LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[VipZ]

That version doesn't help either, the build I did 2 days ago also had this issue. I don't recall which revision it was, but it was maybe d1a6c61.

I am not sure how to roll back changes to compile an older build in git, if you could give me a tip of this, I can do some testing to try find which one broke the sync.

This issue isn't to all DTS in MKV though it seems to be somewhat to this file only and maybe others, though 0.25 worked perfectly for this file. Decoded DTS doesn't have the sync issue with this file either.

I mostly found bitstreaming to have better sync than decoding, especially so for the build 2 days ago.

[nevcairiel]

I have no issues whatsoever, so i claim your file is broken.
With the latest version, and the A/V sync thing enabled, it'll always match against the timestamps of the incoming data, and make sure it fits.

Edit: Try with this older version; http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.25-22-g9f7db6b.zip

[VipZ]

Nope, that is also out of sync :(

[nevcairiel]

You're out of luck then, get rid of the broken file. :)
Or give me a sample to reproduce the problem. :p

I could revert some of those changes, and when bitstreaming, just trust whatever timestamps the source gives me (like 0.25 did), so if they are messed up, its clearly the files fault.
Except, the audio jitter is horrible then, and the graph of EVR-CP looks like crap because the audio timings jitter so much, so its clearly not good.

However, with A/V sync thing enabled, i really do not see how there could be sync issues, ever. It'll compare all timings to the input time of the data, and if there is a too bad drift, it'll adjust to that. Its just impossible that my calculated timings cause a 2-3 second desync. Its just not possible.
It uses the same timing the decoding would use, it reads the data, and figures out how long it would be - and then increments the clock by that. Thats a perfect match to the source timings, minus the jitter of DTS in MKV, of course.

[noee]

I am not sure how to roll back changes to compile an older build in git, if you could give me a tip of this, I can do some testing to try find which one broke the sync.


fyi, you can go to the github for LAVFsplitter, choose "History" link on the right, just above the file listing,then you can browse the commits and select a commit, then with the "Download" option you can extract that "branch" and build it.

[nevcairiel]

So i have a new theory, maybe its the ffmpeg parser that somehow causes something funny.

Please try this:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVAudio-0.25-15-g19442af.zip

This version already includes the ffmpeg parsers, but still the old timing logic.

[VipZ]

fyi, you can go to the github for LAVFsplitter, choose "History" link on the right, just above the file listing,then you can browse the commits and select a commit, then with the "Download" option you can extract that "branch" and build it.

Thanks

So i have a new theory, maybe its the ffmpeg parser that somehow causes something funny.

Please try this:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVAudio-0.25-15-g19442af.zip

This version already includes the ffmpeg parsers, but still the old timing logic.

Which build should I drop this AX in, or it doesn't matter?

[nevcairiel]

The latest one i posted earlier should work, maybe all other 0.25 builds too.

[VipZ]

The latest one i posted earlier should work, maybe all other 0.25 builds too.

Yep, LAVFilters-0.25-55-g31d0dd6 with the AX from LAVAudio-0.25-15-g19442af fixes the issue :)

[madshi]

Thats where that extra stream switching filter comes in, basically a multiplexer that takes all decoders, and forwards only the active one to the renderer.
Ah, I see, I missed that part, makes sense to me now.

But yeah, its not a viable solution, unless a player fully supports this mode.
If you support IAMStreamSelect in one of the filters involved shouldn't that make stream switching work with most players? Maybe you'll have to make LAV Splitter support IAMStreamSelect and then forward that to the switching filter, cause it might be possible that players expect IAMStreamSelect only from the splitter.

[nevcairiel]

If you support IAMStreamSelect in one of the filters involved shouldn't that make stream switching work with most players? Maybe you'll have to make LAV Splitter support IAMStreamSelect and then forward that to the switching filter, cause it might be possible that players expect IAMStreamSelect only from the splitter.

That would be possible. Maybe i'll build such a multiplexer in due time. Of course it'll look a bit weird in the graph list, say you have 6 audio tracks, you suddenly have 6 decoders in there...

I'll draft up a full concept, and post it for commenting somewhere.

Yep, LAVFilters-0.25-55-g31d0dd6 with the AX from LAVAudio-0.25-15-g19442af fixes the issue :)

I properly fixed the issue now. Thanks for the sample.
The calculation for the DTS durations was off for that file, not sure why. But i changed it, and it should work better now.
I would've kinda hoped that my A/V sync code would've taken care of this, but the timings were drifting apart so fast, that it couldn't keep up. :(

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.25-56-g41ca5a7.zip

[VipZ]

I properly fixed the issue now. Thanks for the sample.
The calculation for the DTS durations was off for that file, not sure why. But i changed it, and it should work better now.
I would've kinda hoped that my A/V sync code would've taken care of this, but the timings were drifting apart so fast, that it couldn't keep up. :(

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.25-56-g41ca5a7.zip

No problem. Thanks, its working good now :)

[madshi]

Is there any reason *not* to use LAV Audio for FLAC?
madFlac uses the official FLAC library / source code and has been working for years with perfect A/V sync, no stability problems and bit perfect output, with all kinds of channel configurations, bitdepths and samplerates. AFAIK, the LAV FLAC decoder uses a different code base (not the "official"/original one) and has not been extensively tested yet. Why would you even consider going away from a pretty much perfectly working decoder? I don't really understand that. There's nothing to gain, from what I can see. From my experience, everytime a different FLAC decoder was (accidently) activated on my PC, I ran into all kinds of playback problems. That also includes LAV Audio Decoder, although it was an older version, the problem might be fixed in the latest version.

[nevcairiel]

Yea, ffmpeg implemented their own FLAC decoder, and i'm not sure if its working perfectly.
There was a problem that caused sync issues in earlier LAV Audio versions, but that was fixed a long while ago, and everything is working good now. Since its a lossless codec, we could compare the PCM output, couldn't we?
Anyhow, i don't use FLAC that much, and i have other things to do. :)

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.26

General
- The VC2010 runtime is no longer required to be installed

LAV Splitter
- Further VC-1 in MKV improvements
- Added a separate "mpegvideo" (m2v files) option to the Format section
- Added a flag for secondary audio streams
- Changed the default DTS media type (better compatibility)

LAV Audio
- Added the ability to use the ArcSoft DTS decoder directly through LAV Audio
- Added an automatic algorithm to keep A/V sync stable
- Improved Bitstreaming with splitters other then LAV Splitter
- Improved timestamp generation when bitstreaming
- Fixed LPCM 24-bit Media Types


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.26.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.26.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.26-x64.zip)

Using the ArcSoft DTS decoder
LAV Audio can now directly interface with the ArcSoft DTS decoder. You do no longer need any complicated setup or installation.
To use the ArcSoft decoder in LAV Audio, simply get the "dtsdecoderdll.dll" from your TMT3/5 Codecs directory, and put it in the same directory as LAV Audio.
Thats all you need to do, no configuration, no hacked checkactivate.dll, no extra filter to be used.

When playing a file, you can see if its being used on the "Status" page of the LAV Audio propertys sheet. "dca" is the ffmpeg based decoder, "dts" (and any variations of that) is the ArcSoft decoder.

This will allow you full decoding of DTS-HD MA and all other variations of DTS.

One thing, though.
Do NOT ask where to get the ArcSoft decoder. If you own TMT3 or TMT5, it will be in the TMT Codecs folder. If you do not own it, you should buy it. I respect their work, and so should you!

Bitstreaming Improvements
Bitstreaming should now work much better with other splitters. Note that there is still one limitation however, TrueHD only works properly if its actually flagged as TrueHD, and the interleaved AC3 was removed. Therefor, it will most likely not work with Haali and the MPC-HC/Gabest splitters.


As always, please report any regressions or still persistent bugs directly here, with all the relevant details, and if possible a sample file.

[SamuriHL]

Just an FYI...I tested last night's code with MC16 build 160090 and Star Trek 2009 off the disc. I have LAV Audio decoding everything to PCM. I'm using ReClock at the moment for exclusive mode (plan on playing with MC16's exclusive mode at some point, but, in testing I had sync issues). Star Trek was rock solid. That's a good thing as that's always been one of the "trouble" discs for TrueHD. I'm very pleased! Building 0.26 now and will test it out at some point. Thanks, Nev!!

[Gleb Egorych]

How about that avi crash?
This testing took a bit more time because the bug appeared pretty random. Seems it is fixed :). Tested 0.25-53 and slightly 0.26.

I'll also watch if player hang bug is also fixed with those patches.

Thanks, nevcairiel!

[madshi]

Since its a lossless codec, we could compare the PCM output, couldn't we?
Yes, but you'd have to test all bitdepths, channel configurations and samplerates. Furthermore you'd have to test whether the decoder works with all containers (that support FLAC) and all splitters and produces perfect A/V sync with all splitters, including seeking etc. Then, there are also extra tricks to support non-standard channel configurations which I'd bet ffmpeg does not implement by itself. Finally, since ffmpeg is constantly being worked on, with FLAC only being one of the less important small parts of ffmpeg, there's always a chance that some future ffmpeg revision might accidently break something without being noticed. FATE tests don't cover everything.

[CruNcher]

Crazy we can do DTS-HD MA transcoding live now, i guess madshi helped you here with where to hook into ;) :D thx

[nevcairiel]

i guess madshi helped you here with where to hook into

Nope, thats all my doing. It actually wasn't that hard to figure out. Just some leg-work, testing and debugging to figure out the arguments.

[joeydrunk]

Nev, in what scenario would it be better to use arcsofts dts decoder? Anything specific, or is completely a matter of opinion on wich you prefer?

[SamuriHL]

If you want to decode dts-hd ma, it's your only option. Period. Otherwise bit stream.

[Carpo]

glad i just use DTS on my backups, seems dts-hd ma is a pain in the ass :/

[noee]

glad i just use DTS on my backups, seems dts-hd ma is a pain in the ass :/

Au contraire, it's a piece of cake, now. ;)

So smooth, like butter.

[nevcairiel]

Indeed, now its as easy as any other format, you just need a copy of TMT, and drop that dll into the LAV Audio directory. Easy! :)

[Carpo]

well it would be a pita for me to re-rip them to add dts-hd just in case in the future i get a receiver capable of decoding it :p, although it is tempting ;)

[SamuriHL]

Yea I agree...no problem at all now. Drop in a DLL, enjoy fully decoded dts-hd ma.

[SamuriHL]

Decode it on the PC...that's what we're talking about. :-)

[Carpo]

i do, but i only have a set of z5500, just wondering if there is any point

[SamuriHL]

Going forward I would just do the HD audio. Is there any point in your current setup? Probably not. But, if you do upgrade, do you want to have to go back and rerip everything? (Even just anything you rip after this point, I mean). You might as well just throw the HD audio in there and call it good.

[Carpo]

Thats what im thinking about atm, that and i mainly use linux as an htpc, will do a test rip of a bluray and see how it fairs, guessing it should be fine as it should just drop back to plain dts

[SamuriHL]

Right, DTS-HD MA contains a DTS core so even if your decoder doesn't support DTS-HD MA, it'll decode the core audio track and you'll lose nothing by keeping the HD.

[Carpo]

now all i have to decide is whether to re-rip and convert 20 blurays using crf --18 (used 2 pass before i saw the light) or just remuxing the ones i have with the audio......i think i need a stiff drink first :D

[SamuriHL]

HEHE. Good luck. :) Personally, I'm SOOOOO happy with how things are progressing with LAVF Splitter and LAV Audio. The ability to watch movie only blu-rays in my player of choice is awesome. The ability to decode HD audio in full bitdepth, full quality is awesome. Add madVR to the mix and wow...just wow. :)

[Carpo]

Yes i have to admit that since i switched to madVR+LAV CUVID+Lav Audio, my image and sound quallity have gone through the roof, now if i could just replace mpc-hc (hint hint nevcairiel) ;)

[nevcairiel]

Its fine (for now) :p

The main problem with replacing MPC-HC is that the subtitle quality would go significantly down by using ffdshow or DirectVobSub, so that would have to be replaced first, or alot of people will be unhappy. Personally, i dont usually watch with subtitles, but when i do (mostly only forced subs), i won't accept blurred and washed out subs. :p

[SamuriHL]

I already have. :D I'm using J River's MC16. Admittedly not free, but, just a joy to use. Nonetheless, I still custom build my own MPC-HC builds that don't include ANY internal filters. :D

[nevcairiel]

I have all my content neatly organized into folders, most library-like players will always try to force some stupid organization scheme of their own..
That said, i did kinda like the library of XBMC, too bad its not DirectShow (and just using it for the front-end, using MPC-HC for playback, is kinda crappy).

[SamuriHL]

I was surprised to learn that XBMC didn't use directshow, as well. MC16, once I forced it to do things *MY* way in terms of library handling, works very well for me. I agree, that I've never really been one for library players, either, but, I have it setup quite well now.

[nevcairiel]

I wasn't surprised, its a multi-platform player, sparked back on the XBox, i would've been surprised if it used DirectShow. :P
Does MC16 support scrapping series infos and automatic tagging from like thetvdb? That was really neat in XBMC, i had to rename maybe a handful of folders, and it imported my whole TV series library without a single hiccup.

[SamuriHL]

Well, I guess you do have a point there. :)

[nevcairiel]

I wish there was another player with a neat 10ft UI, which i could just point at my TV series library, tell it "these are TV series", and it would do all the magic.
I've really only seen this in XBMC. Using regex'es on folder and file names to separate stuff by show, and season. Downloading coverart by itself, tagging based on video/audio codecs used, and everything in a neatly organized interface.

I just want a menu structure like this, in a usable 10ft UI:


Movies
- Foo
- Bar
- ...
TV Series
- Show1
- Season 1
- Episode 1
- Episode 2
-...
- Season 2
-...
- Show2
-...


That can't be too hard, or?
Can i get MC16 to do that, even if i have to manually organize my data in there?

Oh well, can't have it all, i guess.

[HeadlessCow]

I wish there was another player with a neat 10ft UI, which i could just point at my TV series library, tell it "these are TV series", and it would do all the magic.
I've really only seen this in XBMC. Using regex'es on folder and file names to separate stuff by show, and season. Downloading coverart by itself, tagging based on video/audio codecs used, and everything in a neatly organized interface.

I just want a menu structure like this, in a usable 10ft UI:


Movies
- Foo
- Bar
- ...
TV Series
- Show1
- Season 1
- Episode 1
- Episode 2
-...
- Season 2
-...
- Show2
-...


That can't be too hard, or?
Can i get MC16 to do that, even if i have to manually organize my data in there?

Oh well, can't have it all, i guess.

http://www.mediabrowser.tv/ perhaps?

[SamuriHL]

That's a good question if it can do that or not. If not, we can always request it. :) I think they'd be interested in that idea. (Referring to MC16)

[nevcairiel]

The Media Browser UI is ok, but then i'm stuck with WMC playing the stuff, which is ugh. :P

[hoborg]

Try this:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.19-audio-jitter-test.zip

@nevcairiel:
Using "dtsdecoderdll.dll" will reintroduce this DTS stuttering issue :/

[nevcairiel]

Using "dtsdecoderdll.dll" will reintroduce this DTS stuttering issue :/

No it doesn't.
There are no differences in which decoder is used, unless your system is too slow to real-time decode DTS-HD MA. :p

If there is any stuttering again, first try to turn off the new A/V sync option, as DTS-HD in MKV can sometimes be so f'ed up, that it might confuse it and cause a resync.

[SamuriHL]

The Media Browser UI is ok, but then i'm stuck with WMC playing the stuff, which is ugh. :P

Yea, NO. Just NO. I gave up on 7MC. It just doesn't handle everything I want. And since MC16 allows me to play WTV files I can have 7MC record and use MC16 to play them back. Works for me! In any case, I need to play around with the library features more in MC16 as i've had to manually setup a lot of what I have.

[hoborg]

No it doesn't.

You are right. I forgot to disable MPC-HC internal decoders...
Sorry for that. It is working just fine.

[nevcairiel]

Yea, NO. Just NO. I gave up on 7MC. It just doesn't handle everything I want. And since MC16 allows me to play WTV files I can have 7MC record and use MC16 to play them back. Works for me! In any case, I need to play around with the library features more in MC16 as i've had to manually setup a lot of what I have.

If nothing else helps, there is always the ability to use XBMC with an external player configured (MPC-HC), not sure how that plays with madVR however, as XBMC is already a full screen D3D application .. maybe i should test that one day.