LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders [Archive] - Page 204

nevcairiel

28th March 2012, 09:51

Now, when it comes to the third point (the renderer) we have a bigger problem.

The decoder can just stitch the images together and build a SBS frame, which in theory works if you switch to SBS 3D mode manually.
At least for development you don't need a renderer that way.

Eric, Nev, madshi,
does anyone of you own/use a 3D TV/projector? Do you like 3D at all?

I don't own any such hardware, and i've never tried it in a home cinema environment. The only movie i saw in 3D (in the cinema) was Avatar, but it was pretty neat.
Maybe i'll buy such a TV some time in the future. Its hard to avoid them in the new TV generations =p

Nev,
if you don't like this talk to happen in LAV Filters thread I can start a new one and hopefully you all can join.
Please do.

fagoatse

28th March 2012, 10:20

Since this thread is growing so fast I am not realy up to date with the current LAV progress.

I am already using LAV-Splitter and LAV-Audio, but I am still using Microsofts DXVA decoder for decoding h264 files with media portal on my AMD E-350.

If I also switch to LAV-Video, will there be any benefits instead of using Microsofts DXVA?

I've been using LAV Video in DXVA2(Native) mode and it works wonders, no issues so far, solid performance/resources usage ratio. Go for it.

sidi0us

28th March 2012, 10:41

Or instead of flagging the tracks with the wrong language, you could flag the second subtitle track as default instead of the first one. You can easily batch the process with mkvtoolnix (there's even a GUI for that: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163753). Then set LAV Splitter to prefer the default track, if you haven't done that already.

This batch process is exactly what I needed, :thanks:.

nx6

28th March 2012, 23:25

Or instead of flagging the tracks with the wrong language, you could flag the second subtitle track as default instead of the first one. You can easily batch the process with mkvtoolnix (there's even a GUI for that: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163753). Then set LAV Splitter to prefer the default track, if you haven't done that already.

There are also some players, like Zoom Player, that allow you to specify a certain subtitle track number as preferred instead of language.

pan66000

29th March 2012, 09:17

On ATI HD4670M, mpeg2 DXVA(copy-back and native) doesn't work. Since v0.47(I started ues LAV from 0.47)
WIN 7 SP1 32Bit
MPC-HC EVR

XadoX

29th March 2012, 09:17

I tought that my Panasonic plasma is able to show 0-255 colors but if I use 0-255 in LAV-Video the dark colors seem to flood into dark.

nevcairiel

29th March 2012, 09:59

On ATI HD4670M, mpeg2 DXVA(copy-back and native) doesn't work. Since v0.47(I started ues LAV from 0.47)
WIN 7 SP1 32Bit
MPC-HC EVR

Your card does not support mpeg2

nevcairiel

29th March 2012, 14:28

LAV Filters 0.50.1

LAV Splitter
- Fixed Stream Detection on some Blu-rays with short Logo clips before the main movie
- Fixed a crash when processing invalid/broken PGS subtitles

LAV Video
- Fixed a crash on dynamic format changes (stream change, Blu-ray clip change)

Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.50.1.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.50.1.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.50.1-x64.zip)

I decided to join madshi and use smaller increments for smaller releases, makes more sense to keep the numbers sane, and push small bugfixes out faster, i guess.

Nothing big in this version, its basically just 4 commits or so. Two crash fixes, one improvement to Blu-ray demuxing (after the faulty disc finally arrived here).

egur

29th March 2012, 14:31

do you have a working application based on this custom EVR? Can you check if there is a limitation to be used only on the primary monitor as it is with Arcsoft's TMT. Does anybody know if this is a general limitation or simply how the guys at Arcsoft did it?

Eric, Nev, madshi,
does anyone of you own/use a 3D TV/projector? Do you like 3D at all?

You can use ZoomPlayer - it will allow to setup a custom renderer.

I don't have a 3D display of any kind. I'm not a big fan of the technology and my guess is that it will go away like it did in the 50's and 80's.
It causes headaches after a prolonged use.

andyvt

29th March 2012, 14:38

I don't have a 3D display of any kind. I'm not a big fan of the technology and my guess is that it will go away like it did in the 50's and 80's.

Often it takes a couple tries to get it right. While the current implementation isn't perfect (i.e. you need glasses), 3D is a compelling, natural upgrade from HD. I think it's unlikely that 3D will slumber again, we've seen significant improvement in the technology and investment from CE and content vendors. Clearly it's not for everyone, but I'd be very surprised if we didn't see actual adoption similar to surround sound as the market matures.

It causes headaches after a prolonged use*.

So do video games* and watching 2D* :)

*In some people.

Sebastiii

29th March 2012, 17:51

Thanks Nev :)

dukey

29th March 2012, 19:44

You can use ZoomPlayer - it will allow to setup a custom renderer.

I don't have a 3D display of any kind. I'm not a big fan of the technology and my guess is that it will go away like it did in the 50's and 80's.
It causes headaches after a prolonged use.

I used to work writing stereoscopic 3d software. Written shaders for pretty much most types of outputs, including autostereoscopic displays. Displays which don't need glasses and have up to 9 views. But yeah they do cause headaches. I can't watch stereo for any length of time. The problem is the miss match between the focal length and convergence point. You are trying to make your eyes do something they were never designed to do. For short periods it is a fun novelty though.

STaRGaZeR

29th March 2012, 20:26

3D as it is now is a complete dead end IMO, but you know, they need something like this every now and then to sell more TVs and stuff.

DragonQ

29th March 2012, 20:35

I have a request: the option to add Start menu shortcuts when installing/upgrading.

It's really annoying that every time I upgrade to a new version using the installer, I have to move the "LAV Filters" Start menu sub-folder to where I want it to be. I hate Apple for doing this (among other things) but at least LAV Filters doesn't keep creating desktop shortcuts too. :p

CruNcher

30th March 2012, 14:21

3D as it is now is a complete dead end IMO, but you know, they need something like this every now and then to sell more TVs and stuff.

Cool some people aren't yet totally blinded, 3D has a use but it's not in the Consumer Space ;)

kalston

30th March 2012, 15:22

There have been a couple of serious surveys in my country (France) showing that a large majority of people prefer 2D and not just because of the higher price. They actually criticized the picture quality and lack of comfort as well (especially for people wearing glasses everyday) and they were your average joe, not even nerds or anything.

CruNcher

30th March 2012, 15:46

As i said they should have better pushed the 10 bit age slowly into Consumer Space but they decided for 3D so most probably 10 bit Consumer Hardware/Software is next ;)

nevcairiel

30th March 2012, 15:56

3D was pushed because even average joes can see the difference, and alot of them do jump onto the bandwagon, even though alot of other people don't like it.

There is very little visible advantage in 10-bit, which means very little reason for people to invest into it.
4K will be the next thing, although average joe won't be able to see the difference either.

I doubt myself that current 3D tech is very long lived, however that doesn't mean i won't try to support it, and if its just for the challenge of getting it working.

Snowknight26

30th March 2012, 17:42

http://stfcc.org/misc/lav_crash.wtv

Exception in avcodec-lav-54.dll when using the 64-bit version of the filters.

nevcairiel

30th March 2012, 18:22

Xaurus

30th March 2012, 19:06

Hi guys,

I can't get any subtitle to show. Is there a problem in the latest mpc-hc or something? I mean only embedded subtitles, not external.
I've tried fiddling with LAV splitter, using the advanced mode etc. but nothing works. In madvr I can't find any options either.

edit: nevermind, for some reason subtitles in mpc-hc was not set to enabled in the navigate menu.

mbordas

30th March 2012, 23:51

If you have problems with WTV playback, i suggest to use LAV for WTV splitting, it works better in combination with LAV decoders.
The MS WTV splitter does something really odd to the video, and i cannot figure out why it breaks.

Either use LAV + LAV, or use MS Splitter with MS Decoder, using MS Splitter with LAV Decoders is just broken for some unknown reason.

has anyone tried and/or succeeded using LAVFilters with WMC? I tried disabling everything with win7dsfiltertweaker, but it results in weird glitchy playback.

Shark007

31st March 2012, 03:19

has anyone tried and/or succeeded using LAVFilters with WMC? I tried disabling everything with win7dsfiltertweaker, but it results in weird glitchy playback.

Since Nev has no interest in supporting the Windows players, you should choose to use the Shark007 codecs (instead of installing LAV on your own), and the LAV filters will work properly in Media Center.

betaking

31st March 2012, 07:36

Since Nev has no interest in supporting the Windows players, you should choose to use the Shark007 codecs (instead of installing LAV on your own), and the LAV filters will work properly in Media Center.

TO Shark,i dont see clsid In this post to recommend the K-LITE!So，You recommend you work?This is the NEV work specifically posts, not the place to advertise your stuff！
PS：You are each time an update In addition to updating the decoder and splitter, there is nothing amazing?
PPS：You just package！ it is still on the home page, put the FFMPEG source code download link, you are funny?

Shark007

31st March 2012, 14:25

To Mr Fantasy,
the users question is specific, "has anyone tried and/or succeeded using LAVFilters with WMC?" and I responded to that question.
He goes on to state he already tried to use Klite's tool, "win7dsfiltertweaker" and further states "but it results in weird glitchy playback."

So, since I know my software does allow LAV to be used in Media Center, I suggested he try it.
It isnt advertising anything; it is offering a solution to the question posed.
I am sorry you were offended by my presentation of a working solution to his inquiry.

ney2x

31st March 2012, 15:06

TO Shark,i dont see clsid In this post to recommend the K-LITE!So，You recommend you work?This is the NEV work specifically posts, not the place to advertise your stuff！
PS：You are each time an update In addition to updating the decoder and splitter, there is nothing amazing?
PPS：You just package！ it is still on the home page, put the FFMPEG source code download link, you are funny?

^ This is a big fight :devil: Seriously, please be polite. I feel like you bashed him too much. If you visit his forum, you'll know what I'm telling you.

mbordas

31st March 2012, 16:00

Since Nev has no interest in supporting the Windows players, you should choose to use the Shark007 codecs (instead of installing LAV on your own), and the LAV filters will work properly in Media Center.

I know that there are issues with WMC, it's been discussed before. The combo of Media Browser+MPC-HC+LAV+etc is the best workaround, but not for live TV. And I've used your package before and found it to work fine, it's honestly just overkill for me. Perhaps you could let us in on what tweaks you've found to make the codec pack work? :)

Qaq

31st March 2012, 16:57

As i said they should have better pushed the 10 bit age slowly into Consumer Space but they decided for 3D so most probably 10 bit Consumer Hardware/Software is next ;)
There is very little visible advantage in 10-bit, which means very little reason for people to invest into it.
8-bit BDs with bad picture and 10-bit BDs with good picture. They could sell it.
Not sure about documental video though, it has good picture already.:)
Who cares about 4k video? People with 100m halls and projectors? What we need is 50, 60fps video with really good picture.

nevcairiel

31st March 2012, 17:00

TVs can already do 50/60 fps just fine. We were only talking about new TVs, not the media around it. Going to 50/60 fps on Blu-rays would not sell new TVs.

Just from a technical standpoint, 4K is desperately needed. A small 22" Screen has already 1080p today, heck the new 10" iPad has a higher resolution then that, still a 50" TV (or even bigger) has the same resolution?
Its a technological stand-still, which is never a good thing.

STaRGaZeR

31st March 2012, 17:29

Higher resolution, more than 8-bit samples, no chroma subsampling, higher framerates, abolition of interlacing...

So much to do and so many idiots in the industry.

e-t172

31st March 2012, 17:32

Just from a technical standpoint, 4K is desperately needed. A small 22" Screen has already 1080p today, heck the new 10" iPad has a higher resolution then that, still a 50" TV (or even bigger) has the same resolution?

AFAIK, when seating at the THX/SMPTE recommended viewing distance relative to the screen size, the human eye is pretty much unable to resolve detail past 1080p. See this discussion about viewing distance versus resolution (http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter). I suspect that's why the 1080p resolution was decided on in the first place.

Your argument about high resolution tablets and PC monitors does not take into account the fact that the typical viewing distance is not the same with these devices.

nevcairiel

31st March 2012, 17:33

AFAIK, when seating at the THX/SMPTE recommended viewing distance relative to the screen size, the human eye is unable to resolve detail past 1080p. See this discussion about viewing distance versus resolution (http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter).

Thats not the point, at all.
So we should never build better screens, ever?

kalston

31st March 2012, 20:19

Tbh I find it ridiculous to have 1080p on 22" monitor when CRTs could do better with ease. 1080p may be fine for watching films but for gaming/working we could definitely benefit from more pixels. The iPhone4's screen looks amazing because of the super high pixel density, and I reckon the new iPad does too.
4k is a welcome evolution as far as I'm concerned (even though I couldn't play games on that with my current GPU :p )

DragonQ

31st March 2012, 20:22

The Galaxy S3 is supposed to have a 1080p screen. :o

It totally depends on viewing distance as well as the size of the screen though and there are other things that should have a higher priority than moving to 4k. For example, abolishing interlacing once and for all (in the digital realm it makes no sense - 1080p/50 requires barely any more bits to encode than 1080i/25 so why not use it??) and ensuring HDTV has decent bitrates (right now they look very good but they could look excellent if they weren't so bit-starved).

nevcairiel

31st March 2012, 20:27

Thats all very different issues. You're mixing hardware (ie. your TV) with content and content providers.

Of course content has to improve as well, get rid of interlacing and improve quality overall, but that could all be done in todays hardware. Higher bitrates, less chroma subsampling, no interlacing, all possible with todays TVs.
However the hardware also has to move forward. If you don't push the hardware, the content has no reason to follow.

e-t172

31st March 2012, 22:01

So we should never build better screens, ever?

If there's no perceivable difference in the typical use case, then they're not "better screens", they're the same as far as the consumer is concerned.

IMO, pushing 4K for video is like pushing 96kHz/24bit for audio: technically it's "better", in practice it's useless and a waste of money and resources. There are far more interesting things to do, like 10 bit, getting rid of interlacing, improving contrast and color accuracy, power consumption, or even improving 3D.

Of course, I'm only talking about video here. I can clearly see the advantages of high resolution screens when using a PC for any serious work. But then again, the viewing distance is much shorter, so it makes sense.

Solace

1st April 2012, 02:38

is there any way to force intels sandy bridge GPU to do the decoding with the LAV codec? but with a dedicated card in place already. does the codec support virtu would be a better question.

Andy o

1st April 2012, 03:52

Of course content has to improve as well, get rid of interlacing and improve quality overall, but that could all be done in todays hardware. Higher bitrates, less chroma subsampling, no interlacing, all possible with todays TVs.Not with my last-gen (and "highest-rated") Kuro KRP-500, it doesn't (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20822997#post20822997). But of course, that sweet sweet denial we Kuro owners still tells me my screen is AWESOME. I do secretly wish video doesn't improve chroma subsampling any time soon though, cause I'd be screwed then. But don't tell anyone.

If there's no perceivable difference in the typical use case, then they're not "better screens", they're the same as far as the consumer is concerned.

IMO, pushing 4K for video is like pushing 96kHz/24bit for audio: technically it's "better", in practice it's useless and a waste of money and resources. There are far more interesting things to do, like 10 bit, getting rid of interlacing, improving contrast and color accuracy, power consumption, or even improving 3D.

Of course, I'm only talking about video here. I can clearly see the advantages of high resolution screens when using a PC for any serious work. But then again, the viewing distance is much shorter, so it makes sense.
I don't think it's "useless". Why should we conform to THX standards? Make higher res screens; make them bigger and/or sit closer. It's like the difference in a regular theater and a proper IMAX one.

I do think the way content is going, it's stalling in quality. I don't see much of a bright future for blu-ray, and even less another physical format, and streaming is not going to even approach its quality soon at all.

nevcairiel

1st April 2012, 06:15

Not with my last-gen (and "highest-rated") Kuro KRP-500, it doesn't (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20822997#post20822997). But of course, that sweet sweet denial we Kuro owners still tells me my screen is AWESOME. I do secretly wish video doesn't improve chroma subsampling any time soon though, cause I'd be screwed then. But don't tell anyone.

You're already screwed.
There will always be manufacturers that try to save money on the wrong ends. Most TVs do processing in 4:2:2, which is still not ideal but for movie content the difference to full 4:4:4 is far less noticeable then your 4:2:0

wanezhiling

1st April 2012, 09:34

But untill now only VP5 can really do a 4k job, so nev you wont get more feedback cuz few people own a GT520,GTX680..

On my poor GT520, LAV CUVID is too slow to do a 4k decoding..:( what about your 680?

nevcairiel

1st April 2012, 10:09

4K decoding on VP5 only gives around 35-40 fps.
So any 4k @ 24p file will work just fine, and should probably also work on the 520.

50p/60p samples will of course not work fast enough.
In real world content, even at 1080p, 50p or 60p samples are very rare, and at this time 24, 25 and 30 fps are over 90% of all content.

wanezhiling

1st April 2012, 10:19

Well, Duckstakeoff@30fps@246M works well with "EVR + CUVID" not madVR, poor gt520 was totally killed by madVR..

nevcairiel

1st April 2012, 10:19

Well of course, madVR uses more performance then the 520 has. :p

madshi

1st April 2012, 10:22

AFAIK, when seating at the THX/SMPTE recommended viewing distance relative to the screen size, the human eye is pretty much unable to resolve detail past 1080p. See this discussion about viewing distance versus resolution (http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter).
Sorry, but after reading that link, I come to different conclusions. Two points from that discussion:

(1) The author mentions that for his screen size (123" width), a human with 20/20 vision would be able to fully resolve 1080p at a viewing distance of 16 feet.
(2) For a 123" width screen, THX recommends a viewing distance of 13.7 feet.

So obviously with a 20/20 vision, at the THX recommended viewing distance you can resolve more than 1080p. Maybe not much more, but a little bit more.

Now consider that if you have more than one seating row, you will likely place them "around" the recommend viewing distance. Some will be nearer than recommended, some further away. Those nearer than recommended viewing distance will resolve even more than "a little bit more than 1080p".

Also consider that if the display resolution is smaller than what your eyes can resolve, the pixel structure may start to negatively impact the image quality. We don't want to see rectangular pixels. So IMHO the projected image should always have *higher* resolution than our eyes can resolve (see iPad and iPhone "Retina" displays). Which means that if you sit at the recommend THX distance, with a 20/20 vision, you need more than 1080p, or else the pixel structure will negatively impact the image quality. This problem could be solved with properly upscaled 2K content and a 4K projector, though.

Furthermore, the THX recommendation is for 16:9, I think. I find that with my CIH projection setup, I like to sit at the same distance for 16:9 and Cinemascope movies. But for Cinemascope movies I have to zoom in, so the resolution gets lower. Which means that for Cinemascope movies you need higher resolution.

Finally, also consider that some people have worse and others have better vision than 20/20.

Conclusion: I definitely want 4K movies (but also 10bit, no chroma subsampling and a bigger gamut). FWIW, my viewing angle is near to the THX recommendation for 16:9 movies, but my viewing angle is noticeably bigger for Cinemascope movies.