LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders [Archive] - Page 122

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 07:39

Hi,

I've taken the plunge and bought a surround receiver. I've now moved to LAV Audio, which, works OK I think.
However, is it better to bitstream or decode everything through LAV? When I try bitstream there are several occasions I don't get any sound, particularly with DTS HD.
This is through HDMI, I'm not using S/PDIF anymore, with Nvidias latest audio driver installed. And I understand that there's really not a point using Reclock while
bitstreaming so I'm not using it right now.

There is another peculiar problem as well: I run the computer through my receiver (HDMI, as already mentioned) and with a HDMI from that to my plasma, but I also
have a computer monitor connected with DVI that goes directly to the monitor. The thing is, when I turn off the TV or receiver, the screen goes black on my computer
monitor (!). I use a Nvidia 570 GTX, and I only use 1 screen at a time (no extended desktops). This is proving to be a major problem since it requires me to have both
those other components turned on, to get a picture on my computer monitor. Puzzles me, really. I don't understand how output 2 from the 570 GTX can be
affected by the HDMI output which is output 1.

cca

10th October 2011, 08:35

Forgive me for not reading through the full thread, but what's the verdict on OC / linked chapters support? Still waiting for the ffmpeg guys to support it? No plans on implementing it yourself?

Also, do you plan on ever adding a context menu like Haali has to the LAV Splitter? These are the two main things preventing me from using LAV Splitter as my main splitter - and if LAV had these two features then life would be a great deal easier for me (and the codec pack I'm working on), since I can't automate the Haali installer at all.

hehe, an anime fan is obvious from miles away! The only ones who use linked chapters are anime fansubbers, and I have several such releases. I don't like CCCP either, but then again I don't like *any* codec packs, I install everything myself.

Anyway, LAV splitter will never be my main .mkv splitter either for the same reasons, doesn't support the full specification.

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 08:37

Anyway, LAV splitter will never be my main .mkv splitter either for the same reasons, doesn't support the full specification.

Nothing supports the full specification, because its bloated up with useless shit. :p

Andy o

10th October 2011, 09:28

However, is it better to bitstream or decode everything through LAV? When I try bitstream there are several occasions I don't get any sound, particularly with DTS HD.
This is through HDMI, I'm not using S/PDIF anymore, with Nvidias latest audio driver installed. And I understand that there's really not a point using Reclock while
bitstreaming so I'm not using it right now.
The GF100/110 cards (GTX 465 and up and 500 series equivalents) don't have HD bitstreaming. You'll have to decode everything, which btw, some people (like me) will say is better cause you can use ReClock. There's no difference audibly unless the decoder screws up the sound, which can also happen in your receiver, btw.

There is another peculiar problem as well: I run the computer through my receiver (HDMI, as already mentioned) and with a HDMI from that to my plasma, but I also
have a computer monitor connected with DVI that goes directly to the monitor. The thing is, when I turn off the TV or receiver, the screen goes black on my computer
monitor (!). I use a Nvidia 570 GTX, and I only use 1 screen at a time (no extended desktops). This is proving to be a major problem since it requires me to have both
those other components turned on, to get a picture on my computer monitor. Puzzles me, really. I don't understand how output 2 from the 570 GTX can be
affected by the HDMI output which is output 1.

Have you tried playing with the "set up multiple displays" section of the driver's control panel?

cca

10th October 2011, 09:47

Nothing supports the full specification, because its bloated up with useless shit. :p

heh, that's probably correct, but the linked chapters is not, as it is used.

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 09:50

The GF100/110 cards (GTX 465 and up and 500 series equivalents) don't have HD bitstreaming. You'll have to decode everything, which btw, some people (like me) will say is better cause you can use ReClock. There's no difference audibly unless the decoder screws up the sound, which can also happen in your receiver, btw.
Okay, I was not aware of this but this would explain a few things. Kinda surprised though, I would expect nothing less than full bitstreaming capability of a card in this pricerange.

In any case, not using bistreaming makes me able to use Reclock.
So my question is this, in order to avoid the whole HDMI issue through my receiver, what about using the "encode to AC3" feature of Reclock?
Then I should be able to pass everything through the S/PDIF output and ditch the HDMI for sound altogether. This is assuming that S/PDIF is sufficient for this.
I have only 5.1 speakers so I don't really need 7.1 and with my limited knowledge AC3 is only 640kbps right? So S/PDIF should be sufficient...

Have you tried playing with the "set up multiple displays" section of the driver's control panel?
Yes I have, without luck. I will have to find another solution.

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 09:52

Okay, I was not aware of this but this would explain a few things. Kinda surprised though, I would expect nothing less than full bitstreaming capability of a card in this pricerange.

Its a gaming card, gamers don't care about HD audio. :)

The main "problem" is that HD bitstreaming was implemented after the GF100 was released. To keep things "simple", NVIDIA didn't want to change the GF110 design (which is based on the GF100) that drastically to add that part, so it didn't go in either.

The next generation of cards will probably have it on every model.

Andy o

10th October 2011, 09:56

glith

10th October 2011, 10:04

Since the audio delay option was introduced I have no need for reclock. Getting perfect lipsync at 24p(and 50/60) while bitstreaming.

:thanks:

Andy o

10th October 2011, 10:23

That's not the kind of sync I meant. Audio delay has no bearing on it. Usually it manifests itself with dropped or repeated video frames, so most people don't really notice if they don't happen often enough.

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 10:25

Arg, no sorry it's still broken:
Sample1 (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/xenogears_orchestra/swf/soundsbgm/pv.flv) (bottom) / Sample2 (http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/mobile/sd2/movie.flv) (side)

Works fine for me using MPC-HCs FLV Splitter and LAV Video decoder.
Also works just great with LAV Splitter + LAV Video, of course. :)

Dogway

10th October 2011, 10:55

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 11:32

If you want you can use the AC3 option, but be aware that it's a lossy compression. I have nothing against lossy compression, but if you're lossy re-compressing an already lossy source, it's worse (though still questionable if it's audible, but it's less unlikely to be). So whenever possible, use a lossless source. If you have a lossy source, it's possible that you can just bitstream it if it's AC3 or DTS without recompressing, but you'll lose ReClock's ability to sync.

But, it would be ideal if you just stick with HDMI and use ReClock with the WASAPI output, and let LAV decode everything (including DTS-HD with dtsdecoder.dll).
I have a problem with WASAPI, I think only 16-bit output from Reclock works. I have no clue really what differs WASAPI from Directsound but I know that the latter more often "works" than the former. Shouldn't it be possible to select "as input" in Reclock when using WASAPI?

Its a gaming card, gamers don't care about HD audio. :)

The main "problem" is that HD bitstreaming was implemented after the GF100 was released. To keep things "simple", NVIDIA didn't want to change the GF110 design (which is based on the GF100) that drastically to add that part, so it didn't go in either.

The next generation of cards will probably have it on every model.
Gamers are just mindless beasts. :)
Seriously though, I didn't expect this. But it's not alpha and omega.

Qaq

10th October 2011, 11:49

I have a problem with WASAPI, I think only 16-bit output from Reclock works.
Try 24 padded to 32.
I have no clue really what differs WASAPI from Directsound
AFAIK, there is no such thing like Directsound in win7. There are WASAPI Shared (same thing like Directsound) and Exclusive. We're only care about Exclusive here of course :D
but I know that the latter more often "works" than the former. Shouldn't it be possible to select "as input" in Reclock when using WASAPI?
ReClock's input is LAV audio's output.

Andy o

10th October 2011, 11:51

For bit depth, don't use "as input", use 24 padded to 32. The difference between WASAPI exclusive mode and DirectSound is that DirectSound will use Windows's mixer and convert/resample to whatever it's set at (e.g. 5.1-channel, 24-bit, 96kHz, or whatever else). The practical difference is that with exclusive mode and HDMI, the driver will receive whatever format the renderer is outputting (as long as it's able to), and then output that to the receiver. What's really helpful about this is that your receiver will get the correct number of channels, like stereo for stereo content and 5.1 or whatever depending on the source. The downside of course is that the mixer is not being used, so all other sounds from Windows can't be heard.

Ideally for me using ReClock with DirectSound would be able to change number of channels automatically with "Set matching speaker configuration", but that option doesn't work anymore for all cards with protected audio path. ATI 4000 cards can do it though.

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 12:53

Try 24 padded to 32.

AFAIK, there is no such thing like Directsound in win7. There are WASAPI Shared (same thing like Directsound) and Exclusive. We're only care about Exclusive here of course :D

ReClock's input is LAV audio's output.
Possibly there isn't such a thing, but it's one of the choices in the Reclock settings where I choose the audio interface to use as output. Anyway, I've set it to WASAPI now and in devices to use I've selected the S/PDIF (I am accessing my computer remotely now since I am not at home - so I am unable to turn on my receiver to try the HDMI audio output).

With S/PDIF 24 padded to 32 doesn't work. The only thing that works is 16-bit with 2 channels.

I really want to use S/PDIF instead of HDMI though as the "turning off TV turns off my computer monitor" issue described earlier is extremely annoying. But I suspect that I may not be able to send PCM 6 channels through S/PDIF. I can't find any place to see the bandwidth required for this nor can I find the specs for what kind of PCM signals my receiver will accept.

In any case I've checked "Convert Output to Standard Channel Layouts" in LAV Audio, and selected all of the different bit formats. It's only in Reclock that I've changed the bits and where only 16-bit 2 ch. worked with WASAPI.

For bit depth, don't use "as input", use 24 padded to 32. The difference between WASAPI exclusive mode and DirectSound is that DirectSound will use Windows's mixer and convert/resample to whatever it's set at (e.g. 5.1-channel, 24-bit, 96kHz, or whatever else). The practical difference is that with exclusive mode and HDMI, the driver will receive whatever format the renderer is outputting (as long as it's able to), and then output that to the receiver. What's really helpful about this is that your receiver will get the correct number of channels, like stereo for stereo content and 5.1 or whatever depending on the source. The downside of course is that the mixer is not being used, so all other sounds from Windows can't be heard.

Ideally for me using ReClock with DirectSound would be able to change number of channels automatically with "Set matching speaker configuration", but that option doesn't work anymore for all cards with protected audio path. ATI 4000 cards can do it though.
I absolutely don't need to hear other sounds from Windows.
Thanks for the info.

Andy o

10th October 2011, 13:02

SPDIF is limited to stereo for PCM. Multichannel can only be achieved via lossy compression bitstreaming.

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 13:05

SPDIF is always limited to 2ch 16-bit PCM. If you want more channels, you need to use a AC3 encoder.

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 13:17

Excellent, thanks to both of you. So I really guess there's no other way than to stick with HDMI and try to solve that "blank computer monitor issue when TV or receiver is off", somehow.

andyvt

10th October 2011, 13:43

Excellent, thanks to both of you. So I really guess there's no other way than to stick with HDMI and try to solve that "blank computer monitor issue when TV or receiver is off", somehow.

Try StandbyHelper. I just added an assignable hotkey to detect displays as a workaround for this issue.

Thunderbolt8

10th October 2011, 13:47

SPDIF is always limited to 2ch 16-bit PCM. If you want more channels, you need to use a AC3 encoder.I am wondering why some soundcard manufactors advertise their product being able to use 24-bit 96kHz via spdif or something like that.

e.g. for asus xonar essence from their site:

S/PDIF Digital Output:
44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit, Dolby Digital

Andy o

10th October 2011, 13:52

It is possible, I've done it. Still only stereo though. Depends on the chip, of course.

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 13:52

Try StandbyHelper. I just added an assignable hotkey to detect displays as a workaround for this issue.
Thanks, I will definitely try this! :)

But what I would like to understand is why this happens - is this a driver problem, a hardware problem (HDMI), or a receiver / TV problem?

roytam1

10th October 2011, 13:54

I have problems playing this clip, its RealVideo2 + cook, any idea? If I activate MPC-HC internal RealVideo splitter I can see the video, but get no sound.
4Mb
http://www.mediafire.com/?dwhdsd1xgk7rqnq

Do you have LAV Video, LAV Audio, and LAV Splitter registered and with rv12 enabled in LAV Video?

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 13:56

LAV Splitters RealVideo output is not compatible with the MPC-HC Real Decoder. It currently only works with LAV Video and ffdshow, afaik. I may add this support at some point, but its not a pressing issue for me.
There may be another problem with Cook audio from the RealVideo splitter and LAV Audio, though.

Issue on the tracker: http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=55

nand chan

10th October 2011, 14:16

SPDIF is always limited to 2ch 16-bit PCM. If you want more channels, you need to use a AC3 encoder.

S/PDIF is actually 20 bits by default, with optional support for 24 bits. If you pass 16-bit PCM through S/PDIF, the extra 4 bits get padded to 0. It also has no defined data rate (just whatever your equipment and cables can handle) so there's no problem passing something like 96 kHz / 24 bit, or even 192 kHz through it.

Andy o

10th October 2011, 14:19

I knew about the data rate, but it's always baffled me why no multichannel is possible?

bjd

10th October 2011, 14:30

Have no problem sending 24/96 2 channel PCM via spdif with a Auzentech Meridian or onboard Realtek AL888

andyvt

10th October 2011, 14:55

But what I would like to understand is why this happens - is this a driver problem, a hardware problem (HDMI), or a receiver / TV problem?

IMO it's a driver problem because the HDMI port should recognize when the link becomes active and act accordingly.

Dogway

10th October 2011, 17:51

Do you have LAV Video, LAV Audio, and LAV Splitter registered and with rv12 enabled in LAV Video?
LAV Splitters RealVideo output is not compatible with the MPC-HC Real Decoder. It currently only works with LAV Video and ffdshow, afaik

My setup is LavSplitter->ffvideo->LavAudio-ffaudiopostprocessor
But I only could play it using the MPC-HC internal splitter+ffvideo decoder (audio had a problem tho)

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 18:05

My setup is LavSplitter->ffvideo->LavAudio-ffaudiopostprocessor
But I only could play it using the MPC-HC internal splitter+ffvideo decoder (audio had a problem tho)

If you turn on the "rv12" option in LAV Videos format options, that file plays just fine for me.
Making LAV Audio and Video compatible with the MPC-HC RealMedia splitter doesn't look easy, it supplys completely different data..

Anima123

10th October 2011, 18:33

nevcairiel, LAVSplitter does not include .rmvb? Nowadays, .rmvb is much more popular than .rm. Could you please add .rmvb to use LAVSplitter?

nevcairiel

10th October 2011, 18:35

rmvb is handled just fine, exactly the same as rm. I really don't care for the extension, its just realmedia files for me.

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 18:37

Hi,

I've found a solution for my "blank screen" problem. I'm using the DVI out with a DVI-> VGA adapter into my computer monitor.
Then the HDMI goes out to the receiver as usual. I am using the connectors on the same output instead of HDMI + output 2.

Now when I turn off the TV I still have picture on my computer monitor. :)

Also, I can confirm that 24-bit padded to 32 works great through HDMI with WASAPI and I get 6 channels. So now everything is 100% (I think).
Please see a screenshot of all settings:
screenshot of settings (http://home.halden.net/mordor/config.png)

Dogway

10th October 2011, 19:20

If you turn on the "rv12" option in LAV Videos format options, that file plays just fine for me.
Making LAV Audio and Video compatible with the MPC-HC RealMedia splitter doesn't look easy, it supplys completely different data..
That's correct, it worked no problems with lavsplitter->lavvideo->lavaudio
I guess the problem was between lavsplitter and ffdshow video not communicating correctly. It wasn't my intention to use internal splitters, it was only a sidenote.
I think it would be good if you added some tray icons for lav video and audio as ffdshow, so when you hover the mouse you can see the main information.

THX-UltraII

10th October 2011, 19:34

Can someone tell me where the function DRC is for?

SamuriHL

10th October 2011, 19:40

Isn't that the Dolby Room Correction stuff? Basically levels the noise if I'm not mistaken.

Andy o

10th October 2011, 19:55

I think it stands for dynamic range compression, and it does just that with Dolby tracks that support it.

Doh! I just saw that it clearly says "Dynamic Range Compression" in that section of the LAV control panel. So if you're actually asking what it is, it levels loud and quiet sounds so there's not a lot of dynamic range, useful when listening at low levels.

SamuriHL

10th October 2011, 20:01

Oh right, that's what it stands for, yea. But it's metadata about the levels that are supposed to be used or something like that, yea?

QBhd

10th October 2011, 20:15

@ Xaurus

IIRC, you should have all the output formats of LAV Video checked and not just YV12 alone. But then again I may be wrong, so someone else please chime in if I am indeed incorrect :)

QB

Andy o

10th October 2011, 20:20

Oh right, that's what it stands for, yea. But it's metadata about the levels that are supposed to be used or something like that, yea?

Yeah, works better than on-the-fly DRC cause it uses metadata. Unfortunately only the Dolby formats support that. Sometimes I'd like to use it, but most blu-rays nowadays are DTS.

TheShadowRunner

10th October 2011, 21:41

Works fine for me using MPC-HCs FLV Splitter and LAV Video decoder.
Also works just great with LAV Splitter + LAV Video, of course. :)

Ooohh you're right, I just updated my old (standalone) FLVSplitter to v1.5.2.345 and issue is fixed with LAV Video dec (ffdshow still fux0red).
Awesome, thank you very much again! :cool:

Edit: sorry again but it's still not completely fixed ^^;;
After checking many FLVs, I encountered problems with 2:
Sample3 (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/seiken20th/swf/movie/movie01.flv) (green line on the side) / Sample4 (http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv) (cropping issue on right side).

Xaurus

10th October 2011, 22:17

@ Xaurus

IIRC, you should have all the output formats of LAV Video checked and not just YV12 alone. But then again I may be wrong, so someone else please chime in if I am indeed incorrect :)

QB

Won't madvr accept only YV12?

In other news, my little "fix" didn't work after all... now the stupid setup is behaving the same way, when turning off the TV my computer monitor goes blank. WTH.

mkanet

10th October 2011, 22:33

I was told that LAVCUVID standalone decoder is being abandoned.

I could never make it work on two separate completely unlike machines. I'm a little apprehensive of installing LAV Video filter since I never could make LAVCUVID work. Can someone please help me understand what I'm doing wrong with LAVCUVID? I asked my question in the LAVCUVID forum thread as well. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want LAVCUVID to work. It's really been bugging me what I'm doing wrong. I posted my question in the LAVCUVID forum thread.

If I still cant get LAVCUVID to work; even with the help of people here, I am hoping someone could tell me how to completely remove every trace of LAVCUVID from my system registry (GUID references, etc). I have a perfect, brand new installation of Windows 7 64bit with all new software. Everything is a brand new installation.

Thanks for anyone that can help.

nand chan

11th October 2011, 00:02

Won't madvr accept only YV12?

madVR, at least accepts YV12, NV12 and P010 for 4:2:0 content. I have not tested P016 but it wouldn't surprise me if it accepts that as well. For 4:2:2, I don't know what it accepts but I'm guessing YUY2, UYVY and P210 as well.

It also accepts RGB32 and RGB24, and finally probably AYUV and Y410.

Mixer73

11th October 2011, 00:22

Pat357

11th October 2011, 02:57

If I still cant get LAVCUVID to work; even with the help of people here, I am hoping someone could tell me how to completely remove every trace of LAVCUVID from my system registry (GUID references, etc). I have a perfect, brand new installation of Windows 7 64bit with all new software. Everything is a brand new installation.

Thanks for anyone that can help.
What videocard do you have ? I know NVidia, but can you tell us the exact model ?
Type CPU ? Motherboard ?
What's the version of your vid-drivers ?
What happens if you "try"to use LAVCUVID ? No video (black screen), crash,.. what errors are given ?
Current LAV-video = former (LAV-video + LAVCUVID) with some performance improvements wrt the LAVCUVID part.

Can you use DXVA with any other decoders ? (like the internal one from MPC-HC or Cyberlink , ArcSoft, Coreavc, ffdshow-dxva mode or other??...).

I'm using LAV-video (with LAVCUVID built in) since a lot of versions back without any problems on my GTX-570 and I'm very pleased with the LAV-filters !!
Especially the HW VA de-interlacing is kind of unique!

QBhd

11th October 2011, 05:18

In other news, my little "fix" didn't work after all... now the stupid setup is behaving the same way, when turning off the TV my computer monitor goes blank. WTH.

Have your TV setup as an extended desktop and make sure your monitor is the primary display. I have a similar setup (minus the AVR) and this is what works for me.

QB

Xaurus

11th October 2011, 07:54

Have your TV setup as an extended desktop and make sure your monitor is the primary display. I have a similar setup (minus the AVR) and this is what works for me.

QB
What do you mean you have a similar setup, minus the AVR? Have you connnected the gfx directly into the TV?
If I do that there are no problems, I can switch between the TV and the computer monitor without problems and turning off one of them doesn't turn off the other... :)

This issue is really, really bothering me though... I have even contemplated running analogue audio out from the motherboard into the 7.1 in on the AVR and run the gfx card directly to the TV.