LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[pikaczu]

It is a pity, will it be just as well as it will be the same time? I understand correctly

[mclingo]

A situation like that sounds more like a display driver bug is being triggered. Interesting that it might be triggered due to 3D bypassing acceleration; what happens with normal 1080p if you turn off HW acceleration entirely?

That, or it's triggering a bug in your TV.

Hi, I only get this with 3D, no loss off HDMI in any decoding mode with 1080p or 4k stuff.

I guess I could accept its an issue with my particular setup but i'm not convinced yet, there arent many AMD RX/4k/HDR 3D Tv owners out there so the lack of issues reported here could simply be that.

I only own one 3D tV so I cant test this, I have bypassed the receiver though and it still happens.

I also suspect its something to do with WIN10 and Full Screen Exclusive mode and how that interacts with MADVR refresh rate switching and D3D11.

[mclingo]

you could try a 3D computer game and see if the same happens.

I might look into that, my crapp RX 460 will really struggle with any 3D game

[nevcairiel]

This is all outside the scope of LAV Filters, it has no control over your video output or your drivers. So please debug your problem elsewhere. :)
As said above, the hardware acceleration code is never executed with 3D decoding, since that all goes through the Intel decoder, not the typical hardware-accelerated path.

[mclingo]

I wouldnt no where do go with this, it only affects D3D11, which forum deals with how that interacts with media players and refresh rate / resolution changing?

[nevcairiel]

All I know: Its not in this thread.

[LigH]

I would suggest a separate thread in Software players (https://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=15) if there isn't already an existing one with similar topic.

[mclingo]

I would suggest a separate thread in Software players (https://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=15) if there isn't already an existing one with similar topic.

good idea, i've posted there, I've also posted on MPC-BE thread in case this issue rings a bell with anyone there.

Cheers.

[LigH]

"Also" is "cross-posting" and not very appreciated. One thread per issue is enough.

[Grimsdyke]

@ Nev. When using D3D11 and Automatic/Native I am getting sometimes green screens in MPC-BE (+ MadVR) especially on lower resolution files !! The file keeps playing and I hear the sound.
The only way to fix this seem to be to select the GPU in LAV video decoder settings. Please let me know if you need more details.

Tested with the latest build (26) and this issue still occurs !! Is this on your radar or unfixable ??
To maybe clarify - with 'sometimes' I meant that not all files are affected but the ones that are always turn 'green'. Thx

[nevcairiel]

Issues like that which are exclusive to Native D3D11 mode you should report to madshi, if it happens only with certain files make sure to include one. madVR directly processes the textures in Native mode, so only he has access to see whats going on.

[fireattack]

I have a question about downmix mix level default parameters.

According to the previous reply from nevcairiel (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1616895&postcount=14241), the default setting should match with Rec. ITU-R BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775-3-201208-I/).
If I read it correctly, the formula seems should be something like

Lo = 1.0 * L + 0.7071 * C + 1.0 * Ls;
Ro = 1.0 * R + 0.7071 * C + 1.0 * Rs;

I.e.

Center mix level = 0.7071,
Surround mix level = 1

If that's still the case, why the current default value is

Center mix level = 0.71,
Surround mix level = 0.71

But again, that discussion was very long time ago, so something could be changed afterwards (tried to search, but can't find any).

Thanks!

[brazen1]

Can anyone help me with settings for AAC audio? I've been converting AAC 7.1 ( which only plays in stereo) to AC3 (DD surround) through FFmpeg and CMD commands using my Denon S720W. I recently discovered that KODI has a setting that will transcode to AC3 on the fly using its internal player and produces DD surround. I would like to play AAC in surround using MPC-HC/BE if possible also. Currently they only produce stereo. I am using LAV Filters with the players and have deselected all the internal filters. Is there a specific combination of settings in the player(s), LAV splitter, and LAV audio 71.0.28 that will do this without affecting other formats negatively. I want to set and forget. Using HDMI.

[sneaker_ger]

LAV should only output stereo with e.g 5.1 input if:
1.) you have activated mixing to stereo in LAV Audio or
2.) you have set Windows'/your audio driver's mixer settings to stereo

[brazen1]

Thank you for the quick reply. I have not mixed anything to stereo in LAV audio. Mixing is not enabled. I have Windows configured as 7.1 and tests good for all my speakers. However, in KODI I have always used Wasapi and configured for 7.1 which produced AAC stereo. Recently I discovered configuring KODI for 2.0 reveals a new passthrough setting - Enable DD AC3 transcoding which works. Any other suggestions?

[sneaker_ger]

I have not mixed anything to stereo in LAV audio.
Are you sure you have looked at the correct LAV instance? Start playing a file in MPC-HC, then while it plays go "Play"- >"Filters"->"LAV Audio [...]" and look again.

[brazen1]

Yes. Mixing is not enabled. I do see the status tab. It shows all the channels outputting? I selected APPLY. This made no difference either. Still stereo at AVR.

[sneaker_ger]

Are any other filters active? (Play->Filter->Copy filter list ..)

Try to search for other mixer settings in Windows/driver settings. Remember that HDMI may be running through Nvida/AMD/Intel driver settings, not your onboard Realtek or whatever.

[brazen1]

Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR
- LAV Audio Decoder
- LAV Video Decoder
- LAV Splitter Source

Yes, I use NVidia High Def Audio. I have nothing else onboard I know of and I built the HTPC. Nothing else in device manager either except the MS high def controller. Should I be using some other onboard Realtek or whatever? I never have and my audio has always been perfect, except AAC.

[sneaker_ger]

Is your sample really good? Try this one (https://mega.nz/#!MwcRGAKZ!8UqNvSCow8UwgoSKwnvmGubp-MfcG9BcR8O8YcpwgXM) to be sure.

Btw, MPC-HC also has wasapi. In Options->Playback->Output->Audio Renderer->Internal Audio Renderer. Then to enable wasapi exclusive Options->Internal Filters->Audio Renderer->Exclusive mode. It should not be necessary but you can at least test it or use as a workaround.

[brazen1]

Your DD+ (AAC) file plays in stereo too. Thank you for taking interest in trying to help me. Seems so simple yet.......

DD+ is an encoded format Windows audio properties reports fwiw.

[sneaker_ger]

Ignore the video content. The sample is AAC, not DD+.

[brazen1]

Is your sample really good? Try this one (https://mega.nz/#!MwcRGAKZ!8UqNvSCow8UwgoSKwnvmGubp-MfcG9BcR8O8YcpwgXM) to be sure.

Btw, MPC-HC also has wasapi. In Options->Playback->Output->Audio Renderer->Internal Audio Renderer.

I already tried this instead of default. Still Stereo. Put back to default.

Then to enable wasapi exclusive Options->Internal Filters->Audio Renderer->Exclusive mode. It should not be necessary but you can at least test it or use as a workaround.

Have always used this.

[sneaker_ger]

Not according to what you said earlier:
Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device

[el Filou]

Just tried a 7.1 AAC file and it plays in 7.1 with MPC-HC 1.7.15 and LAV 0.71.0, be it with ReClock, MPC-HC's own renderer, or the default system DirectSound device (after setting the audio device to 8 ch in Windows Control Panel for this last case).

Are you sure your AVR isn't setting some different mode when it's receiving 7.1 PCM? I once had an issue like this and it happened I had pressed the 'Stereo' button by mistake so the Denon was downmixing multichannel PCM to stereo. (Edit: though this should still show 7.1 input on the Denon if that was the problem)

[brazen1]

Not according to what you said earlier:

My reply did not post correctly so I see the confusion.

Btw, MPC-HC also has wasapi. In Options->Playback->Output->Audio Renderer->Internal Audio Renderer.

In the past I toggled through all these options and nothing changed including this time following your instructions just to be certain.

Then to enable wasapi exclusive Options->Internal Filters->Audio Renderer->Exclusive mode. It should not be necessary but you can at least test it or use as a workaround.

I have always had Exclusive and Allow bitstreaming checked and turning them off makes no difference for AAC.


My AVR is on AUTO. I can play all types of audio formats and it auto switches correctly, except AAC unless transcoding via KODI. The only time I ever see stereo is Windows desktop and AAC. As soon as I start a video/audio, it switches to the appropriate audio, except AAC.

I manually intervened and selected DD while the audio was playing. Then quit the video, toggled the AVR on/off and started the audio again. Stereo. Then played a DTS:X and it switched proper. So I know it isn't a maladjustment.

I'm certain AAC multi ch works for you and others. Thank you for confirming it isn't one of the components we use in common. Now I have ruled out blaming and I don't know where else to turn except NVidia high def audio driver which is probably another wild goose chase.....

Is there anything else you might suggest without derailing this thread now that we've determined LAV isn't the culprit and again I appreciate your diagnosing more than words can express.

[lvqcl]

I manually intervened and selected DD while the audio was playing. Then quit the video, toggled the AVR on/off and started the audio again. Stereo. Then played a DTS:X and it switched proper. So I know it isn't a maladjustment.

It looks like your system sends undecoded DD/DTS to your receiver (bitstreaming). But it cannot bitstream AAC, so player decodes it into multichannel WAV. Then for some reason multichannel is downmixed to stereo, and the reciever gets stereo WAV.

[el Filou]

If you go to Windows Control Panel / Sound / Playback / device Properties / Advanced, and click Test, do you hear the test tones in 7.1 ?

[brazen1]

Yes, I confirmed Windows audio properties test a few posts ago. All my speakers and my sub play test tones. I googled yesterday for hours about Denon and AAC multi ch only stereo and couldn't find anything constructive. No idea if anything is documented that Denon can't do AAC but honestly I'd be surprised if of all brands it didn't. I couldn't find anything.

[brazen1]

I don't quite understand what I just did but I did exactly this and nothing more or less and I'm positive. I think it is working! Can you confirm for me?

I just enabled WMA, WMA Pro, and WMA Lossless in LAV Audio formats. I think these are off by default and have never changed anything in here. In my W10, I disabled Windows Media Player when I built this HTPC. Perhaps this has something to do with it? So, I got to thinking maybe this is a difference from others who have no problems with AAC and why those settings were disabled? Maybe someone can confirm if they are on or off default.

I played the AAC and it didn't report stereo anymore. Now my AVR reports M InDDS. I assume this means Multichannel Dolby Digital Surround on a Denon? Yippy! I toggled the Denon off/on and tried the AAC again. It went to stereo. Bummer. Unchecked WMA, WMA Pro, and WMA Lossless in LAV and still do not have WMP installed. Played the AAC and it reported M InDDS again this time? WTF?

So I turned the Denon and my display off/on. Tried a few different titles, all different audios, and AAC continues to report M InDDS. I cold booted the entire system, which I do daily, and it survived the reboot. I know it doesn't make much sense, at least to me, but this is the result simply toggling those LAV settings on/off when WMP is uninstalled. I don't know how or why but does this sound (pardon the pun) like its straightened out now?

Now to find out how to get AAC 7.1 multi ch back from the AC3's I converted to 5.1. Anyone know commands for FFmpeg using command prompt? Oh, and thank you all for the replies. Sometimes hearing from others gets the ol' brain kicked into gear to try what I thought was exhausted.

[e-t172]

I have a question about downmix mix level default parameters.

According to the previous reply from nevcairiel (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1616895&postcount=14241), the default setting should match with Rec. ITU-R BS.775 (http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.775-3-201208-I/).
If I read it correctly, the formula seems should be something like

Lo = 1.0 * L + 0.7071 * C + 1.0 * Ls;
Ro = 1.0 * R + 0.7071 * C + 1.0 * Rs;

You didn't read BS.775 correctly. The relevant part is Annex 4.1, Table 2 (page 11 of the PDF). That's the section on downmixing. You can see in that table, on the line about downmixing to stereo (2/0), that surround channels have a coefficient of 0.7071, not 1.0.

LAV should only output stereo with e.g 5.1 input if:
1.) you have activated mixing to stereo in LAV Audio or
2.) you have set Windows'/your audio driver's mixer settings to stereo

Technically, in case (2) LAV is still outputting 5.1. It's the Windows audio engine that takes care of downmixing to stereo in that case.

[mzso]

Hello!

How does atmos decoding work these days? I'm particularly interested in properly processed audio for headphones. I guess LAV at least can decode the lossless audio.
But do I need to use dolby stuff (I heard vague mentions) in conjuction to get proper spatial audio?

[huhn]

there is no atmos decoder yet and i'm not even sure if someone works on it because you need to bitstream it to make it work and only something a like a HRTF would benefit from it.

[sneaker_ger]

Yes, I confirmed Windows audio properties test a few posts ago. All my speakers and my sub play test tones. I googled yesterday for hours about Denon and AAC multi ch only stereo and couldn't find anything constructive. No idea if anything is documented that Denon can't do AAC but honestly I'd be surprised if of all brands it didn't. I couldn't find anything.
LAV Audio doesn't do AAC bitstreaming so the AAC capabilities of your receiver should be irrelevant.

[mclingo]

I don't quite understand what I just did but I did exactly this and nothing more or less and I'm positive. I think it is working! Can you confirm for me?

I just enabled WMA, WMA Pro, and WMA Lossless in LAV Audio formats. I think these are off by default and have never changed anything in here. In my W10, I disabled Windows Media Player when I built this HTPC. Perhaps this has something to do with it? So, I got to thinking maybe this is a difference from others who have no problems with AAC and why those settings were disabled? Maybe someone can confirm if they are on or off default.

I played the AAC and it didn't report stereo anymore. Now my AVR reports M InDDS. I assume this means Multichannel Dolby Digital Surround on a Denon? Yippy! I toggled the Denon off/on and tried the AAC again. It went to stereo. Bummer. Unchecked WMA, WMA Pro, and WMA Lossless in LAV and still do not have WMP installed. Played the AAC and it reported M InDDS again this time? WTF?

So I turned the Denon and my display off/on. Tried a few different titles, all different audios, and AAC continues to report M InDDS. I cold booted the entire system, which I do daily, and it survived the reboot. I know it doesn't make much sense, at least to me, but this is the result simply toggling those LAV settings on/off when WMP is uninstalled. I don't know how or why but does this sound (pardon the pun) like its straightened out now?

Now to find out how to get AAC 7.1 multi ch back from the AC3's I converted to 5.1. Anyone know commands for FFmpeg using command prompt? Oh, and thank you all for the replies. Sometimes hearing from others gets the ol' brain kicked into gear to try what I thought was exhausted.

my sound has not been quite right with DD formats too, playing over plex sound loads better than with MPC-BE, i checked all my settings and ATMOS and DTS were all playing fine so I assumed my setup was fine and just lived with it. Preiously I found i had myt dialog turned up too high but this time it was different.

I just played that file which was posted, it was in stereo. Here is the odd thing. What I noticed was that my windows audio had defaulted to stereo, it does that sometimes with driver updateds and I hadnt noticed. I changed it back but it still played in stereo. I then played my ATMOS test and they played ok, I went back and played the clip again and it was working this time.

not sure whats going on there, I also have a Denon, seems switching to one format and back again sorted it.

[mzso]

there is no atmos decoder yet and i'm not even sure if someone works on it because you need to bitstream it to make it work and only something a like a HRTF would benefit from it.

I imagined there could be something like the dtsdecoderdll.dll that lav could load for DTS-HD decoding. Maybe some proprietary app that could apply whatever dsp is required to proper spatial audio.

[huhn]

you need to support this type of decoded audio too.
it's not impossible but i don't think we will get that anytime soon.

[brazen1]

my sound has not been quite right with DD formats too, playing over plex sound loads better than with MPC-BE, i checked all my settings and ATMOS and DTS were all playing fine so I assumed my setup was fine and just lived with it. Preiously I found i had myt dialog turned up too high but this time it was different.

I just played that file which was posted, it was in stereo. Here is the odd thing. What I noticed was that my windows audio had defaulted to stereo, it does that sometimes with driver updateds and I hadnt noticed. I changed it back but it still played in stereo. I then played my ATMOS test and they played ok, I went back and played the clip again and it was working this time.

not sure whats going on there, I also have a Denon, seems switching to one format and back again sorted it.

Yep, just when you think everything is perfect, you find out it isn't. When that file is playing proper, it plays an individual tone for all speakers in 5.1. In stereo it won't.

W10 and NVidia have had a Windows audio quirk for months. I doubt they even know it. The Windows audio properties should switch to stereo with the AVR off. This allows audio/video to open in youtube and the likes. It should switch to 5.1, 7.1 etc. when the AVR is turned on. 6 months of new drivers don't. Only old ones. I've wondered if AMD has the bug too? Maybe you can confirm? More details here and maybe reply in that thread instead of here https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=229692&pid=2721301#pid2721301

[el Filou]

Oh right you didn't mention in your previous posts that you were using HDMI standby passthrough.
Anyway, even if Windows sound config is set to stereo (voluntarily or by a bug in AVR on/off detection), an audio renderer that uses WASAPI Exclusive should be able to dynamically set the speaker output config it needs depending on the number of audio channels in the source file, at least that's what ReClock and MPC's renderer do on my system (I keep Windows sound config in stereo because otherwise I get 4 useless silent channels with 2-channel web videos).
So even with the NVIDIA/Windows bug you're describing, you should still be able to play 7.1 AAC in 7.1 with a correctly configured Exclusive renderer.

[brazen1]

Yes, when I say toggle the AVR off/on, I should say toggle the AVR into standby passthrough and On. To me it's just on and off but I suppose details are everything. My bad not clarifying that here too.
On my system, if I keep the Windows audio config set to stereo, my audio was terrible. The second I switched to 7.1, all is well. I could leave it at 7.1 but then youtube etc. would not even begin playback. It presented an error. So, I'd change to stereo and immediately youtube would play. I shouldn't have to do this manual change and never did it in the past. Rolling back my NVidia driver solved it by dynamically switching stereo and 7.1. Now it survives a toggle from AVR standby passthrough to On. It also survives a reboot which is another factor that crept in using newer drivers.

With that out of the way with since it is now functioning proper using an older driver, and the screwy fix in LAV that enabled AAC 7.1 to play in DD surround instead of stereo, I have no problems. I do not require the Exclusive renderer. I'm simply using the default for the output and the default for the audio renderer as I always did. All is well. The conversation has now switched to mclingo having similar problems. We have established NVidia's problem on one front and my own regarding WMP uninstalled which may have led to the entire AAC stereo dilemma. Not sure but it is definitely working perfect at this time. Now curious if it translates to AMD as well as that is what he uses. Have not heard back from him though.

[mclingo]

Ive never been able to set my PC to stereo and have multichannel bitstreeming, I've always used AMD cards though, didnt know this was even possible. To get around windows dropping into stereo when it feels like it I have had to export the registry component for MMDEVICES and create a batch file that runs at logon just to ensure my PC remains in surround mode all of the time.

This is a windows issue though, not LAV related.

[Aleksoid1978]

nevcairiel
Hello. Question about DXVA2/DX11 8K video - i have 1030 and it's support HEVC/VP9 up to 8k. But what's strange - DXVA2 decoder fail, your DX11 decoder fail, but Win10 "Movies & TV" playback with GPU accelerated(it's use DX11 engine for it).
Any idea ??

[nevcairiel]

I heard you need to use 64-bit for 8K to work.
In fact, just tried, works in 64-bit on my 1080Ti (doesn't work in 32-bit).

[Aleksoid1978]

I heard you need to use 64-bit for 8K to work.
In fact, just tried, works in 64-bit on my 1080Ti (doesn't work in 32-bit).
Ok - thanks.

[fireattack]

You didn't read BS.775 correctly. The relevant part is Annex 4.1, Table 2 (page 11 of the PDF). That's the section on downmixing. You can see in that table, on the line about downmixing to stereo (2/0), that surround channels have a coefficient of 0.7071, not 1.0.

Indeed. No idea why did I read such obvious thing wrong. Thanks for the reply.

[Flexy]

Hallo nevcariel,

I asked that on the Jriver support forum already but the forum seems pretty dead.
Is there a way to load LAV audio decoder *and* AC3filter (AC3filter for mixing/post processing) in MC23? (Using the custom video filters setting)

I have no problems doing this in any other app that supports DirectShow (w/ AC3filter only accepting PCM and have LAV do the decoding).
But I can only load *one* audio decoder in MC23, not load both. (If I load LAV A.D. it doesn't load AC3filter, and vice versa)

Thanks!!

[nevcairiel]

This is not the place for Media Center support, lets not start something that everyone might start abusing. Only questions directly about LAV are on-topic here.

[AngelGraves13]

Can we expect Dolby Vision support sometime soon or is it still unclear if/when that will happen.

[nevcairiel]

There are no plans to work on that right now. Its a closed format for a closed ecosystem, which would take a lot of effort to get working and maintain, so motivation is not very high.

[Leader]

Hello, nevcairiel. After the release of the release version of "LAV Filters 0.71", starting with the first nightly build "0.71.0-5", became incorrectly reproduced "HTTP Live Streaming". During playback, there are periodic jumps in the frame rate, as well as a "torn" picture ("torn" frames) resembling tearing, which occurs almost instantaneously, with the loss or loss of some of the audio data periodically, i.e. the end of words simply simply drop out, and sometimes even whole words.