LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[nevcairiel]

Here's a huge feature request I had: Allow the ability to skip chapters based on a regex. That way, I can skip stuff like “Preview” automatically.

If something should implement that, it should be the player, not the source filter. Not only that there are technical issues with seeking from within the source filter, i just don't believe its the right thing to do.

The source should expose all data available, but leave all the decisions to the player.

[SamuriHL]

Sadly, someone is making the same argument for subtitle management. :) That the player should control the behavior of subtitles. My opinion....only if the player does it right. Cause right now, I can't do what I want with subs (emulate the behavior of blu-rays) at the player level. Maybe I just don't know how, but, I don't see a way in the subtitle options to do it. My request isn't difficult....set a sub preferred language. By default, all subs are OFF *EXCEPT* forced subs in my preferred language. When I turn subs on, I want the default track for my language. This is regardless of audio language as I will only ever use subs in english. This shouldn't be so difficult to accomplish. :( But I agree in principle...this kind of thing belongs at the player level.

[nevcairiel]

The problem with subtitles is that there is no standard interface to expose all the required information to a player so it can actually do a proper subtitle decision. LAV Splitter does offer an interface that exposes all the required data, but i have no idea if its actually being used for that. I know that ZoomPlayer uses it, but i don't know for what exactly... No idea if any other player does.

[SamuriHL]

Well, that's certainly something that we can talk to the J River folks about, cause, that would be sweet.

[andyvt]

Well, that's certainly something that we can talk to the J River folks about, cause, that would be sweet.

I agree :)

[SamuriHL]

I agree :)

I noticed. ;)

[robpdotcom]

Here's a huge feature request I had: Allow the ability to skip chapters based on a regex. That way, I can skip stuff like “Preview” automatically.


If something should implement that, it should be the player, not the source filter. Not only that there are technical issues with seeking from within the source filter, i just don't believe its the right thing to do.

The source should expose all data available, but leave all the decisions to the player.

Isn't that how ordered chapters works, by creating a playlist of chapters? So, would that also mean that support for ordered chapters should be left to the player as well?

[nevcairiel]

Skipping a chapter is a real seek, and can work on all kinds of files that have chapter information. Ordered chapters actually create a new virtual timeline, its quite different.

[robpdotcom]

Ahhh, ok. So, there's still hope that LAVSplitter may support them one day.:cool:

[Andy o]

For the life of me I can't figure out what's wrong, been at it for like an hour. Today I just realized that CUVID mode is running slow with all content. It's barely noticeable with madVR and 1080p/24 full screen, (no scaling) so it might have been happening for a while before I noticed. But, with Nvidia inspector it shows GPU usage well into the 90's which for a 460 should not be the case. My previously awesome looking 1080i/25 concert now looks like a slideshow, with madVR reporting decoding queue at 1-2/8 or something like that.

With EVR Sync, GPU usage drops, but to the 50's or so, which is still very high. And with deinterlacing, I don't get a moving picture at all.

I was using 285.27 drivers, then updated to 285.38, then reverted to 280.36 (latest non-beta), reverted to LAV CUVID 0.13, LAV Video .36, and nothing helps, it's the same. I'm on Windows 7 64-bit. Anyone has any ideas how to keep troubleshooting? I feel like I'm missing something obvious or simple here. It [/i]was[/i] working perfectly before, and I haven't done any significant changes in the past days, so it doesn't appear to be content dependent.

[ajp_anton]

Ahhh, ok. So, there's still hope that LAVSplitter may support them one day.:cool:Also hoping for editions / ordered chapters.

[nevcairiel]

Anyone has any ideas how to keep troubleshooting?

Run a memory test with memtest86, just recently seen it before.
Also make sure its not stuck in P12 performance mode or something.

[Andy o]

No, it was on P0. I already fixed it though, it wasn't memory, I think one of the power connectors was loose, but I'm not 100% sure. I just turned the PC completely off, just moved the cables around (without actually dis-/re-connecting them), made sure everything was plugged in neatly, turned it back on, and it worked. Sometimes I think voodoo rituals might work better with computers. Who needs science anyway.

[Xaurus]

nevcairiel,

I tried the Lord of the Rings extended blu ray and with a 7.1 dts hd audio track, LAV audio sends the correct PCM to reclock.
However, the input in my avr reads 2.0 PCM stereo. It seems its from the "correct" stream, but only L and R channels (no dialogue for example) can be heard.

Is 7-8 channel PCM not supported by receivers or is this a glitch somewhere?

[Andy o]

Does it only happen with 7.1 content (i.e. you get correct multichannel on your AVR with 5.1)? Are you using HDMI audio, and if so, do you have WASAPI output enabled in ReClock?

[Eliminateur]

nevcariel, does the lav video have a deband postproc option available?, or it's just a straight up decoder only?.
i ask because i'm interested on it for Hi10P x64 decode (which is broken in ffdshow and won't ever be fixed from the look of things) but i use the deband filter (on the other hand, maybe hi10p does not need that filter...).
hmm i wonder if there's a way to autoswitch between lav and ffdshow and internal mpc DXVA depending on wheter it is hi10p or 8bit and wheter it's SD or HD....

[SEt]

Hi10P should not need deband if encoder knows what he is doing. Greatly reduced banding is one of main advantages of Hi10P.

[leeperry]

I believe I read that you recently changed the behavior of the audio in the splitter when seeking? Seeking works just as fine as HMS on XP now :)

It's also killer to seek in pesky WMV files that make PotP hang...too bad its seamless parser is not based on it ^^

Does your splitter also support seamless branching and playlists in MKV?

:thanks:

[Mark_A_W]

Also hoping for editions / ordered chapters.


What are editions/ordered chapters?

(If I don't know what they are, then they can hardly be essential :sly: ....but I admit I only watch blurays.)

[SamuriHL]

What are editions/ordered chapters?

(If I don't know what they are, then they can hardly be essential :sly: ....but I admit I only watch blurays.)

Oh really? :rolleyes: :D Blu-ray has seamless branching titles which allow you to have theatrical and extended releases on the same disc, yes? Well, ordered chapters = seamless branching. So now you know, and now they are essential. LOL

[Mark_A_W]

Oh really? :rolleyes: :D Blu-ray has seamless branching titles which allow you to have theatrical and extended releases on the same disc, yes? Well, ordered chapters = seamless branching. So now you know, and now they are essential. LOL

Well why don't you call it seamless branching then?

[SamuriHL]

Well why don't you call it seamless branching then?

Cause it's not. :) Seamless branching is for blu-rays. Ordered chapters are how you implement the same thing in MKV's.

[robpdotcom]

So now you know, and now they are essential. LOL

Especially if you're like me, and you've created ordered mkv's from all of your seamless branching Blurays.

While we're on the subject.....

I don't mind using Haali for mkv's, but it does create a problem with LAVaudio - LAVaudio detects TrueHD as AC3 when Haali is used, so I still need ffdshow to decode TrueHD.

So, if LAVaudio could detect TrueHD from Haali, I could get rid of ffdshow (since I'm using LAVCUVID, I no longer need yadif, so I no longer have any other use for ffdshow)...... OR, If LAVsplitter had ordered chapter support, I could get rid of Haali and ffdshow. :D

[Midzuki]

So, if LAVaudio could detect TrueHD from Haali,

Also,

LAVaudio detects TrueHD as AC3 when Haali is used

Seems to me the actual problem is in the Haali splitter itself, and nevcairiel decided to simply "respect" :rolleyes: the flaws of Haali. Unless you manage to convince Haali to release his source-code :devil: , or convince people to stop using his overrated media splitter once and for all :p

[robpdotcom]

I didn't mean to imply that the problem is with LAV. Actually, I'm sure the reason why Haali+TrueHD+LAVAudio doesn't mix is what makes being able to use LAV for everything so appealing: Nev seems to do everything by the book, with no hacks.

[nevcairiel]

I didn't mean to imply that the problem is with LAV. Actually, I'm sure the reason why Haali+TrueHD+LAVAudio doesn't mix is what makes being able to use LAV for everything so appealing: Nev seems to do everything by the book, with no hacks.

Haali suffers from the same TrueHD problem alot of splitters do. For some reason some long time ago, THD was required to be marked as AC3, because thats the only way ffdshow would decode it. Today, there are official real mediatypes for THD and these hacks only cause problems.

I looked into auto-detecting TrueHD from AC3, but it would be overly complex.

PS: The MPC-HC splitters were fixed just recently to do it properly. :)

[Xaurus]

Does it only happen with 7.1 content (i.e. you get correct multichannel on your AVR with 5.1)? Are you using HDMI audio, and if so, do you have WASAPI output enabled in ReClock?
Yes, "multi ch in" with 5.1 content, listed as 3/2/1 in the AVR.

Yes, HDMI audio through WASAPI in Reclock.

So it seems it is only 7.1. I haven't really encountered any 7.1 sources until now.

[Aleksoid1978]

Can you make and upload a Debug version of LAVVideo ???
Thanks.

[robpdotcom]

For some reason some long time ago, THD was required to be marked as AC3, because thats the only way ffdshow would decode it.

I guess that's why it was always necessary to enable AC3 decoding in ffdshow if you wanted THD decoding?

[Mangix]

or, if lavsplitter had ordered chapter support, i could get rid of haali and ffdshow. :d

+1 :)

[nevcairiel]

I guess that's why it was always necessary to enable AC3 decoding in ffdshow if you wanted THD decoding?

I guess so.

[clsid]

CoreCodec has the source for Haali splitter. I have send a PM to BetaBoy asking if they can fix the TrueHD issue.

[ShadowVlican]

feature request:

the only thing stopping me from using LAV audio decoder is the lack of this:

http://i.imgur.com/USPEO.png

very useful for those surround AAC/FLAC files but only have older receivers (no HDMI = no surround LPCM)

unless there's another way...

[nevcairiel]

Use ReClock and let it encode to 5.1 AC3

[ShadowVlican]

Use ReClock and let it encode to 5.1 AC3
thanks for the alternative! didn't know ReClock can do that.. i'll give it a try

[mrcorbo]

feature request:

the only thing stopping me from using LAV audio decoder is the lack of this:

very useful for those surround AAC/FLAC files but only have older receivers (no HDMI = no surround LPCM)

unless there's another way...

The Reclock audio renderer and the ffdshow audio processor filter can both take take multichannel decoded audio from LAV audio and encode it to AC3.

[NanoBot]

feature request:

the only thing stopping me from using LAV audio decoder is the lack of this:

http://i.imgur.com/USPEO.png

very useful for those surround AAC/FLAC files but only have older receivers (no HDMI = no surround LPCM)
unless there's another way...


There are two possible alternatives in such a case:

If your receiver has at least one analog 5.1 input ( 6 RCA jacks ) and your soundcard / soundchip in the PC is capable of outputting 5.1 or 7.1, you may go this way. Of course, there might be a slight degradation of the sound quality when using an analog connection.

The second way is only available with very few mainboards like the one I am using in my PC: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2638#ov

The Realtek ALC889A soundchip of this mainboard has a built-in DTS hardware encoder ( encoding to DTS 5.1 1536 kbit/s ), which can be enabled oder disabled through Realteks "sound manager". But be aware of the fact that only on a few selected mainboards with this soundchip the DTS Interactive feature is really working. Due to the royality, which has to be paid when using this feature, it is only enabled by the driver if the "right" mainboard is detected. For example, the P35-DS3R from Gigabyte uses exact the same soundchip, but the DTS Interactive feature is disabled by the driver when this board is detected.

Back to topic:

At the moment, I am also forced to stick with ffdshow as my preferred audio decoder because I "need" the feature to select between different audio profiles on-the-fly ( through ffdshows tray icon ). When I am watching movies on my PC monitor or my HDTV without using my surround receiver, I need everything downmixed to 2.0. Nevertheless, when I am using the receiver for sound playback, I need spdif passthrough for standard AC3 and DTS, while I need a 6 channel analog setup for mutichannel flac sound, which is then converted to DTS 5.1 by the DTS Interactive feature of my motherboard.

Therefore I am one of those people which are looking forward to a LAV_AUDIO version which has downmix capabilitys, so that I might get rid off ffdshow completly. I also could imagine that there are a lot of people which would like to have the realtime ac3 software encoder known from ffdshow in LAV_AUDIO, even if I do not need it for myself.

C.U. NanoBot

[ajp_anton]

Feature request:
Dynamic volume, or "reduced contrast" or whatever, something that makes loud sounds quieter, and quiet sound louder.
Needed when watching a movie on a train, plane, or any place with lots of background noise.

[ShadowVlican]

The Reclock audio renderer and the ffdshow audio processor filter can both take take multichannel decoded audio from LAV audio and encode it to AC3.
thanks, this works too

There are two possible alternatives in such a case:

If your receiver has at least one analog 5.1 input ( 6 RCA jacks ) and your soundcard / soundchip in the PC is capable of outputting 5.1 or 7.1, you may go this way. Of course, there might be a slight degradation of the sound quality when using an analog connection.

The second way is only available with very few mainboards like the one I am using in my PC: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2638#ov

The Realtek ALC889A soundchip of this mainboard has a built-in DTS hardware encoder ( encoding to DTS 5.1 1536 kbit/s ), which can be enabled oder disabled through Realteks "sound manager". But be aware of the fact that only on a few selected mainboards with this soundchip the DTS Interactive feature is really working. Due to the royality, which has to be paid when using this feature, it is only enabled by the driver if the "right" mainboard is detected. For example, the P35-DS3R from Gigabyte uses exact the same soundchip, but the DTS Interactive feature is disabled by the driver when this board is detected.

Back to topic:

At the moment, I am also forced to stick with ffdshow as my preferred audio decoder because I "need" the feature to select between different audio profiles on-the-fly ( through ffdshows tray icon ). When I am watching movies on my PC monitor or my HDTV without using my surround receiver, I need everything downmixed to 2.0. Nevertheless, when I am using the receiver for sound playback, I need spdif passthrough for standard AC3 and DTS, while I need a 6 channel analog setup for mutichannel flac sound, which is then converted to DTS 5.1 by the DTS Interactive feature of my motherboard.

Therefore I am one of those people which are looking forward to a LAV_AUDIO version which has downmix capabilitys, so that I might get rid off ffdshow completly. I also could imagine that there are a lot of people which would like to have the realtime ac3 software encoder known from ffdshow in LAV_AUDIO, even if I do not need it for myself.

C.U. NanoBot
#1 is not preferred since i want to keep the signal digital, not to mention i don't have to run 6 audio cables to my receiver

#2 too bad my motherboard doesn't support dts-connect

my options are as follows:
#1 LAV audio decode w/ bitstream and ReClock w/ bitstream and AC3 multi-channel encode
#2 LAV audio decode w/ ffdshow audio processor
#3 ffdshow audio decoder

gotta save up for a new receiver with hdmi

[watchman]

Feature request:
Dynamic volume, or "reduced contrast" or whatever, something that makes loud sounds quieter, and quiet sound louder.
Needed when watching a movie on a train, plane, or any place with lots of background noise.

I like this idea. Such a feature would be awesome. I also hate when watching movie and this background noise is like 2 times louder than dialogs.

But without making any SW volume increase since it noticably degrades audio quality. Just making louder sounds quieter is the way to go.

[dann23]

I like this idea. Such a feature would be awesome. I also hate when watching movie and this background noise is like 2 times louder than dialogs.

But without making any SW volume increase since it noticably degrades audio quality. Just making louder sounds quieter is the way to go.

In windows 7 you have loudness equalization in the enhancements tab from speaker properties. Why don't use that?

[watchman]

In windows 7 you have loudness equalization in the enhancements tab from speaker properties. Why don't use that?

It's not working with Wasapi so it's pretty much useless.

I gave it a try in DirectSound mode, just to see what it's doing, and it looks like it's increasing volume of quieter sounds to match noise level of louder sounds. But it's even worse. Also overall sound level is higher. Definitely not behaviour I like (at least with Vista which I'm using).

[nevcairiel]

Again, ReClock to the rescue. Just enable the Sound Compressor.

FWIW, i will not be implementing such an option.

[robpdotcom]

CoreCodec has the source for Haali splitter. I have send a PM to BetaBoy asking if they can fix the TrueHD issue.

Hey, thanks for that.:)

[golagoda]

Yep, reclock's sound compressor works extremely well for dynamic range compression so there isn't really a need to put it into lav.

[fairchild]

Yep, reclock's sound compressor works extremely well for dynamic range compression so there isn't really a need to put it into lav.

ffdshow's audio processor filter also does a good job so that's another option.

[roytam1]

New nightly:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111019-rv34seekkeyframe-c73aa37.7z

diff:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111019-rv34seekkeyframe-c73aa37.diff

[Sebastiii]

Maybe look into ffmpegsource : http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource/
Part of haali code was in it :)
Maybe it can be used for ordered chapter too :P

[Sebastiii]

Hi,
I would like to ask for test/help, on MP forum some sample didn't work with vobsub format inside mp4 and other files, also on some BD subtitle stream was not detected.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/mp/Sample/Knight_and_Day_Extended.mp4 (vobsub)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/mp/Sample/sub-title-problem.m2ts (sub not detected)

And the last, on this sample (comes from LIFE BBC BD) i can't get sound (only in bitstream) in this sample (it was DTS-HD HRA detected by arcsoft dll and mediainfo) :
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/lav/Sample/00106_NO_Bitstream.m2ts

My AVR should decode all HD format (Harman Kardon 355) but seems not on this one.
I will try with TMT to see what happen (in bitstream ofc).
But if someone can repot if it's work for him :)
Thanks.

[Andy o]

It's not working with Wasapi so it's pretty much useless.

I gave it a try in DirectSound mode, just to see what it's doing, and it looks like it's increasing volume of quieter sounds to match noise level of louder sounds. But it's even worse. Also overall sound level is higher. Definitely not behaviour I like (at least with Vista which I'm using).

Why are you using WASAPI, though?

And also, that's usually how compressors work, including ReClock's. You may get less noise if you boost quiet sounds instead of lowering loud sounds (cause this makes you hit the analog volume higher and hiss increases).