, MPEG2?

[owlsroost]

As far as I can tell, it's H.264 only that's affected, and only in DXVA2 Native mode.

Tony

[DragonQ]

Hi Nev,

Has anything changed in the handling of video stream discontinuities/errors using DXVA2 Native in the versions after 0.51.3 ?

I use LAV Video decoder in for playing live/recorded TV, and the handling of stream corruptions has always been fine with 0.51.3 and earlier, but with the later versions the video will often freeze after a corruption (and I know that it's stopped accepting input samples from the splitter when this happens).
Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder if this is why sometimes I get a black screen the first time I view an encrypted channel in MediaPortal. It only started happening recently and it would be taking a while to actually start receiving any video. Doubt it but you never know.

[nevcairiel]

DXVA2 Native and CB are very similar in how they work. In fact they share like 99.9% of their code. There are only two differences, how the surfaces are managed, and what happens with them after decoding is finished. In my opinion, only the first part could even present any problems. In DXVA2-Native, if the decoder runs out of surfaces, it will freeze and wait until one is released somewhere, which usually will not happen unless the code explicitly tells the renderer or the decoder to release them. In DXVA2-CB, it would just re-use the oldest surface, even if its still in use somewhere, but never deadlock because of missing surfaces.

The problem is that i can't really imagine this happening with H.264. I specify 20 surfaces for H.264, which should be plenty. 16 for reference frames, one for the decoded frame, and 3 for delivering to the renderer (or more, depending on how many the renderer itself requests). Considering broadcasts don't even use 16 reference frames but only 4 or so, there should be plenty of surfaces available, so even if two or three are temporarily occupied because of corruption, there is still plenty to work with.

If you can re-produce the problem quite easily, i can give you a build with debug logging, maybe it can shed some light on this?

[owlsroost]

If you can re-produce the problem quite easily, i can give you a build with debug logging, maybe it can shed some light on this?

I can reproduce it 100% with a test file I have, so I'm happy to try a debug version.

Tony

[nevcairiel]

If you say file playback, does the problem also happen with LAV Splitter, or only with the MediaPortal TS source? With LAV would simply be a lot easier to test for me, which is why i am curious :)

[owlsroost]

It happens with LAV splitter as well (I tested this last night just to check).

Tony

[nevcairiel]

It happens with LAV splitter as well (I tested this last night just to check).


Ok this should be fixed, it was indeed what i expected it to be, for some reason the bitstream is corrupted in such a way that it suddenly wants to use all reference picture buffers, which caused it to run out of buffers, but that should be fine now (it was actually fixed before, because i now take the renderers request for buffers into account)

[owlsroost]

Ok this should be fixed, it was indeed what i expected it to be, for some reason the bitstream is corrupted in such a way that it suddenly wants to use all reference picture buffers, which caused it to run out of buffers, but that should be fine now (it was actually fixed before, because i now take the renderers request for buffers into account)

Thanks :) - is there a version around that I can try ?

[nevcairiel]

Here's a problematic menu:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5ww02wdqf3c2u2q
Seems to work OK with libavcodec but with QuickSync there are issue, the correct menu image is not always displayed.

Should be fixed.
Technically it was a QSDecoder issue. What happens is that i give it a frame with a specific timestamp, and when i get the frame back, it has a timestamp of 0, which confused my timestamp logic and caused it to drop the frame, but its now handled.

[romulous]

Hi nev,

LAV v0.53.2, madVR v0.85.1 as the renderer, and Zoom Player as the player (all on Win7 64bit). The following clip will not play when LAV Video is set to DXVA2 Native:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/105555957/JustCause2-H264.mkv (26.4MB)

Zoom just shows a black screen. If I change to DXVA2 Copy-Back, it plays - but avcodec is shown in LAV, indicating DXVA is not actually in use. Same with CUVID (NVIDIA GTX-460) - clip plays, but LAV shows avcodec in use. Just using the LAV installation defaults, except for changing the hardware acceleration type obviously (I normally use CUVID, but was just testing DXVA2 Native support in the new madVR release when I found the clip wouldn't play).

[nevcairiel]

LAV v0.53.2, madVR v0.85.1 as the renderer, and Zoom Player as the player (all on Win7 64bit). The following clip will not play when LAV Video is set to DXVA2 Native:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/105555957/JustCause2-H264.mkv (26.4MB)

Zoom just shows a black screen. If I change to DXVA2 Copy-Back, it plays - but avcodec is shown in LAV, indicating DXVA is not actually in use. Same with CUVID (NVIDIA GTX-460) - clip plays, but LAV shows avcodec in use. Just using the LAV installation defaults, except for changing the hardware acceleration type obviously (I normally use CUVID, but was just testing DXVA2 Native support in the new madVR release when I found the clip wouldn't play).

Works just fine for me, in DXVA2 Native/CB or CUVID.
I only tested in MPC-HC, so it may as well be a ZP issue (unlikely, but anything is possible), but i do not have ZP installed right now.

[6233638]

Works just fine for me, in DXVA2 Native/CB or CUVID.
I only tested in MPC-HC, so it may as well be a ZP issue (unlikely, but anything is possible), but i do not have ZP installed right now.The clip isn't working for me in MPC-HC either. If I use DXVA2 Native, I get a black screen and can't play the video. (stays stopped)

With CUVID or DXVA2 copy-back, it uses avcodec to decode.

This is using LAVFilters-0.53.2-9-g1ea7611

[nevcairiel]

Dunno what to tell you, but its just fine.

http://images.gammatester.com/pics/3b3a1402943144f3aa24e4bdb16bcc89.png

[wanezhiling]

Works fine here too.

[6233638]

Dunno what to tell you, but its just fine.

http://images.gammatester.com/pics/3b3a1402943144f3aa24e4bdb16bcc89.pngWeird, is that with Nvidia?

Not that most of these should make a difference, I've tried changing MPC-HC builds, going back to the release version of LAV 0.53.2, disabling LAV Splitter (source) using EVR instead of madVR, and changing to directsound output instead of ReClock.
The only other thing I can think to change other than that would be the video driver, which I would prefer not to do, as that has a habit of clearing my custom profiles for games.

Always switches to avcodec with CUVID or DXVA2 copy-back, and refuses to play with DXVA2 native.

[nevcairiel]

Weird, is that with Nvidia?


Yes, a GTX 680 on 310.33
I also tried on my Intel HD 3000, and it also worked fine in DXVA2.

Its 1920x1200, maybe they blocked that in the driver for some reason, and only allow 1920x1080?
I guess i can install the 310.61 driver featured in your signature for testing, i dont have profiles to lose on this machine. :p

Might as well be a Win8 thing, i'm still on 7.

Edit:
Still works with 310.61.

You can try turning off the "High Quality Processing" checkbox for CUVID, that will then access the hardware more directly without any DXVA/Windows influence, maybe it helps. :D

[clsid]

I get a black screen as well.
Win7 with 306.97 driver.

[nevcairiel]

Might also be a Hardware thing. Did 1920x1200 ever work? Do other 1920x1200 clips work? I have a VP5 kepler card, which is even 4K capable, so it might be that. Maybe i simply need to reduce the limit from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080 (or finally implement proper probing for DXVA2-N)

[clsid]

Turning off HQ processing does not make a difference.

I have a VP4 card. DXVA checker shows this:
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080

Edit:
And for deinterlacing (NV12) it shows:
DXVA1/2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080 / 3840x2160

[nevcairiel]

DXVA Checker only tests common resolutions, like the ones you listed there, it doesn't test for 1920x1200, or any other in-between steps.

[6233638]

You can try turning off the "High Quality Processing" checkbox for CUVID, that will then access the hardware more directly without any DXVA/Windows influence, maybe it helps. :DStill using avcodec when I do that.

[wanezhiling]

My vp5 card gt520 works fine, I will test my vp4 card gts450 tomorrow.

[nevcairiel]

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.53.2-27-g8bf80c7.zip

Please try this version. It should hopefully be smart enough to figure out if the movies resolution is supported by your GPU, and thus avoid black-screen situations in native DXVA2.
This means, there is no hardcoded limit anymore for the DXVA2-Native resolution, assuming it doesn't break in some ugly way for someone.

If you can, please test running videos in various resolutions with this build, including 4K content. If your GPU is not capable, it should fallback to software properly, and if is capable, it should use DXVA2 Native.
Its important to test if this fallback works on all major GPUs. I tested on my Intel HD3000, and it properly falls back to Software, and on my NVIDIA GTX 680, it goes ahead and uses DXVA2. I'm specifically interested if this auto-detection works properly on AMD (and possibly also if AMD finally bothered to fix 4K decoding or if it still results in a half green frame :D)

So, run videos in supported resolutions, and ensure it uses DXVA, and try videos in unsupported resolutions (if any, 4K for most older GPUs), and see if it properly falls back to software!

PS:
I tested DXVA2-Native with 4K content and madVR, and the performance was just terrible. DXVA2 CB on the same file was like 20x faster. I've already asked madshi about performance issues with native DXVA, we'll see what happens.

PPS:
You can get 4K/2160p samples from here:
http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/samples/2160p/

Note that these samples are also high-framerate (50p usually), which is actually too much for NVIDIAs decoder (not sure about AMD) - but it can still show you if it works at all, even if it doesn't play fluidly.

[aufkrawall]

Cool, thanks nev. :)
4k files play with DXVA2n without any dropped frames for me in madVR, VPU is used and thus CPU usage very low.
Great.

Having a GTX 670.

[VipZ]

DXVA2n detection working fine for me. No 4K here sadly, instead of AMD trying to fix they simply disabled completely :(

[nevcairiel]

As long as 4k is properly falling back to software, thats at least something.

Otherwise, sounds just like AMD. :)

[VipZ]

Yep 4K is falling back correctly for me, AMD can still even crash with just NV12 output on some 4K files at present for me.

[aufkrawall]

AMD can still even crash with just NV12 output on some 4K files at present for me.
I remember blue screens some years ago with a 5870 at 4k files.
Ridiculous that it's still not fixed (or does it crash in some other way instead now? :D ).

[VipZ]

I remember blue screens some years a go with a 5870 at 4k files.
Ridiculous that it's still not fixed (or does it crash in some other way instead now? :D ).

Yep, still BSOD. I can only play that particular file when I force RGB32 output on software decoding (DVB_2012-09-09_16-38-03_Service 2_UHDTV_2160p_cut.ts)

[Prinz]

CrowdRun_2160p50.x264.CRF24 with DX native and evr crashes the graphic driver on my ATI 2600 XT.

[nevcairiel]

Guess some older GPUs don't do too well with 4k DXVA, even the attempt to open a decoder.
I had planned to add a checkbox to control 4K DXVA anyway (also because of the performance issues), guess i better add it right away.

Just to give some performance perspective, using Jinc3+AR for Chroma and Catmull-Rom+Linear Light for Image Downscaling pushes my GTX 680 over its limit playing a 3840x2160 file, downscaling to 2560x1440. Guess we can be lucky 4K content isn't popular yet, our hardware is still too slow (or we need better screens too, so downscaling isn't required!) :D

[6233638]

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.53.2-27-g8bf80c7.zip

Please try this version. It should hopefully be smart enough to figure out if the movies resolution is supported by your GPU, and thus avoid black-screen situations in native DXVA2.
This means, there is no hardcoded limit anymore for the DXVA2-Native resolution, assuming it doesn't break in some ugly way for someone.That sample is still using avcodec here, whether CUVID/DXVA2 is selected, and even my CPU doesn't appear capable of handling the 4K samples.

I wonder if the issue is something to do with the videos being above 1080p resolution. I have other MKV files where DXVA decoding works just fine.

PS:
I tested DXVA2-Native with 4K content and madVR, and the performance was just terrible. DXVA2 CB on the same file was like 20x faster. I've already asked madshi about performance issues with native DXVA, we'll see what happens.This was my experience when testing last night. VPU load with some samples was as much as 20% higher with DXVA2 native compared to DXVA2 copy-back.

Just to give some performance perspective, using Jinc3+AR for Chroma and Catmull-Rom+Linear Light for Image Downscaling pushes my GTX 680 over its limit playing a 3840x2160 file, downscaling to 2560x1440. Guess we can be lucky 4K content isn't popular yet, our hardware is still too slow (or we need better screens too, so downscaling isn't required!) :DI wonder if it's the decoder or the GPU load failing.

Before the queues drop to 0, I'm only seeing about 60–70% GPU load. (Nvidia Inspector tells you GPU, MCU, and VPU load)

[nevcairiel]

That sample is still using avcodec here, whether CUVID/DXVA2 is selected, and even my CPU doesn't appear capable of handling the 4K samples.

It wasn't meant to change that, but if using DXVA2 Native, it should now properly fallback to software (instead of giving you a black screen), because it trys to probe the hardware for support, instead of using a fixed resolution limit.

[6233638]

It wasn't meant to change that, but if using DXVA2 Native, it should now properly fallback to software (instead of giving you a black screen), because it trys to probe the hardware for support, instead of using a fixed resolution limit.Sorry, I misunderstood that. It does fall back to avcodec correctly.

So does that mean you need a 600-series card to decode anything above 1080p with hardware acceleration?

[nevcairiel]

I wonder if it's the decoder or the GPU load failing.


I tried software decoding for this, and my CPU managed to keep up, lowering the scaling settings made it work just fine, GPU load was in the 90s with my above mentioned settings.

Sorry, I misunderstood that. It does fall back to avcodec correctly.

So does that mean you need a 600-series card to decode anything above 1080p with hardware acceleration?

Well i thought at least 1920x1200 was still supported by the older hardware, but i can't say i really had any proof.

[6233638]

I tried software decoding for this, and my CPU managed to keep up, lowering the scaling settings made it work just fine, GPU load was in the 90s with my above mentioned settings.What kind of CPU are you using? I was really surprised that my 2500K couldn't keep up, even though it's overclocked to 4.5GHz. 6-core? (hyperthreading shouldn't make a difference, as all cores were at 100%)

[romulous]

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.53.2-27-g8bf80c7.zip

Please try this version. It should hopefully be smart enough to figure out if the movies resolution is supported by your GPU, and thus avoid black-screen situations in native DXVA2.
This means, there is no hardcoded limit anymore for the DXVA2-Native resolution, assuming it doesn't break in some ugly way for someone.



Thanks nev - the file I posted now plays with DXVA2 Native (it falls back to avcodec, like Copy-Back and CUDA), rather than showing the black screen. NVIDIA GTX460 here, 310.61 Beta drivers. It's interesting that my card doesn't seem to support 1920x1200 for hardware accleration - 1920x1080 files seem ok.

The clip was originally an uncompressed FRAPS encode, captured at my displays native resolution (1920x1200). Because raw FRAPS encodes tend to be on the large side, and because you need a far more powerful system than my Quad Core to be able to play those uncompressed clips without massive frame loss, I encoded it to H264 MKV. I can't recall what tool I used to do this now - it was probably XMedia Recode though. I would have selected one of the preset profiles - I don't know too much about the fine details of video encoding.

[DragonQ]

(hyperthreading shouldn't make a difference, as all cores were at 100%)
That statement makes no sense. All cores would be at 100% when video encoding too, doesn't stop the addition of HyperThreading greatly increasing speed.

[6233638]

That statement makes no sense. All cores would be at 100% when video encoding too, doesn't stop the addition of HyperThreading greatly increasing speed.I guess I don't properly understand how HyperThreading works then. I was under the impression that it helped more with multi-tasking operations by allowing the virtual cores to make use of resources that may be stalled and waiting for a task to finish on another core.

With fully multithreaded tasks that max out all cores, such as video encoding, the tests I had seen only showed around a 5% improvement at the same clockspeed for a 50% increase in price, and were actually detrimental to performance with tasks that didn't know how to handle HT properly.

Maybe things have changed with the latest Ivy Bridge processors though.


I was just very surprised to find that my CPU couldn't handle those videos when it's still faster than the current Ivy Bridge equivalents at their stock clockspeeds. (at least in the tests I've run, maybe not video decoding?)

[Tacio]

I have Intel DN2800MT motherboard with embedded Atom 2800 and DXVA checker shows next capabilities of atom's graphics:
http://s8.postimage.org/j90dz8o9x/image.png
Using latest dev build of LAV filters I tried to play 2160p videos from this link http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/samples/2160p/. DXVA checker says pretty the same info about them:
http://s14.postimage.org/to3o0wsup/image.png
However, when I tried to benchmark of play in DXVA checker I got this for any movie:
http://s8.postimage.org/mc5pgcsmd/image.png
When I tried to play Time Scapes 4K (actually 2560x1440 resolution) I had little bit better results :))
http://s8.postimage.org/41ozsmlt1/image.png
MPC-HC shows the same results. But with less resolution movies no problem at all though. Is it possible to fix it or it's a hardware/drivers limitation? I use the latest drivers from intel website and windows 7 sp1 x32 without aero.

[nevcairiel]

What kind of CPU are you using? I was really surprised that my 2500K couldn't keep up, even though it's overclocked to 4.5GHz. 6-core? (hyperthreading shouldn't make a difference, as all cores were at 100%)

I'm on a 2600k at 4.5Ghz as well.
And like someone else explained, HT does give you benefits in highly threaded tasks, even if all cores are at 100%.

What it basically does is improve the pipelining of the CPU, because even at 100%, internally not all stages of the CPU are always 100% busy, and by running two threads on the same core, you can improve this percentage.

In my test some time ago, HT added about 30% performance in video decoding (with an appropriate increase in thread-count, "Auto" setting in LAV does that for you)

Is it possible to fix it or it's a hardware/drivers limitation? I use the latest drivers from intel website and windows 7 sp1 x32 without aero.
Its most likely a hardware limitation, i would've actually been surprised if the Atom had 4k decoding capabilities.

I already added options to control whether it uses DXVA for SD, HD and UHD(4k) content, with 4K off by default, so even if your hardware claims support for 4K, you can turn it off again to avoid this. ;)

[6233638]

I'm on a 2600k at 4.5Ghz as well.
And like someone else explained, HT does give you benefits in highly threaded tasks, even if all cores are at 100%.

What it basically does is improve the pipelining of the CPU, because even at 100%, internally not all stages of the CPU are always 100% busy, and by running two threads on the same core, you can improve this percentage.

In my test some time ago, HT added about 30% performance in video decoding.So much for reviews then. I had a look around to check, and at least with the first few reviews I came across, they did only show roughly the 5% difference with video encoding/decoding when comparing the 2500K/2600K at the same clockspeeds that I had remembered.

I suppose it must have been a problem with their testing methodology, and it looks like I'll be buying a HT-enabled CPU next time I upgrade.

I also wasn't expecting to be needing to do any kind of encoding/decoding on the CPU when I bought this though. Sorry for going off-topic.

[nevcairiel]

Its not like 4K content is an every-day thing, besides some tech-demo clips, what else is there? :D

[Tacio]

I already added options to control whether it uses DXVA for SD, HD and UHD(4k) content, with 4K off by default, so even if your hardware claims support for 4K, you can turn it off again to avoid this. ;)
But as you understand Atom is not capable to play 2160p in software mode :)) Ok, doesn't matter.
BTW, DXVA checker also claims that this Atom capable of playing MPEG4 ASP, is it possible to add such an opting in LAV video filter? For such low power processor it could be great!

[6233638]

Its not like 4K content is an every-day thing, besides some tech-demo clips, what else is there? :DWell not yet. Hopefully with all this retina stuff Apple is pushing, we'll see 4K monitors show up some time next year, and with 4K TVs and Blu-ray players available, surely content has to be coming soon.

[wanezhiling]

Turn uhd on,play 4k in native mode, greenscreen and BSOD on 6850 card... cant fallback to sw..

[nevcairiel]

AMD seems to simply be stupid, their driver claims 4K is supported, but when you try to use it, it just doesn't work (or even BSODs). Thats what the checkbox is for (and why its off by default). :D

If people prefer, i could simply blacklist 4K DXVA on AMD instead of hoping that users don't turn on the checkbox.

[wanezhiling]

Good idea,amd destroy my system!

[RealSnoopyDog]

Its not like 4K content is an every-day thing, besides some tech-demo clips, what else is there? :D

Not yet, but (e.g.) ASTRA will start 4k test broadcasting next year:

http://www.digitalfernsehen.de/Astra-Erste-4K-Ausstrahlung-2013.95013.0.html (german language). But they even don't know, which video compression they will use. Maybe, HEVC or H.265...

But hey, i'm pretty satisfied with 1920x1080 on a 46'' flat screen. :D Higher resolutions make sense only on bigger displays.

The other thing is 3D. I think except the latest Cyberlink software, there is no codec so far that can decode 3D content properly. On Blu-Rays, additional information is stored in the SSIF subdirectory along the normal m2ts streams.

[VipZ]

Nev, I have noticed WMA/WMV are not configurable on LAV Source/Splitter, would this be possible to add now that LAV fully supports WMV playback?

[nevcairiel]

Nev, I have noticed WMA/WMV are not configurable on LAV Source/Splitter, would this be possible to add now that LAV fully supports WMV playback?

Its "asf", which is the same format. :p

[VipZ]

Its "asf", which is the same format. :p

Ah ok, wasn't sure if it was just ASF or covered WMA/WMV as well :)

Thanks, maybe adjust the description to indicate WMA/WMV as well then?

[wanezhiling]

nev, UHD only supports Nvidia VP5? I tested Intel hd4000, failed.

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.54

LAV Splitter
- Subtitle selection in "Default" mode now properly takes the "Default Track" flag into account
- Fixed an issue that could cause graph flush events to be send out of sync

LAV Video
- The DXVA2 Native decoder can now properly detect hardware support for video resolutions
- Allows 4K DXVA2 decoding on NVIDIA/Intel
- New options to control which resolutions are being handled by the hardware decoder (SD, HD and 4K/UHD)
- Added support for DVD menu overlays and DVD subtitles with DXVA2 Native
- Improved DXVA2 Native support with madVR
- Fixed a freeze when playing corrupted H.264 streams in DXVA2 Native
- Fixed a few rare DVD menu issues when using the QuickSync decoder


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54-x64.zip)

Even though this versions change list is somewhat shorter, i still decided to go with a new major version, instead of just a point release, because the changes are somewhat important.

DXVA2 Native auto-detection of hardware support
Before this version, DXVA2 Native mode had a hard-limit of 1920x1200 for the video resolution, and any video over this was refused and software decoding was used.
In this version, LAV will now try to ask the hardware about its supported resolutions, and based on this decide if DXVA2 Native should be used, or not.

This means that recent NVIDIA cards will now allow DXVA2-Native to decode 4K material (and possibly Ivy Bridge GPUs will as well).
AMD on the other hand is blacklisted in LAV, because some AMD driver versions accept 4K material, but then crash or even BSOD (and newer driver versions simply refuse it completely, so nothing lost). As before, only material up to 1920x1200 is allowed with AMD hardware.

Additionally, there is also a new option to control which resolutions are handled by the HW Accel, which allows you to use DXVA, CUVID or QS for just SD/HD, but always use Software for 4K, even if your hardware supports it. You could also simply disable SD HW decoding, if you have one of the AMD cards which have problems with SD DXVA. Note that Ultra-high-definition (UHD) / 4K is disabled by default because of performance and/or possibly hardware compat issues.

Full DVD Menu and DVD Subtitle support with DXVA2 Native
One could say this build focuses mainly on Native DXVA, and it wouldn't even be all wrong.

DXVA2-Native can now also be used for DVD decoding without any disadvantages over the other decoders. DVD Menus and DVD subtitles should now work equally well as with software decoding or any of the other HW decoders.
Note that i have not performed wide-spread performance tests on the DXVA2 Subtitle support, but i hope that even AMD can manage to deal with this.


Have a good weekend!

[nevcairiel]

nev, UHD only supports Nvidia VP5? I tested Intel hd4000, failed.

Its possible that Intel only allows it through QuickSync for some reason. I know that QS can do 4K decoding on my HD4000, i didn't test DXVA (because the HD4000 is not in my Dev PC)

What does DXVAChecker say on it?

[wanezhiling]

Its possible that Intel only allows it through QuickSync for some reason. I know that QS can do 4K decoding on my HD4000, i didn't test DXVA (because the HD4000 is not in my Dev PC)

What does DXVAChecker say on it?

My fault, now it works.

Maybe you should change the log:
- Allows 4K DXVA2 decoding on NVIDIA/Intel;)

[DragonQ]

I guess I don't properly understand how HyperThreading works then. I was under the impression that it helped more with multi-tasking operations by allowing the virtual cores to make use of resources that may be stalled and waiting for a task to finish on another core.
That's about right. However, your CPU being at 100% in Task Manager doesn't mean every single component is being used. HyperThreading uses components that a CPU core isn't using right now to form another virtual core that can be used for other things, essentially.

With fully multithreaded tasks that max out all cores, such as video encoding, the tests I had seen only showed around a 5% improvement at the same clockspeed for a 50% increase in price, and were actually detrimental to performance with tasks that didn't know how to handle HT properly.

Maybe things have changed with the latest Ivy Bridge processors though.
Dunno what benchmarks you were looking at but HyperThreading typically increases speed by 30-50% for video encoding (x264 specifically). This has always been the case, I tested it myself many years ago on my Nehalem CPU.

HyperThreading being detrimental to performance is usually overblown. It's possible it makes a slight difference (<5%) but the main complaints I see about this is in regard to certain games, which are obviously coded poorly if they can't handle HyperThreading.

For 99% of people, HyperThreading is beneficial. Whether it's worth it for the price is another matter though.

[kasper93]

FWIW, maybe someone could contact AMD folks and tell about problems with 4k dxva decoding. I guess they are aware of that, but maybe it will encourage them to fix this faster. Or if they can't do DXVA 4k decoding at least their driver shouldn't report they can. I would do this, but I can't test DXVA decoding right now, and I shouldn't say about things that I can't test myself.

[VipZ]

FWIW, maybe someone could contact AMD folks and tell about problems with 4k dxva decoding. I guess they are aware of that, but maybe it will encourage them to fix this faster. Or if they can't do DXVA 4k decoding at least their driver shouldn't report they can. I would do this, but I can't test DXVA decoding right now, and I shouldn't say about things that I can't test myself.

AMD has updated their drivers to simply remove 4K decoding, its only old drivers which fail with a crash or BSOD. I have reported HDMI audio issues few times and pretty sure others have done the same and AMD has yet to fix it so don't really feel like wasting time to try get AMD to fix something like 4K which is hardly used.

[wanezhiling]

AMD has updated their drivers to simply removed 4K decoding
Could you post any info about this you knew?

Of course, I will try Catalyst 12.11 Beta8 later.

[VipZ]

Could you post any info about this you knew?

Of course, I will try Catalyst 12.11 Beta8 later.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19338638/dxva.JPG

And LAV fallback worked as expected to use software on 4K content pre blacklist.

[wanezhiling]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19338638/dxva.JPG

And LAV fallback worked as expected to use software on 4K content pre blacklist.

Thanks.

AMD is aware of their "lie":p

[aufkrawall]

New versions fixes the menu issue, thanks.

[kasper93]

So blacklist added in cea9c97 will not be needed with newer driver, fallback should work fine :)

[wanezhiling]

So blacklist added in cea9c97 will not be needed with newer driver, fallback should work fine :)
Still lots of people use the older drivers.

[kasper93]

Thats is why I said "will not be" :) Anyway hardware acceleration UHD/4K is disabled by default, I guess people are not so stupid to enable it, there is even a note in the tooltip ...On AMD GPUs, 4K support is very fragile, and may even cause crashes or BSODs, use at your own risk. but @nevcairiel will do as he thinks :) I don't like when software decide for me, but maybe it's better this way. (・へ・)

BTW. No need to quote post above ;p

[nevcairiel]

I'll still keep the blacklist for AMD right now, because there is no downside. People have tested on the latest drivers, and it doesn't work, people have tested on older drivers, and it crashes. Its MPEG-2 support all over again, they claim it works, but it takes like 2 hardware generations more until it actually works. :p

[Prinz]

And don't forget: All ATI 2000,3000,4000 are on legacy support now and can't use the current drivers.

[ajp_anton]

HyperThreading being detrimental to performance is usually overblown. It's possible it makes a slight difference (<5%) but the main complaints I see about this is in regard to certain games, which are obviously coded poorly if they can't handle HyperThreading.

For 99% of people, HyperThreading is beneficial. Whether it's worth it for the price is another matter though.In my experience, HT lowering performance is an XP thing. Perhaps it's not properly putting threads on physical cores when they are available. I used to dual-boot between XP and 7 because of XP-only drivers of a component, and all noticeable performance problems were gone in 7.

[clsid]

DVD playback does not seem to work properly with LAV Video in WMP11 on XP. I just get a black screen. Can anyone confirm this problem?

Could it be another compatibility issue with Overlay Mixer?

[aufkrawall]

Does Intel HD 3000 not support DXVA for VC-1?
It doesn't work for me but QuickSync does.

Btw: Is there a chance that the option to turn on deinterlacing with QS will return? I found it handy to keep GPU usage (and thus power usage) low when using a dedicated GPU for rendering.

[clsid]

Another issue:
LAV Video gives a black screen in Subtitle Workshop (http://www.videohelp.com/download/SubtitleWorkshop_2.52_20120701.rar). Interesting thing is that pressing the "Alter playback rate" button in SW makes the video start playing. Problem does not occur with ffdshow.

[nevcairiel]

Another issue:
LAV Video gives a black screen in Subtitle Workshop (http://www.videohelp.com/download/SubtitleWorkshop_2.52_20120701.rar). Interesting thing is that pressing the "Alter playback rate" button in SW makes the video start playing. Problem does not occur with ffdshow.

The old "stable" version doesn't work with any decoder for me, ffdshow, LAV or anything else. The Beta 4 version works with LAV just fine.

DVD playback does not seem to work properly with LAV Video in WMP11 on XP. I just get a black screen. Can anyone confirm this problem?

Could it be another compatibility issue with Overlay Mixer?

I don't know about XP (and frankly i don't particularly care), but on Win7 i can't even seem to get WMP use anything but its own decoder for DVDs. When i disable it, it completely fails to play.

Does Intel HD 3000 not support DXVA for VC-1?
It doesn't work for me but QuickSync does.
Intels VC-1 DXVA is not standard compliant, so unless someone gets Intel to spill the beans on whats different, QuickSync will be the only way.


Btw: Is there a chance that the option to turn on deinterlacing with QS will return? I found it handy to keep GPU usage (and thus power usage) low when using a dedicated GPU for rendering.

Maybe some day when i get the chance to test it again, and it has actually improved since the last time and doesn't fail spectacularly again.

[aufkrawall]

Intels VC-1 DXVA is not standard compliant, so unless someone gets Intel to spill the beans on whats different, QuickSync will be the only way.

How stupid.
But it seems at least one mysterious version of PowerDVD is able to do it:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/test-sandy-bridge-grafik/8/


Maybe some day when i get the chance to test it again, and it has actually improved since the last time and doesn't fail spectacularly again.
Ok, thanks.

[PetitDragon]

With new 0.54 version, DVD menu still no goes when using ffdshow + avisynth plugin enable.

[nevcairiel]

How stupid.
But it seems at least one mysterious version of PowerDVD is able to do it:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/test-sandy-bridge-grafik/8/

The information may be available to a company that asks nicely, or they may be using Intels Media SDK (which is the base of the QuickSync decoder), just as plain DXVA.

With new 0.54 version, DVD menu still no goes when using ffdshow + avisynth plugin enable.

The way some DVD menus work, thats just not something thats possible.
Some DVD menus only have one video frame, and if the AviSynth plugin buffers several frames, this one frame will just be hidden in the buffer and not be send to the renderer. Can't really change that. Your best chance is to use ffdshow for decoding, it might then have the ability to tell the AviSynth plugin to flush its buffers in DVD menus, something LAV cannot do.

[egur]

...
Maybe some day when i get the chance to test it again, and it has actually improved since the last time and doesn't fail spectacularly again.
I'll be glad to fix things if I know what's wrong.

[clsid]

The old "stable" version doesn't work with any decoder for me, ffdshow, LAV or anything else. The Beta 4 version works with LAV just fine.The version I linked to (2.52 RC) works with ffdshow here. At least for a mkv file with H.264 video. Could you try that version? It may very well be a bug in SW, but since it works (for me) with ffdshow, and it also works with LAV after changing playback rate, I though it might be a solvable problem.
I don't know about XP (and frankly i don't particularly care), but on Win7 i can't even seem to get WMP use anything but its own decoder for DVDs. When i disable it, it completely fails to play.I was afraid you might say that. No MPEG-2 decoder is included with XP. DVD playback works in combination with ffdshow.

[nevcairiel]

The version I linked to (2.52 RC) works with ffdshow here. At least for a mkv file with H.264 video. Could you try that version? It may very well be a bug in SW, but since it works (for me) with ffdshow, and it also works with LAV after changing playback rate, I though it might be a solvable problem.


At first, it didn't even manage to build a DirectShow graph here. It inserts LAV and VSFilter and connects the two, but it doesn't manage to make the connection to the renderer. Same thing happens with ffdshow.

Then i uninstalled VSFilter, and then it started working just fine, no changing playback rate required, but it did complain about not being able to render the subtitle pin, obviously. Maybe in this combination it would work better with ffdshow if it lets ffdshow handle the subtitles, i don't know.


I was afraid you might say that. No MPEG-2 decoder is included with XP. DVD playback works in combination with ffdshow.

Well i don't have any XP system anymore, and i do not plan on getting one ever again if i can help it, so i can't do anything.

[Superb]

SW 2.51 works well w/ LAV.
I just had to disable the built-in Windows 7 decoders: http://i.imgur.com/PNzIn.png
Everything then works.
VSFilter is known to break the SW directshow graph when installed.

[clsid]

VSFilter is known to break the SW directshow graph when installed.I submitted a patch for VSFilter earlier today that adds it to the blacklist in VSFilter ;)

[nx6]

And don't forget: All ATI 2000,3000,4000 are on legacy support now and can't use the current drivers.

D:

Might be time for me to consider getting a newer graphics card soon then.

[TheShadowRunner]

clsid, I can confirm that LAV works great for decoding DVDs on XP. Using Zoom Player.
It works with all decoding modes: software, CUVID, and even DXVA2 (native).
I tried both PAL and NTSC DVDs.
It even detects when a NTSC DVD mpeg2 stream is flagged for pulldown, madVR then changes the display frequency to 24hz on its own (if instructed to do so, of course).
In other words, LAV + DVD on XP pretty much perfect.

2 small things though (for Nev).
1. Cosmetic: when "Enable DVD Video Support" is checked, shouldn't the "mpeg2" decoder be automatically checked as well?
At some point I thought only "Enable DVD Video Support" was needed for DVD playback and since I had every codec unchecked except the ones I use (vp6, vc1), it wouldn't work. Maybe link both "mpeg2" and "Enable DVD Video support" checkboxes?

2. A small bug due to aspect ratio on DVD menus (?).
On DVDs with widescreen menus, clicking on the buttons themselves does nothing, and one must click "next" to them for them to work properly [clicking right over the buttons doesn't work]. It seems to be because the menu buttons coordinates are based on 4/3 and when LAV (or is it the player?) stretches the menu to 16/9 for proper AR, the new buttons coordinates aren't "reflected".
For exemple, with such problematic widescreen menus, if I force the Aspect Ration to 4/3, then every button on the menu works [clicking right over the buttons work].

Edit: Using madVR of course, and LAV 0.54.

[romulous]

Hi nev,

Thanks for the new release. There seems to be a problem with Copy-Back and that sample I posted though (the 1920x1200 sample that was showing a black screen with Native). The sample gets to about 3 seconds in, and then just stops playing. It also locks the player, so Task Manager is required to kill it. Sample link again:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/105555957/JustCause2-H264.mkv

Not sure if it is a LAV problem, madVR or the player. Thanks.

Edit: Just reverted to 0.53.2. It gets about 10 seconds in before it shows the same behaviour.

[clsid]

@TheShadowRunner
I know it works with other players. The problem is with WMP11. Can you test with that too?

I turns out that the problem is related to the interlacing flags.
Enabling TreatAsProgressive or Yadif solves the problem.

[Megalith]

Is the LAV Video Decoder supposed to be running at the same that madVR is? I might be crazy, but the video quality seems worse if they are.

[Duffy Moon]

Is the LAV Video Decoder supposed to be running at the same that madVR is? I might be crazy, but the video quality seems worse if they are.

Yes. Maybe you're crazy? :D

[filler56789]

@TheShadowRunner
I know it works with other players. The problem is with WMP11. Can you test with that too?

I turns out that the problem is related to the interlacing flags.
Enabling TreatAsProgressive or Yadif solves the problem.

Over here, LAV Video + WMP11 works as it should with DVDs.
No need to enable "Treat as progressive" nor YADIF.
Maybe it depends on the video drivers? :confused:

EDIT:

I spoke too early :o , now that I've made sure LAV Video is actually used by WMP 11, yes, it works only when YADIF is enabled, and the subtitles don't appear at all. :confused:

But this all is not very-important, because I don't like to use WMP 11. :)

[nevcairiel]

2. A small bug due to aspect ratio on DVD menus (?).
On DVDs with widescreen menus, clicking on the buttons themselves does nothing, and one must click "next" to them for them to work properly [clicking right over the buttons doesn't work]. It seems to be because the menu buttons coordinates are based on 4/3 and when LAV (or is it the player?) stretches the menu to 16/9 for proper AR, the new buttons coordinates aren't "reflected".
For exemple, with such problematic widescreen menus, if I force the Aspect Ration to 4/3, then every button on the menu works [clicking right over the buttons work].


Unless this doesn't happen with another decoder, its a player or renderer problem. I don't think its the decoders fault, because it doesn't position the clickable areas, the only possibility would be if the decoder gets the AR wrong, but does it look wrong?


Thanks for the new release. There seems to be a problem with Copy-Back and that sample I posted though (the 1920x1200 sample that was showing a black screen with Native). The sample gets to about 3 seconds in, and then just stops playing. It also locks the player, so Task Manager is required to kill it.

Plays just fine for me, with any decoder, software, CB or Native.
Considering the HW decoder doesn't work with this sample on your system, it would fallback to software, and that mode also works just fine for me.

[romulous]

Plays just fine for me, with any decoder, software, CB or Native.
Considering the HW decoder doesn't work with this sample on your system, it would fallback to software, and that mode also works just fine for me.

Thanks nev. Just tried it with EVR, and it works ok. Looks like it only locks up when madVR is used. I will pop into the madVR thread and report it there.

[Fullmetal Encoder]

Is the LAV Video Decoder supposed to be running at the same that madVR is? I might be crazy, but the video quality seems worse if they are.

Is my computer supposed to be running at the same time that madVR is? I might be crazy, but the video quality seems worse if it is.

[clsid]

Over here, LAV Video + WMP11 works as it should with DVDs.
No need to enable "Treat as progressive" nor YADIF.
Maybe it depends on the video drivers? :confused:

EDIT:

I spoke too early :o , now that I've made sure LAV Video is actually used by WMP 11, yes, it works only when YADIF is enabled, and the subtitles don't appear at all. :confused:

But this all is not very-important, because I don't like to use WMP 11. :)
The sub/menu issue is because ffdshow is stealing the subtitle pin. I will see if I can get that fixed.

@nevcairiel
Could you consider adding a workaround to enable Yadif for this combo?
DVD + WinXP + wmplayer.exe

[wanezhiling]

:p Nev has no interest on XP though 70%+ people in China stick to XP.

[aufkrawall]

:p Nev has no interest on XP though 70%+ people in China stick to XP.
It's simply outdated, even many game developers don't support it (DX9) anymore.

[wanezhiling]

It's simply outdated, even many game developers don't support it (DX9) anymore.

I couldn't agree more. I got rid of XP three years ago myself.

But you know..:p

[filler56789]

Except that in this case, the actual problem is in Windows Media Player 11, not in XP itself. :sly:

And let's try to go back to the topic. :)

[Tacio]

http://www.mediafire.com/?bo70xnw2xl9n30d
In DXVA checker this egur's test clip plays fine using my HD3000 and MS DTV-DVD video decoder. But with LAV filters and DXVA2n video is corrupted. The same is for MPC-BE.

[nevcairiel]

http://www.mediafire.com/?bo70xnw2xl9n30d
In DXVA checker this egur's test clip plays fine using my HD3000 and MS DTV-DVD video decoder. But with LAV filters and DXVA2n video is corrupted. The same is for MPC-BE.

Use the QuickSync decoder for Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge GPUs.
Using DXVA is not recommended, because Intels HW implementation is somewhat different (and Intel doesn't actually say different how), this is especially true for files with a high number of reference frames (like this one).

[Qaq]

Yep, I also would love to get DXVA1 support in LAV video. I have win7 setup but just can't move all my staff from XP to 7, so often even watch video in XP with working processes in background. Now I have to switch to Cyberlink for heavy video.

[nevcairiel]

DXVA1 support in LAV video.

Not going to happen.
Thats even one of those things i wouldn't even accept a patch for, because i simply have no ability to test it and ensure it keeps working (not like i have ever received a patch thats more then 2 lines or so.)

[zeropc]

is there a way to select the embedded ac3 track from a dolby true-hd file as default? if so, how would i do that?

[sneaker_ger]

Why would you want to do that?
If you want to bitstream and your receiver doesn't do TrueHD just check "Dolby Digital (AC-3)" under bitstreaming in LAV Audio. You could also try to deactivate "TrueHD" in the formats tab.

[zeropc]

ac3 and dts are check and dolby thd/dts-hd/eac3 are unchecked, but it wont pass-through the ac3 unless i select it manually. the dts core however gets played without problems.

[sneaker_ger]

ac3 and dts are check and dolby thd/dts-hd/eac3 are unchecked, but it wont pass-through the ac3 unless i select it manually.

So the ac3 core and the TrueHD data without any core are in different tracks and LAV Splitter selects the TrueHD track by default?

[zeropc]

no... the ac3 core is embedded into the truehd track. the true-hd track, if want to call it that way, is selected as default.

[nevcairiel]

So the ac3 core and the TrueHD data without any core are in different tracks and LAV Splitter selects the TrueHD track by default?

LAV Splitter does actually split the AC3 track out of the TrueHD track, into a separate track, yes. Mostly because those two tracks are completely unrelated, and a TrueHD decoder simply does not need it.
So any TrueHD track output by LAV is pure TrueHD (at least when its from a mpeg-ts file), no AC3 frames in it anymore.

LAV has an option if those "substreams" should be shown as a separate track, or simply discarded.

And no, there is no way to auto-select the AC3 track. Higher Quality Streams are always preferred.

[sneaker_ger]

Thx for the explanation. Had to dig out a sample file to actually test it myself because I didn't have any ready. Maybe LAV Splitter could be changed to only select tracks which can be decoded? (So one would have to disable all TrueHD decoders prior and would then select the core instead of the lossless part) Or disable the lossless part in the splitter.
The request itself seems reasonable.

[nevcairiel]

Maybe LAV Splitter could be changed to only select tracks which can be decoded? (So one would have to disable all TrueHD decoders prior and would then select the core instead of the lossless part)

And how would LAV know that? :)

I have no plans to add options for codec-based selection logic, it would just add a lot of confusion.

[sneaker_ger]

If no decoder accepts the connection?
Sorry, I don't know much about DirectShow.

Also see my edit.

[nevcairiel]

LAV only exposes a pin, it doesn't manage the graph building.

[sneaker_ger]

I see. So then a Splitter option would be needed.

[Vasilich]

i suppose LAV audio in above case will select AC3 core track if TrueHD is UNchecked in its options?

[nevcairiel]

Thats not how DirectShow works. The source exposes a pin with a specific type, and DirectShow trys to find a filter that accepts this type. If the exposed type is TrueHD, then you need a decoder that can decode TrueHD, LAV Audio cannot decide to change this to AC3, because it wouldn't even get a chance for that. Usually the player or DirectShow itself control the graph building, the filters can only decide what they accept and what not.

[Vasilich]

it means that there is no chance to hear anything (without manual switching of audio tracks) for above case if my receiver doesn't support trueHD?
or LAV audio can decode trueHD but i then need to use audio postprocessor for encoding this to AC3 because i have only optical cable connected to my receiver?

[sneaker_ger]

it means that there is no chance to hear anything (without manual switching of audio tracks) for above case if my receiver doesn't support trueHD?
or LAV audio can decode trueHD but i then need to use audio postprocessor for encoding this to AC3 because i have only optical cable connected to my receiver?

Either that or stereo only.

[clsid]

How about a simple option "Prefer HD audio tracks"?

Checked: use current logic based on quality and number of channels
Unchecked: DTS > AC3 > TrueHD, and 7.1 = 5.1 > 2.0

That would be helpful for those who want to bitstream to an older receiver.

[nevcairiel]

http://www.mediafire.com/?bo70xnw2xl9n30d
In DXVA checker this egur's test clip plays fine using my HD3000 and MS DTV-DVD video decoder. But with LAV filters and DXVA2n video is corrupted. The same is for MPC-BE.

I think i actually finally figured it out, and fixed the problem.

Try with this version:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54-4-gc509fe2.zip

I would also appreciate if anyone could test this version with DXVA2 Native or CB on older Intel GPUs, if anyone has one? Like the 4500MHD? or Atoms?

Here is a sample which broke before this version, but works on SNB/IVB now:
http://files.1f0.de/samples/Madoka-002.mkv

Any feedback would be great, please confirm if its using DXVA2 on this sample, it will fallback to software if your Hardware and/or Driver doesn't support the proper H.264 spec (only on this sample, others with fewer reference frames will still use DXVA2 on those systems).

If you still have issues, a DXVA Checker report might be useful.

[Tacio]

Thanks!
Now this sample works fine on my HD3000 and atom 2800 using LAV filters and dxva2n!

[nevcairiel]

Great, thanks for confirming.

[chros]

A quick question regarding video decoding on nvidia GPU and dxva2n with madvr: is there any advantage using dxva2n over cuvid ? (performance, quality, etc.)

Thanks for your hard work!

[DragonQ]

A quick question regarding video decoding on nvidia GPU and dxva2n with madvr: is there any advantage using dxva2n over cuvid ? (performance, quality, etc.)

Thanks for your hard work!
DXVA2 Native uses less power.

[dansrfe]

Feature request:

Keyboard shortcut to increase/decrease audio delay by specified amount on-the-fly for the current file.

[huhn]

plus minus at mpc hc

[owlsroost]

I think i actually finally figured it out, and fixed the problem.

Try with this version:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54-4-gc509fe2.zip

I would also appreciate if anyone could test this version with DXVA2 Native or CB on older Intel GPUs, if anyone has one? Like the 4500MHD? or Atoms?

Here is a sample which broke before this version, but works on SNB/IVB now:
http://files.1f0.de/samples/Madoka-002.mkv

Any feedback would be great, please confirm if its using DXVA2 on this sample, it will fallback to software if your Hardware and/or Driver doesn't support the proper H.264 spec (only on this sample, others with fewer reference frames will still use DXVA2 on those systems).

If you still have issues, a DXVA Checker report might be useful.

Tried the sample on Intel HD graphics (i5-460M 'Arrandale') - always falls back to software (which I suspect is the correct thing to do) and plays OK.

Tony

[nevcairiel]

Ok thanks, looks like the old Intel GPUs do not offer the same functionality as the SNB/IVB GPUs then (which was mistakenly simply ignored before :p)

[wanezhiling]

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=138396&uk=3558042035

VP62, lav cant work.

[owlsroost]

Ok thanks, looks like the old Intel GPUs do not offer the same functionality as the SNB/IVB GPUs then (which was mistakenly simply ignored before :p)

Here's the info from DXVA Checker.

Tony

[nevcairiel]

Here's the info from DXVA Checker.


I figured it would only have the Intel-specific ClearVideo H.264 variants, and not the generic ones, thanks.

[filler56789]

According to GSpot, LAV Video doesn't have "MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK", which apparently is required by MPC-HC for connecting an MPEG-2 decoder to Windows XP's DVD Navigator. Is that intentional? :)

[nevcairiel]

According to GSpot, LAV Video doesn't have "MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK", which apparently is required by MPC-HC for connecting an MPEG-2 decoder to Windows XP's DVD Navigator. Is that intentional? :)

But it does have it. If it seems missing, then re-register a recent version, in case you just overwrote it without registering. :p

[filler56789]

:stupid:

Thanks :thanks: for the clarification.

[nevcairiel]

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=138396&uk=3558042035

VP62, lav cant work.

Looks like this file is interlaced VP6, ffmpeg doesn't implement this.

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.54.1

LAV Splitter
- Improved seeking in MP4 files created by Windows Live Movie Maker

LAV Video
- Improved H.264 DXVA on recent Intel GPUs (Sandy/Ivy Bridge and newer Atoms)
- Fixed corruption with high number of reference frames ( > 11 )
- Fixed corruption in MBAFF interlaced content
- Fixed an issue that caused DVD menus/subtitles to stop working in DXVA2 Native mode in some situations


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-x64.zip)

So, it appears Intel does actually support full spec compliant H.264 DXVA on Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge and newer Atoms (just a slightly different part of the spec which is not used by NVIDIA/AMD), my implementation just wasn't 100% spec compliant, but now it is, and decoding on those CPUs/GPUs is now much better.
This change should not affect older Intel GPUs, except that i also added some checks to properly fallback to software decoding if you try to play a file with more than 11 reference frames on an old Intel GPU (which doesn't support this properly).

Anyway, as always please report any issues, especially regressions.

- nev

[06_taro]

nev, lavr has fixed the 8->2 channel mixing crash on x86_32 ( commit (http://git.libav.org/?p=libav.git;a=commit;h=7a9e65aceee678ee2677480579cb3b2208474140) ), and I've confirmed that reverting "avr: disable 8 -> 2 optimized mixing on 32-bit because of a crash" and compiling lavf with latest FFmpeg (merged with your branch) won't result in crash any more, so it should be safe to re-enable those asms.

[nevcairiel]

I know, i was the one that reported the crash to them in the first place. ;)
Will be changed when i next update, probably for the next release, unless i need to do small fixes again.

[06_taro]

I see.

edit: delete for misleading....

[nevcairiel]

I think you misread what i wrote. :p

[06_taro]

Oops. Yes I did.

[wanezhiling]

Looks like this file is interlaced VP6, ffmpeg doesn't implement this.

Ok thanks.
Almost all ffmpeg based players/decoders fail.


http://www.free-codecs.com/VP6_download.htm
Install it and it works now.


Since ffmpeg doesn't implement interlaced VP6, why not just disable it?:) Because I still wanna use lav video for progressive VP6.

[dansrfe]

plus minus at mpc hc

This doesn't work when I try it. Do I have to change something in the key bindings in MPC-HC? Do I have to change anything in LAV Audio?

[pie1394]

The new AMD/ATi graphics driver's quality is really terrible.

Unified Catalyst 12.10 Win7x64 on Radeon HD5450M (HP TouchSmart TM2-2102tx) seems broken with DXVA2 MPEG2 VLD mode. With this driver, dxva2n only works with H.264 VLD...

Unfortunately this is the only CAT 12.x driver works for switchable graphics modes and changing built-in LCD panel's color settings instead of GPU's. All AMD packed CAT 12.x driver sets seem to provide Intel graphics driver 9.x, which is incompatible with the 1st-gen Core i3-380UM. Otherwise I have to roll it back to old CAT 11.12 ...

MS-DTV decoder supports DXVA1 MPEG2 iDCT / MC modes, so it still get partial MPEG2 acceleration with this decoder.

The funny thing is that MPEG2_VLD is listed in Open Video Decoder profiles.


http://i.imgur.com/vjAJs.png (http://imgur.com/vjAJs)

http://i.imgur.com/NNXqQ.png (http://imgur.com/NNXqQ)

[wanezhiling]

Only UVD3.0 cards (HD6xxx and above) have MPEG2_VLD, which is not a secret in doom9, so what you see is common.

[Prinz]

Hi nevcairiel,

do I misunderstand the readme?

If multiple audio tracks match one language, the choice is based on the quality. The primary attribute here
is the number of channels, and after that the codec used. PCM and lossless codecs have a higher priority
then lossy codecs.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2wc1d9v.jpg

Should not the 5.1 track be selected instead of the stereo track in this case?

[nevcairiel]

Should not the 5.1 track be selected instead of the stereo track in this case?

The "[default]" flag overrides quality based decisions, only the language is checked.

[Prinz]

I thought so. Then the error is text in the readme, because the primary attribute is the default flag not the channel count.

[nevcairiel]

The text is correct, the primary attribute for quality is the channel count, it just doesn't mention the default flag in the audio-specific part. :p

[clsid]

DVD playback is b0rked with Overlay Mixer in MPC on Win7 here. Problem seems to be caused by a wrongly guessed stride (720 instead of 768).

If I uncomment the two lines above this one, then playback is OK:
DbgLog((LOG_TRACE, 10, L"-> We did not get a stride request, using width %d for stride", pBIH->biWidth));

(PS, yes I know overlay should not really be used on win7, I was just testing various stuff)

[pirlouy]

(PS, yes I know overlay should not really be used on win7, I was just testing various stuff)
Just for my curiosity, why Overlay should not be used ?
Before madVR 0.11, I used to use Overlay Mixer renderer, and it was working well.

[nevcairiel]

With overlay you're entirely at the mercy of the GPU, which is usually a horrible idea, even EVR does a better job then that. Also, Overlay has some other issues, window movement is sluggish and it forces Aero off. Its the most efficient renderer in regards to performance (if you dont want DXVA), but its also the most simple with basically zero features and zero control about what happens. That it turns Aero off is already annoying enough for me. ;)

From a technical standpoint, its also brain-dead stupid and doesn't implement DirectShow properly, so right now its broken again with LAV and probably needs some custom hacks to work again.

[pirlouy]

Aero forces Vsync and for that I think it sucks; unfortunately, if you disable Aero, there are visual glitches everywhere (+ poor performance), so disable it forever is not feasible. Fortunately Direct3D madVR allows to turn Aero Vsync off for video playback.

But I've heard your others points; thanks for the info. :)

[Mangix]

good thing madVR supports an overlay mode :P

[Anima123]

nevcairiel, I encountered an ogg file which cause trouble using the latest LAVFilters 0.54.1.

I have sent you splitted file with pm. Please take a look at it.

The ogg splitter with mpc-hc handles it very well though.

[Snowknight26]

Any chance you can enable VMNC support, nev?

[war59312]

LAV Video
- The DXVA2 Native decoder can now properly detect hardware support for video resolutions
- Allows 4K DXVA2 decoding on NVIDIA
- New options to control which resolutions are being handled by the hardware decoder (SD, HD and 4K/UHD)

Does that mean if the 4k option is selectable that my graphics card should support 4K DXVA2 decoding ?

Tested with the 4k videos from youtube. And MPC-HC info screen says "Not using DXVA".

Yes the new "UHD (4K)" option is checked in lav filter.

My graphics card is 1 Nvidia GeForce GTX 470.

List of graphics cards supported? Perhaps add to faq on front page?

Update: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs

So looks like my card does NOT do 4k. Darn!

If your card does not support 4k then the option in lav filter should be grayed out as to not make the user think their card supports 4k when it really does not.

[wanezhiling]

If your card does not support 4k then the option in lav filter should be grayed out as to not make the user think their card supports 4k when it really does not.
Good idea, duuno whether its hard for nev.

[nevcairiel]

good thing madVR supports an overlay mode :P

madVRs overlay mode has nothing to do with the "Overlay Mixer", completely different things.


If your card does not support 4k then the option in lav filter should be grayed out as to not make the user think their card supports 4k when it really does not.

Thats not possible. It will always show all options, the config does not have access to the decoder itself to check for such things (and some decoders like QuickSync or CUVID don't tell me such infos, they just fail at decoding 4K and trigger the software fallback). This will not change, it would be way too much effort for a visual fix.
Resolution support may also depend on which codec is used, so there is more combinations possible then the UI can show.

[bejita7]

Can you give approximate ETA for ordered chapters/editions support in LAV Splitter?

[malmsteen81]

i have a question, if i use dxva (native o CB) with ati card without yadif enabled, does ati deinterlace dvd or 1080i files?

thanks

[sneaker_ger]

i have a question, if i use dxva (native o CB) with ati card without yadif enabled, does ati deinterlace dvd or 1080i files?

Depends on the renderer, but on e.g. EVR or madVR with standard settings: yes, the graphics card will do the deinterlacing. This is done by the renderer and not by LAV, though.

[ajp_anton]

Had corrupted Intel-DXVA decoding a few days ago. Forgot which clip it was.
Found it today. Installed 54.1, no corruption. Perfect, thanks =).

[bugmen0t]

Hallo nev, is it possible that LAV Audio sometimes overflows when using mixing with clipping protection (very loud btw) and integer output formats (needed for some of my tools)? Normalization is fine but much quieter of course. BTW is dithering used when converting floats to integers? And do you use the mean or rms for normalization?

[manma]

Is there any reason to use DXVA2 over quicksync? Does it offer any performance improvements when used along with madvr?

[Mangix]

madVRs overlay mode has nothing to do with the "Overlay Mixer", completely different things.

It's similar in the sense that the presentation isn't copied back to main memory(hence no screenshots) which would mean less potential for glitching/stuttering. And aero can continue to be on. I guess less stutter is the reason to use Overlay so madVR may help there. Not too sure.

[Anleck]

Hello, a little advice needed please.
I can not get LAV splitter to work with dvd's. The problem started after some software upgrades (was perfect before).
LAV video is working with dvd, including Hardware acceleration, and LAV splitter is being used for just about everything except dvd's.

I have reinstalled drivers and LAV back to the last known working combination without success. I have tried the latest release of mpc-be and mpc-hc with 54.1 LAV filters. I also tried manually cleaning out the registry before reinstalling, but I keep coming back to the same point (everything fine except dvd's).

I am running Windows8dp and wish to avoid reinstalling (I had a disc image which conveniently disappeared)

If anyone could give me some registry values to check I would be grateful.

PS- I had individual vob's playing using LAVsplitter but could not get the disc as a whole to play fine.

[war59312]

If your card does not support 4k then the option in lav filter should be grayed out as to not make the user think their card supports 4k when it really does not.

Thats not possible. It will always show all options, the config does not have access to the decoder itself to check for such things (and some decoders like QuickSync or CUVID don't tell me such infos, they just fail at decoding 4K and trigger the software fallback). This will not change, it would be way too much effort for a visual fix.
Resolution support may also depend on which codec is used, so there is more combinations possible then the UI can show.ok no big deal. Thanks for the details.

[dansrfe]

When I'm playing a flac file it stops 2/3 of the through and MPC-HC says playing but nothing happens even when I play/pause the player.

[ryrynz]

When I'm playing a flac file it stops 2/3 of the through

No problems here (using 0.54.1)

[Weirdo]

I'm getting regular player crashes (DVBViewer + Media Center 18 w.custom video mode) with 0.54.1 after a couple of minutes. Not sure if it's LAV, reverted to 0.53.2 and it works fine for now. Win 8 x64, AMD 5670.

[nevcairiel]

I hope you updated LAV in MC properly, in its plugins folder? Otherwise the version mismatch of its integrated plugin and any stand-alone installed versions can easily result in crashes.

What kind of video? Everything? Anything special?
The only changes between 0.53.2 and 0.54.1 are either DVD or DXVA related, nothing much else. Do you use DXVA?

[Weirdo]

I hope you updated LAV in MC properly, in its plugins folder? Otherwise the version mismatch of its integrated plugin and any stand-alone installed versions can easily result in crashes.
No, haven't touched that. I thought MC does not use it's own plugin folder in custom mode (where you manually select Directshow filters), only in RO mode. DVBViewer crashes too, though.

What kind of video? Everything? Anything special?
The only changes between 0.53.2 and 0.54.1 are either DVD or DXVA related, nothing much else. Do you use DXVA?
Only tried regular DVB-T SD H.264 channels, using DXVA copy-back/native. It'll almost always crash after a while. I'll keep using 0.53.2 and post back if it crashes, too.

[nevcairiel]

It plays fine, and then without doing anything it would suddenly crash?
In Live TV only, in MC18 too? Or also file playback?

[Weirdo]

It plays fine, and then without doing anything it would suddenly crash?
In Live TV only, in MC18 too? Or also file playback?
I've noticed it on live tv only, on both players. Yes, a sudden crash. I'll have to reinstall 0.54 for more info, 0.53 seems to work fine.

[mindbomb]

i have a question about intel and hardware acceleration:
which gpus support quicksync?
which support dxva?
and which support the clearvideo thing only?
And what decoders support that?

[DragonQ]

which gpus support quicksync?
Sandy Bridge (Core ix-2xxx or equivalent Celeron/Pentium) or newer.

which support dxva?
Any of them with an IGP, AFAIK.

[nevcairiel]

The first Intel with DXVA was the G35/G965 chipset, plenty old.
Anything before Sandy Bridge only supports Intels special "ClearVideo" mode (except possibly for MPEG-2). Sandy Bridge and above add support for standard H.264 DXVA, but not for VC-1 (VC-1 only runs through QuickSync)

[wanezhiling]

About ClearVideo and QuickSync, you could click the link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Intel_graphics_processing_units#Fifth_generation

Note1: All Clarkdale and above GPUs support QuickSync decoding, Celeron and Pentium just dont support QuickSync encoding.
Note2: Egur's QuickSync decoder blocked Clarkdale, so you need a SNB CPU @ least.




About DXVA, click the link above again.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Intel_graphics_processing_units

Start from G33(third generation), MPEG2 has been fully supported, but no H.264 and VC-1.
Start from G45(fourth generation), H.264 and VC-1 are fully supported too, which is a "milestone" for Intel HD technology.
Note: Clarkdale/SNB/IVB(fifth/sixth/seventh generation) GPUs' VC-1 is a bit strange. Only CyberLink and ArcSoft have access to VC-1_VLD(full acceleration), other players/decoders stay VC-1_IDCT(partial acceleration).;)

[Warlock]

Guys, how dxva native has incompatibility problem with the xy-VSFilter? I did a test, every time I select the dxva native mode, I open any video, falls in software mode. The only format that works in dxva native when the xy-VSFilter is enabled, it is .MP4. I turned off the xy-VSFilter and activated the subtitle renderer of mpc-hc. After that, all videos began to be recognized by the dxva native mode, with the exception of 10-bit videos. How can I solve this problem between dxva native and xy-VSFilter?

[Keiyakusha]

Guys, how dxva native has incompatibility problem with the xy-VSFilter? I did a test, every time I select the dxva native mode, I open any video, falls in software mode. The only format that works in dxva native when the xy-VSFilter is enabled, it is .MP4. I turned off the xy-VSFilter and activated the subtitle renderer of mpc-hc. After that, all videos began to be recognized by the dxva native mode, with the exception of 10-bit videos. How can I solve this problem between dxva native and xy-VSFilter?

dxva native is not supposed to work if you use any additional filters, be it xy-vsfilter or anything else. if something tells you that it works, you likely misunderstood something or its just wrong. internal renderer and vsfilter is a different things, don't compare them.

[andybkma]

Win 7 64 bit, Zoom Player

nev, seemed to have stumbled upon a bug using LAV Splitter 54.1 where certain widescreen .mp4 or .m4v/avc vids don't display properly as they should (in widescreen format) but instead as a square fullscreen. Using a different mp4 splitter such as AVSplitter fixes the problem so can only assume the problem is with LAV Splitter. I went back four or five LAV versions to see if the problem persisted and it did so it seems this is not a new problem.

Sample link: http://filestay.com/p1ercgk44qcx/mp4_displays_in_fullscreen.m4v.html

[nevcairiel]

The file is working as intended, its just muxed wrong.
The MP4 file specifies a AR of 3:2, and the H264 stream an AR of 16:9. Which should be used for playback?

LAV Splitter will always output the 3:2 AR, because its a splitter, it reads the container values, not the stream values.
LAV Video (by default) trusts the AR from the Splitter in MP4 files, because most people do the muxing correct and the encoding wrong. The muxed value is also easier to fix then the encoded value in the video stream. There is an option to control how Stream AR is handled in the LAV Video options if you don't like it behaving correctly. :p

PS:
Please use better file hosts, that page is just horrible. Took about 5 minutes until the download started, and took like 40 minutes to download that 67mb file. Whats wrong with mediafire?

[wanezhiling]

How will Haali work in that condition?



There is an option to control how Stream AR is handled in the LAV Video options if you don't like it behaving correctly.
That option should be checked by default. I think 99% people want to watch 16:9 not 3:2/4:3

[Keiyakusha]

Never understood why container AR should take preference. The option to chose between them should be of course, as you not always can fix already broken files. But default should read stream info only. User should be forced to do one of the following: a) fix the existing stream b) reencode stream with correct settings c) temporarily change setting in LAV to read container ar d) temporarily redefine ar in player's playback settings
Plenty of options! And by using container AR they'll just never learn how to produce correct files. User should see that what they did is not correct. There is no way to make a warning in x264 or something as it have no idea what ar should be in which situation.
Personally I always use ar info only. BTW half-checked ar setting in LAV decoder fails with this file (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/110558786/Samples/LAV_AR_Test.mkv). But obviously works with reading ar from stream. There is no more correct way to produce this file, so why should broken files work and normal not?

[nevcairiel]

It doesn't "fail", you just produced a broken file, with conflicting information. In my experience (from users complaining and files i have seen), its far more common for the container AR to either: not be set at all (which is fine, and stream AR is used), or the container AR be set correctly, sometimes with a non-existant or broken stream AR, and the users expect it to be used for playback. Note that this only applies to MKV and MP4.

Using the container AR is perfectly valid, because not all video formats even have a stream AR.

If you think anything else is better, the option lets you configure it however you want.

That option should be checked by default. I think 99% people want to watch 16:9 not 3:2/4:3

For this sample, sure, i probably have a list of samples which only work properly with the current mode.
There have been plenty complains to other decoder authors for not adding an option to ignore stream AR, because they didn't want it to be used.

[sneaker_ger]

And by using container AR they'll just never learn how to produce correct files. User should see that what they did is not correct.

Then people will start producing files with wrong container AR. There is no right or wrong here.

BTW half-checked ar setting in LAV decoder fails with this file (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/110558786/Samples/LAV_AR_Test.mkv). But obviously works with reading ar from stream.

Yes, it does exactly what it is supposed to do. I think changing AR is not allowed in Matroska anyways. (Or was it changing resolution?)

[Keiyakusha]

It doesn't "fail", you just produced a broken file, with conflicting information.

Since when variable ar is broken? Any two valid appended h264 streams give us valid h264 stream. Stream not breaks mkv and will be spitted by any compliant splitter. Decoder is the one who fails here.

the container AR be set correctly, sometimes with a non-existant or broken stream AR, and the users expect it to be used for playback
I gave 4 options to deal with this case. There is no reason to hide an issue instead of making them fix it.

hen people will start producing files with wrong container AR. There is no right or wrong here.
I don't really understand why. Lets assume that now the do it right, why would they stop doing it?

Yes, it does exactly what it is supposed to do. I think changing AR is not allowed in Matroska anyways. (Or was it changing resolution?)
Resolution is constant, ar is different. It doesn't needs to be supported. ar info exists in stream, martoska ar perfectly fine to be used as fallback.

[nevcairiel]

It doesn't matter what you think is the correct way to produce files anyway. The defaults in LAV are choosen to be correct with as many files as possible, based on empirecal evidence based on user complaints and sample files i gathered over the years. A correctly encoded and muxed file would usually work, broken in any direction needs some kind of compromise.

[sneaker_ger]

I don't really understand why. Lets assume that now the do it right, why would they stop doing it?

Currently: LAV uses container AR by default and people make broken files without using the correct bitstream AR
Your solution: LAV uses bitstream AR by default and people will make files without using the correct container AR

Whatever LAV does, people will produce broken files.

And who is to define that bitstream AR takes preference over container AR anyways?

[Keiyakusha]

The defaults in LAV are choosen to be correct with as many files as possible
I see. Next step would be to add denoising, edge enchancing and various other things that makes files better than they are. Just like in every second crappy payware out there.

Your solution: LAV uses bitstream AR by default and people will make files without using the correct container AR
There is no way to produce incorrect container ar unless you explicitly set it incorrectly. These users just need to RTFM. On the other hand by not setting stream ar it produces incorrect result.

[nevcairiel]

There is also no way to set a wrong stream ar unless you explictly set a wrong one. I fail to see the point of the argument.

[wanezhiling]

For this sample, sure, i probably have a list of samples which only work properly with the current mode.
There have been plenty complains to other decoder authors for not adding an option to ignore stream AR, because they didn't want it to be used.
Adding an option for users is pretty nice, but what the default setting should be annoys me. Is LAV video decoder the first one to do that? :p

[Keiyakusha]

There is also no way to set a wrong stream ar unless you explictly set a wrong one. I fail to see the point of the argument.
What I mean is setting container ar is the step that you can't skip. It is mandatory element. But it is possible to skip setting stream ar, which is what often happens. In case of anamorphic encode not setting stream ar equals to setting it wrong. Edit: but this was just answer to sneaker_ger, it wasn't meant to support my previous posts about ar.

[sneaker_ger]

Adding an option for users is pretty nice, but what the default setting should be annoys me. Is LAV video decoder the first one to do that? :p

Not really. Haali's splitter would always use the container AR, too, for example. (It would even manipulate bitstream AR to match container AR in real-time)
Also, the option is already there. We are not talking about adding it.

[nevcairiel]

What I mean is setting container ar is the step that you can't skip.

Sure you can, container AR isn't really a mandatory element, in MKV at least, not sure about MP4, but i bet its not mandatory there either.

Anyway, this is all about what default option is selected. If you think its wrong, make your case with reasonable arguments that can be followed and understood, get some real world data to back it up, and i'll see about changing it.
I won't change it because one of you guys "thinks" it should be different, give me a good reason to break playback of files that started working when i set the default to this.

[sneaker_ger]

Sure you can, container AR isn't really a mandatory element, in MKV at least

If the elements don't exist, the Matroska specs will mandate that DisplayWidth=PixelWidth and DisplayHeight=PixelHeight (if DisplayUnit==0, which is its default value). So not setting them for anamorphic streams is a very bad idea, even though these elements might not be strictly speaking "mandatory".

[Keiyakusha]

Sure you can, container AR isn't really a mandatory element, in MKV at least, not sure about MP4, but i bet its not mandatory there either.

Anyway, this is all about what default option is selected. If you think its wrong, make your case with reasonable arguments that can be followed and understood, get some real world data to back it up, and i'll see about changing it.
I won't change it because one of you guys "thinks" it should be different, give me a good reason to break playback of files that started working when i set the default to this.

Hmm maybe I confused it with resolution that is not "display". But I think any software sets something, if it is not specified it makes is equal to resolution. Anyway the point was that if now user produces file with correct container ar, there is no much reason for him to stop doing so. This is offtopic really lets move on.

I'm not really asking to change the defaults, either way it doesn't really affects me. I just believe always the root of the problem should be fixed. As for arguments, I believe I made one. There is no reason the file I posted shouldn't work. It doesn't breaks mkv, any valid splitter will be ok with it. If mkv forbids that, it should always force ar to be removed from the stream.

[nevcairiel]

It doesn't breaks mkv, any valid splitter will be ok with it.

Haali will most likely not work with that, it always enforces the container AR, even modifies the bitstream to do so. I wonder if its still considered a "valid" splitter. :p

[sneaker_ger]

If mkv forbids that, it should always force ar to be removed from the stream.

Mkvmerge actually did just that for a long time, until people complained about files not working on their broken players.

[Keiyakusha]

Yes I know, but I think anything that haali does "on the fly" or what mkvmerge did is not really defined in mkv specification, isn't it? On the other hand thing about ar in h264 stream (well not only ar) is defined in h264 specs.
Also it is arguable that what haali does is not a bug. And to be honest right now common opinion is that haali is broken. Not because of AR though. ^__^

[Weirdo]

The 0.54.1 crash is probably a false alarm, after reinstalling it one more time, it's ok.

A question on the splitter: I'm trying to play .mov DVC-PRO HD files (sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?mc9h4k985y31lku)). With mpc-hc's internal MP4/MOV filter, I get both audio and video (LAV video reports: CDVH 960x720). I have the Raylight Decoder (http://dvfilm.com/raylight/decoder/index.htm) installed, which is probably why the video plays fine. When I enable the LAV Splitter (and source) there is no video. Is this unsupported?

[sneaker_ger]

Yes I know, but I think anything that haali does "on the fly" or what mkvmerge did is not really defined in mkv specification, isn't it?

Well, the mkv spec only defines how to read the format and it says that AR is to be derived from the DisplayWidth and DisplayHeight elements. Nothing more and nothing less. Of course it doesn't say anything about how this has to be implemented in e.g. DirectShow.

[DragonQ]

I don't have any data regarding whether stream ARs or container ARs are more often correct but surely container AR should be preferred, simply because it's so easy to change. Just remux with MKVMerge or TSMuxer, etc. Fixing stream ARs is a nightmare for most file types, meaning you usually need to re-encode, which is slow and results in a loss of quality. Also, I've seen incorrect stream AR in TV streams, so it's not like it's only amateur content creators that get this wrong.

In an ideal world, the container and stream AR would always match but this isn't always the case so container AR should be preferred by default. If you happen to have a lot of files with incorrect container ARs but correct stream ARs, and you don't want to spend time fixing them, then you can change the setting.

[06_taro]

Ideally a good encoder should set both stream ar and container ar correctly. If one doesn't do so, container ar is supposed to override stream ar, or else why is container ar needed? If one sample has correct stream ar but incorrect container ar, I think it is that particular sample which should be blamed, not a splitter or decoder which behaves reasonably, and even offers an option to let you choose another behaviour, although not by default.

btw stream ar is still editable without re-encoding by some tools with bitstream filter, like mp4box and roozhou's FFmpeg.

[dansrfe]

In what case would it be beneficial to use Intel QuickSync or DXVA2 to decode? I'm confused about when QuickSync should be used and when regular CPU decoding is used. Same thing for DXVA2 vs CUVID vs CPU decoding.

[nevcairiel]

Hardware decoders usually use less power, because they are running in fixed-function hardware and not in general-purpose hardware like the CPU.
Additionally, some slower/older CPUs may have issues with complex formats (especially VC-1 interlaced requires quite some CPU because the decoder isn't well optimized for multi-threading)

[dansrfe]

So if I have a GTX 670 and i7 3770K I should be using CUVID or QuickSync? DXVA2 is mainly for ATI users right?

[nevcairiel]

DXVA2 Native uses the least power, and if you don't need software post-processing like ffdshow raw or VSFilter, you can use it and benefit the most from it. If you use such post-processing, i would recommend either CUVID or DXVA2-CB, as thats most likely your active GPU, and QuickSync only works if the Intel GPU is active.

[egur]

@Nev
You can test for specific capabilities (fourcc, resolution, etc.) by calling the TestMediaType function on IQuickSync.

As for VC-1 DXVA2 support on Intel's iGPU by CyberLink and Arcsoft, they might also use the Intel Media SDK. I didn't check the players but at least one other product uses it.
I'll ask internally if there's a reason why this capability isn't enumerated properly.

[Carpo]

what would people suggest for someone who has a 560ti and a i7 2600 (getting a newer card is not an option) would it be the same as above - CUVID or DXVA2-CB ?

[fagoatse]

what would people suggest for someone who has a 560ti and a i7 2600 (getting a newer card is not an option) would it be the same as above - CUVID or DXVA2-CB ?

why bother with HW accel with such a rig?

[clsid]

To summarize some of my findings with testing DVD playback:

Problem 1: Messed up video if stride was guessed. Can be solved by using the calculated stride value.
Problem 2: Black screen with Overlay Mixer and interlaced video. Can be solved by never setting the interlaced flag in output mediatype when connected to Overlay Mixer. I don't think that Overlay is capable of doing interlacing anyway.
Problem 3: No DVD menu in WMP11 on XP. I have verified that CLAVVideoSubtitleInputPin::CheckMediaType is never called. So it seems the graph builder somehow doesn't like a dynamically created pin. Perhaps you can implement a workaround where LAV Video takes the initiative to connect the pin to the DVD Navigator? This should only be needed for the combo XP + wmplayer.exe/ehshell.exe.

[kasper93]

@nevcairiel
LAV Video Decoder crash on loop of the dvd menu with madVR. Can be reproduced if we hover on other button before the loop. Or just when madVR debug info is opened (crtl+j). Work fine with ffdshow...

Dump: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/LAV/dmp.7z
DVD menu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/LAV/DVD.7z

[nevcairiel]

@nevcairiel
LAV Video Decoder crash on loop of the dvd menu with madVR. Can be reproduced if we hover on other button before the loop. Or just when madVR debug info is opened (crtl+j). Work fine with ffdshow...

Dump: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/LAV/dmp.7z
DVD menu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/LAV/DVD.7z

I can't reproduce any crash, tried hovering over buttons, turning on madVRs debug OSD, all seems fine.
Its also a dump without heap info, those are only marginally useful.

[kasper93]

WOW, that is weird. This crash seems to be more random then I thought. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't :| I will try to gather more info and tell you if I get something solid.

[Pomegranate]

Hi!

I have a question about using LAV Audio + Kernel streaming via Reclock. I get heavy distortion with 32 bit floating point. So, I've unticked this option and LAV automatically does 32-bit FP to 24 bit integer, which is really nice. Do you recommend doing it this way, as opposed to outputting 32-bit FP to Reclock and letting Reclock do the conversion to 24 bit?

I also used eac3to to generate 32-bit integer and 64-bit integer wav files. The 32-bit integer file plays correctly via LAV audio + Reclock, meaning the sound card can decode 32-bit integer PCM. LAV audio reads the 64-bit integer as 32-bit FP, I'm not really sure what to make of that.

In any case, what do you recommend? Also, would there be any audible difference between 32-bit and 24-bit representations of a lossy encoded file?

[Anleck]

My problem (see post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1603164#post1603164)) persists. I reinstalled with Windows 8 pro 6.2.9200 - all freashly downloaded drivers and software.

On a side note media performance is fantastic. Just need to kill this one little gremlin.

E7500 (2933Mhz) | ASRock P45XE | 4G Patriot PSD22G80026 800Mhz @ 800Mhz (6-6-6-18 CR2) / Dual Channel
EVGA GTS 450 (1G GDDR5) | Nvidia 310.64 x64 | DirectX 11.0 | WDDM 1.2
Windows 8 Pro x64 6.2.9200 ( HPET | AHCI )
MPC-BE 1.0.3.1 x64 | LAV filters 0.54.1 x64

[dansrfe]

Pomegranate,

I feed 32 bit floating point into ReClock which dithers it down to 24 bit integer and IMO it sounds the best. Do you get the distortion on all files or certain files only?

[Superb]

My problem (see post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1603164#post1603164)) persists. I reinstalled with Windows 8 pro 6.2.9200 - all freashly downloaded drivers and software.

On a side note media performance is fantastic. Just need to kill this one little gremlin.

E7500 (2933Mhz) | ASRock P45XE | 4G Patriot PSD22G80026 800Mhz @ 800Mhz (6-6-6-18 CR2) / Dual Channel
EVGA GTS 450 (1G GDDR5) | Nvidia 310.64 x64 | DirectX 11.0 | WDDM 1.2
Windows 8 Pro x64 6.2.9200 ( HPET | AHCI )
MPC-BE 1.0.3.1 x64 | LAV filters 0.54.1 x64LAV Splitter is not a DVD Navigator.
LAV Video works together w/ the Microsoft DVD Navigator (comes w/ Windows 7; not sure about 8).

[Anleck]

Ok, thank-you Superb.


Swear when I checked the filter list on DVDs it was LAV all the way - I must be wrong.


A big thanks to Nev, LAV filters + HPET have made the biggest and best difference to my media experince.

[dansrfe]

Does madVR automatically turn on HPET or does the user have to issue a command to turn it on?

[ryrynz]

C'mon Dan, you've been here long enough to know to use the search and google things.

The last few madVR versions already set the timer resolution to best available, so that tool isn't needed.

Theoretically using HPET only in the OS via useplatformclock=true could improve playback if your other CPU based timer is unstable. By default Window 7 switches and syncs between HPET and TSC as needed.

Go here (http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1075781-tweak-enable-hpet-in-bios-and-os-for-better-performance-and-fps/) for the tool to test it and for instructions, it may not make much of a difference though or it may even just cause issues.

[Anleck]

I don't use MadVR.

To use Hpet you must enable it in BIOS then enter these commands into cmd:

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true


Win8 add this command:

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

Restart...

Check using WinTimerTester - a value of 14.31818 MHz means Hpet is properly enabled.

I find media playback to appear smoother with Hpet enabled. Results may differ.

[romulous]

Hi nev,

I think I may have a similar issue to andybkma from a couple of pages back (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1603350&postcount=13236). Here is the test clip:
http://www.ausgamers.com/files/details/html/45878

I don't know how you checked the container AR of andybkma's test file, so I can't check this myself - I hoped you might be able to take a look at it.

Zoom Player shows the video in a 1280x1280 window (correct is actually 1280x720). Filter chain is LAV all the way through (splitter, audio decoder, video decoder), and changing the 'Use Stream Aspect Ratio' option in LAV Video does nothing.

I asked Blight about the file, and he said to post it here, as he couldn't see that Zoom is doing anything wrong. He also said to post a screenshot of MediaInfo (which is below) and to mention that the video is reported at a different resolution to the player (he gets 1280x1280 as the source video resolution as well as the aspect ratio). MediaInfo screenshot (this shows the stream AR I think):
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3074/snap033bo.png

MPC-HC shows it correctly, as it uses the MPC splitter. Haali's splitter also shows it correctly. Well, correctly as in "I know the video is meant to be 1280x720" - not necessarily as in "correctly according to how the file has been encoded".

Thanks!

[nevcairiel]

Media Info shows the AR, the "Display Aspect Ratio" is the container AR, which is 1:1, resulting in 1280x1280. "Original Display Aspect Ratio" is the Stream AR, 16:9. If you set LAV Video to always use the stream AR, it should work. Note that changing this option may require restarting playback.

Edit:
On a second look with the actual file, it seems like ffmpeg fails to read the Stream AR (if there actually is one), which is why it never works. I'll try to take a look when i get home.
The MP4 Container AR is actually encoded as 9:16 PAR, which results in 1:1 DAR, looks like someone flipped those.

Edit2:
The "aspect_ratio_idc" in the bitstream is "0", which means "Unspecified" according to the H264 spec. Not sure there really is a stream AR afterall. Maybe the mp4 demuxer fails at reading the container AR and inverts it?

[wanezhiling]

It seems there are plenty of "Stream AR correctly" files in real world.:p

[nevcairiel]

But the file doesn't have any Stream AR. :p
Looks like the problem is that the MP4 Stream Header has width and height both set to 720, which causes it to make it a 1:1 AR

MPC-HCs MP4 splitter and Haali seem to ignore that info and only use an explicit "PASP" atom for aspect ratio. But i'm quite sure i actually had files where this was needed to get the correct container AR. Broken files are broken?

[Aleksoid1978]

But the file doesn't have any Stream AR. :p
Looks like the problem is that the MP4 Stream Header has width and height both set to 720, which causes it to make it a 1:1 AR

All ok with MP4 Stream header - in avc1 ATOM header store width & height = 1280x720. There is no pasp atom(store Aspect Ratio). And - we heave 16x9 AR for this stream.

[nevcairiel]

The "tkhd" atom has stream width/height, which are both 720, clearly not correct, and some muxers use the tkhd width/height to signal aspect ratio.

[Aleksoid1978]

The "tkhd" atom has stream width/height, which are both 720, clearly not correct, and some muxers use the tkhd width/height to signal aspect ratio.

I think video stream data - width, height & AR must have more priority that 'tkhd'. But - it does not matter :)

[wanezhiling]

Good sample, PotPlayer failed too, MPC-HC/BE work correctly.

[Pomegranate]

Pomegranate,

I feed 32 bit floating point into ReClock which dithers it down to 24 bit integer and IMO it sounds the best. Do you get the distortion on all files or certain files only?

It's a sound card driver limitation when using Kernel streaming. The card plays 8, 16, 24 and 32 bit integer pcm perfectly fine. I will try your method and see if there's any difference.

[nevcairiel]

I think video stream data - width, height & AR must have more priority that 'tkhd'. But - it does not matter :)

But the video stream in this case doesn't have an AR.
I got a sample where it was exactly done the way i described above, the "tkhd" values were used to specify the AR, and LAV and Haali got it right, and MPC-HC splitter wrong, sadly the sample link died.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1581615#post1581615

[wanezhiling]

But the video stream in this case doesn't have an AR.
I got a sample where it was exactly done the way i described above, the "tkhd" values were used to specify the AR, and LAV and Haali got it right, and MPC-HC splitter wrong, sadly the sample link died.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1581615#post1581615
http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=156957&uk=3558042035
:)

[hoborg]

Nev, is possible to add support for *.dff audio files?
Samples here: http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

[nevcairiel]

When asking such questions, the first thing you need to ask yourself: Can ffmpeg play this?
If the answer is yes, you may ask here, if the answer is no, you can request the feature from the ffmpeg developers.

[hoborg]

When asking such questions, the first thing you need to ask yourself: Can ffmpeg play this?
If the answer is yes, you may ask here, if the answer is no, you can request the feature from the ffmpeg developers.

I have no idea if ffmpeg can decode such format, that is why i am asking the true master ;)

[JEEB]

I have no idea if ffmpeg can decode such format, that is why i am asking the true master ;)
Just so you don't ask people in vain in the future: Both ffmpeg and libav have such pages, and ffmpeg's is here (https://ffmpeg.org/general.html#Audio-Codecs).

[nevcairiel]

AFAIK, DFF is the format used on SACD, right? I don't think ffmpeg can decode this.

[Nekomata]

can i use this with madvr?

[DragonQ]

can i use this with madvr?
Yesss.

[6233638]

Win8 add this command:

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yesYou should not do this unless you have a specific reason to, as it disables the new interrupt scheduling built into Windows 8.

What it will do, is give you nice looking DPC latency results from tools which were not designed with Windows 8 in mind.

Most people don't seem to actually understand what DPC latency is, and assume that lower values must always better, regardless of what you're doing to achieve them. If you are below 250µs DPC latency, you should not need to do any kind of tweaking to reduce it, and it's only once DPC latency gets above 500µs or so that problems actually start to manifest. Old tools will show results over 1000µs in Windows 8 because things are handled differently than they were in Windows 7 - those numbers are not comparable.

[Anleck]

6233638 is correct,

disabledynamictick is not needed (relates to an old bug - pre win8 final). I have reset this and everything is fine , Hpet working.

Anyhow my mention of hpet has derailed this thread enough -back to LAV

[romulous]

The "tkhd" atom has stream width/height, which are both 720, clearly not correct, and some muxers use the tkhd width/height to signal aspect ratio.

So the file itself is encoded in a slightly non-standard way, which is why it shows as 1280x1280 (and not 1280x720)?

Oh, and Blight wanted me to ask if you have any plans on making LAV react like the MPC filter with regards to AR in this case? I'm guessing that is the same answer as per here?
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1603371&postcount=13243

[itsonlyjustincase]

Hi,

I'm on WIN8 and WIN7 (dual boot)
I have latest Lav filters 0.54.1
I have asus UX32VD with Nvidia 620M (CUDA compatible)

I'm using Djing software call Serato video (www.serato.com). It can be downloaded here :

http://serato.com/scratchlive/downloads/win

then the video pluggin

http://serato.com/video/downloads/win

I have setted LAV Video and Audio as default thanks to win7dsfilterTweaker

When i play HD videos for example 1080p h264 AAC (or 720p) in mp4, i can't get the Hardware acceleration to work. it always says video decoder <inactive> so i have poor performance. I have tested with graphfilter that LAV is really the default decoder and it is. Is there a way to force the GPU using in LAV whenever it would detect a H264 file played ? I'm loosing my hair with that ! Lav works perfectly well but i can't get it to work as i want with my dj soft. I'm ready to pay for that :p

[nevcairiel]

If it says <inactive>, then you're looking at the wrong properties page. You need to access the properties page of the currently active decoder, which not many players actually support. If you just open it through the start menu, you get a fresh copy, which just isn't decoding anything - so <inactive>. If its working, it will show something other then inactive. :p
Best way to try to figure out if HW decoding is working if you don't have access to the correct properties page, is to simply compare CPU usage between the modes.

[Superb]

DirectShowSpy...

[DragonQ]

Best way to try to figure out if HW decoding is working if you don't have access to the correct properties page, is to simply compare CPU usage between the modes.
GPU usage also (using GPU-Z).

[itsonlyjustincase]

Thank you all for the replies. So how can i make my video player to use LAV decoder ? I want to force the GPU acceleration. It support ffdshow for example but not the dxva :s

[filler56789]

"This off-topic is morally indefensible, but absolutely necessary". :rolleyes:

At last, we are on page 666. :devil: :D

[wanezhiling]

GPU usage also (using GPU-Z).

DXVA Checker (http://bluesky23.yu-nagi.com/en/DXVAChecker.html) --> Trace Log

Option: only check DXVA2_DecodeDeviceCreated

Click Start, run media player and play video, Click Refresh.

;) This is always 100% correct way to figure out if HW decoding is working.

[dansrfe]

Is there a way to force positioning of PGS subtitles or is that an MPC-HC thing? I posted in MPC-HC's thread but the request just got ignored.

[nevcairiel]

Is there a way to force positioning of PGS subtitles or is that an MPC-HC thing? I posted in MPC-HC's thread but the request just got ignored.

PGS subtitles have a position in their bitstream, its unlikely for any subtitle renderer to allow you to override this position. In any case, its something for the renderer to do, the source just outputs them as-is from the file.

[vad74]

I use XBMC+DSPlayer with LAV decoder on Intel Core i3-2330M proc. In old version of LAV (0.50.5) in Full Screen mode dont work QuikSync. I download ZIP file with last LAV (0.54.1) , and just unzip all files to .../dsplayer/ folder. But QuikSync dont work in FSE. I try play many different H.264 files. Dont. Its bedly.
I have some H.264 files which play in old LAV via DXVA with big artifacts. I tryed use DXVA with new LAV. Super! All my "bedly" files play excellent in new LAV. Thanks! Now I use DXVA on Intel.

[nevcairiel]

Indeed, DXVA on Intel (at least for H.264 and MPEG2) is now much more stable.

[itsonlyjustincase]

DXVA Checker (http://bluesky23.yu-nagi.com/en/DXVAChecker.html) --> Trace Log

Option: only check DXVA2_DecodeDeviceCreated

Click Start, run media player and play video, Click Refresh.

;) This is always 100% correct way to figure out if HW decoding is working.

Thanks i'll try it tonight

[nevcairiel]

Hallo nev, is it possible that LAV Audio sometimes overflows when using mixing with clipping protection (very loud btw) and integer output formats (needed for some of my tools)? Normalization is fine but much quieter of course. BTW is dithering used when converting floats to integers? And do you use the mean or rms for normalization?

Clipping protection should be impossible to overflow.
Do you have a sample file where this can be observed?

Dithering is currently not performed, but may be an option in the future.

PS:
It doesn't do "normalization", it just normalizes the matrix it uses for mixing, which is a completely different thing. A normalized matrix just means that the total sum of the mixing factors for every output channel does not exceed 1.0, so every channel is reduced so that the sum of channels fits into 1.0

[madshi]

FWIW, dithering is highly recommended, when reducing audio bitdepth in any way. It's just as important for audio processing as it is for video. If you need information on how to do proper TPDF dithering, feel free to PM me. But you probably already know how it works, anyway...

[nevcairiel]

I usually don't recommend using LAV to convert the bitdepth. I only added support for this to allow playback with broken components that don't accept some special format. Most notably a bunch of audio drivers on XP, which fail on float audio. Ideally you would convert float to 24-bit int, which is a conversion case where i would argue that you don't hear the last few bits anyway ;)

Anyhow, a dithering feature is currently being developed for the avresample library, which i can then use for these conversions, if someone really needs to convert.

We've come a long way anyway, just 2-3 years ago, we would get 16-bit integer undithered from ffdshow or mpc-hc decoders.... :p

[madshi]

I'm not sure if audio hardware can really do float audio, I rather doubt it. I guess if you feed float audio to the audio renderer, probably the audio renderer or the OS or the audio driver is internally converting that to integer at some point, and I'm not convinced that this is done "properly" (with dithering etc). So I think it's a better idea to define a max audio output bitdepth (e.g. 16bit or 24bit integer) and then convert all floating point stuff to that by using proper dithering. Ok, in an ideal world, the audio renderer would do that. But we don't really have a reliable audio renderer at the moment which we could trust with such a thing...

Of course you're right that ffdshow and mpc-hc decoders were using undithered output not long ago. But IIRC, eac3to *always* used proper dithering, right from the beginning (> 5 years ago).

[nevcairiel]

At least the Windows 7 and above DirectSound audio renderers do a proper job at conversion.

[madshi]

They probably do, if they do the conversion. I'm just wondering whether they might pass the float audio to the audio hardware driver and then maybe it's up to the audio hardware driver to do the float -> int conversion. I've really no idea, though, just shooting in the wild here...

[nevcairiel]

DirectSound does all the required conversion to audio-hardware compatible formats. In XP, that was different, which is why XP has plenty issues with float audio if you have broken drivers.

[itsonlyjustincase]

Thanks i'll try it tonight

It doesn't want to recognize my geforce 620m even if i set the nvidia gpu as default for all application. It recognize only my intel hd 4000 :(

[nevcairiel]

Then use the QuickSync decoder, its faster then CUVID anyway.

[madshi]

DirectSound does all the required conversion to audio-hardware compatible formats.
Ah ok, didn't know that...

[itsonlyjustincase]

Then use the QuickSync decoder, its faster then CUVID anyway.

My problem is that my serato software doesn't work with the intel hd 4000 so i have to use and force the geforce 620m

[wanezhiling]

It doesn't want to recognize my geforce 620m even if i set the nvidia gpu as default for all application. It recognize only my intel hd 4000 :(

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1603351&postcount=15891

[itsonlyjustincase]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1603351&postcount=15891

Thanks for this man !!!


So i should rename DXVAChecker.exe to DXVAPlayerChecker.exe ?

[itsonlyjustincase]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1603351&postcount=15891

I meant that DXVAChecker doesn't want to detect my onbard nvidia card. It detects only the integrated intel hd 4000

[Shark007]

I meant that DXVAChecker doesn't want to detect my onbard nvidia card. It detects only the integrated intel hd 4000

The laptops' display uses the HD4000 iGPU.
You need to connect a display device to the HDMI output, to use the Nvidia GPU.

[wanezhiling]

You missed that. DXVAChecker always detects integrated GPU, ignore it.

Rename your media player, then the player could run in "NVIDIA GPU" mode after being set in NVIDIA control panel.

And then:
DXVA Checker (http://bluesky23.yu-nagi.com/en/DXVAChecker.html) --> Trace Log tab

Option: only check DXVA2_DecodeDeviceCreated

Click Start, run media player and play video, Click Refresh.

You will see if HW decoding is working.

[itsonlyjustincase]

You missed that. DXVAChecker always detects integrated GPU, ignore it.

Rename your media player, then the player could run in "NVIDIA GPU" mode after being set in NVIDIA control panel.

And then:


You mean ignoring what ? (sorry i'm french). My program serato and seratovideo are already set in the nvidia control panel to use nvidia card and do use it. The problem is the dxva checker program

[wanezhiling]

You could play a VC-1 video (Use LAV DXVA2 native) to figure out if your NVIDIA 620m is working.


For example: I used PotPlayer with LAV DXVA2 native.

http://i.imgur.com/c0mlm.png
It indicates that my PotPlayer is running under NVIDIA GPU because of ModeVC1_VLD2010.

If iGPU is active, you just couldn't see such information in this trace log tab.:)

[itsonlyjustincase]

You could play a VC-1 video (Use LAV DXVA2 native) to figure out if your NVIDIA 620m is working.


For example: I used PotPlayer with LAV DXVA2 native.

http://i.imgur.com/c0mlm.png
It indicates that my PotPlayer is running under NVIDIA GPU because of ModeVC1_VLD2010.

If iGPU is active, you just couldn't see such information in this trace log tab.:)

Lool thank you very much for the time you've taken to show me an example. I have understood how it work. My problem is that if you go in the first tab u'll see you nvidia card detected.In my case it's the iGPU which is detected

[wanezhiling]

My problem is that if you go in the first tab u'll see you nvidia card detected.In my case it's the iGPU which is detected
http://i.imgur.com/TVISk.jpg
Intel HD3000? No, its my NVIDIA GT520M.;)


http://i.imgur.com/n8kdy.jpg
This is the real Intel HD3000.:)

[itsonlyjustincase]

http://i.imgur.com/TVISk.jpg
Intel HD3000? No, its my NVIDIA GT520M.;)


http://i.imgur.com/n8kdy.jpg
This is the real Intel HD3000.:)

Ok i get it. So after testing it means my serato soft isn't using DXVA altough it is set in lav decoder options :s

[itsonlyjustincase]

I find it weird as perhaps your hd 3000 can play vc1 and supports dxva2

[itsonlyjustincase]

ANd looking at the print screen it does actually ! No man it isn't your geforce which is in use i promise

[CommonMortal]

Hi, i am new to LAV filters (have been using FFDshow until now).

I was wondering if someone could help me a bit with configuration.

1) My VGA is ATI HD 6570. Is it OK to choose "DVXA native" as hardware acceleration? Seems to work, i just don't know if "copy-back" is better.


2) I encode my Blue Rays for convenience reasons to x264 with Dolby ProLogic II AC3 stereo audio. My audio card also supports Dolby Headphone, is it's good combination. What settings should i use in Lav audio filter?

In particular.
What do i put in "Convert Output to Standard Channel layouts?"
Tick enable mixing to stereo or not?
Set "Matrix encoding" to Dolby Prologic II?
Should i do something with "Don't mix stereo sources?"
Something else?


Thank you in advance.

[DragonQ]

Grrrrrrrr, I can't get smooth video playback on my brand new laptop with any combination of software decoding, DXVA2, EVR, MadVR, Intel HD 4000 or nVidia NVS 5200m. Both CPU and GPU usage are nowhere near maxed out (<30%) yet I get frame drops all over the place.

Why can't anything ever be simple? :(

EDIT: Bloody Power Options...:rolleyes:

[6233638]

Grrrrrrrr, I can't get smooth video playback on my brand new laptop with any combination of software decoding, DXVA2, EVR, MadVR, Intel HD 4000 or nVidia NVS 5200m. Both CPU and GPU usage are nowhere near maxed out (<30%) yet I get frame drops all over the place.

Why can't anything ever be simple? :(

EDIT: Bloody Power Options...:rolleyes:The one "advantage" to using CUVID for decoding, is that it forces the GPU into its maximum power state.

This might be helpful if you don't want to mess with your system's general power saving options, though I'm surprised that it's not happening as required. (on my system if CPU/GPU load goes past a certain threshold, it changes power state)

[DragonQ]

I'm using the HD 4000 for now - I usually change power options anyway. When using full screen, I can have my preferred settings (DXVA2 Native & Bicubic 75 + AR chroma & Jinc3 + AR luma), but I have to disable chroma anti-ringing when not running full-screen. It may be that I can leave the anti-ringing enabled with the NVS 5200M but I kinda doubt it - we'll see once the freezing is fixed! ;)

[LoopinFool]

It would be great if LAV Video Splitter would support RTMP URLs with additional arguments (spaces) in them.
ffmpeg is able to read from RTMP streams like USTREAM delivers. Here's an example, which is the TWiT Live stream:
rtmp://ustreamlivefs.fplive.net/ustream3live-live/ playpath=stream_live_1_1_1524 swfUrl=http://static-cdn1.ustream.tv/swf/live/viewer.rsl:96.swf swfVfy=1 live=1

I don't know if this requires parsing the URL and passing the arguments through an API to the library or what. I just know it works as-is through ffmpeg via the command-line.

Simpler RTSP URLs that go directly to an Axis camera work pretty well. I am seeing some artifacts that don't appear in VLC connected to the same camera. Perhaps they are buffer underruns or missed UDP packets or something.

- LoopinFool

[wanezhiling]

I find it weird as perhaps your hd 3000 can play vc1 and supports dxva2

Why I ask you to test VC-1 with LAV DXVA2 native mode, because Intels VC-1 is special, only ArcSoft and CyberLinks DXVA decoders support ModeVC1_VLD_ClearVideo, LAV DXVA2 native does not support, LAV will just fall back to sw mode when playing a VC-1 file.

If you see ModeVC1_VLD or ModeVC1_VLD2010 in trace log tab when playing a VC-1 file, it indicates that your media player is running under NVIDIA GPU.

If you dont see such ModeVC1_VLD info in trace log tab when playing a VC-1 file, it indicates that your media player is running under Intel GPU.

I dont want say again...

[itsonlyjustincase]

Why I ask you to test VC-1 with LAV DXVA2 native mode, because Intels VC-1 is special, only ArcSoft and CyberLinks DXVA decoders support ModeVC1_VLD_ClearVideo, LAV DXVA2 native does not support, LAV will just fall back to sw mode when playing a VC-1 file.

If you see ModeVC1_VLD or ModeVC1_VLD2010 in trace log tab when playing a VC-1 file, it indicates that your media player is running under NVIDIA GPU.

If you dont see such ModeVC1_VLD info in trace log tab when playing a VC-1 file, it indicates that your media player is running under Intel GPU.

I dont want say again...

Anyway my player doesn't support vc1 :(. Thanks for your help

[wanezhiling]

I really dont know how to explain more detailed...:o

You just cant catch anything..

Your player doesn't support vc1, but LAV does!! LAV support VC1 DXVA on NVIDIA and AMD card!!

Why I ask you using dxva checker because you said <inactive> in lav video's properties page, right?

You just make sure LAV is running with your media player together, then using dxva checker can figure out if LAVs HW decoding is working.

It does not matter dxva checker runs in NVIDIA or iGPU, dxva checker(trace log tab) is just a tool to ensure if HW decoding is working.

[itsonlyjustincase]

I really dont know how to explain more detailed...:o

You just cant catch anything..

Your player doesn't support vc1, but LAV does!! LAV support VC1 DXVA on NVIDIA and AMD card!!

Why I ask you using dxva checker because you said <inactive> in lav video's properties page, right?

You just make sure LAV is running with your media player together, then using dxva checker can figure out if LAVs HW decoding is working.

It does not matter dxva checker runs in NVIDIA or iGPU, dxva checker(trace log tab) is just a tool to ensure if HW decoding is working.

I really appreciate your help thank you. The program is a bit shit it's not able to read .mkv files for example and this even if using haali+ffdshow. The best would be if you have time to test it by yourself. You'll be able to see how shitty it is :s. I had put the download links. It support H264 but not vc1. I don't know how they coded it but i can assure i'm not saying bullshit. Thanks to GPU-Z i could compare with and without DXVA or CUVID and in fact with we can see how the GPU is stressed (70% vs 5% without) and the CPU released. So i guess it might just be a displaying bug.

[bjd]

They probably do, if they do the conversion. I'm just wondering whether they might pass the float audio to the audio hardware driver and then maybe it's up to the audio hardware driver to do the float -> int conversion. I've really no idea, though, just shooting in the wild here...

Yep, once audio is passed from renderer to soundcard you are at the mercy of the design of the hardware/driver and if your experience with video card drivers is anything to go by! :eek:

For the moment I would rather put my trust in ReClock, pass it whatever Lav sends using WASAPI/Exclusive and let it resample the 32fp to 24 in my case before sending audio to the soundcard. I always have ReClock locked to the soundcard so it works in bit exact mode wherever possible.

Since the introduction of WASAPI audio in Vista, the mixer always resamples audio to 32fp regardless but we don't know how well it does it and then it outputs what you specify in the sound card shared mode properties.

AFAIK always best to avoid the mixer wherever possible and especially if you don't really need it.

[6233638]

It was my understanding that there are actually two different audio resamplers in Windows 7, and the "legacy" one had a lot of problems. (aliasing etc.)

This hotfix (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2653312) updates the resampler and it should give high quality results. I believe the Windows 8 resampler is further improved from this. Anything older than this, and you want to avoid using the system mixer for audio resampling.

I don't know how Reclock compares. I do know that you have the option of switching between the "new" resampler and going back to the old "CPU hungry" SRC-based resampler by swapping out the resampler.dll file.

I use the old resampler with WASAPI output, as I think that will bypass any nastiness the audio drivers may be doing? The formats my card accepts change depending on the driver installed, but WASAPI will only ever accept 24-bit padded to 32, no matter what driver is installed.

[omarank]

Hi 6233638, do you mean to say that the new resampler in ReClock doesn't bypass any nastiness by the audio drivers in WASAPI? Also, from where can I get this old resampler of ReClock, for testing purposes? I wanted to know that if I am using WASAPI exclusive mode in ReClock, do I need to care about that Windows hotfix for audio resampler?

[6233638]

Hi 6233638, do you mean to say that the new resampler in ReClock doesn't bypass any nastiness by the audio drivers in WASAPI? Also, from where can I get this old resampler of ReClock, for testing purposes? I wanted to know that if I am using WASAPI exclusive mode in ReClock, do I need to care about that Windows hotfix for audio resampler?WASAPI alone should bypass any potentially bad conversions going on inside the driver I think, because it does not allow higher sample rates than the card can natively accept.

With DirectSound output, three different drivers gave me the options of 24-bit, 24-bit padded, 32-bit int, and 32-bit float as the best options it would accept.
With WASAPI, the card will only accept 24-bit padded to 32-bit, regardless of the driver installed, it rejects 24-bit and 32-bit int/float.

So I have to assume that when using DirectSound with the newer drivers, it's performing a conversion from 32-bit int/float to 24-bit, and I don't know how good/bad that may be. I don't know if that's done using the Windows resampler, or some code in the driver itself though.

WASAPI just seems to bypass the potential for problems.



If you are using WASAPI output, Windows will not be doing any resampling, so you don't need to worry about that hotfix. I don't know if the hotfix even applies to the resampler that would be used if you are using DirectSound out either. (but it can't hurt to have it installed)


This is the resampler dll I used for Reclock: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-7089655d.html
I don't know if it was compiled with optimisations enabled though, so in addition to using a more CPU intensive resampler (SRC) it may require even more CPU as a result of that. (I don't know if anyone has a dll compiled with optimisations)

You will have to open up the Reclock preferences again and re-select "best sinc interpolator" when you change the dll.


I don't know how SRC (and it's an older build of SRC at this point) compares to the Windows DirectSound mixer, or the newer resampler that now ships with Reclock. It was my understanding that the newer resampler for reclock was focused on reducing CPU usage, rather than necessarily being focused on the best audio quality at all costs. It's been a few years at this point now (reclock development seems to have stopped) so I don't remember the specifics and I could be mistaken.

Perhaps someone else could clarify this. (and if someone has compiled a more optimised dll using the latest SRC code, I'd appreciate the link)

[madshi]

SRC etc are samplerate converters. They are not bitdepth converters. That are 2 totally different things. Converting samplerate well is very very difficult and complex. Converting bitdepth is dead easy in comparison. What we were talking about in this thread (dithering needed when doing bitdepth reduction etc) has nothing to do with samplerate conversion at all. I don't think LAV Filter ever does any samplerate conversion, so discussion about samplerate converters doesn't really belong into this thread.

[Pomegranate]

Madshi, if one starts with a lossy audio file and it is decoded to 32 bit fp, is there any audible difference between

a) the 32-bit fp representation and
b) taking the 32-bit fp and reducing the bit depth to 24 bit integer, with or without dithering.

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this :p

[nevcairiel]

For the record, if your audio driver is doing terrible things, WASAPI won't stop it from doing them. But in general, on Windows 7, all audio processing is done by DirectSound/Windows Audio, and not left to the driver anymore, which should give you at least a somewhat consistent image of what happens, independent of driver quirks.
Thats the biggest difference to XP, where the driver itself had to convert to a hardware format, and in Vista/7, this is done by the OS.

[nevcairiel]

Madshi, if one starts with a lossy audio file and it is decoded to 32 bit fp, is there any audible difference between

a) the 32-bit fp representation and
b) taking the 32-bit fp and reducing the bit depth to 24 bit integer, with or without dithering.

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this :p

Audible in 24-bit, probably not, unless you have audio in *very* low volumes (32fp can better represent very low volumes than integer can) - like volume constantly below 5%, otherwise any rounding issues vanish in the inaudible parts. Heck most DACs only do 19-20 bits.

[Pomegranate]

Audible in 24-bit, probably not, unless you have audio in *very* low volumes (32fp can better represent very low volumes than integer can) - like volume constantly below 5%, otherwise any rounding issues vanish in the inaudible parts. Heck most DACs only do 19-20 bits.

:thanks:

Thank you very much for the clarification, kind sir.

So, for the majority of lossy encoded material comercially available, I'm perfectly fine with 32-bit fp to 24 bit int done inside LAV audio, while using kernel streaming?

[6233638]

SRC etc are samplerate converters. They are not bitdepth converters. That are 2 totally different things. Converting samplerate well is very very difficult and complex. Converting bitdepth is dead easy in comparison. What we were talking about in this thread (dithering needed when doing bitdepth reduction etc) has nothing to do with samplerate conversion at all. I don't think LAV Filter ever does any samplerate conversion, so discussion about samplerate converters doesn't really belong into this thread.Well that was maybe a bad example. Changing drivers would also let my card accept up to 192kHz, when it only supports up to 48kHz over WASAPI.

It sounds like that conversion would have been handled by the Windows mixer rather than the drivers though, which doesn't seem to be a bad thing from the sound of it. I was more concerned that it was being done by the drivers, and who knows what could have been going on there.


For what it's worth, I've just done some testing in Windows 8, and neither DirectSound or the old/new Reclock resamplers have aliasing problems. (as long as you are using Sinc in Reclock) From doing more reading, it looks like only WaveOut from Reclock would have been affected by the aliasing problems that hotfix was for.

The new Reclock resampler did have audible problems when downsampling 96kHz audio to 48 though. Both DirectSound and the old Reclock resampler were fine. (stayed silent once the sweep got above my threshold of hearing)

[nevcairiel]

So, for the majority of lossy encoded material comercially available, I'm perfectly fine with 32-bit fp to 24 bit int done inside LAV audio, while using kernel streaming?

Should be just fine. The next major release will most likely also include optional dithering.

[Pomegranate]

^ Cherry on top of the cake, good sir!

[omarank]

This is the resampler dll I used for Reclock: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-7089655d.html


Thanks. I wish ReClock development hadn't stopped.

[Brom]

For the record, if your audio driver is doing terrible things, WASAPI won't stop it from doing them. But in general, on Windows 7, all audio processing is done by DirectSound/Windows Audio, and not left to the driver anymore, which should give you at least a somewhat consistent image of what happens, independent of driver quirks.
Thats the biggest difference to XP, where the driver itself had to convert to a hardware format, and in Vista/7, this is done by the OS.How can you test if your driver is doing terrible things?

Under Win7 (i guess it started with Vista?) can you bitexactly stream the LPCM from the decoder (configured like that (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534720#post1534720)) or is there still some processing by DirectSound/Windows Audio?

[Qaq]

The next major release will most likely also include optional dithering.
That would be great. At least for perfectly matched sources (MezzoHD 1080i50 for example) I could set ReClock to "original speed".

[6233638]

That would be great. At least for perfectly matched sources (MezzoHD 1080i50 for example) I could set ReClock to "original speed".Video framerate is never going to be a perfect match to your refresh rate.

ReClock should always be left at "Auto (best)" (note the speed it reports below that is not accurate - it's a bug that was never fixed)

And you should never use the "slave reference clock to audio" option.

[mark0077]

I disagree with using reclock. In both windows 7 and 8 reclock has never been reliable at detecting my displays refresh rate. Especially now in windows 8 where it detects 60.000 hZ when it's actually 59.94 hZ. This completely defeats the purpose if you ask me. So I personally recommend staying away from any of its auto settings. I only use it for wasapi now and try to simply get my display as close to content as possible.

[Qaq]

Video framerate is never going to be a perfect match to your refresh rate.
Just tried MezzoHD 1080i50 on 50Hz display with ReClock "auto". ReClock changed (very rare) 48000Hz from 47999 to 48001. Isn't it perfectly matched?

[mrchisholm]

a some what odd question perhaps but it's been bugging me for a while .. i'm streaming a transponder from TSReader to MPC-HC using LAV filters (splitter/video/audio) and i don't know if it's the issue with MPC or LAV filters or anything else but i have the same problem using graphedit and lav filters.

Problem is that when you start streaming a file is created in temporary internet files called 127_0_0_1[1] or similar (yes i'm streaming to the same PC) and the file seem to grow as the video is fed but when it hits 4GB the streams grinds to a halt. no errors, just stops (or well it seems like it actually restarts playing from where u started the stream when the file reaches 4GB).

I've tried streaming from TSReader to VLC and it does not seem to have this issue. I tried using other splitters in MPC but none of them seem to open the stream so i can't troubleshoot more with MPC.

I guess id just like to know if it at all could be a cause with LAV filters or if i need to go to TSreader devs to solve this problem.

EDIT: tried streaming from dvbviewer and it has the same issue as TSReader so that does not seem to be the cause of the problem.

[ElBarto81]

Hi, I would like to report an issue when using the LAV splitter (version 0.54.1) to play an FLV file. Video stream is H264, audio stream is Nellymoser, both of which get decoded by FFDShow.

When playing the FLV file in Media Player Classic (or any other DirectShow player), I don't get any audio. It looks like the splitter doesn't even detect the audio stream. If I use another splitter (Flash Video Splitter), the audio stream does get detected, but then there's no working playback/seeking: I only see the first frame and position stays at 0:00. Video playback/seeking works perfectly with the LAV splitter.

I'm willing to PM a download link to the FLV file if necessary.

[filler56789]

Hi, I would like to report an issue when using the LAV splitter (version 0.54.1) to play an FLV file. Video stream is H264, audio stream is Nellymoser, both of which get decoded by FFDShow.

When playing the FLV file in Media Player Classic (or any other DirectShow player), I don't get any audio. It looks like the splitter doesn't even detect the audio stream. If I use another splitter (Flash Video Splitter), the audio stream does get detected, but then there's no working playback/seeking: I only see the first frame and position stays at 0:00. Video playback/seeking works perfectly with the LAV splitter.

Sounds like you've got an improperly-muxed file
(but I can be wrong).

[nevcairiel]

I'm willing to PM a download link to the FLV file if necessary.

That would be the only way to get the details i need. :)

[Brom]

Somwhere else someone reported:
DTS-MA 6.1:
Arcsoft 1.1.0.0 decodes as 0x13f
eac3to 3.24 overrides to 0x70f and encodes the FLAC with that
FLAC 6.1 with WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_CHANNEL_MASK: 0X70F as metadata:
LAV Audio 0.54.1 decodes as 0x13f
madFlac 1.10 decodes as 0x70f
ffdshow rev4494 decodes as 0x70fWhy does LAV Audio remap 0x70f to 0x13f?

This old post by madshi seems to indicate that 0x13f is wrong:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1187128#post1187128
This old post by madshi seems to indicate that 0x13f will result in problems:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1153688&postcount=5339

[nevcairiel]

The 6.1 channel order is chosen on a simple thing: The channel order HDMI devices expect. With the channel order implied by 0x70f, HDMI receivers will assign channels to the wrong speakers, with 0x13f, it will work just fine. At least on my receiver, and i never got complaints otherwise.

So unless you have some real-world problems, skip the theoretical assumptions, and stick to what happens in real devices. ;)

PS:
If you disable "Convert Output to Standard Channel Layouts" in LAV Audio options, it should give you whatever channel order was stored in the file, without any remapping.

[cyberbeing]

Does LAV Splitter already support those new CueDuration and CueRelativePosition MKV elements for optimal subtitle display on seek, or is that something missing from FFMPEG which you'll need to code yourself?

[nevcairiel]

How the hell would it already support them if the only tool that can write them was just released an hour ago? :P
I usually prefer faster seeking over subtitle display myself, though.

[cyberbeing]

How the hell would it already support them if the only tool that can write them was just released an hour ago? :P
Wishful thinking. It seems like it was finalized over a month ago, so theoretically ffmpeg or someone could have supported it, without actual test files.

I usually prefer faster seeking over subtitle display myself, though.
So does that mean you prefer to seek multiple times until you find the block which contains the start of the subtitle line, or that you just don't care about seeing subtitles when you have them enabled. ;)

[nevcairiel]

So does that mean you prefer to seek multiple times until you find the block which contains the start of the subtitle line, or that you just don't care about seeing subtitles when you have them enabled. ;)

It'll sync audio and video to the seek time, not subtitles.
So yeah, if you seek in the middle of a sub, you won't get to see it, because i just don't know if there is a subtitle just one data block before, or maybe none at all, or 100mb before ... its impossible to know, now at least.

Patches welcome, doubtful i will spend much time on this anytime soon.
Not sure how hard that even would be to add, maybe even easy, do it in the high-level code above matroska seek logic, check if there is a Cue point with Time+Duration for a subtitle which falls into your frame, and then adjust the target seek time to that. Don't even have to toy with the low-level seeking. Maybe, just thinking out loud here.

If you wanted make working on this easier, you could prepare a sample file which helps to demonstrate the problem which is supposed to be fixed by this (preferably muxed by mkvmerge 5.9.0 so when i try implementing it, it actually helps :p)
If i don't have to dig around (or even make) for this stuff, it'll make it a lot easier.

PS:
Keep in mind that i do not use ffmpegs matroska demuxer.

[cyberbeing]

I sent you some simple samples muxed with mkvmerge 5.9.0.

Not sure how hard that even would be to add, maybe even easy, do it in the high-level code above matroska seek logic, check if there is a Cue point with Time+Duration for a subtitle which falls into your frame, and then adjust the target seek time to that.

It's probably a bit more complex than that, when you consider overlapping subtitle lines (CueDuration) residing in multiple MKV clusters scattered minutes to hours apart. In order for this to be in any way efficient, you'd want to seek and pull subtitles as directly as possible using CueRelativePosition, while not actually seeking the video or audio at all. Implmenting an intelligent background subtitle cache of some sort, may also be useful for cutting down on potential random access seeks.

[Mercury_22]

@ Nev
Strange thing happened after today's ffmpeg updates, most likely a false positive (my Avira it's going nuts ? :) ) but I thought to report this to you : when trying to build a new version of LAV my AV it's saying that "print_options.exe" from ffmpeg/doc/ it's a Trojan?! (https://www.virustotal.com/file/7a7dbd36120b6a4aa6afdb63b09ceb2315e14336d0cdaa700451c78e96529459/analysis/1355096405/)

[leewalk]

Win8 doesn't include DVD Navigator.

Will Lav support DVD navigation? Or are there any "recommended" alternatives?

It would be great to see Lav's (simple) blueray navigation extended to DVDs...

Thanks! Lee

[nevcairiel]

@ Nev
Strange thing happened after today's ffmpeg updates, most likely a false positive (my Avira it's going nuts ? :) ) but I thought to report this to you : when trying to build a new version of LAV my AV it's saying that "print_options.exe" from ffmpeg/doc/ it's a Trojan?! (https://www.virustotal.com/file/7a7dbd36120b6a4aa6afdb63b09ceb2315e14336d0cdaa700451c78e96529459/analysis/1355096405/)

That file is compiled during the build process, you can go read the sources yourself if you wish, its most certainly not a trojan. :p

[nevcairiel]

It's probably a bit more complex than that, when you consider overlapping subtitle lines (CueDuration) residing in multiple MKV clusters scattered minutes to hours apart. In order for this to be in any way efficient, you'd want to seek and pull subtitles as directly as possible using CueRelativePosition, while not actually seeking the video or audio at all. Implmenting an intelligent background subtitle cache of some sort, may also be useful for cutting down on potential random access seeks.

I figured my solution seemed too simple. Can probably make it work by cherry-picking the subtitles out of the file if i know where they are.


It would be great to see Lav's (simple) blueray navigation extended to DVDs...

There are no plans for this.
Also, my Windows 8 seems to have a DVD Navigator? :)

[DragonQ]

Yes, I have DVD Navigator also...

[Prinz]

As far as I know, Windows 8 only has a DVD Navigator in the WMC Version.

[nevcairiel]

I have plain Windows 8 Pro without the WMC pack, and i have a DVD Navigator.

[Prinz]

DVD Playback is officially only available as part of the Pro Pack or WMC extension.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/03/making-windows-media-center-available-in-windows-8.aspx

[nevcairiel]

Anyway the point remains that LAV Splitter will never offer any more DVD features, so if you want to play DVDs you better get Windows 8 Pro or the Pro Pack (or you get another DVD player like PowerDVD or the likes)

[dukey]

I thought the basic versions of win8 lack the dvd navigator ..

[wanezhiling]

I thought the basic versions of win8 lack the dvd navigator ..

Need someone to test.

[Vasilich]

DVD Playback is officially only available as part of the Pro Pack or WMC extension.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/03/making-windows-media-center-available-in-windows-8.aspx

DVD playback in this case means only that MS MPEG2 decoder is available with pro or wmc. DVD navigator is available in all windows 8 versions afaik.

[DragonQ]

DVD Playback is officially only available as part of the Pro Pack or WMC extension.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/03/making-windows-media-center-available-in-windows-8.aspx
Ah well I have Windows 8 Pro so I guess that's why.

[Kazuya]

Hello !
Is lavaudio making upmix from 2 channels to 5.1 ?

Status sais it does, but only front right and left have sound, other channels are just silent. :scared:

[wozio]

Hi,

One quick question: does LAV splitter support push source filters?

Piotr

[nevcairiel]

One quick question: does LAV splitter support push source filters?

No, it does not.

[oddball]

Is there a way to force playback of English AC3/DTS over PCM type tracks? Sometimes the default track is PCM with optional multi-channel track. I'd obviously like forced playback of the multi-channel track without having to remux.

[nevcairiel]

The track with the highest number of channels is always preferred, unless you have a MKV file with an actual "Default" marking, in which case it cannot be overriden.
You can fix such MKV flags without a full Remux, simply use the header editor of mmg.

[jmone]

It also depends on the player. In MC you can select your prefered track the first time and it will be remembered for subsequent playback.

[nx6]

Win8 doesn't include DVD Navigator.

Will Lav support DVD navigation? Or are there any "recommended" alternatives?

It would be great to see Lav's (simple) blueray navigation extended to DVDs...

Thanks! Lee

As far as I know, Windows 8 only has a DVD Navigator in the WMC Version.

Not really a solution for the future but it is worth noting that you can get the WMC pack for Win8 for free from Microsoft until sometime in January.

Edit: Oops, that only applies to Win8 Pro. Sorry.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

[mark0077]

Hi Nev, all. Can anyone reproduce corruption at 5-6 second mark in this TwinPeaks clip

Twinpeaks1080p30fpsRef2-27Mbps.mov

Its about 10% the height of the screen and 100% width, like a horizontal block of blurred image. It only happens in software decoding mode, not cuvid decoding mode.

[nevcairiel]

The corruption also happens in CUVID mode, but its not as obvious because the hardware does better error concealment, the file is just broken there.

[mark0077]

ahh nice one, thanks v much.

[VictorDUA]

Stereo AC3 in avi container do not work in Windows Media Center. In WMP there is no sound, in WMC can't open file
Video Format: AVI
Audio Format: AC-3, Bit rate mode: Constant, Bit rate: 192 Kbps
Channel(s): 2 channels, Channel positions: Front: L R
Sampling rate: 48.0 KHz, Bit depth: 16 bits

Is there some tip or workaround? Thanx.
Win7 x64, LAV Splitter and Decoder 0.54.1 (or any older)

[DragonQ]

Are you sure either of those programs is using LAV? IIRC, neither of those actually lets you choose which codecs it uses, a prime example of the need for system-wide codec settings in the Control Panel (which can be protected from unwanted changes), rather than relying on merits and programs deciding what's best by themselves.

[DragonQ]

Oooh the beta of MediaPortal 1.3.0 lets you choose your own splitter. I wonder how LAV Splitter will handle live TV in this environment. :D

[owlsroost]

Oooh the beta of MediaPortal 1.3.0 lets you choose your own splitter.

Only for Video, not for TV (or Blu-ray) ;)

[DragonQ]

Ah, I see.

EDIT: Hmmm that's weird, using LAV Splitter + EVR in MediaPortal 1.3.0 Beta plays videos that have dodgy playback in MPC-HC perfectly. Wasn't expecting that.

[VictorDUA]

Are you sure either of those programs is using LAV?
Yes I'm sure. It's not so difficult. Any other answer?

[G_M_C]

I have a question: I just tried a '2-in-1' type mkv, and is noticed lavfilters didnt show the 2 separate streams. Is it something i confugured wrongly, or dont the lavfilters support 'x-in-1' type mkv's ? And if not, will they support it soon?

[VictorDUA]

This is easy: check AC3 in LAV Audio AVI in LAV Splitter and play the file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7xwumko47epbmci
with WMP and WMC. So any help please.

[nevcairiel]

I tried playing that file in WMP with both 0.54.1 and the latest development version, and it plays just perfectly with LAV Splitter and LAV Audio.

[Superb]

Works well here as well. Tested w/ 0.54.1 on WMP, WMC, and MPC-HC.
Note that Microsoft built-in filters are turned off on my machine, so that LAV will be used.

[Mercury_22]

Maybe it's time for LAV tray icons (long overdue) ? :) Cause I can bet he wasn't using LAV in WMC/WMP but he didn't know:p

[VictorDUA]

I tried playing that file in WMP with both 0.54.1 and it plays just perfectly with LAV Splitter and LAV Audio.

This is my setup (pic 01). If I check AC3 (pic 02), than WMP play file without sound and WMC did not play file at all.

[more2read]

Problem is that when you start streaming a file is created in temporary internet files called 127_0_0_1[1] or similar (yes i'm streaming to the same PC) and the file seem to grow as the video is fed but when it hits 4GB the streams grinds to a halt. no errors, just stops (or well it seems like it actually restarts playing from where u started the stream when the file reaches 4GB).

I have the same problem. :(

[nevcairiel]

LAV itself should have no issues with file of any size, but its certainly possible whatever you're using to stream the file is causing some problems there.

[nevcairiel]

Maybe it's time for LAV tray icons (long overdue) ? :) Cause I can bet he wasn't using LAV in WMC/WMP but he didn't know:p

A tray icon is easy, but i bet people also want it to offer at least some functionality.

So lets hear it, what functions should the tray icon offer?

Splitter:
- Options dialog
- Stream changing

Video/Audio:
- Options dialog
- ???

All icons would obviously also get some kind of tooltip that indicates which format and codec is currently in use.

[nevcairiel]

This is my setup (pic 01). If I check AC3 (pic 02), than WMP play file without sound and WMC did not play file at all.

I see you have bitstreaming activated, are you sure your audio setup is capable of this?

[wanezhiling]

Video/Audio:
- Options dialog

Will not say <inactive>, right? :D

[noee]

So lets hear it, what functions should the tray icon offer?


Will you include an option to make the tray icons optional?

[more2read]

LAV itself should have no issues with file of any size, but its certainly possible whatever you're using to stream the file is causing some problems there.
Live DVB-S Streaming from TSReader, and DVBViewer.
When other Splitters are used, the temp file does not grow.
It's LAV Splitters ability to handle all the different audio streams is why I use it. Workaround has been to record the feed and play in MPC-HC at the same time.

[nevcairiel]

Will you include an option to make the tray icons optional?

Of course not. It'll be obnoxius and popup balloon tips every few minutes, canceling full screen playback, and the like!
You asked for it! :devil:

(I hope everyone turned their sarcasm detector on this morning)

[nevcairiel]

Live DVB-S Streaming from TSReader, and DVBViewer.
When other Splitters are used, the temp file does not grow.
It's LAV Splitters ability to handle all the different audio streams is why I use it. Workaround has been to record the feed and play in MPC-HC at the same time.

I have no idea how this whole concept is supposed to work.
If one of you can explain in detail which components interact in what way, who writes and who reads what files, and how the data gets into LAV, i can possibly help you - but without knowing a thing about whats going on, there is just nothing i can say.

All i know is that somehow this temporary file gets created, and somehow the data gets to LAV, but who does the actual writing and reading, i cannot say.
I also have DVBViewer (only with DVB-C/T though), so if you can just explain how to set this up what you have there, that might already help.

[madshi]

IMHO, a nice first step would be just to show different icons for splitter, video and audio, so people can see with one quick glance at the tray section which LAV components are active. The next step would be to open the appropriate settings dialog when double clicking on the icons. These two things should be quite easy. The "final" step would be a left/right click context menu with stream switching etc. But that's probably the most work, and it isn't really necessary to make tray icons useful, so it could be implemented later.

P.S: Development can get "interesting" if your tray icons try to support multiple player instances in a clever way somehow. But I guess it would be good enough to first simply add one icon per filter instance.

[nevcairiel]

Luckily i already have icons in 3 colors! :)

I have no plans to make this really smart. I'll probably turn them off by default, and if someone really runs several instances, well, their loss. I'll blacklist the icons from common problem candiates like the explorer or reclocks fps guessing thing, so they dont cause random icons to appear.

[madshi]

Sounds good to me.

[noee]

Of course not. It'll be obnoxius and popup balloon tips every few minutes, canceling full screen playback, and the like!
You asked for it! :devil:

lol, yes, I deserved that! Still working on the first cup.

[Mercury_22]

A tray icon is easy, but i bet people also want it to offer at least some functionality.

So lets hear it, what functions should the tray icon offer?

Splitter:
- Options dialog
- Stream changing

Video/Audio:
- Options dialog
- ???

All icons would obviously also get some kind of tooltip that indicates which format and codec is currently in use.

I for one would settle for a "tooltip" and stream changing (for the dumb players) :p cause the most important part is for everybody to be sure they are using LAV (and so maybe you'll get less false bug reports :) )

[Superb]

Would be great if you could make a single dynamic icon per single directshow graph. Meaning an icon which includes all 3 filters (splitter, audio, video) and knows which is active and which is not on that graph.

[nevcairiel]

Would be great if you could make a single dynamic icon per single directshow graph. Meaning an icon which includes all 3 filters (splitter, audio, video) and knows which is active and which is not on that graph.

Thats not easily possible without launching a process thats shared between all filters (like madVR launches its control process), i don't think i'll be doing this.

[clsid]

Another useful function of the tray icon could be to display a list of all filters in the graph. And access their config dialogs by clicking on them. Very handy for quickly seeing what is going on and opening settings of filters that don't have their own tray icon (or have it disabled).

The splitter could offer Blu-ray title selection.

A few other apps that should be added to the icon blacklist are these video editors: Movie Maker (moviemk.exe), Adobe Premiere (premiere.exe), and Sony Vegas (???.exe).

[filler56789]

the most important part is for everybody to be sure they are using LAV

Hummm, at least in the case of LAV Video, an "Enable Logo" option ( à la DivX way :D ) could look more interesting for some people ^_^

( not to be taken seriously --- I hope :) )

[nevcairiel]

Another useful function of the tray icon could be to display a list of all filters in the graph. And access their config dialogs by clicking on them. Very handy for quickly seeing what is going on and opening settings of filters that don't have their own tray icon (or have it disabled).

I will offer LAV tray icons, not generic DirectShow icons that come with everything and a kitchen sink. I'm not building a ffdshow clone with its collection of unrelated functionality.
If you use a "dumb" player, thats just the way it is, its not LAV Splitters place to try to amend all missing functionality to WMP.

Maybe if it looks easy and i ever get really bored, but like thats ever going to happen.
Maybe you get lucky and i take the time to abstract all the complex stuff out of making context menus, so it'll be easy, but we'll have to see about that once i work on the stream selection menu.


The splitter could offer Blu-ray title selection.

Thats not a function LAV Splitter offers, so neither will the tray icon.

[SamuriHL]

Yea, you really need to keep it limited to exposing the functionality that LAV provides. Everyone's going to come up with a list of "pet projects" they want added to it that are completely unrelated to LAV. I have one, though that should fit the bill. Can we have a quick bitstreaming toggle for LAV Audio's icon?

[nevcairiel]

Can we have a quick bitstreaming toggle for LAV Audio's icon?

No. Everyone will want some option for quick access, you can just as well double click it and change it in the options.

[SamuriHL]

At least I tried. :)

[madshi]

Would be great if you could make a single dynamic icon per single directshow graph. Meaning an icon which includes all 3 filters (splitter, audio, video) and knows which is active and which is not on that graph.
Thats not easily possible without launching a process thats shared between all filters (like madVR launches its control process), i don't think i'll be doing this.
I don't think Superb asked for having this work cross process boundaries. If I understand him correctly, his wish is to have only one LAV icon per media player process, handling all audio, video and splitter related stuff. Personally, I'm not sure if I like that idea. It has its advantages and disadvantages compared to using separate tray icons for audio, video and splitter...

[nevcairiel]

The problem is, which component creates the icon?
If the one that did gets unloaded, you're somewhat in limbo there. I had quite some issues before trying to share things between the filters.
Maybe i'll think about it as an optimization for the future. For now, it'll be separate icons, which you can turn on/off per filter if you want to.

[madshi]

Yeah, it's difficult because you have the different filters in different ax files. But I don't know whether I like the idea of one combined icon, anyway. Of course it saves space in the tray area. But then, I think it's also useful to see different icons for video, audio and splitter. So the easier solution might even be the better one in this case.

[nevcairiel]

Here is a test version, unrelated to tray icons:

x86: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-30-g1add067.zip
x64: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-30-g1add067-x64.zip

There are two areas that got some major changes, but mostly internal (so far)

- I redesigned the way mixing and sample format conversion is done in LAV Audio, which should be more flexible in the future
- Handling of timestamps wraps in MPEG-TS has been revised, now using the (new) functionality in ffmpeg itself for this

If you either use a lot of mixing or sample format conversion, or watch a lot of DVB recordings with common timestamp wraps (or you just happen to have a collection of weird and broken mpeg-ts files), please give this a try, and report anything that broke in this version (and works in 0.54.1).
There are no new features yet, but at least the LAV Audio changes are long overdue to allow further improvements in the future for mixing and sample format conversion

[VictorDUA]

I see you have bitstreaming activated, are you sure your audio setup is capable of this?
Yes. I can bitstreaming all formats under MPC-HC with LAV and all formats except AC3 with LAV under WMP and WMC.
AC3 with Microsoft Audio decoder in WMC working fine. Deadly combination: AC3-LAV-WMC.
Thanx.

[nevcairiel]

I activated AC3 bitstreaming in LAV, and it still works fine in WMP for me.
Considering it works in MPC-HC (and i cannot reproduce any problems in WMP either), i'll file this under WMP-brokeness and work on some code.

Without being able to reproduce the issue, i can't really fix it.

[VictorDUA]

Thanx anyway. There is no log file or something?

[clsid]

Edit: nevermind

[Reino]

LAV Filters 0.31

LAV Audio
- Added the ability to detect DTS-in-WAV

Feature request: the ability to detect DTS-in-(compressed)PCM.
Right now for a DTS-in-WAV stream compressed to WavPack (or FLAC, or Monkey's Audio for that matter), or a DTS encoded Redbook Audio-cd, the FFDShow Audio Decoder is still needed. If LAV Audio were able to do that, it would be one less reason to use FFDShow. Perhaps a "DTS-in-WAV"-option on the Formats-tab, or somewhere else in the LAV Audio settings would be an idea (just like the "DVD decoding"-option for MPEG2 in the FFDShow Video Decoder Configuration).

[nevcairiel]

I have no plans for this, because it would mean you actually have to decode twice, which would require completely new logic just to handle such files which i personally consider just broken by design.
DTS-in-WAV is just plain DTS, its not compressed, so all i have to do is tell it to decode this as DTS, but decoding some other lossless format first would require a whole new decoder instance.

[DragonQ]

What's the point of DTS-in-WAV (which I gather is just a raw DTS stream) anyway? Compressing such a stream in a lossless codec also seems pointless, since lossy encodes already employ lossless compression as a first step. Can't you just mux the DTS into an MKV or something?

[nevcairiel]

Which is why i think its broken by design. Lossless compressions are based on compressing pattern in typical audio and exploiting correlation between channels, but if its not actually audio you're compressing but a already compressed PCM stream, the compression will be minimal, because there are no such patterns.
I rather not support it, and teach people to not create such broken files. That it would be incredibly complex to support doesn't help, of course. :p

[Reino]

I have a 2-disk new-age cd, which has the front channels on the 1st disk and the back channels on the 2nd and is meant to be played together on 2 different cd-players for the best experience.
Now, for experiment's sake, I merged these 4 channels and encoded them to DTS, so I could play it on my receiver.
It's an iso of a Redbook Audio-cd and to the outside world looks like ordinary PCM 44100Hz stereo 1411kbps, but is in fact DTS 44100Hz 5ch 1411kbps (1 dummy channel) and thus needs a DTS decoder.

The iso is 497MB in size, yet if I compress it with WavPack (extra high) that becomes 439MB (1247Kbps vs. 1411Kbps). Although it doesn't have the potential to compress like a normal audio-cd, it's still worth it if you ask me.

Complex, complex? At the moment there's 2 decoders in the chain; DC-Bass Source Mod, or LAV Audio Decoder to decode FLAC/WavPack/TAK and FFDShow Audio Decoder to decode the DTS stream the first puts out. I was just wondering if LAV could do that? Either also by 2 decoder instances, or somehow find a way to do it in 1 instance.

[nevcairiel]

One instance is very complicated, and unlikely to ever happen. Two instances may work if it just tries to detect it and changes the output type (and bypasses any processing).
If you can provide a sample file, i'll put it the list for some rainy day where boredom overcomes me.

The problem is that the filter graph is usually build before the decoder even sees one piece of audio, so i'm not sure how it would figure this out and add a second instance. So chances may not be that high for any timely implementation, if any.

PS:
Since your WavPack file cannot be played by any stand-alone player anymore anyway, why not simply use a better lossy compression for your 4 channels and take the DTS middle-man out, if space is such a concern?
Personally, i would use a lossless compression and preserve the 4 original channels from the CDs untouched, but of course thats going to require more space.

[Kurtnoise]

Space storage is cheap nowadays, you know that ?

[P.J]

I can't play 4:2:2 MPEG2 with LAVFilters + WMP12 :confused:

[DragonQ]

I have a 2-disk new-age cd, which has the front channels on the 1st disk and the back channels on the 2nd and is meant to be played together on 2 different cd-players for the best experience.
Now, for experiment's sake, I merged these 4 channels and encoded them to DTS, so I could play it on my receiver.
It's an iso of a Redbook Audio-cd and to the outside world looks like ordinary PCM 44100Hz stereo 1411kbps, but is in fact DTS 44100Hz 5ch 1411kbps (1 dummy channel) and thus needs a DTS decoder.

The iso is 497MB in size, yet if I compress it with WavPack (extra high) that becomes 439MB (1247Kbps vs. 1411Kbps). Although it doesn't have the potential to compress like a normal audio-cd, it's still worth it if you ask me.

Complex, complex? At the moment there's 2 decoders in the chain; DC-Bass Source Mod, or LAV Audio Decoder to decode FLAC/WavPack/TAK and FFDShow Audio Decoder to decode the DTS stream the first puts out. I was just wondering if LAV could do that? Either also by 2 decoder instances, or somehow find a way to do it in 1 instance.
Why not use a DVD/BD with 48 kHz 16-bit PCM (or DTS-HD MA if you have the encoder) and use FLAC for permanent storage? Or 44.1 16-bit PCM on a DVD-Audio (if your player supports this). I don't understand the need for DTS.

[bofex]

Has someone seen this before?

Win7/Atom N2800/latest GMA driver/latest LAV

If i play wmv3 (HD) with DVXA native Mode only drop outs are displayed... :confused:

[e-t172]

I have a 2-disk new-age cd, which has the front channels on the 1st disk and the back channels on the 2nd and is meant to be played together on 2 different cd-players for the best experience.

Really? I had no idea such a thing existed. Are there 2-disc players too? I don't understand how such a system could work properly with two separate players considering you won't be able to start both at the exact same time, so you would screw up phase between the front and back speakers…

[DragonQ]

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-310-70-whql-drivers-released

Nvidia released GeForce 310.70 WHQL drivers.
Did they re-enable Adaptive VSync?

[nevcairiel]

Has someone seen this before?

Win7/Atom N2800/latest GMA driver/latest LAV

If i play wmv3 (HD) with DVXA native Mode only drop outs are displayed... :confused:

Intel doesn't support "standard" VC-1 VLD, so LAV cannot work with it.

[wanezhiling]

Intel doesn't support "standard" VC-1 VLD, so LAV cannot work with it.

Atom is somehow different, PowerVR based GPUs support "standard" VC-1 VLD.

Atom N2800's DXVA Checker (http://i.imgur.com/mJH0D.jpg)
PS: 4K?? mpeg4 asp??:eek:

PotPlayer DXVA supports Atom's VC-1 VLD. (http://i.imgur.com/w5mre.jpg)

[nevcairiel]

I see. Well without access to such a device, its really hard to tell whats going on. Only WMV3 failing (simple/main profile), or also VC-1 (advanced profile)?

[wanezhiling]

That is not my PC, I dont like Atom's weak cpu performance.

I just searched them from Internet.

Wait for @bofex's reply.:)

[more2read]

Using this registry edit, streaming works perfect - no temp file is created.....

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\http]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"

[nevcairiel]

Yeah i figured it might, that means previously Microsofts URL Source was used, and that thing really isn't all that good. With that change, LAV takes over HTTP streaming completely.

[Tacio]

Only WMV3 failing (simple/main profile), or also VC-1 (advanced profile)?
Found Twin Peaks sample: WVC1 1920x1080 29.97fps 12518kbps
DXVA checker in benchmark mode shows corrupted image with LAV - http://postimage.org/image/qnxkkbjz9/
P.S. I have intel atom 2800.

[wanezhiling]

Found Twin Peaks sample: WVC1 1920x1080 29.97fps 12518kbps
DXVA checker in benchmark mode shows corrupted image with LAV - http://postimage.org/image/qnxkkbjz9/
P.S. I have intel atom 2800.

How about other DXVA decoder? MPC DXVA, ffdshow DXVA and so on.

[Tacio]

MPC-BE internal dxva decoder has the same issue.
Maybe I did something wrong, but DXVA checker shows only DXVA1 support by ffdshow for this video sample and also for H264 videos.

[wanezhiling]

I think its hard for nev to fix it, because he has no Atom platform to test himself...

[clsid]

Yeah i figured it might, that means previously Microsofts URL Source was used, and that thing really isn't all that good. With that change, LAV takes over HTTP streaming completely.
Can you think of any situations where LAV might fail with HTTP streaming where MS file source (url) works correctly? So basically is there any format that the splitter can't handle that might be streamed over HTTP.
Perhaps DRM protected Windows Media stuff. Although that probably would use HTTPS.

[nevcairiel]

No idea how well seeking works in either the MS source or LAV. I never really tested either methods extensively.

[wanezhiling]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1606383&postcount=409

lav splitter + lav audio decoder, mute at the beginning.
mpc splitter + lav audio decoder, no characters voice just background sound.

[nevcairiel]

Both combinations seem to work just fine for me.

[wanezhiling]

...

Enable mixing(stereo), the issue went.
Disable mixing, issue came.

I tested on my old notebook. :o

[nevcairiel]

Sounds like your system has issues dealing with 6.1 audio =p

[wanezhiling]

I think so...

[Reino]

Why not use a DVD/BD with 48 kHz 16-bit PCM (or DTS-HD MA if you have the encoder) and use FLAC for permanent storage? Or 44.1 16-bit PCM on a DVD-Audio (if your player supports this). I don't understand the need for DTS.For storage I normally use TAK. I encoded to DTS for experiment's sake and because my receiver supports it.

[P.J]

I can't play 4:2:2 MPEG2 with LAVFilters + WMP12 :confused:

No answer?

[Prinz]

Can you think of any situations where LAV might fail with HTTP streaming where MS file source (url) works correctly?

I know one:

Streaming from my DVB-S receiver in HD stops most of the time after a few seconds. Probably because the buffer in LAV Source is too small and the the stream interrupts.

[nevcairiel]

No answer?

Make sure you also use LAV as Splitter, the Microsoft MPEG-2 Splitter has apparently issues with such files.

[Reino]

Why for audio with 3 channels and up does LAV Audio Decoder put out 6 channels by default?

[nevcairiel]

Because i decided its better this way, otherwise audio systems get confused and route stuff to the weirdest channels (especially if you use HDMI).
You can turn it off by disabling "Convert Output to Standard Channel Layouts". If its on, all audio gets padded with empty channels to "standard" layouts, like 5.1/6.1/7.1, whatever is required to properly place the existing channels. I had too many cases of audio in the wrong channel just because an encode was 5.0 instead of 5.1, and suddenly, no center.

[Reino]

Ah, missed that one. Got it. Thanks.

[bofex]

I see. Well without access to such a device, its really hard to tell whats going on. Only WMV3 failing (simple/main profile), or also VC-1 (advanced profile)?



GMA3650 support "standard" DXVA - works with all profiles listet with DXVA Checker (4k not tested) - except everything using the VC1 VLD profile. I think i testet all 3 profiles with a lot of different files, but everytime the same.
N2800 is playing a 20MBit FHD h.264/AVC file at ~10% CPU load with LAV :D

Wanna have a machine for testing? no problem! ;)

[clsid]

I know one:

Streaming from my DVB-S receiver in HD stops most of the time after a few seconds. Probably because the buffer in LAV Source is too small and the the stream interrupts.Interesting. Do those streams have a specific file extension (like .ts)?

(the HTTP source filter can be configured for individual file extensions as well)

[bofex]

How about other DXVA decoder? MPC DXVA, ffdshow DXVA and so on.

ffdshow DXVA did not accept the files (all Checks off), using LAV Splitter or HAALI in graphstudio.

PowerDVD12 Player in DXVA Mode plays it very well. But this software is a other story.

[gonca]

@nev
Great software. Merry Christmas from a happy user

[Aleksoid1978]

Found Twin Peaks sample: WVC1 1920x1080 29.97fps 12518kbps
DXVA checker in benchmark mode shows corrupted image with LAV - http://postimage.org/image/qnxkkbjz9/
P.S. I have intel atom 2800.

Can you upload a sample for test.

[Prinz]

Interesting. Do those streams have a specific file extension (like .ts)?

(the HTTP source filter can be configured for individual file extensions as well)

It's live TV. The url is something like this:

http://RECEIVER-IP:8001/1:0:19:1B1D:802:2:11A0000:0:0:0:

A streamproxy program on the DVB-S Receiver streams the TS Data this way.

I use VLC with buffer for this and it works good. MS URL Source works but writes everything in the IE Cache :angry: until the Cache is full, then the Playback stops of course.

I think it's a too small buffer(cache) in LAV Source because sometimes it works longer, if the Directshow Graph is build fast enough.

[Gruko]

Hi, can i configure lav filters for playing speex audio file in WMP?
Thanks for your great job.

[Tacio]

Can you upload a sample for test.
http://rapidshare.com/files/418234073/twinpeaks.1080.wmv.html

There are some other VC1 samples - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156660

[Aleksoid1978]

http://rapidshare.com/files/418234073/twinpeaks.1080.wmv.html

There are some other VC1 samples - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156660

Thanks.

[more2read]

I use VLC with buffer for this and it works good. MS URL Source works but writes everything in the IE Cache until the Cache is full, then the Playback stops of course.
I had same / similar issue, this solved it....
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1605975#post1605975

I can now stream to MPC-HC with no limit.

[romulous]

Hi nev,

Found this test clip via another thread on this board:
http://rapidshare.com/files/416586142/1.Twinpeaks1080p30fpsRef2-27Mbps.mov.html

Using LAV Video with no hardware acceleration, at about 5 sec there are two very noticeable bands of corruption (doesn't happen when CUVID is enabled). LAV problem or clip problem?

Thanks!

[nevcairiel]

The clip is broken. I wish people would stop using it. :p
With CUVID enabled it also happens, but you need to pay more attention to see it. CUVID has better error concealment, and manages to hide the error nearly perfectly.

[romulous]

Oops, sorry - I didn't know it was broken. The thread made no mention of that:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156660

[ranpha]

Suggestion: Make the tray icon for LAV Splitter white (like Haali Media Splitter) instead of light gray as it is now.

[wanezhiling]

Hi, would you add an option to disable tray icon?
Well, check it by default.

[nevcairiel]

Suggestion: Make the tray icon for LAV Splitter white (like Haali Media Splitter) instead of light gray as it is now.

I made it a bit brighter, but i like the slight gradient it has.

[wanezhiling]

http://i.imgur.com/8rrsi.png

a little bit similar :)

[Anarchitektur]

why not one icon and then menu for splitter etc.?
please new test build if it is possible :)

[nevcairiel]

why not one icon and then menu for splitter etc.?

Because its rather complex to do that, the filters can be loaded/unloaded at any time, and its hard to determine which filter should then manage the icon, etc,etc.
Its much easier to just let every instance manage its own icon.

I just don't care that much about the tray icon. :p

[Anarchitektur]

Because its rather complex to do that, the filters can be loaded/unloaded at any time, and its hard to determine which filter should then manage the icon, etc,etc.
Its much easier to just let every instance manage its own icon.

I just don't care that much about the tray icon. :p
oh I see, I just guessing do not have new test build to see :o

[Mercury_22]

I think the current icon options are enough ... EDIT: never mind already requested

[DragonQ]

Suggestion: Make the tray icon for LAV Splitter white (like Haali Media Splitter) instead of light gray as it is now.
Woah, what? There's a tray icon?

[madshi]

I think the icons are just fine. One minor improvement would be to have the "A" stand out a little bit more for the "audio" icon and to have the "V" stand out a bit more for the "video" icon, so that it's obvious which icon is for audio and which is for video. E.g. in the blue icon, the "L" and "V" could be a light shade of blue, and the "A" could be a stronger (bold?) white. But then, the font is so small that I'm not sure it's possible to do this at all. And it's not really crucial, it would just be some cosmetical tweaking...

[nevcairiel]

In those tiny 16x16 icons, i don't think i can really do much to make it really obvious.
The colors will have to be enough.

[DragonQ]

Shoulda gone with wild pink and neon green. :p

[P.J]

Make sure you also use LAV as Splitter, the Microsoft MPEG-2 Splitter has apparently issues with such files.

How can I force WMP12 to use LAV as splitter?
I see nothing in LAV Splitter Configuration :(

[madshi]

In those tiny 16x16 icons, i don't think i can really do much to make it really obvious.
Let the madshi do his magic... :p

http://madshi.net/lavMadshiDesign.png

(P.S: I've edited all 3. So if you want to use these, please update all 3.)

[DragonQ]

Not entirely sure that's any clearer, lol.

[madshi]

Not entirely sure that's any clearer, lol.
You don't think so? Look again: In the blue icon, the "A" is bold. In the red icon, the "V" is bold. The difference might be small, but it's clearly visible, making it intuitive that the blue icon is for audio and the red icon for video. Don't you agree?

[nevcairiel]

I'm not sure i really like it, i liked the slightly bolder L in my originals, and i also prefer a uniform icon just in different colors, maybe i'm weird like that. :)
Maybe i'll give it a try myself, the problem is that at that size the text is rendered with a lot of anti-aliasing/sub-pixel tricks, so directly editing it is tricky - and the icon already is pretty "full" (guess thats why you made the L smaller)

On the other hand, i think people can figure it out just the way it is, and maybe wouldn't even notice the different rendering of the letters.

[madshi]

Well, it's your baby, so you decide. No hard feelings either way. Personally, I do prefer the modified icons, but it's not really important to me.

(Making the "L" bolder again should be no problem at all. Just 2 "copy region" actions in MS Paint. I just preferred it less bold.)

[06_taro]

Let the madshi do his magic... :p

http://madshi.net/lavMadshiDesign.png

(P.S: I've edited all 3. So if you want to use these, please update all 3.)

The border trick is pretty much visible on my mobile phone screen even without enlargement, so I suppose they'll seem great as tray icons. Anyway, if not being used together with FFDShow, the original different colours are already quite distinguishable.

[Gruko]

hi, can i configure lav filters for playing speex audio file in wmp?
Thanks for your great job.

up! ;)

[nevcairiel]

Please don't spam this thread with "up"/"bump" posts, most people here don't use WMP so they can't help you.

[more2read]

I googled a bit, and did not find a quick answer, so sorry if this has already been discussed, or does not fall within Lav Filters .......


Say a Transport Stream has multiple audio streams / channels, Left, Right, and Center, and I want to remix into one?

[clsid]

@Gruko
Speex should already work with default settings in LAV Filters.
WMP does not open unknown file types if you drag&drop them. You need to at least once open the file through File>Open menu to let WMP recognize the new file extension.

@more2read
LAV Audio decoder can only mix channels from a single audio stream. It does not mix audio from multiple streams. But I doubt your Transport Stream uses separate streams for each audio channel.

@nev
Can you add Registry options for show/hide the tray icons? GUI options are less important and can be done later. Perhaps move colorspace options in the video config to a new tab to create some space?

@nev
Any plans for a fallback to normal decoding if audio passthrough fails?

[nevcairiel]

If you use Git builds, you will happen to get incomplete features.

[more2read]

But I doubt your Transport Stream uses separate streams for each audio channel.
Sadly it does.

[mark0077]

quick question, should mpc's "fast seek (on keyframe)" be enabled / disabled, when using with lav splitter / filters. Or does it even matter nowadays. Couldn't find a definitive answer from google searches.

[nevcairiel]

It may cause issues if your file only has very few sync points (some broken encode), but it usually works fine.

[ThurstonX]

Not entirely sure that's any clearer, lol.

You don't think so? Look again: In the blue icon, the "A" is bold. In the red icon, the "V" is bold. The difference might be small, but it's clearly visible, making it intuitive that the blue icon is for audio and the red icon for video. Don't you agree?

madshi, I think you nailed it :-)

[nevcairiel]

So here is a test build with the new tray icons:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-55-g9236124.zip

There is no "advanced" functionality yet, meaning all the icons do is show up, and you can click them to open the the property page of the running filter.
They are disabled by default, all 3 filters have an individual option to turn them on/off.

I'll investigate how much effort would be required for the first draft of a context menu for LAV Splitter to allow stream switching.

Let me know if something odd happens with the icons. Note that if you forcefully kill a process, its icons will stick around until you hover them once, thats nothing that can be fixed, so just don't kill the process. :P

[CiNcH]

Think I missed something but why are deinterlace options not provided for QuickSync? How is deinterlacing handled in this case?

[nevcairiel]

Like with everything, the renderer is supposed to do it.
While QuickSync itself can also do it, i had quite some issues with it when i last tried, so i turned it off. Maybe one of these days i should re-evaluate the situation.

[AndreaMG]

I like the icons and I think the color is the key for telling which one is which. @Nev, if you disable some of the icons in the window menu the next time you play a file they show up all the three of them again :)

[nevcairiel]

The settings for the tray icons seem to save just fine for me.

[AndreaMG]

The settings for the tray icons seem to save just fine for me.
Not for me:) I play a video and all 3 icons appear, then while the video is playing I untick "enable system tray icon" in one of them then the icon disappears, I close MPCHC open a new file and they all reappear
Don't know if this affects this behaviour: I manually copied the files into x86 folder then in MPCH I refreshed the external filters...

[nevcairiel]

All i know is that it works. The fact that the icon disappeared already means the setting was properly saved. So unless for some reason the LAV key in the registry is write protected, but if it was write protected, you couldn't have enabled it in the first place.. :p

[AndreaMG]

All i know is that it works. The fact that the icon disappeared already means the setting was properly saved. So unless for some reason the LAV key in the registry is write protected, but if it was write protected, you couldn't have enabled it in the first place.. :p
oh man don't know what to say...:confused:It could be the options in the tray panel, "show it always" etc...:p Now I reboot the PC. Let's wait for the other users :)

[P.J]

How can I force WMP12 to use LAV as splitter?
I see nothing in LAV Splitter Configuration :(

Any solution? :(

[AndreaMG]

I rebooted, done the process all over again, all 3 icons continue to appear, for me the desabling is not stored :confused::)

[filler56789]

Don't know if this affects this behaviour: I manually copied the files into x86 folder then in MPCH I refreshed the external filters...

Do you mean you overwrote the "old" .ax files BUT you didn't RE-register the "new" ones? :confused:

FWIW, the tray icons are working as they should over here (XP w/ SP3) :)

[Mercury_22]

@Nev Native it's broken now (black screen) and CB (too ?) seems to fallback to software (after latest ffmpeg update ?)

[nevcairiel]

@Nev Native it's broken now (black screen) and CB (too ?) seems to fallback to software (after latest ffmpeg update ?)

Should be fixed.

[Mercury_22]

Should be fixed.

It is :thanks:
After tray icons are done any chance to add up-mixing and independent volume for each channel (to be able to control that annoying lower volume from center and surround channel )?

[nevcairiel]

Not much of a chance for channel volume, no. I told you before, i won't add such things, you will have to wait for a full matrix control.
Upmixing, i have no great interest in that because simple matrix upmixing just sounds bad.

[AndreaMG]

Do you mean you overwrote the "old" .ax files BUT you didn't RE-register the "new" ones? :confused:

FWIW, the tray icons are working as they should over here (XP w/ SP3) :)
Thanks, now I made it work by simply overwriting the files without re-registering the "ax" files and by enabeling only LavVideo the first time I open a file, then I close it and when I reopen a new one only that icon appears (as it should), but if I begin messing with all the other Lav filters by ticking/unticking the tray icon option every single icon appears, maybe I'm doing something wrong, but for now I think I won't touch anything 'cause I need only the Video Icon to be there:)

[bat69]

Any solution? :(

Hello, the way I use WMP12 with all codecs and splitters of LAV filters is disabling all windows codecs and splitters through 'win7dsfiltertweaker'. Disable all included 'Media Foundation' then works exclusively with LAV filters.
Sorry for my bad english.

[the_weirdo]

Hello, the way I use WMP12 with all codecs and splitters of LAV filters is disabling all windows codecs and splitters through 'win7dsfiltertweaker'. Disable all included 'Media Foundation' then works exclusively with LAV filters.
Sorry for my bad english.

Also, you can use Codec Tweak Tool (http://codecguide.com/download_other.htm#codectweaktool) to set preferred DS source filters for various container formats.

[P.J]

Hello, the way I use WMP12 with all codecs and splitters of LAV filters is disabling all windows codecs and splitters through 'win7dsfiltertweaker'. Disable all included 'Media Foundation' then works exclusively with LAV filters.
Sorry for my bad english.

It didn't help. I have the sound but no video =/

[Dogway]

I just want to have noted I solved the issue I talked about on a previous post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1597548#post1597548) in this thread.

AVS files now play seamlessly in MPC-HC using the Windows AVI/WAV File Source (splitter), and AVI Decompressor (Decoder). Now GraphStudio also loads and plays the avs just fine. I don't know what prevented it from working back then, but it really shouldn't be an issue on a healthy/working system. Just to say that the lack of support of LAVfilters for avs files shouldn't be a big deal, which was what I was worried about.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc35/Dogway/whoar_zpscbbb171c.png

Filter : AVI/WAV File Source - CLSID : {D3588AB0-0781-11CE-B03A-0020AF0BA770}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}
Filter: madVR Renderer
Pin: Input

- Connection media type:

Video: YV12 1024x576 14.989fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12 {32315659-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo {05589F80-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 884736
cbFormat: 88

[clsid]

Toggling the tray icon on/off a few times during playback causes a freeze. Seems related to this commit:
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/source/detail?r=000a91cb24ca6cf05532f67c0790f304dba6c950
Problem is gone if I change INFINITE to 2000ms.

[nevcairiel]

Just changing the timeout is obviously a bad idea, because it would result in leaking a thread object if it never closes properly.
Instead, i rewrote the thread it close itself instead of blocking the calling thread, which eliminates the need for the wait entirely.

[boyumeow]

Hi nev,
Just a request, can U make single click to tray icon when opens up menu setting pages to be placed at center of the screens, hope U understands what I mean.
Thanks.

[nevcairiel]

I was looking into centering the settings page, but its not as easy as one might think, but i'll get to it, after the holidays.

[DragonQ]

It's easy in .NET but I guess you're using C++?

[robl45]

i apologize as I'm sure this has been asked 500 times, but just quickly I have been using cuvid and just tried dxva2 with my nvidia gt430 card. cpu usage is with mpc-hc is like half what it is with cuvid. any reason I shouldn't use dxva2 from now on?

[dukey]

I was looking into centering the settings page, but its not as easy as one might think, but i'll get to it, after the holidays.

if its a dialog in VS
go to properties -> position -> centre -> true
;p

[nevcairiel]

It obviously is not.

[Pat357]

i apologize as I'm sure this has been asked 500 times, but just quickly I have been using cuvid and just tried dxva2 with my nvidia gt430 card. cpu usage is with mpc-hc is like half what it is with cuvid. any reason I shouldn't use dxva2 from now on?

If you want to save CPU power (I guess you don't have plenty of it), DVXA native consumes less CPU.
Reason is simple : with CUVID you need an extra copy from frames to CPU-memory, while this is not needed for DXVA native.

So, yes, go for DXVA all the way.

[robl45]

If you want to save CPU power (I guess you don't have plenty of it), DVXA native consumes less CPU.
Reason is simple : with CUVID you need an extra copy from frames to CPU-memory, while this is not needed for DXVA native.

So, yes, go for DXVA all the way.

computer is 5 years old or so so not a lot of power. is cuvid going to be better? what will I be missing?

[boyumeow]

@nev,
There is 1 more thing, I open up the properties page thru' mpc external filters page, if I click the icon it will open up another same properties page again, hope this could be resolved too. I assume U could poke madshi on these matter since he has his icon long enough and I dun see those 2 problems I mention, hehe :D. But if he turn around and poke me, guess I will just lies here dead :p.

Whatever, all these will right after yours Holiday, enjoy and have your happy holiday everyday. :thanks:

[wanezhiling]

http://www.mediafire.com/?bff9fl5pytfegte
Hi nev, lav video decoder failed..

[nevcairiel]

@nev,
There is 1 more thing, I open up the properties page thru' mpc external filters page, if I click the icon it will open up another same properties page again, hope this could be resolved too.

That's not a problem, it's meant to work like that. If you open multiple pages, that's what you get.

[aufkrawall]

Having a problem on an Fusion E-350: It's too slow for DXVA deinterlacing with madVR (even half framerate) and YADIF doesn't work (due to DXVA?).
I think CB wasn't working well. I guess there's no solution?

[nevcairiel]

If your GPU can't even do half-framerate deinterlacing, then you're pretty much screwed. The CPU in the Fusion APUs is very slow as well, so doubtful you could pull of YADIF anyway.

[aufkrawall]

Thanks to DXVA, CPU usage isn't high when playing an HD video.
Later I'll give CB another try, but I'm afraid I'm really screwed. :(

[DragonQ]

Does DXVA2 not work with EVR on an E-350?

[aufkrawall]

Does DXVA2 not work with EVR on an E-350?
It does, but with GPU deinterlacing it's too slow too, at least with VC-1i 1080p.

[Niyawa]

Hey nev, thanks for LAV Filters, has been saving my life since months now. I have a question regarding DXVA2.

I'm using it with 8-bit videos, and it's been working well so far, but there are some videos that DXVA2 simply is not used. I'm not talking about 10-bit. For example, there's this anime with 2 Openings, one of them uses DXVA2 while the other doesn't, even thought they have the same video/container and were encoded with the same settings. I don't believe this is normal so I'm wondering if you have any ideas regarding what could be the cause. I'm using MPC-HC 1.6.6.6373 with madVR and Haali Splitter. Windows 8 x64 with Intel HD 4500. I'm using "DXVA2 (native)".

Sorry if I'm not being more detailed about it.

Edit: Thanks wanez for remembering me, was in madVR thread and forgot about it, 14 seconds is enough I presume? Here:

The one where DXVA2 is used (http://www.mediafire.com/file/umpwp5ckk80qj48/Code_Geass_ED-sample.mkv).
The one where DXVA2 is not used (http://www.mediafire.com/file/yd6y4huazufdtrs/Code_Geass_OP-sample-001.mkv).

[wanezhiling]

You missed the most detailed thing, a sample file.



The one where DXVA2 is not used (http://www.mediafire.com/file/7kugfo3rzl71ybp/Code_Geass_OP-sample.mkv).
Works fine here, haali -> lav native -> madVR

win7 + ivb 4000

[nevcairiel]

Indeed uses DXVA just fine for me too.

[Niyawa]

Works fine here, haali -> lav native -> madVR
win7 + ivb 4000
Indeed uses DXVA just fine for me too.
I guess I maybe found out what is the problem. Seems like when xy-VSFilter is present, it doesn't work. The sample I uploaded was without subs, so no wonder it works there, it worked here too now. Try this one instead (http://www.mediafire.com/file/yd6y4huazufdtrs/Code_Geass_OP-sample-001.mkv), but with xy-VSFilter renderer.

[nevcairiel]

Thats to be expected, any intermediate filter between the decoder and the renderer breaks native DXVA, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[wanezhiling]

Seems like when xy-VSFilter is present, it doesn't work. Try this one instead (http://www.mediafire.com/file/yd6y4huazufdtrs/Code_Geass_OP-sample-001.mkv), but with xy-VSFilter renderer.

:p No need to try, you just need to learn something.

[Niyawa]

Thats to be expected, any intermediate filter between the decoder and the renderer breaks native DXVA, and there is nothing you can do about it.
I see, didn't know about that. But that only happens with native and copy-back or with the others too? (CUVID or Intel QuickSync)

:p No need to try, you just need to learn something.
Indeed. I can literally say I learned something today. Last time I used DXVA was a long time ago when it was still at the first version (which was buggy as hell here), and xy-VSFilter didn't even exist I believe. Lately I've been trying DXVA2 so I could include in my guide, and came across the matter. It worked with internal subtitle but not with xy-VSFilter, I had to ask what exactly the "problem" could be, haha.

[sneaker_ger]

I see, didn't know about that. But that only happens with native and copy-back or with the others too? (CUVID or Intel QuickSync)

Only with DXVA2 native.

xy-vsfilter will be compatible with DXVA2 native and madVR in the not so distant future through a new interface that is similar to that of MPC-HC'S internal subtitle filter, though.

[Niyawa]

Only with DXVA2 native.

xy-vsfilter will be compatible with DXVA2 native and madVR in the not so distant future through a new interface that is similar to that of MPC-HC'S internal subtitle filter, though.
I see. Thanks guys for taking your time with me.

[AndreaMG]

Hi Nev,

I noticed that if I untick "DVD" under "codecs for hardware" the HW deinterlacing does not engages, is it correct? Would be possible to be able to soft decode and HW deinterlace? Thanks :)

[nevcairiel]

That is not possible. If you want hw deinterlacing with software decoding then let the renderer deinterlace.

[AndreaMG]

Thanks Nev.:)

[wanezhiling]

Hi nev, http://www.mediafire.com/?9htn5tj84ckaotz
Tested on lavf 6d05724, 2 issues:

1. Greenscreen with dxva2 native on Nvidia card @310.70whql
2. wrong field order(should be "top first" not "bottom frst"), seems that only cuvid mode is right.

[nevcairiel]

Some files simply have the wrong field order, there is an option to switch it exactly for that reason. :p
Its possible cuvid and ffmpeg have different defaults when no field order can be determined, who knows.

[wanezhiling]

Ok, how about greenscreen on nv card?

coreavc dxva is just fine.

[nevcairiel]

I'm looking into it.

[nevcairiel]

Ok, how about greenscreen on nv card?

Should be fixed.

[wanezhiling]

So fast..cool.:)

[Anima123]

Nev,

There's some glitches (no audio output at the L channel, the audio is stereo) with the audio when playing with a 720p rmvb file with raac audio after seeking for several times. This problem only appear when I use LAV Splitter, no problem with the splitter with mpc-hc 1.6.5 stable.

There's quite a few splitter problems with different containers with LAV Splitter, is there something you can do to improve it?

Anything that may help you tracing the bug, please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,

[nevcairiel]

There's some glitches (no audio output at the L channel, the audio is stereo) with the audio when playing with a 720p rmvb file with raac audio after seeking for several times. This problem only appear when I use LAV Splitter, no problem with the splitter with mpc-hc 1.6.5 stable.

Sample file or it didn't happen.
For the record, RMVB is just a horrible format.


There's quite a few splitter problems with different containers with LAV Splitter, is there something you can do to improve it?

That sounds more like trolling then a bug report.

Accurate problem descriptions, with sample files, or nothing can be done.

For the record, it works just perfectly for me. :p

[Mercury_22]

http://www.mediafire.com/?bff9fl5pytfegte
Hi nev, lav video decoder failed..

I can confirm this but the splitter seems to be the problem cause enabling the internal splitter in MPC-BE (http://aleksoid.voserver.net/MPC-BE/?C=M;O=A) and using lav video and audio the sample it's working using lav splitter it doesn't

[nevcairiel]

The file has a "odd" FourCC used by one specific authoring tool, apparently.
There is two ways to fix such a file, either you overwrite the type in the splitter, or you make the decoder recognize the FourCC, i decided to do the second.

[Mercury_22]

The file has a "odd" FourCC used by one specific authoring tool, apparently.
There is two ways to fix such a file, either you overwrite the type in the splitter, or you make the decoder recognize the FourCC, i decided to do the second.

Seems to be working now :thanks:

[CiNcH]

Why can the ffmpeg parser only be used for the following formats resp. subtypes inside LAV Video?

if(codec == AV_CODEC_ID_MPEG1VIDEO || codec == AV_CODEC_ID_MPEG2VIDEO || pmt->subtype == FOURCCMap(MKTAG('H','2','6','4')) || pmt->subtype == FOURCCMap(MKTAG('h','2','6','4'))) {
m_pParser = av_parser_init(codec);
}

I think that if it was enabled for VC-1, sending fixed size ES chunks from the source filter instead of an exact frame per media sample would work as well, no?

[nevcairiel]

There's some glitches (no audio output at the L channel, the audio is stereo) with the audio when playing with a 720p rmvb file with raac audio after seeking for several times. This problem only appear when I use LAV Splitter, no problem with the splitter with mpc-hc 1.6.5 stable.

I got a sample file from clsid instead.
Try with this version, it should resolve the issue i hope, my own tests seem positive.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-68-ge480b02.zip

[nevcairiel]

I think that if it was enabled for VC-1, sending fixed size ES chunks from the source filter instead of an exact frame per media sample would work as well, no?

I don't think thats everything required for this use-case, depending on the exact behaviour of the source filter other steps may be required - not to mention that this code-path is only used for VC-1 DXVA, sofware decoding (in default settings) uses the wmv9 dmo decoder which can't use the parser yet.

I have it somewhere on my list to try to support splitters which don't deliver VC-1 in Microsofts spec, but it will be a while.

[CiNcH]

not to mention that this code-path is only used for VC-1 DXVA, sofware decoding (in default settings) uses the wmv9 dmo decoder which can't use the parser yet.
I recognized that too. I have seen that the QuickSync path even requires the sequence header as extra data in the connection media type.


BTW, something I did not have a look at yet... how does the QuickSync path work with the fixed size ES chunks that the DVBSource sends in case of MPEG-2 and H.264? Does QuickSync itself perform a NALU/frame parsing for those formats?

[nevcairiel]

I have seen that the QuickSync path even requires the sequence header as extra data in the connection media type.

All decoders require this (except CUVID). The ffmpeg based DXVA decoder and the wmv9 dmo decoder. However, this information is also available in-band, so the decoder could try to delay initialization and wait for this information, so it would be possible to work around this with some effort.


BTW, something I did not have a look at yet... how does the QuickSync path work with the fixed size ES chunks that the DVBSource sends in case of MPEG-2 and H.264? Does QuickSync itself perform a NALU/frame parsing for those formats?
I believe Eric has code for this in the IntelQuickSyncDecoder. Not sure if for VC-1 as well.

[egur]

I believe Eric has code for this in the IntelQuickSyncDecoder. Not sure if for VC-1 as well.
All I do is a basic parse of H264 streams and make sure they are HW compatible (remove AnnexB style info). The Intel Media SDK underneath my decoder does the rest (split or join packets). HW works one frame at time.

[wanezhiling]

The file has a "odd" FourCC used by one specific authoring tool, apparently.
There is two ways to fix such a file, either you overwrite the type in the splitter, or you make the decoder recognize the FourCC, i decided to do the second.

Another similar sample:http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=201287&uk=3558042035

LAV video decoder can not recognize the FourCC, MPC-HC/BE is fine.

[clsid]

If you add "3IV2" for the file above, then you could add "3IV1" as well while you're at it. Both are from 3ivX MPEG-4 encoder.

The rm fix is working great btw.

[nevcairiel]

Another similar sample:http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=201287&uk=3558042035

LAV video decoder can not recognize the FourCC, MPC-HC/BE is fine.

Fixed

If you add "3IV2" for the file above, then you could add "3IV1" as well while you're at it. Both are from 3ivX MPEG-4 encoder.
I added 3ivx, 3iv1 and 3iv2 (and the uppercase variants)


The rm fix is working great btw.

Great!

[Anima123]

Nevcairiel,

Thanks a lot for the fix. I know rm container sucks, however I have plenty of videos in this format.

As I can recall, Kostya said somewhere that he may intended to write a new rm splitter. I hope that he can find some time to do that in the end.

Regards,

[mzso]

Hi!
I have a blu-ray, which shows the movie title (possibly some others too) in a different language if I change the audio languge. I didn't find a way with LAV to change the video stream. So I'm guessing I can't?

[wanezhiling]

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=201574&uk=3558042035

LAVF failed.

[nevcairiel]

http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=201574&uk=3558042035

LAVF failed.

File broken. :p

[wanezhiling]

PotPlayer is fine. (http://i.imgur.com/xrEbj.png)

It uses ffmpeg real codec. :rolleyes:

[nevcairiel]

Not decoding is the problem, but the demuxing fails.

[wanezhiling]

I see. PotPlayer's real splitter is just from offical real company...:o

[nevcairiel]

and LAV or MPC-HCs is not. :p
You can report a bug to ffmpeg or libav, but it just fails at demuxing the file.

[wanezhiling]

http://www.mediafire.com/?ba6444aui5ub6ku

LAVs FLV Splitter (http://i.imgur.com/cDgwx.png)

MPCs FLV Splitter (http://i.imgur.com/E96qU.png) is correct.:p

[Anima123]

Searching problem with wmv files when LAV splitter used

Today I tried LAV splitter for wmv by disable LAV Splitter Source and enable File Source (Async.) and experienced horrible lag of video when seeking. If letting LAV to decide, the M$ splitter will be used, and there's no problem seeking at all.

Is it a recommended way to use LAV Splitter for wmv files? If there's bugs within LAV Splitter for wmv files, could you please look into it Nev?

It is holiday season, I got that. So, no push from me at all. I hope Nev can enjoy his/her real life. Your work on LAV is much appriciated.

[DragonQ]

Who the hell uses Real codecs in 2012? They were terrible ten years ago and Real should've been left to die.

[ryrynz]

wanezhiling goes out of his way to find files that appear to break splitters & decoders or are in fact broken themselves, Real or not.

[VipZ]

Nev, do you still recommend building with VS2010 or could one safely compile with VS2012 now with your provided solution/project files?

[filler56789]

Who the hell uses Real codecs in 2012?

The Far East people, and wanezhiling is from the Far East. :)

They were terrible ten years ago and Real should've been left to die.

Sadly RealMedia still is alive :( and well :confused:

[ryrynz]

Nev, do you still recommend building with VS2010 or could one safely compile with VS2012 now with your provided solution/project files?

He just had that one commit that added support so I think that would be it, Nev isn't one to leave something half done.
Nev, I've been meaning to ask, does that mean your next release will be compiled by VS2012? Or perhaps you could offer a VS2012 version also?

[nevcairiel]

Why would i offer two versions? I never understood this obsession with compilers with MPC-HC or ffdshow, so i'm not going to start it.
I'll continue to use VS2010 for the forseeable future, because i'm no big fan of the VS2012 UI myself.

How well VS2012 builds work? I have no clue. I know it builds and it plays some files, if it behaves exactly the same as VS2010 or if there are any hidden bugs only present in a VS2012 build, i cannot say yet, and for obvious reasons until i myself switch, i cannot support builds with it.

[SamuriHL]

I can only speak for myself on this. I prefer to keep only one compiler installed. It's helpful if it's the latest compiler simply cause MS tends to focus on that the most for bug fixes, new features, whatever. For me, however, it's not an obsession. I don't much care what compiler is needed as long as I can compile what I need. Still, if I can compile everything with VS2012 then I'll reinstall it and get rid of 2010. I compile on my laptop so it's mostly a space thing for me.

Others, I think, are under the mistaken impression that compiling with the newest compiler is somehow going to make the product better or faster. Neither of which are particularly true. It's that whole "newer is better" mentality.

[nevcairiel]

http://www.mediafire.com/?ba6444aui5ub6ku

LAVs FLV Splitter (http://i.imgur.com/cDgwx.png)

MPCs FLV Splitter (http://i.imgur.com/E96qU.png) is correct.:p

The file was taken down.

[ryrynz]

Why would i offer two versions?


I figured XP compatibility was still an issue here.


I never understood this obsession with compilers with MPC-HC or ffdshow, so i'm not going to start it.


There's probably little in it but it would be nice to compare.


I'll continue to use VS2010 for the forseeable future, because i'm no big fan of the VS2012 UI myself.


I've heard that complaint before, fair enough.


How well VS2012 builds work? I have no clue.

Guess we'll just wait for someone to compile one.


Others, I think, are under the mistaken impression that compiling with the newest compiler is somehow going to make the product better or faster. Neither of which are particularly true. It's that whole "newer is better" mentality.

I've read about a number of improvements to VS2012, besides the UI, I got the impression it was overall a better compiler.

[ranpha]

VS2012 build works just fine, but it is not going to be faster than VS2010 build.


Core i3-3220 + GTX460. Test file is a random H264 m2ts file I ripped from a Blu-ray disc.

avcodec:-
Visual Studio 2012 Update 1 SSE2
122.68

Visual Studio 2010 SP1 SSE
124.1

QuickSync:-
ICL13 Update 1 SSE4.1
387.05

Visual Studio 2012 Update 1 SSE2
385.12

Visual Studio 2010 SP1 SSE
381.93

CUVID:-
Visual Studio 2012 Update 1 SSE2
63.77

Visual Studio 2010 SP1 SSE
63.78

[ryrynz]

Cheers for that, it's good to see the actual numbers.

[turbojet]

There's a problem with cuvid when resolution isn't mod4. Bad lines at the bottom, more explanation at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=166811

avc, mpeg2, vc-1 are affected, I can't test mpeg4 asp. Here's a clip (http://www.sendspace.com/file/g5w1xm) encoded in the 4 different formats that might help diagnose. avcodec, dxvacb dxvan (h.264 only) and quicksync have no problem.

[wanezhiling]

The file was taken down.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/m2oii6

Try this.

[nevcairiel]

VS2012 build works just fine, but it is not going to be faster than VS2010 build.
The only parts which may change in speed are the custom converters, like using RGB output. Any other performance critical code is built with GCC anyway.

There's a problem with cuvid when resolution isn't mod4. Bad lines at the bottom, more explanation at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=166811

avc, mpeg2, vc-1 are affected, I can't test mpeg4 asp. Here's a clip (http://www.sendspace.com/file/g5w1xm) encoded in the 4 different formats that might help diagnose. avcodec, dxvacb dxvan (h.264 only) and quicksync have no problem.

I cannot reproduce any issues anymore, but i did fix something like that a while ago (after the last release). Try with this version:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-68-ge480b02.zip

[VipZ]

Been testing my VS2012 build. So far there are no issues.
Tested colour conversion, sound output/mixing, deinterlacing, audio bitstreaming, DXVA copyback etc.

[nevcairiel]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/m2oii6

Try this.

Wasn't this supposed to be a FLV and not a MKV. o.O

Edit:
Oh its just named wrong.

[nevcairiel]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/m2oii6

Try this.

The file has a "duration" metadata which says 390 seconds, which translates to 6:30, so the file has just broken metadata.
MPC-HC doesn't read the metadata and instead tries to find the duration by seeking around in the stream, but ffmpeg reads the metadata and trusts it. Since FLV is primarily a streaming format, using the metadata is a much better choice.

[wanezhiling]

The duration of original file is http://i2.minus.com/i5VkibvRuEz7b.png

LAV reads the metadata http://i4.minus.com/iboJpW8BXbo4oV.png

Since FLV is primarily a streaming format, using the metadata is a much better choice.
Ok thanks for your explanation, its valuable for me.

[turbojet]

I cannot reproduce any issues anymore, but i did fix something like that a while ago (after the last release). Try with this version:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-68-ge480b02.zip

That fixed it, thanks!

[6233638]

Well here's a new problem. Just tried watching the DVD of Hard Boiled, and when using LAV Video for decoding - either DXVA or CPU decoding - subtitles are displayed as being translucent.
If I disable LAV Video, it seems that the subtitles are animated to fade in and out for each line spoken, and LAV only appears to display the first frame (almost transparent) for the entire duration.
First frame the subtitle appears in (http://www.abload.de/img/first-framec1zxp.jpg)
A few frames further, using the MPC-HC decoder (http://www.abload.de/img/late-framekkxna.jpg)
The result with LAV Video decoding (http://www.abload.de/img/lav-videowvag9.jpg)
I'll happily send you a sample, but I'm not quite sure how to grab a clip that includes all the subtitles etc.
(don't worry about the drop in resolution with the MPC-HC screenshot, I hadn't configured it at all, so it wasn't being deinterlaced)

[nevcairiel]

Well you will have to provide some kind of sample. If there are subtitles early in the main movie, provide all the menu files (IFO/BUP, VIDEO_TS.VOB, VTS_x_0.VOBs), and a cut of the main content file, enough to show the affected sub line. If the start has no subs like this, it'll get quite complicated, because the timing will probably have to match some timing in the IFO files, so you can't create a cut from the middle of the disc.

As an alternative, i could try to add extensive logging for all DVD related events and you could create a log with a debug build.

[leeperry]

I captured a bunch of youtube videos and I could either choose them to be in MP4 or WEBM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebM) containers, the former work just fine with LAV but the latter don't seem to be (fully) supported? or at least they stuttered like hell in PotP :o

[wanezhiling]

Why not PotPlayer's fault? PotPlayer has many compatibility issues with famous external filters, madVR, ffdshow, VSfilter, AV Splitter, LAV Filters...

[doubleJ]

So, I've been using FFDShow for years (by virtue of CCCP).
Now, I've switched to Lav Audio (by virtue of CCCP).
My receiver doesn't support AAC, but I could do a real-time transcode to AC3 with FFDShow (AC3Filter used to work, as well).
How do I go about doing that with Lav Audio?
I read something about using ReClock and WASAPI, but I'd rather not have to install something on top of CCCP if I didn't have to (I didn't have to with 2011-11-11).
JJ

[nevcairiel]

LAV is a decoder, it does not offer transcoding features like that, and never will.

I captured a bunch of youtube videos and I could either choose them to be in MP4 or WEBM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebM) containers, the former work just fine with LAV but the latter don't seem to be (fully) supported? or at least they stuttered like hell in PotP :o

WebM is just Matroska, it works just fine for me.
If you have a specific sample, upload it somewhere, but i recommend also trying briefly in another player.

[JEEB]

So, I've been using FFDShow for years (by virtue of CCCP).
Now, I've switched to Lav Audio (by virtue of CCCP).
My receiver doesn't support AAC, but I could do a real-time transcode to AC3 with FFDShow (AC3Filter used to work, as well).
JJ
As nevcairiel has already said, as it is only a decoder, there is no such feature. You can basically register your favourite encoder via the DirectShow filter in MPC-HC's external filters listing as "preferred" and enabling re-encoding there when needed. I just checked this with the "ffdshow Audio Processor" filter and it seems to generally work (tested with mixing enabled in it and disabled in LAV, but I would guess re-encoding would work as well).

I'll have to look into this generally, and then write up a FAQ entry about it as relatively many people still seem to need S/PDIF level 5.1 bit streaming from sources that aren't such to begin with. Also I'll have to see which of the alternatives is the most useful in such regard (and most unobtrusive while doing it).

[nevcairiel]

Well here's a new problem. Just tried watching the DVD of Hard Boiled, and when using LAV Video for decoding - either DXVA or CPU decoding - subtitles are displayed as being translucent.
If I disable LAV Video, it seems that the subtitles are animated to fade in and out for each line spoken, and LAV only appears to display the first frame (almost transparent) for the entire duration.
First frame the subtitle appears in (http://www.abload.de/img/first-framec1zxp.jpg)
A few frames further, using the MPC-HC decoder (http://www.abload.de/img/late-framekkxna.jpg)
The result with LAV Video decoding (http://www.abload.de/img/lav-videowvag9.jpg)


Try this build, it should support fade-in/fade-out animations like those:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-76-gd52abc1.zip

In theory it would also be possible to do color or position animations with the same mechanic in the DVD decoder, but without a sample which actually uses this, i'm a bit reluctant to hack it in there.
If someone finds a sample DVD with subs which should be animated, but LAV does not do it, please let me know.

[bugmen0t]

can you split cheklist filter on hardware acceleration from HD to HD(720) and full HD (1080p)

current lav filter(54.1) . HD cheklist is both 720 and 1080. thats annoying
you should not put 720 and 1080 on the same checklist. 1080p is called full HD, beyond that is Ultra HD

i request this because my gpu is not strong for 1080p(full HD)dxva2
but still able to handle 720p(HD) dxva2

so i want to disable hardware acceleration on content higher than 720p

[wanezhiling]

:p My old 8400M GS is easy for 1080p dxva2.

[doubleJ]

As nevcairiel has already said, as it is only a decoder, there is no such feature. You can basically register your favourite encoder via the DirectShow filter in MPC-HC's external filters listing as "preferred" and enabling re-encoding there when needed. I just checked this with the "ffdshow Audio Processor" filter and it seems to generally work (tested with mixing enabled in it and disabled in LAV, but I would guess re-encoding would work as well).

I'll have to look into this generally, and then write up a FAQ entry about it as relatively many people still seem to need S/PDIF level 5.1 bit streaming from sources that aren't such to begin with. Also I'll have to see which of the alternatives is the most useful in such regard (and most unobtrusive while doing it).
Yeah, most .mp4 files use AAC-LC audio and most receivers don't.
Hehehe...
So, I'll need to install FFDShow or AC3Filter, then?
That's unfortunate.
JJ

[andyvt]

So, I'll need to install FFDShow or AC3Filter, then?
That's unfortunate.
JJ

Or Reclock, or use HDMI...

[doubleJ]

Or Reclock, or use HDMI...
I use HDMI, but my receiver doesn't decode AAC.
I'll check into ReClock.
JJ

[andyvt]

I use HDMI, but my receiver doesn't decode AAC.


If you use HDMI you get all the channels. Why do you want to do another lossy encode when that can only make it sound worse?

[nevcairiel]

you should not put 720 and 1080 on the same checklist. 1080p is called full HD, beyond that is Ultra HD

I'm not going to change this. Personally i don't see the use, even the slowest GPUs can use DXVA on Full HD content because the decoder is independent of the actual GPU speed.

And even if it would help you for some obscure reasons, its a *very* limited use-case and would just clutter the options.

Heck, the option was only meant to be for 4K in the first place, but apparently some old ATI GPUs are broken with SD content, so i added it too for that case, but not for performance reasons.

[6233638]

Try this build, it should support fade-in/fade-out animations like those:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-76-gd52abc1.zip

In theory it would also be possible to do color or position animations with the same mechanic in the DVD decoder, but without a sample which actually uses this, i'm a bit reluctant to hack it in there.
If someone finds a sample DVD with subs which should be animated, but LAV does not do it, please let me know.That did the trick, they seem to work as intended now. I actually really dislike having the animation, but obviously it's necessary to be able to read the subtitles at all.
Ideally I would actually prefer to have the entire duration of the subtitle being the middle frame of the animation (i.e. full brightness all the time) but obviously that's an unrealistic request, and would probably break some titles.

I don't think I have any other examples of animated subtitles; at least not any that fade in like that. I may find out that some of the discs I have fade them out or something.

[wanezhiling]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qeqjs0
Hi nev, here is a PMP file, it works fine with [lav s + lav v, ms v], cant work with [lav s + mpc v, ffdshow v, coreavc...]

Is it because mpc/ffdshow/coreavc cant accept the h264 stream which lav sends? If so, I'll report to other places.

[nevcairiel]

Should be fixed in LAV Splitter, i hope this didn't break other PMP files, i don't have any to check. ;)

[jmonier]

I use HDMI, but my receiver doesn't decode AAC.
I'll check into ReClock.
JJ

If you're using HDMI AUDIO, then LAV Audio will decode AAC and it's sent over HDMI as PCM which your receiver will handle just fine. I don't know if you know that you don't HAVE to bitstream anything. LAV will decode almost anything to PCM and there will be no loss of quality vs. decoding it in the receiver.

[wanezhiling]

Should be fixed in LAV Splitter, i hope this didn't break other PMP files, i don't have any to check. ;)

Thanks, I will test my other 5 PMP files tomorrow.

[doubleJ]

If you use HDMI you get all the channels. Why do you want to do another lossy encode when that can only make it sound worse?
Ummm...
My receiver doesn't decode AAC.
It only sees down-mixed stereo.

Sent from my Verizon HTC 8X using Board Express

[andyvt]

Ummm...
My receiver doesn't decode AAC.
It only sees down-mixed stereo.


If you're using HDMI it doesn't matter where you decode the audio.

Transcoding AAC to AC3 isn't going to do anything but lose information. I assumed that you wanted to do this because the only reason to do it is if you're using S/PDIF (why the feature exists in Reclock/Ffdshow/AC3Filter).

If the file has mutli-channel AAC and you're getting stereo, your PC is setup wrong.

[JEEB]

Ummm...
My receiver doesn't decode AAC.
It only sees down-mixed stereo.

Sent from my Verizon HTC 8X using Board Express
What andyvt says, I thought you were on an S/PDIF setup as well (although even if you use HDMI you might be limited by derpy hardware regarding what you can push through it, esp. with video cards).

If you want to get full decoded PCM out of the decoder, you either just set the LAV's mixer to as many channels as your speaker setup, or just disable the mixer. Both are doable either through LAV Audio's settings screen or from the settings application that I think you have at hand.

[turbojet]

54.1-76 build fixes the bad lines when height isn't mod4 with cuvid but there's a bigger issue, it crops and vertically stretches SD material. Take a look at the fox logo and rating in these pics, same frame isn't important.

SD cuvid, cropped\stretched (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0bd8f4229492116)
SD avcodec, fine (http://www.imagebam.com/image/5f1817229492127)
HD cuvid, fine (http://www.imagebam.com/image/9e5d8e229492143)

[nevcairiel]

It was not related to the material being SD, just that it requires cropping (ie. not mod16).
But it is fixed now.

[wanezhiling]

Should be fixed in LAV Splitter, i hope this didn't break other PMP files, i don't have any to check. ;)

Now LAV Splitter works with other h.264 video decoders, but I noticed a Audio/Video sync problem after seeking on that file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/qeqjs0).

You can seek in [0:01:38 - 0:02:06] and [0:04:18 - 0:05:00], its apparent that the video is delayed compared to the audio.

While PotPlayer's PMP splitter(based on FFmpeg too) seems to be ok.

LAV Splitter (http://i.minus.com/iWbu1eR8JpFD9.png)

PotPlayer (http://i.minus.com/ibxACCF7AOcGtG.png)

[Qaq]

Ummm...
My receiver doesn't decode AAC.
It only sees down-mixed stereo.
Because your receiver is set to pass sound to TV (which is 2 ch). Check receiver's settings carefully.

[nevcairiel]

Now LAV Splitter works with other h.264 video decoders, but I noticed a Audio/Video sync problem after seeking on that file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/qeqjs0).

Looks like PMP files don't have timestamps, so their sync is always just sheer luck, but i found the reason it was totally off, and it should be improved now.

[bugmen0t]

:p My old 8400M GS is easy for 1080p dxva2.
my gpu is strong too but not for madvr

I'm not going to change this. Personally i don't see the use, even the slowest GPUs can use DXVA on Full HD content because the decoder is independent of the actual GPU speed.

And even if it would help you for some obscure reasons, its a *very* limited use-case and would just clutter the options.

Heck, the option was only meant to be for 4K in the first place, but apparently some old ATI GPUs are broken with SD content, so i added it too for that case, but not for performance reasons.

oh comoene, please i think its easy thing for you to make fullHD cheklist for filtering 1080p.

my gpu's actually able to play 1080p dxva2 fine with EVR, but not strong for Madvr dxva2. thats why i request it. please. do it for me and other user ;)

[pie1394]

About this ISDB-T sample, its 5.1ch AAC is unsupported by Lav audio decoder. The MS DTV/DVD-Audio can decode it, but the output is always 2 channels.

TS sample (https://hotfile.com/dl/185596632/ddef693/ayaka_MSSL12.ts.html)

[nevcairiel]

About this ISDB-T sample, its 5.1ch AAC is unsupported by Lav audio decoder. The MS DTV/DVD-Audio can decode it, but the output is always 2 channels.

TS sample (https://hotfile.com/dl/185596632/ddef693/ayaka_MSSL12.ts.html)

Fixed for LAV Audio, not sure if the MS decoder still works with it, but i don't particularly care. :D
AAC in TS is a bit of a problem, because some decoders require init data, but TS does not offer the init data, and i haven't found an easy way to extract it from the audio stream.

Luckily, LAV Audio does not need this init data. :)

[jmonier]

Because your receiver is set to pass sound to TV (which is 2 ch). Check receiver's settings carefully.

Actually, it's probably the sound settings in the computer. This usually defaults to stereo and has to be set to 5.1 (or 7.1).

[Gruko]

@Gruko
Speex should already work with default settings in LAV Filters.
WMP does not open unknown file types if you drag&drop them. You need to at least once open the file through File>Open menu to let WMP recognize the new file extension.

Thank you very much. Solved problem! ;)

P.S. Strangely, WMP recognizes other multimedia files such as MKV, Opus, MP4, M4A etc.. if they are played by the 'open with' context menu item or drag & drop.

[ralle_h]

Hey,

I wanted to ask if Intel® Quick Sync is implemented yet? I have two systems with Intel Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs and when I try to use Quicksync in the settings, it tells me that it is not available :(

Any help or answer would be appreciated!

Best regards,
Ralle

[nevcairiel]

You need to have the Intel GPU activated and a screen connected (or a fake screen), because the GPU does the decoding, not the CPU.

[ralle_h]

It is, there is no other GPU in the system other than the IGP.

Do I need special drivers other than the latest MEI and IGPU driver, like Luicid Virtu?

[nevcairiel]

You need a proper driver, install the one from Intel directly, not the crap Microsoft gives you from Windows Update.

[ralle_h]

I downloaded the driver from Intel directly, I even tried the new one from this December and it didn't make a difference:

http://www.abload.de/img/gpurzbpx.png

Do I need any Virtu related drivers?

I'm using an i3-2120 with latest MPC-BE btw (and latest EVR/madVR as renderer).

[pie1394]

Fixed for LAV Audio, not sure if the MS decoder still works with it, but i don't particularly care. :D
AAC in TS is a bit of a problem, because some decoders require init data, but TS does not offer the init data, and i haven't found an easy way to extract it from the audio stream.

Luckily, LAV Audio does not need this init data. :)

So fast ... fixed within 1 hour!!! :eek: :thanks:

[pie1394]

I'm using an i3-2120 with latest MPC-BE btw (and latest EVR/madVR as renderer).

It just works fine on my Toshiba Z830 with Core i5-2467M. The driver version is 9.17.10.2875. It shows that Intel QuickSync option is available on Lav video decoder with following 2 setups:

MPC-BE v1.1.3.0 + Lav 0.54.1 + madVR 0.85.7
MPC-BE64 v1.1.3.0 + Lav x64 0.54.1 + EVR


What kind of contents?

Do you use Lav filter ?

Does dxva2n or dxva2cb mode work ?

DirectX runtime redistributable jun 2010 is installed?

[ralle_h]

Hi pie1394!

Thanks for your reply.

I tried driver version 9.17.10.2875 + 2897.

MPC-BE v1.0.3.1 + Lav 0.54.1 + madVR 0.85.7 (and previously 0.85.1)

/edit: Tried v1.1.3.0 now, same issue :(

Does dxva2n or dxva2cb mode work [YES]

DirectX runtime redistributable jun 2010 is installed [YES]

-

Does my Mainboard (ASRock H77M-ITX) support Quick Sync? Any additional driver like Lucidlogix Virtu needed?

/edit:

Okay, checked on all my computers...

Desktop with HD4000: Doesn't work
Ultraboock with HD4000: DOES work.

Copied the mpc-be.ini from my Ultrabook to my Desktop... didn't change a thing. So it can't be the MPC settings basically.

Same IGP driver version, OpenCL SDK installed on both. Only difference is the OS (got Win8 Pro on my Ultrabook).

This is starting to get really confusing :(

[AndreaMG]

Hi Nev,

yesterday I was watching a TV show (mkv) and I encountered broken audio in various parts, I thought it was the file but playing with VLC the audio seems ok, can you please take a look at this sample (it has been cutted with MKVToolnix)? Thanks :)

It mutes from 17s to 21s :(

The issue occurs only in bistreaming mode (FFdshow audio decoder has the same identical behaviour: HDMI=broken audio).

http://www.mediafire.com/?clqoa8agi2gm12n

[egur]

Hey,

I wanted to ask if Intel® Quick Sync is implemented yet? I have two systems with Intel Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs and when I try to use Quicksync in the settings, it tells me that it is not available :(

Any help or answer would be appreciated!

Best regards,
Ralle

Please take this up with the Intel QuickSync decoder thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162442).
Try to write a more detailed setup:
Windows version, make and model of your HW, players you tried, etc.

[iSunrise]

Thanks a lot for LAV, nevcairiel. I´ve been using it since you implemented audio-downmixing and never looked back. I wish you a happy and healthy new year, too.

I have some files that suddenly cannot be opened with LAV Splitter/LAV Splitter Source as the splitter filter configured. They still all play perfectly fine with e.x. VLC, PotPlayer, KMPlayer or GOMPlayer.

EDIT: Samples removed, see post #13659.

[wanezhiling]

LAV Splitter works fine here.

[iSunrise]

LAV Splitter works fine here.
Thanks for your feedback, wanezhiling. I´ve just reinstalled the whole LAVFilters 0.54.1 package (.exe) and even though I had configured LAV Splitter for matroska in the splitter configuration utility, it looks like that doesn´t really mean that the system knows that is has to open .mkv containers with LAV splitter. So I guess what did the trick was to reinstall the splitter again and enable matroska in the setup itself. Very confusing, but now it works again.

@nev: Just ignore my previous report please, I´ve also taken down the samples, they all work fine again.

[wanezhiling]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/eh7zxi
nev, lav cant recognize its audio.

[nevcairiel]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/eh7zxi
nev, lav cant recognize its audio.

If the name of the file can be trusted, the audio is in Dolby E format, for which there is no support in ffmpeg or any other DirectShow decoder i know of, not much that can be done.

[ThurstonX]

If the name of the file can be trusted, the audio is in Dolby E format, for which there is no support in ffmpeg or any other DirectShow decoder i know of, not much that can be done.
Love these forums. Learn something every day :-)

from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_E

"Dolby E never reaches home viewers, it is used when passing material between production facilities and broadcasters, but is decoded before transmission.

Dolby E encoding and decoding is implemented using commercially available hardware or software."

So, not meant for home consumption, I guess.

[wanezhiling]

I downloaded that file from a chinese forum and had no idea how to make it work.

Ok thanks for your info, btw is it really that no software can support Dolby E?

[Pomegranate]

I don't know about free software that supports Dolby E, but Minnetonka have this :
http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=75&lang=en

[HeadlessCow]

Some files simply have the wrong field order, there is an option to switch it exactly for that reason. :p
Its possible cuvid and ffmpeg have different defaults when no field order can be determined, who knows.

There are a couple of settings like this that I think could be made a lot more usable with the new notification icons that you added.

In the usual case, for a setting like this you want it to be set to auto, but there are a few files that it fails on and the user will need to:
1) Open up the filter configuration
2) Change the setting
3) Watch the video
4) Open up the filter configuration
5) Change the setting back to auto

With the new notification options it would be really slick if you could add a way to change the setting for this file only. That way when the user discovers a broken file, they can just enable the fix and the filter will revert back to the default setting when they load the next file.

[dead_screem]

when you add stream switching to the tray icons, will you finally add ts program switching? or is that far off still?

[nevcairiel]

when you add stream switching to the tray icons, will you finally add ts program switching? or is that far off still?

Tray icons will expose existing features, i have no immediate plans to prioritize any other features just because there are tray icons now.

[Monk_Zero]

When using LAV splitter, mkv containers support MPC-HC's keybinding for Jump Forward (keyframe) and Jump Backward (keyframe), which let you move through a video very cleanly (because by nature keyframes are often at scene/shot changes). But for AVI and MP4 containers it doesn't seem that LAV Splitter responds to the keyframe keybindings. Should they be behaving similarly to mkv containers and moving to the Prev/Next keyframe and I'm just having difficulty or is this not an (as yet?) implemented function?

It may be that this is related to this Issue but it hasn't had progress in a year after mentioning mkv seeking development.
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=6&can=1&q=keyframe&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Filter%20Summary

[nevcairiel]

This only really works if the file exposes a list of keyframes to use for this, which is only really reliable for Matroska so far. It may be possible to get this to work with MP4 as well, but unlikely to ever work properly with AVI.

[Monk_Zero]

This only really works if the file exposes a list of keyframes to use for this, which is only really reliable for Matroska so far. It may be possible to get this to work with MP4 as well, but unlikely to ever work properly with AVI.

As a fallback, I've been using the AVI and MP4 splitter included in MPC-HC's internal filters which go forward and backward along keyframes successfully for those containers. I can't say what their mechanism is to find keyframes or if they're approximating keyframes but it seems to be generally accurate.

[ralle_h]

Please take this up with the Intel QuickSync decoder thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162442).
Try to write a more detailed setup:
Windows version, make and model of your HW, players you tried, etc.

Thanks!

Will do!

[wanezhiling]

Today I downloaded a mkv file which has 2 editions, this is my first time to play such files.

Well, like the Open Linked Files feature, haali is needed for the file.

nev, is there a possibility that LAV supports muti-editions files one day? Haali is really out of date.

[nevcairiel]

Its really the same feature.

I plan to get to this "soon", meaning sometime in the next few month or so.
If anyone has simple samples that demonstrate either external linked segments or editions within one file, please do share.

[Snowknight26]

If anyone has simple samples that demonstrate either external linked segments or editions within one file, please do share.

http://stfcc.org/misc/mkv_ordered_chapters_example.mkv
http://stfcc.org/misc/mkv_ordered_chapters_example.xml

[Volfield]

Its really the same feature.

I plan to get to this "soon", meaning sometime in the next few month or so.
If anyone has simple samples that demonstrate either external linked segments or editions within one file, please do share.

"Optional test file for testing splitter's segment linking capabilities: 3x H.264 anamorphic 1080p video clips with styled subtitles [MediaInfo] – K-On!! episode 6 – download here."

http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-compute-unified-device-architecture-cuda/

[nevcairiel]

Thanks, that should help. Always easier to have files to work with than having to go hunt them down first. ;)

[Devrim]

This file I have does not seem to be compatible with CUVID in LAV. Any idea why?

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:4:4 Predictive@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 6 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 14mn 48s
Bit rate : 27.7 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 1 744 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.161
Stream size : 2.86 GiB (90%)
Title : 4096x1744p (2.35:1), 24 fps, x264@Hi444PP ~28261 kbps
Writing library : x264 core 125 r2200MMod 999b753
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=6 / deblock=1:-2:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=tesa / subme=11 /
psy=1 / fade_compensate=0.50 / psy_rd=0.50:0.05 / mixed_ref=1 /
me_range=48 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=3 /
threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2
/ sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 /
bframes=16 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 /
keyint=250 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=16.0
/ qcomp=0.75 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=81 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.20 / zones=67,117,b=1.5/2477,2527,b=1.5/3611,3636,b=1.5
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

[wanezhiling]

Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4
Bit depth : 10 bits
Only 8bit 4:2:0 files support HWA decoding,

[Devrim]

Only 8bit 4:2:0 files support HWA decoding,

Thanks for the quick answer. Do you know if this is a hardware limitation or software limitation?

[wanezhiling]

The former, at least the driver doesn't support and never.

[robpdotcom]

If anyone has simple samples that demonstrate either external linked segments or editions within one file, please do share.

Here's some samples I created that demonstrate 3 types:
http://www.mediafire.com/?26p251ej90bn9k7

If you play "File Linking1.mkv", it will append "Segment2.mkv" by way of the segment uid in the Matroska header.

If you play "Segment Linking1.mkv", it will also append "Segment2.mkv", but this time via the segment uid in the ordered chapters.

"Ordered Chapters.mkv" is one file that contains the same parts as the first 2 examples, but with a 3rd segment in the middle. The ordered chapters will skip the 3rd segment and play as it should. It also contains a second edition, which will play only the 3rd segment.

[wanezhiling]

http://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/NdWi7KLfoMaiMRNcrfpjmQ

Hope it will be helpful for you.:)

[wanezhiling]

http://1f0.de/lav-splitter/lav-splitter-stream-selection/
“Default”

The “Default” mode will select subtitles in accordance with the typical interpretation of the Matroska spec. That means that subtitles matching your language preference will be loaded, as well as subtitles marked “default” or “forced”. If none of these factors apply, no subtitles will be loaded.
Since “Default” mode is used by most people(at least 95%+), I think showing a subtitle is always much kinder in case some people complain.

I suggest:

A file with only one subtitle, whether its marked “default”“forced” or not, just load it.

A file with several subtitles, neither “default” or “forced” flag exists, load the first subtitle.

What do you think nev?:)

[nevcairiel]

The current mode works just fine. I don't like showing subtitles by default.

[DragonQ]

I suggest:

A file with only one subtitle, whether its marked “default”“forced” or not, just load it.

A file with several subtitles, neither “default” or “forced” flag exists, load the first subtitle.

What do you think nev?:)
I'm sorry, what? Most files (especially from "official" sources) have subtitles but most people don't want/need them.

Forced subtitles should obviously be shown by default though.

[wanezhiling]

I don't like showing subtitles by default.
Simple and clear, ok i got it.

[e-t172]

rundll32 considered harmful (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2013/01/04/10382242.aspx)

@nevcairiel: maybe you should build a small EXE for the configuration options instead of running rundll32 in a shortcut.

[JEEB]

rundll32 considered harmful (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2013/01/04/10382242.aspx)

@nevcairiel: maybe you should build a small EXE for the configuration options instead of running rundll32 in a shortcut.
I have a feeling looking at that text that it is a comment regarding some actual code being run with rundll32 (possibly as a scheduled task), not just registering a DirectShow filter :)

edit: yeah, indeed
That is not the same question asked by this customer. The customer was asking to choose between writing a standalone exe or writing a DLL that is called via rundll32. Your question is about using an existing DLL designed for rundll32. -Raymond

[filler56789]

I have a feeling looking at that text that it is a comment regarding some actual code being run with rundll32 (possibly as a scheduled task), not just registering a DirectShow filter :)

You meant "configuring" alright. Because registering a "registerable" :D DLL is done with regsvr32, not with rundll32. ;)

[JEEB]

You meant "configuring" alright. Because registering a "registerable" :D DLL is done with regsvr32, not with rundll32. ;)
Ugh, I blame my timezone.

[VipZ]

Here is a modified version of LAVFilterSetttings done by andyvt here on doom9. I mostly just updated to support all current LAV Filters, removed merit settings and few cosmetics to keep it simple.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?a55ac9ooao09ex4

Modified source/exe in the rar file.

[Niyawa]

Hey people, I have a question regarding Haali and LAV Splitter, but I don't know if there's a answer or not to this. It's quite simple though.

When I'm using LAV Splitter, for any format or extension, if I do some type of work in the computer that requires a determined amount of the CPU, the video and audio starts to stutter, but that doesn't happen with Haali at all. For example, if I open a page on Chrome, it will make the video stutter with LAV, but with Haali it will keep playing normally like nothing's happened. Could it be because LAV still needs work in the performance section, or there's anything else I might be forgetting?

[Dodgexander]

I am using NPVR for the playback of live tv (DVB T2) in the UK.

For some reason, whilst using LAV audio or LAV video during playback, I cannot see the info like I usual can in the lav audio or video screens. (attached screenshot shows cyberlink, but i have the problem when using lav video too and it appears there)

Lav audio shows off-line, with no output tab and lav video shows inactive.

Is there any reason for this? They show in the graph:
http://aluminas.net/images/e51e52.png
Secondly, in the graph, the properties of lav audio handling HE-AAC are seen. I am confused by the section that mentions 5ch 44.1khz and the section beneath that says 2channel.

The ts file itself reads 5.1 HE-AAC audio at 48khz, not 44.1khz.

How can I make sure that LAV is picking up the stream correctly?

[nevcairiel]

Hey people, I have a question regarding Haali and LAV Splitter, but I don't know if there's a answer or not to this. It's quite simple though.

When I'm using LAV Splitter, for any format or extension, if I do some type of work in the computer that requires a determined amount of the CPU, the video and audio starts to stutter, but that doesn't happen with Haali at all. For example, if I open a page on Chrome, it will make the video stutter with LAV, but with Haali it will keep playing normally like nothing's happened. Could it be because LAV still needs work in the performance section, or there's anything else I might be forgetting?

Its possible Haali increases the priority of its threads.
If you want your video take priority over any other tasks on the PC, you should increase the priority of the player, and not rely on some filter to do it for you. I believe MPC-HC has an option to increase its priority.


Secondly, in the graph, the properties of lav audio handling HE-AAC are seen. I am confused by the section that mentions 5ch 44.1khz and the section beneath that says 2channel.

The ts file itself reads 5.1 HE-AAC audio at 48khz, not 44.1khz.

How can I make sure that LAV is picking up the stream correctly?
The values in the "Input" section come from the MPEG Demuxer, and are not defined by LAV. As long as the values in the bottom part ("AAC Decoder Specific") appear correct, everything is fine (2 channel, 48000Hz).
You can check the values on the "Output" tab, it will give you the real info on what LAV is decoding and sending onwards.

[Niyawa]

Its possible Haali increases the priority of its threads.
If you want your video take priority over any other tasks on the PC, you should increase the priority of the player, and not rely on some filter to do it for you. I believe MPC-HC has an option to increase its priority.
Oh it worked. Thanks. But that's strange. I looked here and Task Manager didn't show the process with anything other than "Normal", so either Haali did that silently without Windows noticing, or there's something else we might have forgotten but oh well. A lot of people claim LAV is inferior to Haali in the performance topic, now I get what is the "issue".

[nevcairiel]

Oh it worked. Thanks. But that's strange. I looked here and Task Manager didn't show the process with anything other than "Normal", so either Haali did that silently without Windows noticing, or there's something else we might have forgotten but oh well. A lot of people claim LAV is inferior to Haali in the performance topic, now I get what is the "issue".

If you can clearly reproduce the "problem", i could give you a test build that increases LAVs processing threads priority, to see if something changes.
I think my system is too fast to notice anything =p

[Niyawa]

If you can clearly reproduce the "problem", i could give you a test build that increases LAVs processing threads priority, to see if something changes.
Hm... let's see. There's not really much to say. What I can say for sure is that whenever there's another process that requires the CPU to work to some extent (like rendering a page on Chrome) with a high bitrate video, LAV will stutter. But it can be anything, as long it takes a considerable amount of power from the CPU. So for example, if you have a hardware with a considerable powerful CPU, then it will probably never happen.

I can easily reproduce it though. As long I turn the priority to normal again and play a video with high bitrate, it happens. Just for reference, I have a Core 2 Duo @ 2.20 Ghz.

[nevcairiel]

Try with this version then:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.54.1-105-ge83e19d-threadpriority.zip

I changed it to adjust all threads to a higher priority then before.
Such things may be more obvious on systems with a low number of cores/threads, like your C2D with only 2 cores, unlike my i7 with 4+4 cores.

Its still possible that Haali actually increases the process priority instead of just the thread priority, but i don't think thats something that a DirectShow filter should be controlling.

[Niyawa]

I changed it to adjust all threads to a higher priority then before.
Such things may be more obvious on systems with a low number of cores/threads, like your C2D with only 2 cores, unlike my i7 with 4+4 cores.
No wonder you didn't even feel the wind.

Its still possible that Haali actually increases the process priority instead of just the thread priority, but i don't think thats something that a DirectShow filter should be controlling.
It's probably doing that then. I tried with that build, but it only slightly resolves the problem. It really works like Haali when I go in MPC-HC options and enable the process priority above normal.

Well, at least I already know the source of the issue, so it's not all bad. I have one more question though, do you plan to implement support for ordered chapters/editions in mastroska any soon? I know it's already tagged as accepted in the list of issues in Google Project, but this is basically the only thing holding a lot of people to dump Haali once and for all.

[nevcairiel]

Haali actually has an option called "Decoder priority boost", is that turned on for you?

I'll work on ordered chapters "soon", but that can still be a couple of month, depending on how my real job starts developing.

[Niyawa]

Haali actually has an option called "Decoder priority boost", is that turned on for you?
Nope, it's off.

I'll work on ordered chapters "soon", but that can still be a couple of month, depending on how my real job starts developing.
I see. It's nice to have some input in the status from time to time, thanks again.

[nevcairiel]

I need to establish priorities for the upcoming tasks for LAV again, all i wanted to do on high-priority is about done, so whats next up after 0.55 is still in the air. We'll see.

[Dodgexander]

The values in the "Input" section come from the MPEG Demuxer, and are not defined by LAV. As long as the values in the bottom part ("AAC Decoder Specific") appear correct, everything is fine (2 channel, 48000Hz).
You can check the values on the "Output" tab, it will give you the real info on what LAV is decoding and sending onwards.

Good to know nev thanks. The problem is that screenshot was taken using a 6ch sample playing live. I am unsure why lav thinks its 2ch when its 6ch. If I playback the sample in npc it correctly displays 6channel.

And my other problem : Whilst I can see NPVR is using lavaudio and video, the decoder properties do not show active when I open them during playback for instance for lavaudio, i can't see the pin info or channels used in the decoders configuration and in lav video when using the decoder it states "innactive". Although blatantly they are both being used!

Edit* I just checked the output tab in the graph and it shows output as the 5.1 channels. How do I know lav isnt just mixing to 5.1 if i cannot access the properties whilst playing?

[clsid]

Looking at the remaining open issues, my personal most wanted list would be:

#190: Fallback to decoding if Bitstreaming is unsupported
#XXX: Volume normalization option. Of course disabled by default. It could perform some kind of smart check to use it only for video. For example check for presence of a video mediatype in the graph. Then audio file playback will be untouched. Volume normalization is pretty useful in quiet environments (bedroom TV) or when using weak hardware (cheap headphones, portable device).
#116: "Status" tab for LAV Video Decoder
#1: Tray Icon to manage chapters and streams
#32: Automatic loading of post-processing filters into the filter graph. This could initially be limited to the combo: VistaOrAbove + wmplayer.exe -> Let splitter load DirectVobSub.
#21: Support for Matroska Ordered Chapters / Editions

Having the last three would make Haali Splitter obsolete.

[clsid]

@Dodgexander
You need to access the filter settings from within your player or through the tray icons of LAV Filters. If you access settings from the Start menu shortcuts, then you won't get the active instances.

[Dodgexander]

@Dodgexander
You need to access the filter settings from within your player or through the tray icons of LAV Filters. If you access settings from the Start menu shortcuts, then you won't get the active instances.

That does not work, they still are innactive from within NPVR.

There are no system tray icons. How can i enable them?

[nevcairiel]

Many applications can't actually show the active filters property page, but create a new instance of the filter to show it.

The tray icon is only available in the Git builds, and will be in the next release.

[nevcairiel]

#XXX: Volume normalization option. Of course disabled by default. It could perform some kind of smart check to use it only for video. For example check for presence of a video mediatype in the graph. Then audio file playback will be untouched. Volume normalization is pretty useful in quiet environments (bedroom TV) or when using weak hardware (cheap headphones, portable device).

I believe i already mentioned before that i will not offer such functionality.


#32: Automatic loading of post-processing filters into the filter graph. This could initially be limited to the combo: VistaOrAbove + wmplayer.exe -> Let splitter load DirectVobSub.

Is this really needed?
With some configuration, i can easily make DirectVobSub load in wmplayer.

[DragonQ]

Many applications can't actually show the active filters property page, but create a new instance of the filter to show it.

The tray icon is only available in the Git builds, and will be in the next release.
Will the system tray icons always appear when LAV is used? What I'm getting at is: will we be able to actually see a proper status page when LAV is being used in MediaPortal using the system tray icons (right now, as you say, it just creates a new instance of the config window)?

[Dodgexander]

Many applications can't actually show the active filters property page, but create a new instance of the filter to show it.

The tray icon is only available in the Git builds, and will be in the next release.

Okay thanks Nev. I will wait eagerly for your next release :)
until then I try and tell myself I am receiving signal correctly xD

[nevcairiel]

Will the system tray icons always appear when LAV is used? What I'm getting at is: will we be able to actually see a proper status page when LAV is being used in MediaPortal using the system tray icons (right now, as you say, it just creates a new instance of the config window)?

The icons are disabled by default, but when you enable them, they'll always show up when LAV is loaded, and clicking them opens the property sheet of the active filter, so yes, you get the real thing.

[clsid]

Is this really needed?
With some configuration, i can easily make DirectVobSub load in wmplayer.Afaik, it is certainly needed for Vista. On Win7/8 there are some other tricks to make it work. For example setting the preferred decoder to "Use merit" with Win7DSFilterTweaker. Unregistering "RDP Redirection Filter" may also work, as that was the cause of it not loading in MPC-HC.

[sardonis]

Hello all,

I have been trying to get lav filters to work properly but I have 1 major problem. When playing mp4 files muxed with mp4box I always have around 140ms audio delay. I always have to shift 140ms positive (+) in MPC-HC to get synced audio.

This doesn't happen to any other format (mkv, avi with mp2, mp3 or AC3 audio). The only format that causes a problem for me is mp4 files with AAC audio.


They play fine in VLC but I'm not planning to use this as my default player duh :)

As you can see I even have tried good old AC3Filter but no avail. Mp4 files keep playing with around 140ms delay..

I have set all my settings like this:

EDIT: I've noticed that I didn't have the latest lav build so I've updated to 0.54.1 but no change in my problem.



Btw, the mp4 files are muxed with the delay originated in my dvb-c recording ts files so I mux mp4 files with following parameter:

-add "audio.m4a:delay=%delay%"

Would this be a possible cause of my problem? I'm not sure whether MPC-HC does recognize the delay field as well as VLC. I'm not even sure if the mp4 splitter is responsible for this or not...?

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/79531/width/400/flags/LL

http://i46.tinypic.com/nvrw92.png

http://i50.tinypic.com/117a33o.png

http://i49.tinypic.com/30vhcbc.png

[DragonQ]

Have you tried MP4 samples from the internet? If they don't have the problem then it's likely just a muxing issue. Right now I need to add a ~100 ms delay to the audio when muxing my .TS TV recordings to MKV. Not sure why...

[nevcairiel]

#190: Fallback to decoding if Bitstreaming is unsupported


I actually tried doing this, but something odd started to happen.

If i let LAV only output the Bitstreaming media type, it'll connect to my SPDIF renderer just fine and bitstream AC3 and DTS.
But as soon as i also offer a PCM type as a secondary media type, the DirectSound renderer selects this one and triggers the decoding fallback. Really somewhat annoying, actually.

My guess is that it just prefers the 6 channel float media type over the "2 channel" bitstream type (DTS/AC3 always look like 2 channel to the renderer when bitstreaming). Maybe i can trick it by giving it a "wrong" type and see if it still prefers it, but even if it works, this "trick" would mean that if you do this in WMP for example, WMP locks in on 2 channels, and everything would have to be downmixed (WMP cannot change channel count on the fly) - but then, its their damn fault for misconfiguring things, right?

Can't people just know wtf they are doing when configuring things? :p

I did implement fallback to DTS core if DTS-HD fails, though.

Edit:
I tried various other things, but the renderer directly lies to me and claims it accepts a bitstreaming type, and then when i try to send an audio packet, it fails. Oh well, won't be changed then.

[clsid]

Fallback works here in WMP12 with AC3Filter.
In MPC-HC it also works if I disable the internal stream switcher.

[nevcairiel]

In MPC-HC it also works if I disable the internal stream switcher.

Maybe that thing is causing the problem, however if its not reliable in most conditions, i rather have it refuse the decoder completely (and possibly using another one) instead of giving you silence.
I'll look at it again at a later time, maybe a solution will reveal itself that works with all combinations. It had its chance, and it failed, so now it moves to the end of the list. :p

[clsid]

The stream switcher problem might be fixable by the MPC-HC devs.
Problem with fallback to another decoder is that it in most cases will be MS decoder, which gives silence as well :( (at least in MPC, it does work in WMP)
Oh well, knowing what doesn't work is a step forward as well.

[jmone]

I need to establish priorities for the upcoming tasks for LAV again, all i wanted to do on high-priority is about done, so whats next up after 0.55 is still in the air. We'll see.

BD Menu Support :)

[madshi]

BD Menu Support :)
No, let him implement World Peace first! :)

[jmone]

World Peace is overrated.... BD Menus are a much higher priority (though may be slightly more complicated!)

[madshi]

You're probably right on all accounts!

[6233638]

People want to use menus!?

One of the biggest advantages of using a HTPC for Blu-ray is that I can just start index.bdmv (which I have pinned to MPC-HC on the taskbar) and the film starts immediately. No trailers/ads/anti-piracy warnings (ironic considering you only see them on legitimately purchased Blu-rays) and no waiting for menu animations to load up etc.

I wish there were an easy way to skip menus like that for DVD, but I haven't found anything yet. The closest I've found is to set AnyDVD to "Remove annoying clips from menus" and "Remove annoying titles shorter than 10 minutes" which has a lot of films either start playing immediately, or at least takes you directly to the menu without all the ads. Some discs do crash like this however, and I need to disable the "Remove annoying titles" option.

[nussman]

Maybe that thing is causing the problem, however if its not reliable in most conditions, i rather have it refuse the decoder completely (and possibly using another one) instead of giving you silence.
I'll look at it again at a later time, maybe a solution will reveal itself that works with all combinations. It had its chance, and it failed, so now it moves to the end of the list. :p
We discuss the same problem here (in german) with dvbviewer sourcefilter: http://www.dvbviewer.tv/forum/topic/51170-hdmi-av-receiver-dvb-viewer-problem/page__st__40

With AC3-Filter there is a fallback to decoding when bitstream is not supported by the renderer and that helps a lot.

[oddball]

I have a big problem. I want LAV audio to send 7 and 8 channel as 6 channel (5.1) mapping. I know I can do this in the channel mapping tab. But if I enable it then it sends EVERYTHING (including stereo PCM) as 5.1! I just want it to send 7 or 8 channel stuff like DTS-ES as 5.1 PCM so I can use ReClock with WASAPI. My hardware does not support 7 and 8 channel WASAPI it would seem (I just get a 48000 IEEE float 7 channel error).

Is there a way to force LAV audio to always send 7 and 8 channel sources as 6 channel when detected?

[sneaker_ger]

You can set "Don't mix stereo sources", but that's about it.

[oddball]

You can set "Don't mix stereo sources", but that's about it.

Yeah I missed that option which seems to have done the trick. Thx.

[pop]

I can't' play wav WavPack audio file with mpc-hc + LAV audio filter 0.54.1
if .wv file in matroska container plays fine.
win 7, same on win 8.

[nevcairiel]

I can't' play wav WavPack audio file with mpc-hc + LAV audio filter 0.54.1
if .wv file in matroska container plays fine.
win 7, same on win 8.

Works for me.

[andyvt]

People want to use menus!?


I think people want the option to use menus. There are cases where they're useful.

[SamuriHL]

Even simple menus would be useful cause then we could take advantage of SlySoft's speed menu.

[nevcairiel]

Even simple menus would be useful cause then we could take advantage of SlySoft's speed menu.

Those things are hardly useful.

[SamuriHL]

Those things are hardly useful.

I'd argue it's better than no menu. We're a *LONG* way away from having Java menu support. Even SlySoft has been struggling with it. The solution isn't to have no menu support just because speed menus aren't as useful as the original, unsupported, java menus...In any case, this all comes down to where libbluray is on menu support, yes? So it's an irrelevant discussion for this thread since I don't believe you're going to be working on them?

[nevcairiel]

I'd argue it's better than no menu.

Hardly. A player could easily offer a track list like those "Speed" menus without all the effort required for HDMV menu support.

[SamuriHL]

Hardly. A player could easily offer a track list like those "Speed" menus without all the effort required for HDMV menu support.

And some do. And it works well enough. Especially if they use the disc.inf when it's available on titles with that stupid screen pass protection. What I'm hoping for is that SlySoft improves it to show which title goes with what episode on series discs. Hasn't happened yet, but, it could eventually.

[jmone]

Do all discs have HDMV menus (eg even the ones with Java menus)?

[nevcairiel]

No. Although they can have a mix of both, use HDMV for some parts, and switch to BD-J for others.

[jos99]

Getting a lot of jitter & framedrop using LAV for VC-1 blu ray 24p compared to Cyberlink VC-1 decoder, is this a known issue (NVidia 9800GT, W7 32bit)?

[jmone]

No. Although they can have a mix of both, use HDMV for some parts, and switch to BD-J for others.

Sorry to drift OT but
1) how do Java only discs play in old pre-java enabled hardware then?
2) any BD Menu project would need to support both HDMV and Java then? or would it be the case of first HDMV and this would cover some/most/almost all discs?

[SamuriHL]

Sorry to drift OT but
1) how do Java only discs play in old pre-java enabled hardware then?
2) any BD Menu project would need to support both HDMV and Java then? or would it be the case of first HDMV and this would cover some/most/almost all discs?

1) They often don't.
2) AFAIK, libbluray was focusing on HDMV menus first with plans to tackle BD-J later but that may have changed. I haven't looked in a while.

[Redemption80]

The lack of menu's is a bonus when all you want to do is watch the movie, when it comes to extra's it is handy to know what your playing.

Personally i don't think that is the responsibility of Nev/Lav, but it is something i would appreciate as playing your own legal collection of movies is the most hair pulling and expensive side of owning an HTPC.

[turbojet]

Thanks for build 105, fixed the crop problem with cuvid.

[wanezhiling]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vl06bq

Broken image (http://i.minus.com/iNt5cv9NUZ1Tm.jpg) with three HWA decoders on Nvidia cards, sw mode is fine.:)

[mzso]

People want to use menus!?

One of the biggest advantages of using a HTPC for Blu-ray is that I can just start index.bdmv (which I have pinned to MPC-HC on the taskbar) and the film starts immediately. No trailers/ads/anti-piracy warnings (ironic considering you only see them on legitimately purchased Blu-rays) and no waiting for menu animations to load up etc.

I wish there were an easy way to skip menus like that for DVD, but I haven't found anything yet. The closest I've found is to set AnyDVD to "Remove annoying clips from menus" and "Remove annoying titles shorter than 10 minutes" which has a lot of films either start playing immediately, or at least takes you directly to the menu without all the ads. Some discs do crash like this however, and I need to disable the "Remove annoying titles" option.

Well, you can't properly watch extras without them.

[mzso]

1) They often don't.
2) AFAIK, libbluray was focusing on HDMV menus first with plans to tackle BD-J later but that may have changed. I haven't looked in a while.

Ok, now I have no idea what's a HDMV menu. I thought it was a plain generated list (based on the mpls files I assume) like the slysoft speed menu.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, now I have no idea what's a HDMV menu. I thought it was a plain generated list (based on the mpls files I assume) like the slysoft speed menu.

Speed menu is HDMV, but, it's not just a simple list. It's just another standard....consider it a more advanced type of DVD menu. BD-J, otoh, allows for very complex menus with copy protection added for good measure. Nice of them yea? LOL :) It's not just a generated list, though....that's how SlySoft uses it but there are plenty of discs out there with simplified HDMV menus.

[annovif]

Hello, Nevcairiel , i have got an answer for you :
You write that your decoder is now fastest than coreavc, but i want to know about the quality. In coreavc decoder i can set these two parameters , what about these settings in your lav?

DEBLOCKING
This controls how the deblocking step of H.264 specification is executed by the CoreAVC decoder. Deblocking is a complex process that consumes significant processing resources. If your machine is not fast enough, you might want to turn off deblocking for some frames, but it will degrade visual quality. This setting has no effect when hardware acceleration is in use (except for Intel GPUs using DXVA).

Standard deblocking - do deblocking exactly as specified by H.264.
Skip when safe - skip deblocking step when decoding B-frames.
Skip always - does not perform any deblocking.

USE DITHERING
This controls dithering of the output picture when the output format has less precision than the native decoded format.

Off - does not apply dithering to the output.
On - use dithering to mask banding and increase output quality.

Thank you , Fabio

[sneaker_ger]

LAV Video never skips deblocking, so the pure decoding is 100% identical to CoreAVC's "Standard deblocking". Dithering is only used when converting between formats, e.g. 10 bit H.264 to 8 bit for the renderer. It is neither used nor necessary in 99% of all cases. Just leave it at "Random Dithering" for viewing content. "Ordered Dithering" is really only useful when re-encoding stuff.

[DragonQ]

IIRC, Nev's view on this was that deblocking isn't actually optional in AVC (despite what other decoders support) and quality-compromising options aren't a good idea anyway when all half-modern hardware can handle AVC fine, especially when using DXVA2.

[clsid]

It probably would be possible to provide access to Blu-ray extras once the trayicon functionality is expanded. The splitter already parses the title list to find the longest title. So it could display full title list in the trayicon. List longest at top and rest in order. Start playback with longest as it does now and after that continue with other titles in order. User can jump to a title by clicking on it.
perhaps things are more complex than I have assumed. Nevcairiel should be able to comment on that.

[nevcairiel]

Ok, now I have no idea what's a HDMV menu.

HDMV menus are basically the "HD DVD Menus". You get bitmap overlays over a video or still image, navigation capabilities, some image animations and limited interactivity.

Any more interactive content requires BD-J then.

You write that your decoder is now fastest than coreavc, but i want to know about the quality. In coreavc decoder i can set these two parameters , what about these settings in your lav?

LAVs primary goal is uncompromised quality. It'll give you the best quality ("best" being "as true to the source as possible"). Deblocking is always on, because the H.264/AVC spec mandates it, and dithering is always used when appropriate (when converting 10-bit to 8-bit, for example). DragonQ is right, LAV will not offer options to skip deblocking, because it hurts image quality.

So, don't worry about it. LAV does not cut corners to be fast.
It probably would be possible to provide access to Blu-ray extras once the trayicon functionality is expanded. The splitter already parses the title list to find the longest title. So it could display full title list in the trayicon.

LAV Splitter will not offer Blu-ray title switching. There is too many headaches involved with this. A player could easily choose to do this.

Also, the Tray Icon will only expose functionality already present, i do not have *any* plans to add any complex functionality just for the tray icon.

[clsid]

Could you elaborate on those technical difficulties? It is interesting to know.

Assuming the difficulty lies in switching from one title to another in a single graph instance, would something like this be (easily) possible:
* LAV Splitter exports title list (through some custom interface). By default it just opens longest title.
* Player (lets assume MPC-HC) uses this list to display title selection.
* If user switches to different title, the player creates new graph instance, calls a special function in LAV Splitter to pass title index as parameter. If index is valid, then LAV Splitter picks that title. Otherwise it picks longest.

[SamuriHL]

That's already happening with MC18. It's the player's responsibility to pick the proper title to play, not the splitter. The splitter only enumerates them for the player. MC18 also added functionality to look for a disc.inf file on the disc so that it can find valid playlists on screen pass discs. Those have dozens of fake playlists that don't play correctly, so, "picking the longest title" fails miserably in that case. In any case, the splitter enumerates the playlists, and the player determines which one to play. That's how it should be.

[nevcairiel]

MPC-HC also has title switching functionality on its own already.

[STaRGaZeR]

I need to establish priorities for the upcoming tasks for LAV again, all i wanted to do on high-priority is about done, so whats next up after 0.55 is still in the air. We'll see.

Any chance of advanced matrix mixing ala ffdshow? LAV now covers most use cases with the basic options, but mixing all sources as 4.0 or 4.1 output with different coefficients for each channel for example can't be done.

[nautilus7]

I would ask for upmixing capabilities, as well. Are you going to offer any options for that? I am mostly interested in a way to playback my 2.0 stereo music into my 7.1 surround system without having to use ffdshow to create a custom matrix.

[ddjmagic]

Those things are hardly useful.

Speedmenus aren't just a simple list of playlists/titles, it lists the main feature correctly everytime for easy selection, even when MPC-HC/JRiver/XBMC all fail to figure out the main movie correctly.

If that's not useful then what is?

JRiver the closest but only because it can use the same information that the Speedmenus use (using the disc.inf)
But since the disc.inf is currently only listing the playlist for Screenpass titles, JRiver stills fails on quite a few titles.

I respect everything you do with LAV Filters but I think your comment is completely wrong.

If you can figure out the main movie everytime then please make a player/program of your own with this feature, or show the developers of JRiver/XBMC/MPC how to add it.

I'm sure you will ignore this post anyway.

Edit - XBMC 12 actually get a few playlist selections right that JRiver gets wrong, not the Screenpass titles though, so I would call it a tie between those 2 players, still neither are perfect like the Speedmenus selection.

[nevcairiel]

If they have this magic, they should expose it in the disc.inf, and not require people to use those terribly ugly menus. Any menu is rather annoying if all it does is offer you a button to start playing the main movie anyway.

So still, the menus are rather useless, people that would use those would probably very much prefer direct playback of the movie over this.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but i would never use them. The number of times the wrong playlist is even selected is extremely low for me, in fact, i can't remember when it happened last.

[dansrfe]

Utilizing DXVA2 Native doesn't take away GPU processing power from scaling (with power hungry algorithms like Jinc 3) and rendering does it?

Also, does anyone know how I can tell whether a certain GTX card supports 8 channel PCM output? I bought a GT card about 5 years ago and I assumed that all NVidia cards >= GT supported 8 channel PCM over HDMI but I guess that wasn't the case because I've been stuck bitstreaming DTS-HD core for a while now. I'd much rather get rid of the bitstream thing and send properly decoded DTS-HD -> PCM over HDMI through Reclock via LAV Filters utilizing dtsdecoderdll.dll.

[ddjmagic]

If they have this magic, they should expose it in the disc.inf, and not require people to use those terribly ugly menus. Any menu is rather annoying if all it does is offer you a button to start playing the main movie anyway.

So still, the menus are rather useless, people that would use those would probably very much prefer direct playback of the movie over this.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but i would never use them.

Its not a question of if they have it they do have it.
Slysoft have confirmed that they may add the magic playlist information to all discs.inf files in the future.

Until then unfortunately you are stuck with those hardly useful/rather useless Speedmenus if you want perfect main movie playback.

Remember, some people make backups to discs for standalone players that can only do main movie playback with something like Speedmenus.

But you have to be right all the time, so I will agree these Speedmenus are useless and not useful.

[nevcairiel]

I rather switch the title manually once in a blue moon then click myself through a menu on *every* disc.
It doesn't matter anyway, since there is no menu playback in any of those players you listed. :p (possibly except XBMC, i think they are working on some things for the next version)

[SamuriHL]

Yes, SlySoft needs to expose the valid movie titles on every disc. Hopefully they add it soon.

[ddjmagic]

I rather switch the title manually once in a blue moon then click myself through a menu on *every* disc.
It doesn't matter anyway, since there is no menu playback in any of those players you listed. :p (possibly except XBMC, i think they are working on some things for the next version)

XBMC 12 works fine with Speedmenus, playlist selection has also been improved, its actually quite good, better than JRiver/MPC in some cases.

[nevcairiel]

And 12 is the next version, isn't that what i said? :D

PS:
I tried to find their "playlist selection" code, but there is none. They seem to just iterate through libblurays titles and pick the longest, which is also what LAV does (libbluray has some smarts to filter titles with repeats and whatnot)
Note that MPC-HC chooses the playlist if you play a Blu-ray with MPC-HC, and not LAV - well it used to anyway, i fixed that like 3 days ago in MPC-HC.

But then, i don't remember which of my discs even misdetected. "Screenpass" or what its called isn't used on EU discs apparently (at least i havent found one, US editions of one movie can have it, and EU ones of the same movie don't).

[SamuriHL]

Screen pass is annoying as all hell on discs that have it.

[ddjmagic]

And 12 is the next version, isn't that what i said? :D

PS:
I tried to find their "playlist selection" code, but there is none. They seem to just iterate through libblurays titles and pick the longest, which is also what LAV does (libbluray has some smarts to filter titles with repeats and whatnot)
Note that MPC-HC chooses the playlist if you play a Blu-ray with MPC-HC, and not LAV - well it used to anyway, i fixed that like 3 days ago in MPC-HC.

But then, i don't remember which of my discs even misdetected. "Screenpass" or what its called isn't used on EU discs apparently (at least i havent found one, US editions of one movie can have it, and EU ones of the same movie don't).

I'm not sure how XBMC 12 playlist selection works, but it definitely gets some right that JRiver/LAV/MPC doesn't.
I check later and report back.

This (http://blog.dvdfab.com/stealthyclone-anti-protection.html) is a decent list of Screenpass titles - There are a few EU disc on there, mainly US though :)

[DragonQ]

Utilizing DXVA2 Native doesn't take away GPU processing power from scaling (with power hungry algorithms like Jinc 3) and rendering does it?
In my experience, no. On my laptop, I tried using CUVID for decoding and the Intel IGP for MadVR (and the other way around) and there was no improvement over just using one or the other for both. I think different parts of the GPU are used.

[ddjmagic]

I'm not sure how XBMC 12 playlist selection works, but it definitely gets some right that JRiver/LAV/MPC doesn't.
I check later and report back.


Just a bit of data taken from some discs I have that playlist selection can be a problem.

I picked 10 that first came to mind, their are others but these are the ones I have tested today.

Results are from the latest versions of AnyDVD HD, JRiver and XBMC Frodo.

Black Hawk Down

JRiver - 00042.mpls {02:31:20} Special Features - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00009.mpls {02:24:20} Main Movie - Correct
SpeedMenu - 00035.mpls {02:24:20} Main Movie - Correct

Brave

JRiver - 00801.mpls {01:34:12} Spanish Main Movie - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00800.mpls {01:33:37} Main Movie - Correct
SpeedMenu - 00800.mpls {01:33:37} Main Movie - Correct

Dark Knight Rises

JRiver - 00091.mpls {02:57:30} In Movie Special Feature - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00091.mpls {02:57:30} In Movie Special Feature - Incorrect
SpeedMenu - 00100.mpls {02:44:33} Main Movie - Correct

Hellboy

JRiver - 00066.mpls {02:23:08} Special Feature - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00030.mpls {02:12:28} Main Movie - Correct
SpeedMenu - 00030.mpls {02:12:28} Main Movie - Correct

Inception

JRiver - 00101.mpls {03:10:20} In Movie Special Feature - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00100.mpls {02:28:07} Main Movie - Correct
SpeedMenu - 00100.mpls {02:28:07} Main Movie - Correct

Iron Man 2

JRiver - 00846.mpls {02:07:27} In Movie Special Feature - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00846.mpls {02:07:27} In Movie Special Feature - Incorrect
SpeedMenu - 00847.mpls {02:04:39} Main Movie -Correct


Wall-E

JRiver - 00082.mpls {01:38:41} Spanish Main Movie - Incorrect
XBMC 12 - 00081.mpls {01:38:11} Main Movie - Correct
SpeedMenu - 00081.mpls {01:38:11} Main Movie - Correct

The following are Screenpass titles I didn't test today but I know the results

Expendables 2 (Screenpass JRiver using Disc.inf)

JRiver - Main Movie - Correct
XBMC 12 - No clue :) - Incorrect
JRiver - Main Movie - Correct

Hunger Games (Screenpass JRiver using Disc.inf)

JRiver - Main Movie - Correct
XBMC 12 - No clue :) - Incorrect
JRiver - Main Movie - Correct

Warrior (Screenpass JRiver using Disc.inf)

JRiver - Main Movie - Correct
XBMC 12 - No clue :) - Incorrect
JRiver - Main Movie - Correct


As you can see XBMC and JRiver definitely are sometimes different and not always using the longest.

Totals

JRiver - 3/10 Thanks to 'disc.inf'
XBMC Frodo - 5/10 - Has no idea on Screenpass titles
Speedmenu - 10/10 - Magic ;)

I'm guessing MPC-HC would of been 0/10 since it would of had the same results as JRiver but would not of been able to use the 'disc.inf'

Obviously there are hundreds of discs that they all get correct, I just picked these because I remember them having problems.

EDIT - These tests were wrong, I was testing XBMC incorrectly. XBMC 12 actually gets 0/10 and the new JRiver 18.0.110 has been retested to get 6/7 (3 untested but may work)

[nevcairiel]

JRiver uses its own code to figure it out. Since none of these tests include LAV, not relevant at all. :p
LAV Splitter itself does not and will not support any kind of BD menus, speed menus or otherwise, so its really rather off-topic here. From what i can see in XBMCs code, LAV and XBMC use the same mechanism to figure out which title to use.

[SamuriHL]

jriver uses its own code to figure it out. Since none of these tests include lav, not relevant at all. :p

lmao! :)

[ddjmagic]

JRiver uses its own code to figure it out. Since none of these tests include LAV, not relevant at all. :p

So the fact that the useless Speedmenus get it right 100% is not relevant? :confused:

What player can I setup with LAV to test? Is it useful enough to get 10/10?
I didn't mention LAV in the tests, if I did please point it out.

Edit - Providing the player for LAV is free, don't want to buy another player lol

[nevcairiel]

So the fact that the useless Speedmenus get it right 100% is not relevant? :confused:

Speedmenus are not relevant to LAV Splitter, because it does not support BD menus, and never will.

This is not a generic BD discussion thread, please stick to LAV relevant topics.

[ddjmagic]

Speedmenus are not relevant to LAV Splitter, because it does not support BD menus, and never will.

You said Speedmenus are useless, so I'm showing real data where they are proving very useful, or will you dismiss that too :rolleyes:

If you didn't want Speedmenus talked in your thread, don't comment on them in your thread in a negative and dismissive way, when obviously you had never even used them properly or understand what they even did, it is very frustrating.

It shows your lack of respect for anybody other than you that might have achieved something that you can not.

Speedmenus are making huge steps in helping BD playback, its perfect when used with the new XBMC.

I won't mention it again, but I hope you understood my frustration with your comments, but to be honest I'm sure you don't.

Back to LAV - Please link to a player that can use LAV for playlist selection so I can test, preferably free. Thanks.

[SamuriHL]

You should respect Nev's work even if you don't appreciate the manner in which he provides answers. It's his product, his thread.

Enough about that. The real issue here is what's involved in what SlySoft has done to make the Speed Menus work. The underlying code and how long it took them to develop it. Ever wonder why Slyce isn't released yet? Think it might have to do with the code they've had to develop for menus that NO ONE else has been able to do? Even libbluray hasn't been able to get menu support done. It's not something you can just whip up in 10 minutes. If Nev focused on it, which he said he won't, it'd take away from all the other things he's working on. And there are more important issues to work on. I believe that the players need to implement this functionality. J River, for example, appears to have a lot of work to do.

[madshi]

@ddjmagic, if nevcairiel's comment about Speedmenus was incorrect then I'm sure it was posted without any intended or implied disrespect to other developers. Everybody makes a mistake once in a while. I didn't know myself that Speedmenus seemingly work that well. What I'm seeing right now, though, is intended disrespect from your side. So could you please either stop posting, or alternatively change your attitude? Thanks.

[nevcairiel]

You claim they are perfect, i claim they are useless. Your claim any better then mine? Not in the slightest.
If you like getting a menu on every single disc, if you like being limited to a player that can show menus (which is very few so far), then it can maybe do things for you. I like neither of these, so i consider them plain and simple useless. I rather manually switch a title once every hundred discs then to deal with the menu on every disc - and i like the players i use. :)

If you get this execited everytime someone likes using different things... that can't be healthy. :p

Anyway, end of discussion. Everyone likes different things.

PS:
Even if my comments were disrespectful towards the super duper "Speedmenus" (a feature by some company, which i doubt you are tied to), yours are borderline offensive towards me, don't expect answers anymore.
Why you personally get offended if someone doesn't like Speedmenus is truely beyond me.

[ddjmagic]

You should respect Nev's work even if you don't appreciate the manner in which he provides answers. It's his product, his thread.

Enough about that. The real issue here is what's involved in what SlySoft has done to make the Speed Menus work. The underlying code and how long it took them to develop it. Ever wonder why Slyce isn't released yet? Think it might have to do with the code they've had to develop for menus that NO ONE else has been able to do? Even libbluray hasn't been able to get menu support done. It's not something you can just whip up in 10 minutes. If Nev focused on it, which he said he won't, it'd take away from all the other things he's working on. And there are more important issues to work on. I believe that the players need to implement this functionality. J River, for example, appears to have a lot of work to do.

I just want to say I do respect his work, if it came across as I didn't I apologise to Nev for that.

I even spent days trying to get an XBMC external player batch file to read the 'disc.inf' just so I could still use MPC/LAV Filters instead of the internal XBMC player :D

Regarding BD menus, it not something I would want anyway (TMT5/PowerDVD already work quite well), I would much prefer perfect main movie selection, which I know is possible if a player eventually can implement it XBMC seems to be closest (Without using 'disc.inf') from what I am able to test at the moment (5/7 for non Screenpass titles is pretty good)

[ddjmagic]

PS:
Even if my comments were disrespectful towards the super duper "Speedmenus" (a feature by some company, which i doubt you are tied to), yours are borderline offensive towards me, don't expect answers anymore.
Why you personally get offended if someone doesn't like Speedmenus is truely beyond me.

I was frustrated, I apologise for that and respect your decision to not answer, I will still continue to download and use the latest LAV Filters either way.

[ddjmagic]

Does anyone know if the latest MPC-HC Nightly build would have the fix included that allows a third party splitter (LAV) to control the playlist selection?

[paradoxical]

Why don't you ask in the MPC-HC thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=166689&page=8)?

[ddjmagic]

Why don't you ask in the MPC-HC thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=166689&page=8)?

Thanks, I will do. I have just tried it actually and I don't think it does, it seems to still use its own selection :devil::).

[kangreon]

Hello. Please review the closed issue (296 (https://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=296#c4)). I described the problem in detail.

[jmone]

FYI - I've with JRiver the disucssion on Title selection and asked if they would do a review of the logic used. Hope that moves the discusion to the correct forum.

[dansrfe]

Is it normal for Blurays to have the center channel quieter than the rest of the channels? The difference is noticeable enough to where I had to increase the volume on my receiver in order to hear the vocals properly. But the issue then became the surround, left, and right speakers gobbling up the center's sound with the background music, etc.

Maybe I need to balance the klipsch speakers in the receiver based on where they are located or calibration?

PS: I hear a slight difference between the center channel and the mixed in surround/left/right channels in my klipsch earphones but it's hard to tell since it's getting downmixed by lav anyways.

[CiNcH]

Is the code for main movie detection in 'CBDDemuxer::Open'. So from what I can see it just uses the playlist with the longest duration?

[nevcairiel]

libbluray performs filtering on the titles to remove unwanted ones from the list first.

[ddjmagic]

I'm still trying to find a player that can use LAV's playlist selection, I've tried MPC-HC (Nightly), MPC-BE, Zoom Player, Pot Player and KM Player, I've disabled all the internal filters and set LAV for everything on each but they all are still using their own selection.

What are you guys using as a player with LAV, any suggestions appreciated.

[starla]

Is the code for main movie detection in 'CBDDemuxer::Open'. So from what I can see it just uses the playlist with the longest duration?

As a quick note the longest clip might contain some unwanted stuff like director comments in middle of the movie, so there is no safe way to use only the titles for selecting the main movie.

Terminator Salvation is a good example of such disk.


tourettes, MP


update: this post can be ignored since there was already a better post explaining the same fact.

[ddjmagic]

I'm still trying to find a player that can use LAV's playlist selection, I've tried MPC-HC (Nightly), MPC-BE, Zoom Player, Pot Player and KM Player, I've disabled all the internal filters and set LAV for everything on each but they all are still using their own selection.

What are you guys using as a player with LAV, any suggestions appreciated.

Ok, it looks like the latest MPC-HC nightly build would include the fix to let LAV control the playlist selection.

I obviously must have something setup incorrectly :confused: Would I have to do anything in LAV Splitter settings other than checking all the formats under the input format tab?

Also I'm opening the BD folder, should I be picking a BDMV file instead (index.bdmv maybe?)

I didn't think it would be this hard just to get a player to use LAV/libbluray superior playlist selection :D

[nevcairiel]

Opening index.bdmv should work.
You can see if LAV does it or MPC-HC by which file MPC-HC claims is opened. If it sticks to saying its index.bdmv, then all is well, if it suddenly says some .mpls file was opened, then it switched it around for you.

Also, i'm not saying it'll be magically better, i just said i didn't see any magic in XBMC, and LAV does the same as XBMC apparently does. Maybe XBMC somewhere has some hidden magic which i didn't find yet.
LAV also does not use disc.inf, however if AnyDVD starts writing the "confirmed" main movies in there on all discs (and not just screenpass), i might read it, reading inf files is not hard.

[SamuriHL]

Nev, I don't know if you saw the discussion jmone started on the MC forum, but, there are some definite improvements that could be made fairly trivially. One is to look at the number of audio tracks. A multi-audio track titleset should take precedence over a titleset with only 1 audio track. Also, if the titleset contains an HD audio track, it's more likely to be a main titleset. That seems like it'd be fairly trivial logic to add in?

[ddjmagic]

Opening index.bdmv should work.
You can see if LAV does it or MPC-HC by which file MPC-HC claims is opened. If it sticks to saying its index.bdmv, then all is well, if it suddenly says some .mpls file was opened, then it switched it around for you.

Also, i'm not saying it'll be magically better, i just said i didn't see any magic in XBMC, and LAV does the same as XBMC apparently does. Maybe XBMC somewhere has some hidden magic which i didn't find yet.
LAV also does not use disc.inf, however if AnyDVD starts writing the "confirmed" main movies in there on all discs (and not just screenpass), i might read it, reading inf files is not hard.

Thanks for the answer.
MPC-HC is showing index.bdmv as the file playing, so would that mean LAV is choosing?

If so then unfortunately you might be right :( XBMC must be doing something different, because from the tests I posted (#13768) LAV got 0/7 on non Screenpass correct and XBMC got 5/7, this is not a dig at LAV, I just want to help improve this.

May I ask the basics of how Libbluray filters the playlists?

I'm only asking because on almost all the titles I tested, when the incorrect track was chosen, there were no repeats and it did have multiple audio and HD audio, so Libbluray was still letting some incorrect tracks through, so they must pass through its filters.

Could XBMC have changed or added improvements to their Libbluray build at all because that seems to ignore the track that others select and pick a different one ?

Edit -
For example Wall-E, everything except XBMC choose 00082.mpls {01:38:41} this is the main movie, but it isn't the default version (It has Spanish text) the track has chapters, multiple audio, HD Audio - everything, but how would XBMC know that 00081.mpls {01:38:11} is the correct track?
XBMC 11 gets it wrong too, its something in the new version

[bejita7]

This may be stupid question, but, nevcariel, when do you plan to add Ordered Chapters support to LAV Splitter? That's the only reason why I'm still using Haali splitter but Haali often crashes MPC-HC on Win8 so i would prefer LAV Splitter for all files.

[ddjmagic]

discussion jmone started on the MC forum

SamuriHL, any chance of sending me a link to the thread, I wouldn't mind having a read through, thanks.

[paradoxical]

This may be stupid question, but, nevcariel, when do you plan to add Ordered Chapters support to LAV Splitter? That's the only reason why I'm still using Haali splitter but Haali often crashes MPC-HC on Win8 so i would prefer LAV Splitter for all files.

Yes, he has said before he will work on it.


I'll work on ordered chapters "soon", but that can still be a couple of month, depending on how my real job starts developing.

[SamuriHL]

SamuriHL, any chance of sending me a link to the thread, I wouldn't mind having a read through, thanks.

No. It's not a public thread.

[Kurtnoise]

One is to look at the number of audio tracks. A multi-audio track titleset should take precedence over a titleset with only 1 audio track.Also, if the titleset contains an HD audio track, it's more likely to be a main titleset.
What's happen when 2 titles (or more) have all multi-tracks and/or HD streams in this case ?

[SamuriHL]

What's happen when 2 titles (or more) have all multi-tracks and/or HD streams in this case ?

Then you have to pick the longest of the two (or more) by default. I mean, unless you're able to parse the menus, you're never going to get it perfect. The idea here is to improve the guessing.

[ddjmagic]

No. It's not a public thread.

Ok, thanks :).
Just to let you know the improvements you suggested would solve 2 of the 7 that I posted that JRiver got wrong, Black Hawk Down and Hellboy.
The rest all have HD audio and multiple audio tracks.

So improvements can be made, not sure how XBMC has improved it as I can not see any logical way to fix those other 5 :confused:

But surely if XBMC have made improvements it must be something LAV can do too, as their source code is public and Nev has confirmed they seem to use the same logic.

[madshi]

@ddjmagic, would you be willing to zip and upload the key menu files (no actual m2ts files) of all those problematic Blu-Rays with and without Screenpass, together with a short list of which is the "correct" movie playlist? I guess the PLAYLIST+CLIPINF folders together with those two bdmv files should do the trick. I think that would help development, not only for LAV, but maybe also for other home cinema software.

[ddjmagic]

@ddjmagic, would you be willing to zip and upload the key menu files (no actual m2ts files) of all those problematic Blu-Rays with and without Screenpass, together with a short list of which is the "correct" movie playlist? I guess the PLAYLIST+CLIPINF folders together with those two bdmv files should do the trick. I think that would help development, not only for LAV, but maybe also for other home cinema software.

Yes I can do that, where would be best place to upload the files?

So I would zip

PLAYLIST
CLIPINF
index.bdmv
movieobject.bdmv

Anything else?

I will try a couple now.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, thanks :).
Just to let you know the improvements you suggested would solve 2 of the 7 that I posted that JRiver got wrong, Black Hawk Down and Hellboy.
The rest all have HD audio and multiple audio tracks.

So improvements can be made, not sure how XBMC has improved it as I can not see any logical way to fix those other 5 :confused:

But surely if XBMC have made improvements it must be something LAV can do too, as their source code is public and Nev has confirmed they seem to use the same logic.

MC is going to be updated with new logic that jmone pointed out. You may not see it publicly for a bit, but, it'll be there eventually.

[nevcairiel]

I should setup a sample upload service like VLC has, public upload, but no public download (unless i choose to publish the file link), so it cannot be abused by evil people. :p

[SamuriHL]

That would be nice. :)

[SamuriHL]

Here's the info for Hunger Games Region A. This is a screen pass disc. I added the disc.inf file to the zip from AnyDVD. This has the clipinf and playlist directories and the index.bdmv and movieobject.bdmv files. I hope this helps.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?6ac6f7jrfcc4y5p

[ddjmagic]

Here's a zip from Black Hawk Down, I have added the correct playlists in a txt file.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/whaej6

If this is right I will do the others too, I used sendspace because it was the first one on Google :)
If its not a good place let me know.

[madshi]

I should setup a sample upload service like VLC has, public upload, but no public download (unless i choose to publish the file link), so it cannot be abused by evil people. :p
Well, many developers are interested in samples, so I think a private upload service wouldn't be that great, unless you give full all-time access to all developers who ask for it.

Here's the info for Hunger Games Region A. This is a screen pass disc. I added the disc.inf file to the zip from AnyDVD. This has the clipinf and playlist directories and the index.bdmv and movieobject.bdmv files. I hope this helps.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?6ac6f7jrfcc4y5p
Looks good, but which is the correct playlist to use? If you upload more samples, please add a text file to indicate the correct playlist for each sample. Thanks.

Here's a zip from Black Hawk Down, I have added the correct playlists in a txt file.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/whaej6

If this is right I will do the others too, I used sendspace because it was the first one on Google :)
If its not a good place let me know.
Looks good to me, too, thanks. It would be nice if you could include the "disc.inf", too, just to have something to compare to. I do wonder, though. Your text file says: "00042.mpls is the longest playlist and usually mistaken for the main movie". But 0042.mpls is an SD playlist! eac3to at least never picks an SD playlist as the main movie unless there's no HD content at all on the disc.

If XMBC/jRiver MC/LAV currently do sometimes pick an SD playlist as the main movie, I think that's something that should be very easy to improve.

[6233638]

Inception and the Region B Hunger Games (different playlist structure)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/511xu0
EDIT: Now with disc.inf
EDIT2: The disc.inf files are saying the type is BD-R because I just mounted images rather than getting the discs. (most of my discs are stored away - I use a HTPC to avoid having bookshelves full of discs sitting out) That won't make a difference, will it?

I've definitely got some other discs here that load the wrong playlist when I open index.bdmv, but I can't think which ones they are right now.

[madshi]

@nevcairiel, I hope you're ok with the samples being "announced" in this thread? Personally, I'm interested in the samples, in any case...

@6233638, thanks. And could you please also include the "disc.inf", in case you have it?

[nevcairiel]

Well, many developers are interested in samples, so I think a private upload service wouldn't be that great, unless you give full all-time access to all developers who ask for it.

It would be an option to allow any person that wants read access (within reason) to grant it. Many projects use a upload-only FTP for sharing samples on bug reports because all these one-click hosters are just terrible, but offering a publicly-readable file hosting obviously comes with a whole bunch of problems.
Depending on how big the upload volume would be, might as well take a moderation approach, just hold all files until they are checked to be at least remotely relevant to something, and not just someone trying to host illegal content.

[SamuriHL]

madshi, I added the disc.inf for that very reason. It contains the valid playlist which is 665 on that one.

[madshi]

@SamuriHL, ah, I see. Just thought that disc.inf wasn't always showing the correct playlist, as opposed to SpeedMenus? That's why I thought it might make sense to clearly state which playlist is the correct one.

@nevcairiel, you're right about the danger of hosting illegal content. I think if you only grant all devs (and maybe trusted non-devs) download access on request, that might be a pretty good solution.

[nevcairiel]

@SamuriHL, ah, I see. Just thought that disc.inf wasn't always showing the correct playlist, as opposed to SpeedMenus? That's why I thought it might make sense to clearly state which playlist is the correct one.


disc.inf only shows the playlist on Screenpass titles right now, afaik, while Speedmenu obviously show a playlist on all titles.

[SamuriHL]

There's a misconception about the disc.inf, I think. It ONLY shows the playlists if there's screen pass protection on the disc. If there's no screen pass, then it won't be useful for playlists. If I had done a different disc I'd have specifically stated which playlist was correct. Sorry for the confusion.

[ddjmagic]

Looks good to me, too, thanks. It would be nice if you could include the "disc.inf", too, just to have something to compare to. I do wonder, though. Your text file says: "00042.mpls is the longest playlist and usually mistaken for the main movie". But 0042.mpls is an SD playlist! eac3to at least never picks an SD playlist as the main movie unless there's no HD content at all on the disc.

If XMBC/jRiver MC/LAV currently do sometimes pick an SD playlist as the main movie, I think that's something that should be very easy to improve.

Yes this and Hellboy both have SD content chosen as the main movie by XBMC 11/JRiver/LAV, XBMC 12 picks correctly though.

Those 2 would be easy to solve, but the others are different.

Here are the other discs
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4j9vqp

I haven't added the disc.inf, if you need this I will go back and load the original discs again as some were ripped prior the AnyDVD disc.inf feature.

Edit - I have added a "correct playlist.txt" for each disc showing the correct playlist and also noting the usually selected incorrect playlist.

[madshi]

Ok, if disc.inf is only for screen pass, then I guess it's not as important. Thans, ddjmagic, looks like we have a nice collection of samples now.

[SamuriHL]

This is great! This is one of the biggest areas that we fall down in using non-licensed players. I don't give a flying monkey about menus, either, but, I do want the correct titleset to be chosen. And madshi, I suspect this probably helps a bit with eac3to, huh? ;)

[madshi]

Yes, it might help for eac3to at some point in the future, too. But has anybody actually tested yet how often eac3to fails? But that's a bit OT here, I guess...

[ddjmagic]

This is great! This is one of the biggest areas that we fall down in using non-licensed players. I don't give a flying monkey about menus, either, but, I do want the correct titleset to be chosen.

I agree 100% :) Hopefully steps can be made towards that.

I think for Screenpass titles reading from the 'disc.inf' like JRiver, is going to be the only way it can be achieved (Without an awful lot of work)

[ddjmagic]

Sorry, one last one that I just remembered having problems with - American Pie - Another that plays a long SD special feature track.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/5rci4t
(http://www.sendspace.com/file/5rci4t)

[SamuriHL]

Yes, it might help for eac3to at some point in the future, too. But has anybody actually tested yet how often eac3to fails? But that's a bit OT here, I guess...

More than you'd like. Yes, it's been tested, but, as you said, OT for here. Its logic could be improved, though.

[Sebastiii]

I'm still trying to find a player that can use LAV's playlist selection, I've tried MPC-HC (Nightly), MPC-BE, Zoom Player, Pot Player and KM Player, I've disabled all the internal filters and set LAV for everything on each but they all are still using their own selection.

What are you guys using as a player with LAV, any suggestions appreciated.

Hi,
You could always try MediaPortal (Native BD Player but here it will not use LAV Splitter) or MediaPortal with BDHandler (that use LAV Splitter) :)

And Thanks Nev for your work (i will never stop to say it :P)

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.55

General
- All Filters now have an optional tray icon which can open the property sheet when clicked (disabled by default)

LAV Splitter
- Improved FPS detection for interlaced H.264 streams in Matroska
- Fixed H.264 in Ogg and PMP
- Fixed seeking in RMVB files with AAC audio
- Improved support for AAC in MPEG-TS (especially in ISDB-T)
- Fixed Key-Frame seeking for AVI and added support for MP4

LAV Video
- Improved handling of raw RGB video with LAV Splitter (Video was upside-down in some cases)
- Improved support for the Overlay Mixer renderer
- Fixed decoding of non-mod16 video with CUVID
- Fixed DXVA2 decoding of H.264 MBAFF content with >= 16px cropping
- Support for fade in/out animations in DVD subtitles
- Fixed DVD menu overlays showing too early on some discs
- Fixed forced DVD subtitles being stuck on the screen until the next subtitle line
- Improved playback of MPEG-1 in MKV with Haali Splitter

LAV Audio
- Fixed 6.1 to 7.1 upmixing when the standard channel layout option is turned off
- Dithering when converting audio to 16-bit Integer
- Fallback to DTS "Core" bitstreaming if DTS-HD fails


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55-x64.zip)

Tray Icons
As most that read this probably already know, LAV now has tray icons for all three filters. They are disabled by default, and in this version don't offer much functionality - they show up, and you can click them to open the property sheet of the appropriate filter.
This at least allows you to directly access the configuration/status of the actually active instance of LAV, because many players either don't offer access to the property page at all, or always instanciate a new copy, and don't use the one used for playback.

In the future, more features will be added to the tray icons, most notably: LAV Splitter will allow direct stream switching through the tray icon for players which do not offer this.

And everything else
Since it was quite a while since the last release already, a lot of small fixes and most importantly a lot of ffmpeg changes have accumulated for this release.
Most importantly, the way the H.264 decoder in ffmpeg deals with resolution changes was greatly improved, and i hope it didn't cause any regressions.

As always, please report any issues you find with this version to me, most importantly regressions, but all other sorts of issues as well, of course.
I hope i don't have to do a .1 release within the week to fix any new issues, but with the sheer amount of ffmpeg changes, i'm prepared to do so if required.

Have fun!

[Pomegranate]

Thank you very much for the new version, Mr Nev. :D

Dithering is a reaaaallly nice touch!

[hubblec4]

nice to see the tray-icon-feature.

but i miss the support of ordered chapters. is there a real chance that you start with this feature this year?
Please Please Please :-)

[jmone]

Yes, it might help for eac3to at some point in the future, too. But has anybody actually tested yet how often eac3to fails? But that's a bit OT here, I guess...

FYI - the other bug bear for non-licenced menuless players is the identification of what are the forced sub track when they are not flagged as such. I "think" ripper such as ClownBD use eac3to to do this....

[jmone]

Just a bit of data taken from some discs I have that playlist selection can be a problem.

I picked 10 that first came to mind, their are others but these are the ones I have tested today (note: a public version may take a few days to make it to the MC18 board)

Results are from the latest versions of AnyDVD HD, JRiver and XBMC Frodo.

FYI - Just tested the JRiver 18.0.110 after they made this change.

1. Changed: When deciding the order of "importance" of various Blu-ray playlists of similar (but different) durations for a movie title, MC now picks based on number of audio streams (if they differ) rather than duration.


Here are the results of the discs that I had (non sreen pass) that did not produce the correct playlist before.
- Black Hawk Down - 00035.mpls {02:24:20} Main Movie - Now Correct
- Brave, Dark Knight Rises, Wall-E - I don't have
- Hellboy - 00030.mpls {02:12:28} Main Movie - Now Correct
- Inception - 00101.mpls {03:10:20} In Movie Special Feature - Still Incorrect VS 00100.mpls {02:28:07} Main Movie
- Iron Man 2 - 00847.mpls {02:04:39} Main Movie -Now Correct
- Sherlock Holmes - One that I had that also used to grab the wrong playlist but Now Correct

All in all a big improvement with a simple logic tweak by asking the right devs. I'm not sure if it is worth widening the time range to 45 minutes to capture stuff like Inception as it may also generate false positives.

[ddjmagic]

Thanks jmone, that a great improvement :) I will test the others listed once this version becomes public. Thanks.

[ddjmagic]

Assuming JRiver 18.0.110 also fixes at least 'Dark Knight Rises' then between JRiver/XBMC all 10 of the problem discs I posted would be working :cool:

Come on Nev it time for MPC/LAV to catch up :p ;) :D

Joking aside if MPC/LAV could combine the new logic from JRiver and XBMC, then playlist selection would be perfect :)

[jmone]

Stream selection is (and should be) a players responsibility. MC uses LAV as well but it is MC that picks the stream from those LAV splitter makes available. While it is a great topic....If you want MC, MPC (or any another player) to tweak their logic, support AnyDVD's disc.inf etc etc then I'd suggest it would be best via their forums not this thread as it really is OT for LAV.

[ddjmagic]

Stream selection is (and should be) a players responsibility. MC uses LAV as well but it is MC that picks the stream from those LAV splitter makes available. While it is a great topic....If you want MC, MPC (or any another player) to tweak their logic, support AnyDVD's disc.inf etc etc then I'd suggest it would be best via their forums not this thread as it really is OT for LAV.

Well Nev fixed MPC so it could use LAV Spiltter for selection a few days ago.

Also taken from the first post in the thread

"Support for opening BluRay playlists (.mpls), as well as the index.bdmv file, which will try to detect the main movie playlist!"

I'm talking about improving this main movie playlist detection in LAV, as it is listed as a feature, so I don't see this as off topic.

Nev has also mentioned adding 'disc.inf' support in the future, if the playlist info was available for all discs.

Edit - I think LAV could be the best chance of getting perfect selection into one player by improving this feature, I'm sure Nev would be able to add this if he chooses to in the future.

[jmone]

True - if nevcairel is going to build some logic into LAV Splitter that can match playlists, and find those rouge non flagged forced subs - then yup all part of this thread. I am under the impression (and could be easily be mistaken) that Nevcairiel had indicated otherwise so I'll butt out for now....

[ddjmagic]

True - if nevcairel is going to build some logic into LAV Splitter that can match playlists, and find those rouge non flagged forced subs - then yup all part of this thread. I am under the impression (and could be easily be mistaken) that Nevcairiel had indicated otherwise so I'll butt out for now....

You might be right, I was under the impression that LAV Splitter already had some built in playlist logic and that maybe it could be improved, but I could be mistaken too :)

[nevcairiel]

Joking aside if MPC/LAV could combine the new logic from JRiver and XBMC, then playlist selection would be perfect :)

I still haven't found any indication where this logic would be in XBMC. :p

[CiNcH]

1. Changed: When deciding the order of "importance" of various Blu-ray playlists of similar (but different) durations for a movie title, MC now picks based on number of audio streams (if they differ) rather than duration.
So what does it prefer there? The playlist with more audio streams?

[ddjmagic]

I still haven't found any indication where this logic would be in XBMC. :p

XBMC (Frodo) is able to display the full menu for a few of those discs (non BD-J) could this be helping with its selection?

Would it help if I sent you part of the XBMC debug log when one of those problem titles is selected?

[starla]

XBMC (Frodo) is able to display the full menu for a few of those discs (non BD-J) could this be helping with its selection?

Would it help if I sent you part of the XBMC debug log when one of those problem titles is selected?

If you / XBMC are using a menu to play the BD then it wont help LAV as the title selection is done by the HDVM inside libbluray (with the help of the user interaction).

[ddjmagic]

If you / XBMC are using a menu to play the BD then it wont help LAV as the title selection is done by the HDVM inside libbluray (with the help of the user interaction).

Sorry, I may have not been clear, it can play the full menu, if you choose too, but even without using the menu it is able to pick the main movie track (Main Movie is its default selection) it only plays the menu if you ask it too.

It looks like XBMC also uses HDMV/Libbluray to play the menu (When you choose the 'play menu' option)

[nx6]

LAV Filters 0.55

LAV Video
- Improved handling of raw RGB video with LAV Splitter (Video was upside-down in some cases)
- Improved support for the Overlay Mixer renderer
- Fixed decoding of non-mod16 video with CUVID
- Fixed DXVA2 decoding of H.264 MBAFF content with >= 16px cropping
- Support for fade in/out animations in DVD subtitles
- Fixed DVD menu overlays showing too early on some discs
- Fixed forced DVD subtitles being stuck on the screen until the next subtitle line
- Improved playback of MPEG-1 in MKV with Haali Splitter



Oho! I was having that issue. Thanks!

[ddjmagic]

Nev - I'm sorry you are right, I have made a mistake here.

XBMC does not have any logic different to LAV my tests were incorrect. This is what fooled me -

When I selected one of the problem titles from the library in XBMC, this comes up (Example Hellboy)

http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/23126/a795f3231257832.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/a795f3231257832)

Now I presumed (wrongly) that XBMC was telling me that playlist 30 was correct (which it is), kind of how Speedmenus would by listing it at the top.

In reality this was just giving me a list of titles it thinks the main movie might be and it just listed them from low to high.

This is why some from my list worked and some didn't, it just depended on if the correct playlist was a lower number.

So that's why you couldn't find any extra logic in XBMC, it was never there to begin with :o

Sorry for anytime you wasted on this! :scared:

I've retested all the discs outside of the library by individually mounting them and using the "play disc" in XBMC, on all 10 cases its get the playlist wrong, so it is using exactly the same logic as LAV

[ddjmagic]

:stupid: :D

[iSunrise]

...Dithering when converting audio to 16-bit Integer...
Since LAV Audio is the reason why I changed from ffdshow to LAV, I am very happy that you decided to improve decoder quality even further. So, thanks a lot for adding dithering.

If I may ask, what kind of dithering did you implement?

Gonna try out 0.55 right now, very excited.

[nevcairiel]

Technically the need for dithering is already lowering quality. :p
You should output untouched audio, not converted to anything.

Right now its rectangular dithering. Note that i did not implement this myself, i use the avresample library for this.

[Pomegranate]

You should output untouched audio, not converted to anything.


But then you're at the mercy of the audio renderer.
If you use directsound or waveout, windows will reduce the bit depth to whatever is acceptable for the sound device.

And even if you're using an external receiver via hdmi, do all receivers accept float 32 wav?

The only way I've found to get accurate results is to use mpc-hc + LAV + Reclock (Kernel Streaming or Wasapi), set reclock to "slave reference clock to audio" and to output everything exactly as it received from LAV audio decoder. I also always set MPC-HC's volume control to 100%.

[madshi]

TPDF dithering (used by eac3to) is better... :p And it's relatively easy to implement. But rectangular dithering is much better than none, of course.

[Pomegranate]

Madshi, have you heard of izotope mbit+? It's proprietary and is included in the latest Sound Forge Pro.

[madshi]

Yes, I've heard of it. Supposed to be quite good.

[nevcairiel]

An alternative avresample offers is triangular dithering with noise shaping, but its much slower. Since i believe the decoder should output untouched audio and any conversion should be done as late as possible, i have no plans to spend time implementing my own solution.

[madshi]

There's no option for triangular dithering *without* noise shaping? That's weird. The noise shaping is likely what makes it slow...

[nevcairiel]

They have this as well. Its calld triangular highpass. Noise shaping also only works on 48 and 44.1khz right now

[madshi]

How slow is triangular highpass? Nearer to rectangular or nearer to noise shaping? My best guess is that triangular highpass is similar to what eac3to is doing. It shouldn't be *much* slower than rectangular, I think, just a little bit...

[hoborg]

Thanks for new release Nev.

It looks like YADIF deinterlacing doesn't work any longer, tested on MPEG-2 recording. No problem in prew. release.

[JEEB]

Thanks for new release Nev.

It looks like YADIF deinterlacing doesn't work any longer, tested on MPEG-2 recording. No problem in prew. release.
I think I noticed this as well, suddenly there was combing even if I had enabled yadif and set it to 25/30. This was before the 0.55 release, at commit 008a4d3 (seemed to work with 09911d3). If you need more revisions tested, feel free to poke.

[aufkrawall]

Thanks, nev. :)

[nevcairiel]

And i was wondering if YADIF was broken after i saw a patch to fix it on the ffmpeg mailing list this morning. :p

[mzso]

Is there a way to determine what are the limits for HW accelerated decoding? (Is it the same for CUVID and DXVA?)

[nevcairiel]

The limit is defined by your hardware, so its the same for any implementation (assuming the implementation isn't bugged).
You can try something like DXVAChecker for some basic idea about whats supported, otherwise there is some documentation on wikipedia (at least for NVIDIA its somewhat detailed on hardware support)

[mzso]

@nevcairiel
Thanks!
I can't find much on Wikipedia, but I'll check out the app.

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.55.1

General
- Clicking the Tray Icon with a Property Page already active brings it back to the front

LAV Splitter
- Added an option to disable quality-based audio stream selection (selects the first stream matching the language preferences)
- Removed Bitrate from audio quality criterias, because its too unreliable at this point.

LAV Video
- Fixed YADIF deinterlacing (broken after a ffmpeg update on 0.55)

LAV Audio
- Switched to Triangular Dithering for 16-bit Integer conversions


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1-x64.zip)

I knew there would be some issue that would require a fast bugfix release, this time it was YADIF being broken.

While i was fixing it, i added some other fixes and improvements, so that i can relax in peace on the weekend.

In case you missed the 0.55 release, here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1609997#post1609997) are the release notes!

- nev

[Plutotype]

Thanks Nev for your work, time to test some videos and movies!

[madshi]

- Switched to Triangular Dithering for 16-bit Integer conversions
Thanks!

[manni500]

I see that over at the imouto blog there is download available called "LAV Filters Megamix" which includes your filters together with a host of other products. Is this recommended?

--------------

As an afterthought, a question!
After installation of the latest LAV filters, I realize that I can no longer use Normalize or to be exact, it has no longer any effect when triggered. I am using Potplayer 32-bit and this "LAV Filters Megamix". I already checked if the problem goes away when installing the filters separately, that is w/o the megamix, but to no avail. The problem persists

Any suggestions?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Win7 Ultimate x64
PotPlayer x32
LAV Filters v55
plus all the others included in the Megamix

[Pomegranate]

Dude! How fast do you work?

Thanks for the new release.

[VipZ]

I have updated the LAVFilterSetttings application,
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?g3yzgnb7t84a71s

1.5 changelog,
- Reduced code size
- x64 binary

[pie1394]

LAV Filters 0.55


LAV Splitter
- Improved support for AAC in MPEG-TS (especially in ISDB-T)





It works as expectation when the file is not too big.

But the audio stream detection is broken when the TS file size is 31.5GB. It shows no audio stream. With 0.54.1, the audio stream is detected while the selected audio decoder is MS-DTV/DVD one.

Unfortunately I am unable to provide you an ISDB-T file in this size... If you are patient of getting a sample from bt, just search such sample with "Kouhaku" and "NHK-G MPEG2" keywords.

[nevcairiel]

Its not the file size. I got a small cut sample from the beginning of that file, and it looks like there is a problem at the start, and something in ffmpeg changed that handled it better previously, i'm tracking it down now.

[pie1394]

I don't know how many bytes the ts demuxer scans in the lav filter. It should always try to find a PAT first, and then the 1st PMT after such PAT. All stream contents before the first found PAT might belong to the different old programs.

In Europe, I ever heard that same channel could be used by different broadcasters at different time periods every day. So it might need the settop box's firmware program to handle the changes on the fly. Long time ago I actually wrote two ts demuxers to handle real-time dtv stream receiving/recording and just single ts file playback.

If I don't remember it wrong, the ISDB-T bandwidth is divided into 13 segements per 6 MHz channel. 1 segment bandwidth is allocated to transmit a smaller same video contents for Mobile phone device. It is 320x180 H.264 BP video + 50kbps HE-AAC audio streams



Found streams by MPC-BE

http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/23170/73a61d231691746.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/73a61d231691746)


Found streams by Lav Filter 0.55.1

http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/23170/5cb5bf231691729.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/5cb5bf231691729)

[nevcairiel]

Try with this version, it should handle it properly again:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1-4-gcf22211.zip

For the record, usually everything is returned from the demuxer, it doesn't cut at PAT/PMTs or something like that. IMHO its the fault of the problem creating the stream if there are frames of the old program in the file.
The real issue was with the aac detection which got confused by not finding a channel configuration at first, and then failed to detect it in the later audio frames.

And LAV usually hides audio streams with 0 channels, because they are usually channel elements which are detected from the PMT, but not actually saved in the TS stream, so it didn't find channel info for them.

[Jong]

Nev, I am having some trouble with DVD playback (specifically ffw and rew) in JRiver MC that doesn't occur with other formats or even with direct playback of VOB files (see last post in the linked thread). It looks like the time codes may be messed up, although that may be a completely erroneous supposition on my part!

I am using LAV 0.55 (included in last but one MC build). I haven't retested with 0.55.1, but nothing in the release notes suggest it should affect this issue.

I realise this falls in the cracks between JRiver and (I am assuming) LAV, although I guess MadVR might have a part in this too. Still I would be very grateful if you could take a look and give your opinion. Of course, if there is any more info you need from me you only need to ask! Thanks.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77141.msg522451#msg522451

[pie1394]

Try with this version, it should handle it properly again:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1-4-gcf22211.zip


It works now! :thanks:

Well, the seeking somewhat becomes broken with this 4:30:38.00 contents if it jumps to the time near 1:23:00.00 or after that. The playback will be frozen and no more functional. It needs to re-run the player again.



For the record, usually everything is returned from the demuxer, it doesn't cut at PAT/PMTs or something like that. IMHO its the fault of the problem creating the stream if there are frames of the old program in the file.
The real issue was with the aac detection which got confused by not finding a channel configuration at first, and then failed to detect it in the later audio frames.

And LAV usually hides audio streams with 0 channels, because they are usually channel elements which are detected from the PMT, but not actually saved in the TS stream, so it didn't find channel info for them.

I see! For this TS file, tsMuxerGUI-1.10.6 also mis-detects the truly available streams. Its analysis shows two video streams only. No AAC stream is listed. This file actually contains 1 MPEG-2 MP@HL stream + 2 LC-AAC streams. The additional one is with comment speaking, which can be demuxed with MPC-BE. LavFilter's analysis still shows only 1 valid AAC stream.

The streams for mobile devices should be only available when the ISDB-T demodulator receives and extracts the particular 1-seg signal.

[mark0077]

Hi, I'm using the latest LAV Filters 0.55.1. I notice an issue that audio gets significantly out of sync (0.5 seconds maybe), when seeking multiple times in some Blu-Rays. Seeking in "The Dark Knight", maybe 5-10 times in quick succession, I can reproduce this every time. Below is the pin info. This happens with cuvid or software lav video decoding. It doesn't happen with ffdshow video decoder. I'm using LAV Splitter and madVR video renderer in mpc-be. I'm launching it as a .m2ts file.

Can anyone reproduce?

- Connection media type:

Video: WVC1 1920x1080 23.976fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {31435657-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 0
bTemporalCompression: 1
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 146

Strangely it doesn't happen in for example, Sherlock Holmes Blu-Ray which has very similar pin info. Let me know if any other details necessary. I'm launching this one below as a .bdmv file incase that makes a difference.

- Connection media type:

Video: WVC1 1920x1080 23.976fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {31435657-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 0
bTemporalCompression: 1
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 143

EDIT: Tried switching streams to see if it was related to only true-hd content, but playback seems to stop for a few seconds each time I switch audio track. Audio remained out of sync however with non true-hd tracks.

[Mercury_22]

@Nev lately I'm getting a lot of this warnings ...remote: warning: unable to access '/root/.config/git/config': Permission denied
remote: warning: unable to access '/root/.gitconfig': Permission denied...when I'm trying to "clone"
But all seem to "clone" OK at the end

Is this OK ?:confused:

P.S. Only at 1f0.de seems to be this "problem"

[nevcairiel]

I updated git a few days ago, seems i forgot to adjust a config :p
Nothing bad, everything worked, just the warnings.

[SamuriHL]

LOL oops :)

[nevcairiel]

Its not my fault it changes behaviour without telling me. :p

[SamuriHL]

ROFLMAO! That's awesome :)

[dansrfe]

nevcairiel,

The problem of MPC-HC has been pinpointed to the DXVA2 Native decoding method as you said. If I switch to software decoding in LAV then the MPC-HC crash is completely gone. If I use the build you posted to the MPC-HC bug tracker with DXVA2 Native then the transition takes about 10 seconds for the video to start playing again on the other screen.

[nevcairiel]

Well that means it just takes incredibly long to re-init the D3D resources after a screen switch, nothing LAV can do about that, the renderer triggers the re-init (as it should), but something must be going wrong. Use software or Copy-Back? :p

[dansrfe]

Software and copy-back is working for now (software being the quickest). I hope madshi can fix the D3D init issue with dxva2 native soon.

[ice25]

Hey, when switching subtitles with same language in LAV i only get the basic language info (e.g. English, English, English). Whereas with the internal MPC-HC filter you get a bit more info (e.g. English:HQ White, English:HQ Yellow, English:SRT). Would it be possible to add that bit of information to the subtitle info in LAV as well?

[nevcairiel]

If you have a sample file where this is the case, i can have a look.

[ice25]

Sure, i uploaded the first 30 secs of a random movie where this is the case. http://www.sendspace.com/file/80tjtl

[ragg987]

Help - something with my subtitles has stopped working properly. I use LAV splitter in advanced subtitle mode. This used to work fine, but some recent upgrade has broken it.

Subtitle config is "eng:eng|f eng:off *:eng". All other settings are default.

When playing using MPC-HC with LAV video decoder and madVR renderer, I expect the following to happen:

Video with English audio - expect no subtitles unless forced. Result forced subtitles are not getting displayed.

Video with non-English audio - expect English subtitles. Result no subtitles are getting displayed.

The only way I can get subtitles to work is if I enable subtitles using MPC subtitles option. If enabled, then all videos show them, even if audio is English.

Using LAV 0.55.1, MPC-HC from Jan 2013 and madVR from Dec 2012. Win 7 32-bit. ATI HD5750 - LAV is not using GPU functions. Files are MKVs off my hard drive - I have checked the subtitle flags using MPC (forced and langauge) and they seem correct. I am not sure when this stopped working - worked well a few months ago.

[Devrim]

Hi,

I was just watching a 1080i clip on my computer when I noticed something. On my first screen, which is connected to my Nvidia card, the video just plays fine. When I move MPC-HC to my second monitor, which is connected to my onboard intel card, the clip starts stuttering. Do you know why? I use CUVID for decoding btw and it only seems to happen with 1080i content.

[nevcairiel]

Sure, i uploaded the first 30 secs of a random movie where this is the case. http://www.sendspace.com/file/80tjtl

I got that file, and everywhere i look in MPC-HC, it already shows the full stream titles.

- In Navigation -> Subtitle Language
- In Play -> Subtitles
- In Play -> Filters -> LAV Splitter
- Pressing subtitle hotkeys (S/Shift-S to switch streams, W to enable/disable)

Where exactly would this be missing? :)

[ice25]

Weird, it does indeed shows the full titles for me in the LAV Splitter menu etc, but it doesn't when i toggle between them with the S key. Unfortunately that's actually the one that matters for me, since the S key is bound to my remote subtitle button. Not sure what the problem would be then..

[nevcairiel]

That seems to be a feature of MPC-HC. In my version it shows the full name, but instead the S/Shift-S keys behave rather oddly, so i guess you can hope for the next version of MPC-HC? :)
Nothing LAV does, it exports the name in all possible places.

[Vasilich]

On my first screen, which is connected to my Nvidia card, the video just plays fine. When I move MPC-HC to my second monitor, which is connected to my onboard intel card, the clip starts stuttering. Do you know why? I use CUVID for decoding btw and it only seems to happen with 1080i content.
Maybe it is because when you move it to second screen with Intel, CUDA is not available for Intel? i guess you can see active decoder if you enable tray icon for LAV video filter.
Does it happen if you use DXVA?

[nevcairiel]

CUVID doesn't care which screen your player is on. My guess would be that quite simply your Intel GPU is too slow to handle playback. Are you potentially using madVR with some high scaling settings? Otherwise, deinterlacing alone could do it, but that would still be a bit of a surprise.

[Shark007]

CUVID doesn't care which screen your player is on.

Many of the newer laptops use the iGPU (Intel) for the Laptop screen and use the addon GPU (Nvidia) for the HDMI connection. (Asus N76 for example)

[mark0077]

nev, i uploaded a 1 minute sample of The Dark Knight Blu-Ray (~200mb). With lav video decoder, when I seek, audio goes out of sync (by about 0.5 seconds maybe), even 1 sync can reproduce it. I simply have lav splitter, audio and video decoders, along with mpc and madVR.

If you're interested in seeing can you reproduce on your end too, below is a link I uploaded the sample file to.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/qxvlbp

[nevcairiel]

I can't say i can reproduce any issues. No matter if i play from the start or seek, the sync seems to be the same through the file.

Note that its always important to note which decoder in LAV you are actually using.

[mark0077]

I have the issue when LAV Video "Hardware decoder to use" is set to "None". I reproduce by opening the file, seeking half way once.

I tried with "NVIDIA CUVID" as the decoder and can't reproduce the issue on the sample file I sent. Whats strange, I can't reproduce the issue either when NVIDIA CUVID is set as the decoder, and all of the "Codecs for HW" are disabled. I thought this was the equivalent of setting the decoder to "None". Obviously not as the sync issue only happens with "None".

[6233638]

I can confirm this on my end. In fact, it seems to be the same issue I reported about a year ago, but I wasn't able to determine the cause of the sync issues.
I mistakenly thought it was the "newly" introduced support for index.bdmv files, and I seem to remember having trouble with that title specifically. (and perhaps also Batman Begins, I forget)

I must have switched over to CUVID decoding at the time without realising that was what fixed my problem.

[wanezhiling]

Since that file is VC-1 stuff, and LAVs default software decoder for VC-1/WMV3 is MS DMO decoder, maybe we should blame MS?

[nevcairiel]

While it technically is the WMV9 DMOs fault and you could blame Microsoft, that doesnt resolve any issues for us.

So how about with this version?
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1-14-ga9c8d77.zip

Any issues can be worked around. :p
In this case, when the WMV9 DMO drops frames (after a seek, before a I frame), for some obscure reason it doesnt drop the timestamps, so the timestampts of the first frame (which got dropped) get applied to whatever frame is not dropped after the whole thing, giving you a nice AV offset.

Anyway, solution: dropping frames myself before the WMV DMO sees them.

[wanezhiling]

So how about with this version?
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1-14-ga9c8d77.zip
Works fine here now.:)


btw that file has 2 audio tracks? mpc-hc detects truehd only.

[nevcairiel]

Blu-ray TrueHD tracks always have the AC3 substream, but MPC-HC doesn't offer it.

[Aleksoid1978]

Blu-ray TrueHD tracks always have the AC3 substream, but MPC-HC doesn't offer it.

MPC-HC have options in MPEGSplitter how output TrueHD - TrueHD or AC3 Core.

[pururin]

Is there any difference between madFlac and LAV for FLAC files nowadays?
If not, we could just use LAV for everything?

[JEEB]

Is there any difference between madFlac and LAV for FLAC files nowadays?
If not, we could just use LAV for everything?
The only real reason to use madFlac I have heard has been about the splitter component, saying it exports more metadata from flac files.

tl;dr Not that I know (decoding-wise).

[DragonQ]

A few of my ripped MKVs have FLAC audio (can be quite a lot smaller than DTS-HD MA or TrueHD) and I've never had a problem with LAV playing them back.

[Devrim]

Maybe it is because when you move it to second screen with Intel, CUDA is not available for Intel? i guess you can see active decoder if you enable tray icon for LAV video filter.
Does it happen if you use DXVA?

If I start the video on my second screen (Intel GPU) CUVID shows as active. So I'm pretty sure CUVID is active.

[Devrim]

CUVID doesn't care which screen your player is on. My guess would be that quite simply your Intel GPU is too slow to handle playback. Are you potentially using madVR with some high scaling settings? Otherwise, deinterlacing alone could do it, but that would still be a bit of a surprise.

I'm using MadVR with high scaling settings yes. I will try setting the settings to bilinair and look if I still have the same problem. Maybe the MadVR developer can make 1 selected GPU do all the work :)

-edit-

Yeah MadVR seems to be the problem I have it on Jinc 3 taps now, if I set it to SoftCubic I don't see any problems. I will send the MadVR dev a message.

[mark0077]

While it technically is the WMV9 DMOs fault and you could blame Microsoft, that doesnt resolve any issues for us.

So how about with this version?
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.55.1-14-ga9c8d77.zip

Any issues can be worked around. :p
In this case, when the WMV9 DMO drops frames (after a seek, before a I frame), for some obscure reason it doesnt drop the timestamps, so the timestampts of the first frame (which got dropped) get applied to whatever frame is not dropped after the whole thing, giving you a nice AV offset.

Anyway, solution: dropping frames myself before the WMV DMO sees them.

Thanks Nev. Your solution works great, no more audio desync.

[cyberbeing]

madFlac VS. LAV Audio can also be personal preference for how you want a/v sync dealt with.

For example, when a MKV uses ordered chapters or segment linking, they can behave a bit differently when FLAC duration, Video duration, and ordered chapter duration don't match up exactly.

madFlac fills the gap with silence or halts(?) the decoder when a FLAC runs too long, in order to keep A/V sync.
Advantage: You'll never lose a/v sync in these cases
Disadvantage: Depending on your audio hardware, this can potentially cause a click/pop when it occurs.

LAV Audio instead freely goes out-of-sync, but quickly detects and corrects it (Auto A/V Sync = Enabled).
Advantage: By always keeping the decoder running, it eliminates the potential for audio anomalies. Auto A/V Sync is also a much more robust solution for dealing with other a/v sync issues you may run into during playback.
Disadvantage: There can be cases where a brief loss of a/v sync is perceivable

Note: Last time I tested this was ~1 year ago, but I don't believe madFLAC or LAV Audio has changed anything in this regard since then.

[nevcairiel]

I used to do instant A/V sync adjustments, however this causes issues with many containers where the timestamps are jittering very strongly (especially DTS-HD muxed with old mkvmerge versions), so yeah, the current solution is more robust. There is probably a small potential for making it react faster, too.

[madshi]

IIRC madFlac does not do any post-processing on its own. Instead every delivered audio package is simply decoded and output with the correct timestamp. It's a very simple and straighforward process. This way it's up to the audio renderer to handle situations with audio gaps/overlays. And I think this is the "proper" way to behave for audio decoders. I wouldn't expect video decoders to repeat or drop video frames, either, if the timestamps contain gaps or overlaps. That should be left to the video renderer. In the same way I think an audio decoder should also simply decode and not try to be clever. That's just my personal opinion, of course. And my experience with writing an audio decoder is very much limited to just FLAC, nothing else.

[nevcairiel]

That would work, if audio renderers would be smart. :p
The built-in renderers which like everyone uses crap themself on such issues like the heavily jittering timestamps of old DTS-HD MKV files. Even worse, they seem to use audio timestamps to advance the reference clock, so if those are screwed up, everything goes to hell.

[madshi]

I still think an audio renderer should just "passthrough" (decode) without modifying timestamps. If the audio timestamps are broken in the container, the logical place to fix that would be the splitter, or maybe the audio renderer, but not the audio decoder, IMHO. But, as I said, this is just my personal opinion... :)

[nevcairiel]

The splitter should just pass-through what is in the file, though! :p

The problem is that for the splitter it can get quite complicated to figure out the duration of audio, needs to be able to parse a whole bunch of formats.
The decoder has it easy, audio always has a defined duration, so it can generate 100% accurate timestamps, just needs to pay attention to A/V sync.

[madshi]

The splitter should just pass-through what is in the file, though! :p
I think if there are bugs in the container, it's the splitter's job to work around that. If there are bugs in the audio bitstream, it's the decoder's job to work around that. At least that would be logical.

The problem is that for the splitter it can get quite complicated to figure out the duration of audio, needs to be able to parse a whole bunch of formats.
The decoder has it easy, audio always has a defined duration, so it can generate 100% accurate timestamps, just needs to pay attention to A/V sync.
Yes, I see what you mean. However, this way you decide that all other audio decoders need to implement the same "timestamp repair" logic, too, or otherwise they won't play nice with LAV splitter, if the container timestamps are screwed up. And I don't think that many other audio decoders try to fix broken timestamps. I don't know for sure, though.

[more2read]

"Dolby E never reaches home viewers, it is used when passing material between production facilities and broadcasters, but is decoded before transmission.
Dolby E encoding and decoding is implemented using commercially available hardware or software."
So, not meant for home consumption, I guess.

Just throwing this out there, as it may be beyond the scope of media playback......
While there are no Directshow Codecs for DolbyE, the hardware decoders(DP572) have become "reasonably" priced on ebay. Depends on how Hard Core you are on playing it.
The decoder has a headphone jack for monitoring the sound, but it's limited. For full channel sound, you need a Dolby Digital encoder(DP569), which have become "reasonably" priced too, and a Dolby Digital Audio Receiver, and a few other small pieces.
Again, just depends on how bad you want to hear the track.

[starla]

Even worse, they seem to use audio timestamps to advance the reference clock, so if those are screwed up, everything goes to hell.

I know at least one renderer that generates the reference clock from the audio HW :P

-
MP/ tourettes

[nevcairiel]

I know at least one renderer that generates the reference clock from the audio HW :P

-
MP/ tourettes

ReClock does as well, but the majority of people use DirectSound/WaveOut, which is this broken. :p

[Pomegranate]

Hi. I have an Nvidia GTS 250 card and using Windows Xp. Only cuvid hardware decoder works, but in LAV video configuration, both DXVA2 items are listed as available. If I select either one of those two, avcodec takes over. Is this normal?

[DragonQ]

Yes, DXVA2 only works on Vista/7/8.

[Pomegranate]

Well, "D'oh!" is my only response.

But cuvid is nice though, it works with VC-1 on my system. I never managed to play 1080p VC-1 in MPC-HC, but now I can!

[Rimsky]

Why LAV splitter does't support linked mkv-files yet?
And switching tracks/subs in splitter tray menu is more comfortable, IMHO

[madshi]

Why LAV splitter does't support linked mkv-files yet?
Because nobody is helping nevcairiel with LAV development. How about you? You could learn programming, so you can help out with LAV development.

[paradoxical]

Why LAV splitter does't support linked mkv-files yet?

Because he hasn't gotten to it yet. Code doesn't just appear out of the æther.

You may not have meant it, but your post has a ring of entitlement to it which doesn't really engender positive responses.

[celsworth]

Hello,

I have just recently upgraded my LAV from a rather ancient 0.50.5 (following the ain't-broke-not-touching-it principle) to the current.

I've discovered that I have video files that stopped playing video after this upgrade, and after a good bit of reinstalling different versions of LAV and rebooting, narrowed it down to between 0.54.1 (last version that it works on) and 0.55 (doesn't work) - 0.55.1 doesn't work either.

Comparing a working video and the non-working ones in MediaInfo is leaving me a little baffled because they're identical apart from the library used to write them; the broken ones were written with x264.exe (mkv2rls x264-tv version built on 2011. febr. 17), and the working ones were mkvmerge.

What other information can I give you to try and track this down? Would it be ok to name the non-working files, given they're 720p scene encodes of a popular TV show set around storage lockers in Texas (try 2x08)?

I'm playing them in MediaPortal, with CUVID enabled. Audio plays, but I just get a black screen.

[DragonQ]

Which version of TSReader (MediaPortal's splitter) are you using? The version that comes with 1.2.3 is crap and can cause issues - if you haven't upgraded to 1.3.0 Beta then get the latest TSReader.ax file from here (http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/experimental-tsreader-development.102693/#post-811296).

[celsworth]

Just tried version 69 from that page with no change. I was using an older version of that, possibly 45, can't remember exactly. I'm on MediaPortal 1.2.2

Upon more inspection of the files that don't work, they all seem to be EVOLVE encodes, so I'm guessing its something they're encoding with.. Even their mkvmerge ones, so ignore the x264.exe comment above.

Turning off CUVID and trying DXVA or no acceleration at all doesn't do anything either.

I checked evr.log from MediaPortal and compared a working one vs a failing one, here's the major differences..

Working:
16-01-2013 23:27:06.264 [1680]Testing media type...
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]Successfully cloned media type
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]Time Per Frame: 33.367 ms
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]Setting MFVideoTransferMatrix_BT709
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]MF_MT_INTERLACE_MODE: 2
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]MF_MT_FRAME_RATE: 29.970 fps
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]Frame size: 1280x720
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]Aperture size: 0:0, 1280x720
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]New media type successfully negotiated!
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]Getting aspect ratio 'DirectShow style'
16-01-2013 23:27:06.265 [1680]New format: 1280x720, Ratio: 16:9

Failure:
16-01-2013 23:27:43.585 [1680]Testing media type...
16-01-2013 23:27:43.585 [1680]Successfully cloned media type
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]Time Per Frame: 33.367 ms
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]Setting MFVideoTransferMatrix_BT601
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]MF_MT_INTERLACE_MODE: 2
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]MF_MT_FRAME_RATE: 29.970 fps
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]Frame size: 1276x718
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]Aperture size: 0:0, 1276x718
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]New media type successfully negotiated!
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]Getting aspect ratio 'DirectShow style'
16-01-2013 23:27:43.586 [1680]New format: 1276x718, Ratio: 88672:49901

There's some odd looking resolutions and ratios in that failing one, and I notice some changes related to cropping in LAV v0.55? I don't see any other obvious looking errors though

Edit: full evr logs at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38877106/tmp/evr_fail.log and https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38877106/tmp/evr_working.log

[nevcairiel]

Plays just fine for me with DXVA2 Native, Software or QuickSync. I only tested in MPC-HC with LAV as the MKV splitter, because MP is terrible to test in.
The resolution is a bit odd, but shouldn't be any problem. Its just 1280x720 with a bit cropping right and bottom.

[owlsroost]

celsworth - update your MP installation to version 1.2.3 - there was a bug in older versions with handling weird aspect ratios (like 88672:49901) which was fixed in 1.2.3

Tony

[celsworth]

owlsroost, ok thanks, will give it a try :)

[pururin]

So apart from a/v sync handling, I think there is no real difference between LAV Filters and madFlac in playback various Flac files, correct?

What about this:
The only real reason to use madFlac I have heard has been about the splitter component, saying it exports more metadata from flac files.

tl;dr Not that I know (decoding-wise).

If splitter is the key, say if I use Haali media splitter then the outcome will be difference too? (especially for some multi-channel Flac files)

[nevcairiel]

JEEB was only talkin about metadata, which is optional information not relevant at all for decoding.
If you have a FLAC file that doesn't work as expected in LAV, let me know, otherwise i'm going to claim there are no differences.

[madshi]

I don't really know how LAV and madFlac compare. When LAV Audio Decoder first came out I tried it and had problems with the FLAC decoding. But that was *ages* ago. I guess the LAV FLAC decoder will probably work very well today. But I haven't really tried myself, so I can't say. And to be honest, I don't care much. madFlac has always worked perfectly fine for me, so I see no reason to stop using it. One thing to note is that libav/ffmpeg (which LAV uses for FLAC decoding) is constantly being worked on. When I recently updated the libav version eac3to ships with I had to do a lot of changes to make it compile. And they're working on totally changing the programming interface *again* right now. There's always a chance something could break once in a while (and then get fixed a few days later). madFlac is based on the official libFlac decoder which was last changed in the year 2007. So basically with madFlac there's no danger of anything breaking suddenly when you update to a new build. madFlac also hasn't been updated in years. Simply because there's no need to. That said, I understand the wish to reduce the number of filters you have to install. So try both and make up your own mind. Of course LAV has the advantage of supporting x64 media players, which madFlac does not support.

[JEEB]

If splitter is the key, say if I use Haali media splitter then the outcome will be difference too? (especially for some multi-channel Flac files)
What? Haali has no flac splitter as far as I know. Depending on how the FLAC stream is output I guess some kind of OGG wrapping might make it work with the OGM splitter Haali has, but I seriously doubt that.

Also what does metadata and multi-channel audio have to do with each other?

As nev said, decoding-wise there should be no difference, and if there is such, it should be reported instead of continuing a cargo cult.

madshi, excuse me (http://git.xiph.org/?p=flac.git;a=summary)? While certainly there have been no releases since 1.2.1, there are still commits being made to the flac repository, even if most of them most probably are regarding the build system and old hacks they had in there (I could note some code-wise changes as well though, looking at the changelog).

Also I do kind of see your hatred on libav* libraries as funny. And I would much more prefer dealing with an active project at which I know people that I can poke to dealing with a piece of software that is basically on eternal maintenance mode (and which I only lately found out had even that done to it). If there are bugs or features not yet in libavcodec, they should be squashed. That's all. It happened with wavpack and AAC in 2011, and it can happen with other formats as well.

Edit:
Just to note -- I do hate libavfilter's API and the code within libswscale, as well as I can see common dislike towards the sometimes quick changes in APIs in libav*. But it's still not a real reason to completely disapprove of it.

[madshi]

What? Haali has no flac splitter as far as I know.
Haali's MKV splitter supports FLAC audio.

madshi, excuse me (http://git.xiph.org/?p=flac.git;a=summary)? While certainly there have been no releases since 1.2.1, there are still commits being made to the flac repository
http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html

Also I do kind of see your hatred on libav* libraries as funny.

[...]

But it's still not a real reason to completely disapprove of it.
Huh? What's wrong with you today?? Where did I say I completely disapprove or even hate libav? Please don't put words in my mouth. Especially not something which is the total opposite of the truth! :mad:

I absolutely very much like ffmpeg/libav. It's the very cornerstone of eac3to and I'm using it in madVR, too. What I don't like is that the interface is constantly changing and requiring me to do lots of changes to my own code all the time. But that is of no concern to users.

And I would much more prefer dealing with an active project at which I know people that I can poke to dealing with a piece of software that is basically on eternal maintenance mode
What's wrong with putting something which is "completed" (and working well without any bugs worth mentioning) on maintenance mode?

What I said is nothing but the truth: If you look through the LAV thread, there have been multiple occasions where updating to the latest ffmpeg/libav version resulted in new bugs which nevcairiel had then to analyze and fix himself. And this won't happen with a stable and "final" decoder implemention like the official libFlac used by madFlac. Now were there any bugs in FLAC decoding in LAV recently? I don't think so. Or is it likely that such bugs could crop up in the near future? Probably not. But the way libav works you always have to update all splitters and decoders, even the ones which were working perfectly in the previous version. So there always is a small risk new bugs could creep in into any of the supported decoders. That's just the way it is. And that's one reason I consider using the official libFlac decoder an advantage, because you don't have to update it just because something changed in e.g. the h264 decoder.

Now does that mean that I recommend that everybody should use madFlac? No, not at all. If you read my previous comment I mentioned advantages and disadvantages of both madFlac and LAV's FLAC decoder, and told pururin to make up his own mind. I don't know how I can be more objective than that.

Anyway, this is my last post on the topic of FLAC decoding in this thread.

[JEEB]

Haali's MKV splitter supports FLAC audio.
Yes, but I thought this was regarding FLAC without any extra wrapping in any containers.

http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html
Yes, the change log only seems to contain releases, and since there have been no releases since, there is nothing on the change log.

Huh? What's wrong with you today?? Where did I say I completely disapprove or even hate libav? Please don't put words in my mouth. Especially not something which is the total opposite of the truth! :mad:
OK, do excuse me then. I just kind of read the feeling of "libav* is often API-unstable and thus automatically inferior." between the lines. There's just been too many cases of people dismissing libav* for various more or less random reasons and those feelings must've messed up with me :/

What's wrong with putting something which is "completed" (and working well without any bugs worth mentioning) on maintenance mode?
Absolutely nothing. And the fact that there are still commits on the flac git repository means that it's not yet completely abandoned, which is great by itself.

[madshi]

OK, do excuse me then. I just kind of read the feeling of "libav* is often API-unstable and thus automatically inferior." between the lines. There's just been too many cases of people dismissing libav* for various more or less random reasons and those feelings must've messed up with me :/
Ok, no problem. FWIW, I think libav/ffmpeg is by far the best and most important open source project for home cinema (without it LAV Filters wouldn't even exist). But that doesn't stop me from finding some things to criticize once in a while... ;)

[P.J]

How to set Dynamic Range to Full? :thanks:

[Blight]

nev, can you take a look at this:
http://www.d-cine.net/trailers/Promos/CandyBar/PopcornCombo_advertisement_DCP.zip

It uses the "MXF" format (http://www.pro-mpeg.org/pages/main.php?page=0002).
LAV is capable of decoding the audio file, which LAV Splitter is listing as "MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM {00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}"
The video file isn't fully supported, LAV Splitter lists the output pin as "MEDIASUBTYPE_mjp2 {32706A6D-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}"
But LAV Video doesn't accept a connection from LAV Splitter on this file.

[nevcairiel]

MJP2 is JPEG2000, which is not supported by LAV Video, because ffmpeg has no native decoder for it.

[madshi]

http://www.openjpeg.org/ :D

[nevcairiel]

Yeah i'm not sure bundling this library is a good idea for a fringe format like J2K

[madshi]

Yeah, I'm not sure, either. MXF content is very rare.

[Konrad Klar]

Is there a chance for a settings specific to program?
I preffer best quality in general, but some programs do not accept audio with depth > 16 bit or with more than 2 channels, for example.
For such programs a special settings would be very useful.

[mzso]

What's wrong with putting something which is "completed" (and working well without any bugs worth mentioning) on maintenance mode?

I seem to remember (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84014) that it has serious limitations with file/stream sizes.

[Blight]

nev:
It's a shame, it seems this format is used by movie theaters to distribute content digitally.
Is there any MJPEG2000 directshow codec out there?

[nevcairiel]

If you happen to have such content, you should probably also have the software to play it. :p
I'm not going to bundle the openjpeg library, if avcodec ever gets native support (more then its rather broken experimental codec), LAV will automatically inherit it.

[filler56789]

Is there any MJPEG2000 directshow codec out there?

MainConcept MJ2 Video Decoder ( mc_dec_j2k_ds.ax + mc_dec_j2k.dll ).

[wanezhiling]

MPC-BEs video decoder seems to support. http://i6.minus.com/jbrw1fbViqpyV7.png

[nevcairiel]

Probably enabled the experimental decoder in avcodec, but its rather unstable and crashes a lot, or the bundled the openjpeg library, but neither are options i'm willing to do for a format which is of no importance.

[Pomegranate]

Would it be possible to have a mediainfo tab (or anything similar) inside LAV Splitter menu during playback?

[GrandeBoma]

I am experiencing problems with dtsdecoderdll.dll placement in windows 8 64 bit and jriver 17. I have tried to put it in lav folders and in sys64WOW folders, without any result. Contrariwise, when i use windows xp 32 bit in another partition I can easily copy the same file in lav or system32 folders and in this case it is properly decoding dts hd ma to pcm. Is there a different folder where I have to place the file in win8 x64? Is there a different version of dtsdecoderdll.dll to be used in this case?

P.S. obviously i am referring to red october HQ which shows LAC audio decoder in use in both cases

[jmone]

You can tell it is working by just clicking on the Audio Path button in Std View - as per second pic in the wiki http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Path . If it just says DTS it is not using the dtsdecoderdll.dll.

[GrandeBoma]

I have already checked, it is confirmed it only works in winxp x32 but not in win8 x64

i installed it in the folders recommended for win7 x64 but it is not working

[Vasilich]

Frequently asked Question (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1425964#post1425964)
Q: Can LAV Audio decode DTS-HD?
A: Kind of. On its own, it cannot. But, LAV Audio supports using the ArcSoft DTS decoder, which allows decoding of full DTS-HD. Just drop the "dtsdecoderdll.dll" from the TMT3/5 Codecs directory into LAV Audio's directory, and enjoy. NOTE: This only works on 32-bit!

[jmone]

FYI - JRiver Media Center is a 32-Bit app so it works fine (including on a Win7-64Bit OS), the issue seems to be on Win8-64 Bits OS. I don't have an Win8 Box to test but I'm sure others do.

[pururin]

Frequently asked Question (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1425964#post1425964)

I think that means 32 bit apps not the OS as I'm using it in win7 64 bit.
- - - - - - - -

Also I would like to THANK Nev, madshi, JEEB and others for your support and clarification. Really appreciate. :)

[apgood]

By lab folders do you mean the local that jriver has installed lab audio to? If not then it might be worthwhile copying there or installing your own version of lab and using the custom settings feature in jriver for audio.

Though I do have some vague recollection of reading somewhere that win 8 has tighter controls around use of ell files so that might be the issue.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[GrandeBoma]

i mean precisely lav folders installed by jriver, it does not work in those

[nevcairiel]

Depending on the version of the DLL you have, you need the 2003 or 2005 C++ runtime. The 2005 version you can get directly from Microsoft here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3387
Only the very old versions of the ArcSoft DLL need the 2003 variant (1.1.0.0 and 1.1.0.1 i think), but sadly that one is not easily available on the net.

[khagaroth]

Note that FLAC is now maintained by Xiph for some time already. The repository and development moved to Xiphs git (https://git.xiph.org/?p=flac.git;a=summary).

[JEEB]

Note that FLAC is now maintained by Xiph for some time already. The repository and development moved to Xiphs git (https://git.xiph.org/?p=flac.git;a=summary).
Yes, I happened to link that during the discussion :)

[GrandeBoma]

is the c++ not included in win8 pro?

[nevcairiel]

is the c++ not included in win8 pro?

No. They don't bundle those. Applications that need it are supposed to bring their own.

[P.J]

No support, no thanks.

[filler56789]

Just for the notes, the Arcsoft DTS DLL depends on msvcr80.dll and msvcp80.dll ( according to my hex editor at least :) ). Also, the ancient VS 2003 runtimes are part of the .NET environment (or at least I think so):

mfc70.dll
mfc71.dll
mfc71u.dll
msvcp70.dll
msvcp71.dll
msvcr70.dll
msvcr71.dll

ERROR: too many DLLs :D

[nevcairiel]

Only msvcr71.dll and msvcp71.dll are required for the old ArcSoft decoder, the others not (and yes, they are part of the .NET 1.1 runtime). And the newer versions indeed use msvcr/p80.dll, which is the 2005 runtime.

[mark0077]

Do you guys keep the c++ runtimes up to date. I see some sites with all c++ runtimes in one installer. Updated very frequently. I assume that means they should be kept updated and windows update doesn't do that?

[nevcairiel]

Windows Update does update them if you install them with the official installer.

[SamuriHL]

I have the VC++ runtime installed and I can't get the dtsdecoder dll to work on W8 pro, either.

[GrandeBoma]

so perhaps it is a problem that should be looked into, how to make it work under win8

[MarkT]

If unsure what .DLLs are required, use http://www.dependencywalker.com/ (Freeware) to figure it out.

[SamuriHL]

It works under TMT. Just not under LAV. Which blows cause with my new TV I can actually use Video Clock to keep things stable but without proper DTS-HD MA decoding, not so much.

[nevcairiel]

You can test if 0.55.0 worked, it did the loading of the dll a bit differently (only that version, not earlier or newer).
Otherwise, early adopters always get burned. :p

[SamuriHL]

LMAO. :) I'll give it a try later. If I can find it.

[nevcairiel]

I know why i am laughing, because i have a Windows 7 HTPC in perfect working order, why you're laughing, i don't know. :p

All old releases (up to a point) are on Google code:
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/downloads/list

PS:
The best chance of the DLL being loaded would be when you put it into the system directory (%WINDIR%\SysWoW64 for a 64-bit OS)

[SamuriHL]

The early adopter comment. If I can't get decoding working it's not the end of the world. Just means I can stabilize my video with Video Clock.

[jmone]

Well....I may agree on a multi purpose PC but 100% I'd roll back to Win7 if I could not get it to work on a dedicated HTPC (pretty big limitation IMO and few other advantages for Win8)

[dansrfe]

What are the recommended values for the mix levels? The defaults have 0.71, 0.71, and 0 for LFE but if I have a 2.1 system that cleanly separates out the LFE frequencies then what should I set that value to? What should I set the other values to as well and are there any particular standard values?

EDIT: I'm getting plenty of bass response from the subwoofer at LFE mix level of 0... I'm confused. Is that mix level slider to mix in more than a particular value of LFE?

[SamuriHL]

Well....I may agree on a multi purpose PC but 100% I'd roll back to Win7 if I could not get it to work on a dedicated HTPC (pretty big limitation IMO and few other advantages for Win8)

I'm not rolling back. It was a HUGE PITA to upgrade to W8. I'll figure it out...even if I have to do custom profiles.

[fairchild]

For 2.0 mixing (to headphones) I'm just using the default settings of 0.71 (center), 0.71 (surround), 0 (LFE) and haven't had any problems, though another user had said the correct/accurate settings are 0.71 (center), 1.0 (surround), 0.71 (LFE)

[e-t172]

Oh, it's that time again when everyone is throwing around their own (often wrong) downmixing coefficients. Reminds me of the famous LFE debate I had with nevcairiel.

To put an end to the never-ending discussions on this topic: the authoritative reference is ITU-R BS.775 - Multichannel stereophonic sound system with and without accompanying picture (http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.775-3-201208-I!!PDF-E.pdf).

We can see on page 11 that proper downmixing from 5.1 to 2.0 is:

L = 1*L + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*LS
R = 1*R + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*RS

Note that some audio formats allow for metadata containing custom downmixing coefficients. I don't think LAV Audio uses them though, which is unfortunate.

LFE is the most controversial part. See Annex 7 (page 13) on the ITU document for a wealth of information on the subject. There is even a whole section for "education" on how to reproduce LFE correctly, which is surprising to find in a specification. The bottom line about LFE is:

- If you don't have a system capable of really good bass response (i.e. expensive subwoofer), then don't keep LFE. Otherwise it is likely to overload your woofers and result in increased distortion. That's not a good deal in most cases.

- If you do have a system capable of handling high-SPL bass output, then do keep LFE in the mix. LFE is supposed to be played back 10dB louder than any of the other channels. In the bass region signals coming from two stereo speakers are likely to be coherent, which means the output from the two speakers sum up to +6dB (and not +3dB as I believed until recently - although I'm not sure about headphones), and besides, if you're using bass management to a subwoofer (2.1 system), then it is definitely +6dB because bass signals will be summed electrically in the bass management system. So that means LFE must be amplified by 4dB (10 - 6) before being mixed into the two stereo channels. The result is:

L = 1*L + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*LS + 1.5848*LFE
R = 1*R + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*RS + 1.5848*LFE

To be on the safe side the result would require normalization to prevent clipping.

[Nevilne]

I would love to know what's the LAV equivalent for ffdshow default 5.1>2.0 downmix.

[bugmen0t]

@Nevilne
It is:
L = 1*L + 0.7071*C + 1*LS + 0.7071*LFE
R = 1*R + 0.7071*C + 1*RS + 0.7071*LFE
i.e. Center Mix Level = 0.71, Surround Mix Level = 1 and LFE Mix Level = 0.71.

@e-t172
Thanks for these infos. Can you please explain how the 1.5848 is computed? I understand that 0.7071 ~= 1/sqrt(2) comes from solving 2*LFE^2 = 1.

EDIT: Thanks e-t172, i see. It is 1.5848 ~= 10^(1/5). But -3dB is 10^(-3/20) |= 1/sqrt(2). Why is that?

EDIT2: It seems they use 1/sqrt(2) because routing to n channels needs a 1/sqrt(n) coefficient to achieve same loudness (only about -3dB by coincidence; got that from ac3filter site).
Adding 10dB means multiplying by sqrt(10) (from e-t172s link below). Correcting for two channels should be sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(2) = sqrt(5) then, however they seem to use four channels giving sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(4) = sqrt(10)/2 ~= 1.5811. Someone able to explain why?

[e-t172]

@e-t172
Thanks for that infos. Can you please explain how the 1.5848 is computed? I understand that 0.7071 ~= 1/sqrt(2) comes from solving 2*LFE^2 = 1.


0.7071 is simply -3dB. 1.5848 is +4dB. Here's a handy calculator (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm).

[alexacolor]

DXVA acceleration of H.264 for video cards AMD broken. It is forever?

[Snowknight26]

DXVA acceleration of H.264 for video cards AMD broken. It is forever?

It's not broken..

[CiNcH]

@nev,

the DVBViewer does not detect AAC audio inside an ADTS container when LAV Splitter is being used. As a result, the DVBViewer does not try to use the AAC decoder selected within its options. The reason is that LAV Spitter proposes a proprietary(?) media subtype GUID:

MEDIASUBTYPE_ADTS_FOURCC = '{53544441-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}'; //ADTS LAV Splitter


DVBViewer GE will add this for the next release. But wouldn't it be better if LAV Splitter proposed the more standard-like MS media subtype GUID:

MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG_ADTS_AAC = '{00001600-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}'; //ADTS Microsoft

?

[nevcairiel]

LAV Splitters outputs several different types for AAC, one being that one, but also an official Microsoft one (MEDIASUBTYPE_AAC). DVBViewer should be looking at all media types offered for a pin, and not only the first (which is really a special format just for LAV Audio, but needs to be the first so its actually used over the others)

[SamuriHL]

Nev, just wanted to let you know I managed to fix the DTS-HD MA decoding issue. Not 100% sure what fixed it. But it's working for me on W8 Pro X64 with MC18 so I'm good.

[Rimsky]

Because nobody is helping nevcairiel with LAV development. How about you? You could learn programming, so you can help out with LAV development.
Thanks, but I can't
I'm stupid in programming

[dansrfe]

Latest build of LAVFilters doesn't work with the latest build of ICL13 build of MPC-HC x86. If I use the lite version if works fine.

[alexacolor]

Originally Posted by alexacolor
DXVA acceleration of H.264 for video cards AMD broken. It is forever?
It's not broken..

HD2400. latest drivers. in settings dialog set "DXVA (native)" and "h.264" is on, but he says ''active decoder - avcodec", and video freezes.
MPC-HC and Splash player plays h.264 video with hardware acceleration.

[nevcairiel]

I don't have access so such ancient AMD hardware, so i cannot test myself, however i have had no reports of this not working before. Note that LAVs DXVA is only designed to work on Windows Vista/7/8, if you're still on XP, it will most likely not work.

[alexacolor]

I don't have access so such ancient AMD hardware, so i cannot test myself, however i have had no reports of this not working before. Note that LAVs DXVA is only designed to work on Windows Vista/7/8, if you're still on XP, it will most likely not work.

it was a laptop, with windows 7 Home. All other videos plays with Acceleration.
Tomorrow i test this on other ati\amd videoadapters.

[6233638]

Oh, it's that time again when everyone is throwing around their own (often wrong) downmixing coefficients. Reminds me of the famous LFE debate I had with nevcairiel.OK, I have deleted my post now, because I'm really not sure what things should be at. My post was based on the information you posted last time this came up, however: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1597794&postcount=12660

We can see on page 11 that proper downmixing from 5.1 to 2.0 is:

L = 1*L + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*LS
R = 1*R + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*RSHere, I had been using 1.0000 for the surround channels, because this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1587652#post1587652) on the subject seemed to indicate that was required for 0.7071 due to how LAV Audio handled downmixing.

However, I have been doing some testing on that, and it seems that using 0.7071 is the correct value to use after all.

- If you do have a system capable of handling high-SPL bass output, then do keep LFE in the mix. LFE is supposed to be played back 10dB louder than any of the other channels. In the bass region signals coming from two stereo speakers are likely to be coherent, which means the output from the two speakers sum up to +6dB (and not +3dB as I believed until recently - although I'm not sure about headphones), and besides, if you're using bass management to a subwoofer (2.1 system), then it is definitely +6dB because bass signals will be summed electrically in the bass management system. So that means LFE must be amplified by 4dB (10 - 6) before being mixed into the two stereo channels. The result is:

L = 1*L + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*LS + 1.5848*LFE
R = 1*R + 0.7071*C + 0.7071*RS + 1.5848*LFE

To be on the safe side the result would require normalization to prevent clipping.This part is confusing to me, because I'm not quite sure I understand how you are arriving at it.

It's accepted that LFE is supposed to be played back at +10dB
If you are sending LFE to both stereo channels, you need to reduce that by 3dB, correct? (same reason Center is at -3dB)

So does that mean each channel is supposed to be amplified by +7dB, or +6dB?

7dB + 7dB = 10dB
Or is the target 9dB (10dB - 3dB = 9dB) which means two channels of 6dB each. (6dB + 6dB = 9dB)

It seems like the channels should be boosted by 7dB, which would be 2.24 LFE, not 1.5848.

0.7071 is simply -3dB. 1.5848 is +4dB. Here's a handy calculator (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm).Are you sure this calculator is correct? It says -3dB is 0.707946 and not 0.7071


Anyway, rather than keeping this all theoretical, I decided to create test tones and dump the audio once it was passed through LAV's mixer.

So to do this test, I created a 5.1 FLAC file in Audacity that had L, R, C, Ls, Rs each playing a 500Hz Square Wave tone at 0dB for 2s each, with LFE encoded at -10dB: http://www.sendspace.com/file/4y0wqh (Plays L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs)

I then tried different values in LAV's mixer. Setting Center or Surround to 1.000 played back those channels at 0dB, and not -3dB as it had previously been suggested. They need to be set to 0.7071

With the LFE mix, LFE needs to be set to 2.2387 for a 7dB boost (using the calculator you posted) which matches LFE volume with the Center & Surround, at -3dB.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/2.23878ei3t.png (http://www.abload.de/img/2.23878ei3t.png)

1.5848 LFE is noticeably lower in volume. (6-8s)
http://www.abload.de/thumb/1.5848lpeke.png (http://www.abload.de/img/1.5848lpeke.png)


Here is something that I am wondering though: Does LAV's Normalization reduce volume too much?

If I enable Normalization, and use a test file that has all channels at 0dB (http://www.sendspace.com/file/tvmmg5), rather than LFE at -10dB, there's still 6.4dB of headroom left. You can't go above 0dB, can you?

http://www.abload.de/thumb/norm8jljx.png (http://www.abload.de/img/norm8jljx.png)

So it seems like you could go quite a bit louder than that without clipping. But this is not an area where I have any experience at all, so there's a good chance that I am wrong.

EDIT: Nevermind - of course when you start adding channels together in the downmix, they get louder, so this is required to prevent clipping when all channels are at 0dB together.

[GrandeBoma]

Nev, just wanted to let you know I managed to fix the DTS-HD MA decoding issue. Not 100% sure what fixed it. But it's working for me on W8 Pro X64 with MC18 so I'm good.

Perhaps you could tell which folder you have installed it in, and which version of the dll it is. Please?

[e-t172]

This part is confusing to me, because I'm not quite sure I understand how you are arriving at it.

It's accepted that LFE is supposed to be played back at +10dB
If you are sending LFE to both stereo channels, you need to reduce that by 3dB, correct? (same reason Center & Surround are at -3dB)

Not quite. That's what you may think, but there's a little more to it. My previous post that you linked to is wrong, because some of my assumptions were incorrect at the time (hey, we're all learning here).

The reason why center is 3dB is because playing back a signal from two incoherent acoustical sources result in +3dB SPL. Stereo speakers are incoherent sources above bass frequencies (I'm not sure why - I think it has to do with subtle phase differences and room reflections). The most important frequencies (i.e. voice) are not bass frequencies, so stereo speakers will not reproduce them coherently. This is the reason why the ITU is using 3dB for the center channel (I think).

I have no idea why they're using 3dB for surround instead of the more intuitive 0dB. Probably because they don't want surround signals to overwhelm the front stage. In this way the 3dB number for surrounds seems much more arbitrary.

For LFE however, this is a whole other story. LFE is bass only. This means that if you use both stereo speakers to reproduce these frequencies, they will be coherent, and so they will add up to +6dB SPL (and not +3dB - that's the mistake I made in the posts I wrote some time ago). In addition, if in the end you're using a subwoofer to reproduce these frequencies (2.1 system with bass management), then +6dB is definitely the correct gain because the lowpassed L and R signals will be mixed electrically before being sent to the subwoofer, and electrical sum is +6dB.

If you don't believe me, you can easily check this using a measurement microphone and a swept tone signal, comparing L, R, and then L + R together. You will see that L+R start at +6dB in the bass frequencies, and then decreases steadily to +3dB as the frequency increases.

So, here's how you get to +4dB for LFE:
- Add +10dB for LFE so that it is 10 dB louder than any of the other channels.
- At this point, if you send this signal untouched to both L and R, you will end up with +16dB (10dB + coherent acoustical sum from the two speakers)
- So you need to compensate by attenuating by 6dB.
- Result: 10 dB - 6 dB = 4dB, or 1.5849.


Are you sure this calculator is correct? It says -3dB is 0.707946 and not 0.7071

Good question. I think the actual answer is 1/sqrt(2) (0.7071), which is -3.01dB. A difference of 0.01dB is inaudible, which makes this a moot point. Good catch, though.

[SamuriHL]

Perhaps you could tell which folder you have installed it in, and which version of the dll it is. Please?

It's in the lav folder and it's 1.1.0.8.

[bugmen0t]

This means that if you use both stereo speakers to reproduce these frequencies, they will be coherent, and so they will add up to +6dB SPL (and not +3dB - that's the mistake I made in the posts I wrote some time ago).
Is this equivalent to assume there are four channels instead of the actual two as i did in my edited post above?

[6233638]

Not quite. That's what you may think, but there's a little more to it. My previous post that you linked to is wrong, because some of my assumptions were incorrect at the time (hey, we're all learning here).

The reason why center is 3dB is because playing back a signal from two incoherent acoustical sources result in +3dB SPL. Stereo speakers are incoherent sources above bass frequencies (I'm not sure why - I think it has to do with subtle phase differences and room reflections). The most important frequencies (i.e. voice) are not bass frequencies, so stereo speakers will not reproduce them coherently. This is the reason why the ITU is using 3dB for the center channel (I think).

I have no idea why they're using 3dB for surround instead of the more intuitive 0dB. Probably because they don't want surround signals to overwhelm the front stage. In this way the 3dB number for surrounds seems much more arbitrary.

For LFE however, this is a whole other story. LFE is bass only. This means that if you use both stereo speakers to reproduce these frequencies, they will be coherent, and so they will add up to +6dB SPL (and not +3dB - that's the mistake I made in the posts I wrote some time ago). In addition, if in the end you're using a subwoofer to reproduce these frequencies (2.1 system with bass management), then +6dB is definitely the correct gain because the lowpassed L and R signals will be mixed electrically before being sent to the subwoofer, and electrical sum is +6dB.

If you don't believe me, you can easily check this using a measurement microphone and a swept tone signal, comparing L, R, and then L + R together. You will see that L+R start at +6dB in the bass frequencies, and then decreases steadily to +3dB as the frequency increases.

So, here's how you get to +4dB for LFE:
- Add +10dB for LFE so that it is 10 dB louder than any of the other channels.
- At this point, if you send this signal untouched to both L and R, you will end up with +16dB (10dB + coherent acoustical sum from the two speakers)
- So you need to compensate by attenuating by 6dB.
- Result: 10 dB - 6 dB = 4dB, or 1.5849.Well I don't know whether this is correct (I'd have to read up on speaker coherency) but I trust your judgement on that.

However, this now brings up a further question for me: how does this apply to headphones?

I don't use speakers at all these days, and it seems like headphones would either always be coherent, in which case the center channel needs to be -6dB rather than -3dB, or never coherent, which means that the LFE channel needs to be -3dB rather than -6dB.

Good question. I think the actual answer is 1/sqrt(2) (0.7071), which is -3.01dB. A difference of 0.01dB is inaudible, which makes this a moot point. Good catch, though.If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably done for some sort of clipping protection?

[SamuriHL]

To be clear, when you say it's in the LAV Folder, you have it in C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters\x86 and not C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters?


No, on my machines it's in:

c:\users\Samuri\appdata\roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\lav

:)

To be CLEAR it goes in the same dir as the LAVAudio.ax filter file.

[e-t172]

Is this equivalent to assume there are four channels instead of the actual two as i did in my edited post above?

I'm not sure I understand the question. The +10dB number for LFE has nothing to do with downmixing at all; in fact, it is applied even on full 5.1 systems. It has to do with dynamic range relative to main channels. The ITU recommendation explains this in great detail.

However, this now brings up a further question for me: how does this apply to headphones?

I don't use speakers at all these days, and it seems like headphones would either always be coherent, in which case the center channel needs to be -6dB rather than -3dB, or never coherent, which means that the LFE channel needs to be -3dB rather than -6dB.

I have no idea how headphones behave in this regard. I don't think, however, that the concept of coherence is relevant for headphones. The real question is perceived loudness: if you take a X dB signal and send it to both headphone transducers (as opposed to just one side), how is it perceived in terms of loudness? X? X+3dB? X+6dB? X+10dB? I have no idea. There's probably studies on this though, we just have to find them.

If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably done for some sort of clipping protection?

You mean for 3dB on surrounds? Perhaps it's one of the reasons, yes.

[GrandeBoma]

it turned out i was using 1.1.0.0 version apparenty too old for win8

after switching to 1.1.0.1 I obtained what I wanted

[SamuriHL]

That'd do it.

[bugmen0t]

My question was about EDIT2 of this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1611925#post1611925).
I'm not sure I understand the question. The +10dB number for LFE has nothing to do with downmixing at all;
Yes, therefore i didn't asked about that. Applying the +10dB to the LFE is just multiplying it by sqrt(10) (states a table of your link (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm)).

However when routing one channel to n others you need to compensate for loudness change by applying a 1/sqrt(n) factor (from ac3filter site). That's where the 1/sqrt(2) ~= 0.7071 comes from when downmixing the center level from e.g. 5.1 to stereo.
So for LFE it should be the sqrt(10) factor for applying +10dB and 1/sqrt(2) because of routing one channel to two, giving sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(2) = sqrt(5). However what they seem to use is sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(4) = sqrt(10)/2 ~= 1.5811 which essentially means compensating for four channels i.e. doubling the actual two.

For LFE however, this is a whole other story. LFE is bass only. This means that if you use both stereo speakers to reproduce these frequencies, they will be coherent, and so they will add up to +6dB SPL (and not +3dB - that's the mistake I made in the posts I wrote some time ago).

So here you say one needs +6dB instead of +3dB, i.e. doubling the latter. That seems to be mathematically equivalent to compensate for four channels instead of two as said above.
I guess this is because of the coherence but i don't understand why it is like that and how to compute that. Routing to one speaker (mono) doesn't need any compensation (states ITU) because of missing coherence, i guess. But e.g. routing LFE to four channels, will it need a sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(2*4) = sqrt(5)/2 factor because the speakers bass will add up pairwise? How does that work?

[MokrySedeS]

I think I found a bug in dxva2cb decoding. This file (http://www8.zippyshare.com/v/45151885/file.html) is stuttering on my gts450.
0.50.1 is the last version that works.

[nevcairiel]

The file plays perfectly for me. Smooth 50 fps (after deinterlacing), even if its only 3 seconds long.

[MokrySedeS]

Sorry, it works now... I had to reset the settings. Though it's still a mystery to me why 0.50.1 worked without a reset :confused:

[e-t172]

Yes, therefore i didn't asked about that. Applying the +10dB to the LFE is just multiplying it by sqrt(10) (states a table of your link (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm)).

However when routing one channel to n others you need to compensate for loudness change by applying a 1/sqrt(n) factor (from ac3filter site). That's where the 1/sqrt(2) ~= 0.7071 comes from when downmixing the center level from e.g. 5.1 to stereo.
So for LFE it should be the sqrt(10) factor for applying +10dB and 1/sqrt(2) because of routing one channel to two, giving sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(2) = sqrt(5). However what they seem to use is sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(4) = sqrt(10)/2 ~= 1.5811 which essentially means compensating for four channels i.e. doubling the actual two.

So here you say one needs +6dB instead of +3dB, i.e. doubling the latter. That seems to be mathematically equivalent to compensate for four channels instead of two as said above.
I guess this is because of the coherence but i don't understand why it is like that and how to compute that. Routing to one speaker (mono) doesn't need any compensation (states ITU) because of missing coherence, i guess. But e.g. routing LFE to four channels, will it need a sqrt(10)*1/sqrt(2*4) = sqrt(5)/2 factor because the speakers bass will add up pairwise? How does that work?

Either I'm not understanding you, or you're really making things more complicated that they really are. The fact that sqrt(10) = +10dB is a pure coincidence. I don't know why ac3filter uses the sqrt(2) notation instead of just saying +3dB (which is the same thing) like a sane person. Maybe that's because they're looking at it from the sound *power* perspective (as opposed to the sound *pressure*, which is not the same thing), and they're trying to equalize power instead of pressure, which is a weird way of doing it (and AFAIK invalid, because power summing is only valid for incoherent signals). So let's just forget about sqrt() notations and just use decibels to avoid confusion.

Basically, I'm postulating that in the bass range (and only in the bass range), the same signal coming from two equidistant acoustic sources in a typical room will be coherent at the listening position, meaning that they will add up to +6dB, not +3dB. You seem skeptical, and it is true that right now I only have my microphone measurements to back that up. I should probably search for some authoritative reference to put an end to the speculation.

One thing I'm 100% sure, however, is that +6dB *is* the right number if you're using a 2.1 system with bass management: indeed, in such a system bass from the two channels are summed electrically (as opposed to acoustically), and electric (voltage) sum of two identical signals definitely *is* +6dB.

[turbojet]

Considering LAV fixed a crash when moving to extended display. Could the problem of MPC-BE >1596 auto pausing when a video is opened on an extended display when LAV and madvr 85.x is used?

Changing one of those things makes it play like it should. Reporting it to madvr and mpc-be has led to dead ends.

[JMGNYC]

I'm having a odd problem. I've got a DVD rip into an .mkv via MakeMKV. It's MPEG video.

Using the latest LAV with MPC-HC and madVR it does not play using None as the Hardware Decoder but does play using Intel QuickSync (HD4000 graphics). Anything I can look at to see why this would be the case?

[sneaker_ger]

You could upload a sample for starters.

[supercoolman]

I have a problem when using LAV Splitter playing one MKV file as shown below. LAV Splitter loads both audio and play both of them at the same time... how do I select just the audio track from mka and disable audio track in the mkv file?

a.mkv (video+mp3)
a.mka (flac)

[nevcairiel]

LAV Splitter has no such feature, it is your player loading both files.

[supercoolman]

unfortunately, MPC-HC doesn't see any audio track, but I got two instance of LAV Splitter. one loads the mkv file, the other loads just the mka file. would be good to be able to disable audio in one of the LAV Splitter instance.

[namaiki]

Do you have the Audio Switcher enabled in MPC-HC? (View-> Options-> Audio Switcher)

[supercoolman]

it's disabled.

I tried another mkv file with one video stream and two audio track. MPC-HC can only see one video stream and the audio track I selected with LAV Splitter.

[CiNcH]

LAV Splitters outputs several different types for AAC, one being that one, but also an official Microsoft one (MEDIASUBTYPE_AAC). DVBViewer should be looking at all media types offered for a pin, and not only the first (which is really a special format just for LAV Audio, but needs to be the first so its actually used over the others)

You also propagate the proprietary media subtype GUID...

MEDIASUBTYPE_ADTS_FOURCC = '{53544441-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}'; //ADTS LAV Splitter
... via ppmt, when looking at the available audio tracks via 'IAMStreamSelect.Info'. This method does not provide the possibility to cycle through the media subtypes, right? So the application has to know this specific media subtype GUID in this case.

[nevcairiel]

TBH, IAMStreamSelect.Info is hardly the correct function to try to probe for a media subtype, especially because it doesn't let you provide more then one, which is a very common use-case to support different filters that expect different things.

In any case, i cannot change this without sacrificing some functionality in LAV Audio, so i will not.

[mastrboy]

Will the LAV Splitter support MKV Segment linking/Ordered chapters sometime in 2013?
It's the only feature I miss before I can uninstall the Haali splitter.

Or is this a feature that you nevcairiel will never work on, and it's up to someone else to write the code for this to be implemented?

[MokrySedeS]

@masterboy
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1609160&postcount=13700
:)

[mastrboy]

@masterboy
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1609160&postcount=13700
:)

Awesome, i tried searching this post after "segment" and "segment linking", but didn't try "ordered chapter".

Thanks... no need to reply to my other post then.

[filler56789]

Hmmm, only today :o I noticed that the option "Enable Video Stream Parsing" does not exist anymore. :confused:
Could someone please explain why?

[nevcairiel]

Hmmm, only today :o I noticed that the option "Enable Video Stream Parsing" does not exist anymore. :confused:
Could someone please explain why?

Because turning it off should never be required, or its a bug.

[dansrfe]

LAV Filters (x86) does not work with the 1CL3 builds (or at least the latest 1CL3 builds) of MPC-HC x86.

[nevcairiel]

Then don't use ICL builds. :)

If it works everywhere except in one specific build of one player, maybe you should look there and not here?

[wanezhiling]

Whats the benefit of ICL builds? Any faster?