LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[upyzl]

+1

I can't even get Lav Splitter to work no matter what I try.

How do I disable Haali and enable Lav?

you can use Codec Tweak Tool (just 672KB, single exe)

[kennae]

Normally if you want to use other (Video/Audio) decoder than ffdshow, you have to change the merit to "Normal" in ffdshow.

Put it to normal ages ago and tried to get LAV Audio to work many times after that. And have changed video decoder many times and it always worked. So it's not that, but good to know.

[CruNcher]

This is great nev the damaged AAC sound parts (latm) work now, no need for DivX AAC anymore :)

Though its interesting it still gets this 1 scene of the broken interview sync @ the end compared to Lav Audio (that nowhere can keep sync other then when you seek directly to it) :)

But its a 100% improvement never the less (instead of getting no audio or brake ups all the time)

PS: Cool i got it sync with Lav Audio too now without seeking :D

[TheShadowRunner]

- Fixed cropping of VP6 video
Arg, no sorry it's still broken:
Sample1 (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/xenogears_orchestra/swf/soundsbgm/pv.flv) (bottom) / Sample2 (http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/mobile/sd2/movie.flv) (side)


- Performance enhancements in the CUVID decoder on some systems

Just.. awesome, thank you very much! :thanks:
I see you integrated the changes from -delay4 build into 0.37 as I have ZERO "presentation glitches" with the forsaken BBC Japan video :D

[Plutotype]

At least mine own renderer does it.

You expect user to apply the delay in all audio decoders and change everything if output is redirected to other screen? Not nice at all.

I thought your stance was "do it right regardless of existing broken code". >_>

I agree with you. Pls try contact madshi when his back on his madVR thread, maybe he can give us some hint how to create some code, where change of video output device would specifically instruct audio delay parameter at MPC-HC audio switcher or LAVaudio. I dont think it will be a easy one.

[Mark_A_W]

The Audio Delay is great but.....umm....any chance of per-channel delay? That's the type of delay that an audio decoder needs, to make up for the inadequacies of most audio drivers (they all should have delay but they don't).

Thanks

Mark

[Moti172]

Hi
I'm having a problem when decoding DTS or DD to pcm via lav-audio, it look's like the channel's order is misplace.
Why is it happening and how can I fix it?

Thanks

[terminaldawn]

I am hoping someone can help me out with a problem I am having.

I am unable to bitstream TrueHD files (mkv), all I get is static. (DTS-MA is working just fine).

I was able to stream TrueHD via FFDSHow before installing and configuring LAV.

I am using the latest version of MPC-HC, also latest version of LAV filter. I do not have haali media filters installed. I am using HDMI connected to a Denon AVR-591 and ATI HD-5850


How can I get TrueHD to work with LAV?


Thanks for any help!!!!



below are screen shots of my settings.

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/Capture.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/2.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/3.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/4.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/5.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/6.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/7.png

[SEt]

Plutotype, you don't need any complex interactions between video renderer and player/audio decoder even on display switch. It's the same 4 lines of code nevcairiel speak about, just in the video renderer. And as video renderer knows display it works on - it can compensate display delay internally without involving other parts of player.

Personally I don't understand all the fuss over madVR - it's as bad as any other widespread renderer and closed source.

[pankov]

SEt,
why don't you like madVR? What do you find "bad" in it?
Can you elaborate on the subject of audio delay - from my point of view I think it's the audio renderer that has to do the delay, not the video one. Is it at all possible that the video renderer controls the audio delay?

[terminaldawn]

I figured this out. I just had to block FFDShow.

I am hoping someone can help me out with a problem I am having.

I am unable to bitstream TrueHD files (mkv), all I get is static. (DTS-MA is working just fine).

I was able to stream TrueHD via FFDSHow before installing and configuring LAV.

I am using the latest version of MPC-HC, also latest version of LAV filter. I do not have haali media filters installed. I am using HDMI connected to a Denon AVR-591 and ATI HD-5850


How can I get TrueHD to work with LAV?


Thanks for any help!!!!



below are screen shots of my settings.

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/Capture.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/2.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/3.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/4.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/5.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/6.png

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/v0ltr0nn/Errors/truehderror/7.png

[ryrynz]

Personally I don't understand all the fuss over madVR - it's as bad as any other widespread renderer and closed source.

The fuss is over the the picture quality (color reproduction and tear free playback) enhancements over the other renderers we currently have available.

There is the odd problem here and there but it's core functions work well. I haven't seen any other developers share the same opinion of it, is it that you have experience with better renderers or that MadVR does not do something you want it to do?

[e-t172]

Personally I don't understand all the fuss over madVR - it's as bad as any other widespread renderer and closed source.

In my experience it is much easier to get smooth playback (i.e. no dropped/repeated frames) using madVR than any other renderer. Sometimes it's the only way.

[RealSnoopyDog]

Hi nev! Thanks again for this great software! :)

One short question: Do you think it's possible to demux quicktime (.mov) files without having quicktime installed? I remember, there was a splitter for this but it always required an installed quicktime library.

Ah, i forgot: when i compiled your latest version 4 days ago, i needed to copy the "libpthread-2.dll" into the LAVSplitter directory. Do you use this right now somewhere? I'm not that familar with VS2010 right now but i'm trying to learn. ;) Currently i try to investigate an issue in libbluray.dll (bad i/o buffering and endless preloading when a new mpls file is opened, which makes playback choppy/stuttering in some cases (e.g. seamless branching to next mpls)).

[roytam1]

Hi nev! Thanks again for this great software! :)

One short question: Do you think it's possible to demux quicktime (.mov) files without having quicktime installed? I remember, there was a splitter for this but it always required an installed quicktime library.

Ah, i forgot: when i compiled your latest version 4 days ago, i needed to copy the "libpthread-2.dll" into the LAVSplitter directory. Do you use this right now somewhere? I'm not that familar with VS2010 right now but i'm trying to learn. ;) Currently i try to investigate an issue in libbluray.dll (bad i/o buffering and endless preloading when a new mpls file is opened, which makes playback choppy/stuttering in some cases (e.g. seamless branching to next mpls)).

LAV Splitter should be able to split QuickTime files.

The libpthread dll is used by libavcodec (i.e. gcc/mingw issue). I use gcc from xvidvideo.ru which doesn't need libpthread dll.

[pirlouy]

Personally I don't understand all the fuss over madVR - it's as bad as any other widespread renderer and closed source.
Provocation. And the "closed source" is noting else than a troll.
If you don't want to be seen as a troll, you'll have to explain, or release a video renderer.

[STaRGaZeR]

@nev, can you update ffmpeg? An old bug got fixed yesterday (regarding softdec) and it would be nice to have it in LAV.

Thanks to Michael for looking into it BTW.

[Carpo]

Here is a strange issue, if I use Win7DSFilterTweaker_4_6 to set Lav Video as the preferred decoder for all formats, then start up Resident Evil 4 on the PC, the Ubisoft intro and all cut scenes play upside down, if I play the .mpg files directly from the Resident Evil 4 directory in MPC-HC they play fine, they also play fine if I remove Lav Video as the preferred decoder, has anyone else had this issue? I know there is a HD pack for it on certain sites, but I don't want to grab it just for the re-encoded videos as its rather large

[STaRGaZeR]

Ignore, fixed :D

[Daiz]

A bug report from a guy I know (who registered an account but haven't waited the required 5 days yet):

When I play a video after opening the options of LAV video decoder with 0.37 i get this:

Image (http://arinashi.com/img/6yqwg3mz.jpg)

I'm trying to lock it down, I'm using EVR-CP as the output renderer and when using save image in MPC-HC the image is saved properly, without all the screwed up colors.

- It doesn't appear to happen in madVR, EVR and EVR Sync
- It doesn't happen with 0.36
- It occurs even if you change no option after opening LAV video decoder properties and click cancel to close it
- It doesn't occur if you open the LAV video decoder properties while a video is playing, it must be opened when the player is not playing a video to cause the bug

I'm also using MPC-HC 1.5.3.3751 if that is relevant.

[golagoda]

If any reclock users get random glitchy audio playback after upgrading to LAVFilters 0.37, like I did and spent half an hour trying to fix (thinking it was LAV's fault) you'll have to disable reclock, or figure out whatevers causing it, I spent AGES messing with every setting imaginable but still had no luck. (Not even selecting 'restoring to default settings' in reclock worked)

Now, with that said, if anyone finds a solution please reply.

[SEt]

pankov, delay correction should be compensated where it happens. For most people it's display lag introduced by monitor, so it should be compensated in video renderer. This way if you switch to another monitor with different delay renderer can also switch compensation offset. With single monitor compensation of it in audio renderer will work as well, but it's less "correct" way. In case your audio path has delay (and actually it is) - compensation for that should be in audio renderer.

pankov, ryrynz, e-t172, for fastest and tear free playback the best solution is overlay. There are user complaints about aggressive video "improvements" often applied by drivers this way, but they can be turned off I think.

As for color reproduction and resize quality - maybe I just can't setup it correctly, but as I said it looks in madVR as bad as in other renderers:
source: http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1435/colorsrc.png
my 2x upscale: http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6519/colormy.png
madVR 2x upscale: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3204/colormadvr.png

For downscaling I like it quite sharp and the sharpest I managed from madVR Lanczos 8-tap is still not enough (and algorithmically much heavier):
source: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3130/downsrc.png
my 2x downscale: http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7536/downmy.png
madVR 2x downscale: http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5185/downmadvr.png

As for open source - it's really great for fixing small errors yourself (try to connect madVR to avisynth source script 'ImageSource("color_src.png")', image is first example) and improving abandoned projects.


pirlouy, who first shouts "troll" is definitely not troll himself. I can't care less how such people see me.

[Qaq]

for fastest and tear free playback the best solution is overlay. There are user complaints about aggressive video "improvements" often applied by drivers this way, but they can be turned off I think.
Using Protected Video Path?
MadVR's technology is described in details in its thread. If you find something wrong - just say about it. If all the renderers including madVR show the same (bad) picture with your gear... well, it's not madVR's fault I guess.

[Superb]

Dunno about the color reproduction, but madVR is definitely the smoothest renderer on my setup (when I play a 23.976fps video on my 23.976Hz 42" LED TV). All other renderers aren't smooth. I have no tearing no matter which one I use (maybe Aero is responsible for that?). I could also "feel" (see?) better quality when using it. (I usually play 720p video on a 1080p screen)

[SEt]

Qaq, not using Protected Video Path, just overlay only.
Not all renderers show me bad picture - mine renderer works perfectly fine for me (what a coincidence, duh), so I'm not interested in improving others. Is it mine fault or not you can test yourself - I provided examples.

I have feeling it's going "a bit" offtopic here. If nevcairiel minds we should move discussion about renderers to pm.

[Pat357]

Qaq, not using Protected Video Path, just overlay only.
Not all renderers show me bad picture - mine renderer works perfectly fine for me (what a coincidence, duh), so I'm not interested in improving others. Is it mine fault or not you can test yourself - I provided examples.

Is there a way to test "your" renderer so we can see the difference with our own eyes ?
What algorithms are used for up-scaling/downscaling chroma/luma ?
Can you please tell us more details about this ?

[BatKnight]

I have feeling it's going "a bit" offtopic here. If nevcairiel minds we should move discussion about renderers to pm.

Perhaps you should create a new thread about your render.
Are you willing to share/show it with us or is it only for your own use and brag?

Bat

[banzemanga]

LAV Splitter is buggy demuxing:
mpegvideo | raw MPEG video

I don't have a sample video file but found out due to an erotic game i play that uses pre-rendered raw MPEG videos for scenes. When i disable this option, the game plays smoothly; otherwise it becomes very choppy.

[Andy o]

If any reclock users get random glitchy audio playback after upgrading to LAVFilters 0.37, like I did and spent half an hour trying to fix (thinking it was LAV's fault) you'll have to disable reclock, or figure out whatevers causing it, I spent AGES messing with every setting imaginable but still had no luck. (Not even selecting 'restoring to default settings' in reclock worked)

Now, with that said, if anyone finds a solution please reply.

You're gonna have to be more specific. Your exact reclock settings and also LAV settings for instance. Did it work OK with 0.36?

[Mark_A_W]

You're gonna have to be more specific. Your exact reclock settings and also LAV settings for instance. Did it work OK with 0.36?

0.37 is fine with Reclock for me, it's not a "global" issue.

[Andy o]

Me too.

[CruNcher]

LAV Splitter is buggy demuxing:
mpegvideo | raw MPEG video

I don't have a sample video file but found out due to an erotic game i play that uses pre-rendered raw MPEG videos for scenes. When i disable this option, the game plays smoothly; otherwise it becomes very choppy.

Bikini Karate Babes ;) ? , but yeah having a black list option to disable the use of lav splitter for certain applications like it's usable in ffdshow would be a nice addition to at least be able to avoid such issues :)

[SEt]

CruNcher, ideally there should be no blacklist as it should work fine everywhere. ^_^ But in case of some very broken software that would require dirty workarounds otherwise - maybe.

Pat357, BatKnight, my renderer is not a stand-alone - it's part of application that I can't release as whole. But it's nothing important - you can do the same scaling (and much more) with avisynth, after that any renderer will do that can show image exactly and without issues like tearing (as said, overlay is great for that).

[Superb]

When using MPC-HC, Overlay disables Aero and doesn't support subtitles nor OSD. Unacceptable, to say the least.

[SEt]

MPC-HC only problem? Not hard to do such support.
Overlay kills Aero only in Vista. On Win7 you can have both.

[CruNcher]

CruNcher, ideally there should be no blacklist as it should work fine everywhere. ^_^ But in case of some very broken software that would require dirty workarounds otherwise - maybe.

Pat357, BatKnight, my renderer is not a stand-alone - it's part of application that I can't release as whole. But it's nothing important - you can do the same scaling (and much more) with avisynth, after that any renderer will do that can show image exactly and without issues like tearing (as said, overlay is great for that).

Yes though supporting all of these would be crazy their are even some funny game guys that encrypt the video plain .avi and decrypt them in their own parser, believe me Russians are especially very creative with this, so the end result would be for the user lav Splitter playing back some junk ;) :D

[Superb]

Overlay kills Aero only in Vista. On Win7 you can have both.I have 7 and it still kills it. Or is it a MPC-HC bug?

[SEt]

There is classic way to do overlay that always kills Aero and new way where they coexists. MPC-HC probably can't do it the new way.

[CruNcher]

Hehe Mainconcept heavily improved their Mpeg-2 Decoder Lav Video (libavcodec) looks really old in 4:2:2 now vs it ;)

[banzemanga]

Well no need to go as far as blacklisting (mpegvideo | raw MPEG video). But it is a good idea to take a look at it. I mean the game plays normal with Microsoft's standard raw MPEG decoder; so i don't think it is a specially encrypted form of videos.

What i am thinking is that it is rare to come by raw MPEGs so that is why the decoding mechanism is rather buggy. After all most MPEG videos are compressed.

[nevcairiel]

@nev, can you update ffmpeg? An old bug got fixed yesterday (regarding softdec) and it would be nice to have it in LAV.

Thanks to Michael for looking into it BTW.
What issue are you refering to?

LAV Splitter is buggy demuxing:
mpegvideo | raw MPEG video

I don't have a sample video file but found out due to an erotic game i play that uses pre-rendered raw MPEG videos for scenes. When i disable this option, the game plays smoothly; otherwise it becomes very choppy.
I need a sample file and a way to reproduce the problem, or i cannot do anything.

[STaRGaZeR]

What issue are you refering to?

http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=commit;h=5bebb6e64b6d8e1c9ed89ec2d14396984ba8ab5e
http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=commit;h=955113e31bb0a0d0bee127072d04153826883716

You have samples in ticket 517. I've applied it locally and the issue is indeed fixed.

[nevcairiel]

I see. I'll run a update soon'ish. I usually do it shortly after a release, so in case any new issues come in from ffmpeg, there is enough time to address them.

[Sven75]

Nev, I just noticed a strange issue with WMVs and MPGs (others may be affected as well).

When playing back the according files in Graphstudio/PowerPoint/MPC-HC the videos run perfectly fine the first time, but if they are then started again without closing the player app, it takes around 4 seconds into the file (as far as I can tell right now) until the decoding begins. I only noticed it, because someone wanted to loop a file with a duration < 4 seconds in PowerPoint and it failed completely until I simply converted it to an xvid avi.

Just 2 example files:

WMV file (http://www.mediafire.com/?pv9ev9ap215ntap)
MPG file (http://www.mediafire.com/?xgqxydr94b6wayu)

Edit:

Playing around with different decoders LAVVideo/MS WMV Decoder/ffdShow did not solve the problem, but in case of the WMV using the MS ASF reader did. So, it seems to be splitter related...

[STaRGaZeR]

I see. I'll run a update soon'ish. I usually do it shortly after a release, so in case any new issues come in from ffmpeg, there is enough time to address them.

That's a nice way of doing it, instead of spamming "Update ffmpeg" commits.

I'll report another bug soon regarding MPEG-2, here's a sample if you want to play with it. libmpeg2 plays it fine.

http://www.mediafire.com/?cye2dhgra9du6v8

[Pat357]

Is it possible to put VC-1 and AVC1 interlaced files though the LAV-video CUDA interface for HW-deinterlacing and than somehow saving the file in a raw YUV/I420 format ?
I guess it should be possible because the at one moment the deinterlaced data in present in memory, so saving should be possible.

I'd like to convert interlaced video to "progressive" using the VA HW-deinterlacing, so that the converted video can also played properly on systems without support for HW-deinterlacing.
I 've tried in Graphstudio to write/dump the YUV video output to a file, but it wasn't that easy. Seems there is no way to write the raw video-data to disk this way...:confused:
Anyone knows a way to accomplish this ?

[SEt]

Pat357, Source -> LAV decoder -> AVI Muxer -> File Writer

[nand chan]

Forgive me for not reading through the full thread, but what's the verdict on OC / linked chapters support? Still waiting for the ffmpeg guys to support it? No plans on implementing it yourself?

Also, do you plan on ever adding a context menu like Haali has to the LAV Splitter? These are the two main things preventing me from using LAV Splitter as my main splitter - and if LAV had these two features then life would be a great deal easier for me (and the codec pack I'm working on), since I can't automate the Haali installer at all.

[ryrynz]

I thought CCCP pretty much had it sewn up, why make another codec pack?

[SEt]

Indeed no need for another, all codec packs are evil.

[nand chan]

I thought CCCP pretty much had it sewn up, why make another codec pack?

I'm not going to discuss it any further in this thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162570) but I disagree with some of CCCP's decisions and choices. I also want to provide users with more flexibility.

[Xaurus]

Hi,

I've taken the plunge and bought a surround receiver. I've now moved to LAV Audio, which, works OK I think.
However, is it better to bitstream or decode everything through LAV? When I try bitstream there are several occasions I don't get any sound, particularly with DTS HD.
This is through HDMI, I'm not using S/PDIF anymore, with Nvidias latest audio driver installed. And I understand that there's really not a point using Reclock while
bitstreaming so I'm not using it right now.

There is another peculiar problem as well: I run the computer through my receiver (HDMI, as already mentioned) and with a HDMI from that to my plasma, but I also
have a computer monitor connected with DVI that goes directly to the monitor. The thing is, when I turn off the TV or receiver, the screen goes black on my computer
monitor (!). I use a Nvidia 570 GTX, and I only use 1 screen at a time (no extended desktops). This is proving to be a major problem since it requires me to have both
those other components turned on, to get a picture on my computer monitor. Puzzles me, really. I don't understand how output 2 from the 570 GTX can be
affected by the HDMI output which is output 1.

[cca]

Forgive me for not reading through the full thread, but what's the verdict on OC / linked chapters support? Still waiting for the ffmpeg guys to support it? No plans on implementing it yourself?

Also, do you plan on ever adding a context menu like Haali has to the LAV Splitter? These are the two main things preventing me from using LAV Splitter as my main splitter - and if LAV had these two features then life would be a great deal easier for me (and the codec pack I'm working on), since I can't automate the Haali installer at all.

hehe, an anime fan is obvious from miles away! The only ones who use linked chapters are anime fansubbers, and I have several such releases. I don't like CCCP either, but then again I don't like *any* codec packs, I install everything myself.

Anyway, LAV splitter will never be my main .mkv splitter either for the same reasons, doesn't support the full specification.

[nevcairiel]

Anyway, LAV splitter will never be my main .mkv splitter either for the same reasons, doesn't support the full specification.

Nothing supports the full specification, because its bloated up with useless shit. :p

[Andy o]

However, is it better to bitstream or decode everything through LAV? When I try bitstream there are several occasions I don't get any sound, particularly with DTS HD.
This is through HDMI, I'm not using S/PDIF anymore, with Nvidias latest audio driver installed. And I understand that there's really not a point using Reclock while
bitstreaming so I'm not using it right now.
The GF100/110 cards (GTX 465 and up and 500 series equivalents) don't have HD bitstreaming. You'll have to decode everything, which btw, some people (like me) will say is better cause you can use ReClock. There's no difference audibly unless the decoder screws up the sound, which can also happen in your receiver, btw.

There is another peculiar problem as well: I run the computer through my receiver (HDMI, as already mentioned) and with a HDMI from that to my plasma, but I also
have a computer monitor connected with DVI that goes directly to the monitor. The thing is, when I turn off the TV or receiver, the screen goes black on my computer
monitor (!). I use a Nvidia 570 GTX, and I only use 1 screen at a time (no extended desktops). This is proving to be a major problem since it requires me to have both
those other components turned on, to get a picture on my computer monitor. Puzzles me, really. I don't understand how output 2 from the 570 GTX can be
affected by the HDMI output which is output 1.

Have you tried playing with the "set up multiple displays" section of the driver's control panel?

[cca]

Nothing supports the full specification, because its bloated up with useless shit. :p

heh, that's probably correct, but the linked chapters is not, as it is used.

[Xaurus]

The GF100/110 cards (GTX 465 and up and 500 series equivalents) don't have HD bitstreaming. You'll have to decode everything, which btw, some people (like me) will say is better cause you can use ReClock. There's no difference audibly unless the decoder screws up the sound, which can also happen in your receiver, btw.
Okay, I was not aware of this but this would explain a few things. Kinda surprised though, I would expect nothing less than full bitstreaming capability of a card in this pricerange.

In any case, not using bistreaming makes me able to use Reclock.
So my question is this, in order to avoid the whole HDMI issue through my receiver, what about using the "encode to AC3" feature of Reclock?
Then I should be able to pass everything through the S/PDIF output and ditch the HDMI for sound altogether. This is assuming that S/PDIF is sufficient for this.
I have only 5.1 speakers so I don't really need 7.1 and with my limited knowledge AC3 is only 640kbps right? So S/PDIF should be sufficient...



Have you tried playing with the "set up multiple displays" section of the driver's control panel?
Yes I have, without luck. I will have to find another solution.

[nevcairiel]

Okay, I was not aware of this but this would explain a few things. Kinda surprised though, I would expect nothing less than full bitstreaming capability of a card in this pricerange.

Its a gaming card, gamers don't care about HD audio. :)

The main "problem" is that HD bitstreaming was implemented after the GF100 was released. To keep things "simple", NVIDIA didn't want to change the GF110 design (which is based on the GF100) that drastically to add that part, so it didn't go in either.

The next generation of cards will probably have it on every model.

[Andy o]

If you want you can use the AC3 option, but be aware that it's a lossy compression. I have nothing against lossy compression, but if you're lossy re-compressing an already lossy source, it's worse (though still questionable if it's audible, but it's less unlikely to be). So whenever possible, use a lossless source. If you have a lossy source, it's possible that you can just bitstream it if it's AC3 or DTS without recompressing, but you'll lose ReClock's ability to sync.

But, it would be ideal if you just stick with HDMI and use ReClock with the WASAPI output, and let LAV decode everything (including DTS-HD with dtsdecoder.dll).

[glith]

Since the audio delay option was introduced I have no need for reclock. Getting perfect lipsync at 24p(and 50/60) while bitstreaming.

:thanks:

[Andy o]

That's not the kind of sync I meant. Audio delay has no bearing on it. Usually it manifests itself with dropped or repeated video frames, so most people don't really notice if they don't happen often enough.

[nevcairiel]

Arg, no sorry it's still broken:
Sample1 (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/xenogears_orchestra/swf/soundsbgm/pv.flv) (bottom) / Sample2 (http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/mobile/sd2/movie.flv) (side)

Works fine for me using MPC-HCs FLV Splitter and LAV Video decoder.
Also works just great with LAV Splitter + LAV Video, of course. :)

[Dogway]

I have problems playing this clip, its RealVideo2 + cook, any idea? If I activate MPC-HC internal RealVideo splitter I can see the video, but get no sound.
4Mb
http://www.mediafire.com/?dwhdsd1xgk7rqnq

[Xaurus]

If you want you can use the AC3 option, but be aware that it's a lossy compression. I have nothing against lossy compression, but if you're lossy re-compressing an already lossy source, it's worse (though still questionable if it's audible, but it's less unlikely to be). So whenever possible, use a lossless source. If you have a lossy source, it's possible that you can just bitstream it if it's AC3 or DTS without recompressing, but you'll lose ReClock's ability to sync.

But, it would be ideal if you just stick with HDMI and use ReClock with the WASAPI output, and let LAV decode everything (including DTS-HD with dtsdecoder.dll).
I have a problem with WASAPI, I think only 16-bit output from Reclock works. I have no clue really what differs WASAPI from Directsound but I know that the latter more often "works" than the former. Shouldn't it be possible to select "as input" in Reclock when using WASAPI?


Its a gaming card, gamers don't care about HD audio. :)

The main "problem" is that HD bitstreaming was implemented after the GF100 was released. To keep things "simple", NVIDIA didn't want to change the GF110 design (which is based on the GF100) that drastically to add that part, so it didn't go in either.

The next generation of cards will probably have it on every model.
Gamers are just mindless beasts. :)
Seriously though, I didn't expect this. But it's not alpha and omega.

[Qaq]

I have a problem with WASAPI, I think only 16-bit output from Reclock works.
Try 24 padded to 32.
I have no clue really what differs WASAPI from Directsound
AFAIK, there is no such thing like Directsound in win7. There are WASAPI Shared (same thing like Directsound) and Exclusive. We're only care about Exclusive here of course :D
but I know that the latter more often "works" than the former. Shouldn't it be possible to select "as input" in Reclock when using WASAPI?
ReClock's input is LAV audio's output.

[Andy o]

For bit depth, don't use "as input", use 24 padded to 32. The difference between WASAPI exclusive mode and DirectSound is that DirectSound will use Windows's mixer and convert/resample to whatever it's set at (e.g. 5.1-channel, 24-bit, 96kHz, or whatever else). The practical difference is that with exclusive mode and HDMI, the driver will receive whatever format the renderer is outputting (as long as it's able to), and then output that to the receiver. What's really helpful about this is that your receiver will get the correct number of channels, like stereo for stereo content and 5.1 or whatever depending on the source. The downside of course is that the mixer is not being used, so all other sounds from Windows can't be heard.

Ideally for me using ReClock with DirectSound would be able to change number of channels automatically with "Set matching speaker configuration", but that option doesn't work anymore for all cards with protected audio path. ATI 4000 cards can do it though.

[Xaurus]

Try 24 padded to 32.

AFAIK, there is no such thing like Directsound in win7. There are WASAPI Shared (same thing like Directsound) and Exclusive. We're only care about Exclusive here of course :D

ReClock's input is LAV audio's output.
Possibly there isn't such a thing, but it's one of the choices in the Reclock settings where I choose the audio interface to use as output. Anyway, I've set it to WASAPI now and in devices to use I've selected the S/PDIF (I am accessing my computer remotely now since I am not at home - so I am unable to turn on my receiver to try the HDMI audio output).

With S/PDIF 24 padded to 32 doesn't work. The only thing that works is 16-bit with 2 channels.

I really want to use S/PDIF instead of HDMI though as the "turning off TV turns off my computer monitor" issue described earlier is extremely annoying. But I suspect that I may not be able to send PCM 6 channels through S/PDIF. I can't find any place to see the bandwidth required for this nor can I find the specs for what kind of PCM signals my receiver will accept.

In any case I've checked "Convert Output to Standard Channel Layouts" in LAV Audio, and selected all of the different bit formats. It's only in Reclock that I've changed the bits and where only 16-bit 2 ch. worked with WASAPI.

For bit depth, don't use "as input", use 24 padded to 32. The difference between WASAPI exclusive mode and DirectSound is that DirectSound will use Windows's mixer and convert/resample to whatever it's set at (e.g. 5.1-channel, 24-bit, 96kHz, or whatever else). The practical difference is that with exclusive mode and HDMI, the driver will receive whatever format the renderer is outputting (as long as it's able to), and then output that to the receiver. What's really helpful about this is that your receiver will get the correct number of channels, like stereo for stereo content and 5.1 or whatever depending on the source. The downside of course is that the mixer is not being used, so all other sounds from Windows can't be heard.

Ideally for me using ReClock with DirectSound would be able to change number of channels automatically with "Set matching speaker configuration", but that option doesn't work anymore for all cards with protected audio path. ATI 4000 cards can do it though.
I absolutely don't need to hear other sounds from Windows.
Thanks for the info.

[Andy o]

SPDIF is limited to stereo for PCM. Multichannel can only be achieved via lossy compression bitstreaming.

[nevcairiel]

SPDIF is always limited to 2ch 16-bit PCM. If you want more channels, you need to use a AC3 encoder.

[Xaurus]

Excellent, thanks to both of you. So I really guess there's no other way than to stick with HDMI and try to solve that "blank computer monitor issue when TV or receiver is off", somehow.

[andyvt]

Excellent, thanks to both of you. So I really guess there's no other way than to stick with HDMI and try to solve that "blank computer monitor issue when TV or receiver is off", somehow.

Try StandbyHelper. I just added an assignable hotkey to detect displays as a workaround for this issue.

[Thunderbolt8]

SPDIF is always limited to 2ch 16-bit PCM. If you want more channels, you need to use a AC3 encoder.I am wondering why some soundcard manufactors advertise their product being able to use 24-bit 96kHz via spdif or something like that.

e.g. for asus xonar essence from their site:

S/PDIF Digital Output:
44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit, Dolby Digital

[Andy o]

It is possible, I've done it. Still only stereo though. Depends on the chip, of course.

[Xaurus]

Try StandbyHelper. I just added an assignable hotkey to detect displays as a workaround for this issue.
Thanks, I will definitely try this! :)

But what I would like to understand is why this happens - is this a driver problem, a hardware problem (HDMI), or a receiver / TV problem?

[roytam1]

I have problems playing this clip, its RealVideo2 + cook, any idea? If I activate MPC-HC internal RealVideo splitter I can see the video, but get no sound.
4Mb
http://www.mediafire.com/?dwhdsd1xgk7rqnq

Do you have LAV Video, LAV Audio, and LAV Splitter registered and with rv12 enabled in LAV Video?

[nevcairiel]

LAV Splitters RealVideo output is not compatible with the MPC-HC Real Decoder. It currently only works with LAV Video and ffdshow, afaik. I may add this support at some point, but its not a pressing issue for me.
There may be another problem with Cook audio from the RealVideo splitter and LAV Audio, though.

Issue on the tracker: http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=55

[nand chan]

SPDIF is always limited to 2ch 16-bit PCM. If you want more channels, you need to use a AC3 encoder.

S/PDIF is actually 20 bits by default, with optional support for 24 bits. If you pass 16-bit PCM through S/PDIF, the extra 4 bits get padded to 0. It also has no defined data rate (just whatever your equipment and cables can handle) so there's no problem passing something like 96 kHz / 24 bit, or even 192 kHz through it.

[Andy o]

I knew about the data rate, but it's always baffled me why no multichannel is possible?

[bjd]

Have no problem sending 24/96 2 channel PCM via spdif with a Auzentech Meridian or onboard Realtek AL888

[andyvt]

But what I would like to understand is why this happens - is this a driver problem, a hardware problem (HDMI), or a receiver / TV problem?

IMO it's a driver problem because the HDMI port should recognize when the link becomes active and act accordingly.

[Dogway]

Do you have LAV Video, LAV Audio, and LAV Splitter registered and with rv12 enabled in LAV Video?
LAV Splitters RealVideo output is not compatible with the MPC-HC Real Decoder. It currently only works with LAV Video and ffdshow, afaik

My setup is LavSplitter->ffvideo->LavAudio-ffaudiopostprocessor
But I only could play it using the MPC-HC internal splitter+ffvideo decoder (audio had a problem tho)

[nevcairiel]

My setup is LavSplitter->ffvideo->LavAudio-ffaudiopostprocessor
But I only could play it using the MPC-HC internal splitter+ffvideo decoder (audio had a problem tho)

If you turn on the "rv12" option in LAV Videos format options, that file plays just fine for me.
Making LAV Audio and Video compatible with the MPC-HC RealMedia splitter doesn't look easy, it supplys completely different data..

[Anima123]

nevcairiel, LAVSplitter does not include .rmvb? Nowadays, .rmvb is much more popular than .rm. Could you please add .rmvb to use LAVSplitter?

[nevcairiel]

rmvb is handled just fine, exactly the same as rm. I really don't care for the extension, its just realmedia files for me.

[Xaurus]

Hi,

I've found a solution for my "blank screen" problem. I'm using the DVI out with a DVI-> VGA adapter into my computer monitor.
Then the HDMI goes out to the receiver as usual. I am using the connectors on the same output instead of HDMI + output 2.

Now when I turn off the TV I still have picture on my computer monitor. :)

Also, I can confirm that 24-bit padded to 32 works great through HDMI with WASAPI and I get 6 channels. So now everything is 100% (I think).
Please see a screenshot of all settings:
screenshot of settings (http://home.halden.net/mordor/config.png)

[Dogway]

If you turn on the "rv12" option in LAV Videos format options, that file plays just fine for me.
Making LAV Audio and Video compatible with the MPC-HC RealMedia splitter doesn't look easy, it supplys completely different data..
That's correct, it worked no problems with lavsplitter->lavvideo->lavaudio
I guess the problem was between lavsplitter and ffdshow video not communicating correctly. It wasn't my intention to use internal splitters, it was only a sidenote.
I think it would be good if you added some tray icons for lav video and audio as ffdshow, so when you hover the mouse you can see the main information.

[THX-UltraII]

Can someone tell me where the function DRC is for?

[SamuriHL]

Isn't that the Dolby Room Correction stuff? Basically levels the noise if I'm not mistaken.

[Andy o]

I think it stands for dynamic range compression, and it does just that with Dolby tracks that support it.

Doh! I just saw that it clearly says "Dynamic Range Compression" in that section of the LAV control panel. So if you're actually asking what it is, it levels loud and quiet sounds so there's not a lot of dynamic range, useful when listening at low levels.

[SamuriHL]

Oh right, that's what it stands for, yea. But it's metadata about the levels that are supposed to be used or something like that, yea?

[QBhd]

@ Xaurus

IIRC, you should have all the output formats of LAV Video checked and not just YV12 alone. But then again I may be wrong, so someone else please chime in if I am indeed incorrect :)

QB

[Andy o]

Oh right, that's what it stands for, yea. But it's metadata about the levels that are supposed to be used or something like that, yea?

Yeah, works better than on-the-fly DRC cause it uses metadata. Unfortunately only the Dolby formats support that. Sometimes I'd like to use it, but most blu-rays nowadays are DTS.

[TheShadowRunner]

Works fine for me using MPC-HCs FLV Splitter and LAV Video decoder.
Also works just great with LAV Splitter + LAV Video, of course. :)

Ooohh you're right, I just updated my old (standalone) FLVSplitter to v1.5.2.345 and issue is fixed with LAV Video dec (ffdshow still fux0red).
Awesome, thank you very much again! :cool:

Edit: sorry again but it's still not completely fixed ^^;;
After checking many FLVs, I encountered problems with 2:
Sample3 (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/seiken20th/swf/movie/movie01.flv) (green line on the side) / Sample4 (http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv) (cropping issue on right side).

[Xaurus]

@ Xaurus

IIRC, you should have all the output formats of LAV Video checked and not just YV12 alone. But then again I may be wrong, so someone else please chime in if I am indeed incorrect :)

QB

Won't madvr accept only YV12?

In other news, my little "fix" didn't work after all... now the stupid setup is behaving the same way, when turning off the TV my computer monitor goes blank. WTH.

[mkanet]

I was told that LAVCUVID standalone decoder is being abandoned.

I could never make it work on two separate completely unlike machines. I'm a little apprehensive of installing LAV Video filter since I never could make LAVCUVID work. Can someone please help me understand what I'm doing wrong with LAVCUVID? I asked my question in the LAVCUVID forum thread as well. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want LAVCUVID to work. It's really been bugging me what I'm doing wrong. I posted my question in the LAVCUVID forum thread.

If I still cant get LAVCUVID to work; even with the help of people here, I am hoping someone could tell me how to completely remove every trace of LAVCUVID from my system registry (GUID references, etc). I have a perfect, brand new installation of Windows 7 64bit with all new software. Everything is a brand new installation.

Thanks for anyone that can help.

[nand chan]

Won't madvr accept only YV12?

madVR, at least accepts YV12, NV12 and P010 for 4:2:0 content. I have not tested P016 but it wouldn't surprise me if it accepts that as well. For 4:2:2, I don't know what it accepts but I'm guessing YUY2, UYVY and P210 as well.

It also accepts RGB32 and RGB24, and finally probably AYUV and Y410.

[Mixer73]

If I still cant get LAVCUVID to work; even with the help of people here, I am hoping someone could tell me how to completely remove every trace of LAVCUVID from my system registry (GUID references, etc). I have a perfect, brand new installation of Windows 7 64bit with all new software. Everything is a brand new installation.

I've used LAVCUVID and the integrated LAVfilters on Vista 64 and now Win7 64 and I've not had a problem installing, so I am not sure what your issue might be. Do you have any user account or permissions issues?

[Pat357]

If I still cant get LAVCUVID to work; even with the help of people here, I am hoping someone could tell me how to completely remove every trace of LAVCUVID from my system registry (GUID references, etc). I have a perfect, brand new installation of Windows 7 64bit with all new software. Everything is a brand new installation.

Thanks for anyone that can help.
What videocard do you have ? I know NVidia, but can you tell us the exact model ?
Type CPU ? Motherboard ?
What's the version of your vid-drivers ?
What happens if you "try"to use LAVCUVID ? No video (black screen), crash,.. what errors are given ?
Current LAV-video = former (LAV-video + LAVCUVID) with some performance improvements wrt the LAVCUVID part.

Can you use DXVA with any other decoders ? (like the internal one from MPC-HC or Cyberlink , ArcSoft, Coreavc, ffdshow-dxva mode or other??...).

I'm using LAV-video (with LAVCUVID built in) since a lot of versions back without any problems on my GTX-570 and I'm very pleased with the LAV-filters !!
Especially the HW VA de-interlacing is kind of unique!

[QBhd]

In other news, my little "fix" didn't work after all... now the stupid setup is behaving the same way, when turning off the TV my computer monitor goes blank. WTH.

Have your TV setup as an extended desktop and make sure your monitor is the primary display. I have a similar setup (minus the AVR) and this is what works for me.

QB

[Xaurus]

Have your TV setup as an extended desktop and make sure your monitor is the primary display. I have a similar setup (minus the AVR) and this is what works for me.

QB
What do you mean you have a similar setup, minus the AVR? Have you connnected the gfx directly into the TV?
If I do that there are no problems, I can switch between the TV and the computer monitor without problems and turning off one of them doesn't turn off the other... :)

This issue is really, really bothering me though... I have even contemplated running analogue audio out from the motherboard into the 7.1 in on the AVR and run the gfx card directly to the TV.

[QBhd]

When you turn the AVR off it turns off your desktop, correct? If you have it setup as an extended desktop, then your "normal" primary desktop should not go blank when this happens. If you just have the one desktop that is cloned, then yes you will have a blank desktop on you monitor as well when the AVR is turned off... maybe this should be taken to another thread since this is hi-jacking nev's LAV thread.

QB

[Xaurus]

When you turn the AVR off it turns off your desktop, correct? If you have it setup as an extended desktop, then your "normal" primary desktop should not go blank when this happens. If you just have the one desktop that is cloned, then yes you will have a blank desktop on you monitor as well when the AVR is turned off... maybe this should be taken to another thread since this is hi-jacking nev's LAV thread.

QB
Yes you're right, it's off topic. I'll try your advice and use extended desktops with the computer monitor as primary. Thanks!

[mkanet]

I have no problems using any decoders on either PC (including CoreAVC(cuda) and MPC-HT (dxva) and Arcsoft.

LAVCUVID doesnt work on my Vista32 OS with Nvidia GT8500. It also doesnt work on my Windows 7 64bit PC with Nvidia GT545. I have no problems using Cuda on either PC when using all recent versions of CoreAVC 2.5.x- 3.x.

I dont have any problems using LAV Video filter with LAVCUVID integrated into it (all settings are available and configurable; (even 1080P60 using 4th generation Nvidia decoding).

There is something in LAVCUVID which prevent it from displaying it's settings... all settings are blank and wont display after reloading LAVCUVID (as if cuda is not available) and wont connect to any video renderer. I can see that the LAVCUVID settings are being saved in the registry; however, they aren;'t being displayed. No errors displayed or video since renderers such as EVR cannot connect to LAVCUVID. This is on the SAME MACHINE that can use LAV Video with highest possible settings for Nvidia Cuda. I only have either LAV Video installed or LAVCUVID standalone (not both at the same time to prevent conflicts).

So, just to be clear, what improvements were made to LAVCUVID code after it was integrated into LAV Video decoder?

I am still very curious what's so different about LAVCUVID that's causing it to not connect to any video renders (EVR, VMR, etc); but I have no problems with LAV Video using Cuda and all the highest settings.

PS: UAC it turned off (lowest setting) and I am part of the administrator's group with full permissions.

Thanks for anyone that can help.

What videocard do you have ? I know NVidia, but can you tell us the exact model ?
Type CPU ? Motherboard ?
What's the version of your vid-drivers ?
What happens if you "try"to use LAVCUVID ? No video (black screen), crash,.. what errors are given ?
Current LAV-video = former (LAV-video + LAVCUVID) with some performance improvements wrt the LAVCUVID part.

Can you use DXVA with any other decoders ? (like the internal one from MPC-HC or Cyberlink , ArcSoft, Coreavc, ffdshow-dxva mode or other??...).

I'm using LAV-video (with LAVCUVID built in) since a lot of versions back without any problems on my GTX-570 and I'm very pleased with the LAV-filters !!
Especially the HW VA de-interlacing is kind of unique!

[Mixer73]

I am still very curious what's so different about LAVCUVID that's causing it to not connect to any video renders (EVR, VMR, etc); but I have no problems with LAV Video using Cuda and all the highest settings.

Being that LAVCUVID is effectively finished, and LAVFilters is the current product, does it even matter anymore that it doesn't work?

Just use LAVFilters ;)

[Xaurus]

nevcairiel,

Is it possible to simply output DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD and other formats over 7.1 analog outputs if I use the setup in my signature with LAV audio etc.?

[nevcairiel]

For DTS-HD MA you'll need the ArcSoft dtsdecoderdll.dll, but other then that why wouldn't it be?

[Andy o]

Xaurus, find out if your receiver can apply DSP (like room correction) to multichannel analog inputs. Most AVRs (actually I can't even remember one that does) don't apply it to multichannel analog.

[Mark_A_W]

You do the room correction in the PC. Unless you spent $$$$, it will be better and free (donate).

Source -> LAV Splitter -> LAV /Audio -> ffdshow audio (mixer and per channel delay) -> Convolver Wrapper (running DRC) -> ReClock -> HDMI or Analogue out.


http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/

[Xaurus]

Xaurus, find out if your receiver can apply DSP (like room correction) to multichannel analog inputs. Most AVRs (actually I can't even remember one that does) don't apply it to multichannel analog.
Ah, I suspected as much. Then this is really not an option for me either since the Audyssey MultEQ-XT is really nice.

nev,
Thanks.

Mark,
I didn't spend much $$$$ but see above. :)

[Qaq]

As I understand, if I use dtsdecoderdll.dll, it also start to decode DTS (I always see 16int in ReClock's monitor window for DTS sources). Isn't it better do not use dtsdecoderdll.dll for DTS, cause in case of media adaptation by ReClock it does: 32fp>16int[decoding with rounding] >32fp[resampling] >16(24)int[final rounding]?
Of course, I can use ffdshow for DTS and LAV audio for DTS-HD, but I'd prefer to use LAV audio only.

[nevcairiel]

The dtsdecoderdll actually decodes lossy DTS to 24-bit integer, which is perfectly fine - at least recent versions like 1.1.0.8 do it like that, i think it may have been different in older versions.
I also don't really see a reason to use anything older then 1.1.0.8. The only format its really known to fail on is 6.0 audio (produces only 5.0), but that is one extremely rare format

[bjd]

The dtsdecoderdll actually decodes lossy DTS to 24-bit integer, which is perfectly fine - at least recent versions like 1.1.0.8 do it like that, i think it may have been different in older versions.
I also don't really see a reason to use anything older then 1.1.0.8. The only format its really known to fail on is 6.0 audio (produces only 5.0), but that is one extremely rare format

I would second that, the other thing to consider about 32fp DTS decoders like the ffMpeg one is that they are not reference decoders and there can be minute audible differences at high frequency extremes. 24bit PCM output of DTS from the reference Arcsoft decoder is as good as it gets.

[nevcairiel]

Re: Video Post Processing

There have been some discussions before about video post-processing, especially where it should be done (in decoder or separate filter). In principle i agree that tasks should be separated, however in reality thats a real challenge in the current DirectShow eco-system.

Here is what i've been pondering:

- "Soon" i will implement software deinterlacing directly in the LAV Video decoder, but no other post-processing.
- "Later" i will create a LAV Video Processor which will add all other post-processing operations. At this point, i might also remove deinterlacing from the video decoder (this is yet to be determined).

IMHO, this offers the best compromise. For one, people that only use ffdshow because of deinterlacing will be able to remove it from their graph soon. But its not meant to be a permanent solution - in the future, there will be a new post-processor which offers deinterlacing as well as other post-processing tasks (possibly in a modular design for easy extensibility).

[mkanet]

Nev,

You might have noticed the issue I mentioned about LAVCUVID. For some reason, it wont connect to any video renderer. Also, when I go into it's prop page, none of the setting have options selected, they are all blank. If I manually add these settings, they save to the registry; however, when I open the prop page again none of the settings have options selected (as before).

I just tried LAV Audio for the first time (after I put the latest official dtsdecoderdll.dll in the x86 folder and registered the filter). Guess what? LAV Audio does something similar.. no audio renderer wants to connect to it.

The good news is LAV Video DOES WORK. What is different about it than LAVCUVID and LAV Audio?

I'm trying to find out what's different about the LAV CUVID standalone & LAV Audio filters than any other directshow filter. I can use every single directshow filter available (that I've tried)... MPC-H audio and video filters, coreavc, Arcsoft, LAV Video even, etc. For some odd reason just the LAV CUVID/LAV Audio dont want to connect to their respective renderers. I'm trying to figure out what I have on my PC's that cause this to happen. I can reproduce this on both my WinVista 32bit PC with a (Nvidia GT8500 and Creative Labs Audigy) and my Win7 64bit (Nvidia GT545 and Creative Labs Xifi).

Is there a way to send a log/debug to show you where it's failing? I have tried and tried, but just cant get

[SamuriHL]

Sounds like a solid plan, Nev. Looking forward to "soon". :D

[naoan]

Would you implement avisynth filter on your video processor?

[hoborg]

Sounds good.
Here is my LAVF "wish" list (to remove FFDshow from my HTPC) :)

Splitter (?):
-add next audio/subtitles stream keyboard shortcuts - to be able to change them by remote controller undepended on application

Audio:
-downmix to stereo (for HDMI - TV connection)

Video:
-resize + subtitles (yes, i known...)
-DVD support (to be able to use LAV video decoder for DVD)

[nevcairiel]

Would you implement avisynth filter on your video processor?

I haven't really decided anything about video processor yet, except that it'll get the filters from libavfilter in a first step (which include filters for sharpen/blur, deband, denoise, scale and some other things).

Anything is possible, and i plan to design it in such a way that adding new components should be easy, in case someone else wants to do so.


Splitter (?):
-add next audio/subtitles stream keyboard shortcuts - to be able to change them by remote controller undepended on application

Thats doubtful to ever be implemented. A DirectShow filter should not try to control playback like that, its the players job. Maybe someone could implement a dedicated remote controlling filter that just hooks into the graph to do these kinds of things.
Maybe if i ever create a tray icon this would be an option, but its nothing to expect soon because i just use a player that does it on its own. :p

The good news is LAV Video DOES WORK. What is different about it than LAVCUVID and LAV Audio?

All my filters use the same basic structure, there is no big differences.

[Superb]

Audio:
-downmix to stereo (for HDMI - TV connection)
+1. I've helped many people setting up their systems' codecs, and noticed that many machines have a broken Windows mixer. This is probably due to broken audio drivers, but it still forces people to use ffdshow show for audio decoding rather than LAV Filters. Yeah, I know you could use ffdshow "just" for down-mixing (raw audio processing), but most people rather have only one filter that does everything.

[hoborg]

Thats doubtful to ever be implemented. A DirectShow filter should not try to control playback like that, its the players job. Maybe someone could implement a dedicated remote controlling filter that just hooks into the graph to do these kinds of things.
Maybe if i ever create a tray icon this would be an option, but its nothing to expect soon because i just use a player that does it on its own. :p
Then force hookup with ffdshow raw video filter seems to be only solution for me.
Resize + subtitles and Shortcuts for Audio/Subtitles strem selection.

[nevcairiel]

+1. I've helped many people setting up their systems' codecs, and noticed that many machines have a broken Windows mixer. This is probably due to broken audio drivers, but it still forces people to use ffdshow show for audio decoding rather than LAV Filters. Yeah, I know you could use ffdshow "just" for down-mixing (raw audio processing), but most people rather have only one filter that does everything.


Downmixing to stereo is a rather easy task. I've only really not done it yet because i kind of wanted to do some more mixing options.

How many people need Stereo downmixing in contrast to how many people "want" 5.1/7.1 upmixing?

[hoborg]

BTW, why someone need upmix stereo to 5.1/7.1?

[nevcairiel]

They don't "need" it, they want it because they think it sounds better when its coming from more speakers. :)
IMHO, that only makes sense with Music. For Video, you really need some smarter algorithm like DTS Neo:6 or Dolby ProLogic IIx

[SamuriHL]

Downmixing to stereo is a rather easy task. I've only really not done it yet because i kind of wanted to do some more mixing options.

How many people need Stereo downmixing in contrast to how many people "want" 5.1/7.1 upmixing?

My laptop could use stereo downmixng. Would be quite useful.

[Superb]

Well, I guess most people I know use their computers w/ a 2.0 setup (computer or tv speakers). I guess most people in this thread have much better audio systems, but they're probably not the best representation (my English lacks when looking for the correct term) of the general use for your splitters.
If it's "a rather easy task", it would be great if you could implement it until you'll add the advanced mixer you have in mind...
Thanks again for being so responsive and understanding. :)

[STaRGaZeR]

Not liking the sound of a separate processing filter, I see no reason to do so and a lot of DirectShow problems by doing it.

ffdshow's case: audio decoder, audio processor, video decoder, DXVA decoder, raw video filter, subtitles filter. Everything except audio and video decoders is redundant, as it offers exactly the same features, just in a different filter (if this is incorrect I'd like to know it). Yet they all cause a lot of problems with merits, connections and other usual DS bullshit.

Vote for integration within the decoders. Completely separated, in both GUI and code, but inside the same DS filter.

[nevcairiel]

Well, I guess most people I know use their computers w/ a 2.0 setup (computer or tv speakers). I guess most people in this thread have much better audio systems, but they're probably not the best representation (my English lacks when looking for the correct term) of the general use for your splitters.
If it's "a rather easy task", it would be great if you could implement it until you'll add the advanced mixer you have in mind...
Thanks again for being so responsive and understanding. :)

At least AC3 and DTS support native stereo downmixing, possibly TrueHD as well, the code isn't all that clear on that fact. Mixing multi-channel into stereo is also not that hard, just a matter of defining the right coefficients to matrix those channels together.
Not sure when i'll get to it, maybe soon. Maybe i can even do a full matrix, thinking about it, it doesn't sound all that hard....

[nevcairiel]

Not liking the sound of a separate processing filter, I see no reason to do so and a lot of DirectShow problems by doing it.

ffdshow's case: audio decoder, audio processor, video decoder, DXVA decoder, raw video filter, subtitles filter. Everything except audio and video decoders is redundant, as it offers exactly the same features, just in a different filter (if this is incorrect I'd like to know it). Yet they all cause a lot of problems with merits, connections and other usual DS bullshit.

Vote for integration within the decoders. Completely separated, in both GUI and code, but inside the same DS filter.

The thing is, i don't want to create another ffdshow.
I don't want to create a filter that has so many features that most people would never use anyway (me included). I typically don't use any post-processing short of deinterlacing, which means i don't want "my" filter to include all those options that are perfectly useless to me.

In the end, this would mean that the post-processing included in the decoder would probably be rather light-weight, possibly limited to what ffmpeg/libavfilter offers because i include those anyway. Anything beyond that i would be *very* hesitant to include in the decoder.

Note that my design would be different to ffdshow. My "video processor" would only do video processing, and my decoder would only do decoding. The decoder would not offer the post-processing options like ffdshows decoder does now.

What we would get would only be two filters:

LAV Video Decoder (ONLY decoding, both software and hardware decoders)
LAV Video Processor (all post-processing tasks)

No other special filters for special tasks.

Anyway, i doubt that i'll get to those any time soon, because as i said i don't use post-processing, and there are many other things to do which i do actually use. ;)

[andyvt]

Downmixing to stereo is a rather easy task. I've only really not done it yet because i kind of wanted to do some more mixing options.

How many people need Stereo downmixing in contrast to how many people "want" 5.1/7.1 upmixing?

FWIW, I only care about downmixing. I'd like to switch DS transcoding in DTB over to LAV (it's mostly based on custom MPC-HC filters now).

[havas]

LAV Filters really very impressive. the only things Im confused is about subtitle.
First I never saw subtitles on the video whenever i using windows medial player or mpc(disable its subtitle function)
I've unchecked only with the macthing language option in LAV Splitter.

otherwise, I can see subtitle items in Navigate menu when using mpc open a mkv file contains subtiltes(external subtitls file seems can't)). but it seems no work.

[dbone1026]

Even better if LAV could downmix my wife when she is yelling at me (mute preferable, but downmix is still acceptable!).

I do agree though that downmix is all I care about as well, especially for my laptop which I will connect at times directly to a TV

[nand chan]

Downmix is all I care about as well, as I use headphones most of the time, and my DAC only accepts a 96/24 stereo PCM stream (not that I could send anything else over S/PDIF in the first place).

On that matter, I am of the very strong opinion that a decoder should not do post processing. For post processing, you should use post processing filters. The decoder should only decode a source to its closest identical raw representation (eg. YV12 or PCM).

All setup-dependent and/or critical processing (eg. down mixing, upmixing, resampling (audio) or upscaling, color space conversion and chroma interpolation (video)) should be done by the audio/video renderer.

All non-critical, optional post processing (eg. noise reduction, debanding, sharpening, bass boost, compression) should be done by optional filters.

So while things like audio delay should be compensated for by the audio renderer, and things like color correction should be done by the video renderer (depending on which monitor you play on), all things that are universal, independent of source/output methods and/or optional (and sometimes unnecessary) should be handled separately.

This way, you ensure that, for example, down mixing works regardless of which audio decoder you use, and you can freely enable/disable post processing filters without losing it.

Furthermore, it ensures that, when changing the output sound device in your audio renderer, it changes the way things are down mixed as well.

[nevcairiel]

On that matter, I am of the very strong opinion that a decoder should not do post processing. For post processing, you should use post processing filters. The decoder should only decode a source to its closest identical raw representation (eg. YV12 or PCM).

While i agree with you in principle, what about formats where the source actually carrys metadata that help doing a proper stereo downmix, for example like AC3 and DTS?

I would love to do everything the ideal way, however DirectShow is a platform far from ideal, so maybe one has to accept some compromises.

For example i know of no audio renderer that does proper mixing (or at least customizable mixing), so why should i not write a post-processing filter to compensate?
On the other hand, there are some players (especially WMP/WMC, but not limited to them) which do not allow a free-form graph building, and only use a decoder, no other filters between source and renderer. Secondly, those players are otherwise broken that they usually don't allow dynamic channel count changes. So if thats a feature supposed to work in those players, the decoder will need an option to convert the audio to one common channel layout (preferably matching the users preference).

DirectShow is just no place for idealism. While i try to keep some kind of standards, doing things the way i think its right instead of the way everyone else expects, sometimes you just gotta face the (sad) reality of DirectShow.

[clsid]

In case of basic audio processing such as mixing, I agree it is better to include it directly in the audio decoder.

With regard to video processing, some comments:
- don't some deblocking algos require info that is only available in the decoder?
- the MS players do not load intermediary filters in Win7. Will the decoder have an option to forcefully insert the processor in the graph?
- perhaps basic processing (deinterlace, deblock, deband) could be placed in the decoder and more advanced (and lesser used) stuff in a separate processing filter.

My short term wish list:
- tray icon for splitter
- store format settings in audio similar to video/splitter
- downmix to stereo
- ability to boost volume of center channel when downmixing to stereo, as many people don't like the large volume difference between voices and sound effects

[nevcairiel]

Deblocking is part of the decoding, and not a post-processing step. Its always done in the decoder. I know that some decoders offer the ability to turn it off, but thats just quality degredation, and i won't offer it. :)

[clsid]

I am not talking about inloop deblocking for H.264, but the optional deblocking of for example MPEG-4 ASP.

[STaRGaZeR]

The thing is, i don't want to create another ffdshow.
I don't want to create a filter that has so many features that most people would never use anyway (me included). I typically don't use any post-processing short of deinterlacing, which means i don't want "my" filter to include all those options that are perfectly useless to me.

In the end, this would mean that the post-processing included in the decoder would probably be rather light-weight, possibly limited to what ffmpeg/libavfilter offers because i include those anyway. Anything beyond that i would be *very* hesitant to include in the decoder.

Note that my design would be different to ffdshow. My "video processor" would only do video processing, and my decoder would only do decoding. The decoder would not offer the post-processing options like ffdshows decoder does now.

What we would get would only be two filters:

LAV Video Decoder (ONLY decoding, both software and hardware decoders)
LAV Video Processor (all post-processing tasks)

No other special filters for special tasks.

Anyway, i doubt that i'll get to those any time soon, because as i said i don't use post-processing, and there are many other things to do which i do actually use. ;)

And who wants another ffdshow, we already have one. Nobody wants all that crap that is bundled with it. The point is not about the number or complexity of filters and what not. One more filter in DS means one more problem you have to deal with, and you know this damn well. To gain what exactly? Those filters need information, that information is most of the time lost from filter to filter. Color space issues. Graph building related issues. Problems with other decoders. Long list right here.

Also IMHO it makes no sense to do some of them in the decoder, some others in a separate filter, or the other way around. By the way, the video decoder already does more than just decoding video, and the audio decoder already does more than decoding audio.

[nevcairiel]

There really isn't any serious post-processing going in in either filter.
LAV Audio can change the timestamps of the audio (delay option) as well as pad the PCM with empty channels so that broken post-processors or renderes don't choke on odd layouts, but it never actually modifys any of the audio. (LAV Audios DRC option is done *during* AC3 decoding, utilizing the AC3 internal DRC flags)
On LAV Video the only post-processing is the hardware deinterlacing, which you really cannot separate without *major* disadvantages, and i guess you could consider the pixel format conversions a "post processing" step (dithering, RGB conversions, etc).

I'm not *generally* opposed to doing basic post-processing inside the decoder, the point is just that i would never expand the decoder-internal post-processing beyond a certain point, while with a separate filter, only the sky is the limit.
But if i start to include post-processing in the decoder, its likely that i'll never do a separate post-processor at all.

[nand chan]

While i agree with you in principle, what about formats where the source actually carrys metadata that help doing a proper stereo downmix, for example like AC3 and DTS?

Meta data pins

I would love to do everything the ideal way, however DirectShow is a platform far from ideal, so maybe one has to accept some compromises.

Why don't we define a common, unified, expandable and future-safe DirectShow extension channel for carrying all sorts of meta data, then submitting patches to all open source projects to implement this? Instead of adding more and more hacks before we end up with a completely unusable system.

For example i know of no audio renderer that does proper mixing (or at least customizable mixing), so why should i not write a post-processing filter to compensate?

Instead of writing a post-processing filter to compensate, why don't you write an audio renderer to compensate?

On the other hand, there are some players (especially WMP/WMC, but not limited to them) which do not allow a free-form graph building, and only use a decoder, no other filters between source and renderer. Secondly, those players are otherwise broken that they usually don't allow dynamic channel count changes. So if thats a feature supposed to work in those players, the decoder will need an option to convert the audio to one common channel layout (preferably matching the users preference).

I suppose that's a reasonable complaint, but is WMP compatibility really more important than idealism? Do you still add IE6 compatibility code to every single website you write? I think conforming to the broken workings of some shitty program that should die out is not a good idea. It's better to drop support for it, to make people being to realize their choices are broken. It's not the fault of your decoders, or DirectShow, or ffdshow, if these don't work properly.

DirectShow is just no place for idealism. While i try to keep some kind of standards, doing things the way i think its right instead of the way everyone else expects, sometimes you just gotta face the (sad) reality of DirectShow.

Is it time for DirectShow 2? How about a hybrid standard that allows passing GPU resources as well, so you can combine GPU post processing filters just like normal filters?

[nevcairiel]

Why don't we define a common, unified, expandable and future-safe DirectShow extension channel for carrying all sorts of meta data, then submitting patches to all open source projects to implement this? Instead of adding more and more hacks before we end up with a completely unusable system.

DirectShow cannot be safed anymore.
Anyway, regarding the example, the downmixing meta data is typically not exported from a decoder. You just tell it to give you stereo, and so it does. Even if there was a possibility to export that to a mixer component downstream, the data is not accessible without alot of extra work.


Instead of writing a post-processing filter to compensate, why don't you write an audio renderer to compensate?

Because writing a audio renderer that does what i need is 1000x times more complex.

I suppose that's a reasonable complaint, but is WMP compatibility really more important than idealism? Do you still add IE6 compatibility code to every single website you write?
No, but i support IE8 and IE9. :p
WMP is quite a common player, and especially WMC is used quite commonly because it has a nice interface and is easy to use with a remote control. I usually don't spend all that much time trying to get something specific to work on WMP/WMC, but i won't completely abandon it either.


Is it time for DirectShow 2?
Its called Media Foundation, and it solves many of the DirectShow headaches. Sadly other then WMP and some other rather exotic players nothing supports it.

How about a hybrid standard that allows passing GPU resources as well, so you can combine GPU post processing filters just like normal filters?
In Media Foundation its actually possible to have a DXVA-aware post-processor, not just decoders. In this mode you pass around D3D textures with the image on them instead of memory buffers.

I would love to write a full processing chain "done right" in Media Foundation, but what good is writing all this code if there is nothing to use it.

The main point is, there aren't all that many active DirectShow developers around, especially those willing to share their stuff, and not lock it in their own commercial players (I'm actually kind of surprised no-one approached me yet trying to recruit me into some commercial DirectShow software. :p)
Development time is severly limited, and idealism does cost a whole lot more time, especially if you're fighting to live in an eco system that really doesn't support your design all that well.

Personally, i could do without any post-processing beyond what LAV Video/LAV Audio already do now (if you can call that post-processing). Since i have no great personal interest in it, its doubtful that any design that requires alot of extra effort would actually be implemented. So the question gets basically down to: basic post-processing in the filter, or not at all. Since i can make some people happy with at least providing the very basic/important tasks like deinterlacing, i might as well do so. Deinterlacing is the renderers job, IMHO, but waiting until madVR does it is boring. I never was really patient in such situations. :)

Its hard to balance between ones ideals and actually writing software thats usable. At the end of the day, i prefer siting down and actually watching a movie with the stuff i developed. :)

[clsid]

Just keep it simple and add the basic processing to the decoders. Advanced stuff like Avisynth is only used by a tiny minority, and those can continue to use ffdshow for processing. For standard users, yourself included, the basics will be more than sufficient, and it is preferable to have just a single filter doing it magic.

[ajp_anton]

- "Later" i will create a LAV Video Processor which will add all other post-processing operations. At this point, i might also remove deinterlacing from the video decoder (this is yet to be determined).Avisynth processing, please? =)
So you can do pretty much anything you like.

[SEt]

Another request for Avisynth processing in video decoder (and no need for anything else). "Some basic filtering" with myriads of options looks very ffdshow-ish and belongs to separate filter.

Downmixing would be great in audio decoder (the only reason I still use ffdshow audio decoder).

I disagree that deinterlacing is renderer's job - it should be done before almost any other filtering, so unless you want to put all filtering into renderer - decoder is good place for it.

[andyvt]

I disagree that deinterlacing is renderer's job - it should be done before almost any other filtering, so unless you want to put all filtering into renderer - decoder is good place for it.

DI in the decoder would make transcoding easier too.

[kennae]

+1 for downmixing to stereo, really all I can think of using.

[patul]

I would love to write a full processing chain "done right" in Media Foundation, but what good is writing all this code if there is nothing to use it.


Maybe it's the time for MF-based LAV Player? :p

[nevcairiel]

Another request for Avisynth processing in video decoder (and no need for anything else). "Some basic filtering" with myriads of options looks very ffdshow-ish and belongs to separate filter.
AviSynth is such a complicated thing to support properly that it also belongs in its own filter, tbh. :)

My "basic filtering" would probably fill half a propertys page, it would be limited to: deinterlace, denoise, deband and sharpen/blur.

My main concern is that AviSynth is very complicated to use, even in simple setups. It requires setup of external support libraries (AviSynth itself and some plugins you want to use), so for anyone just wanting a simple denoiser or sharpener, thats alot to ask. From the code side of things, integrating libavfilter is pretty straight forward, so only the options concern remains.

I might be willing to offer AviSynth support some day, but i don't want it to be the only way to do some very basic every-day processing.


Downmixing would be great in audio decoder (the only reason I still use ffdshow audio decoder).

Didn't you just recently advocate against doing such things in the decoder? :)

Where i am standing right now on the whole subject, i will definitely add deinterlacing to the video decoder, and i will most likely add a mixer to the audio decoder. Anything beyond that, i'm not sure yet. Since deinterlacing will already use libavfilter, adding more filters will just be a matter of adding the options, the code is already there ... so why not? It will be limited to 3 or 4 processing operations, and there won't be much choice between different algorithms like ffdshow has.

Maybe it's the time for MF-based LAV Player? :p
I'll lock myself in a room for a year or two and come out when its ready. :p

[boyumeow]

@mkanet,

How about turn on UAC (default) in Win7 and clean install of latest LAV Filters to see if it works. Thanks.

[Motenai Yoda]

why with a divx and avisource on avisynth it still pupop-me "Couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dx50"?
(I think it doesn't work even changing fourcc to xvid, or divx...)
ps ffvh instead doesn't work at all...

[PeQuE]

Hi nevcariel,

I've uploaded a video (in fact, recorded mpeg2 TV .ts) that Lav Video is failing at deinterlacing from time to time.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15222696/MP_20111005_18-05_Bar%C3%A7a%20TV_Temps%20de%20joc.%20La%20Lliga.ts

As a side comment, Win7 MS DVB included codec for MPEG2 is also failing the same way, while Cyberlink (9 & 11) Video/SP Decoder is doing it well.

Hope you can take a look.

Thanks a lot!
Hi...

Did you find a moment to have a look at that, nev?

Thanks again!

[madshi]

As for color reproduction and resize quality - maybe I just can't setup it correctly, but as I said it looks in madVR as bad as in other renderers
Color reproduction: Most SD content is encoded in BT.601, while most of today's displays are calibrated nearer to BT.709. I can't speak for other renderers, but madVR converts the source gamut to the display gamut (if they differ). If your renderer doesn't do that, the colors will be incorrect, when displaying BT.601 content on a BT.709 display. Of course all color processing in madVR can be configured or alternatively turned off. Also you can check (and change) via shortcuts at runtime what madVR is doing color-wise. If your renderer shows different colors than madVR, then either madVR is setup incorrectly, or your renderer is lacking necessary processing, or there's a bug in madVR. I'd like to encourage you to check the primaries and decoding matrix your test video needs and whether both madVR and your own renderer handle that correctly. Your screenshots don't really proof much in terms of color reproduction because the big question is which display (BT.601, BT.709, or something completely different) the screenshots were made for. Making a screenshot of the original source without any color processing makes sense only if you watch the screenshot on a display which matches the color spec the source was encoded for. I'm thinking once madVR gets screenshot functionality, I'll probably add a little "BT.601" or "BT.709" or "PAL" logo in the corner of each screenshot to clarify which display the screenshot needs to be shown on, in order to get correct colors.

Resizing: Currently madVR supports the usual linear resampling filters like e.g. Lanczos. Quality should be slightly better than AviSynth"s implementation of the same algorithms because madVR does all its calculations in 32bit+ floating point bitdepth, while AviSynth (AFAIK) works in 8bit integer. Of course AviSynth has some non-linear scaling algorithms. E.g. NNEDI3 is much better quality than anything madVR currently does. But that's just the way it currently is. Non/linear scaling algorithms are planned for a future madVR version.

[Mercury_22]

Since you plan to add a mixer will it be to much to add individual volume controls for each channel like in FFD ?

It seems I'm not the only one needing those :p
...
- ability to boost volume of center channel when downmixing to stereo, as many people don't like the large volume difference between voices and sound effects

[LordMerlin]

Hello
Can I add a video decoder or processor function to increase the number of frames, or as a POT player simply showing them a few times, or the calculation of intermediate frames.
There is a DS-filter, which makes saschet intermediate frames on the video card. Uses CUDA.
website http://dmitrirender.narod.ru/

[Triplefun]

copied frpom the LAV CUVID thread ...

---------------------

Thanks for building a great codec

I run LAV on my W7/HTPC and get spectacular results

However, I would also like to use it on my WHS/PS3Mediaserver/PS3/1080p TV. I have added a GTS450 video card to the WHS although 98% of the time it runs headless. The PS3 is connected to the WHS server over a gigabit network.

I initially tried loading the LAV codec using the Shark007 codec pack (and K-Lite) but could not get it to recognise cuda.

I then loaded LAV 0.37 and found PS3Mediaserver (SB50) recognises it as an FFmpeg codec accessed via AviSynth 2.5.

When playing HD content (VC-1 and H264) using PS3 Mediaserver and a terminal connected to the server to enable CUDA processing I get:

1. lots of video stuttering (Q8400 CPU is running 20% on all 4 threads)
2. sound running 3x the video speed

I have tried adding the TMT5 audio codec with no change - can I use the dll that comes loaded with Windows7 and do I need to rename it when I add it to the LAV directory?

I have tried changing the LAV and PS3Mediaserver settings without much success. PS3Mediasever seems to run best (least stuttering) when I set:

1. the LAV video output format settings to 16 bit only
2. the LAV video display mode 25p/30p
3. the LAV deinterlacing algorithm 'none'
4. PS3Mediaserver 'lossless quality'

What more can I do to get the video and audio playing properly please?

Also when I go 'headless' GPU-Z shows the CUDA processing is not available - I have since been informed that a DVI-VGA dongle configured with three 68 Ohm resistors will simulate a monitor and trigger CUDA - many thanks.

[nevcairiel]

Since you plan to add a mixer will it be to much to add individual volume controls for each channel like in FFD ?

If i give you a full mixer matrix, you can just control volume with that, if you wish. I won't create a separate "volume control" thing.

[roytam1]

New nightly:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111013-rv34seekkeyframe-bb66f4f.7z

diff:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111013-rv34seekkeyframe-bb66f4f.diff

A test build for forcing the seeking of RV30/RV40 video to key frames only which preventing corrupted image after seeking of RV30/RV40 video.

[Mercury_22]

If i give you a full mixer matrix, you can just control volume with that, if you wish. I won't create a separate "volume control" thing.
As long as I can control the volume on each channel I don't care how it's done :D so :thanks:

One thing to consider the option to enable/disable matrix & control volume by remote control = keyboard shortcut

[SEt]

nevcairiel, the problem with "basic filtering" is there is no line what is still "basic" and what is not. I'm not really against implementing libavfilter - it's just useless with access to Avisynth. After using things like MDegrain in no way you are going to be satisfied with primitive denoisers. Why integrate Avisynth and not put it in separate filter? Because you can export some interesting information directly to it (like, frame type, motion vectors if decoder provides them).

I don't remember being against downmuxing (only strongly against yadif ^_^). Downmuxing is something like P016->YV12 conversion and as well belongs to decoder.

madshi, first example has nothing to do with BT.601/BT.709 gamut etc. Without metainformation (like in this case) you can only assume everything is in sRGB (image and device) and no correction is needed. And madVR does it correctly when displaying 1:1 with no scaling involved. But with any scaling it fails horribly as demonstrated.

[e-t172]

Keep in mind that Avisynth cannot handle everything. Most notably it has no concept of frame duration (i.e. VFR content). This makes it impossible to implement e.g. a reliable IVTC filter in Avisynth because some HDTV broadcasts (like CBS) like to mix soft telecine and hard telecine and switch between the two all the time, which is impossible to handle in Avisynth. That's the primary reason why my experimental IVTC filter was done as part of ffdshow and not as an Avisynth filter (I tried Avisynth, and failed).

[nand chan]

Keep in mind that Avisynth cannot handle everything. Most notably it has no concept of frame duration (i.e. VFR content). This makes it impossible to implement e.g. a reliable IVTC filter in Avisynth because some HDTV broadcasts (like CBS) like to mix soft telecine and hard telecine and switch between the two all the time, which is impossible to handle in Avisynth. That's the primary reason why my experimental IVTC filter was done as part of ffdshow and not as an Avisynth filter (I tried Avisynth, and failed).

Avisynth also has very poor support for greater than 8 bit precision (then again, so does ffdshow). I cannot use a full 10 bit pipeline without dithering anywhere.

Color reproduction: Most SD content is encoded in BT.601, while most of today's displays are calibrated nearer to BT.709. I can't speak for other renderers, but madVR converts the source gamut to the display gamut (if they differ). If your renderer doesn't do that, the colors will be incorrect, when displaying BT.601 content on a BT.709 display. Of course all color processing in madVR can be configured or alternatively turned off. Also you can check (and change) via shortcuts at runtime what madVR is doing color-wise. If your renderer shows different colors than madVR, then either madVR is setup incorrectly, or your renderer is lacking necessary processing, or there's a bug in madVR. I'd like to encourage you to check the primaries and decoding matrix your test video needs and whether both madVR and your own renderer handle that correctly. Your screenshots don't really proof much in terms of color reproduction because the big question is which display (BT.601, BT.709, or something completely different) the screenshots were made for. Making a screenshot of the original source without any color processing makes sense only if you watch the screenshot on a display which matches the color spec the source was encoded for. I'm thinking once madVR gets screenshot functionality, I'll probably add a little "BT.601" or "BT.709" or "PAL" logo in the corner of each screenshot to clarify which display the screenshot needs to be shown on, in order to get correct colors.

Resizing: Currently madVR supports the usual linear resampling filters like e.g. Lanczos. Quality should be slightly better than AviSynth"s implementation of the same algorithms because madVR does all its calculations in 32bit+ floating point bitdepth, while AviSynth (AFAIK) works in 8bit integer. Of course AviSynth has some non-linear scaling algorithms. E.g. NNEDI3 is much better quality than anything madVR currently does. But that's just the way it currently is. Non/linear scaling algorithms are planned for a future madVR version.

This is probably off-topic, but I don't know how fast you are going to read my reply in the madVR thread - why does changing the decoding primaries in madVR (with Ctrl + Alt + Shift + P) not affect anything?

I have here a 1920x1080 video file that was encoded using BT.601 primaries (erroneously), but I want to play it back as such. No matter which setting I have the “decoding primaries” set to in the OSD, madVR always decodes using BT.709.

In mplayer I can use -vo gl:colorspace=1 and it will use BT.601 to decode instead of the default, which results in the correct image.

[SEt]

Keep in mind that Avisynth is open source and you can extend it any way you want. Want frame duration - just write support for it. That's how open software works in general - everyone just writes what he needs.

[e-t172]

That's not that simple. If someone writes VFR support for Avisynth, third-party filters will probably need to be modified so that frame duration information isn't lost when traversing the filter. This can get quite complicated.

[nevcairiel]

While DirectShow has a concept of durations, its typically just wrong. If you need the duration, wait for the next frame, and compute the difference. ;)

[e-t172]

I didn't encounter such issues when developing my IVTC filter (maybe ffdshow is smart enough to fix the timestamps). But even if this were true, Avisynth has no concept of timestamps at all, so you can't "compute the difference" in Avisynth anyway.

[nevcairiel]

How the hell do some of those filters that modify the fps work at all if it doesnt have timestamps? o.O

[e-t172]

It's just a FPS value associated with the stream, as opposed to specific frames.

[madshi]

madshi, first example has nothing to do with BT.601/BT.709 gamut etc. Without metainformation (like in this case) you can only assume everything is in sRGB (image and device) and no correction is needed. And madVR does it correctly when displaying 1:1 with no scaling involved. But with any scaling it fails horribly as demonstrated.
I don't think assuming that content and display have identical gamut is a good idea, when talking about SD content, since (as mentioned before) most SD content is BT.601 and most modern displays are not. Of course if the source doesn't say how it was encoded you can only guess. But it makes sense to use the most probable value as a best guess.

Anyway, if colors change in madVR when turning scaling on/off (in madVR) that sounds like a bug to me, but it sounds quite weird, too, cause I've never seen a bug report like that yet. Could you please check which decoding matrix (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+M) and primaries (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+P) madVR is using with your sample, if you turn scaling on/off?

Is it possible that you're talking about scaling *externally* (e.g. with AviSynth)? In that case, if the source doesn't contain bitstream color information, most renderers (including madVR) will assume a BT.601 decoding matrix for SD content and a BT.709 decoding matrix for HD content. So if you send your test video to madVR without scaling, madVR will use the BT.601 decoding matrix. But if you scale in AviSynth madVR may eventually think you're sending native HD content and thus use the BT.709 decoding matrix. You can check that by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+M in either case. I guess you're not changing the decoding matrix in AviSynth when scaling with AviSynth, are you? That would explain why you're getting incorrect colors with all renderers except your own. That would not be a bug in the other renderers, though.

This is probably off-topic, but I don't know how fast you are going to read my reply in the madVR thread - why does changing the decoding primaries in madVR (with Ctrl + Alt + Shift + P) not affect anything?

I have here a 1920x1080 video file that was encoded using BT.601 primaries (erroneously), but I want to play it back as such. No matter which setting I have the “decoding primaries” set to in the OSD, madVR always decodes using BT.709.
I don't have time to look into this atm, could be a bug in madVR.

[Pat357]

why with a divx and avisource on avisynth it still pupop-me "Couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dx50"?
(I think it doesn't work even changing fourcc to xvid, or divx...)
ps ffvh instead doesn't work at all...
Try with "DirectShowSource" instead.

[nand chan]

I don't have time to look into this atm, could be a bug in madVR.

Did some further testing, it only happens if you have “disable calibration controls for this display” enabled. So never mind, I just had to set my display to use BT.709 and the change works fine.

[nand chan]

@nevcairiel:

If I only enable RGB32 output in LAV Video, which algorithm does it use to upscale chroma? Is it possible to implement Mitchell-Netravali upscaling for this task? Also, does it still dither properly and use the correct levels (eg. when outputting YV12), even if you output RGB32? Does it use swscale for this?

Basically, I want to use LAV Video to convert to RGB32 with the best possible quality.

[nevcairiel]

@nevcairiel:

If I only enable RGB32 output in LAV Video, which algorithm does it use to upscale chroma? Is it possible to implement Mitchell-Netravali upscaling for this task? Also, does it still dither properly and use the correct levels (eg. when outputting YV12), even if you output RGB32? Does it use swscale for this?

Basically, I want to use LAV Video to convert to RGB32 with the best possible quality.

The chroma upscaling uses Bilinear Interpolation. The whole algorithm is written with custom SSE2 intrinsics.
Another algorithm is not possible without rewriting the whole thing (and anything beyond bilinear really pushes the complexity of the assembler code). The only option would be to convert it to YUV444 with swscale before and convert that to RGB then, but that means there is some loss (after the YUV444 conversion, swscale will round/dither it back to 8-bit, it isn't any smarter)

My RGB converter supports native 9 and 10-bit input, and everything is dithered to 8-bit RGB after the conversion (from about 15-bit internal precision, iirc).
The input levels are of course probed from the stream, the RGB output levels are configurable. It supports the BT.709/601 and SMPTE240M matrices. If the stream does not flag any, the usual decision based on video size is done (SD = 601, HD = 709).

It does not use swscale, because swscale is either way too slow, or very low-quality (whatever mode you prefer).

In short: Its already the best quality i'm willing to offer. Possibly inferior to madVR, but definitely superior to EVR.

[nand chan]

The chroma upscaling uses Bilinear Interpolation.
Another algorithm is not possible without rewriting the whole thing. The only option would be to convert it to YUV444 with swscale before and convert that to RGB then, but that means there is some loss (after the YUV444 conversion, you would have to round/dither it back to 8-bit, swscale isn't any smarter)

Well that's just unacceptable, I don't like bilinear for chroma. Oh well.

My RGB converter supports native 9 and 10-bit input, and everything is dithered to 8-bit RGB after the conversion (from about 15-bit internal precision, iirc).
The input levels are of course probed from the stream, the RGB output levels are configurable. It supports the BT.709/601 and SMPTE240M matrices. If the stream does not flag any, the usual decision based on video size is done (SD = 601, HD = 709).

It does not use swscale, because swscale is either way too slow, or very low-quality (whatever mode you prefer).

By input level I didn't mean full range or limited range, I meant does the bit depth get converted correctly? Since your 10 bit -> 8 bit YV12 dithering does it correctly I'm going to assume yes, but I wasn't sure whether the same is true for 10 bit -> 8-bit RGB32.

But regardless, it doesn't matter if I can't use Mitchell-Netravali for upsampling chroma. It seems I'll have to stick with the horribly broken ISR for now then. :(

[nevcairiel]

You're welcome to write a new upscaler in SSE2. :)
The Bilinear scaler was straight-foward, so i took the time to write it. But i'm using madVR, so i would never require anything more advanced myself.

[nand chan]

You're welcome to write a new upscaler in SSE2. :)
The Bilinear scaler was straight-foward, so i took the time to write it. But i'm using madVR, so i would never require anything more advanced myself.

I'd use madVR to upscale/convert as well, but then I can't get decent subtitles. The only viable option is to use VSFilter in RGB32 mode (its YUV mode is shit, and the ISR is shit as well because it doesn't work for anamorphic releases / messes up font sizes and 3d transforms).

So that means I have to input RGB32 to VSFilter, which means I have to convert from P010 to it somewhere along the line. I'd use avisynth but avisynth only supports YV12 input.

[SEt]

madshi, again, the problem is not decoding matrix / primaries. I've posted the sample. You write trivial avisynth script
ImageSource("colorsrc.png")
ConvertToRGB32()

ConvertToRGB32() is not needed but madVR crashes on RGB24. Next, you open the script in MPC-HC (I assume that's the intended use of madVR). Set size to 100% - image displays correctly. Now, resize the player window and see horrible color artifacts yourself.

It's not a "bug" it just looks like madVR doesn't do true scaling but takes the same shortcut as almost everyone else (ironically, it claims to take "no shortcuts").

[nevcairiel]

I guess not liking Anime makes ones life much easier. The occasional PGS subtitles for a alien language on Blu-rays is ok with the ISR as well. :)

@SEt:
madVR does not support RGB24 - which i can understand, the 3 byte pixels are horrible for alignment. :D

But please take all unrelated topics in their own threads.

[SEt]

nevcairiel, no, liking Anime is what drives like half the devs here to write programs/plugins. ^_^
madVR kind of support it (as it connects with RGB24), but unable to handle it correctly.

As for chroma scaling - I don't think really high quality colorspace conversions are required. They are just a fallback in case next filter is unable to understand for example P010.

[STaRGaZeR]

nevcairiel, no, liking Anime is what drives like half the devs here to write programs/plugins.

While true, in this very forum you can see people that take it way too far, to the point it's just retarded ;)

[mkanet]

Oh I didnt think about turning "ON" UAC Default. Usually, having it enabled is what introduces problems with some apps. The first thing I do after installing Win7 is put it to the lowest setting possible. Does LAV filters need for UAC to be at the default level?

PS: I've only installed LAV filters once; and, it was the latest version 37 on a completely brand new installation of Win7 with SP1 64bit.

@mkanet,

How about turn on UAC (default) in Win7 and clean install of latest LAV Filters to see if it works. Thanks.

[mark0077]

LAV Video
Has anyone tested the de-interlacing quality output from LAV Video. I am using LAV Splitter, Audio and Video with my GTX 295. I'm using CUVID hardware decoder, Deinterlacing set to Adaptive, Mode 50p/60p, and "High-Quality Processing" enabled.

Unfortunately I'm getting very bad deinterlacing quality. I'm using de-interlacing tests of many different input formats and its common to them all unfortunately. When not using LAV Video de-interlacing, and using software yadif, or output directly nv12 from ffdshow for example, de-interlacing quality is back to perfect.

I'm willing to perform any tests / experiments necessary, I'd love to see this working correctly.

LAV Audio
One other slight issue I have is when playing back some music videos today which have AAC tracks, LAV Audio doesn't kick in, instead the internal mpc-hc AAC decoder, even though Lav Audio is set to prefer. Is this an mpc-hc issue or LAV?

[mindbomb]

quick questions:

vp8 decoding is multithreaded in lav video?

and in a related note, 1080p vp8, is it similiar to 1080p mpeg 2 in terms of decoding performance?

[nevcairiel]

I'm willing to perform any tests / experiments necessary, I'd love to see this working correctly.


Try the stand-alone LAV CUVID if its working better there?
Just to rule out nothing broke when integrating it (or optimizing it recently)

I'm getting the same quality from the CUVID deinterlacer and using EVR.
If you're on Windows XP, turn off "High-Quality Processing".

Also, 0.37 has a bug which causes EVR to display funny things if you have EVR-CPs Color Management active, its already fixed for a next version (look on the last page for a nightly build from roytam)



vp8 decoding is multithreaded in lav video?
Yes.

1080p vp8, is it similiar to 1080p mpeg 2 in terms of decoding performance?
No idea, benchmark it. :p VP8 is certainly faster then H264, but it may be slower then MPEG2

[LordMerlin]

Ok. Quest again. What about smoothing playbak by double frame rating or frame interpolation?

[pirlouy]

The thing with post-processing is that it needs profiles management. Indeed, it often depends on conditions. So I thing it should be a separate filter.
For me the best thing would be if nevcairiel could write something to allow plugins (or extensions or addons, etc.) but I guess it would be a pain to find the good way to develop this...

[nand chan]

The thing with post-processing is that it needs profiles management. Indeed, it often depends on conditions. So I thing it should be a separate filter.
For me the best thing would be if nevcairiel could write something to allow plugins (or extensions or addons, etc.) but I guess it would be a pain to find the good way to develop this...

That's why you should just use ffdshow for post processing, it has filters and all of this stuff already built in. Even if you have to dither P010 -> YV12 in LAV Video, I've found it to be basically nearly bit perfect in my results (no tangible difference in pixel values). It should not be an issue.

[mark0077]

Try the stand-alone LAV CUVID if its working better there?
Just to rule out nothing broke when integrating it (or optimizing it recently)


Hi, I'm actually finding it most prominent with mpeg2 content. The same issue arises with mpeg2 content using lav cuvid, with high quality procssing on or off, aswell as the field order being forced from auto to either top or bottom. Could it be specific to my gtx 295 perhaps, that it doesn't support hardware de-interlacing of mpeg2 through the methods used by lav video / lav cuvid?

I'm in Win 7 64bit with madVR as the video renderer although evr doesn't make a difference of course.

[nevcairiel]

Hi, I'm actually finding it most prominent with mpeg2 content. The same issue arises with mpeg2 content using lav cuvid, with high quality procssing on or off, aswell as the field order being forced from auto to either top or bottom. Could it be specific to my gtx 295 perhaps, that it doesn't support hardware de-interlacing of mpeg2 through the methods used by lav video / lav cuvid?

I'm in Win 7 64bit with madVR as the video renderer although evr doesn't make a difference of course.

You said direct output of nv12 from ffdshow without prior deinterlacing is perfect, but you also say you use madVR. madVR does not perform any deinterlacing, so that would mean your video either isnt interlaced to begin with, or i'm confused here? :d

[mark0077]

Oh yeah when going from ffdshow nv12 -> hardware deinterlacer I'm using evr-cp. When using software de-interlacer yadif, I'm using madVR. :) Sorry for confusing. ATM I'm trying to use LAV Video de-interlacing -> madVR which is of course where I'm running into quality issues.

This is one sample I'm finding useful to differentiate vertrezmotion.ts . I'm not sure if you have that particular sample, if not I'll track it down.

[mzso]

And the best part is the whole new product will be delivered by leprechauns and fairies, carried on carts pulled by unicorns...



Most legacy rates... Apart from 25/50, you know the ones that a very large part of the world that is NotAmerica uses?
I'm pretty sure a 120 Hz display can handle 100 Hz.

[nevcairiel]

Oh yeah when going from ffdshow nv12 -> hardware deinterlacer I'm using evr-cp. When using software de-interlacer yadif, I'm using madVR. :) Sorry for confusing. ATM I'm trying to use LAV Video de-interlacing -> madVR which is of course where I'm running into quality issues.

This is one sample I'm finding useful to differentiate vertrezmotion.ts . I'm not sure if you have that particular sample, if not I'll track it down.

I don't know if you tested that yet, but how does it look if you set the hardware deinterlacing to "Weave" ?
Maybe its a decoder problem...

Does it happen on all MPEG-2 files?

[mark0077]

Thanks nev, yeah with Weave, the image looks simply interlaced. With adaptive parts of the image look like they are gone crazy jumping and flickering. Its happening on all mpeg2 content I have tried.

On things like dvd's (played by opening the vobs themselves), its noticible to my eye that the quality isn't great, but all of these test files show up the problem in a more exxagerated fashion. Can I give any more info / screenshots etc to help? Thanks again

[THX-UltraII]

I want to use SVP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1326189) in combination with LAV video decoder but it seems that in order to run SVP I need to run FFdshow. So I installed FFdshow and UNchecked all codecs at the input section except RAW video where I choose ALL. I thought this was supposed to be the way to make ffdshow work? Am I doing something wrong here?

[CruNcher]

I want to use SVP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1326189) in combination with LAV video decoder but it seems that in order to run SVP I need to run FFdshow. So I installed FFdshow and UNchecked all codecs at the input section except RAW video where I choose ALL. I thought this was supposed to be the way to make ffdshow work? Am I doing something wrong here?

Thats correct you also need to load the script that initializes it in the Avisynth part of ffdshow and that is something missing in Lav Video (Avisynth Script load support). Though the problem is that ffdshow now becomes part of every dshow chain that's loaded with all it's consequences like killing DXVA or crashing Lav Video when using the Lav Cuvid part and i guess it would also influence 10 bit output from Lav Video ? ;)

[mark0077]

CruNcher, THX-UltraII, actually I am able to use LAV Video / LAV Cuvid perfectly do hardware decoding, and then run my svp avisynthscripts afterwards so ffdshow doesn't stop lav video doing hardware decoding as far as I can see.

Actually I can set my svp scripts to higher quality when I enable lav video / cuvid hardware decoding because of the amount of work it takes away from my cpu, its a great combination.

[CruNcher]

That's the goal of it reducing CPU by using the DSP (input) mixing this flexible with the realtime manipulation capabilities of ffdshow (CPU) is indeed a powerful combination if both input/output working flawless together and mixing this with SVP (CPU/GPU) additionally enhances this with a very powerful tool that makes some ISV solutions look pretty odd in comparison and mixing this then on top of the icecream additionally with PS (GPU) you have the most powerful combination and flexibility you can think off Playback wise ;)

[THX-UltraII]

CruNcher, THX-UltraII, actually I am able to use LAV Video / LAV Cuvid perfectly do hardware decoding, and then run my svp avisynthscripts afterwards so ffdshow doesn't stop lav video doing hardware decoding as far as I can see.

Actually I can set my svp scripts to higher quality when I enable lav video / cuvid hardware decoding because of the amount of work it takes away from my cpu, its a great combination.

How do I make it work that I can use LAV video decoder AND SVP together? Like I said, I already installed ffdhow and ONLY checked RAW all supported in the input section but ffdshow simply does not load when I run MPC-HC and SVP of course then says that it is waiting for ffdshow.

[mark0077]

In my external filter window in mpc-hc I simply have my LAV splitter, lav video, lav audio, and ffdshow Video decoder, all set to prefer. In the AviSynth tab, (when I choose to use it, not at the moment as I'm trying to figure out some de-interlacing issues), I just have it import a custom script I choose to use using the following (rather than using svp itself as it doesn't allow control of many important things I like to use, like the use of the high quality dct=true options)

import("G:\avisynth_scripts\InterFrame.avsi")

I use svp / avisynth dlls as packaged in the interframe package here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=160226 , and use a custom version of the InterFrame avisynth script attached. So I'm still using svp dlls, just not the svp software in the tray which forces ffdshow to point to its own avisynth script.

[pirlouy]

That's why you should just use ffdshow for post processing, it has filters and all of this stuff already built in. Even if you have to dither P010 -> YV12 in LAV Video, I've found it to be basically nearly bit perfect in my results (no tangible difference in pixel values). It should not be an issue.
Yes, but FFDShow is not really popular in these time...
Nobody wants to really work on it; if it was modular, maybe some developers would be interested...

[ryrynz]

Though the problem is that ffdshow now becomes part of every dshow chain that's loaded with all it's consequences like killing DXVA or crashing Lav Video when using the Lav Cuvid part

Is it consistent crashing? I just went out and got a 550 Ti so I could use ffdshow raw with Lav Cuvid so I could have more CPU power available for Avisynth.

[fastplayer]

Hi nev!
Seeking this WebM file (video-only) with LAV 0.37 causes MPC-HC rev3758 to freeze (not responding):
http://people.gnome.org/~michael/data/2011-10-10-lool-demo.webm
Using MPC's internal filters works just fine.

[nevcairiel]

Hi nev!
Seeking this WebM file (video-only) with LAV 0.37 causes MPC-HC rev3758 to freeze (not responding):
http://people.gnome.org/~michael/data/2011-10-10-lool-demo.webm
Using MPC's internal filters works just fine.

Seeking works just fine for me in that file.

[fastplayer]

Well, so far that's the only file I've come across that is almost completely un-seekable. Sometimes you can seek 1-2 times and then on the next seek it'll just freeze.

[MokrySedeS]

It's freezing for me as well. LAV Splitter + MPC Video Decoder works fine so it seems to be a problem with LAV Video Decoder.

[roytam1]

Same here. LAV Splitter + LAV Video + mplayer2
when playing with avplay and seek, sometimes it shows a yellow "[vp8 @ 021621a0] Discarding interframe without a prior keyframe!"

[madshi]

madshi, again, the problem is not decoding matrix / primaries. I've posted the sample. You write trivial avisynth script
You didn't say you were testing with an RGB image source, or at least I didn't notice if you did. I thought you were talking about testing YCbCr video all the time. Of course if you feed madVR with an RGB image source, decoding matrix and primaries should have no affect.

It's not a "bug" it just looks like madVR doesn't do true scaling but takes the same shortcut as almost everyone else (ironically, it claims to take "no shortcuts").
madVR does true scaling without any shortcuts. However, madVR currently scales in gamma corrected light. If I modify madVR to scale in linear light, I get similar results to yours:

http://madshi.net/gammaLight.png
http://madshi.net/linearLight.png

These are madVR screenshots, using exactly the same algorithms (SoftCubic for Chroma, Lanczos for Luma). The only difference is gamma corrected light vs. linear light.

It seems that with your specific test image, linear light produces better results. That is caused by the nature of the images, which contain high contrast dithering patterns. When using linear interpolators in gamma corrected light, the blending of the high contrast dithering patterns produces visible errors. Switching to linear light seems to fix this problem. FWIW, this problem seems to be mostly limited to such special images with high contrast dithering patterns. With real life movie content the difference between gamma and linear light scaling seems to be much smaller.

What I can say is that all the current hardware chips out there, even the highest quality ones like HQV Realta and Gennum VXP, are scaling in gamma corrected light, too. I've been planning to add an option to madVR to scale in linear light for a while, just haven't had time to implement it yet.

[VipZ]

That file also crashes PotPlayer when doing few fast seeks. No issue if PotPlayer's VP8 decoder is used.

Nev, when opening an DVD IFO file in MPC with LAV Splitter in use, the file duration is only that of the 1st vob, but the entire movie is there and seekable. With MPC's MPEG splitter it has the correct duration. This happens on 0.30 to 0.37 in my tests and don't have anything pre 0.30 to test.

[nand chan]

You didn't say you were testing with an RGB image source, or at least I didn't notice if you did. I thought you were talking about testing YCbCr video all the time. Of course if you feed madVR with an RGB image source, decoding matrix and primaries should have no affect.


madVR does true scaling without any shortcuts. However, madVR currently scales in gamma corrected light. If I modify madVR to scale in linear light, I get similar results to yours:

http://madshi.net/gammaLight.png
http://madshi.net/linearLight.png

These are madVR screenshots, using exactly the same algorithms (SoftCubic for Chroma, Lanczos for Luma). The only difference is gamma corrected light vs. linear light.

It seems that with your specific test image, linear light produces better results. That is caused by the nature of the images, which contain high contrast dithering patterns. When using linear interpolators in gamma corrected light, the blending of the high contrast dithering patterns produces visible errors. Switching to linear light seems to fix this problem. FWIW, this problem seems to be mostly limited to such special images with high contrast dithering patterns. With real life movie content the difference between gamma and linear light scaling seems to be much smaller.

What I can say is that all the current hardware chips out there, even the highest quality ones like HQV Realta and Gennum VXP, are scaling in gamma corrected light, too. I've been planning to add an option to madVR to scale in linear light for a while, just haven't had time to implement it yet.

Have you considered scaling in XYZ space? What would that even look like?

[nevcairiel]

Same here. LAV Splitter + LAV Video + mplayer2
when playing with avplay and seek, sometimes it shows a yellow "[vp8 @ 021621a0] Discarding interframe without a prior keyframe!"

You're saying it happens with mplayer2 as well (which isnt even a DirectShow player)?

I could reproduce it now, it requires quite alot of seeking. Apparently it really doesn't like starting decoding without a key frame. For some reason it dead-locks then and doesn't return from the decode call. Looks like a ffmpeg bug to me (related to multi-threading, i guess)

Once i start working on seeking improvements in the splitter, this would be avoided.

[fastplayer]

For some reason it dead-locks then and doesn't return from the decode call. Looks like a ffmpeg bug to me (related to multi-threading, i guess)
Bingo! I disabled multi-threading and seeking works as usual.

[madshi]

Have you considered scaling in XYZ space? What would that even look like?
Isn't XYZ linear light, too? I don't think there would be any visible difference. But I'm kinda guessing here...

[nevcairiel]

Bingo! I disabled multi-threading and seeking works as usual.

I applied a fix so that it'll always wait for a keyframe before it actually sends data to the decoder. This stop the freezes.

I should really get onto those seeking improvements in LAV Splitter.

[Thunderbolt8]

in case of dtsma audio tracks, which information does lavsplitter actually diplay? got a 7.1 dtsma track, but LAV splitter displays "dts-hd ma, 48000 Hz, 5.1, 1536 kb/s"

so at the beginning it says dtsma, but then lists the properties of the core track. what about the rest of the dtsma info and why the mixing of information with the core track properties?

[nand chan]

Isn't XYZ linear light, too? I don't think there would be any visible difference. But I'm kinda guessing here...

XYZ is linear intensity just like linear RGB, but the difference is that XYZ is also linear chromaticity. In other words, X Y and Z have no special gamut, relation or proportions attached, so if you interpolate in XYZ space it'll probably be like spreading the raw light in the real world, eg. by using a lense to stretch.

Whether you can see a difference or not would be interesting to check. I'd test it myself but I have no idea how to implement scaling algorithms (eg. bicubic)

[nevcairiel]

in case of dtsma audio tracks, which information does lavsplitter actually diplay? got a 7.1 dtsma track, but LAV splitter displays "dts-hd ma, 48000 Hz, 5.1, 1536 kb/s"

so at the beginning it says dtsma, but then lists the properties of the core track. what about the rest of the dtsma info and why the mixing of information with the core track properties?

Its rather easy to figure out what kind of profile the DTS uses, however figuring out what is actually inside a HD profile would require quite alot more parsing, and since its only cosmetical, seems unnecessary effort.
So, it will show what DTS profile it is, but it will only show the other infos from the DTS core.

[madshi]

XYZ is linear intensity just like linear RGB, but the difference is that XYZ is also linear chromaticity. In other words, X Y and Z have no special gamut, relation or proportions attached, so if you interpolate in XYZ space it'll probably be like spreading the raw light in the real world, eg. by using a lense to stretch.

Whether you can see a difference or not would be interesting to check. I'd test it myself but I have no idea how to implement scaling algorithms (eg. bicubic)
Well, if you PM me with code how to convert to/from XYZ, I can give it a try. We should move that to PM, since it's OT here.

[nevcairiel]

Hi...

Did you find a moment to have a look at that, nev?

Thanks again!

I looked at the file now, and it seems like alot of the frames are just marked as progressive for some reason. Either they were encoded as weaved fields into a progressive image, or something is fishy with the detection.

If you're using the NVIDIA decoder, you can flag "Force Deinterlacing" to make it process the progressive frames as well. If you're using the software decoder + EVR for deinterlacing, i'm afraid there is no solution right now, but i do have some more plans to be able to force deinterlacing there as well.

[fastplayer]

I applied a fix so that it'll always wait for a keyframe before it actually sends data to the decoder. This stop the freezes.
Thanks! :)
I should really get onto those seeking improvements in LAV Splitter.
Naive question: When you say "improvements", does that mean that ffmpeg's seeking functionality (assuming here there is one) is not good enough?

[iSunrise]

Downmixing to stereo is a rather easy task. I've only really not done it yet because i kind of wanted to do some more mixing options.

How many people need Stereo downmixing in contrast to how many people "want" 5.1/7.1 upmixing?
Downmixing to stereo would be a killer feature for me. I already use your filters for everything content-wise and downmixing to stereo would make it just perfect. I could finally enjoy decoded DTS-MA without having to insert ffdshow audio into my playback-chain. Upmixing is not really relevant for me (my receiver does a pretty good job at that), but for others, possibly.

[nevcairiel]

Naive question: When you say "improvements", does that mean that ffmpeg's seeking functionality (assuming here there is one) is not good enough?

No, its seeking functionality sucks. It can seek just fine, however it just seeks to the time you ask it (well, near the time anyway), it doesn't seek to keyframes - for playback thats a required feature.

[roytam1]

You're saying it happens with mplayer2 as well (which isnt even a DirectShow player)?

I could reproduce it now, it requires quite alot of seeking. Apparently it really doesn't like starting decoding without a key frame. For some reason it dead-locks then and doesn't return from the decode call. Looks like a ffmpeg bug to me (related to multi-threading, i guess)

Once i start working on seeking improvements in the splitter, this would be avoided.

I mean the wmp 6.4 which the executable name is mplayer2.exe.:p

No, its seeking functionality sucks. It can seek just fine, however it just seeks to the time you ask it (well, near the time anyway), it doesn't seek to keyframes - for playback thats a required feature.

Maybe we can did the same thing like CODEC_ID_MPEG2VIDEO and CODEC_ID_VC1 for them in the moment?

[nand chan]

madVR does true scaling without any shortcuts. However, madVR currently scales in gamma corrected light. If I modify madVR to scale in linear light, I get similar results to yours:

http://madshi.net/gammaLight.png
http://madshi.net/linearLight.png

These are madVR screenshots, using exactly the same algorithms (SoftCubic for Chroma, Lanczos for Luma). The only difference is gamma corrected light vs. linear light.

I'm just going to mention here that it's possible to upscale in linear light using EVR-CP as well (add a pre-resize shader to decode to linear light, and a post-resize shader to encode back to gamma light).

Here's what it looks like, as upscaled using Catmull-Rom spline6: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/311/upscalelinear.png

Edit: Disabled LittleCMS and added a 16-235 -> 0-255 shader for better comparison with madshi's screenshot (which seemingly mistakes it as limited range instead of full range)

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/311/upscalelinear.png (here is a result close to madVR's, however this is incorrect as you can easily check with any image editor program)

[nevcairiel]

added a 16-235 -> 0-255 shader for better comparison with madVR. (I think madVR does this incorrectly)

madVR assumes all RGB sources are full-range, unless it has data to suggest otherwise.
But didn't you guys want to move to PM or some other thread, or some place? :p

[SEt]

nevcairiel, just let me post one more replay - the issue is clear now ;)

You didn't say you were testing with an RGB image source, or at least I didn't notice if you did. I thought you were talking about testing YCbCr video all the time. Of course if you feed madVR with an RGB image source, decoding matrix and primaries should have no affect.
Well, being png (and not something like ebmp) I thought it's obvious.

madVR does true scaling without any shortcuts. However, madVR currently scales in gamma corrected light. If I modify madVR to scale in linear light, I get similar results to yours
Seriously, how can you name it "true scaling without any shortcuts" when scaling gamma corrected image (99.9...% real world video) disregarding gamma?

It seems that with your specific test image, linear light produces better results. That is caused by the nature of the images, which contain high contrast dithering patterns. When using linear interpolators in gamma corrected light, the blending of the high contrast dithering patterns produces visible errors. Switching to linear light seems to fix this problem. FWIW, this problem seems to be mostly limited to such special images with high contrast dithering patterns. With real life movie content the difference between gamma and linear light scaling seems to be much smaller.
I've written renderer than can satisfy myself for images (manga and photo) first, then reused it for video. For video effect is less pronounced because it's usually more blurry. Still, I'd say correct gamma processing is way closer to real world than effects shown by madTestPatternSource :rolleyes:

What I can say is that all the current hardware chips out there, even the highest quality ones like HQV Realta and Gennum VXP, are scaling in gamma corrected light, too. I've been planning to add an option to madVR to scale in linear light for a while, just haven't had time to implement it yet.
I trust my eyes, not useless (and often false) "highest quality" claims. Scaling photos disregarding gamma produce obviously wrong results.

BTW, same and even more problems apply to chroma scaling. So no way trivial cubic/lanczos/... can be claimed "high quality". Regrettably, here I don't have satisfactory solution myself.

[asasadad_1]

here (http://uploading.com/files/ca79ab5d/dts.wav/) is a dts wav sample that LAV Splitter+LAV Audio Decoder output noise,dcadec.exe(libdca-0.0.5) works well.

[madshi]

My last post on this topic in this thread. Sorry for OT.

Well, being png (and not something like ebmp) I thought it's obvious.
The main interest area of Doom9 is YCbCr video. Still practically every single screenshot posted in these forums is either PNG or JPG. I don't even know what "ebmp" is. So you posting a PNG screenshot does not in any way indicate that you were talking about scaling an RGB image source. Anyway, doesn't matter. It was a misunderstanding, cleared up now.

Seriously, how can you name it "true scaling without any shortcuts" when scaling gamma corrected image (99.9...% real world video) disregarding gamma?
Linear light scaling is not commonly used in video processing. To my best knowledge not a single consumer electronics device does linear light scaling for video content. I consider scaling in linear light a nice "extra feature", which has been on my to do list for a long time. madVR has not reached version 1.0 yet, so you can't expect it to be feature complete right now. Scaling in linear light also has disadvantages, e.g. the ringing caused by negative lobes (e.g. when using Lanczos) is increased. So the ultimate solution should be a ringing-free algorithm (e.g. this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145358)), using linear light. But just because I haven't had the time to implement such a solution yet doesn't mean I've been using shortcuts. I've just not had the time to implement all planned features yet. There is no shortcut in any of the code I've written so far. I've just not written all planned code yet. If you want to complain about missing features, wait for madVR v1.0 to be released. If then something is still missing, you have an actual reason to complain.

I've written renderer than can satisfy myself for images (manga and photo) first, then reused it for video. For video effect is less pronounced because it's usually more blurry. Still, I'd say correct gamma processing is way closer to real world than effects shown by madTestPatternSource
You seem to be coming from the image processing area. Priorities are different. Maybe for image processing linear light scaling is critical, I don't know that. But for video processing I consider banding artifacts to be much more annoying (at least to my eyes), especially if the banding changes from frame to frame.

BTW, same and even more problems apply to chroma scaling. So no way trivial cubic/lanczos/... can be claimed "high quality". Regrettably, here I don't have satisfactory solution myself.
I already have some clever algorithms for chroma upsampling in mind. But again: Just because I've not implemented them yet doesn't mean that I'm using a shortcut right now. BTW, if you don't know this article yet, you may want to look at this:

http://www.glennchan.info/articles/technical/chroma/chroma1.htm

My algorithm plans are different, but maybe that article will give you some ideas.

[nevcairiel]

here (http://uploading.com/files/ca79ab5d/dts.wav/) is a dts wav sample that LAV Splitter+LAV Audio Decoder output noise,dcadec.exe(libdca-0.0.5) works well.

That file is just off. It has around 60kB of null bytes before the actual data starts. And even once it starts, it generates alot of warnings in the decoder.

Anyhow, i slightly increased the probing buffer size, so that it will actually notice that its a DTS file.

[asasadad_1]

That file is just off. It has around 60kB of null bytes before the actual data starts. And even once it starts, it generates alot of warnings in the decoder.

Anyhow, i slightly increased the probing buffer size, so that it will actually notice that its a DTS file.

confirmed,thanks for your robust filters.
:thanks:

[nevcairiel]

Hi guys,

i'm finally working on the new subtitle selection logic, and i could use some feedback on how the default "simple" mode works.

First, let me explain the changes to the settings.
Basically, in "simple" mode, there will be the old input box where you just enter languages, and in addition there will still be the dropdown to configure "No subtitles", "Default/Forced subtitles", "Always subtitles", "Advanced mode".
The "Only with matching language" checkbox is gone, as most people didn't know what it did anyway.

- "No subtitles" is perfectly clear, never load any.
- "Default/Forced subtitles" is still pretty clear. It'll only load subtitles marked as default, or forced. If the user configures languages, it'll prefer those, but if there is no language match, it'll still fall back to the first forced or default track (forced takes precedence).

- "Always subtitles" is where my problems start.
The first part is easy. If there are languages configured, look for a stream matching those languages, and use that one.
Now comes the hard part. What should happen if no language match was found? Or no languages were configured?
Right now, i would look for a track marked default/forced, use that one if found, but if not, show nothing.

I'm not a big subtitle user, so i really cannot comment on whats more common to use for users.

Right now, this seems like a good default. If someone wants more, they can always go into advanced mode and enter "*:*" as a rule, allowing matching of any subtitle stream. :p
I really haven't tested much how Haali works, maybe i should get on that.

Anyway, implementation is coming along nicely, it won't be long until i can show you a version to play with.

[SamuriHL]

VERY kuel. I know my preference for how things work is probably different than most people. I follow the blu-ray model. Which is this:

-ALWAYS play forced subtitles that match the language of the audio track I've selected
-ONLY play "default" when subtitles are "turned on".

I realize this doesn't make sense to most people, but, that is in fact what blu-ray players do with an actual disc.

So to get back to your new options, I'd have "default/forced" on by, um, default. BANG :D

[fastplayer]

If no languages are configured, show subtitles always is selected, and no default/forced track is found, then just use the first available subtitle.
"Always subtitles" implies that at least something subtitle-like is shown.

[SamuriHL]

P.S. I had a problem with forced subs showing off the Star Wars blu-rays...I didn't get foreign language translations in Attack of the Clones yesterday. That's playing off the disc, not in an MKV.

[nevcairiel]

Do Blu-ray players actually let you configure a preference, like you configure subtitles to be in french, and it'll always load french subtitles? The question then is, what happens if there are no french subtitles? :)
I thought you always had to go through the BD menu on most players.


P.S. I had a problem with forced subs showing off the Star Wars blu-rays...I didn't get foreign language translations in Attack of the Clones yesterday. That's playing off the disc, not in an MKV.
Those can't be auto-detected, they are in a separate stream. Its the second-to-last english track, iirc.

[SamuriHL]

No. Blu-ray players do not. By default, they give you subs in the language you've chosen for audio. The menus can override the behavior, though, which is currently impossible to deal with in open source/freeware solutions. What I mean is, if I select a foreign audio track on a lot of my martial arts movies, I get english subs by default. I'm pretty sure that's controlled by the menu.

(Well, actually, if I set english subs for preference, I suppose when I pick a foreign audio track using LAV filters, it should figure out what I want)

[nevcairiel]

(Well, actually, if I set english subs for preference, I suppose when I pick a foreign audio track using LAV filters, it should figure out what I want)

This is all about the initial selection, if you manually change the audio stream, the subtitles will not change (well, with one exception, if its a BD, and the automatic forced stream is active, then that will change to the current audio language, if a sub stream matches that language)

[SamuriHL]

So to spell out EXACTLY how I want it to work in my setup:

Assuming english audio:
1) If english forced subs are detected, play them
2) If no forced subs - show no subs until I turn on subs, then show default english sub track
3) Otherwise, show no subs

Non-english audio:
1) If english forced subs are detected, play them
2) If no forced subs - show no subs until I turn on subs, then show default english sub track
3) Otherwise, quickly teach me the foreign language :D

So basically, if I set subs to default english, I always want forced subs, and ONLY to show default subs if I explicitly turn subs on in my player. Does this make sense? Tell me how to do that with your new model and I'm good with whatever else you do. :) Thanks!!

[SamuriHL]

This is all about the initial selection, if you manually change the audio stream, the subtitles will not change (well, with one exception, if its a BD, and the automatic forced stream is active, then that will change to the current audio language, if a sub stream matches that language)

I understand. See my spelled out requirements. Basically my first requirement is all that matters to me because by default, I don't want subs unless they're forced. I will deal with turning subs on if it's a foreign language.

[nevcairiel]

"Turning subs on in the player" does mean the player needs to select a different track, however.
If you have a player smart enough to control stream selection, this is all null and void, i suppose (like MC16, it overrides any default choices anyway).

There is also always the advanced mode, which can probably do anything you guys can come up with - and if not, i will make it so. :p

I just want to come up with some smart "default" behaviour - i will probably just quickly check how Haali behaves, and try to mirror that as a default so people get what they expect. :p

[SamuriHL]

"Turning subs on in the player" does mean the player needs to select a different track, however.
If you have a player smart enough to control stream selection, this is all null and void, i suppose (like MC16, it overrides any default choices anyway).

There is also always the advanced mode, which can probably do anything you guys can come up with - and if not, i will make it so. :p

Ok, let me boil this down to something that hopefully makes sense. :D I only ever want "automatic subs" in the case of forced subs being found for my preferred language. I NEVER want to see default subs until I explicitly decide I want them. Does that help? :)

[SamuriHL]

I just want to come up with some smart "default" behaviour - i will probably just quickly check how Haali behaves, and try to mirror that as a default so people get what they expect. :p

Sadly, that probably makes the most sense for defaults. sigh :)

[nevcairiel]

Ok, let me boil this down to something that hopefully makes sense. :D I only ever want "automatic subs" in the case of forced subs being found for my preferred language. I NEVER want to see default subs until I explicitly decide I want them. Does that help? :)

Thats of course possible, it does however require the advanced mode, because the "simple" mode will also activate streams marked with the MKV "default" flag.

You would do something like this in advanced mode: "*:eng|f", and repeat for all languages you understand. :p
(Quick explanation: *:eng|f -> For */any audio language, try to find a english subtitle track with a forced flag")

[SamuriHL]

Thats of course possible, it does however require the advanced mode, because the "simple" mode will also activate streams marked with the MKV "default" flag.

You would do something like this in advanced mode: "*:eng|f", and repeat for all languages you understand. :p

Perfect. I'm completely good with that. Thanks!

[SamuriHL]

Can you do negatives in your advanced mode? Something like this:

*:!eng|fd

Meaning if audio language is not english, show forced or default subs in the preferred sub language. Is that doable so I don't have to go through all non-english languages? :D

[nevcairiel]

Negations are not possible, but also not required, imho.

You could do something like this:

"eng:off *:eng|fd"

English audio: turn subs off, any other audio: english forced/default subs"

The expressions will be parsed from left to right, trying to find the first match.
I'll document the advanced mode when i'm done writing it. :p

[SamuriHL]

Sounds good. Subtitles have always been a pain. MC16, IMO, doesn't make it all that much easier with its overriding logic. I wish it would just let me use LAV filter's logic. I may request an option to do that. :D

[masonwu]

haha l like your works ,guy ~ i use it to make up my HTPC very well

[Mercury_22]

IMO the DEFAULT subtitles setting (behavior) should be as simple as:

1.If no languages are configured

a) Show only forced
b) If no forced exist DO NOT SHOW subtitles

2. If languages are configured

a) Show the matching for those languages & forced
b) If no matching for those languages DO NOT SHOW subtitles


And "that's it that's all" ! :)

But if you really, really, really :p want to satisfy everyone ( which I don't recommend simply cause you CAN'T :D ) :
3. Advance
a) "everything" user customizable :p

P.S. What I mean is more of "Do not show subtitle unless the user really wants them !"

[STaRGaZeR]

The default you proposed is perfect. However the name "Always subtitles" is misleading, as subtitles won't be shown in files without flags. Maybe change that name, or create another option.

[nevcairiel]

The default you proposed is perfect. However the name "Always subtitles" is misleading, as subtitles won't be shown in files without flags. Maybe change that name, or create another option.

Yeah that option needs renaming. Ideas? :)

[STaRGaZeR]

What about "Default"? :D

And it would be nice to have the options explained in the tooltip.

[nand chan]

Here's a huge feature request I had: Allow the ability to skip chapters based on a regex. That way, I can skip stuff like “Preview” automatically.

[nevcairiel]

Here's a huge feature request I had: Allow the ability to skip chapters based on a regex. That way, I can skip stuff like “Preview” automatically.

If something should implement that, it should be the player, not the source filter. Not only that there are technical issues with seeking from within the source filter, i just don't believe its the right thing to do.

The source should expose all data available, but leave all the decisions to the player.

[SamuriHL]

Sadly, someone is making the same argument for subtitle management. :) That the player should control the behavior of subtitles. My opinion....only if the player does it right. Cause right now, I can't do what I want with subs (emulate the behavior of blu-rays) at the player level. Maybe I just don't know how, but, I don't see a way in the subtitle options to do it. My request isn't difficult....set a sub preferred language. By default, all subs are OFF *EXCEPT* forced subs in my preferred language. When I turn subs on, I want the default track for my language. This is regardless of audio language as I will only ever use subs in english. This shouldn't be so difficult to accomplish. :( But I agree in principle...this kind of thing belongs at the player level.

[nevcairiel]

The problem with subtitles is that there is no standard interface to expose all the required information to a player so it can actually do a proper subtitle decision. LAV Splitter does offer an interface that exposes all the required data, but i have no idea if its actually being used for that. I know that ZoomPlayer uses it, but i don't know for what exactly... No idea if any other player does.

[SamuriHL]

Well, that's certainly something that we can talk to the J River folks about, cause, that would be sweet.

[andyvt]

Well, that's certainly something that we can talk to the J River folks about, cause, that would be sweet.

I agree :)

[SamuriHL]

I agree :)

I noticed. ;)

[robpdotcom]

Here's a huge feature request I had: Allow the ability to skip chapters based on a regex. That way, I can skip stuff like “Preview” automatically.


If something should implement that, it should be the player, not the source filter. Not only that there are technical issues with seeking from within the source filter, i just don't believe its the right thing to do.

The source should expose all data available, but leave all the decisions to the player.

Isn't that how ordered chapters works, by creating a playlist of chapters? So, would that also mean that support for ordered chapters should be left to the player as well?

[nevcairiel]

Skipping a chapter is a real seek, and can work on all kinds of files that have chapter information. Ordered chapters actually create a new virtual timeline, its quite different.

[robpdotcom]

Ahhh, ok. So, there's still hope that LAVSplitter may support them one day.:cool:

[Andy o]

For the life of me I can't figure out what's wrong, been at it for like an hour. Today I just realized that CUVID mode is running slow with all content. It's barely noticeable with madVR and 1080p/24 full screen, (no scaling) so it might have been happening for a while before I noticed. But, with Nvidia inspector it shows GPU usage well into the 90's which for a 460 should not be the case. My previously awesome looking 1080i/25 concert now looks like a slideshow, with madVR reporting decoding queue at 1-2/8 or something like that.

With EVR Sync, GPU usage drops, but to the 50's or so, which is still very high. And with deinterlacing, I don't get a moving picture at all.

I was using 285.27 drivers, then updated to 285.38, then reverted to 280.36 (latest non-beta), reverted to LAV CUVID 0.13, LAV Video .36, and nothing helps, it's the same. I'm on Windows 7 64-bit. Anyone has any ideas how to keep troubleshooting? I feel like I'm missing something obvious or simple here. It [/i]was[/i] working perfectly before, and I haven't done any significant changes in the past days, so it doesn't appear to be content dependent.

[ajp_anton]

Ahhh, ok. So, there's still hope that LAVSplitter may support them one day.:cool:Also hoping for editions / ordered chapters.

[nevcairiel]

Anyone has any ideas how to keep troubleshooting?

Run a memory test with memtest86, just recently seen it before.
Also make sure its not stuck in P12 performance mode or something.

[Andy o]

No, it was on P0. I already fixed it though, it wasn't memory, I think one of the power connectors was loose, but I'm not 100% sure. I just turned the PC completely off, just moved the cables around (without actually dis-/re-connecting them), made sure everything was plugged in neatly, turned it back on, and it worked. Sometimes I think voodoo rituals might work better with computers. Who needs science anyway.

[Xaurus]

nevcairiel,

I tried the Lord of the Rings extended blu ray and with a 7.1 dts hd audio track, LAV audio sends the correct PCM to reclock.
However, the input in my avr reads 2.0 PCM stereo. It seems its from the "correct" stream, but only L and R channels (no dialogue for example) can be heard.

Is 7-8 channel PCM not supported by receivers or is this a glitch somewhere?

[Andy o]

Does it only happen with 7.1 content (i.e. you get correct multichannel on your AVR with 5.1)? Are you using HDMI audio, and if so, do you have WASAPI output enabled in ReClock?

[Eliminateur]

nevcariel, does the lav video have a deband postproc option available?, or it's just a straight up decoder only?.
i ask because i'm interested on it for Hi10P x64 decode (which is broken in ffdshow and won't ever be fixed from the look of things) but i use the deband filter (on the other hand, maybe hi10p does not need that filter...).
hmm i wonder if there's a way to autoswitch between lav and ffdshow and internal mpc DXVA depending on wheter it is hi10p or 8bit and wheter it's SD or HD....

[SEt]

Hi10P should not need deband if encoder knows what he is doing. Greatly reduced banding is one of main advantages of Hi10P.

[leeperry]

I believe I read that you recently changed the behavior of the audio in the splitter when seeking? Seeking works just as fine as HMS on XP now :)

It's also killer to seek in pesky WMV files that make PotP hang...too bad its seamless parser is not based on it ^^

Does your splitter also support seamless branching and playlists in MKV?

:thanks:

[Mark_A_W]

Also hoping for editions / ordered chapters.


What are editions/ordered chapters?

(If I don't know what they are, then they can hardly be essential :sly: ....but I admit I only watch blurays.)

[SamuriHL]

What are editions/ordered chapters?

(If I don't know what they are, then they can hardly be essential :sly: ....but I admit I only watch blurays.)

Oh really? :rolleyes: :D Blu-ray has seamless branching titles which allow you to have theatrical and extended releases on the same disc, yes? Well, ordered chapters = seamless branching. So now you know, and now they are essential. LOL

[Mark_A_W]

Oh really? :rolleyes: :D Blu-ray has seamless branching titles which allow you to have theatrical and extended releases on the same disc, yes? Well, ordered chapters = seamless branching. So now you know, and now they are essential. LOL

Well why don't you call it seamless branching then?

[SamuriHL]

Well why don't you call it seamless branching then?

Cause it's not. :) Seamless branching is for blu-rays. Ordered chapters are how you implement the same thing in MKV's.

[robpdotcom]

So now you know, and now they are essential. LOL

Especially if you're like me, and you've created ordered mkv's from all of your seamless branching Blurays.

While we're on the subject.....

I don't mind using Haali for mkv's, but it does create a problem with LAVaudio - LAVaudio detects TrueHD as AC3 when Haali is used, so I still need ffdshow to decode TrueHD.

So, if LAVaudio could detect TrueHD from Haali, I could get rid of ffdshow (since I'm using LAVCUVID, I no longer need yadif, so I no longer have any other use for ffdshow)...... OR, If LAVsplitter had ordered chapter support, I could get rid of Haali and ffdshow. :D

[Midzuki]

So, if LAVaudio could detect TrueHD from Haali,

Also,

LAVaudio detects TrueHD as AC3 when Haali is used

Seems to me the actual problem is in the Haali splitter itself, and nevcairiel decided to simply "respect" :rolleyes: the flaws of Haali. Unless you manage to convince Haali to release his source-code :devil: , or convince people to stop using his overrated media splitter once and for all :p

[robpdotcom]

I didn't mean to imply that the problem is with LAV. Actually, I'm sure the reason why Haali+TrueHD+LAVAudio doesn't mix is what makes being able to use LAV for everything so appealing: Nev seems to do everything by the book, with no hacks.

[nevcairiel]

I didn't mean to imply that the problem is with LAV. Actually, I'm sure the reason why Haali+TrueHD+LAVAudio doesn't mix is what makes being able to use LAV for everything so appealing: Nev seems to do everything by the book, with no hacks.

Haali suffers from the same TrueHD problem alot of splitters do. For some reason some long time ago, THD was required to be marked as AC3, because thats the only way ffdshow would decode it. Today, there are official real mediatypes for THD and these hacks only cause problems.

I looked into auto-detecting TrueHD from AC3, but it would be overly complex.

PS: The MPC-HC splitters were fixed just recently to do it properly. :)

[Xaurus]

Does it only happen with 7.1 content (i.e. you get correct multichannel on your AVR with 5.1)? Are you using HDMI audio, and if so, do you have WASAPI output enabled in ReClock?
Yes, "multi ch in" with 5.1 content, listed as 3/2/1 in the AVR.

Yes, HDMI audio through WASAPI in Reclock.

So it seems it is only 7.1. I haven't really encountered any 7.1 sources until now.

[Aleksoid1978]

Can you make and upload a Debug version of LAVVideo ???
Thanks.

[robpdotcom]

For some reason some long time ago, THD was required to be marked as AC3, because thats the only way ffdshow would decode it.

I guess that's why it was always necessary to enable AC3 decoding in ffdshow if you wanted THD decoding?

[Mangix]

or, if lavsplitter had ordered chapter support, i could get rid of haali and ffdshow. :d

+1 :)

[nevcairiel]

I guess that's why it was always necessary to enable AC3 decoding in ffdshow if you wanted THD decoding?

I guess so.

[clsid]

CoreCodec has the source for Haali splitter. I have send a PM to BetaBoy asking if they can fix the TrueHD issue.

[ShadowVlican]

feature request:

the only thing stopping me from using LAV audio decoder is the lack of this:

http://i.imgur.com/USPEO.png

very useful for those surround AAC/FLAC files but only have older receivers (no HDMI = no surround LPCM)

unless there's another way...

[nevcairiel]

Use ReClock and let it encode to 5.1 AC3

[ShadowVlican]

Use ReClock and let it encode to 5.1 AC3
thanks for the alternative! didn't know ReClock can do that.. i'll give it a try

[mrcorbo]

feature request:

the only thing stopping me from using LAV audio decoder is the lack of this:

very useful for those surround AAC/FLAC files but only have older receivers (no HDMI = no surround LPCM)

unless there's another way...

The Reclock audio renderer and the ffdshow audio processor filter can both take take multichannel decoded audio from LAV audio and encode it to AC3.

[NanoBot]

feature request:

the only thing stopping me from using LAV audio decoder is the lack of this:

http://i.imgur.com/USPEO.png

very useful for those surround AAC/FLAC files but only have older receivers (no HDMI = no surround LPCM)
unless there's another way...


There are two possible alternatives in such a case:

If your receiver has at least one analog 5.1 input ( 6 RCA jacks ) and your soundcard / soundchip in the PC is capable of outputting 5.1 or 7.1, you may go this way. Of course, there might be a slight degradation of the sound quality when using an analog connection.

The second way is only available with very few mainboards like the one I am using in my PC: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2638#ov

The Realtek ALC889A soundchip of this mainboard has a built-in DTS hardware encoder ( encoding to DTS 5.1 1536 kbit/s ), which can be enabled oder disabled through Realteks "sound manager". But be aware of the fact that only on a few selected mainboards with this soundchip the DTS Interactive feature is really working. Due to the royality, which has to be paid when using this feature, it is only enabled by the driver if the "right" mainboard is detected. For example, the P35-DS3R from Gigabyte uses exact the same soundchip, but the DTS Interactive feature is disabled by the driver when this board is detected.

Back to topic:

At the moment, I am also forced to stick with ffdshow as my preferred audio decoder because I "need" the feature to select between different audio profiles on-the-fly ( through ffdshows tray icon ). When I am watching movies on my PC monitor or my HDTV without using my surround receiver, I need everything downmixed to 2.0. Nevertheless, when I am using the receiver for sound playback, I need spdif passthrough for standard AC3 and DTS, while I need a 6 channel analog setup for mutichannel flac sound, which is then converted to DTS 5.1 by the DTS Interactive feature of my motherboard.

Therefore I am one of those people which are looking forward to a LAV_AUDIO version which has downmix capabilitys, so that I might get rid off ffdshow completly. I also could imagine that there are a lot of people which would like to have the realtime ac3 software encoder known from ffdshow in LAV_AUDIO, even if I do not need it for myself.

C.U. NanoBot

[ajp_anton]

Feature request:
Dynamic volume, or "reduced contrast" or whatever, something that makes loud sounds quieter, and quiet sound louder.
Needed when watching a movie on a train, plane, or any place with lots of background noise.

[ShadowVlican]

The Reclock audio renderer and the ffdshow audio processor filter can both take take multichannel decoded audio from LAV audio and encode it to AC3.
thanks, this works too

There are two possible alternatives in such a case:

If your receiver has at least one analog 5.1 input ( 6 RCA jacks ) and your soundcard / soundchip in the PC is capable of outputting 5.1 or 7.1, you may go this way. Of course, there might be a slight degradation of the sound quality when using an analog connection.

The second way is only available with very few mainboards like the one I am using in my PC: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2638#ov

The Realtek ALC889A soundchip of this mainboard has a built-in DTS hardware encoder ( encoding to DTS 5.1 1536 kbit/s ), which can be enabled oder disabled through Realteks "sound manager". But be aware of the fact that only on a few selected mainboards with this soundchip the DTS Interactive feature is really working. Due to the royality, which has to be paid when using this feature, it is only enabled by the driver if the "right" mainboard is detected. For example, the P35-DS3R from Gigabyte uses exact the same soundchip, but the DTS Interactive feature is disabled by the driver when this board is detected.

Back to topic:

At the moment, I am also forced to stick with ffdshow as my preferred audio decoder because I "need" the feature to select between different audio profiles on-the-fly ( through ffdshows tray icon ). When I am watching movies on my PC monitor or my HDTV without using my surround receiver, I need everything downmixed to 2.0. Nevertheless, when I am using the receiver for sound playback, I need spdif passthrough for standard AC3 and DTS, while I need a 6 channel analog setup for mutichannel flac sound, which is then converted to DTS 5.1 by the DTS Interactive feature of my motherboard.

Therefore I am one of those people which are looking forward to a LAV_AUDIO version which has downmix capabilitys, so that I might get rid off ffdshow completly. I also could imagine that there are a lot of people which would like to have the realtime ac3 software encoder known from ffdshow in LAV_AUDIO, even if I do not need it for myself.

C.U. NanoBot
#1 is not preferred since i want to keep the signal digital, not to mention i don't have to run 6 audio cables to my receiver

#2 too bad my motherboard doesn't support dts-connect

my options are as follows:
#1 LAV audio decode w/ bitstream and ReClock w/ bitstream and AC3 multi-channel encode
#2 LAV audio decode w/ ffdshow audio processor
#3 ffdshow audio decoder

gotta save up for a new receiver with hdmi

[watchman]

Feature request:
Dynamic volume, or "reduced contrast" or whatever, something that makes loud sounds quieter, and quiet sound louder.
Needed when watching a movie on a train, plane, or any place with lots of background noise.

I like this idea. Such a feature would be awesome. I also hate when watching movie and this background noise is like 2 times louder than dialogs.

But without making any SW volume increase since it noticably degrades audio quality. Just making louder sounds quieter is the way to go.

[dann23]

I like this idea. Such a feature would be awesome. I also hate when watching movie and this background noise is like 2 times louder than dialogs.

But without making any SW volume increase since it noticably degrades audio quality. Just making louder sounds quieter is the way to go.

In windows 7 you have loudness equalization in the enhancements tab from speaker properties. Why don't use that?

[watchman]

In windows 7 you have loudness equalization in the enhancements tab from speaker properties. Why don't use that?

It's not working with Wasapi so it's pretty much useless.

I gave it a try in DirectSound mode, just to see what it's doing, and it looks like it's increasing volume of quieter sounds to match noise level of louder sounds. But it's even worse. Also overall sound level is higher. Definitely not behaviour I like (at least with Vista which I'm using).

[nevcairiel]

Again, ReClock to the rescue. Just enable the Sound Compressor.

FWIW, i will not be implementing such an option.

[robpdotcom]

CoreCodec has the source for Haali splitter. I have send a PM to BetaBoy asking if they can fix the TrueHD issue.

Hey, thanks for that.:)

[golagoda]

Yep, reclock's sound compressor works extremely well for dynamic range compression so there isn't really a need to put it into lav.

[fairchild]

Yep, reclock's sound compressor works extremely well for dynamic range compression so there isn't really a need to put it into lav.

ffdshow's audio processor filter also does a good job so that's another option.

[roytam1]

New nightly:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111019-rv34seekkeyframe-c73aa37.7z

diff:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111019-rv34seekkeyframe-c73aa37.diff

[Sebastiii]

Maybe look into ffmpegsource : http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource/
Part of haali code was in it :)
Maybe it can be used for ordered chapter too :P

[Sebastiii]

Hi,
I would like to ask for test/help, on MP forum some sample didn't work with vobsub format inside mp4 and other files, also on some BD subtitle stream was not detected.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/mp/Sample/Knight_and_Day_Extended.mp4 (vobsub)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/mp/Sample/sub-title-problem.m2ts (sub not detected)

And the last, on this sample (comes from LIFE BBC BD) i can't get sound (only in bitstream) in this sample (it was DTS-HD HRA detected by arcsoft dll and mediainfo) :
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/lav/Sample/00106_NO_Bitstream.m2ts

My AVR should decode all HD format (Harman Kardon 355) but seems not on this one.
I will try with TMT to see what happen (in bitstream ofc).
But if someone can repot if it's work for him :)
Thanks.

[Andy o]

It's not working with Wasapi so it's pretty much useless.

I gave it a try in DirectSound mode, just to see what it's doing, and it looks like it's increasing volume of quieter sounds to match noise level of louder sounds. But it's even worse. Also overall sound level is higher. Definitely not behaviour I like (at least with Vista which I'm using).

Why are you using WASAPI, though?

And also, that's usually how compressors work, including ReClock's. You may get less noise if you boost quiet sounds instead of lowering loud sounds (cause this makes you hit the analog volume higher and hiss increases).

[watchman]

Why are you using WASAPI, though?

And also, that's usually how compressors work, including ReClock's. You may get less noise if you boost quiet sounds instead of lowering loud sounds (cause this makes you hit the analog volume higher and hiss increases).

Well maybe I'm missing something because I'm not really expert in this stuff, but from I read, I always thought that loudness equalization leads to distortion, which is mostly noticeable in victims of loudness war (probably lot of you heard last album of Metallica - Death Magnetic, which is totally distorted and sounds like a piece of crap).

Also according to this graph, compression is about making louder parts quieter:
http://www.sciencemedianetwork.org/wiki_source/images/b/b1/DRC3.jpg

Noise is not what I really care about because of my quite decent integrated amplifier. I'm using SW player volume down all the time without noticing any hiss at all even on higher volume levels (amplifier is at about 20%, very rarely at 50%).

Once I tried to use free version of this popular EQ, which had good references on head-fi forums (http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php?id=13) to boost my bass a little bit (2-3db), and I immediately noticed really high distortion. I don't know if that free version is bugged or what, but after that experience, I stopped experimenting with volume boosts.

So only thing that bothers me is not to add any distiortion if possible. But after a quick try of reclock compressor or even vista default mixer, l wasn't able to notice anything similar to electri-q. Maybe than it really is something wrong just with that specific piece of sw and properly implemented sound boost algo isn't noticable if not exaggerated :confused:

[STaRGaZeR]

That's a nice way of doing it, instead of spamming "Update ffmpeg" commits.

I'll report another bug soon regarding MPEG-2, here's a sample if you want to play with it. libmpeg2 plays it fine.

http://www.mediafire.com/?cye2dhgra9du6v8

This got fixed today in ffmpeg. Tested and confirmed in LAV. Update? :p

Again big thanks to Michael for debugging this!

[nevcairiel]

This got fixed today in ffmpeg. Tested and confirmed in LAV. Update? :p

Again big thanks to Michael for debugging this!

But i just updated last night. :p
Oh well, doesn't hurt to update again, its only been a handful of changes, a small risk of regressions.

The new subtitle selection is also mostly done, i just need to write some documentation for it now.

[kirakami]

does lav supports 10 bit output decoding? I am using MPC-HC
not like ffdshow which converts 10 bit to 8bits when decoding
Said nevcairiel: ffdshow does not support 10bit output, it'll always be converted to 8-bit.

[nevcairiel]

does lav supports 10 bit output decoding?

Yes LAV supports 10-bit output. Note, however, that madVR is the only renderer (that i know of) which accepts 10-bit video. With EVR, VMR or Haali, the video will still be converted to 8-bit, however the 8-bit conversion is using a high quality mathematically accurate dithering, unlike ffdshow which uses incorrect dithering.

[Nevilne]

Could you please add utvideo support? ( http://git.libav.org/?p=libav.git;a=commit;h=0d8506b8c52659c5bfff9535391d5e95ddcd45f1 )

The native decoder only really works in virtualdub.

[hubblec4]

nevcairiel, have you planned a tray-icon in the taskbar to show all avalible streams. and to select the streams there like in the Haali Splitter?

[nevcairiel]

Could you please add utvideo support? ( http://git.libav.org/?p=libav.git;a=commit;h=0d8506b8c52659c5bfff9535391d5e95ddcd45f1 )

The native decoder only really works in virtualdub.

I'll add it after the next ffmpeg update, if i remember. :p

nevcairiel, have you planned a tray-icon in the taskbar to show all avalible streams. and to select the streams there like in the Haali Splitter?

http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=1

[madshi]

nevcairiel, have you planned a tray-icon in the taskbar to show all avalible streams. and to select the streams there like in the Haali Splitter?
FWIW, if you use madVR, you can switch the LAV Filters streams through the madVR tray icon.

[nevcairiel]

FWIW, if you use madVR, you can switch the LAV Filters streams through the madVR tray icon.

Most people that request that feature in a stream switching context are usually using some kind of player which is rather "limited" - no stream selection in the player, and no support for 3rd party renderers (like WMP/WMC).

One of these days, i have to figure out how to show a tray icon, hate interacting with the windows GUI. :p

[madshi]

Most people that request that feature in a stream switching context are usually using some kind of player which is rather "limited" - no stream selection in the player, and no support for 3rd party renderers (like WMP/WMC).
Ah, that makes sense.

One of these days, i have to figure out how to show a tray icon, hate interacting with the windows GUI. :p
Managing the tray icon itself is pretty easy, see API "Shell_NotifyIcon". I think the majority of your tray icon development time will go into creating a nice looking popup menu for the stream selection.

[roytam1]

I'll add it after the next ffmpeg update, if i remember. :p



http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=1

And please test vc1/vc1i decoding again after ffmpeg update as some bugs in vc1dec are fixed according to libav git log.

[nevcairiel]

And please test vc1/vc1i decoding again after ffmpeg update as some bugs in vc1dec are fixed according to libav git log.

I revert all VC-1 patches because the new VC-1i decoding crashes more then it decodes anything, and if it decodes anything its only a corrupted mess - and on top of that, even introduced artifacts in previously working progressive samples.

[kirakami]

Can you add Input/Output "Status" for LAV Video Decoder too?
currently only LAV Audio Decoder have Input/Output in Status [Tab]

using LAV 0.37 with MPC-HC

adding Status will help easier to understand for us
what Video input used what Video output used YV12 or P010

[kirakami]

edit: removed duplicate

[kirakami]

ASS subtitle Filter Broken
Anime uses ASS subtitles mainly
LAV Splitter didn't play subtitle at all except for Opening Karaoke sub
ASS sub renders perfect with xy-vsfilter
can you fix internal LAV Splitter subtitle filter?

[nevcairiel]

ASS subtitle Filter Broken
Anime uses ASS subtitles mainly
LAV Splitter didn't play subtitle at all except for Opening Karaoke sub
ASS sub plays perfect with xy-vsfilter
can you fix internal LAV Splitter subtitle filter?

LAV Splitter has nothing to do with how your subtitles are rendered.

[kirakami]

LAV Splitter has nothing to do with how your subtitles are rendered.

Does it mean LAV Filter does not have its own Subtitle Renderer?

[Keiyakusha]

Does it mean LAV Filter does not have its own Subtitle Renderer?

Sorry, but answer to your questions is So obvious that it looks like trolling. No there is no such filter and there is no need for it to be there.

[STaRGaZeR]

But i just updated last night. :p
Oh well, doesn't hurt to update again, its only been a handful of changes, a small risk of regressions.

The new subtitle selection is also mostly done, i just need to write some documentation for it now.

Yeah, I have been testing that too. Default seems to work just fine!

[e-t172]

Well maybe I'm missing something because I'm not really expert in this stuff, but from I read, I always thought that loudness equalization leads to distortion, which is mostly noticeable in victims of loudness war (probably lot of you heard last album of Metallica - Death Magnetic, which is totally distorted and sounds like a piece of crap).

You can't do dynamic range compression without distortion (almost by definition).


Once I tried to use free version of this popular EQ, which had good references on head-fi forums (http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php?id=13) to boost my bass a little bit (2-3db), and I immediately noticed really high distortion. I don't know if that free version is bugged or what, but after that experience, I stopped experimenting with volume boosts.

An EQ in itself doesn't distort the sound. It can, however, clip the output (depending on the input), which results in distortion. You should try with a lower input volume.

[Andy o]

Well maybe I'm missing something because I'm not really expert in this stuff, but from I read, I always thought that loudness equalization leads to distortion, which is mostly noticeable in victims of loudness war (probably lot of you heard last album of Metallica - Death Magnetic, which is totally distorted and sounds like a piece of crap).

Also according to this graph, compression is about making louder parts quieter:
If you're editing, you can do whatever you want with compression, including of course making loud sounds quieter. But on-the-fly compression algorithms don't have to do that. If it's clipped in the original, there's nothing it can do. The algorithm should also be smart enough not to clip itself, so you wouldn't have the problem with Death Magnetic.

Once I tried to use free version of this popular EQ, which had good references on head-fi forums (http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php?id=13) to boost my bass a little bit (2-3db), and I immediately noticed really high distortion. I don't know if that free version is bugged or what, but after that experience, I stopped experimenting with volume boosts.

That's different cause of two things. First is you're just boosting. The real-time compression algorithms used for watching movies should be smart enough to be able to tell when quiet sounds need boosting. If for instance you have a very quiet sound out of one channel, and a loud one out of another, at the same time, the quiet sound won't get boosted cause it would boost everything, including the loud sounds too, and they could clip.

Second, you're just boosting some frequency range. It had been a known problem with iPods that when using EQ you could get clipping fairly easily. Apple JUST fixed it with the iPod Touch 4 and probably others. Fix was simple, boost frequency, then dial back overall gain.

[hubblec4]

another question.

is it possible to play mkvs with multiple Editons inside?

[NanoBot]

"Editions" and "ordered chapters" are only a different names for the same feature, which is actually not included in the matroska part of the LAV_splitter. Therefore ATM you will have to use Haalis splitter if you need this. Hopefully, this feature will be integrated in the future, but of course it is totally nevcariel choice if and when this may happen.

[kirakami]

any plans for Hardware Acceleration CUDA & DXVA?
only CUVID is included says 'Not Available'

[Xaurus]

any plans for Hardware Acceleration CUDA & DXVA?
only CUVID is included says 'Not Available'
Do you have an Nvidia GPU? If not, it won't work.

[THX-UltraII]

I want to swap my ATI HD5450 for a NVIDIA card for two reasons:

1. Use CUVID and that way:
2. reduce CPU usage. I want to use my CPU for a heavy frame interpolation script with avisynth.

What the best card for CUVID?

[BatKnight]

I want to swap my ATI HD5450 for a NVIDIA card for two reasons:

1. Use CUVID and that way:
2. reduce CPU usage. I want to use my CPU for a heavy frame interpolation script with avisynth.

What the best card for CUVID?
If you can afford it, and want the latest tecnology, I would recommend a GeForce GTX 550 Ti, or higher. (FWIW the GTX550 has 192 CUDA cores)
Here in Portugal, such a card is available for about 125 EUROS.

The GT440 or the GTS450 would also be good alternatives, but are from an older generation.

You may compare other editions here: http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs

[Nicola]

Hi. I asked this on the CUVID thread but I got pointed here, so here I fire my question.
I'm trying to fix an issue I have with h264 decoding: when video has 9, or 16 ref frames, the seeking will disable the video; I have to seek some more to get the video back on, and it doesn't always work. The resolution of the video doesn't seems to be important, it happens for both dvd or fullhd resolutions.
Using mpc-hc as player, haali as splitter (need it for ordered chapters), ffdshow for audio decoding (exept FLAC), video decoding done via software, for fullhd the cpu (AMD 4cores) usage is less than 20% (mardock scramble), haali or madvr for rendering.
So the question is: what is causing this seek issue? my box horsepower should be more then enough, and there aren't spikes of cpu or gpu usage when it happens.

[roytam1]

Got some feedback regarding my rv34seekkeyframe patch/"hack":
The patch did its job well, but sometimes the audio become muted. When seeking to same point again, the audio recovers.

Actually whats the problem between LAV Audio, LAV Video, and the whole DirectShow graph?

[nevcairiel]

Got some feedback regarding my rv34seekkeyframe patch/"hack":
The patch did its job well, but sometimes the audio become muted. When seeking to same point again, the audio recovers.

Actually whats the problem between LAV Audio, LAV Video, and the whole DirectShow graph?

I doubt that just delaying video frame delivery would cause the audio to stop, because audio actually defines the reference clock, not video.

[e-t172]

…unless you're using ReClock.

[Volfield]

New nightly:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111019-rv34seekkeyframe-c73aa37.7z

diff:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111019-rv34seekkeyframe-c73aa37.diff

On this nightly when i set subtitles to advanced and open mp4 file without subtitle my players (pot and mpchc) crash. The same file plays ok when i set default.

[roytam1]

I doubt that just delaying video frame delivery would cause the audio to stop, because audio actually defines the reference clock, not video.

Then I wonder if this will happen in MPEG2VIDEO and VC1 as well.

[Andy o]

Hi. I asked this on the CUVID thread but I got pointed here, so here I fire my question.
I'm trying to fix an issue I have with h264 decoding: when video has 9, or 16 ref frames, the seeking will disable the video; I have to seek some more to get the video back on, and it doesn't always work. The resolution of the video doesn't seems to be important, it happens for both dvd or fullhd resolutions.
Using mpc-hc as player, haali as splitter (need it for ordered chapters), ffdshow for audio decoding (exept FLAC), video decoding done via software, for fullhd the cpu (AMD 4cores) usage is less than 20% (mardock scramble), haali or madvr for rendering.
So the question is: what is causing this seek issue? my box horsepower should be more then enough, and there aren't spikes of cpu or gpu usage when it happens.

Have you isolated the issue to LAV Video yet?

[nevcairiel]

On this nightly when i set subtitles to advanced and open mp4 file without subtitle my players (pot and mpchc) crash. The same file plays ok when i set default.

Did you enter any advanced configuration, or was the box empty?

[Volfield]

Did you enter any advanced configuration, or was the box empty?

I enter this: jpn:eng jpn: pol pol: off (without spaces after : )

[nevcairiel]

I enter this: jpn:eng jpn: pol pol: off (without spaces after : )

Thanks, should be fixed.

[Volfield]

Thanks, should be fixed.

Thanks. Can't wait for new nightly :)

[SamuriHL]

Oh sure, I JUST got done building. Figures. :p

[adam777]

Hi Nev,
Haven't used LAV filters for watching DVB-T broadcasts for about a month, but today I tried and quickly noticed a regression in the LAV audio component of 0.37, comparing to 0.36.
In 0.36 the audio is decoded fine, while in 0.37 the audio is decoded with lots of "noise" on top.
Also happens with the following dump when playing it offline in MPC-HC.
Here is a sample of a raw mpeg-ts dump, captured via the DVB-T application.
http://www.multiupload.com/K1JY38R5SK

[nevcairiel]

Hi Nev,
Haven't used LAV filters for watching DVB-T broadcasts for about a month, but today I tried and quickly noticed a regression in the LAV audio component of 0.37, comparing to 0.36.
In 0.36 the audio is decoded fine, while in 0.37 the audio is decoded with lots of "noise" on top.
Also happens with the following dump when playing it offline in MPC-HC.
Here is a sample of a raw mpeg-ts dump, captured via the DVB-T application.
http://www.multiupload.com/K1JY38R5SK

I figured out what broke it, its a change in ffmpeg. I'll revert it for the time being, and let them know about the issue.

[kirakami]

MPC-HC crashes when i
LAV audio decoder
Enabled Audio Delay
& press "-" minus key
i wanted set audio to play -10000 ms
due to video
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?a8nuhat16bn0ole
i was watching has audio/video 10sec sync issue (audio plays after 10secs)

[hoborg]

Hmm, i just tryed to play some .WAV with DTS inside and it doesnot work any longer - only noice.
Was not that working before?

[adam777]

I figured out what broke it, its a change in ffmpeg. I'll revert it for the time being, and let them know about the issue.

Thanks, appreciated :)

[06_taro]

Thx for supporting vobsub in mp4 files. Hope for officially supporting ordered chapters.

Custom build ( 32 and 64 bit )
LAVFilters-git-r1365(2dc15e5).7z: MediaFire (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1365), NMM-Mirror (http://nmm.me/2c)

PS. Could you please add an option to prefer text formats subtitles or image formats when they are in the same language?

[ikarad]

I figured out what broke it, its a change in ffmpeg. I'll revert it for the time being, and let them know about the issue.

Can we expect to add a deband filter and a TIVTC filter in lav video?

I ask that because with 10bit video, I can't use ffdshow if not output is transformed in 8bit. With only lav video chain stay in 10bits.

[roytam1]

Thx for supporting vobsub in mp4 files. Hope for officially supporting ordered chapters.

Custom build ( 32 and 64 bit )
LAVFilters-git-r1365(2dc15e5).7z: MediaFire (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1365), NMM-Mirror (http://nmm.me/2c)

PS. Could you please add an option to prefer text formats subtitles or image formats when they are in the same language?

I wonder if you've change anything?
If so it is nice to give out a diff file for the changes. (git diff > changes.diff is handy)

[Keiyakusha]

Hope for officially supporting ordered chapters.
Are you saying there is somewhere unofficial build with ordered chapters support or something like that?

[Mixer73]

Nev,

I've come across a strange possible bug in LAV Filters with LAVCUVID.

I'm using it with PotPlayer in dual head, playing video on one screen while I do other stuff on the other screen, and sometimes something like a facebook game can make the video play with reversed field order (I think... its really jittery/wrong looking).

If I pause/play it works perfectly again.

Currently on a fresh format of Win7 64bit/GTX260 card, EVR CP.

Any suggestions of how I can further troubleshoot?

[06_taro]

I wonder if you've change anything?
If so it is nice to give out a diff file for the changes. (git diff > changes.diff is handy)

The only patch I used is your rv seek on keyframe patch.

Are you saying there is somewhere unofficial build with ordered chapters support or something like that?

You can find one in this thread like here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1485416#post1485416).

[nevcairiel]

Are you saying there is somewhere unofficial build with ordered chapters support or something like that?

There are some experimental patches for ffmpeg, but they dont really work all that well. It may however be a basis for future developments - who knows.

[kypec]

I enter this: jpn:eng jpn: pol pol: off (without spaces after : )
Did you know that one can Disable smilies in text before submitting reply? Look under Miscellaneous Options
;) :p :o :)

[Andy o]

Hmm, i just tryed to play some .WAV with DTS inside and it doesnot work any longer - only noice.
Was not that working before?

That's usually an indication that you're not doing bit-perfect playback. What are your settings, filters, player, audio device, and OS?

[watchman]

If it's clipped in the original, there's nothing it can do. The algorithm should also be smart enough not to clip itself, so you wouldn't have the problem with Death Magnetic.

Problem with Death Magnetic is that it's so poorly mastered. There are songs which have dynamic range under 3db. Also, no plugin is involved in this. I'd never use DRC or some other "enchancement" effect for listing to music. It's a pity that so lots of new songs suffer from poor mastering just to sound louder, especially metal.

An EQ in itself doesn't distort the sound. It can, however, clip the output (depending on the input), which results in distortion. You should try with a lower input volume.

Second, you're just boosting some frequency range. It had been a known problem with iPods that when using EQ you could get clipping fairly easily. Apple JUST fixed it with the iPod Touch 4 and probably others. Fix was simple, boost frequency, then dial back overall gain.

I did few listening tests with different VST equalizer (Linear Phase Graphical Equalizer 2.1) and I didn't notice anything similar to electri-q. It definitely boosted bass range I chose, but without noticeable distortion with same samples, even with bigger values. So there must be something wrong with electri-q, maybe not preventing from clipping like both ouf you said, or some algo errors in free version.

Anyway, thanks for making things clear. So I'll use reclock's DRC for movies, since you guys claim it's working just fine.

[ney2x]

off-topic

Shark007 just posted a tool/application for our *mkv thumbnailing (alternative to divx media foundation - which is buggy), called Icaros (http://shark007.net/forum/Thread-about-Icaros?pid=22402#pid22402)

[06_taro]

Unpatched nightly builds (x86 and x64) :
Non-installer: LAVFilters-git-r1368(85d0d90).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1368)
Installer: LAVFilters-git-r1368(85d0d90)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1368)

Happy to see that both libav and ffmpeg has supported both intra and inter/lossless H.264 4:2:2 decoding. Hope for the update of ffmpeg in lav's repo.

[Shark007]

off-topic

Shark007 just posted a tool/application for our *mkv thumbnailing (alternative to divx media foundation - which is buggy), called Icaros (http://shark007.net/forum/Thread-about-Icaros?pid=22402#pid22402)

Not totally off topic... from the Icaros README file,

the requirements are the following:

1. LAV Filters
2. .NET Framework 4

[AmshTemp]

Thanks Shark & co.
Now that we have a single filter that can split and decode almost anything and a true thumbnailing capability without the need for Media Foundation, suddenly, MF importance have just dropped dramatically.
The only wish I have is an option to choose the method of thumb extraction point: percentage based, which is implmented now or fixedtime based.

[CruNcher]

Though Microsoft did this for a big reason and that's the stability of Explorer and ehmm not to sound rude but lav splitter isn't stable as it would be needed to make Microsoft happy to replace one of their core functions in the OS. And getting dshow back for the Thumbnail creation seems a risky thing (unless you turn of the dynamic graph creation and only allow manual connections) as well in terms of crashing caused by interferences of other filter or vfw components that could get loaded as well, not to forget to think about the Security aspect as well.

[kirakami]

Frequently asked Question

Q: DirectVobSub will not load with LAVFSplitter
A: Make sure to use the "DirectVobSub" filter when adding it to the preferred filters list, and NOT "DirectVobSub (auto-loading version)". The latter will NOT work.

What does latter mean ???

[Mercury_22]

After last (2 or 4 rev) updates LAVAudio x64 it's "gone" = with ac3 no sound, with DTS it's crashing...:confused:
x86 it's working OK

[VipZ]

After last (2 or 4 rev) updates LAVAudio x64 it's "gone" = with ac3 no sound, with DTS it's crashing...:confused:
x86 it's working OK

I don't get this issue with my builds, x64 plays AC3/DTS fine in both decoding and bitsteaming.

[nevcairiel]

Make sure to do a clean rebuild, especially of ffmpeg. Alot changed.

[Mercury_22]

Make sure to do a clean rebuild, especially of ffmpeg. Alot changed.

I've re-downloaded everything (I'm using TortoiseGit)!


I'm using VS2010 SP1 + MSYS_MinGW_GCC_461_x86-x64_Full (http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/index.php?folder=dG9vbHM=)

[betaking]

Make sure to do a clean rebuild, especially of ffmpeg. Alot changed.

to nev.last lav Splitter can not Splitter/decoder standlone wavpack audio file!and lav Splitter can not Splitter/decoder wavpack audio in mkv files!

[VipZ]

I've re-downloaded everything (I'm using TortoiseGit)!


I'm using VS2010 SP1 + MSYS_MinGW_GCC_461_x86-x64_Full (http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/index.php?folder=dG9vbHM=)

I use the same base, VS with all the updates, and I updated MinGW with this, http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/cat_view/28-cross-mingwgcc-x86x64/183-cross-mingw-with-gcc-46-x86x64/193-stable.html. I use TortoiseGit 1.6.5, latest version gave me issues.

[06_taro]

Now support H.264 4:2:2 decoding

Unpatched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-git-r1370(3c21339).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1370)
Installer: LAVFilters-git-r1370(3c21339)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1370)

[nevcairiel]

to nev.last lav Splitter can not Splitter/decoder standlone wavpack audio file!and lav Splitter can not Splitter/decoder wavpack audio in mkv files!

wavpack in .mkv works just fine here, i don't have any standalone wavpack files.

[Mercury_22]

I use the same base, VS with all the updates, and I updated MinGW with this, http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/cat_view/28-cross-mingwgcc-x86x64/183-cross-mingw-with-gcc-46-x86x64/193-stable.html. I use TortoiseGit 1.6.5, latest version gave me issues.

Your MinGW it's already in MSYS_MinGW_GCC_461_x86-x64_Full (http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/index.php?folder=dG9vbHM=) AFAIK
I'll try TortoiseGit 1.6.5 since I'm using TortoiseGit 1.7.4.0 64bit

[roytam1]

don't know if you those ffmpeg subdirectory have correctly updated by "git submodule update" command.
Instead of TortoiseGIT, using git command line is the safest method updating working copy and submodules.

[betaking]

wavpack in .mkv works just fine here, i don't have any standalone wavpack files.

standalone wavpack files
http://www.mediafire.com/?5j3ft515rxvimbl

[VipZ]

Your MinGW it's already in MSYS_MinGW_GCC_461_x86-x64_Full (http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/index.php?folder=dG9vbHM=) AFAIK
I'll try TortoiseGit 1.6.5 since I'm using TortoiseGit 1.7.4.0 64bit

Ok, you right the latest version from xhmikosr does have v2. I am still using the version that had v1, then used v2 from xvidvideo.ru to update.

[Mercury_22]

Now support H.264 4:2:2 decoding

Unpatched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-git-r1370(3c21339).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1370)
Installer: LAVFilters-git-r1370(3c21339)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1370)

Your LAVAudio x64 it's not working either for me ! :confused:

So it's not my builds
(http://www.multiupload.com/Q499YPQSVL) (please someone check my lavaudio x64)
But older builds mine and taro's

Thx for supporting vobsub in mp4 files. Hope for officially supporting ordered chapters.

Custom build ( 32 and 64 bit )
LAVFilters-git-r1365(2dc15e5).7z: MediaFire (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1365), NMM-Mirror (http://nmm.me/2c)

PS. Could you please add an option to prefer text formats subtitles or image formats when they are in the same language?

OR
Unpatched nightly builds (x86 and x64) :
Non-installer: LAVFilters-git-r1368(85d0d90).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1368)
Installer: LAVFilters-git-r1368(85d0d90)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1368)

Happy to see that both libav and ffmpeg has supported both intra and inter/lossless H.264 4:2:2 decoding. Hope for the update of ffmpeg in lav's repo.
are working

Again its only the LAVaudio x64 which is NOT working LAVAudio x86 or MPC-HC's decoder x64 and x86 are working

[SamuriHL]

don't know if you those ffmpeg subdirectory have correctly updated by "git submodule update" command.
Instead of TortoiseGIT, using git command line is the safest method updating working copy and submodules.

That's what I do... Command line git added to my build batch file. Haven't had a problem since.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[nevcairiel]

I found the x64 issue and fixed it, someone broke some code in ffmpeg.

[VipZ]

Again its only the LAVaudio x64 which is NOT working LAVAudio x86 or MPC-HC's decoder x64 and x86 are working

Yep before it was my bad, forgot my script only updated x86 files. I can confirm x64 LAV Audio with AC3 or DTS gives the issues, bitsteaming is fine.

[upyzl]

Frequently asked Question

Q: DirectVobSub will not load with LAVFSplitter
A: Make sure to use the "DirectVobSub" filter when adding it to the preferred filters list, and NOT "DirectVobSub (auto-loading version)". The latter will NOT work.

What does latter mean ???

latter --> "DirectVobSub (auto-loading version)"

You should use DirectVobSub, without that suffix

[CruNcher]

be aware its gonna change your colorspace

[asasadad_1]

@nev
could you add support for .amv video files？sample (http://uploading.com/files/8e83bce6/hellgate_e32005_med.amv/)

[nevcairiel]

@nev
could you add support for .amv video files？sample (http://uploading.com/files/8e83bce6/hellgate_e32005_med.amv/)

The file itself works just fine, the only thing that doesn't is decoding with LAV Video. I can add that to the formats, i suppose.

[06_taro]

x64 ffmpeg issue fixed.

Unpatched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-git-r1374(4ce224f).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1374)
Installer: LAVFilters-git-r1374(4ce224f)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1374)

[mindbomb]

Check out this mkv made from importing an m2ts with vc-1 video into mkvmerge 5.0.1:
http://www.mediafire.com/?3gshc717zk26udg

By default, it plays badly. With vc-1 timestamp correction forced on, it's better, but i don't think it's perfect.

And you don't have to use my sample, as it appears to happen with any vc-1 m2ts thats been made into an mkv through mkvmerge 5.0.1.

[nevcairiel]

Since mpegts import is rather new in mkvmerge, i would call it a bug in there, and the files are not muxed the same as from raw vc1 streams.
It looks like it muxed them with only PTS timestamps, but no DTS timestamps - but all other VC-1 when muxed from a raw stream for example are muxed with DTS only, which is the de-facto standard today.

I cannot detect from what source a MKV file is, and if this does not get fixed in mkvmerge, i'm afraid the files will remain broken.
You should report it to the mkvmerge author.

PS:
FWIW, those files are equally broken with all splitters. (Tried Haali and MPC-HC, as well as LAV of course)

[glorp]

nev,

I have a question about the advanced audio,subs selection string after reading through the new readme. Will it be possible to use the foced/default flags as selection criteria on audio tracks as well as subs? The reason I ask is that I came on to a situation recently where a blu-ray had an audio track in Italian PCM but also an English DD 2.0 commentary track. My normal advanced selection string would be:

eng:eng|f eng:off *:*|f *:eng

but it won't work for this case because I get the English commentary and no subs instead of the Italian audio and English subs. I can't think of any way to deal with it except "mis-label" the commentary as something like "und" and include that in the string or,
if I could do:

*|f:eng eng:eng|f eng:off *:*|f *:eng

then mux the Italian track as forced. That would do it but the advanced mode would have to deal with forced flags on audio tracks as well. Maybe I've overlooked something?

Also just a suggestion that you might want to use a required delimiter other than a space between audio/sub pairs so it's easier to write and spot errors. Maybe ";" like Haali's:
eng:eng|f;eng:off;*:*|f;*:eng

It looks great so far! Thanks for getting to it.

[nevcairiel]

It actually supports different delimiters, space is only one of them. "eng:eng;eng:off" is perfectly valid syntax (It supports semicolon, comma and space)
I do not have plans to allow "advanced" audio selection at this time, though. Maybe that wasn't particularly clear, the advanced selection is *only* for subtitles.

"eng:eng" means "Use english subtitles when english audio is active", it does NOT mean "Use english audio and english subtitles". Audio is still selected as in the previous version, from the separate audio language box.

I realize this is different to how Haalis thing works, but i do believe it makes more sense.

[glorp]

OK. It wasn't clear that it only applied to subs and had no effect an audio selection but it won't really matter if you only have one language preference configured anyway like I do.

The only answer I can see to my specific case then is to mis-tag the commentary track as "und".

[magic144]

Hi,
just been looking at some BBC iPlayer downloads (MP4 via get_iplayer)

I noticed that when playing back the .mp4 originals (Zoom Player Max v8 latest RC), LAV Splitter (0.37) seems to produce a slight A/V sync discrepency, which I do not get if, e.g., I play the same file in VLC 1.1.11 (or in fact the same file in Zoom with Haali 1.11.96.14 as the splitter)
Here is a sample:-
http://www.mediafire.com/?icr4bnnfqt0a1qd

IF I remux the file into an mkv using mkvmerge GUI (5.0.1), the mkv plays back with LAV Splitter perfectly fine (in sync terms).

One thing I do notice is that after the remux, mediainfo (0.7.50) reports -80ms for "Delay relative to video" under the audio AAC track inside the new (Matroska/mkv) container.

Hope you can find the cause of this!

cheers for a superb tool,
m

[nevcairiel]

I noticed that when playing back the .mp4 originals (Zoom Player Max v8 latest RC), LAV Splitter (0.37) seems to produce a slight A/V sync discrepency, which I do not get if, e.g., I play the same file in VLC 1.1.11 (or in fact the same file in Zoom with Haali 1.11.96.14 as the splitter)


It looks like ffmpeg fails to regard the edit list (elst atom) which defines a time-stamp offset.
I found a pretty trivial fix, I'm not sure however if my fix is universally right, but it does appear to "fix" the timestamps to be exactly the same Haali delivers.

I'll have to double check some other sources to see if i this is the real solution, though.

[magic144]

wow that was fast! - I knew an expert would be able to zoom in on something like the atoms
(I'm afraid MP4 is a total mystery to me - is there a simple tool out there to decode these atoms - e.g. if I point the .mp4 file at the tool, it will highlight, for instance, this time-stamp offset?)

I wonder why in the post-mux .mkv, it lists the audio track as -80ms for "Delay relative to video" (i.e. NEGATIVE)
if you play back the original .mp4 file under LAV Splitter, you need to POSITIVELY delay the audio by 80ms to make it correct...

in any case, HUGE thanks again, hope you can confirm your fix!

[SamuriHL]

atomic parsley is sometimes useful for that.

[magic144]

@SamuriHL - thanks, will investigate...

just found something called mp4dump from mpeg4iptools that seems to at least allow me to see all of these header structures (including this Edit List/elst atom)

here is the beastie...
type edts
type elst
version = 0 (0x00)
flags = 0 (0x000000)
entryCount = 2 (0x00000002)
segmentDuration = 80 (0x00000050)
mediaTime = 4294967295 (0xffffffff)
mediaRate = 1 (0x0001)
reserved = 0 (0x0000)
segmentDuration[1] = 3540000 (0x00360420)
mediaTime[1] = 2 (0x00000002)
mediaRate[1] = 1 (0x0001)
reserved[1] = 0 (0x0000)

which, in conjunction with reading this very interesting doc:
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/QuickTime/QTFF/QTFFChap2/qtff2.html

suggests to me that the "video" track (in which header this atom seems to dwell) comprises a) an 80ms segment of "empty edit" and b) "the real video clip" segment of 3540s

is that about right?
what about the reason for mediainfo's reported -80ms delay on the audio track in the .mkv though?? (and how does that relate to having to apply a +80ms delay to the audio in ZP with LAV Splitter for the .mp4 file?)

[nevcairiel]

I'm not sure why, but it appears the first edit list entry defines a negative offset (at least if its mediaTime is -1, or 0xffffffff). Must be defined like that in the spec, the code works like that in other parts too. I didn't find a spec to confirm it, though.
The whole concept is called an "empty edit" apparently, but i couldn't find any specific technical details. I sadly do not have the MP4 spec at hand.

So the file is actually set up like this:
First audio at 0, first video at 160ms. The edit list is defined to offset that to 80 for video, which then results in the -80ms for audio, or +80 for video. ;)

[magic144]

@nev - that document I referenced describes the empty edit
"Media time: A 32-bit integer containing the starting time within the media of this edit segment (in media timescale units). If this field is set to –1, it is an empty edit."
and
"In the absence of an edit list, the presentation of a track starts immediately. An empty edit is used to offset the start time of a track."

mostly this stuff is still just confusing me
did you get "first audio at 0, first video at 160ms" from timestamps in the actual stream data? (I don't know how to look at that)...

if I end up with a valid file, I will be happy... if I end up with a load of files that one day don't work, not so happy ;-)
so far, remuxing to mkv has always worked for me - I hope I can keep trusting that process :-)

[nevcairiel]

So far it seems to do what it should do on the mp4s i have tested, but i don't have all that many tbh.
I'll keep testing some files, i doubt it has the potential to really break stuff, in the worst case you end up with more desync. :p easy enough to revert if thats the case.

[magic144]

and do you think that
a) the original source file (mp4) is intact and semantically valid? (probably I expect)
and
b) remuxing it through mkvmerge (into an mkv container) is also valid? (I have always done this for years)

as long as the files are safe and sound, I can happily wait for software to catch up - plus I already have seen (and heard!) that the mkv repackaged version plays A-OK

I assume the only "error" right now is in the way the file is interpreted in LAV Splitter (using some ffmpeg library I assume from your post) which is something you have clearly already solved and are just testing :-)
...so is the fix in ffmpeg itself, or the way you use it?

thanks again for the hard work... (and for the stuff you did before to help Blight resolve those issues with the LAV Audio graph teardown issues)

[nevcairiel]

I assume the file itself is just fine, and remuxing is probably fine as well, as the result is ok, apparently.
And yes, i use ffmpeg for reading the file, and it just did not account for the edit list in this case. The fix is in ffmpeg itself,.

[betaking]

I assume the file itself is just fine, and remuxing is probably fine as well, as the result is ok, apparently.
And yes, i use ffmpeg for reading the file, and it just did not account for the edit list in this case. The fix is in ffmpeg itself,.

TO NEV:
if use last lav Splitter to Splitter mkv .use wavpack for lavaudio or last wavpack-directshow
http://code.google.com/p/wavpack-directshow/
mediaplayer give me not good sound!
test file
http://www.mediafire.com/?62l18m72ztxbmdo

[CruNcher]

It looks like ffmpeg fails to regard the edit list (elst atom) which defines a time-stamp offset.
I found a pretty trivial fix, I'm not sure however if my fix is universally right, but it does appear to "fix" the timestamps to be exactly the same Haali delivers.

I'll have to double check some other sources to see if i this is the real solution, though.

i wonder if this fixes a freeze i got in one of my *.mov test samples finally (thats not happening with MPC-HC and neither Hallis splitter) ;)

[nevcairiel]

Hi,

here is a test build which, among other things, trys to fix the MP4 A/V sync problem reported.
If you people that watch MP4 files on a regular basis could test this, and report if it improved, or possibly got worse on other files, that would be great.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.37-50-g41ed098.zip

[magic144]

seems good on my 2 latest clips, hope it doesn't break things for others - thanks nev

[fastplayer]

Nev, I've noticed that LAVVideo's RGB32 produces a "colder" red compared to ffdshow's RGB32 converter with this sample: http://leak.no-ip.org/Stuff/lipsum.avi

Take a look at these screenshots:
EVR-CP + LAV Video RGB32
http://s2.postimage.org/6faa0hes/EVR_RGB32.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/6faa0hes/)

EVR-CP + ffdshow RGB32
http://s2.postimage.org/6fnib9d0/EVR_ffd_RGB32.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/6fnib9d0/)

madVR's output is similar to ffdshow's. What could be the reason for the different color tone?

PS: Just wanted to confirm that your latest test build fixes the WebM seeking issue (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1532015#post1532015) I reported a while ago. Thanks!

[nevcairiel]

I compared the actual color tones produced, and LAV produces a color that is exactly RGB 255,0,0, so a pure red, while ffdshow produces a 255,24,0 color, red with a small hint of green.
Which is more correct is hard to say, i did find a small inaccuracy in ffdshows YUV->RGB matrices and updated them to the reference values when i wrote my RGB converter, but its not enough to account for this big change, i would think.

The odd thing is, no matter where i look, i find slightly different coefficients for the conversion matrix.
In the end, i went with the values defined in the official standards, as defined by the the ITU-R for BT.601 and BT.709.

For the record, the coefficients used are:

BT.601: Kr: 0.299, Kg: 0.587, Kb: 0.114
BT.709: Kr: 0.2126, Kg: 0.7152, Kb: 0.0722

This file uses BT.601, because its SD and the video stream does not indicate a color space.

Personally, i would think the pure red is more accurate, but who knows what the creator of that video went with.

Edit:
I just noticed that madVR seems to use a BT.709 matrix when feeding it YV12. Wonder why that is .. it doesn't qualify for my HD rules, because i require it to either be 720 pixel high or 1280 pixel wide.
Maybe madshi reads this? :)

[fastplayer]

Thanks a lot for the thorough answer! :)
I should've asked you this earlier and save myself a lot of time trying to figure out what I did wrong... *argh*

As for your MP4 test build: No issues so far (tested on MOV trailers and MP4 samples).

[madshi]

I just noticed that madVR seems to use a BT.709 matrix when feeding it YV12. Wonder why that is .. it doesn't qualify for my HD rules, because i require it to either be 720 pixel high or 1280 pixel wide.
Maybe madshi reads this? :)
He does. NTSC is 480 pixels high. PAL is 576 pixels high. So madVR considers every source which is higher than 576 pixels as HD -> BT.709.

[nevcairiel]

I guess the resolutions between PAL/NTSC SD and 720p are somewhat rare, so you can go either way on these. I'll stick with my rules, i suppose. (And i think 255,0,0 is a nicer red. :p)

[Superb]

madshi: what about anamorphic DVDs where the width can be stretched when decoding and viewing it on a wide screen? by your rules, aren't these considered HD...?

[nevcairiel]

The stretching is done after decoding, the decoded image remains the same.

[Superb]

Is it always done by the renderer?

[madshi]

madshi: what about anamorphic DVDs where the width can be stretched when decoding and viewing it on a wide screen? by your rules, aren't these considered HD...?
As you say, the *width* is usually stretched, not the height. madVR allows SD content to go up to 1024 pixels wide. Only content which is wider than 1024 pixels (or higher than 576 pixels) is considered "HD" by madVR.

[CruNcher]

hmm it doesn't fix this strange freeze in the *.mov (H.264) i guess i have to supply a sample now but im not quiete sure how if it's a error without fixing it and the sample is very huge 1,24 GB ;)
Though if even Quicktimes own Parser doesn't freeze it must be a bug ;)

[STaRGaZeR]

As you say, the *width* is usually stretched, not the height. madVR allows SD content to go up to 1024 pixels wide. Only content which is wider than 1024 pixels (or higher than 576 pixels) is considered "HD" by madVR.

ffdshow has the same rules for the same reason. 1024x576 (encoded PAL DVDs) looks wrong with LAV.

[nevcairiel]

Only content >=720 pixels high or >=1280 pixel wide is considered HD by LAV, so a 1024x576 would still be perfectly fine SD content.

if (matrix == DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_Unknown) {
matrix = (swsHeight >= 720 || swsWidth >= 1280) ? DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT709 : DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT601;
}

I just read that the MSDN defines it differently as well, so i may change it.

DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_Unknown
Unknown. For standard-definition content, treat as DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT601. For high-definition content, treat as DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT709. (High-definition content is defined for this purpose as anything with a source height greater than 576 lines.)

[CruNcher]

@ Nev could you make a debug version :/

it seems to be a timestamp issue if i use lav video the whole thing plays strange with ministucks (though its 46 mbit 2k so it almost kills all 4 cores with Lav Video stucks could be coming from that actually)

Writing library : Apple QuickTime (The samples muxer)

[STaRGaZeR]

Yeah sorry, screw that post, your new converter doesn't have the issue. It probably was a swscaler thing. However there are more problematic resolutions like 1280x544 (2,35:1 720p without black bars).

matrix = (swsHeight > 576 || swsWidth >= 1280) ? DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT709 : DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT601;

This should address those cases.

[nevcairiel]

However there are more problematic resolutions like 1280x544 (2,35:1 720p without black bars).

matrix = (swsHeight > 576 || swsWidth >= 1280) ? DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT709 : DXVA2_VideoTransferMatrix_BT601;

This should address those cases.

The old logic was fine as well with that resolution.
As i figured it, if its 16:9, its usually always 1280 wide, and depending on AR some other height. If its 4:3, its probably 720 high, with some width like 960 or such.

Anyhow, since the 1024x576 rule seems to be common, i use it now as well, so a width > 1024 or a height > 576 will now call for HD.

[CruNcher]

jesus the ministuck issue with lav video was yv12 related again outputing boosted it to 80% cpu utilization @ NV12 its ok (23% cpu like CoreAVC and Cyberlinks Software Decoder)

still it freezes that seems 100% parser related :(

[hoborg]

@nevcairiel:
Can you please take a look on DTS in WAV? It seems to stop working.

[nevcairiel]

jesus the ministuck issue with lav video was yv12 related again outputing boosted it to 80% cpu utilization @ NV12 its ok (23% cpu like CoreAVC and Cyberlinks Software Decoder)(

Sounds like your renderer is doing weird things, YV12 is so straight forward processing in LAV Video, its just a plain memory copy from the decoder onto the output frame.

[nevcairiel]

@nevcairiel:
Can you please take a look on DTS in WAV? It seems to stop working.

Did you read my responses to your ticket comment? It still works perfectly like before.

[CruNcher]

hmm might be jans renderer acting strange with intels driver (though intels decoding performance is always the best with NV12 except if the input is natively 4:2:2 then it depends on the decoder as you saw from mainconcepts mpeg-2 vs lav video vs ffdshow test) :(

But this is a side thing the main issue is this freeze problem with this *.mov and lav splitter, where sound continues and video freezes without any warning (issue) before just rapidly instantly on 1 to the next frame it freezes (changing to MPC-HC Mp4/MOV splitter and it doesn't freeze) seeking is also not possible behind this point of freeze it just seeks the audio :)

Though im not sure how to supply this without fixing it and a 1.24 GB sample upload would take some time if i find some space to host it :P

[hoborg]

Did you read my responses to your ticket comment? It still works perfectly like before.

No, sorry, i didnt recieve any email about ticket update.
That is strange, i just tested your latest build you posted and i got only static...
I will post some samples.

[hoborg]

I think i found the problem. If i now open WAV with DTS in graphstudio, it create LAV splitter to audio renderer connection, LAV audio decoder is not added.

[nevcairiel]

I think i found the problem. If i now open WAV with DTS in graphstudio, it create LAV splitter to audio renderer connection, LAV audio decoder is not added.

Whatever player you're using, you just need to force it to load LAV Audio, even if the splitter claims its PCM. With MPC-HC, thats easy enough, just set LAV Audio to preferred, and it should always be inserted into the graph.

Sadly detecting DTS-in-WAV in the splitter is not so easy at this time.

[CruNcher]

funny trying to cut it with any ffmpeg based tools either crashes the host application or shows the same issues with seeking problems :P
VLC parses the freeze without issues though glitches for a moment encountering it that glitch is absolutely non visible with MPC-HCs splitter also seeking works with VLC (behind the problem)

nev a debug version of lav splitter would be great maybe we can see something in the output :) i also prepare a video of showing what different parser do here :)

[hoborg]

Whatever player you're using, you just need to force it to load LAV Audio, even if the splitter claims its PCM. With MPC-HC, thats easy enough, just set LAV Audio to preferred, and it should always be inserted into the graph.

Sadly detecting DTS-in-WAV in the splitter is not so easy at this time.

MY HTPC is NPVR based to play all media. There is no way to force any filter to be added in to graph - it is the same like in graphstudio, NPVR just ask DS to play the file.

[nevcairiel]

You can use some filter management tool to increase LAV Audios merit to something insanely high, maybe it helps.

[nevcairiel]

nev a debug version of lav splitter would be great maybe we can see something in the output :)

just run "ffmpeg -v 9 -loglevel 99 -i <filename>", that'll get you all the important output.

Builds available here:
http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/

If i had to guess, that file just has multiple edit lists, which is not supported by ffmpeg.

[TheLion]

@nevcairiel:

I have a rather strange kind of issue. I am using lavfilter (splitter, audio decoder) with MC17. My setup is rather special in that I use a convolution VST plugin (Convolver to run Audiolense FIR filters). Output is per ASIO to a Prism Orpheus.

My issue is that I get (slightly) different results from outputting 32bit float (per setting this as only output format) from your decoder into the MC audio engine (64bit float) instead of the native 16bit/24bit int (flac files, bdmv's lossless tracks).

So basically the difference (using 32bit float output from Lav audio decoder results in a "brighter", more aggressive, more forward and "focused" presentation. 24 bit int output into the audio engine is "smoother"). I don't want to sound like I have found another snake oil audiophile trick but results are reproducible and confirmed by my better half. I witnessed the same thing in the old days where I was ripping anything to flac in mkv's and using madflac (24bit/16bit int) or ffdshow (with 32bit float output).

This definitely may have to do with my convolution which happens with 32 float processing.

So in the end there has to be an int->float conversion somewhere - instead of JRiver MC audio engine doing it (using 24bit int from lav decoder) doing this conversion at lav audio level gives different results.

Talking to the developer of Audiolense those time correction FIR filter are quite sensitive to any kind of jitter/distortion occurring between the decoder and the VST plugin.

Question is: Does Lavfilter/ffmpeg do a reference job with int-> float conversion (when the int decoder output is converted to float for lossless tracks, I always thought this conversion to be practically lossless?!)? Is there any chance Lavfilter introduces jitter/any kind of distortion with this conversion? Is this better handled within the JRiver MC audio engine and the output of Lavfilter kept at its native decoder format?

Any answer other than: "When your think to hear a difference use the one option you like better" is welcome ;-)

Thank you!

[hoborg]

You can use some filter management tool to increase LAV Audios merit to something insanely high, maybe it helps.

That was first thing i tried.
Too bad, it didnt help :(

[Superb]

As you say, the *width* is usually stretched, not the height. madVR allows SD content to go up to 1024 pixels wide. Only content which is wider than 1024 pixels (or higher than 576 pixels) is considered "HD" by madVR.I see. Thanks for the explanation.

I just have to say that I'm re-amazed every time when I see how responsive you and nevcairiel are w/ regarding to bug reports, development discussions/choices, and functionality explanations. That is w/o mentioning that you guys develop top notch projects for us to enjoy content watching. THANK YOU GUYS!

[nevcairiel]

Question is: Does Lavfilter/ffmpeg do a reference job with int-> float conversion (when the int decoder output is converted to float for lossless tracks, I always thought this conversion to be practically lossless?!)? Is there any chance Lavfilter introduces jitter/any kind of distortion with this conversion? Is this better handled within the JRiver MC audio engine and the output of Lavfilter kept at its native decoder format?

I would always keep it at the native output format for numerous reasons. The most important probably being that you don't know how your audio engine is converting the float back to int for output, and if those conversions do not match, it might result in different sound.

I do now know what you mean with "reference job". Its a plain and simple conversion, just convert to float, and rescale to the 1.0 - -1.0 scale. No fancy features.
The whole thing is mostly meant to disable formats that are not supported by your hardware and/or filters.


"When your think to hear a difference use the one option you like better"


In the end, thats what it comes down to, isn't it.

[CruNcher]

@nev

http://www.mediafire.com/?5d9r80vb7dis5ft

[nevcairiel]

If the problem also occurs with all ffmpeg tools, its certainly a problem in ffmpeg itself, and you should figure out how to extract a sample that shows the freeze.

[CruNcher]

im open for ideas :D
i try with vlc/vlmc first hoping it wont fix it ;)

ok tried some stuff but nothing works this is also crazy

MP4Box.exe -split-chunk 15:30 "G:\testsuite2\2k-test.mov" -out "G:\testsuite2\Split.mp4"
Adjusting chunk start time to previous random access at 14.40 sec
[iso file] Incomplete box ....
[iso file] Box "minf" has 33 extra bytes
Error cloning track 3


http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3013/quicktimer.png

[hobbs1]

Hi,

here is a test build which, among other things, trys to fix the MP4 A/V sync problem reported.
If you people that watch MP4 files on a regular basis could test this, and report if it improved, or possibly got worse on other files, that would be great.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.37-50-g41ed098.zip

Nev, I just tested the new build with a MP4 file that had not been rendering video with v36 & 37.

Here is that post - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...22#post1529322

The file now plays perfectly with the new build so take that for whatever its worth and the audio sync is perfect.

FWIW, I think the MP4 file that I was trying to view is the problem because all of my other Mp4 files worked perfectly with 36 & 37.

Hope this helps and thanks for the work.

[CruNcher]

I got it it was easier then i thought the issue is propagating nicely into .mp4 as well (uploading) though some ffmpeg apps don't show issues anymore (Avidemux (or is it actually using libav parser?) ) but lavsplitter still freezes also ffplay does also videolan keept it's glitching @ that freeze frame and redos the title show (as it would seamlessly reopen the file) :)

http://www.mediafire.com/?yx92afb8mrn7r3r

PS: remuxing with Avidemux 2.5.5 fixes this freeze :)

Movie name : avidemux.mp4
Writing application : Lavf53.4.0

[rica]

Hi nev,

I've been trying to get wasapi exlusive BITEXACT over ReClock with Lav Filters.

Here is my HW, SW:

GeForce GTX 550 TI on Clarkdale (i3 540/H55)
nVidia driver version: 280.26
TMT5 5.0.1.114, MPC-HC 1.5.3.3757 with LAV Filters v. 0.37, ReClock 1.8.7.7...
Media: Chris Botti Live; the unique 96/24/5.1 PCM source i can find out yet...


Here is how to configure my MPC-HC:

Internal filters: completely disabled while lav fiters are enabled and preferred on external filters section.



Here is the chain on MPC-HC:


http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/8008/graphchain.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/573/graphchain.png/)


And if you notice ReClock only detect WASAPI Exclusive but not bitexact:

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8145/mpcwithlavaudio.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/mpcwithlavaudio.png/)


While it detects Wasapi exclusive[B] bitexact on TMT 5: (I uploaded a BDMV, please create an ISO with ImageBurn and open it on Virtual Clone Drive's fake driver. Otherwise TMT downsamples it to 48/6/16...

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2651/tmt5withlavaudio.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/tmt5withlavaudio.png/)

Here is the sample file:

http://www.mediafire.com/?26z6a1w3lkia68a


Could you have a look at?

EDIT: I've met this issue only with PCM unmolested streaming, no issues with DTS HD or THD bitsreaming.

LATEST EDIT: Fixed:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534340#post1534340


- - - - -

_ _ _ _ _

[Pat357]

TO NEV:
if use last lav Splitter to Splitter mkv .use wavpack for lavaudio or last wavpack-directshow
http://code.google.com/p/wavpack-directshow/
mediaplayer give me not good sound!
test file
http://www.mediafire.com/?62l18m72ztxbmdo
It seems the wavpack codec in ffmeg is somehow broken for files encoded in the so called "hybride" mode.
In this mode wavpack will create 2 files on encoding (.WV + WVC) if it can't encode lossless with the specified bandwidth.
The WV will then be lossy or lossless and if lossy, a WVC is created to make it possible to make the process lossless.
Suppose the WV is lossy, then WV + WVC = lossless.
A very nice concept anyway !

[Ingram]

Does LAVVideo support DXVA with Ati? I'm getting extremely high CPU usage for H264/BR playback but with FFDShow's DXVA I get barely any. I didn't realise until now that LAVVideo was chewing through my CPU until I went to play some 1080P content.

Happy to stick with FFDShow's DXVA if Lav Video is no good for Ati users anymore.

[SamuriHL]

It has never supported DXVA.

[Ingram]

Right well that explains a lot. I figured it did since why wouldn't you want DXVA...

Oh well :)

[Asmodian]

DXVA isn't known for being super easy.

[SamuriHL]

Right well that explains a lot. I figured it did since why wouldn't you want DXVA...

Oh well :)

Oh, you know, to use things like madVR? :)

[noee]

Plus, IIRC, didn't nev or someone find that with LAVCUVID, it bumps the card to full clocks, negating any real power savings? Or was that fixed?

[Keiyakusha]

What is going on lately? First someone screams that subtitles support is broken, when there was no such support ever. Now DXVA... Oo

[rica]

Still seeing subtitles while i'm getting DTS HD - MA bitexact over ReClock using lav filters and i can see the blue light on my AVR's display:

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9241/testcci.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/testcci.png/)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6131/test2q.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/test2q.png/)

_ _ _ __

[Andy o]

It has never supported DXVA.
Wait, I get DXVA when I choose EVR and HW accel in LAV, or is MPC-HC misreporting it?

[Andy o]

Plus, IIRC, didn't nev or someone find that with LAVCUVID, it bumps the card to full clocks, negating any real power savings? Or was that fixed?

It does with my GTX460 but you can tame the clocks with Nvidia Inspector. But power savings are not really the problem, and depending on your setup, DXVA might not even make a difference with CPU decoding, or even consume more.

I have to use CUVID to get good deinterlacing, for instance. My C2Q Q9450 just can't handle it.

[SamuriHL]

Wait, I get DXVA when I choose EVR and HW accel in LAV, or is MPC-HC misreporting it?

MPC-HC is misreporting. If you're using CUVID it's not DXVA....exactly. :D Although I think the deinterlacing stuff uses the DXVA API's if I'm not mistaken. DXVA doesn't (easily) allow you to copy the decoded video frames from the videocard's memory to system memory. That's why madVR doesn't work with it (currently) and why many of us prefer either CUVID if we're running nVidia, or LAV Video software decoding if we're running AMD. MPC-HC, however, loves to misreport DVXA.

[06_taro]

Unpatched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.37-52-git-r1378(68a10a4).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1378)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.37-52-git-r1378(68a10a4)Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1378)

[dead_screem]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8L2S2JLK
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1TF3LWGR

With latest test build these two TSs crash MPC-HC when LAV splitter is used

[mkanet]

I am hoping someone can please help. When my MKV files contain subtitles, the filtergraph created will have an Internal Script Command Renderer. My directshow player doesnt support subtitles; and, has problems (just like graphedit) when it trys to render the mkv (using LAV splitter).

I would like to know which options to select in LAV Splitter to prevent Internal Script Command Renderer from being inserted in the graph. I have selected the option "No subtitles" and other conditions in LAV splitter, but no matter what, LAV splitter allows Internal Script Command Renderer to be loaded. If there are no options in LAV splitter to do this, how else can I do it?

Thanks in advance,
MKANET

[Midzuki]

@ mkanet: until you send us "detailed info" about that problem, I'd rather conclude the "root-of-all-evil" :D is in your "un-named" :) DS player.

To the best of my memory, the "Internal Script Command Renderer" issue only happened to "soft-subbed" RMVB files through the use of RealMediaSplitter.ax :confused:

[nevcairiel]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8L2S2JLK
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1TF3LWGR

With latest test build these two TSs crash MPC-HC when LAV splitter is used

Is that problem new, or did they crash with older versions as well? :)

[Xaurus]

What kind of setup is everyone using when watching SD material? I have recently ripped a few of my old DVDs and with my current setup I would like some noise reduction / block reducing filters to be applied to the video chain. I guess there's no other choice than to install ffdshow again? Thanks.

[hoborg]

I think i found the problem. If i now open WAV with DTS in graphstudio, it create LAV splitter to audio renderer connection, LAV audio decoder is not added.

That is a strange...
Here on WinXP i have correct graph - LAV splitter -> LAV audio decoder -> Audio renderer, home on Win7 LAV audio is missing.

[CruNcher]

@nev
here is the freeze sample http://www.mediafire.com/?yx92afb8mrn7r3r i can fix the freeze in lav splitter by remuxing it with avidemux after remuxing it into .mp4 (as the *.mov crashes avidemux)

[Mr.White]

Hi nev,

I've been trying to get wasapi exlusive BITEXACT over ReClock with Lav Filters.

_ _ _ _ _

It worked for me with Lav Filters (bit exact), but only after i put the volume up to 100% in MPC-HC :)

[VFR maniac]

@nev
here is the freeze sample http://www.mediafire.com/?yx92afb8mrn7r3r i can fix the freeze in lav splitter by remuxing it with avidemux after remuxing it into .mp4 (as the *.mov crashes avidemux)

Don't throw just broken file for bug report :P
That file has negative cts offset even if ctts version == 0.
(It is ok if the file were MOV.)
And the file has two media handler (vide and cios) for video track.
MOV and ISO media can contain only one media handler per track.

Well, I suspect how to handle ctts of ffmpeg.

[mkanet]

It happens in Graphedit, GraphStudio, etc. This happens on any PC I try (Windows 7 and two different Vista PCs. This happens when the system tries to build the graph on an MKV file which contains subtitles (which inserts "Internal Script Command Renderer" automatically. The MKV file will just hang while trying to render the video/audio on MKVs which contain subtitles. If it take out "Internal Script Command Renderer" and play the filter graph, it works perfectly.

This only happens when LAV allows subtitles to come out from it's subtitle pinout. I was hoping for LAV to turn off subtitles completely; as if the MKV doesnt have subtitles. This is to prevent from other filters like "Internal Script Command Renderer" to try to connect to LAV splitter.

Sorry if I'm not being to descriptive. It happens pretty much under every circumstance I can think of if the MKV has a subtitle embedded in the file under graphedit, etc. The issue doesnt happen if there isn't any subtitle in the file or if I manually remove the "Internal Script Command Renderer" filter after the system builds the graph automatically.

Thanks

@ mkanet: until you send us "detailed info" about that problem, I'd rather conclude the "root-of-all-evil" :D is in your "un-named" :) DS player.

To the best of my memory, the "Internal Script Command Renderer" issue only happened to "soft-subbed" RMVB files through the use of RealMediaSplitter.ax :confused:

[nevcairiel]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8L2S2JLK
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1TF3LWGR

With latest test build these two TSs crash MPC-HC when LAV splitter is used

Fixed.

[kennae]

New nVidia WHQL drivers are up! Working great with mpc-hc + lav filters + madvr.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7-winvista-64bit-285.62-whql-driver.html

[nevcairiel]

Hi,

its time to get ready for a release again, so here is a release candidate to hopefully get some more widespread testing.
Sadly there have been quite a lot of bugs in ffmpeg the last week or so, but i hope that i got most of the regressions and its all clean again.

x86: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38-rc.zip
x64: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38-rc-x64.zip

Most important changes since 0.37:
- New subtitle stream selection
- Improved stream language handling (f.ex. languages with two language tags are now handled propery, ie. "fra" now matches both "fre" and "fra")
- MPEG1 Multi-Threading and CUVID support (tied to the MPEG2 option)
- Improved VobSub support in MPEG-PS and MP4
- Improved RV40 in MKV playback
- Support for Ut Video and H264 4:2:2
- Improved MP4 A/V sync

Please test this version, and report any regressions since 0.37, or bugs in the new features, thanks!

PS:
I wrote up a small explanation of the new subtitle selection modes:
http://1f0.de/lav-splitter/lav-splitter-stream-selection/

[sneaker_ger]

Thx,
1.) can you elaborate on your decision to make the advanced mode subtitle only? Is this because it is unnecessary because you still have an active audio field? (I'm currently trying to wrap my head around it.)
2.) The subtitle field is very short for the amount of selections possible.

[nevcairiel]

I just cannot think of a reason to select the audio through that field as well. For someone not coming from Haalis config option there (like me), it seems just far easier to understand this way. Also, rules might get overly complex if you also have to account for every audio preference.

For the field size - if you have that many rules, write them in an editor first. :D You can easily fit 6 pairs in there, even 7 if you use a * or no flags once a while - that seems like alot of rules to me.

[sneaker_ger]

I just cannot think of a reason to select the audio through that field as well. For someone not coming from Haalis config option there (like me), it seems just far easier to understand this way. Also, rules might get overly complex if you also have to account for every audio preference.

Just wondering, still haven't understood it completely.

For the field size - if you have that many rules, write them in an editor first. :D You can easily fit 6 pairs in there, even 7 if you use a * or no flags once a while - that seems like alot of rules to me.

Yes, it seems like I rushed that a bit and will be able to get by with the space given.

3.) in mkv "|f" only refers to the mkv forced element and not to the string "forced" being part of the subtitle name, correct?

[CruNcher]

Don't throw just broken file for bug report :P
That file has negative cts offset even if ctts version == 0.
(It is ok if the file were MOV.)
And the file has two media handler (vide and cios) for video track.
MOV and ISO media can contain only one media handler per track.

Well, I suspect how to handle ctts of ffmpeg.

But that is the whole problem it also freezes with the Original Quicktime Movie
that is not the file we talking about i tried to make a sample of the .mov but that is not easy @ all and this is the closest i came up with to keep the issue alive in .mp4 :)
Hmm i dunno how their can be 2 media handlers the only thing i did was remuxed the original .mov into mp4 with mp4box and then used mp4box on the resulting .mp4 convert to cut the sample out. And as i said if i remux it with Avidemux the freeze is gone in the .mp4 im not sure about sync issues as it's hardly visible in this kind of content (but that freeze with lav splitter is gone).

VFR maniac here you can see how different parser react on the Original Mov
http://www.mediafire.com/?5d9r80vb7dis5ft

top is lav splitter, bellow vlc and bottom right is mpc-hcs internal mov/mp4 splitter, lav splitter loses it's entire seeking capability behind this freeze (anything after it doesn't exist for it).

[Thunderbolt8]

MPEG1 Multi-Threading and CUVID support (tied to the MPEG2 option)does MPEG1 really need that much ressources?

[Keiyakusha]

does MPEG1 really need that much ressources?
The main thing - it works.

BTW, what about mpeg4/ASP?

[Thunderbolt8]

Im just a little said that now even ancient mpeg1 got multithreading support, but VC-1 still does not -.-
(guessing mpeg1 was rather easy to implement though)

btw. how to get the test versions (RC) to work. I overwrote the 0.37 files, did 3x unregister.bat, then 3x install.bat, also set all 3 external filters to prefer in mpc-hc, but when I play an .mkv, haali splitter shows up

[golagoda]

Im just a little said that now even ancient mpeg1 got multithreading support, but VC-1 still does not -.-
(guessing mpeg1 was rather easy to implement though)

btw. how to get the test versions (RC) to work. I overwrote the 0.37 files, did 3x unregister.bat, then 3x install.bat, also set all 3 external filters to prefer in mpc-hc, but when I play an .mkv, haali splitter shows up

In MPC-HC go to external filters then add haali splitter then set it to block.


Hi,

its time to get ready for a release again, so here is a release candidate to hopefully get some more widespread testing.
Sadly there have been quite a lot of bugs in ffmpeg the last week or so, but i hope that i got most of the regressions and its all clean again.

x86: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38-rc.zip
x64: http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38-rc-x64.zip
[...]

Please test this version, and report any regressions since 0.37, or bugs in the new features, thanks!

PS:
I wrote up a small explanation of the new subtitle selection modes:
http://1f0.de/lav-splitter/lav-splitter-stream-selection/


Thanks Nev - I'll test it out, I've been trying the latest google code builds people have been posting sometimes and they've gone great at least, thanks again.

[mindbomb]

Im just a little said that now even ancient mpeg1 got multithreading support, but VC-1 still does not -.-

yea, now that i think about it, that is messed up.

and at the very least, they have to add support for interlaced videos.

[pankov]

nev,
I've read the guide about the new subtitle selection modes and I have a question.
You've written in the examples for the advanced mode that this expression *:eng;*:*|f;*:*|d is representing the default mode (with "eng" selected).
Am I correct that this should read as "for any audio language show eng subs and if none are found show any forced one and if no forced ones are found show a default one"?
If that's the case wouldn't it better to show only forced English subs with English audio and full English subs with all other audio languages?
This should result in the following expression:
eng:eng|f;*:eng;*:*|f;*:*d
What do you think? Isn't this more convenient for the novice users using the Default mode?
I also think this could make the "Only forced subs" mode obsolete, right?

[mindbomb]

extremely minor thing:

you forgot to change where it says the version number to .38. it still says .37 in the various filters.

[06_taro]

Patched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.37-54-git-r1380(be78b9e).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1380)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.37-54-git-r1380(be78b9e)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1380)

I hadn't met rv30/rv40's seek problem for long so didn't apply roytam1's patch in the last several builds. But now I reproduced it and therefore add it back.

PS. latest git revision, might be called 0.38 rc :)

[roytam1]

Patched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.37-54-git-r1380(be78b9e).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1380)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.37-54-git-r1380(be78b9e)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1380)

I hadn't met rv30/rv40's seek problem for long so didn't apply roytam1's patch in the last several builds. But now I reproduced it and therefore add it back.

PS. latest git revision, might be called 0.38 rc :)

the rv3/4 seeking bug is easy to reproduce: open a rmvb file, play, and seek to other position. Without the patch it will give you a corrupted image until next key frame is shown.

[board123]

I'm having trouble getting LAV to output the same colors as ffdshow/ffmpeg.

LAV output (http://i.imgur.com/Szb4D.jpg)
FFDShow output (http://i.imgur.com/1OxRz.jpg)

I got these screenshots with MPC-HC/EVR Custom. This is an 8-bit H264 video clip, so the input YCbCr should be 16-235 range.

Both decoders are set to output RGB 0-255 range, but LAV's output differs drastically from FFDshow's, which is the correct output. Any help in configuring LAV properly would be appreciated.

[Sebastiii]

Good Job Nev :)
Thanks :)

[06_taro]

the rv3/4 seeking bug is easy to reproduce: open a rmvb file, play, and seek to other position. Without the patch it will give you a corrupted image until next key frame is shown.

I had very few rv videos and tried those files without finding corrupted image when seeking in the last week. Today I encoded some by myself to test and most of them break....

[nevcairiel]

I'm having trouble getting LAV to output the same colors as ffdshow/ffmpeg.

LAV output (http://i.imgur.com/Szb4D.jpg)
FFDShow output (http://i.imgur.com/1OxRz.jpg)

I got these screenshots with MPC-HC/EVR Custom. This is an 8-bit H264 video clip, so the input YCbCr should be 16-235 range.

Both decoders are set to output RGB 0-255 range, but LAV's output differs drastically from FFDshow's, which is the correct output. Any help in configuring LAV properly would be appreciated.

Just to make sure:
- You disabled all other output formats, only RGB32 is active (in both LAV and ffdshow)?
- In ffdshow, all "input" values are set to "Auto", no matrix or levels forced?
- In fdshow, "High Quality YV12 to RGB conversion" is checked?

If thats the case, output should be pretty similar, as the algorithm used is basically the same.
If nothing helps, cut a small sample that shows the difference.

FWIW, personally i think the LAV screenshot looks better. :p

PS:
Also try with the release candidate posted a few posts above yours.

[nevcairiel]

Im just a little said that now even ancient mpeg1 got multithreading support, but VC-1 still does not

MPEG1 is very similar to MPEG2, so the code is really the same.

VC-1 interlaced support is being worked on, however its still very unstable/buggy.


What do you think? Isn't this more convenient for the novice users using the Default mode?
I also think this could make the "Only forced subs" mode obsolete, right?

The "Default" mode resembles the behavior of Haali's Splitter as well as some other non-DirectShow players, and is what alot of people seem to expect to happen.
For anything else, there is the advanced mode, no one default config will make everyone happy.

[Chillgurke]

Why isn´t a installer aviable ?

[pankov]

The "Default" mode resembles the behavior of Haali's Splitter as well as some other non-DirectShow players, and is what some people do expect to happen.
For anything else, there is the advanced mode, no one default config will make everyone happy.
OK
I was just trying to suggest an improvement (from my point of view).
I can always use the advanced mode.
Thank you very much for making it.
:)
I have a question though. In the following scenario what should happen?
I play a movie that has English and French (and a few other audio tracks) and has English and many more subs. In fact it's the AVATAR Blu-ray disk released for EEE.
I've configured LAV Splitter as the image bellow (Audio: eng,bul Subtitles: eng:eng|f;*:eng;*:*|f;*:*d (Advanced mode))
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/736/lavsplitterconfig.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/lavsplitterconfig.png/)
Everything works correctly and LAV Splitter automatically selects the best English audio track (dts-hd ma) and shows only the forced subs, but when I change to French audio (Using the Stream selection menu in Zoom Player) I'm still left with only the English forced subs (it doesn't switch to full English subs). Am I expecting too much from LAV Splitter? Is the subs logic only working when playback starts? .... as I write this I'm pretty sure what the answer will be but still it's better to ask than guess. ;)

btw
I've also tried the Star Wars saga Blu-ray discs (Episode I to be precise) and strangely I couldn't make LAV Splitter output only the forced subtitles. It was either showing full eng subs or none at all. Am I doing something wrong or this PGS subs are really bad to find the forced flag in them? It's working fine in TMT 5.
The scene which I've used for testing is around 00:31:42 (chapter 14).

[rahzel]

Hi nev,

When I play Transformers Dark of the Moon (7.1 TrueHD) on my HTPC, it only plays 5.1 TrueHD. It reads the track as 8ch but my AVR only shows 6ch. This is the only 8ch TrueHD track I have (8ch DTS-HD MA plays fine).

Using 0.37.

[nevcairiel]

Everything works correctly and LAV Splitter automatically selects the best English audio track (dts-hd ma) and shows only the forced subs, but when I change to French audio (Using the Stream selection menu in Zoom Player) I'm still left with only the English forced subs (it doesn't switch to full English subs). Am I expecting too much from LAV Splitter? Is the subs logic only working when playback starts? .... as I write this I'm pretty sure what the answer will be but still it's better to ask than guess. ;)

As you guessed, the whole logic is only for pre-selection of streams, once playback started its all left to the user to change streams.

PS:
Your tokens might not do what you expect them to do. "eng:eng|f;*:eng" will prefer english forced subs, but if none are present it will go to the second rule and match any subs. If you don't want any other subs for english audio, you need to insert a "eng:off" rule in between. BTW, your last rule is missing a |


I've also tried the Star Wars saga Blu-ray discs (Episode I to be precise) and strangely I couldn't make LAV Splitter output only the forced subtitles. It was either showing full eng subs or none at all. Am I doing something wrong or this PGS subs are really bad to find the forced flag in them? It's working fine in TMT 5.

There is basically two ways to do PGS forced subtitles, and only one of those properly works with LAV Splitter.
Avatar is using the first - the forced subtitles are mixed with the normal subtitles into the main subtitle stream. LAV Splitter can detect them and filter them out.
Star Wars is using the second - the forced subtitles are using a dedicated stream. Sadly, its not possible to auto-detect this at all right now, which stream is the right one is hidden deep into the BD menu logic (which is also the reason TMT5 works, it supports the Menu).

When I play Transformers Dark of the Moon (7.1 TrueHD) on my HTPC, it only plays 5.1 TrueHD. It reads the track as 8ch but my AVR only shows 6ch. This is the only 8ch TrueHD track I have (8ch DTS-HD MA plays fine).

I have no influence on how your AVR treats the streams.

[pankov]

As you guessed, the whole logic is only for pre-selection of streams, once playback started its all left to the user to change streams.
Fair enough
:)


There is basically two ways to do PGS forced subtitles, and only one of those properly works with LAV Splitter.
Avatar is using the first - the forced subtitles are mixed with the normal subtitles into the main subtitle stream. LAV Splitter can detect them and filter them out.
Star Wars is using the second - the forced subtitles are using a dedicated stream. Sadly, its not possible to auto-detect this at all right now, which stream is the right one is hidden deep into the BD menu logic (which is also the reason TMT5 works, it supports the Menu).
:(
That's sad.
I hope you'll be able to find a solution in future

[rahzel]

Hmm, weird... maybe my AVR has issues with 8ch TrueHD then.

[kirakami]

is it only me or LAV don't have tray icons yet?
using lav 0.37

[CruNcher]

@VFR Maniac
and yes not many parser parse this .mov (same for the .mp4 sample) @ all (most probably because of the issue with the 2 video track handler ids they only find the audio track Haali is one of them) i found only some parser (including Apples own) so far that can actually split this (.mov) though lav splitter (and so many ffmpeg based stuff) is the only one of those few failing with that freeze and seek issue @ playback currently and that seems to be ffmpeg dependent.
And yeah the most probably propagation of this (via mp4box) made the .mp4 corrupt and so it's also failing with for example Haali to be split correctly and the Avidemux remuxed one seems in the muxing this 2nd video track handler was eliminated (also Microsofts splitter has problems no thumbnail creation for this 2 track handler id .mp4, and WMP12 as well fails to parse the Video) that "fixed" one (eliminated the 2nd video handler and corrected timestamping in the remux i guess). parses correctly with Haali though crashes @ playback but doesn't freeze anymore (Microsofts Parser is now also happy in creating a thumbnail, and WMP12 also plays it back without freezing) with lav splitter (very nice what Avidemux did with the propagated *.mov issues it completely eliminated them :) )

General
Complete name : G:\testsuite2\2k-test.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 1.25 GiB
Duration : 3mn 51s
Overall bit rate : 46.3 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:03:56
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:04:40
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
Media/UUID :

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=2, N=24
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 3mn 51s
Bit rate : 46.0 Mbps
Width : 2 048 pixels
Height : 1 024 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.000
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.877
Stream size : 1.24 GiB (99%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:03:55
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:04:40
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio
ID : 3
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 3mn 51s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 7.19 MiB (1%)
Title : Apple lydmediehŒndterer
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:03:55
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:04:40

Menu
ID : 2
Title : TidskodemediehŒndterer
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:03:55
Tagged date : UTC 2009-01-14 15:04:40
Duration_LastFrame : 80
Bit rate mode : CBR

[VFR maniac]

@ CruNcher

Dump of MediaInfo is useless if it is a problem of container format.
Use other dumpers specialized for MOV/MP4 container format, such as Atomic Parsley, Dumpster, Atom Inspector etc.
I recommend you use boxdumper of L-SMASH (http://www.nmm-hd.org/newbbs/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=361) or Atom Inspector.

[SamuriHL]

is it only me or LAV don't have tray icons yet?
using lav 0.37

And why would you expect them? Nev hasn't implemented them. No changelist suggests otherwise. :confused:

[nevcairiel]

That seems to be a theme lately, people expecting features that never were added.
Either that, or the 5 day waiting period isn't long enough anymore. ;)

[SamuriHL]

Kinda seems that way doesn't it? I don't get it. Do people not read anymore?

[pirlouy]

I also though they would be some tray icons soon, after this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1528411#post1528411)! :D
Yes, you can't prevent people from being impatient; at least that means they're interested. :)

By the way, maybe tray icons are not necessary and it's a lack of MPC-HC...

[SamuriHL]

Adding icons is not the same as adding the functionality to use them. ;)

[Keiyakusha]

Kinda seems that way doesn't it? I don't get it. Do people not read anymore?

The worst thing is, some people seem to believe that they actually use these features, until the point when they was told that such features don't exist...

[SamuriHL]

The worst thing is, some people seem to believe that they actually use these features, until the point when they was told that such features don't exist...

It's very strange. Hence why I'm :confused: I guess. :)

[nevcairiel]

Maybe we shouldn't tell them then, that way they are happy, and i don't get odd feature requests. :)

[SamuriHL]

ROFLMAO! :) That's one solution, but, others of us like to know _*POTENTIAL*_ future plans with the understanding that, A) Things change and B) *FUTURE* plans.

[hoborg]

That is a strange...
Here on WinXP i have correct graph - LAV splitter -> LAV audio decoder -> Audio renderer, home on Win7 LAV audio is missing.
BTW, i was able to make it working on Win7.
I must remove "{00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}"="{0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}" key from DirectShow Preferred registry key.
Now DS add LAV audio decoder to graph and it is working just fine :)

[Andy o]

Bah, the new "WHQL" (which means something about "hadware quality" testing) 285.62 drivers is giving me a black screen on Media Center, and it seems it's a common theme, from googling. Back to 285.38 BETA.

[nevcairiel]

No issues with them whatsoever, behaviour with madVR even improved some.

[rica]

Hi nev,

I've been trying to get wasapi exlusive BITEXACT over ReClock with Lav Filters.

Here is my HW, SW:

GeForce GTX 550 TI on Clarkdale (i3 540/H55)
nVidia driver version: 280.26
TMT5 5.0.1.114, MPC-HC 1.5.3.3757 with LAV Filters v. 0.37, ReClock 1.8.7.7...
Media: Chris Botti Live; the unique 96/24/5.1 PCM source i can find out yet...


Here is how to configure my MPC-HC:

Internal filters: completely disabled while lav fiters are enabled and preferred on external filters section.



Here is the chain on MPC-HC:


http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/8008/graphchain.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/573/graphchain.png/)


And if you notice ReClock only detect WASAPI Exclusive but not bitexact:

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8145/mpcwithlavaudio.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/mpcwithlavaudio.png/)


While it detects Wasapi exclusive[B] bitexact on TMT 5: (I uploaded a BDMV, please create an ISO with ImageBurn and open it on Virtual Clone Drive's fake driver. Otherwise TMT downsamples it to 48/6/16...

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2651/tmt5withlavaudio.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/tmt5withlavaudio.png/)

Here is the sample file:

http://www.mediafire.com/?26z6a1w3lkia68a


Could you have a look at?

EDIT: I've met this issue only with PCM unmolested streaming, no issues with DTS HD or THD bitsreaming.

LATEST EDIT: Fixed:

[url]http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534340#post1534340[/url

_ _ _ _ _



FYI:

I've explored i have no issues with bitexact streaming of 96/24 PCM via GraphStuff:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1787/0002e.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/0002e.png/)


On the other hand same graph chain running behind MPC-HC svn 3757 gave only wasapi exlusive (non-bitexact) in anyhow:



http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1165/0004g.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/0004g.png/)

Dunno why????


I uninstalled MPC-HC 1.5.3.3757 and loaded official 1.5.2.3456 and fixed the issue. Now i can passthrough bitexact PCM streams over MPC-HC too.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/209/0005s.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/0005s.png/)





EDIT: Fixed:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534340#post1534340

_ _ ____

[SamuriHL]

Man, rica, smaller pics! :) That's impossible to view. LOL

[rica]

Man, rica, smaller pics! :) That's impossible to view. LOL

Next time my friend, promise :)

[SamuriHL]

Next time my friend, promise :)

Excellent. :)

[Andy o]

No issues with them whatsoever, behaviour with madVR even improved some.

Probably some cards. Googling gets too many specific results for it to be just me, but also it's not happening in my 9200m GS laptop.

[SamuriHL]

Probably some cards. Googling gets too many specific results for it to be just me, but also it's not happening in my 9200m GS laptop.

Just got reported on the nVidia GeForce GTX thread on AVS Forum, as well. Not sure what you guys have in common. I'm about to go mess with my machine now and see how it fairs. I have a 450, the same as Nev, so, I'm not expecting a lot of problems.

[JustinChase]

Probably some cards. Googling gets too many specific results for it to be just me, but also it's not happening in my 9200m GS laptop.

GeForce 550Ti with the new drivers gives black screen in WMC for live and recorded TV playback. I tried "fixing" it over lunch, but will end up rolling back the driver when I get home :(

I suppose I need to figure out how to just force WMC to just use LAV filters instead ???

[Andy o]

I've played the videos in MPC-HC and it loads a lot of extra filters for the wtv files, and there's one pin that doesn't connect but I don't know what it's for (probably captions). Surprisingly 1080i content from CBS working like a charm with LAV video doing IVTC and ffdshow/avisynth doing decimation. One weird thing is that madVR doesn't obey my manual "23p" instruction in the file name so it doesn't switch automatically.

[06_taro]

Patched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.37-55-git-r1381(28d1c5d).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1381)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.37-55-git-r1381(28d1c5d)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1381)

Now support mkv's subchapter

[rica]

Amd/Ati users and Intel Clarkdale/Sandy users.
Are you able to get audio bitexact streaming via lav splitter > Lav Audio > ReClock?

[Mixer73]

GeForce 550Ti with the new drivers gives black screen in WMC for live and recorded TV playback. I tried "fixing" it over lunch, but will end up rolling back the driver when I get home :(

So what's default renderer for 7MC?

[SamuriHL]

So what's default renderer for 7MC?

Buggy. :D

[JustinChase]

I'm not really sure, and didn't much care before today :) Wife prefers it for TV, and cares little about quality, just ease of use.

I just downloaded, and am about to install 285.38 64bit beta drivers, but wondered if there is a preferred driver version for one reason or another? I just installed my first nVidia card in over 15 years, so haven't paid any attention before last week :)

[CruNcher]

@VFR Maniac

here is the boxdump dump of the original .mov http://www.mediafire.com/?rjyu1qx150vmtdm :)
here the timestamps http://www.mediafire.com/?mux0yusebvc7em5

[asasadad_1]

some ts files include 2 video tracks and 2 audio tracks，LAV Splitter（Git_28d1c5d47e9b） shows only 1 video track and 1 audio track.
here (http://uploading.com/files/ee7a392a/2video.2audio.ts/) is a sample.

[Sebastiii]

Patched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.37-55-git-r1381(28d1c5d).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1381)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.37-55-git-r1381(28d1c5d)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1381)

Now support mkv's subchapter

Hi,

What do you mean by subchapter ?
Do you have a sample for testing ?
Thanks.

[golagoda]

Hi,

What do you mean by subchapter ?
Do you have a sample for testing ?
Thanks.

I would assume he means ordered chapters.

[sneaker_ger]

I would assume he means ordered chapters.

As much as I wish that to be true, he is probably talking about "sub" as in "nested".

[06_taro]

Subchapter means chapters nested in other chapters. You can easily produce this kind of chapter in mmg. Ordered chapter is just virtual timeline.

Here's a sample mkv using subchapter ( played with Gabest splitter ):
http://i42.tinypic.com/vmrc09.jpg

@nevcairiel
Could you please make the nested subchapters indented by a blank or "+" just like above, so that the chapter structure would be more clear?

[Sebastiii]

Ok :) so it's not Ordered Chapter but it's nice feature (subchapter)

[Qaq]

Amd/Ati users and Intel Clarkdale/Sandy users.
Are you able to get audio bitexact streaming via lav splitter > Lav Audio > ReClock?
I don't use "bitexact" for video, but play a music sometime. Yes, via MPC/LAV/ReClock/KS and "bit exact". Just double check the volume slider in MPC.

[CruNcher]

some ts files include 2 video tracks and 2 audio tracks，LAV Splitter（Git_28d1c5d47e9b） shows only 1 video track and 1 audio track.
here (http://uploading.com/files/ee7a392a/2video.2audio.ts/) is a sample.

Programm selection isn't yet supported

[VFR maniac]

@VFR Maniac

here is the boxdump dump of the original .mov http://www.mediafire.com/?rjyu1qx150vmtdm :)
here the timestamps http://www.mediafire.com/?mux0yusebvc7em5

Your problematic MOV has two sample description entries for video track.
Parsing multiple sample description entries is not supported by ffmpeg/libav yet.
So, I guess the issue is the ffmpeg or libav's side.
Watches pelcome!

[CruNcher]

@VFR Maniac
My understanding was this could explain some parser (especially harsh ISO standard conform ones) in failing to find the correct Video bitstream but does that also explain the Lav Splitter freeze (ffmpeg) ?

[nx6]

Ok :) so it's not Ordered Chapter but it's nice feature (subchapter)
Ordered Chapters support would be infinitely more useful. It's the one reason I still need Haali's splitter at this point.

[VFR maniac]

@ CruNcher
Sample description is basically needed to decode bitstream.
Especially for AVC, it is mandatory since SPS/PPS is stored in sample description entries and not stored in video elemental streams.
Your problematic MOV has two sample description entries for different levels (5.0 and 4.1).
So without both, no AVC bitstream is decoded correctly.

[THX-UltraII]

I just sold my ATI 5450 and bought a GTX 460 specially to be able to use CUVID.

A few setup questions:

1.
In the LAV Video filters config I can select the algorithm. If you only watch 23,976HD movies, isnt it better to choose Weave? What is Adaptive, never heard of it (noobish I think:))

2.
Mode
Can the standard Video 50p/60p option not be used for 23,976HD material?

3.
Field Order
When would I NOT want to use the auto option here?

Thanks!

[bjd]

@rica

I uninstalled MPC-HC 1.5.3.3757 and loaded official 1.5.2.3456 and fixed the issue. Now i can passthrough bitexact PCM streams over MPC-HC too.

When trying to achieve PCM bit-exact playback in reclock, the volume in mpc-hc must be set to 100%, anything less and the '(bit-exact)' disappears ;)

[nevcairiel]

1.
In the LAV Video filters config I can select the algorithm. If you only watch 23,976HD movies, isnt it better to choose Weave? What is Adaptive, never heard of it (noobish I think:))

If you only watch 23.976 progressive material, it doesn't matter. If a frame is flagged progressive, that mode is ignored - its only useful for interlaced.


2.
Mode
Can the standard Video 50p/60p option not be used for 23,976HD material?

Same rules apply as above, its ignored for progressive, only used for interlaced. There is no interlaced 23.976 - its either 25i/50i or 30i/60i.


3.
Field Order
When would I NOT want to use the auto option here?
!
Again, that option is only valid for interlaced content.
"Auto" is usually the best mode, however some files are encoded wrong, and this option allows you to fix it manually.

[THX-UltraII]

thxz for your reply. Are there also any madVR users out here?

Because I just sold my ATI HD5450 and bought a NVIDIA GTX 460 card to be able to use CUVID in LAV Video decoder.

First thing I just noticed is that madVR reports a display refrash rate of 23,971xx (NVIDIA 23Hz setting) while madVR reported a display rate of 23,975xx which is far more close to EXACTLY 23,976 which it should be ideally.

Do you guys also get 23,971xx reported by madVR and if so, will this result in far more dropped frames during a movie? With my ATI 5450 I got about 1-3 dropped frames during a 2-3 hour movie which was pretty satisfying to me.

[robpdotcom]

I recently switched from an ATI 5750 to an NVIDIA GTS450, and my ATI came closer to 23.976 as well (though, still not close enough). The easiest solution is to just use Reclock, and go with 24hz, which both cards come much closer to.

[daWsOn_s]

I just found this amazing thing. It finally does what ffdshow was never able to do, playback dts hd ma and vc1 in m2ts containers :D just a quick question will this ever support tray icons (to see what splitter/filter I'm using) and audio normalization? For example when I playback 5.1 source in ffdshow I put audio normalization + stereo output (for headphones) and the audio is much louder while not distorted. I couldn't find a way using LAV audio decoder

[Andy o]

Nev, I've been wondering something similar to this:

2.
Mode
Can the standard Video 50p/60p option not be used for 23,976HD material?

My question is if LAV can tell if the content is being IVTC'd instead of being deinterlaced, and if so, set its output to 30p instead so proper decimation can be done? Right now I have to manually change to 30p and enable avisynth in ffdshow's processor, and then change them back when I'm done, for interlaced telecined content.

[nevcairiel]

My question is if LAV can tell if the content is being IVTC'd instead of being deinterlaced, and if so, set its output to 30p instead so proper decimation can be done? Right now I have to manually change to 30p and enable avisynth in ffdshow's processor, and then change them back when I'm done, for interlaced telecined content.

If it could, it could also IVTC itself. :P

[THX-UltraII]

I recently switched from an ATI 5750 to an NVIDIA GTS450, and my ATI came closer to 23.976 as well (though, still not close enough). The easiest solution is to just use Reclock, and go with 24hz, which both cards come much closer to.

thanks for your reply.

But ReClock has no sense (/will make no difference) when I only bitstream correct?

[Andy o]

If it could, it could also IVTC itself. :P

I'm confused. Doesn't it IVTC already? By which I mean it doesn't deinterlace and mix two fields into a 30p stream, but instead reconstructs the frames into 30p, which then has to be decimated into 24p. That seems to be the way it's working.

[madshi]

I'm confused. Doesn't it IVTC already? By which I mean it doesn't deinterlace and mix two fields into a 30p stream, but instead reconstructs the frames into 30p, which then has to be decimated into 24p. That seems to be the way it's working.
What is "it"? LAV Video Decoder? GPU? The GPU does proper IVTC, but it keeps it secret which fields were weaved together how, and it also doesn't support decimating. So in the end LAV Video Decoder has no way of knowing whether the video is native interlaced or movie content. The deinterlacing hardware of the GPU is a black box and doesn't deliver any information outside.

[Andy o]

"it" was LAV CUVID. Anyway, yeah that was what I was asking, thanks.

[rica]

Thanks guys, it's clear now:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534340#post1534340


_ _ _ _

[Xaurus]

nev,

I don't know if you remember there was audio drop-out a while back when I tried LAV audio earlier when using ffdshow (see this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1529442#post1529442)). Difference from back then is that now it was a "simple" AVC file in an mkv container. Now AC3, unlike in the blu-ray earlier which had DTS.

For a long time now since permanently switching to full LAV suite after buying an AVR, it's been fine, no audio drop-outs. Until this evening. I had no choice but to enable bitstream and disable reclock.
I suspect that the problem is reclock though. I see that the 1.8.7.7 has been out for a long time, is the author not actively developing it anymore? In any case, my thoughts on this are these:

1: If it's reclock's fault then one should see more issues about this.
2: If it's lav audio's fault then there should be more posts about it in here.

So I have no clue. I'll use bitstream a while now though to see if it works OK unless there is a logging function I can activate in case it happens again?

[linzki]

I'm using mpc-hc with lav filters, madvr, ffdshow raw video filter.

Is there a way to check my frame rate? because i'm not sure if anything happens with LAV video decoders deinterlacing 25p/30p or 50p/60p. Nothing seems to change when i switch between those two options.

Then if i use ffdshow with yadif's deinterlacing double framerate, i can hear fan picking up speed immediately and if i use zoom players playing information, i can see actual frame rate doubleing.

i tried ctrl+j in mpc-hc but can't see it telling me if framerate is doubeling; nothin changes if i switch between 25p/30p or 50p/60p in LAV video decoder.

i'm using GF 460 gtx, Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q6600, 4gb ddr3

[pankov]

Xaurus,
if you upload a sample showing the problem someone else can try to replicated it and this will help nev to check if it's actually an error in LAV Audio.
If you don't give nev enough information he won't be able to help you.

[06_taro]

Patched builds (x86 and x64) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.37-58-git-r1384(ee20a52).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1384)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.37-58-git-r1384(ee20a52)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1384)

[Xaurus]

Xaurus,
if you upload a sample showing the problem someone else can try to replicated it and this will help nev to check if it's actually an error in LAV Audio.
If you don't give nev enough information he won't be able to help you.
The problem is that it seems random. Last time it was a BR, this time it's an mkv.

I can't really give more information than I've already given since I can't reproduce it at will... I don't expect any fixes based on what I've written, it was intended as a heads up.

Thanks.

[Snowknight26]

The "PC (0-255)" label overlaps "Untouched (as input)" in the video decoder properties panel.

[fastplayer]

The "PC (0-255)" label overlaps "Untouched (as input)" in the video decoder properties panel.
True for 0.37, not true for 0.38 RC.

[nevcairiel]

Yeah i fixed that a while ago.

[Snowknight26]

Figures. ;)

Any plans for V210/UYVY support?

[nevcairiel]

I don't know what you mean by that exactly.

LAV Video already supports UYVY output, since its just swaped YUY2. V210 output will most likely not be implemented, because P210 is just the nicer format.

If you mean playback of files with raw V210/UYVY video, that should also work already, but it does require a renderer or post-processor which would accept those formats (UYVY should work with most, V210 no idea)

[Snowknight26]

I did indeed mean raw V210/UYVY support. I haven't tried UYVY but V210 definitely doesn't work, but its a minor inconvenience so don't feel obliged to even look into it, hah.

[nevcairiel]

I don't think any renderer supports V210 input. madVR might, but i don't know for sure.
Without a renderer to accept the image, it wont connect to anything.

[madshi]

madVR does accept "v210", but not "V210".

[Volfield]

Matroska Sub-chapter: On some files works but PotPlayer and MPCHC doesn't show any chapters. On another files i doesn't work (missing chapter from a diffrent file)

[nevcairiel]

Why, oh why do people always assume so much? (and more importantly, the wrong things?)
You talk about chapters and Matroska, and they think about ordered chapters.

"Sub" chapters, or more appropriately, nested chapters are nothing special. All they allow you is to have a neat little tree of chapters, instead of only a list.

[matthew_eli]

Hello guys,

I've problem seeing this video with MPC-HC and lav filters:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810179899/video/27082832 (please, select 1080p theatrical trailer of October 27th)

If I use lav filters for split it, then it stucks at around 15 sec; otherwise, if I use internal MPC-HC all works well. I renamed the file with either .hdmov or .mp4 extension, but the problem still persist. :confused:

[fastplayer]

Confirmed with latest build from trunk.
Here's a proper download link (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sid=128114687&sdm=web&pt=rd) (right-click --> Save as...). 720p (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sid=128114686&sdm=web&pt=rd) version plays fine.

[rica]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534720#post1534720

[Shark007]

A small bug: the x64 video decoder formats read and write to LAV instead of LAV64 in the registry.

[nevcairiel]

A small bug: the x64 video decoder formats read and write to LAV instead of LAV64 in the registry.

Thats not a bug, its meant to share the same configuration.

[Shark007]

Thats not a bug, its meant to share the same configuration.

In this case, I request a feature.
Please allow ALL settings to be separately controlled according to the platform they support.

[Mercury_22]

In this case, I request a feature.
Please allow ALL settings to be separately controlled according to the platform they support.
Already requested Small request :) can you please, please ... separate the settings for x86 and x64 versions
but it seems that nev it's not "keen on" separate settings nor separate location for the x64 version :p

[nevcairiel]

I just don't get why it would be important. I would want my media player configuration to be the same, no matter if i use the 32-bit or 64-bit version. Why would i want different configurations there?
Also, why would i want to run both at the same time? Usually you just decide on 32 or 64bit, and go with that.

[CruNcher]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1534773&postcount=15

Hello guys,

I've problem seeing this video with MPC-HC and lav filters:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810179899/video/27082832 (please, select 1080p theatrical trailer of October 27th)

If I use lav filters for split it, then it stucks at around 15 sec; otherwise, if I use internal MPC-HC all works well. I renamed the file with either .hdmov or .mp4 extension, but the problem still persist. :confused:

Confirmed with latest build from trunk.
Here's a proper download link (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sid=128114687&sdm=web&pt=rd) (right-click --> Save as...). 720p (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sid=128114686&sdm=web&pt=rd) version plays fine.



more reports now flying in might be the same issue (confirmed it is the exact same behavior pattern), it always happens @ cut (concatenate) points in editing (most probably finalcut) that must have a reason, though this is a generic ffmpeg parser issue and needs to be reported also other parser have problems with this (hickup @ the concatenate cut point).

Reference Video of the issue: http://www.mediafire.com/?5d9r80vb7dis5ft (different parser reactions 3 so far freeze, hickup and work)

PS: Im pretty sure that remuxing also this file with Avidemux (or maybe another remuxer didn't test that many yet) is gonna fix the freeze as well (workaround the parser problem by remuxing, though mp4box seems not suited as it propagates the issue over).

[Shark007]

I just don't get why it would be important. I would want my media player configuration to be the same, no matter if i use the 32-bit or 64-bit version. Why would i want different configurations there?
Also, why would i want to run both at the same time? Usually you just decide on 32 or 64bit, and go with that.

Dec 11, 2007 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120465&highlight=separate+x64&page=136), ffdshow devs agree that separating the settings is the right thing to do.

[nevcairiel]

If you think a decision by the ffdshow devs would make me change my mind, you should realize that me and the ffdshow devs don't agree on many things. :P

[Shark007]

If you think a decision by the ffdshow devs would make me change my mind, you should realize that me and the ffdshow devs don't agree on many things. :P

The link I supplied states the argument
Because in some instances, I'd want to apply some settings to one build but not the other (e.g. I prefer to use CoreAVC for H.264 in the 32-bit build, but ffdshow in the 64-bit build. Another example is I prefer to use ffdshow for Mpeg2 in the 32-bit built, but the Microsoft decoder in the 64-bit build). My current workaround is to set CoreAVC to 'Prefer' in mpc but...
As I say, it's not essential, it'd just be handy.


and doing things right has always been your style as far as I can see, why waver on such a trivial to implememt issue.

[CruNcher]

Shark007 i don't see the use of it either you maybe could avoid issues between the 32 and 64 bit code path on certain functions this way but mostly those would be performance related and mostly you are aware of these though you have the same goals on both 32 and 64 bit with playback understandable maybe for other components like the Player itself but the Decoding side ?
And on MPC-HC you can still mix those even whit the same registry keys by just opening more instances and setting them up differently that's how i do it works perfectly for testing different stuff :) even different DXVA or rendering implementations @ the same time (NT6 rocks) :D

[Shark007]

I use 64bit Win7.

MPC-HC 32bit is my main player for personal use at my monitor, in my office. On my system, I also use Media Center which is 64bit only, and that is setup to bitstream to my AVR and on to my TV located in the studio.

Media Center is using many different settings and I have that player setup much differently. It has a totally different purpose than MPC-HC. Why deny me the choice of configuration of playback chains because you do not have your system setup like mine or that using one player is enough for you.

[CruNcher]

Shark007 because their should be no difference in anyway and if their is a difference it needs to be fixed, aren't we all working on the ultimate goal to transfer everything to 64 bit with the same or better performance ? :D

[Shark007]

Cruncher, remove the blinders, they're unbecoming.
At no time did I mention a performance difference in playback-ability from one platform to another.

My point has been well presented, Nev has the last word.

[madshi]

aren't we all working on the ultimate goal to transfer everything to 64 bit with the same or better performance ? :D
Nope, we don't.

[CruNcher]

Hmm how about giving a example of which options need to be differently setup (on the decoder) and why in a Media Center environment compared to a MPC-HC environment, because if it really have to be that's no good thing either and that hasn't todo with me having blinders on :D


Nope, we don't.


Hmm so coexisting with 32 bit hardware fine but maybe some want to have entirely 64 bit frameworks and no different memory management and everything in 1 space except of 2 spaces running side by side (less complexity) :(

[e-t172]

MPC-HC 32bit is my main player for personal use at my monitor, in my office. On my system, I also use Media Center which is 64bit only, and that is setup to bitstream to my AVR and on to my TV located in the studio.

Media Center is using many different settings and I have that player setup much differently. It has a totally different purpose than MPC-HC. Why deny me the choice of configuration of playback chains because you do not have your system setup like mine or that using one player is enough for you.

What you want is not separation between 32-bit and 64-bit settings per se. You have a more general problem, which is separation of configuration between different playback "environments".

Implementing separation between 32/64 would only solve your problem because you happen to be in a very specific situation where one playback environment is 32-bit and the other is 64-bit. But it is not a general, well-thought solution (i.e. it will break as soon as one will want different configurations for, say, two 64-bit players). Hence it would just be a hack, not the "Right Thing To Do©®™". That's why I doubt nevcairiel will implement it.

ffdshow already solved this problem using "presets", which is a powerful solution to select different configurations based on a number of parameters. It is a real, proper solution to the issue at hand. Maybe nevcairiel plans to implement an equivalent feature in LAV. Or maybe not.

[nevcairiel]

Actually, the "Right Thing" is if the player controls the whole playback environment. LAV exposes all its settings through a configuration interface, which players can take full control over (including a "runtime config" mode, which does not use or change the registry settings)

[SamuriHL]

Actually, the "Right Thing" is if the player controls the whole playback environment. LAV exposes all its settings through a configuration interface, which players can take full control over (including a "runtime config" mode, which does not use or change the registry settings)

Woa! I use such a player! :D

[kalston]

With the latest nvidia drivers (285.62) CUDA vc1 decoding is buggy for me, I get a lot of random "macroblocking" (gtx 275, Win 7 64).

I used libav software decoding in madvr instead and got smooth playback with 0 issue.

That's on Jurassic Park's blu ray by the way, might try a different one later.

[nevcairiel]

Did that not occur with previous drivers? AFAIK the bluray is somewhat new.
I have not tried that one specifically, but i also have a card which does full VC-1 hardware decoding, and i would guess the problem is limited to the partial mode of your card.

[kalston]

Did that not occur with previous drivers? AFAIK the bluray is somewhat new.
I have not tried that one specifically, but i also have a card which does full VC-1 hardware decoding, and i would guess the problem is limited to the partial mode of your card.

Well, I did not try the JP bluray with the older drivers no. And yeah, it just came out on Monday.

I just never had this problem before with OTHER vc1 blurays and since the only thing that changed in my setup is the drivers I thought it was *unlikely* to be something else. Maybe I should just make a sample but I'm not sure how effective that would be since it doesn't happen all the time.

[dead_screem]

With the latest nvidia drivers (285.62) CUDA vc1 decoding is buggy for me, I get a lot of random "macroblocking" (gtx 275, Win 7 64).

I used libav software decoding in madvr instead and got smooth playback with 0 issue.

That's on Jurassic Park's blu ray by the way, might try a different one later.

I've noticed a similar problem for me as well on my 9800GTX and only with interlaced content when adaptive deinterlacing is used. Otherwise its fine. last version to work correctly with VC-1 interlaced w/adaptive deinterlacing is 258.96. I'm assuming it has to do with the newer drivers containing newer CUDA versions that don't like my card.
(with the newer drivers I only tested VC-1 interlaced+adaptive deinterlacing and VC-1 progressive. I didn't happen to test MPEG-2 or H.264 interlaced with adaptive deinterlacing, so I don't know if it's specificly related to VC-1 interlaced and adaptive deinterlacing or adaptive in general, I'm not going to re test because upgrading drivers then downgrading to 258.96 or lower is hell.)

[Gleb Egorych]

Did anyone face a similar problem with the latest nvidia whql 285.62: viewing particular h.264 1080i channel in DVBViewer with LAV CUVID or LAV Video (+CUVID acceleration) causes slow motion effect. After a few seconds DVBViewer resets video playback and its source filter says there was a buffer overflow error. No problem with 285.27 beta or while playing recorded stream from HDD. Cyberlink decoder is OK on both video driver versions. Seems like Nvidia broke CUVID in the release.

[Superb]

Looking at the ffmpeg repository (http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=shortlog), it seems they added support for DTS Express decoding... If I'm not mistaken, LAV Audio supports it via the ArcSoft DTS Decoder, but an open-source option would also be appreciated. :)

EDIT: My bad. Only parsing. nev explained it below.

[nevcairiel]

Looking at the ffmpeg repository (http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=shortlog), it seems they added support for DTS Express decoding... If I'm not mistaken, LAV Audio supports it via the ArcSoft DTS Decoder, but an open-source option would also be appreciated. :)

The only thing they did is merge my patches that allow *parsing* DTS Express, not decoding. The parsers are just responsible to find the frames in the audio stream, and separate them, so the decoder can get a full audio frame to decode and doesn't have to piece it back together itself.

This is how those rumors start again, and in a few weeks someone will come along wondering why DTS Express doesn't work. Please don't start rumors on facts that you don't fully understand.
If some new important feature is added to ffmpeg, i'll surely also include it in my changelog, so read that. ;)

[Superb]

Fair enough. I edited my previous reply to avoid confusing others.

[nevcairiel]

Don't take it personally, the stupid people have just been appearing everywhere lately. :)

[mkanet]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum thread to ask this.

My mpg and wmv files all have screenshots added for each Windows Explorer thumbnail. However, none of the mkv, flv, and avi files have them.

I noticed in Haali splitter there is a feature to add thumbnails. What's the equivalent way to do it in LAV splitter?

I'm curious where the mpg and wmv thumbnails are coming from. Those seems to be working correctly on my machine.

I'm using Windows 7 64bit for my OS.

[clsid]

Haali splitter does not have a thumbnail feature. Nor does any other splitter. Thumbnailing is done by a shell extension for Explorer. The option you are referring to controls Haali's shell extension, which was removed long ago for stability reasons.

You can use Microsoft's shell extension for thumbnails. Easy way to enable that is with the Codec Tweak Tool.

[ney2x]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum thread to ask this.

My mpg and wmv files all have screenshots added for each Windows Explorer thumbnail. However, none of the mkv, flv, and avi files have them.

I noticed in Haali splitter there is a feature to add thumbnails. What's the equivalent way to do it in LAV splitter?

I'm curious where the mpg and wmv thumbnails are coming from. Those seems to be working correctly on my machine.

I'm using Windows 7 64bit for my OS.

This may help you regarding thumbnails Icaros (http://shark007.net/tools.html)

[mkanet]

Thanks so much clsid and ney2x, you guys were both extremely helpful. I noticed when using the default windows shell extension; even after enabling the extensions I wanted via Codec Tweak Tool, I noticed a few flvs or mkv would not get their thumbnails.

When I used Icaros, every single file received a thumbnail. However, what worries me about Icaros is if it is a memory resident app or not. I'm hoping it simply replaces the default shell extension with a slightly more enhanced version without taking any extra resources.

This may help you regarding thumbnails Icaros (http://shark007.net/tools.html)

[jmone]

Any progress on SW based deinterlacing? It would be great to prod JRiver to move to LAV Video but without a SW deinterlacing option.....it is still FFDSHOW for now. (not an issue for me thanks to LAV CUVID)

[madshi]

Any progress on SW based deinterlacing?
There may soon be no need for that... ;)

[jmone]

Tease!

[jmone]

...actually, lets say madshi looks at adding a deinterlacer in madVR..that could change things big time, as then for J.River Users the options are:
- RO Std: LAV Video & EVR (you get deinterlacing as a part of EVR)
- RO HQ: LAV Video & madVR (??? new deinterlacer) as at present JRiver has to use FFDSHOW with YADIF if you are not a nvidia users (else you get LAV CUVID and all is excelent!!!).

[pSych0bUNny]

Kia Ora nevcairiel,

Thank you very much for your work on these filters.

I am having issues with the LAV splitter and FLV files. I have searched this forum, however I cannot see that anyone has reported a similar issue.

I have encountered an issue when using any FLV splitter and files from www.tvnz.co.nz/video - obviously as it is an NZ site you may not be able to view media streams.

I access this site thru Media Portal and the OnlineVideos plug-in. I am using hoborg's SAF6 (latest pkg using LAV v0.37), unlocked, and the only files I have issues playing are .flv from above mentioned site.

The files are VP6.2 Video Flash (VP6F) 1024x576 - VLC states frame rate is 1000...?
Audio is MPEG audio layer 1/2/3 (mpga), stereo, 44kHz, 128kb/s.

A sample file is here - http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~perrin_g/TVNZ_Sample.flv (24MB)

Regardless of video codec (LAV, ffdshow, Windows 7, CyberLink), the LAV splitters do not allow for smooth playback of these files. They stutter and freeze for up to 10 secs in seemingly random places.

Same thing happens using FLV Splitter, but more freezing, etc.

The only way I can get smooth, almost jitter free playback is using VLC, or using SAF5.2 unlocked from hoborg - http://hobring.esero.net/saf/binary/saf502.exe - which uses the Cyberlink FLV splitter.

Now I would continue to use SAF5.2, except there is no BD support like in SAF6 due to your LAV Filters.

I have unticked 'Enable Video Stream Parsing' in the LAV Splitter config, which did make the playback freeze as described above, whereas before, when ticked, it almost completely freezes.

I have spent some time trying out different combinations of filters/splitters/codecs trying to discover something useful, however my limited knowledge of these things is probably preventing me supplying you any useful info.

I do not think my machine specs are required, as again, these files play back nearly flawlessly in VLC or in Media Portal using SAF5.2 with the CyberLink FLV Splitter.

Hopefully the file sample and my incoherent ramblings have helped at least point you towards a solution?

Appreciate your time.

Cheers.

-P

[BloodySword]

Does anyone have a build of the actual FFDshow mod? http://git.1f0.de/gitweb?p=ffmpeg.git;a=summary

[roytam1]

Does anyone have a build of the actual FFDshow mod? http://git.1f0.de/gitweb?p=ffmpeg.git;a=summary

Wrong. This git repository is for building LAV Filters. IT IS NOT FFDSHOW MOD.
ffdshow-tryout itself use libav.

[BloodySword]

First post says:

You can find the slightly modified/tuned version of ffmpeg used for LAV Filters here:
http://git.1f0.de/gitweb?p=ffmpeg.git;a=summary

And I'm looking for builds because I don't have all depencies to compile it.

[JEEB]

ffdshow-tryout itself use libav.
Actually, no -- -tryouts uses a weird mix of ffmpeg and libav as far as I can remember -- with random modifications all over because of legacy reasons ("All hail Milan!").

[roytam1]

Actually, no -- -tryouts uses a weird mix of ffmpeg and libav as far as I can remember -- with random modifications all over because of legacy reasons ("All hail Milan!").
but from the svn log, it should count as libav-based as it updates from libav but not ffmpeg.

for difference between ffmpeg and libav, see this blog post:
http://codecs.multimedia.cx/?p=370

[BloodySword]

For me it doesn't matter if it is ffmpeg or libav, it should just work.

[JEEB]

but from the svn log, it should count as libav-based as it updates from libav but not ffmpeg.

for difference between ffmpeg and libav, see this blog post:
http://codecs.multimedia.cx/?p=370
It's just been called 'libav' in the changelogs :P

I recommend you do
grep "FFmpeg" -R *
grep "Libav" -R *in -tryouts' src/ffmpeg

And I know the difference of libav and ffmpeg, I've been posting bugs and having stuff fixed as well as just conversed on both sides.

Anyways, this is off-topic here so I'll stop here.

For me it doesn't matter if it is ffmpeg or libav, it should just work.
Indeed. Also, it shouldn't exactly be hard to compile ffmpeg, just grab a proper'ish msys/mingw environment, f.ex. one from here (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/How_to_compile_the_MPC) (although I still use komisar's 4.5.3 since some stuff still has problems with 4.6.x).

Then just compile the thing a la the shell script in LAV Filters' root and you'll get yourself a library (of course you might also need MS's compiler's tools in your path in case you need the dot-lib).

[Thunderbolt8]

I cant get this file http://www.mediafire.com/?wtzcu8guck5cvur to play with LAVsplitter and WMVDecoderDMO. plays fine with ffdshow instead, though.

edit: works though when remuxing the video to .mkv. is it a problem of the dmodecoder with the m2ts structure or of other files inside?

[pankov]

Any progress on SW based deinterlacing?
or a CUVID deinterlacing with software decoding?
Nev,
what happened to your tests of this? what were the results?

[nevcairiel]

I cant get this file http://www.mediafire.com/?wtzcu8guck5cvur to play with LAVsplitter and WMVDecoderDMO. plays fine with ffdshow instead, though.

edit: works though when remuxing the video to .mkv. is it a problem of the dmodecoder with the m2ts structure or of other files inside?

The file plays just fine for me with the WMVideo Decoder DMO on Windows 7.

[Thunderbolt8]

oh well, playback doesnt start here, just stay at 0:00:00 with black screen -.-

[SamuriHL]

There may soon be no need for that... ;)

Wouldn't that be nice. ;)

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[cyberbeing]

P016 output seems broken (not used) in LAV Video going way back, is that a known issue?

[nevcairiel]

P016 output seems broken (not used) in LAV Video going way back, is that a known issue?

It would be used if a file were actually 16-bit. I don't offer it for 10 or 8 bit files.

[cyberbeing]

Why not offer it for 10-bit files? Is there something wrong with swscale 10-bit to 16-bit conversion?

While there isn't much of a point in outputting 16-bit, it'd be better if you just set it as the lowest priority format for each sub-sampling (4:2:0/4:2:2/4:4:4) level, while disallowing it only for 8-bit. That way it could be forced if desired for testing purposes.

[madshi]

I see no sense in 16bit output if the files are only 10bit (or lower). swscale conversion from 10bit to 16bit will not improve anything. The officially recommended 10bit to 16bit conversion method for 16-235 content just shifts the pixel values, so there will be exactly zero change in output, at least when using madVR.

P.S: The only sense in allowing P016 output for 10bit files would be to support renderers which accept P016 but not P010.

[Keiyakusha]

16bit output? no way. People would use it and would claim that quality is so much better so it even way beyond compare. Who needs that? One should make single custom build if a some point he'll need to test something like that.

[nevcairiel]

P016 and P010 are exactly the same memory layout (with P010 defined to have the 6 extra bits set to 0), so if anything supports P016 but not P010, it seriously fails.
I don't see the point allowing it.

[cyberbeing]

I never said it would improve anything, I'm more interested in it for benchmarking things which accept P016. I'm already aware that speed and quality between P010 (10-bit padded to 16-bit) and P016 output (10-bit shifted to 16-bit) should be identical if handled properly. xy-VSFilter now supports P010 and P016 input/output, but for whatever reason P016 was slower than P010 when using CoreAVC. I wanted to cross-check with LAV Video, but I'm obviously unable to in its current form. I'm thinking xy-VSFilter may not be handling P016 optimally, but without cross-checking with another decoder I don't know if it's a CoreAVC issue...

Well if someone could PM me a build with working P016 when LAV Video 0.38 is released I'd be grateful.

[clsid]

Thanks so much clsid and ney2x, you guys were both extremely helpful. I noticed when using the default windows shell extension; even after enabling the extensions I wanted via Codec Tweak Tool, I noticed a few flvs or mkv would not get their thumbnails.

When I used Icaros, every single file received a thumbnail. However, what worries me about Icaros is if it is a memory resident app or not. I'm hoping it simply replaces the default shell extension with a slightly more enhanced version without taking any extra resources.The MS one respects the preferred filter settings of Windows 7. Use Win7DSFilterTweaker to set LAV as preferred and it should work. It will use the first frame of the video though, limitation of the shell extension.

Icaros is buggy, so it should be used with caution.

[nevcairiel]

P010 (10-bit padded to 16-bit) and P016 output (10-bit shifted to 16-bit)

Actually, both are shifted to 16-bit. In P010, the renderer just knows to ignore the 6 lowest bits.

PS:
Painting subtitles on a 4:2:0 image is still a bad idea, you should convert it to RGB before - 10-bit support doesn't change that.

[cyberbeing]

Painting subtitles on a 4:2:0 image is still a bad idea, you should convert it to RGB before - 10-bit support doesn't change that.
Explain.

Why should I care that my rasterized TrueType/OpenType subtitles are painted on YUV if it's faster?

[nevcairiel]

The problem is not YUV, the problem is that the chroma is still subsampled. If you make the whole thing YUV 4:4:4, its also good.
Chroma subsampling means that you will probably get blurred borders and slight chroma errors on the borders.

[madshi]

The problem is that you need to do chroma upsampling in order to get YUV 4:4:4 or RGB, which costs CPU performance, especially if you want more than just Bilinear upsampling. IMHO the best subtitle logic would be to have the subtitle renderer render to an RGB texture with an alpha channel (totally separate from the video image) and ask the renderer to blend it over the video image. That's somewhat similar to what the MPC-HC internal subtitle renderer does. VsFilter could do a similar thing, but custom communication with the renderer would be needed for that.

[cyberbeing]

Chroma subsampling means that you will probably get blurred borders and slight chroma errors on the borders.
I've never seen that as a significant problem. The majority of subtitles are just black and white anyway, and the rest you couldn't care if they had pristine chroma as it's not something you'd notice during playback with font-based subtitle (madVR does a good job upsampling anyway). Now if you only care about image-based DVD/Blu-ray subtitles, then yes, rendering in RGB can make a big difference.

The problem is that you need to do chroma upsampling in order to get YUV 4:4:4 or RGB, which costs CPU performance, especially if you want more than just Bilinear upsampling.
That is the problem, which is why it's nice that madVR does the chroma upsampling to 4:4:4 on the GPU.

IMHO the best subtitle logic would be to have the subtitle renderer render to an RGB texture with an alpha channel (totally separate from the video image) and ask the renderer to blend it over the video image. That's somewhat similar to what the MPC-HC internal subtitle renderer does. VsFilter could do a similar thing, but custom communication with the renderer would be needed for that.
If your interested in such a interface/interaction between VSFilter and madVR, submit a Feature Request to the xy-VSFilter (http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/) project. The developer working on it has already re-written large portions of VSFilter and added many new features and speed enhancements (at a very quick pace I might add, since he seems comfortable with the code), so I doubt he'd mind adding a few more useful things. He's been a bit stumped on how to go about adding DXVA support, so he may be open to other options like you're suggesting. Back when he first made the project xy-VSFilter public, he also had expressed interest in eventually working on porting libass, so if you decide to go that route and need another dev it's possible he'd be interested. Speeding up and enhancing VSFilter was just an easier target for the time being.

[Keiyakusha]

Oh, ah, if madvr can cooperate with xy-vafilter to get this done, this would be so awesome... that's sounds too good to be true, I shouldn't be exited too much, should calm myself down... =)

[madshi]

If your interested in such a interface/interaction between VSFilter and madVR, submit a Feature Request to the xy-VSFilter (http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/) project.
Maybe later. Busy with other stuff right now.

[Thunderbolt8]

xy-VSFilter (http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/) project.is there a thread here on doom9?

[pankov]

Did anyone face a similar problem with the latest nvidia whql 285.62: viewing particular h.264 1080i channel in DVBViewer with LAV CUVID or LAV Video (+CUVID acceleration) causes slow motion effect. After a few seconds DVBViewer resets video playback and its source filter says there was a buffer overflow error. No problem with 285.27 beta or while playing recorded stream from HDD. Cyberlink decoder is OK on both video driver versions. Seems like Nvidia broke CUVID in the release.

I've just noticed the same problem.
I'll try the older drivers and report back later

[cyberbeing]

is there a thread here on doom9?
No there isn't. Feel free to make one, but I don't think the dev is currently a member of doom9. GoogleCode seems to work just fine for reporting issues and requesting features, but other than that, there is his email and a small (half-dead) thread on the CCCP Forums where he first made the project public.

Either way, this is getting side-tracked for this thread when all I wanted was working P016 output from LAV Video for testing purposes... Oh well.

[Pat357]

Kia Ora nevcairiel,
I have encountered an issue when using any FLV splitter and files from www.tvnz.co.nz/video - obviously as it is an NZ site you may not be able to view media streams.

I access this site thru Media Portal and the OnlineVideos plug-in. I am using hoborg's SAF6 (latest pkg using LAV v0.37), unlocked, and the only files I have issues playing are .flv from above mentioned site.

A sample file is here - http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~perrin_g/TVNZ_Sample.flv (24MB)

I just played this sample using LAV-splitter, LAV-video and LAV-audio v0.38RC (link was here posted by nev) and it played just fine !
Try updating your LAV to 0.38RC.

[Sebastiii]

I just played this sample using LAV-splitter, LAV-video and LAV-audio v0.38RC (link was here posted by nev) and it played just fine !
Try updating your LAV to 0.38RC.

I can confirm too :) it's working here.

[azaze1]

First let me say this issue may not belong in this thread but truth is I do not know where the problem lies. It's either with MPC-HC, LAV, or the decoding.

For a few months now I've noticed that most of my movies (usually 1080p material) have a periodic issue where a 5 second portion of the movie will suddenly become ultra choppy, and then smooth itself out. It'll happen once, maybe twice during a 2.5 hour movie. This is not a case of a dropped frame every so often, it's a full 5 seconds of nearly every other frame being dropped so it almost looks like a cinematic effect.

This didn't used to happen 6 months ago. I do stay on top of the latest nightlies for MPC-HC, LAV Filters, MadVR. I want to say it never happened before I moved to LAV so that's why I'm posting here. I don't think it ever happened when using DXVA either, but I don't believe it's the software decoding because it happens when using MadVR's internal decoders AND LAV Video decoding.

My setup:

Windows 7 32bit
AMD Radeon HD 6450
Catalyst 11.9 drivers
Latest nightly of:
MPC-HC
LAV Filters 0.37
MadVR 0.77
ReClock 1.8.7.7

Has anyone else seen this behavior even once? If not, is there anything I should check that may cause this?

[SamuriHL]

Try the catalyst 11.4 driver and see if the problem goes away. Just a hunch.

[Plutotype]

First let me say this issue may not belong in this thread but truth is I do not know where the problem lies. It's either with MPC-HC, LAV, or the decoding.

For a few months now I've noticed that most of my movies (usually 1080p material) have a periodic issue where a 5 second portion of the movie will suddenly become ultra choppy, and then smooth itself out. It'll happen once, maybe twice during a 2.5 hour movie. This is not a case of a dropped frame every so often, it's a full 5 seconds of nearly every other frame being dropped so it almost looks like a cinematic effect.

This didn't used to happen 6 months ago. I do stay on top of the latest nightlies for MPC-HC, LAV Filters, MadVR. I want to say it never happened before I moved to LAV so that's why I'm posting here. I don't think it ever happened when using DXVA either, but I don't believe it's the software decoding because it happens when using MadVR's internal decoders AND LAV Video decoding.

My setup:

Windows 7 32bit
AMD Radeon HD 6450
Catalyst 11.9 drivers
Latest nightly of:
MPC-HC
LAV Filters 0.37
MadVR 0.77
ReClock 1.8.7.7

Has anyone else seen this behavior even once? If not, is there anything I should check that may cause this?

My assumption:
This looks like your GPU downclocks during the movie playback and when there is a fast/panned/high bitrate sequence, the downclocked GPU can not process all frames as required. In about 5 seconds the GPU reacts and comes back to full core/memory clock frequencies. Then the movie is smooth again. Altough 11.10 WHQL (http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-64.aspx) have ben released couple of minutes ago, I have tested 11.10 RC3 ( should be the same as WHQL basically or very close ) a couple of days ago by increasing the minimum core/memory clock frequencies as I have mentioned in this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534744#post1534744).

This post (http://www.overclock.net/amd-ati/701797-how-fix-flickering-overclocking-2-monitors-5.html#post9279708) describes how to create such gently overclocked profile for AMD Catalyst.

Madshi has also adviced in one of his posts at madVR thread to keep the GPU clocks as stable as it is possible.

[dukey]

Would it make sense to integrate the LAV filters into FFdshow (at least the video ones anyway)? That way subtitle rendering, and all the other great filters it has would work .. just nicely.

[SamuelMaki]

Would it make sense to integrate the LAV filters into FFdshow (at least the video ones anyway)? That way subtitle rendering, and all the other great filters it has would work .. just nicely.

Better idea would be to write own methods and don´t use the old-dated(?) ones that ffdshow uses... At least deinterlacing, deband, avisynth support (if possible) and subtitles. And for the audio filter new DRC, night mode and mixer... Then it would be fantastic:)

[Keiyakusha]

IMO it will be nice to see avisynth support in LAV so you can execute any possible script. And other possible things like deband, sharpen, smoothing, whatever is not needed. yes, this will be feature for advanced users... so what? better to have something for advanced users than nothing for everyone (+ normal users will be able to use it too by reading some guide ) Also looking on avisynth support in ffdshow, I don't think its something that hard to use...

[dukey]

Better idea would be to write own methods and don´t use the old-dated(?) ones that ffdshow uses... At least deinterlacing, deband, avisynth support (if possible) and subtitles. And for the audio filter new DRC, night mode and mixer... Then it would be fantastic:)

why re-invent the wheel ? most off the ffdshow is stable and well optimised :p

[azaze1]

My assumption:
This looks like your GPU downclocks during the movie playback and when there is a fast/panned/high bitrate sequence, the downclocked GPU can not process all frames as required. In about 5 seconds the GPU reacts and comes back to full core/memory clock frequencies. Then the movie is smooth again. Altough 11.10 WHQL (http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-64.aspx) have ben released couple of minutes ago, I have tested 11.10 RC3 ( should be the same as WHQL basically or very close ) a couple of days ago by increasing the minimum core/memory clock frequencies as I have mentioned in this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1534744#post1534744).

This post (http://www.overclock.net/amd-ati/701797-how-fix-flickering-overclocking-2-monitors-5.html#post9279708) describes how to create such gently overclocked profile for AMD Catalyst.

Madshi has also adviced in one of his posts at madVR thread to keep the GPU clocks as stable as it is possible.

is the GPU core and memory clock even relevant when decoding in software mode? I'm not using DXVA, and the issue occurs whether I'm using MadVR or EVR-CP.

thx for the tip though, I'll give it a shot either way.

[Keiyakusha]

But we don't want to make ffdshow's clone isn't it? Also asking for deband or something... I guess its asking to much from Nev! Avisynth is the middle ground here. And, look at deband in ffdshow, its a crap, and broken in 64bits. The best debanding solutions available in avisynth only (my English is poor enough, I don't know synonyms to the word "best"). What else ffdshow can do that avisynth can not at the same or better quality level?
Also look here, lately there is pretty nice openCL avisynth plugins that works blazingly fast. Very good for realtime playback. This is something Nev probably never integrate in LAV itself...

[cegy]

how can i force lav splitter to always be the splitter i want to use for mpeg.ts (h.264) as each time i get it sorted a few days later it changes back and then am stuck again :( (even happens of fresh install of windows 7 x86/x64)
i mainly use lav splitter to help with encoding speed from record tv shows via dss as i get a faster fps then using dgnv :/

p.s. doesn't matter what version of lav filter i use

[mandarinka]

PS:
Painting subtitles on a 4:2:0 image is still a bad idea, you should convert it to RGB before - 10-bit support doesn't change that.

(My thoughts on this topic)

Only if you care about the subtitle rendering quality *a lot*. It could be argued that the subs aren't an original part of the video and thus aren't really needed to be superb with regards to chroma resolution... Personally, I don't care about the subtitle rendering, the current quality of vsfilter (when rendering at video resolution & on yv12) is okay imho. And anyway - people that do care about sharpness of the font rendering either 1) use mpc renderer to draw in fullscreen resolution 2) use software upscaling prior to vsfilter to achieve the same.

[Plutotype]

is the GPU core and memory clock even relevant when decoding in software mode? I'm not using DXVA, and the issue occurs whether I'm using MadVR or EVR-CP.

thx for the tip though, I'll give it a shot either way.

I also recommend you to create a custom power plan in Windows:

- hard disk - turn off hard disk after: never
- usb selective settings: disabled
- multimedia settings: when playing video: optimize video quality

External drives also use to have proprietary software where standby is defined in minutes or "never".

[clsid]

how can i force lav splitter to always be the splitter i want to use for mpeg.ts (h.264) as each time i get it sorted a few days later it changes back and then am stuck again :( (even happens of fresh install of windows 7 x86/x64)
i mainly use lav splitter to help with encoding speed from record tv shows via dss as i get a faster fps then using dgnv :/

p.s. doesn't matter what version of lav filter i use
You can configure preferred source filters with Codec Tweak Tool (http://majorgeeks.com/K-Lite_Codec_Tweak_Tool_d5738.html).

[golagoda]

how can i force lav splitter to always be the splitter i want to use for mpeg.ts (h.264) as each time i get it sorted a few days later it changes back and then am stuck again :( (even happens of fresh install of windows 7 x86/x64)
i mainly use lav splitter to help with encoding speed from record tv shows via dss as i get a faster fps then using dgnv :/

p.s. doesn't matter what version of lav filter i use

In MPC-HC add the splitters you don't want to use to 'External Filters' and set them to block. When you want them just un-block them. That's what I do at least, there's probably easier ways to do it though.

[cegy]

clsid: i have used codec tweak tool and the other one that they do but it keeps changing back to "system default" and even if lav splitter is set and golagoda: the mpc-hc idea won't work as i can't block something i want know what its using in the first place

this is the outcome of a encoded avi of when the splitter isn't set http://rghost.net/28028481

i even get the same problem when using dgnv (nvidia 450 gts @ 100 fps max!) this is why i use dss as i can get the cpu to do the decoding give me over 60-120% boost faster then dgnv can give me when using my gfx card

[Pat357]

i even get the same problem when using dgnv (nvidia 450 gts @ 100 fps max!) this is why i use dss as i can get the cpu to do the decoding give me over 60-120% boost faster then dgnv can give me when using my gfx card
For h264 you could also try DGAVCdecdi : it also uses the CPU to decode, hence could be much faster if your CPU can handle it.

[azaze1]

is the GPU core and memory clock even relevant when decoding in software mode? I'm not using DXVA, and the issue occurs whether I'm using MadVR or EVR-CP.

Thx for the tip though, I'll give it a shot either way.

Not finding the XML tags for these overdrive sections in my custom profile under catalyst 11.10. A little hesitant to add them.

BTW: Something I should have said is that GPU-Z has always shown the GPU Core and Mem to be at it's rated spec of 625 MHz core, 500 MHz mem when a movie is playing.

As I close the movie it moves down to the modest 100 MHz core, 150 MHz mem within 3 seconds. But again every time a movie is playing in MPC-HC it correctly bumps up the speeds to the "normal" values. Not sure this minimum speed tweak is going to do anything for me if it's always at 625/500 when playing movies.

[azaze1]

I also recommend you to create a custom power plan in Windows:

- hard disk - turn off hard disk after: never
- usb selective settings: disabled
- multimedia settings: when playing video: optimize video quality

External drives also use to have proprietary software where standby is defined in minutes or "never".

Thanks,

I've got all those settings in my power plan already. My media is being accessed via gigabit network. HTPC is just a 64GB SSD with windows and media software.

[ruinevil]

First let me say this issue may not belong in this thread but truth is I do not know where the problem lies. It's either with MPC-HC, LAV, or the decoding.

For a few months now I've noticed that most of my movies (usually 1080p material) have a periodic issue where a 5 second portion of the movie will suddenly become ultra choppy, and then smooth itself out. It'll happen once, maybe twice during a 2.5 hour movie. This is not a case of a dropped frame every so often, it's a full 5 seconds of nearly every other frame being dropped so it almost looks like a cinematic effect.

This didn't used to happen 6 months ago. I do stay on top of the latest nightlies for MPC-HC, LAV Filters, MadVR. I want to say it never happened before I moved to LAV so that's why I'm posting here. I don't think it ever happened when using DXVA either, but I don't believe it's the software decoding because it happens when using MadVR's internal decoders AND LAV Video decoding.

My setup:

Windows 7 32bit
AMD Radeon HD 6450
Catalyst 11.9 drivers
Latest nightly of:
MPC-HC
LAV Filters 0.37
MadVR 0.77
ReClock 1.8.7.7

Has anyone else seen this behavior even once? If not, is there anything I should check that may cause this?

It's probably Reclock, it's an extremely tempermental piece of software. I had issues like that with the Auto playback speed setting, though I mostly noticed them in the beginning of the file. I force Reclock to play at original speed now. Though before you do that, try uninstalling and reinstalling MPC-HC, keeping the settings intact.

[Andy o]

It's only "temperamental" if you don't know exactly what it's doing. It can clash with other settings of players or renderers, so you must know what to enable or disable. That's why it was recommended to disable VSync when using with madVR, for instance.

[THX-UltraII]

I own a MSI GTX 460 1gb OC edition and use CUVID with it. Will it make any sense (will I benefit) to overclock my card?

[cruse]

First thing I just noticed is that madVR reports a display refrash rate of 23,971xx (NVIDIA 23Hz setting) while madVR reported a display rate of 23,975xx which is far more close to EXACTLY 23,976 which it should be ideally.

Do you guys also get 23,971xx reported by madVR and if so, will this result in far more dropped frames during a movie? With my ATI 5450 I got about 1-3 dropped frames during a 2-3 hour movie which was pretty satisfying to me.

I recently switched from an ATI 5750 to an NVIDIA GTS450, and my ATI came closer to 23.976 as well (though, still not close enough). The easiest solution is to just use Reclock, and go with 24hz, which both cards come much closer to.

gee had to wait 5 days to post this...

For NVIDIA cards you have to create a custom resolution to get exactly 23.976Hz/FPS.

My NVIDIA system settings are in german, so I don't know what the options are called in English but go to

Change Resolution -> button below resolution list -> Create User Specified Resolution

In the upper Display Mode box (1920x1080) select 23 Hz as frequency and progressive, expand Timings below, set Standard from automatic to manual and make sure those are the according numbers:

active pixels horizontal: 1920 vertical: 1080
front porch horizontal: 638 vertical: 4
sync width horizontal: 44 vertical: 5
total pixels horizontal: 2750 vertical: 1124
polarity horizontal: positive vertical: positive
refresh rate: 23.976

Test, save and make sure the new resolution is active. The tray icon should offer 23 Hz now with right click (although it lists the new resolution as 24 Hz in user specified res list).

Good Luck

[cruse]

Would it make sense to integrate the LAV filters into FFdshow (at least the video ones anyway)? That way subtitle rendering, and all the other great filters it has would work .. just nicely.

Better idea would be to write own methods and don´t use the old-dated(?) ones that ffdshow uses... At least deinterlacing, deband, avisynth support (if possible) and subtitles. And for the audio filter new DRC, night mode and mixer... Then it would be fantastic:)

You can combine ffdshow processing and LAV Filter decoding by using the ffdshow raw video filter (e.g. in MediaPortal).

[dukey]

You can combine ffdshow processing and LAV Filter decoding by using the ffdshow raw video filter (e.g. in MediaPortal).

That's good to know. I'll give that a spin.

[cegy]

For h264 you could also try DGAVCdecdi : it also uses the CPU to decode, hence could be much faster if your CPU can handle it.

well atm i use lav splitter with the use coreavc as the h.264 decoder when used via dss plus how is this gonna help me ? as i NEED lav splitter to be only set as default for mpeg.ts :mad:

even tryed halli as the splitter as it makes the encoded file even worst then the link i posted :( (not something i would want to archive!)

[THX-UltraII]

gee had to wait 5 days to post this...

For NVIDIA cards you have to create a custom resolution to get exactly 23.976Hz/FPS.

My NVIDIA system settings are in german, so I don't know what the options are called in English but go to

Change Resolution -> button below resolution list -> Create User Specified Resolution

In the upper Display Mode box (1920x1080) select 23 Hz as frequency and progressive, expand Timings below, set Standard from automatic to manual and make sure those are the according numbers:

active pixels horizontal: 1920 vertical: 1080
front porch horizontal: 638 vertical: 4
sync width horizontal: 44 vertical: 5
total pixels horizontal: 2750 vertical: 1124
polarity horizontal: positive vertical: positive
refresh rate: 23.976

Test, save and make sure the new resolution is active. The tray icon should offer 23 Hz now with right click (although it lists the new resolution as 24 Hz in user specified res list).

Good Luck

thanks! I ll try this tonight but I wonder if your settings will work with my display. Isn t it so that I will need to make a totally different custom res?

[THX-UltraII]

another general question:

I want to use SVP (realtime Frame Interpolation) which will need a lot of GPU. How do I know how much GPU is already 'reserved' for CUVID?
Own a MSI Cyclone GTX460 1GB DDR5 oc edition overclocked@880Mhz.

[cruse]

thanks! I ll try this tonight but I wonder if your settings will work with my display. Isn t it so that I will need to make a totally different custom res?

This timing change is resolution not display related, so as long as your display is a full HD one with 1080p the values should be exactly the same.

The NVIDIA driver suite treats 24p literally as 24.000, although most "24" content actually is 23.976. So out of the box you sadly get an asynch mess from NVIDIA for most of the content out there.

After this simple change you wont need Reclock anymore (at least for drifting clocks caused by this).

[THX-UltraII]

Thanks for your quick reply. I know that both the 24 and 23 standard NVIDIA settings don t make sense at all (the 23Hz reports 23,971xx in madVR.

But I have some other things that I m dealing with atm which confuses me:

Here are my results with madVR and as you can see things are strange and something in the report by madVR is not correct:

NVIDIA 1080p custom 23Hz @23,976 (with everthing else standard)
- madVR reports 23,97495 in the top of the OSD (so a deviation of 0.00105).
- one frame dropped every 6 minutes says OSD
- 22 dropped frames after 120 minutes of playback says OSD

The above all seems 'correct', but now

NVIDIA 1080p custom 23Hz @23,978 (with everything else standard)
- madVR reports 23,97795 in the top of the OSD (so a deviation of 0.00195).
- one frame dropped every 18 minutes says OSD
- 2 frames dropped after 120 minutes of playback says OSD

The above just is not right. With this I mean that some of the information is incorrect. First off all the deviation is BIGGER then with the 23,976nvidia setting but the 'one frame dropped every' information is 'better' then the 23,976nvidia setting.
And the this that is the most strange to me is that I only got 2! dropped frames so this assumes it is almost perfect which does not correspond with the other information.

[cruse]

Don't know whether I'm reading it right, but I assume the second set is with the values I posted?

Those values are the closest you can get with the basic handles NVIDIA provides. So 2 dropped frames over the course of 120 mins is pretty great with all the hardware and different clocks in a PC. Seems like you are getting there.

I don't know how madVR calculates those values, perhaps madshi can chime in. But at least the "one frame dropped every X minutes" looks like extrapolation based on numbers it got right now.

[nevcairiel]

I'm sorry, but this is not the "How do i setup my NVIDIA card" thread, and i would appreciate if you move all these discussions elsewhere. AVS Forum for example already has alot of threads on the topic in its HTPC section.

[THX-UltraII]

I'm sorry, but this is not the "How do i setup my NVIDIA card" thread, and i would appreciate if you move all these discussions elsewhere. AVS Forum for example already has alot of threads on the topic in its HTPC section.

Sorry, you are right on this. I ll send a PM to cruse if I have more questions.

Keep up the good work you re doing! :thanks:

[travolter]

hi!
I have this problem: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162921

and I wanted to install Lav Filters to check if they can solve it.

Im noticing that Lav filters only install in XPsp2 and upper, and the manual bat installers do not register these .ax files.

Its possible to install them in XPsp1 using some trick? adding and registering some files to system32, install some extra component maybe?

Any help would be appreciated

[nevcairiel]

Only XP SP3 is supported, with anything before that you're on your own.

[Pat357]

well atm i use lav splitter with the use coreavc as the h.264 decoder when used via dss plus how is this gonna help me ? as i NEED lav splitter to be only set as default for mpeg.ts :mad:
even tryed halli as the splitter as it makes the encoded file even worst then the link i posted :( (not something i would want to archive!)
In Avisynth, DirectshowSource allows you to specify what filters (splitter, video & audio decoder) to use by giving it a .GRF file as input.
First create a .GRF (graphedit, graphstudio) with the filters you like to use.
Feed this graph to DirectshowSource in your .avs script. It looks a bit difficult, but its easy once you've done it.
See http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/DirectShowSource.

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.38

LAV Splitter
- New subtitle selection options (see release notes or readme)
- Improved handling of languages with more then one ISO 639-2 code (f.ex. German, French, etc)
- Improved seeking to the start of the file
- Added support for VobSubs in MP4
- Added support for MKV nested chapters
- Improved playback of RV40 in MKV
- Improved support of H264 in WTV

LAV Audio
- Fixed a crash with raw audio and SPDIF processing
- Improved support for COOK
- Improved DTS-in-WAV detection

LAV Video
- Fixed a issue that caused MPC-HCs EVR-CP to produce wrong colors when using CUVID decoding
- Support Multi-Threading and CUVID decoding for MPEG-1
- Improve decoder flushing
- Fixed a potential freeze on load and dynamic type changes
- Fixed a freeze on seeking with certain VP8 files
- Added support for UtVideo
- Added support for H264 4:2:2



Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.38-x64.zip)

I haven't really changed much over the last few days, and no new complaints came in, so i thought i might as well release this now.
The new subtitle logic is hopefully working properly now, i haven't really gotten any bug reports..

Anyhow, on the topic of the subtitle selection logic, i wrote a page on my page about the different modes, and trying to explain how the advanced mode works.
You can find it here: http://1f0.de/lav-splitter/lav-splitter-stream-selection/
Suggestions/Ideas on how to improve on the explanations are welcome!

A somewhat important note for people using the programmatic configuration interface of LAV Splitter: It of course had to be changed for the new subtitle options, but i hope it remained ABI compatible. But in any case, you should grab the new header file from the developer_info folder inside the .zip.

Have fun with this version!

[fastplayer]

I haven't really changed much over the last few days, and no new complaints came in, so i thought i might as well release this now.
On my end, the trunk builds were running flawlessly for the last couple of days. Thanks for 0.38! :)

[glorp]

LAV Filters 0.38
[CODE]Have fun with this version!

Thank you nev. You really deserve a lot of appreciation for all your work.

FWIW, the advanced subtitle config string in the RC version worked fine on every case I tested it with.

[MasterNobody]

nevcairiel
Used ffmpeg library wasn't updated to the latest? Lossless 10-bit 4:4:4 H.264, and lossless 4:2:2 H.264 are still broken.

[Thunderbolt8]

is it possible with the advanced subtitle system to prefer a default subtitle track over a forced title?

e.g. language is english, a complete english subtitle track is default, and there is also an english track for foreign language only, set to forced. what I want is always to load the (full) default track. the forced track should only be loaded automatically when I generally decide to disable all full language tracks (all independent from matching the movie and subtitle track language).

so basically a forced track should only be prefered over an other track when the forced track is also the default track at the same time, or generally matching movie language and subtitle language of another default track is detected.

[ruinevil]

Thanks for the new release. I'll try it out when I get back home.

All you need is ordered chapter support for MKV/OGM in the splitter and you will have supplanted FFDshow and Haali for most people.

I'm told ordered chapter support is really hard to implement, though.

[zerowalker]

Ehm, Just wondering, why does LAV got 4:2:2 support, but not FFDshow tryout?
I thought the later was superior and such, and LAV being a little more, The Best In A Box;O?

[ruinevil]

I thought LAV was drawn heavily from libav and made from scratch by nevcairiel, and tryouts was ffmpeg with tons of ancient hacks so stuff works.

[zerowalker]

Oh;O
well, maybe;O
I have always thought ffdshow tryouts where like, the ultimate choice, as they update all the time, and has been alive for a very long time;O
But now i am confused if LAV is a better option;O
And i mean as in term of Quality, if there is no difference in quality then ffdshow got some neat features (like resize, wich makes subtitels nice) etc, and i don´t think you can do stuff like that with LAV right?
I am by no means complaining on it;O!
I think it´s very good, and very handy, as it just works;D

But can someone please illuminate the situation for me;D?

[ruinevil]

96b9d1230bb9
Favor NV12 over YV12 output.
Today (10 hours ago)

is this before or after you released 0.38? I have an ATi card, and I'm told ATi sucks at YV12, but other than EVR based renderers, everything prefers YV12 output over NV12 output with LAVfilters.

[golagoda]

LAV Filters 0.38
[...]
Have fun with this version!

Thanks, I'll be sure to test it out, keep up the great work as always.

[millercentral]

One minor thing:

Your Advanced subtitle description on your website (http://1f0.de/lav-splitter/lav-splitter-stream-selection/) says to use a semi-colon or space to seperate rules (and uses semi-colons in all the examples), but the readme file says tokens should be seperated with a comma or a space (and uses spaces in all the examples). Do all three seperators work?

[EDIT: my second issue appears to be resolved with 0.38...]

[nevcairiel]

96b9d1230bb9
Favor NV12 over YV12 output.
Today (10 hours ago)

is this before or after you released 0.38? I have an ATi card, and I'm told ATi sucks at YV12, but other than EVR based renderers, everything prefers YV12 output over NV12 output with LAVfilters.

That change was after 0.38.
I don't know what you mean with "everything". EVR/VMR prefer NV12, madVR doesn't care, HaaliVR doesn't support either - so all in all it seems like a solid choice.

ffdshow raw video has some issues with NV12 input, but you can just turn it off in ffdshow. VSFilter doesn't support NV12 at all (iirc), so it will just fall back to YV12.

There shouldn't be any problems, unless you use some bad software that accepts NV12, but doesn't really support it. In that case, you can still just turn it off in LAV Video.

Your Advanced subtitle description on your website (http://1f0.de/lav-splitter/lav-splitter-stream-selection/) says to use a semi-colon or space to seperate rules (and uses semi-colons in all the examples), but the readme file says tokens should be seperated with a comma or a space (and uses spaces in all the examples). Do all three seperators work?

Yes, all three work. I was told that space was kinda hard to interpret as a separator, so i changed the guide to use the semicolon, guess i didn't update the readme. ;)

[madshi]

That change was after 0.38.
I don't know what you mean with "everything". EVR/VMR prefer NV12, madVR doesn't care, HaaliVR doesn't support either - so all in all it seems like a solid choice.

ffdshow raw video has some issues with NV12 input, but you can just turn it off in ffdshow. VSFilter doesn't support NV12 at all (iirc), so it will just fall back to YV12.

There shouldn't be any problems, unless you use some bad software that accepts NV12, but doesn't really support it. In that case, you can still just turn it off in LAV Video.
Agreed. I think the change to output NV12 by priority benefits ATI users who often (depending on driver version?) don't get any DXVA2 deinterlacing with YV12 output. That's a pretty strong argument for NV12. So as long as there's no significant disadvantage (and I'm not aware of any) of prefering NV12 it's the way to go IMHO.

[hoborg]

I just noticed one problem.
I am using LAV splitter + audio decoder + FFDshow video decoder set to "WMV9" for VC-1 to decode VC-1 videos.
And auto setting for "enable VC-1 timestamp correction" doesnot work, it need to be set as enabled.
I am not sure when i tryed it last time, but "auto" was working OK, and now with .38 it does not.

[nevcairiel]

I just noticed one problem.
I am using LAV splitter + audio decoder + FFDshow video decoder set to "WMV9" for VC-1 to decode VC-1 videos.
And auto setting for "enable VC-1 timestamp correction" doesnot work, it need to be set as enabled.
I am not sure when i tryed it last time, but "auto" was working OK, and now with .38 it does not.

I don't think "auto" was ever meant to work properly with ffdshow set to wmv9. Auto is tuned for ffdshow with avcodec, which sadly behaves completely different to "wmv9". Because it behaves completely differently based on the selection option, it will only ever work in one mode, and i decided to make that the avcodec mode. Its not going to be fixed.

If you want the MS decoder, use the MS DMO decoder directly, and not through ffdshow.

PS:
Nothing changed regarding those options for quite a while.

[noee]

A somewhat important note for people using the programmatic configuration interface of LAV Splitter: It of course had to be changed for the new subtitle options, but i hope it remained ABI compatible. But in any case, you should grab the new header file from the developer_info folder inside the .zip.

Not sure if you've had any feedback yet, but it appears you didn't break anything existing. Thanks.

[benus]

Greetings everyone.

May I just ask you whether there is a chance to add ac3 output from aac 5.1 on the fly using LAV Audio Decoder.
There is just huge amount of files on the internet with aac 5.1 audio track, and even more people willing to use their HDMI or SPDIF output to stream it to the receiver, especially the one that has got THX modes.
I appreciate all your hard work.
Take care.

[nevcairiel]

May I just ask you whether there is a chance to add ac3 output from aac 5.1 on the fly using LAV Audio Decoder.

There is not. You can use ReClock for example to encode to AC3 on the fly.

[TheShadowRunner]

Hi nev, thanks for 0.38.
Been testing a little and VP6 cropping isn't quite fixed yet.
Actually the fix that was implemented in 0.37 brought a small issue, for exemple on this video (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/seiken20th/swf/movie/movie01.flv), there's a new green line on the side with 0.37/38.
Or this video (http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv), for which the cropping fix did nothing (please check the right side).

[nevcairiel]

You know, it would work just fine if you just used LAV Splitter for FLV splitting. :)

[TheShadowRunner]

You know, it would work just fine if you just used LAV Splitter for FLV splitting. :)

Oh..!
The only reason I didn't switch to LAV Splitter is because I read it screws up the standard directshow .AVI splitting.
Is there any truth to this at all still?

[nevcairiel]

You should not listen to rumors. In its default mode it will just take over AVI splitting, but if you disable it, the MS AVI Splitter should take over just fine. (Note that it should be disabled in the installer, if you disable it in LAV Splitters properties after installation, it might not work properly)

[Anakunda]

Hello, is any good installing LAV filters bundle for someone using KMPlayer, CoreAVC and ffdshow codecs? I.E. does LAV provide some better performance than mentioned configuration?
I wanna give a try to everything new but also like to keep my PC tidy as possible so that I don't want any mess in codecs which work nice and as they should atm.

Another think I need to know is what happens if I install LAV filters over existing codecs. Will it take precedence over existing codecs for all supported formats, or do I have choice to choose prefereed codec for every format? Can I change default codecs later?

[CruNcher]

@nev
nothing you can do about these freezing ?, i mean how does mpc-hc splitter avoids it ? it seems virtually the only one (most OS applications fail currently very strange also seeing that VLCs parser is not based on ffmpeg @ all) that does and i slowly wonder if cyberlinks splitter is actually based on its codebase though also other commercial splitter like Elecards has no issues with this ;) (i doubt this H.264 stream freezing inside mov/mp4 is wanted behavior)

[nevcairiel]

nothing you can do about these freezing ?

The file is just broken. Report it to ffmpeg or libav or someone that cares.

[cruse]

...better performance?... like to keep my PC tidy as possible...Will it take precedence over existing codecs for all supported formats, or do I have choice to choose prefereed codec for every format? Can I change default codecs later?

...better quality. It doesn't get tidier than with LAV Filters.

LAV Decoders and Splitter install with a very high merit, so they should take precedence over existing ones.

During install (and afterwards within configuration) you can choose which formats to decode with LAV Filters. Formats that are not selected should use codecs like before.

[CruNcher]

@nev
Then this brakage must have happened in Finalcut already and i wonder why ffmpeg/vlc are reacting so harsh to this and others totally ignore it (whatever is going on @ the bitstream level)

[TheShadowRunner]

You should not listen to rumors. In its default mode it will just take over AVI splitting, but if you disable it, the MS AVI Splitter should take over just fine. (Note that it should be disabled in the installer, if you disable it in LAV Splitters properties after installation, it might not work properly)

Hmm I had already registered the splitter manually before you added the bold part.. luckily nothing bad happened after I disabled .avi support. ^^;

But for the FLV cropping issue, while it fixed the cropping on the 2nd sample, the first sample (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/seiken20th/swf/movie/movie01.flv) still has that green bar on the side (http://videoff7.free.fr/lavsplittbar.png), not on your setup?

[nevcairiel]

But for the FLV cropping issue, while it fixed the cropping on the 2nd sample, the first sample (http://www.square-enix.co.jp/music/sem/page/seiken20th/swf/movie/movie01.flv) still has that green bar on the side (http://videoff7.free.fr/lavsplittbar.png), not on your setup?

I get no issues whatsoever on that sample using LAV Splitter + LAV Video.

Are you sure you linked me the right file? Mine says movie resolution 460x386, while yours claims 427x320 (from the madVR OSD)

[TheShadowRunner]

I get no issues whatsoever on that sample using LAV Splitter + LAV Video.

Are you sure you linked me the right file? Mine says movie resolution 460x386, while yours claims 427x320 (from the madVR OSD)

Dang, I mixed up samples indeed.
This is the one (http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv)giving the issue.
Yes, using Lav Splitter + Lav Videodec + madVR.

[nevcairiel]

Dang, I mixed up samples indeed.
This is the one (http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv)giving the issue.
Yes, using Lav Splitter + Lav Videodec + madVR.

I fixed the cropping with the Gabest FLV Splitter on that sample, however i don't get any issues with LAV Splitter to begin with.

[CrAsH cro]

DTS in WAV is still not working in ne version of LAV audio filter ???

Is there anything to configure or???

[fastplayer]

I fixed the cropping with the Gabest FLV Splitter on that sample, however i don't get any issues with LAV Splitter to begin with.
With that sample and using LAV Splitter (including Audio/Video), I see a green vertical line on the right side like in TheShadowRunner's screenshot (http://videoff7.free.fr/lavsplittbar.png).

[nevcairiel]

With that sample and using LAV Splitter (including Audio/Video), I see a green vertical line on the right side like in TheShadowRunner's screenshot (http://videoff7.free.fr/lavsplittbar.png).

Thats funny, the line only appears if output is YV12, if its NV12 the line vanishes. Can someone explain that to me?
madshi? maybe a madVR bug? I don't get it in EVR. (For reference, sample here: http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv)

I doubt its a decoder problem, as the line vanishes depending on which output format you use or renderer you use.

[fastplayer]

Thats funny, the line only appears if output is YV12, if its NV12 the line vanishes. Can someone explain that to me?
Unfortunately, I can't. :o
I can only confirm your observation: With NV12 everything's fine and EVR-CP seems to be completely immune to this.

Edit: Well, EVR-CP doesn't support YV12, AFAICT. So there goes my "completely immune"... :D

[nevcairiel]

Edit: Well, EVR-CP doesn't support YV12, AFAICT. So there goes my "completely immune"... :D

It does, just not with some recent ATI drivers.

[fastplayer]

Ouch, I thought it was only NV12, YUY2 and RGB32.

[hoborg]

DTS in WAV is still not working in ne version of LAV audio filter ???

Is there anything to configure or???

It is working just fine for me, but i am not using audio passthrough.

[madshi]

Thats funny, the line only appears if output is YV12, if its NV12 the line vanishes. Can someone explain that to me?
madshi? maybe a madVR bug? I don't get it in EVR. (For reference, sample here: http://videoff7.free.fr/myth-cm.flv)

I doubt its a decoder problem, as the line vanishes depending on which output format you use or renderer you use.
It's probably caused by the weird video width. It's an odd number, which is very rare. Both madVR and EVR ask the decoder to deliver a nice pitch, so the odd width should be no problem. But for whatever reason the last chroma sample seems to be missing, when LAVVD sends YV12, while it's there when sending NV12. Looking at my code, I don't think it's a madVR issue, but I'm not 100% sure. My code for YV12 and NV12 input is pretty similar and both handle the odd width identically. Can you double check your code? FWIW, the odd width is a problem because due to 4:2:0 subsampling the 427 width video has not 213, but 214 chroma samples. At least that's my understanding. My best guess is that LAVVD transfers 214 chroma samples per line when sending NV12 and 213 when sending YV12. I'm just guessing here, though. And I've no idea why the problem doesn't show with EVR. After all it could be a problem in madVR, but I don't see it in my code.

[nevcairiel]

Chroma should be rounded up? Hm, i've always wondered how that works. How does it work for odd heights? Is that even allowed?

I did indeed find the problem. It didn't appear for NV12 because that is being processed using SSE2, which always processes 16 byte at a time - while YV12 uses plain memcpys which use the exact width .. oh well.

[madshi]

Chroma should be rounded up? Hm, i've always wondered how that works. How does it work for odd heights? Is that even allowed?
Oh well. I've no idea. I wasn't sure myself whether chroma should be rounded up, but if you don't, the one odd luma pixel has no chroma value at all. Yeah, madVR also expects an extra chroma line if the height is odd.

Would really love to know if there's an "official" way to handle this. Maybe I'm wrong and chroma width/height should be rounded down, I don't really know.

[nevcairiel]

I just hope it won't cause issues down the line. I took the "safe" route and only write the extra chroma value if the renderer requests stride to fit it in, if a stupid post-processor like ffdshow sits after the decoder, it will get the old size - just to be safe. ;)
I'm confused yet again, though. NV12 has interleaved U/V samples, which means it has to be an even size, or stuff goes really weird. o.O Odd sizes really are not good for you.

I should investigate how post-processors behave when i suggest a stride to them, so the issue is not existent anymore.

Edit:
Too bad, ffdshow raw video is too stupid to understand a suggested stride from the decoder.
VSFilter manages, though. Maybe i should teach ffdshow.

On that note, do people use any video post-processors beside VSFilter/DirectVobSub or ffdshow?
--
Forget it, fixing ffdshow is impossible, i'm not touching that thing. Instead, they'll just end up with non-strided images, an extra memory copy to compensate for the unaligned memory access, and what do i know on other short comings. Seriously, did i mention that its crap? :)

[TheShadowRunner]

Thanks for looking into the matter guys, and fastplayer for further testing.
Kinda glad the green line was reproducible on someone else's setup ^^;

[SEt]

I'm pretty sure that odd width/height are illegal for YUV420 data. MSDN explicitly states that NV12 data has even number of lines and example code for converting RGB32 to YV12 uses
assert(dwWidthInPixels % 2 == 0);
assert(dwHeightInPixels % 2 == 0);
whatever it means.

[nevcairiel]

Well its encoded as mod 16 (a macro block in VP6 seems to be 16 pixels), but it then defines a cropping to cut it down to some odd width. This is not a problem when talking directly to a renderer, because they always require some stride anyway. It is only a problem when talking to ffdshow, which is too dumb to handle strides.

[CrAsH cro]

It is working just fine for me, but i am not using audio passthrough.

You can get audio from MPC-HC or MePo?
I get noise in MPC-HC even if passthrough is disabled...

[SEt]

Even with stride request it doesn't look good at all: for YV12 data chroma stride is half the luma stride. Minimal stride that can be requested is width, but is chroma's 'half' rounded up or down? Nowhere said as it's assumed to be even.

[Xaurus]

Hi nev,

I have uploaded a video I shot when suddenly LAV audio decided to drop out on me again.
Please, if you have any way for me to debug/log this I am happy to do it. I am amazed that I am the only one with this problem. :(

click for mp4 (http://home.halden.net/mordor/audio_dropout.mp4)

We were watching a normal mkv, the dropout happened first after 20 minutes then it always happened after each ~1 second when seeking (as you can see in the movie). This is exactly the same behavior that has happened 3 times already.
If I reload the file and seeking to the same spot, it plays fine. It has never happened immediately after opening a file.

LAV Filters 0.38, madvr 0.77, reclock 1.8.7.7 (wasapi), mpc-hc 1.5.3.3801. Audio is decoded in LAV audio and sent over HDMI.

[Thunderbolt8]

what library does LAV Audio use when decoding AC3? libavcodec? arcsoft libraries?

[Superb]

You should not listen to rumors. In its default mode it will just take over AVI splitting, but if you disable it, the MS AVI Splitter should take over just fine. (Note that it should be disabled in the installer, if you disable it in LAV Splitters properties after installation, it might not work properly)
Just wondering... is this because of UAC? If it is, wouldn't it be possible to make the options panel ask for elevated permissions when it needs to use those?

[Mr.White]

You can get audio from MPC-HC or MePo?
I get noise in MPC-HC even if passthrough is disabled...

It works fine for me in MPC-HC (DTS in Wav from dts cd 44.1KHz).
When not Bitsreaming, LavSplitter -> LavAudio -> Default DirectSound Device = Multicchannel PCM
When Bitsreaming, LavSplitter -> Reclock (wasapi) = DTS
If i use LavAudio when Bitstreaming, MPC-HC and GraphStudio crash.
It doesn’t work in MePo.

[06_taro]

Patched builds (x86 and x64, with roytam1's rv30/40 seek on keyframes patch) :

Non-installer: LAVFilters-0.38-10-git-r1397(a13fba5).7z (http://j.mp/LAVFilters-r1397)
Installer: LAVFilters-0.38-10-git-r1397(a13fba5)-Installer.7z (http://j.mp/LAVFiltersI-r1397)

[BatKnight]

DTS in WAV is still not working in ne version of LAV audio filter ???

Is there anything to configure or???
0.38 works for me. Not using passthrough though.
Just LAV Splitter + LAV Audio. Plays all my DTS in WAV.
I tested with dtsdecoderdll.dll and with dca, both worked.

0.37 worked too.

Bat

[CrAsH cro]

It works fine for me in MPC-HC (DTS in Wav from dts cd 44.1KHz).
When not Bitsreaming, LavSplitter -> LavAudio -> Default DirectSound Device = Multicchannel PCM
When Bitsreaming, LavSplitter -> Reclock (wasapi) = DTS
If i use LavAudio when Bitstreaming, MPC-HC and GraphStudio crash.
It doesn’t work in MePo.

i don't use Reclock... So, in the end, when bitstreaming with LavSplitter and LavAudio...thing doesn't work...
I can only get it to work in GraphStudio if i disable passthrough... MPC-HC doesn't work with or without passthrough. Do you guys change some of the options in MPC-HC that comes with SAF6??? Or you do not use SAF at all???

[hoborg]

MPC-HC doesn't work with or without passthrough. Do you guys change some of the options in MPC-HC that comes with SAF6??? Or you do not use SAF at all???

You need to add LAV audio decoder to MPC-HC external filters.
MPC-HC doesnot create the same default graph like Graphstudio.

[Dogway]

Is it possible to implement delayaudio real time? So one doesn't need to restart MPC and audio sync should be easier

[zoose]

Does LAV video support any sort of debug logging?

The application that comes with my DVB-T card allows specifying alternative MPEG2/H264 video decoders. LAV Video Decoder is listed in the dropdown but when selected doesn't work for some reason.

The only other MPEG-2 decoders installed on my system ffdshow and Arcsoft both work fine.

[Pat357]

What could be the reason that Lav-vid doesn't work with raw h264 files ?
If I enable "raw video" in Lav-splitter, it's getting used to open the .h264 file (otherwise lav-splitter is not being used), but I get no video from Lav-vid.

[CruNcher]

try another solution in the chain to fallback for example arcsoft or cyberlink though their are issues as well depending on the bitstream scenario with lav video though most of this is ffmpeg related

[matthew_eli]

A simple question: will be ever supported 4K resolution by CUVID?

Thanks ;)

[JEEB]

A simple question: will be ever supported 4K resolution by CUVID?

Thanks ;)As soon as the drivers, APIs etc. start supporting it. The newest hardware might be capable of it, but they sure haven't implemented it in software yet :P

[Midzuki]

A simple question: will be ever supported 4K resolution by CUVID?

Just out of curiosity, do you already have a 90-inch monitor? :p

[nevcairiel]

What could be the reason that Lav-vid doesn't work with raw h264 files ?
If I enable "raw video" in Lav-splitter, it's getting used to open the .h264 file (otherwise lav-splitter is not being used), but I get no video from Lav-vid.

raw h264 should play with the next version, however getting the duration and seeking does not work for them.

[matthew_eli]

Just out of curiosity, do you already have a 90-inch monitor? :p

No no..I just would like to know whether would be possible to have also in VP4 and below (I have a 460M GTX) the 4K acceleration... ^_^

[nevcairiel]

No no..I just would like to know whether would be possible to have also in VP4 and below (I have a 460M GTX) the 4K acceleration... ^_^

No.
The hardware needs to support it, and well, it doesn't.

[CrAsH cro]

Is it possible to implement delayaudio real time? So one doesn't need to restart MPC and audio sync should be easier

HELL YEAH! That will be great!!!!

[CrAsH cro]

You need to add LAV audio decoder to MPC-HC external filters.
MPC-HC doesnot create the same default graph like Graphstudio.

Well, then it all makes sense ... I thought that MPC-HC version inside SAF is internally configured to use LAV spliter and LAV audio??? will try today....

[v0lt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgN-5S-3DM or http://data.cod.ru/130739
The file is 24.989 fps, but the playback is ~18 fps (look statistics).
Why so?

After converting to matroska (http://www.mediafire.com/?smy82334ozhor36), the problem goes away.

[silkshadow]

I tried searching this thread but couldn't find an answer. I am using v0.38 and the status tab is showing nothing, everything is greyed out. However, everything seems to be rendering and playing fine, so there is no error. I just am trying to see if the arcsoft codec is being used or not.

I'm using Zoom Player 8 RC3 on win7 x86. I have LAV doing all audio formats. I am new to LAV just switched over to it for better DTS-MA support from Gabset, coreavc and FFDshow (replaced with LAV splitter, LAV video and LAV Audio). Output to a receiver via spdif. I am not bitstreaming (should I be?).

Is there something I should be doing to activate the status tab?

Thanks!

[kalston]

It may have been asked before but:

"Can LAV Audio decode DTS-HD?
A: Kind of. On its own, it cannot. But, LAV Audio supports using the ArcSoft DTS decoder, which allows decoding of full DTS-HD. Just drop the "dtsdecoderdll.dll" from the TMT3/5 Codecs directory into LAV Audio's directory, and enjoy. NOTE: This only works on 32-bit!"

That means it only works on a 32bit OS, right? Or are you referring to the 32bit version of LAV Filters? Is there no way to make it work on a 64bit OS?
I feel like this may have been asked already but my quick search was unsuccessful.

I don't have any DTS-HD files right now to test it (all my blurays with DTS-HD are ripped to my HDDs in FLAC using eac3to + ArcSoft DTS decoder).

[nevcairiel]

The OS doesn't matter, the important part is that your player is 32-bit.

[zerowalker]

Hey again, i am starting to use this LAV now and find it very good in many situations which it lacked from start (not complaining;O).
But i still have a recommendation which i really would like to see, and that is to make the subtitles increase to the size of the screen, like if i watch a 1280x720 video, it should be like 1920x1080 video (for subtitles), i hope you understand;D
But of course it´s only my wish, and i don´t really think anyone else wants it bad or if they even care, so do what you want with it;D!

Keep up the good work, Near Carrier;D!

[Keiyakusha]

zerowalker
OMG, again... LAV has nothing to do with subtitles rendering! Change their size in whatever you use to load subtitles... How can people think that they use some features of LAV that never actually was there and probably never will?

[SamuriHL]

Agreed. It's the subtitle renderer's job to scale the subtitles, NOT the splitter. And LAV filters do not include a subtitle renderer.

[nevcairiel]

Its not only about whos job it is, its all out impossible for the splitter to do it. :)

[kalston]

The OS doesn't matter, the important part is that your player is 32-bit.

Great! I just need to try some DTS-HD files now then :)

[Boo]

Think I found a bug.

AVI files (xvid encoded in this case) with zero B-Frames (max_bframes 0) will freeze the player.
MPC-HC - LAV Splitter - LAV Video - LAV Audio v.038

Uploaded a small sample:
http://www.mediafire.com/?t52j52cp1v4gw96

[nevcairiel]

Think I found a bug.

AVI files (xvid encoded in this case) with zero B-Frames (max_bframes 0) will freeze the player.
MPC-HC - LAV Splitter - LAV Video - LAV Audio v.038

Uploaded a small sample:
http://www.mediafire.com/?t52j52cp1v4gw96

Plays just fine here.

[Boo]

I went through the MPC settings and selected EVR Custom instead of madVR and now all is fine.

Thanks for the great work by the way.

[SamuriHL]

Great! I just need to try some DTS-HD files now then :)

Yea I've been using it on my X64 systems no problem. Just make sure you have a 32 bit player and are using the 32 bit version of LAV filters (obviously) and you're good. The reason I'm decoding now (again) vs bitstreaming is that J River's MC17 offers a feature similar to ReClock that stabilizes the playback and can't really do its job when bitstreaming. It works very well.

[zerowalker]

Oh sorry;O
I am not to good with this stuff;O
But can anyone recommend a way to do it then?
I use Directvobsub currently;D!

Sorry but hope you don´t get the wrong impression, i don´t want to annoy you, i just lack knowledge on this parts;S

[secvensor]

In video there are no autolevels, and the audio the codec start playing some audiofiles the click in the beginning.

[pankov]

Any progress on SW based deinterlacing?

or a CUVID deinterlacing with software decoding?
Nev,
what happened to your tests of this? what were the results?
Nev,
did I miss your answer or you missed my question there ... or you simply prefer not to answer it right now?

[nx6]

zerowalker
OMG, again... LAV has nothing to do with subtitles rendering! Change their size in whatever you use to load subtitles... How can people think that they use some features of LAV that never actually was there and probably never will?
Honestly the subtitle size is set by the original typesetter (if we're talking about Subststion alpha format). The script has the resolution of the video listed in it. If you scale your 720p video up to fill a 1080p screen, the size of the subtitles will scale up with the rest of the picture. They're the same percentage to screen height they were before.

Agreed. It's the subtitle renderer's job to scale the subtitles, NOT the splitter. And LAV filters do not include a subtitle renderer.

Its not only about whos job it is, its all out impossible for the splitter to do it. :)

Actually it's not impossible, and I was going to request this feature as well. There is a real setting on Haali's splitter to scale subtitles (substation alpha format at least). I used it last night to watch some files that I found the subtitle size too small to read comfortably from my normal viewing distance, I set the scaling to 120% and it did increase the subtitle size 20% with no change in position or typeface, etc (except really long lines that would go offscreen in their new size now wrapped automatically to prevent this).

[SamuriHL]

Actually it's not impossible, and I was going to request this feature as well. There is a real setting on Haali's splitter to scale subtitles (substation alpha format at least). I used it last night to watch some files that I found the subtitle size too small to read comfortably from my normal viewing distance, I set the scaling to 120% and it did increase the subtitle size 20% with no change in position or typeface, etc (except really long lines that would go offscreen in their new size now wrapped automatically to prevent this).

It really doesn't matter if a splitter can or can't do it. It's not where it SHOULD be done. It should be done by the subtitle renderer.

[zerowalker]

Okay thanks;D
That was the point i asked before, i mean, i currently use LAV for decoding, then ffdshow to decode Uncompressed as i want it to resize to my screen size to make the subtitles better.
So maybe you can add LAV resize?
Or is that as well what a Subtitle renderer should do?

Well if you find a solution anyone, please post it, i would appreciate it;D!

[SamuriHL]

IMO, the video renderer should do the scaling of video. The subtitle renderer should do the scaling of subtitles and render them on top of the video renderer. The splitter should split the content and send it to the appropriate renderers. In my world, this happens beautifully. I use J River MC17. That has its own subtitle renderer which is able to work with madVR, which I use for my video renderer and does all my video scaling. This is how it should work. But in order for all that magic to happen, the subtitle renderer and the video renderer need to play nice.

[nx6]

Okay thanks;D
That was the point i asked before, i mean, i currently use LAV for decoding, then ffdshow to decode Uncompressed as i want it to resize to my screen size to make the subtitles better.
So maybe you can add LAV resize?
Or is that as well what a Subtitle renderer should do?
The previous comment is right, honestly the subtitle renderer should be handling all this. Unfortunately the dominant external subtitle filter (VOBSub) is a little stuck in the past IMHO. It still assumes everything is 4:3 for example, and makes you go click that box to fix aspect ratio of the text rendering. It also doesn't offer any controls over specific style settings on subs that could easily be controlled (and are by many other subtitle renderers).

I don't know what you mean by having ffdshow "decode uncompressed" after LAV. The scaling of the final image from video resolution to window/screen size should be done by the picture render (VMR9, madVR, etc.)

Right now I'm using Haali's Splitter to split the file instead of LAV. There are only two reasons I'm doing this, first is the subtitle scaling setting I just recently discovered and want to use right now, and the second is support for ordered chapters. But I'm still using LAV for video decoding because of its better performance and superior 10-bit h264 handling over ffdshow. Subtitles are being handled by VOBsub. Then I have Haali's renderer doing picture rendering for a reason I'm not going to bring up here to not derail the convo.

[Infernodash]

Is it possible to enable the deinterlacing and debanding options in ffdshow raw filter while using lav video decoder? When I play 8 bit files the filters applies, however, it dithers my 10bit files to 8bit. I want the filter to only apply to 8bit files. Is there a way to maintain 10bit playback?

Edit: I am using MPC-HC, MadVR, Haali Splitter, LAV Audio and Video decoders, as well as ffdshow raw filter.

[zerowalker]

Yeah but, the video renderer i use EVR, but it doesn´t scale anything;O
it just show the video size, so low resolution videos look crap (the subtitles that is) ;D

[nx6]

Yeah but, the video renderer i use EVR, but it doesn´t scale anything;O
it just show the video size, so low resolution videos look crap (the subtitles that is) ;D
You mean like everything is really jagged and pixelated? I think that's a problem with your EVR. It doesn't look like that for me when I use EVR as picture render.

It would help if we knew more about your setup. Specifically what you were using for subtitle filter and what the original video resolution was.

Edit: and what format your subtitles are in! Are these DVD subtitles (image based) or text subtitles (srt, ssa, ass) where the system has to actually create them from a script.

[Keiyakusha]

Honestly the subtitle size is set by the original typesetter (if we're talking about Subststion alpha format). The script has the resolution of the video listed in it. If you scale your 720p video up to fill a 1080p screen, the size of the subtitles will scale up with the rest of the picture. They're the same percentage to screen height they were before.
I know a lot about subtitles, how to create them and how they works. My post is not about possibility of achieving (or not) desired effect, but about behavior of certain kind of users.

So your idea is to patch subtitle files "on the fly"? Well for that you need to patch scale for relative values... you need to find where (if) absolute values applied, recalculate them and patch too, you need to make sure that vector shapes remain shapes after all that... probably smart line warping is needed too, and such. Good luck to Nev with that if he decides he wants that option too. Simple changing PlayRes_ parameter is a no go, it'll result broken output. Not always but the more complex script - the worse will be output. Also this is not really mandatory parameter.

[zerowalker]

How to put it, if it´s DVD subtitles, aren´t those Yellow and not smooth at all;O?
And with the others, i think it´s srt,ssa or ass. the problem is, if i watch without resizing it looks okay depending on original resolution, but with resize it looks "crystal clear" or how to put it, it doesn´t get smudged anyway as it´s the original resolution (my screen).
I know that Madvr changes the resolution it shows, to the original, or thet MPC can do it i think.
I am using Zoom Player, and don´t want to change the player as i really like it.
But any ideas?
Or do you need more information;D?

[Keiyakusha]

How to put it, if it´s DVD subtitles, aren´t those Yellow and not smooth at all;O?

Oh by the way, I was talking about text subtitles. With DVD subtitles its a different matter. Those are just images rendered on top of the video/ I'm not sure but I guess it is not possible to even patch anything about them since they are images... so we probably need to turn LAV into image editing filter to scale these... ^__^ But for the renderer it should be possible to scale them.

As for the rest, I'm too tired right now and don't really understand anymore what we talking about... maybe next time if no one else will helps you.

[nx6]

So your idea is to patch subtitle files "on the fly"? Well for that you need to patch scale for relative values... you need to find where (if) absolute values applied, recalculate them and patch too, you need to make sure that vector shapes remain shapes after all that... probably smart line warping is needed too, and such.
This isn't about complicated vector-based subtitles, it's about styled text subs, most likely in Advanced SubStation Alpha format.

The subtitle script is written with the assumption the video is at a given resolution, and to use __ pt size fonts for the different styles. Once the subs are rendered by the filter they are just scaled like the overall video picture is if your player window is not the same size as the original video resolution. The result is subs rendered at 640x480 will be upscaled from there to the window resolution, which if it's really big by comparison will cause blurriness. That's what zerowalker wishes to avoid. Since we're dealing with plain text being drawn by the subtitle renderer there's no reason this has to happen. The renderer can simply pretend the actual video is a higher resolution and scale all the figures to match, rendering the subs in a higher resolution and making the text clearer and more readable. I don't see why this shouldn't be possible with vector-based elements really, just change all the coordinates to match the new rendering resolution. "Absolute values" are only absolute as far as the original video resolution. It's simple math to figure out where location x is on screen once the screen size changes, even if the aspect ratio isn't the same.

What I was referring to was scaling just the sub size itself, not the size of the rendering. Obviously I do not know how this feature really works on Haali's splitter, but what I imagine is happening is Haali's Splitter is parsing the subtitle stream it's taken from the file and is changing values in certain SSA tags concerning font size before sending the info onto the subtitle filter. The video resolution hasn't changed, just the number for how big a given font should be. If only text styling tags are effected by this, graphical vector-based elements shouldn't be effected. It might cause "on screen" sign subtitles to flow outside the borders of the video object, though.


And with the others, i think it´s srt,ssa or ass. the problem is, if i watch without resizing it looks okay depending on original resolution, but with resize it looks "crystal clear" or how to put it, it doesn´t get smudged anyway as it´s the original resolution (my screen).
I know that Madvr changes the resolution it shows, to the original, or thet MPC can do it i think.
I am using Zoom Player, and don´t want to change the player as i really like it.
But any ideas?
Or do you need more information;D?
This helps. I was misunderstanding you in the beginning and thought you wanted to be able to tweak subtitle sizes like you can with Haali's Splitter. I don't think it's possible to do what you want in Zoomplayer, otherwise I would be doing it. The feature you want is to set the resolution of the subtitle rendering itself. It's a feature of the subtitle filter and VOBsub doesn't have it. I have heard of there being a setting for it in ffdshow's subtitle filter, but I don't see it. You can do it in Media Player Classic's built-in subtitle renderer, though.

[nevcairiel]

I can ensure you that i'll never modify subtitles in the splitter.
I will not start fixing shortcomings in other filters.

[nx6]

Very well, it was worth asking about. :)

It's honestly not a feature I see myself using very often, since generally subtitles are done at more readable sizes to start with, but changing a setting it is a lot easier than demuxing a file, editing the script to change text sizes, and saving a new external subtitle script for use or remuxing a whole new file with the changes.

What about ordered chapters support? Is that in the future plans?

[nevcairiel]

Sure, some day. Its not high priority (for me), as i don't even have a single file that would need it. :)
Its also alot of work...

[nx6]

Its not high priority (for me), as i don't even have a single file that would need it. :)
Well of course. Needing it would require at least two files. :p

[nevcairiel]

Well of course. Needing it would require at least two files. :p

Actually, you can have it in one file as well. Ordered chapters is not only about external segments, but also about different editions of one movie in the same file (theatrical + extended cut, or something like that). But its really not used much, which is kinda sad.

[nx6]

Now that the subtitle discussion is out of the way (for me anyway), I have an odd issue I wanted to bring up. I'm seeing a system performance issue when using a specific playback setup, and I don't know where the issue lies.

If I use Haali's Splitter, LAV video decoder, and madVR for picture rendering, in that combination, playback still seems to work, but I see very high disk activity being attributed to the system (not the playback app itself) according to Windows. If I change to ffdshow for decoding. Or change to Haali's Renderer and leave LAV for decoder the problem goes away. I can't tell if this is a LAV decoder issue or a madVR issue or Haali's splitter has something to do with it.

[golagoda]

Now that the subtitle discussion is out of the way (for me anyway), I have an odd issue I wanted to bring up. I'm seeing a system performance issue when using a specific playback setup, and I don't know where the issue lies.

If I use Haali's Splitter, LAV video decoder, and madVR for picture rendering, in that combination, playback still seems to work, but I see very high disk activity being attributed to the system (not the playback app itself) according to Windows. If I change to ffdshow for decoding. Or change to Haali's Renderer and leave LAV for decoder the problem goes away. I can't tell if this is a LAV decoder issue or a madVR issue or Haali's splitter has something to do with it.



At least for me using Haali splitter uses way more CPU, e.g. 5-10% more over LAV Splitter - also haali uses the disc for some kind of system cache (or similar) if I remember correctly so that may be it - there's an option to choose how much space it uses in the haali splitter options I think.

[nx6]

Hmmm. That's a thought. Except I'm using Haali's splitter in all three of the mentioned configurations in my post. It's only when it's LAV decoder + madVR I have this happen.

[SEt]

Some versions of Haali had bug with seeking in paused graph that can result in excessive disk and decoding activity. On the other side, splitter itself using 5-10% of CPU looks unrealistic: there is nothing complex to compute there to eat that amount of modern CPU.

[nx6]

Well he said 5-10% more than LAV, not of all CPU resources. I honestly don't know how you would measure a difference like that unless you were using unbearable old hardware to start with.

[Thunderbolt8]

nev, would you consider implementing an option to output 7.1 and 6.1 channels as 5.1 in LAV Audio without dropping the information of those 1 / 2 channels?

[QBhd]

nev, would you consider implementing an option to output 7.1 and 6.1 channels as 5.1 in LAV Audio without dropping the information of those 1 / 2 channels?

+1 for this

QB

[StrifeLeonhart]

Hey guys,

I would like to ask what LAV Filters does?
I read on the first page but didnt quite understand.
For example: does using LAV Filters improve Video or Audio quality in anyway?

Would be nice if someone could explain bit more.

[Keiyakusha]

parsing the subtitle stream it's taken from the file and is changing values in certain SSA tags concerning font size before sending the info onto the subtitle filter.
Yeah i'm ok with that. I just don't find this stuff to be easy to achieve. There is no magical switches that "makes it pretend", you need to hack some stuff here and there for that.
Anyway you got your answer from Nev.

does using LAV Filters improve Video or Audio quality in anyway?
Nope.
LAV is a set of splitters and decoders. just like any other ones but somewhat different, somewhat faster, with active developer, compared to others, with P010 colorspace support.

[Thunderbolt8]

does using LAV Filters improve Video or Audio quality in anyway?
lets hope it doesnt degrade the quality compared to how stuff is supposed to be viewed in terms of standard specifications ;)

[erejnion]

Sure, some day. Its not high priority (for me), as i don't even have a single file that would need it. :)
Its also alot of work...
For me, it's kinda sad having to use Haali for mkv just because of the several (anime) series that get released with ordered chapters. Well, time there is~ just dropping this line to know we will be happy when you finally get around to this.

nev, would you consider implementing an option to output 7.1 and 6.1 channels as 5.1 in LAV Audio without dropping the information of those 1 / 2 channels?
same here, it's kinda sad having to install ffdshow just to get good multiple channel downmix :p But, I guess, this ain't a priority at all; and ffdshow has some other useful audio filters too.

@StrifeLeonhart, Keiyakusha
Using LAV filers does improve video quality... if we compare it to CoreAVC for example (on 10bit video). Or at least so I have heard.

[Thunderbolt8]

same here, it's kinda sad having to install ffdshow just to get good multiple channel downmix :pthis is mainly a problem of not dropping the additional 1 / 2 channel information I guess. dunno if ffdshow does that when setting the mixer to 3/0/2 + LFE. thats why it would be nice to have at least one solution which keeps all the audio information.

[Keiyakusha]

@StrifeLeonhart, Keiyakusha
Using LAV filers does improve video quality... if we compare it to CoreAVC for example (on 10bit video). Or at least so I have heard.
Thats not the right way to put it. If CoreAVC doesn't supports 10bit output or can't dither it it doesn't means that LAV makes something better, it means CoreAVC is broken.

[fastplayer]

dunno if ffdshow does that when setting the mixer to 3/0/2 + LFE.
Just look at the audio channel matrix during playback (--> mixer section in ffdshow audio properties).

[asasadad_1]

LAV Audio Decoder 0.38 has problem with TrueHD in this (http://uploading.com/files/5e544362/truehd.problem.mkv/) sample,ffdshow audio decoder or arcsoft audio decoder works well.

[pacemaker1000]

please help as i am getting frustrated tryimg to get my audio setup working

i have installed the splitter and audio and set as preffered in mpc
also disabled all internal filters

i wish to have dd/hd. dts etc output 'as is' via hdmi for the amp to deal with, plus AAC output as multichannel lpcm

is this possible??

so far i get the dd/dts etc but aac just outputs as 2ch pcm

only way i found to get the aac is using reclock set to wasapi, then amp says multichannel pcm, but in this setup dd files freeze

i use a ati 6570 btw

thanks

[mindbomb]

lav splitter can't seek through an mkv file I have.

It is too large to give you the whole file I think, and despite the fact that it was muxed with mkvmerge, muxing it again to make the sample makes the problem disappear.

I have thus used dgsplit to cut a 100MB chunk.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gsdmj9f49m2g1d0

I hope this is useful to you. I realize that if you use dgsplit though, it generally makes things unseekable anyway, I hope that doesnt interfere too much.

[Thunderbolt8]

Just look at the audio channel matrix during playback (--> mixer section in ffdshow audio properties).not an expert in that, but from what I can see it still doesnt tell me whether that information gets dropped completely or output through the other channels. can only see that theres no information coming through the side channel, but as said that doesnt seem to tell me one or the other.

[Fullmetal Encoder]

Sure, some day. Its not high priority (for me), as i don't even have a single file that would need it. :)
Its also alot of work...

I would also add to that request for ordered chapter support. I realize you don't need it but for my part I'm looking at having to waste countless gigabytes of storage space incorporating the same OP and ED into every file for each episodic show that I encode. So I hope that in the future you will not take such an upgrade off the table.

By the way, thanks for your wonderful tools. Earlier this year I had to take a break from Doom9 and encoding and when I came back six months later I discover these LAV tools that completely open the door on 10-bit encodes and make ffdshow not only unnecessary but obsolete.

[mrcorbo]

please help as i am getting frustrated tryimg to get my audio setup working

i have installed the splitter and audio and set as preffered in mpc
also disabled all internal filters

i wish to have dd/hd. dts etc output 'as is' via hdmi for the amp to deal with, plus AAC output as multichannel lpcm

is this possible??

so far i get the dd/dts etc but aac just outputs as 2ch pcm

only way i found to get the aac is using reclock set to wasapi, then amp says multichannel pcm, but in this setup dd files freeze

i use a ati 6570 btw

thanks

What are your speaker settings in windows?

[jmone]

I'm scratching my head a bit on this one, as when testing madVR's new deinterlacing with LAV Video on some old 720 x 576 / 50i MPEG2 files ripped from DVD would be reported in madVR as 696x556 and have a green strip along the top with the Chroma all pushed vertically down. There is no issue with LAV CUVID. So I tried cutting a 50MB segment off the front of one of the files (just with a file splitter) but the sample plays fine and the dimensions are reported correctly as 720x576. I can upload a sample but the smallest is 260MB.

[nevcairiel]

With LAV CUVID you mean with the real LAV CUVID, or with LAV Video in CUVID mode?
Does it only happen in software mode?

Can you try another renderer?

It does sound like internally the resolution is correct, but madVR thinks its something else - which accounts for the chroma offset. But that doesn't make any sense, how would that happen. The internal resolution is directly put into the media type.

[ajp_anton]

By default, lots of formats are disabled in the decoders/splitter. Why?

[pacemaker1000]

What are your speaker settings in windows?

SET TO hdmi output

thanks

[jmonier]

SET TO hdmi output

thanks

You need to configure the number of speakers for HDMI output (unless you're using WASAPI). I believe that it defaults to Stereo (2 speakers).

That's what he is asking.

[pacemaker1000]

You need to configure the number of speakers for HDMI output (unless you're using WASAPI). I believe that it defaults to Stereo (2 speakers).

That's what he is asking.

Ahhh

where do i do that?

[adam777]

Hi Nev,
Just a quick follow up to this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1533030#post1533030) post.
Sample works fine in 0.38.
Thanks again, Adam.

[jmonier]

Ahhh

where do i do that?

Right click on the speaker icon (desktop toolbar) and select Playback Devices. Or via sound settings in Control Panel to Manage Audio Devices.

Select the HDMI Output that you are using and click Configure.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Nev,
Just a quick follow up to this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1533030#post1533030) post.
Sample works fine in 0.38.
Thanks again, Adam.

Wow... that sample contains 5 video streams and 6 audio streams. Along with a host of other stuff :scared:

[nevcairiel]

LAV Audio Decoder 0.38 has problem with TrueHD in this (http://uploading.com/files/5e544362/truehd.problem.mkv/) sample,ffdshow audio decoder or arcsoft audio decoder works well.

What exactly is supposed to be the problem?
Seems to play just fine.

[adam777]

Wow... that sample contains 5 video streams and 6 audio streams. Along with a host of other stuff :scared:

It's a DVB-T dump, 5 channels on the same frequency, so no surprises...

[kalston]

So I've got mpc-hc 32bit, LAV filters 32bit and I put the dtsdecoder.dll (the same one that works fine with eac3to) in the LAV filters folder, but it still doesn't seem to decode dts-hd.

I downloaded dts-hd samples here http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php :
"Orchestra (Short) (Lossless) 1 57,6MB 0:14 DTS-HD HR 7.1" and "SFX (Long) (Lossless) 1 93,6MB 0:19 DTS-HD MA 7.1"

No luck so far. I've tried disabling the dca decoder in LAV audio but it didn't help.

[pacemaker1000]

Right click on the speaker icon (desktop toolbar) and select Playback Devices. Or via sound settings in Control Panel to Manage Audio Devices.

Select the HDMI Output that you are using and click Configure.


i only see 2ch!!! nop option to select anything else either
you may all be onto something here as i always get 2ch pcm

maybe lav is doing its job but i have something wrong

as a side note if using a video card for audio do you still need a sound card and drivers installed. could this cofuse matters?

[jmonier]

i only see 2ch!!! nop option to select anything else either
you may all be onto something here as i always get 2ch pcm

maybe lav is doing its job but i have something wrong

as a side note if using a video card for audio do you still need a sound card and drivers installed. could this cofuse matters?

What do you have connected to the HDMI? The speaker configurations listed there comes from info (EDID) sent back from the connected device.

This is now OT for this thread (since your problem has nothing to do with LAV) so you should continue this matter somewhere else. There are threads about EDID on AVS Forums and other places.

[cremor]

So I've got mpc-hc 32bit, LAV filters 32bit and I put the dtsdecoder.dll (the same one that works fine with eac3to) in the LAV filters folder, but it still doesn't seem to decode dts-hd.

I downloaded dts-hd samples here http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php :
"Orchestra (Short) (Lossless) 1 57,6MB 0:14 DTS-HD HR 7.1" and "SFX (Long) (Lossless) 1 93,6MB 0:19 DTS-HD MA 7.1"

No luck so far. I've tried disabling the dca decoder in LAV audio but it didn't help.

Thanks for the link to this side, some more test files to add to my library :)

@nevcairiel
Although those samples work fine for me (with dtsdecoderdll.dll) I found a small bug:
In MPC-HC the text for the stream selection (filters -> [file name]) correctly shows "dts-hd ma"/"dts-hd hra", but the sampling rate, channel and bit rate values are from the DTS core track, not the HD track. The "status" tab in the audio configuration panel shows the correct (HD) values.

[nevcairiel]

The splitter does not know what is in the HD parts, the decoder can only figure that out because its capable of decoding it.
Detecting which profile was used is relatively easy, but figuring out what exactly is in there is more complicated. Its a cosmetic thing only, so nothing i will spent much time on.

[cremor]

Ok, no problem then. Didn't know that the splitter can't read that values.

[Sebastiii]

So I've got mpc-hc 32bit, LAV filters 32bit and I put the dtsdecoder.dll (the same one that works fine with eac3to) in the LAV filters folder, but it still doesn't seem to decode dts-hd.

I downloaded dts-hd samples here http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php :
"Orchestra (Short) (Lossless) 1 57,6MB 0:14 DTS-HD HR 7.1" and "SFX (Long) (Lossless) 1 93,6MB 0:19 DTS-HD MA 7.1"

No luck so far. I've tried disabling the dca decoder in LAV audio but it didn't help.

For me i must set dca and if i'm not wrong arcsoft dll is only needed if you don't bitstream to AVR.
For it's working that way, but DTS-HR didn't work in bitstream and seems related to my AVR even if with PDVD it's OK (but not TMT5).
It's quite odd lol.

[jmone]

With LAV CUVID you mean with the real LAV CUVID, or with LAV Video in CUVID mode?
Does it only happen in software mode?

Can you try another renderer?

It does sound like internally the resolution is correct, but madVR thinks its something else - which accounts for the chroma offset. But that doesn't make any sense, how would that happen. The internal resolution is directly put into the media type.

OK - Did some more testing

Chroma offset occur if:
- LAVVideo in SW Mode
- MS Video decoder

Chroma offset does not occur if any of the following is changed:
- LAVVideo in CUVID Mode
- LAVVIdeo in SW Mode if using a 4:2:2 output (eg disabled both 4:2:0 options...the movie res is still incorrect in madVR but it works fine)
- FFDSHOW Video Decoder (the version used by JR)
- EVR

I'm also having trouble uploading a file as soon as I create a sample (or even copy it to another location) the issues goes away....and then I noticed another pattern. These files were created from Music DVD's with DVD Decryptor to break them by chapters (eg one file per song). It is only the First file in each set created this way that has the issue.

It is all very odd but happens on two PC's.

[nevcairiel]

Since its apparently not isolated to LAV Video only, i would suggest to also report that to madshi. A sample to reproduce it will be required in some shape or form, however. Don't remux it, just cut the first few MBs off and see if it still reproduces. (Try DGSplit or something)
Is that actually a new issue since he added deinterlacing?

PS:
4:2:2 doesn't show the issue because its a packed format - there is no separate chroma plane.

Edit:
Wait, i just read - copying the file around changes the behaviour? Your system seems seriously screwed up. :p

[pacemaker1000]

What do you have connected to the HDMI? The speaker configurations listed there comes from info (EDID) sent back from the connected device.

This is now OT for this thread (since your problem has nothing to do with LAV) so you should continue this matter somewhere else. There are threads about EDID on AVS Forums and other places.

sorry but without the advice on here, i thought it was a lav setup problem, i wouldnt have realised the problem was the speaker vonfig

thanks especially to SamuriHL for helping me sort it

[jmone]

Since its apparently not isolated to LAV Video only, i would suggest to also report that to madshi. A sample to reproduce it will be required in some shape or form, however. Don't remux it, just cut the first few MBs off and see if it still reproduces. (Try DGSplit or something)
Is that actually a new issue since he added deinterlacing?

PS:
4:2:2 doesn't show the issue because its a packed format - there is no separate chroma plane.

Edit:
Wait, i just read - copying the file around changes the behavior? Your system seems seriously screwed up. :p

Found the "X" factor...It is the crop edges command in MC (hence why it was not showing up in my sample...until I reapplied crop edges!). If some of these files are tagged with "crop edges" you get the chroma shift as described above with certain combinations of decoders and madvr.

Given it is some three way thing, I'll post the sample in the MC Beta Forum.

[jmone]

EDIT - posted on the MC Beta forum and let madshi know as well.

[Plutotype]

Hi Nev,
Recently I have reported a weird issue at madVR forum. Instable decoder queue, which drops from 11-12/12 to 1-12/12 or lower causes the presentation queue drop also to 0-8/8, which leads to frame drops. I sent madshi couple of logs and he commented this as follows:

"According to the log, playback is running just fine. Then all of a sudden the decoder stops sending frames to madVR for a short while. Of course audio continues to play in the meanwhile. So once the decoder catches up again, madVR has no other choice than to drop a couple of frames to make sure that audio and video stay in sync. Now what you need to find out is why the decoder sometimes freezes for a short while. This is outside of madVR's control, as far as I can say. It could be caused by a bug in the decoder, or by your PC being very busy for a short while, so that no CPU time is left for the decoder at that time. My first suggestion would be to try a different decoder, just to make sure it's not the decoder. If it's not the decoder (and I guess it's not) then you should run some profiling tool which records CPU consumption during video playback. Then when you get these frame drops, stop playback and check whether the profiling tool has recorded 100% CPU consumption shortly before.
The decoder queue is supposed to stay nearly full (at least 8/12) at all times."

One minute of the tested file can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1rja6beiptppzq8

What makes the decoder to constantly decode frames and delivering full queue to the renderer? What causes that some frames decoding is delayed and the decoding queue goes from 12-11-10-...3-2-1 to 0 and causes presentation issues? Madshi hinted to my CPU utilisation, but with softcubic 80, spline 4, spline 4 it is 10percent on my i7980X:). CPU is not downclocking, GPU is not downclocking.

Thanks for your opinion.
Pluto

PS: The best results so far ( 0 dropped frames ) I got with Microsoft DTV DVD Video Decoder ( decoder queue is constantly 11-12/12 ), but need to test full movie with that yet and compare results with other decoders. Other decoders behave more unstable - occasional small drops in frame decoding increases the risk of presentation issues.

[pankov]

Nev,
did I miss your answer or you missed my question there ... or you simply prefer not to answer it right now?
I understand - you are personally ignoring me.
...
Just kidding
;)

Now that madVR supports DXVA deinterlacing I'll no longer bother you with that question.

[SamuriHL]

ROFLMAO :) Honestly speaking, to me it makes sense to have the deinterlacing done by the renderer. Truly awesome. Now, that being said, there may be some cases where yadif in the decoder might make sense for some people. I'm definitely covered on both machines now. Absolutely wonderful!

[Pix]

I noticed a problem. Don't know if it has been mentioned before.
.mkv files that have video/audio(don't know which of these causes the problem) stream set to "Default track flag:" -> 'Yes' during muxing(mkvmerge) with chapters aren't seekable/using seekbar is insanely difficult.
When I want to jump to the 2nd/3rd/etc chapter the whole video freezes. After 30-180 seconds the audio starts but the picture stays frozen and if I click on the same spot on the seekbar, sometimes, video continues to play.
If I try to glide the button on the seekbar - doesn't work. The video freezes, button is positioned on a new spot but the video isn't playing.

I did make sure that it wasn't something else. I changed the renderers, decoders, tried several different combinations.
When I changed the Splitter the problem disappeared. I changed the "Default track flag:" -> 'default' during muxing and the problem also disappeared.
Do take in mind that files with "Default track flag:" -> 'Yes' that have no chapters also don't have the problem.

Any settings I might be using that caused the problem?

[madshi]

there may be some cases where yadif in the decoder might make sense for some people.
Which cases? For people who want to post process with AviSynth? If they want to do that, they have to use the ffdshow raw video processor (or ffdshow video decoder), anyway, cause that's the only way to access AviSynth in DirectShow. So why then not using ffdshow's yadif deinterlacer?

There's another problem: yadif is a pure video mode deinterlacer, it's not meant to be used for movies. So it's only half of a deinterlacer solution. For movie content you need IVTC. When talking about IVTC, there are a multitude of cadences. IVTCing just NTSC's 3:2 is pretty easy. But what about PAL's 2:2? Much more difficult, because there are no duplicate fields. Then there are various Anime cadences. Then there are bad edits. Finally, broadcasts sometimes have mixed video + movie content. With such content you need to deinterlace some parts of the frame with yadif and some with IVTC. In order to make that possible, you need an automatic per pixel video vs movie type detection, which is extremely hard to get right, especially with PAL content. Deinterlacing is a very very complex and difficult topic.

Of course I don't want to stop nevcairiel from adding deinterlacing to LAV Video Decoder, I'm just wondering whether it's really worth his time, considering the complexity involved in creating a "complete" solution.

DXVA deinterlacing has the luxury of having most of these problems already covered. Ok, I'm not sure how good all of these ATI/NVidia algorithms are, but in theory they should do all what I described above, including mixed video/movie content, minus decimation, however.

[SamuriHL]

Please don't misunderstand me, madshi, I personally don't know of any situations where yadif would be preferred. IMO, hardware deinterlacing always beats software deinterlacing. I made that statement because there could be cases that I'm not aware of that MIGHT make sense. I can't think of any. :) Personally, I'm EXTREMELY pleased. In fact, I want to test using CUVID for decoding and madVR's DXVA for deinterlacing on my nVidia machine when I get a chance. I don't know if it'll make any difference at all, but, I do believe that deinterlacing belongs in the renderer. That's a personal opinion, so, if others don't agree, I'm ok with that. :) Nonetheless, I'm completely covered now on both machines. LAV Splitter, LAV Audio with DTS-HD MA decoding, LAV Video (with CUVID on my nVidia box), and now DXVA deinterlacing for hardware deinterlacing on my AMD machine. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa. :) Thank you to both you and Nev!

[madshi]

Well, if people do want to post process with AviSynth, they will have to deinterlace outside of the renderer, because most post processing algorithms (e.g. scaling) require progressive video. So there are arguments for offering deinterlacing in a DirectShow filter other than the renderer. Maybe in the long run all post processing can be moved to pixel shaders? Not sure...

[SamuriHL]

That would be nice. I don't do any post processing at all on my machines. My requirements are very simple...decode the video and audio without messing around with it unless it's necessary, render both at the highest possible quality, and if necessary, using a ReClock like functionality to keep everything smooth. I have all that now with hardware deinterlacing. Absolutely phenomenal IMO. :) The comment I made in reference to having a software deinterlacer maybe being preferable was exactly for the people who have far higher requirements and more complex environments than me. I just don't know where they might need software deinterlacing. I don't, so, I'm now happy. And everything works PERFECTLY in my favorite player. I can't ask for better. :)

[asasadad_1]

What exactly is supposed to be the problem?
Seems to play just fine.

Part of the sound has disappeared,Sound and image are not synchronized.anyway,if ffdshow audio decoder being used,you will find the clear difference.

[Aleksoid1978]

Hi nevcairiel.
A see that you set Interlace flag after parse header and if video is Interlace.
But - VC-1 stream on HD-DVD always have interlace flag set to true, even if is progressive.
Link to example - http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/530/HD-DVD_Demo_1080p_VC-1_DDPlus_5.1.html

[STaRGaZeR]

Of course I don't want to stop nevcairiel from adding deinterlacing to LAV Video Decoder, I'm just wondering whether it's really worth his time, considering the complexity involved in creating a "complete" solution.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the case here :sly:

[Mangix]

is there any way to downmix 6 hannels to 2? i ask because my TV accepts only 2 channel PCM and 6 channel ac3.

[nevcairiel]

Hi nevcairiel.
A see that you set Interlace flag after parse header and if video is Interlace.
But - VC-1 stream on HD-DVD always have interlace flag set to true, even if is progressive.
Link to example - http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/530/HD-DVD_Demo_1080p_VC-1_DDPlus_5.1.html

So?
Thats not avoidable, and doesn't really hurt.
These flags are only not set if i'm 100% sure that the content is progressive and nothing else - and with VC-1 on EVO you just cannot be sure.


I understand - you are personally ignoring me.
...
Just kidding
;)

Now that madVR supports DXVA deinterlacing I'll no longer bother you with that question.
Didn't i post some test versions here? Anyhow, it did work fine, at least for NVIDIA, on AMD/ATI it was too slow. madVR has the advantage that it doesn't need to download the image from the GPU anymore, it can just keep it on there. :)
But as you noted, its no longer required to have it.


Which cases? For people who want to post process with AviSynth? If they want to do that, they have to use the ffdshow raw video processor (or ffdshow video decoder), anyway, cause that's the only way to access AviSynth in DirectShow. So why then not using ffdshow's yadif deinterlacer?
I can think of some cases, where you want to transcode and need progressive video, but don't want to go all out on adding ffdshow as a post-processor for simplicity - or with a renderer that just doesn't do deinterlacing still (Haali, Overlay, etc). I'm still considering implementing it, its really not much work, but i guess the time table got pushed back a bit.

[madshi]

Yeah, I'm sure that's the case here :sly:
Huh ? :confused:

[nevcairiel]

Part of the sound has disappeared,Sound and image are not synchronized.anyway,if ffdshow audio decoder being used,you will find the clear difference.

I did not notice any problems with the file, seems to play just fine.

[PeQuE]

Hi nevcariel,

I've uploaded a video (in fact, recorded mpeg2 TV .ts) that Lav Video is failing at deinterlacing from time to time.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15222696/MP_20111005_18-05_Bar%C3%A7a%20TV_Temps%20de%20joc.%20La%20Lliga.ts

As a side comment, Win7 MS DVB included codec for MPEG2 is also failing the same way, while Cyberlink (9 & 11) Video/SP Decoder is doing it well.

Hope you can take a look.

Thanks a lot!

Hi nevcariel!

Did you finally had the time to take a look at that video?

Thanks a lot.

[asasadad_1]

I did not notice any problems with the file, seems to play just fine.

I have found what caused the difference between ffdshow audio decoder and lav audio decoder.
"Mixer→output speakers configuration→2/0/0-stereo" is my default ffdshow audio decoder configuration,it works fine with that sample.
If I unckeck "Mixer" in ffdshow audio decoder configuration,it has the same performance with LAV Audio Decoder(part of the audio has disappeared,audio and video are not synchronized).
Thank you nev for looked into that sample:thanks:.

[andyvt]

Which cases?

Transcoding.

[SamuriHL]

See I knew someone somewhere would have a use case where non-rendering deinterlacing might be preferred. :D

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.39

LAV Splitter
- Fixed a bug that caused MPEG-2 and VC-1 parsers to produce wrong timestamps after a seek
- Fixed playback of raw .h264 files

LAV Video
- NV12 is now the preferred YUV 4:2:0 output format
- Fixed handling of the "As Input" RGB output setting
- Improved VP6 cropping
- Don't report completely progressive movies as interlaced to the renderer
- Fixed playback of some broken MPEG-2 MKV muxes
- RGB will now by default be offered as Bottom-Up instead of Top-Down for improved compatibility


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.39.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.39.zip) & 64-bit (http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.39-x64.zip)

Before anyone asks again "Why NV12?" - its quite simple: Hardware post-processing usually requires the video to be in NV12, and especially on ATI only NV12 is accepted. Since there are no downsides to using NV12, it just makes more sense.

Another quick note, as a consequence of now trying to figure out if a movie is interlaced or not, the option to disable interlaced flagging has been removed.
Also, if you find a movie that was deinterlaced properly before, but now fails, please report those.

Have fun.

[fastplayer]

You can pretty much release after every commit! :p
The trunk builds have been very stable so far. *knock on wood*
:thanks:

[ikarad]

Which cases? For people who want to post process with AviSynth? If they want to do that, they have to use the ffdshow raw video processor (or ffdshow video decoder), anyway, cause that's the only way to access AviSynth in DirectShow. So why then not using ffdshow's yadif deinterlacer?

There's another problem: yadif is a pure video mode deinterlacer, it's not meant to be used for movies. So it's only half of a deinterlacer solution. For movie content you need IVTC. When talking about IVTC, there are a multitude of cadences. IVTCing just NTSC's 3:2 is pretty easy. But what about PAL's 2:2? Much more difficult, because there are no duplicate fields. Then there are various Anime cadences. Then there are bad edits. Finally, broadcasts sometimes have mixed video + movie content. With such content you need to deinterlace some parts of the frame with yadif and some with IVTC. In order to make that possible, you need an automatic per pixel video vs movie type detection, which is extremely hard to get right, especially with PAL content. Deinterlacing is a very very complex and difficult topic.

Of course I don't want to stop nevcairiel from adding deinterlacing to LAV Video Decoder, I'm just wondering whether it's really worth his time, considering the complexity involved in creating a "complete" solution.

DXVA deinterlacing has the luxury of having most of these problems already covered. Ok, I'm not sure how good all of these ATI/NVidia algorithms are, but in theory they should do all what I described above, including mixed video/movie content, minus decimation, however.
DXVA don't make IVTC deinterlacing.

I try since two years with mpc-hc or ffdshow and it doesn't work. (I have gtx285)

To use IVTC the only thing that works is the use of avisynth IVTC filter like decomb or TIVTC.

Do you expect to add IVTC filter in madvr?

[Dogway]

Now I don't know whether you missed my suggestion, you read it and added it to the todo list, or you read it but dismissed it

[nevcairiel]

Now I don't know whether you missed my suggestion, you read it and added it to the todo list, or you read it but dismissed it

The one on audio delay?
I didn't really know what you wanted. Its already possible to change it on the fly. Change the option, new delay applies (after clicking apply).

If you want even better "on the fly", use MPC-HCs delay option, you can just press the numblock +/- keys to change it.

[cremor]

"Orchestra (Long) (Lossless)" and "Orchestra (Short) (Lossless)" from here (http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php) are reported as interlaced during playback (and even on that website) but they drop and delay a lot of frames using deinterlacing (madVR 0.78) and look a lot better without deinterlacing, so I assume they are progressive.
Anything the splitter/decoder can do here or were they just encoded wrong?

Btw, nothing new in 0.39, is the same in 0.38.

[Dogway]

Yes, you are right it works. It wasn't working for me because I had ffdshow audio processor after lav audio, I have that principally for audio downmix and volume booster. I by default disable audio switcher module as I can already do audio delay on lav audio. Thanks for the help.

[madshi]

DXVA don't make IVTC deinterlacing.
DXVA does do IVTC, kind of, but with limitations. There are 2 key problems with DXVA IVTC, from what I can see:

(1) The current VMR, EVR and madVR implementations of DXVA deinterlacing "blindly" trust the video bitstream flags. That works well for some DVDs/broadcasts, but not for all. The better solution would be to distrust the flags. This is currently not done by any renderer using DXVA, as far as I can say. I might implement that in madVR in a future version.

(2) There's no support for decimation in DXVA1/2, so the output will be 60p, not 24p. I've seen that there may be some sort of support for frame rate changes and maybe decimation in DXVA-HD, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway, this is probably a bit out of topic here, so let's not let get this into a lengthy discussion.

[CruNcher]

Wait wait

how can this be then http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?d0bg6khk2lk8bjl ???

[Boo]

I had some trouble playing this file: http://www.mediafire.com/?t52j52cp1v4gw96 (xvid AVI with max_bframes 0)
with MPC-HC - LAV Splitter, Video, Audio and madVR.

I can play the file with other renderers (Haali, EVR etc.)

But I wanted to be able to use madVR with Lav Filters so I started trying different settings.

I narrowed it down to the 'Threads' setting in the LAV Video Decoder.
I can play the file If I set threads to '1' aything else is a no go.

Am I the only one with this strange behaviour?

[mindbomb]

hi nev.
My friend claims that whenever he muxes something large with mkvmerge, the resulting mkv file is unseekable with lav splitter.
It appears there is nothing remarkable about his mkvmerge settings, but I may be wrong about that.
He muxes with an mkvmerge build for linux.

Is there anything in lav splitters mkv handling that could result in problems with files over 4 gigs?
I know this isn't a lot to go on, but it is hard to get samples for very large files.

Haali and mpc matroska filter have no issues with these files.

[Shark007]

10bit decoding seems to be broken with the .39 release.

[nevcairiel]

10bit decoding seems to be broken with the .39 release.

I cannot reproduce any issues with the 2 10-bit samples i happen to have on my laptop with me.

[golagoda]

I've been able to play 10-bit video perfectly fine also, and have heaps of 10-bit encodes which I just tested and all worked fine. Must be something wrong on your end Shark.

[pankov]

nev,
sorry to bring up such an old problem but could you take a look at the problem we discussed a few months ago here
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1498358&postcount=2509
and here
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1498551&postcount=2546
and finally here
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1498701&postcount=2570
you say you'll look into it but I can't find if you fixed it. I tried testing with older version but strangely I can't make them work on my PC !?!? (very strange but I'll dig into it later).
The real problem is that the latest versions (0.38 and 0.39 at least) still (or again) don't work on these samples.
(btw if you didn't store the PM with the FTP details I can send them again)

[nevcairiel]

Are those the fashion week videos? They used to work just fine, did that change?
I can test them when i get back home.

[pankov]

yes,
they are.
Currently they don't work .... but I'm not 100% sure they were before.
If you need me I'll try to test with older versions and report back but this can happen tonight when I get back home.

[nevcairiel]

I may actually have found the reason for it, some sneaky changes in ffmpeg might've broken my own sneaky changes to allow seeking in such files.
I'll check it out in detail later. It probably broke with 0.38.

[pankov]

You are right - 0.37 works fine
:)
sorry for doubting that you've actually fixed it before

[Shark007]

I cannot reproduce any issues with the 2 10-bit samples i happen to have on my laptop with me.

OK - this is what happens when I give bug reports just before going to bed.
I can confirm, the problem is/was with my setup and NOT with the LAV filters.

Thanks for checking into this nev, and especially thanks, for your time.

[TheShadowRunner]

Hi nev, just wanted to thank you again for finishing the job on the VP6 cropping issue.
With 0.39's Video Decoder, no more issues whatsoever regardless if I use LAV splitter or Gabest's FLVSplitter.

[nevcairiel]

You are right - 0.37 works fine
:)
sorry for doubting that you've actually fixed it before

For the record, its fixed again. :p

Hi nev, just wanted to thank you again for finishing the job on the VP6 cropping issue.
With 0.39's Video Decoder, no more issues whatsoever regardless if I use LAV splitter or Gabest's FLVSplitter.

Good to know its working fine now.

[PeQuE]

Hi nevcariel,

I've uploaded a video (in fact, recorded mpeg2 TV .ts) that Lav Video is failing at deinterlacing from time to time.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15222696/MP_20111005_18-05_Bar%C3%A7a%20TV_Temps%20de%20joc.%20La%20Lliga.ts

As a side comment, Win7 MS DVB included codec for MPEG2 is also failing the same way, while Cyberlink (9 & 11) Video/SP Decoder is doing it well.

Hope you can take a look.

Thanks a lot!

Sorry to bother you again in few days... but... Did you give a try to that video when you came back from vacation? It's the only tiny bug preventing me to finally use Lav Video as all-terrain decoder (live TV included)...

Thanks a lot nevcariel.

[nevcairiel]

Sorry to bother you again in few days... but... Did you give a try to that video when you came back from vacation? It's the only tiny bug preventing me to finally use Lav Video as all-terrain decoder (live TV included)...

Thanks a lot nevcariel.

I answered you before on that video. Its just a broken encode. Half of the frames are marked progressive - or at least seem to be.
I still have some small things to check, but all in all it doesn't look good.

I could try to offer "aggressive" deinterlacing, which means if MPEG2 is marked as interlaced, it would always treat all frames as interlaced.

[ikarad]

DXVA does do IVTC, kind of, but with limitations. There are 2 key problems with DXVA IVTC, from what I can see:

(1) The current VMR, EVR and madVR implementations of DXVA deinterlacing "blindly" trust the video bitstream flags. That works well for some DVDs/broadcasts, but not for all. The better solution would be to distrust the flags. This is currently not done by any renderer using DXVA, as far as I can say. I might implement that in madVR in a future version.

(2) There's no support for decimation in DXVA1/2, so the output will be 60p, not 24p. I've seen that there may be some sort of support for frame rate changes and maybe decimation in DXVA-HD, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway, this is probably a bit out of topic here, so let's not let get this into a lengthy discussion.
Thanks.
The problem is that ivtc without decimation is very bad.
Do you expect to add decimation and ivtc filter in madvr like decomb ou tivtc filter with avisynth?

Without a IVTC filter with decimation, I must always use ffdshow for interlaced movies

[nevcairiel]

Without a IVTC filter with decimation, I must always use ffdshow for interlaced movies

That line really makes no sense whatsoever. If you decimate a interlaced movie, the results will probably be kinda funny.

[ikarad]

That line really makes no sense whatsoever. If you decimate a interlaced movie, the results will probably be kinda funny.

Although it's very good (or maybe I misundertsanding what means decimation).

Using decimation for interlaced movies is very good (that allow to have the original 24p and not a bad 30p).

I use Decomb filter with decimate (decimate allow to have 24p instead of 30 ip) in avisynth with ffdshow.p instead of

Maybe I misunderstanding what means decimation for madshi.

[nevcairiel]

Using decimation for interlaced movies is very good

No, its not. Interlaced movies are meant to be watched at 50p or 60p.

What you mean are telecined movies, it has nothing to do with interlaced movies at all.

[ikarad]

No, its not. Interlaced movies are meant to be watched at 50p or 60p.

What you mean are telecined movies, it has nothing to do with interlaced movies at all.

Sorry, I speak about telecined movies (I never had interlaced movie as you described) .

But telecined and interlaced is not the same thing in english?

In french, it means the same thing. We say "entrelacé" for telecined movies and interlaced movies.

[nevcairiel]

Interlaced and telecine is not the same, in any language. If your language does not have a word for it, then use the english word.

IVTC stands for "Inverse Telecine". It has nothing to do with deinterlacing, its a completely different process.

[ikarad]

Interlaced and telecine is not the same, in any language. If your language does not have a word for it, then use the english word.

IVTC stands for "Inverse Telecine". It has nothing to do with deinterlacing, its a completely different process.

Thanks.
It's a problem of language in french.

one question: Can I expect a IVTC filter integrated in lav filter to avoid to use ffdshow?

[PeQuE]

I answered you before on that video. Its just a broken encode. Half of the frames are marked progressive - or at least seem to be.
I still have some small things to check, but all in all it doesn't look good.

I could try to offer "aggressive" deinterlacing, which means if MPEG2 is marked as interlaced, it would always treat all frames as interlaced.
Sorry. I didn't see your answer. Sorry again.

I'm not an expert, but I was sure our broadcasters here in Spain are sending something closer to just crap that anything else... I have not a single problem watching any foreing sat channel using my HTPC, while watching almost any dvb-t Spain channels with a minimum of quality has been a very difficult goar for many years...

So, thanks in advance for anything you can do to try to handle that little "crap" inside your decoder. Seems good to treat as interlaced anything marked so, even with progressive frames inside.

Thanks nevcariel. I'll try any new release, hoping to see that new feature implemented.

[rica]

Hi nev.

Normally pcm files muxed to m2ts need a decoder while they don't need any decoder when they are muxed into an mkv container.
I can directly connect those PCM_mkv files to ReClock via Haali or MPC matroska splitter and no issues.

But when i use Lav Splitter, even directshow automatically connects the audio pin to ReClock (btw ReClock is configured to bitexact streaming see: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1534720&postcount=188) i get this popout and no sound at all:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2678/notsupported.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/notsupported.png/)

And i need to use a decoder like lavaudio or ffdshow.

Here is a test file:

96_24 pcm mkv:

http://www.mediafire.com/?het2xcoug60hvni

Thanks in advance.

[Skwelcha]

i don't know if its just me, but i cant play TrueHD tracks anymore if they are in a mkv container. There are no problems in m2ts container, tried LAV and Haali as the Splitter and with LAV splitter it's fine, just with Haali there are problems. Could someone check/confirm that?

[Pat357]

But when i use Lav Splitter, even directshow automatically connects the audio pin to ReClock (btw ReClock is configured to bitexact streaming see: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1534720&postcount=188) i get this popout and no sound at all:
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2678/notsupported.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/notsupported.png/)

And i need to use a decoder like lavaudio or ffdshow.


Your sound is not configured/not able to to handle 6ch PCM 32b @96 kHz.
Try to adjust the settings from your sound to do so or configure Reclock to make 24bit PCM.
I assume you not downmixing to stereo in FFDshow , are you ?.

First go to configure Reclock and set it to "24 padded in 32"' (first tab,look at PCM output)
You could also uncheck 32bit and 32bit float in Lavaudio, depending on your config, that could solve your problem already.

If you still get an error, your sound doesn't support 96kHz : configure reclock to output only 48 kHz sample rate.

[robpdotcom]

i don't know if its just me, but i cant play TrueHD tracks anymore if they are in a mkv container. There are no problems in m2ts container, tried LAV and Haali as the Splitter and with LAV splitter it's fine, just with Haali there are problems. Could someone check/confirm that?

This has been brought up before. The problem is with Haali, not LAV.

[Pat357]

Nev, when I use the installer, I do not get a chance to give a directory for installation. It just overwrites the existing install.
This makes it more cumbersome to go back to a previous version to test something...
IIRC, Lavfilters have asked for a installation directory in the past, like 2 or 3 versions back (like 0.36 and before)
Could you re-implement this in the installer ?

[fastplayer]

Nev, when I use the installer, I do not get a chance to give a directory for installation. It just overwrites the existing install.
That's how updating is supposed to be. If you wanna change the install directory, use the /DIR="full path" parameter for the setup executable.
Could you re-implement this in the installer ?
Please, don't.

[rica]

Your sound is not configured/not able to to handle 6ch PCM 32b @96 kHz.
Try to adjust the settings from your sound to do so or configure Reclock to make 24bit PCM.
I assume you not downmixing to stereo in FFDshow , are you ?.

First go to configure Reclock and set it to "24 padded in 32"' (first tab,look at PCM output)
You could also uncheck 32bit and 32bit float in Lavaudio, depending on your config, that could solve your problem already.

If you still get an error, your sound doesn't support 96kHz : configure reclock to output only 48 kHz sample rate.

Thank you but as i pointed out with same HW and same configuration of ReClock and using the same pcm mkv (i added a sample file on my previous post) if i use Haali or MPC Matroska splitter. audio pin directly connects to ReClock (without any audio decoder) and i listen bitexact 96-24 streaming. (BTW reclock already configured to 24 bit int padded to 32)

[nevcairiel]

Should be fixed for the next version. Raw PCM was not getting the appropriate media type in some cases.

[rica]

Should be fixed for the next version. Raw PCM was not getting the appropriate media type in some cases.

Thank you :thanks:


Additional note: If you select "waveout" option instead of "wasapi", Lav Splitter directly connected to ReClock but this time it's not bitexact, it falls to wasapi shared mode sure. Please try with my sample file.

[pankov]

Nev,
I've been doing some testing on madVR's deinterlacing and I discovered that when I use CUVID Acceleration and I set Deinterlacing to "None (Weave)" I don't get deinterlacing in madVR - it says "deinterlacing off (says upstream)". It also doesn't work with EVR.
It seams like using this option doesn't pass the interlaced flags to the renderer.
Is this by design?
How can I get hardware acceleration for the decoding and EVR/madVR deinterlacing at the same time? I'm performing some GPU/VPU Load testing and I'd like to compare CUVID to the MS DTV-DVD Video Decoder and also madVR to EVR deinterlacing.

[sneaker_ger]

Nev,
I've been doing some testing on madVR's deinterlacing and I discovered that when I use CUVID Acceleration and I set Deinterlacing to "None (Weave)" I don't get deinterlacing in madVR - it says "deinterlacing off (says upstream)". It also doesn't work with EVR.
It seams like using this option doesn't pass the interlaced flags to the renderer.
Is this by design?
How can I get hardware acceleration for the decoding and EVR/madVR deinterlacing at the same time? I'm performing some GPU/VPU Load testing and I'd like to compare CUVID to the MS DTV-DVD Video Decoder and also madVR to EVR deinterlacing.

Press CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+D ?

[pooboy]

I'm currently testing LAV Filter 0.39 with KMPlayer 3.0.0.1442 R2 and it shows a black screen with any 720p/1080p h.264 video if CUVID acceleration is enabled. No black screen at all with standalone LAV CUVID 0.13

[golagoda]

I'm currently testing LAV Filter 0.39 with KMPlayer 3.0.0.1442 R2 and it shows a black screen with any 720p/1080p h.264 video if CUVID acceleration is enabled. No black screen at all with standalone LAV CUVID 0.13

Does it work fine with any other players or just KMPlayer?

[andybkma]

Hi, just a feature request. If possible can you add "Select All" and "Select None" buttons to the installer on the part where you select which codecs/splitters to checkmark during the install process? That would make installation much faster and easier as some of us use LAV Filters for only one codec and/or splitter. In my case, just your excellent H264 Cuvid.

Thanks for your kind attention...

[asasadad_1]

LAV Splitter works bad on some CDXA/MPEG-PS files,mpc-hc internal MPEG splitter works fine.
sample (http://uploading.com/files/bb8caama/AVSEQ08.DAT/).

[pankov]

Press CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+D ?
Yes, I know I can force madVR to do deinterlacing and I've done it already but AFAIK there is no way to do it with EVR, right?
Also you'll have to agree with me that it's not something that can be used on a daily bases.
The question is why LAV Decoder in software mode is setting the correct interlaced flags and not in CUVID mode.
... or am I misunderstanding what "None (Weave)" should mean?

[pooboy]

Does it work fine with any other players or just KMPlayer?Haven´t tested other players yet.

[psymed]

By any chance, would the deinterlacing use more cpu or just gpu?

[nevcairiel]

when I use CUVID Acceleration and I set Deinterlacing to "None (Weave)" I don't get deinterlacing in madVR - it says "deinterlacing off (says upstream)". It also doesn't work with EVR.
It seams like using this option doesn't pass the interlaced flags to the renderer.
Is this by design?

There was some silly logic error that checked the condition wrong, it was fixed now.

[roytam1]

new nightly:
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111110-rv34seekkeyframe-6bfdb44.7z

diff (RV30/RV40 seek to key frame):
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111110-rv34seekkeyframe-6bfdb44.diff

[nevcairiel]

diff (RV30/RV40 seek to key frame):
http://roy.orz.hm/lavf-w32-nightlies/lavf-my111110-rv34seekkeyframe-6bfdb44.diff

I thought that was causing freezes? :p

[roytam1]

I thought that was causing freezes? :p

It doesn't from my testings. But sometimes seeking RV30/RV40 clips may cause a mute.

[pooboy]

Does it work fine with any other players or just KMPlayer?I just tested LAV Video 0.39 and LAV CUVID 0.13 with latest MPC HC and both work fine with cuvid acceleration. Damn.

* Found the culprit: changing from internal mp4/mov/mkv splitters to LAV Splitter or any other splitter fixes the black screen problem. However as i said before, the LAV CUVID 0.13 works fine without having to change splitters.

[Weirdo]

Is there a known issue with DVDViewer Pro (4.9)? When switching channels, many times the picture is frozen (to the previous channel) or I get a black screen. This only happens with LAV Video (0.39). (Microsoft Decoder & CoreAVC ok). "Rebuild Graph" from DVBV fixes it.

update: unchecking DVBViewer Filter's audio/video "TV/Radio Pre-Format Detection" seems to fix it. (channel switching becomes a bit slower)

[oddball]

How do I get forced subs in MKV's to display when subs are off by default in MPC-HC?

EDIT: Nevermind. Amnesia has set in (must be early alzheimers). I'm still waiting for a new version of the splitter so I can keep subs on in MPC and only have it display full subs for certain languages and forced for everything else.

[glorp]

I'm still waiting for a new version of the splitter so I can keep subs on in MPC and only have it display full subs for certain languages and forced for everything else.

That would be the Advanced subs option in version 0.38 and beyond.

[sneaker_ger]

OK did not realize there was a new version out. What is the option to enable full English subs for all non-English audio and English forced subs for all audio?

I don't know if that is exactly possible (full subs include forced), but this will probably suffice:
subtitles: "eng:eng|f;eng:off;*:eng"

@nevcairiel
Maybe it would make sense to:
- allow to select all but e.g. English: "!eng:eng"
- apply the audio selection order to the "*" symbol

[oddball]

Thanks. I did not notice there was a new build. Default works just fine now! :)

[nevcairiel]

- allow to select all but e.g. English: "!eng:eng"
That would make some things easier, although i doubt it adds functions that don't work right now - you can just use more logical rules. :) I'll consider it.


- apply the audio selection order to the "*" symbol
Not sure what you mean with that?
In something like this: "eng:*" - it should select the subtitles that match the audio language first? That doesn't really fit into my current design - its supposed to do exactly that you wrote down, and nothing else.

[glorp]

but this will probably suffice:
subtitles: "eng:eng|f;eng:off;*:eng"


I think
"eng:eng|f;eng: off;*:eng;*:*|f

is a little closer. With one minor tweak of also handling the case for eng:und, that's what I use myself.

[cremor]

"Orchestra (Long) (Lossless)" and "Orchestra (Short) (Lossless)" from here (http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php) are reported as interlaced during playback (and even on that website) but they drop and delay a lot of frames using deinterlacing (madVR 0.78) and look a lot better without deinterlacing, so I assume they are progressive.
Anything the splitter/decoder can do here or were they just encoded wrong?

Btw, nothing new in 0.39, is the same in 0.38.

nevcairiel, did you have time to look at these yet?
It's not important, I'm just wondering (from a technical point of view).

[sneaker_ger]

Not sure what you mean with that?
In something like this: "eng:*" - it should select the subtitles that match the audio language first?

No, not the current audio language, but the first audio language in the audio selection field.

I'll make an example. User X's mother tongue is Korean. He also knows some decent Japanese and some English.

In audio he will put: kor,jpn,eng

Now he wants to only select forced subs for his known languages, i.e. subtitle selection:
*:kor|f;kor:off;*:jpn|f;jpn:off;*:eng|f;eng:off

If it would be guaranteed that the * selection is applied in the audio order, he could simply write:
*:*|f;*:off

I think it makes sense to first select the subtitles the user put in his audio field, because those are the ones that he is most likely to understand. And in the order of his understanding.

This example is probably not the best, as those selections are not exactly the same and are not that much work to fully write out.

The following extension is better, almost perfect, IMHO:

[A] would only be the languages put in the audio field (including the order).
* would be all languages, but first those in the audio field (including the order), then "und" and then the rest

example:
[A]:[A]|f;[A]:off;![A]:*

This would be:
1.) if the audio language is known to the user, select only a forced track in a language the user knows and in the order given in the audio field.
2.) If the audio language is known, but there is no forced track in any language known to the user, do not select any subtitles.
3.) If the audio language is unknown to the user, activate any subtitle, preferably those in the audio field (and in that order), if those are not there the first track with undefined language (could be a known language), and only after that one of the definitely unknown languages.

(Actually I think that my example should be the default mode. Makes the most sense. But may be just me, of course...)


---
To something different:

I know I asked before, but you didn't wrote what you thought of it: Many people do not use the forced flag in Matroska, due to its either too strict meaning or too vague description. (Mosu has wrote something about that in his thread, 99% of the people are not using the flags as the spec mandates.)
So what do you think about searching the subtitle name for the string "forced" instead just for the forced flag?

[nevcairiel]

nevcairiel, did you have time to look at these yet?
It's not important, I'm just wondering (from a technical point of view).

The file is not purely interlaced, its coded as MBAFF, which means every macroblock can individually be interlaced or progressive.
Its 30fps, which a deinterlacer turns into 60fps. Not sure why it would drop frames for you, mine didn't (on a 60Hz screen).

Not sure i can see a image quality difference between deinterlacing or not.

[sneaker_ger]

Addition:
In my last post I forgot that LAV Splitter only handles the subtitle selection in an "advanced" mode, not both subtitle and audio, like Haali. This can lead to situations, where the selection is far from "perfect" with my proposal. E.g. for audio languages that are in an unknown language, but you prefer them anyways, because they are the original audio (like many anime viewers not understanding Japanese, but want to watch in Japanese audio anyways). To make it proper it would be required to leave the complete selection to the advanced mode or create more than just one group [A], [B], [C], or at least two groups. Still, implementing my last proposal would still be an improvement over the current situation, even if multiple groups might be too complicated.

[nevcairiel]

Not selecting audio through the advanced mode was a conscious decision, and i do not plan to change that.
I can consider adding another special group which means "audio languages, in order", but i fear that just makes it more complicated with very few people actually using it.

[nevcairiel]

Here is a test build with some new deinterlacing changes:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.39-15-g905db7d.zip

Bulletpoint changes:
- Changed "Field Order" and "Force Deinterlacing" to global options
- Added "Aggressive Deinterlacing" option

That means that all those options not only apply to the CUVID deinterlacer now, but also to deinterlacing when its done in the renderer.

Aggressive deinterlacing is similar to CoreAVCs aggressive checkbox - it forces deinterlacing if the stream indicates interlaced coding is used, even if not all frames are coded as such. Alot of broadcasts seem to be broken that way.

Force Deinterlacing foces deinterlacing on all streams, even if the whole stream is marked progressive. Not sure that option is still needed, i have no sample which would require it.

@PeQuE:
Aggressive Deinterlacing should probably make your stuff play properly.

[cremor]

The file is not purely interlaced, its coded as MBAFF, which means every macroblock can individually be interlaced or progressive.
Its 30fps, which a deinterlacer turns into 60fps. Not sure why it would drop frames for you, mine didn't (on a 60Hz screen).

Not sure i can see a image quality difference between deinterlacing or not.

Ok, thanks. Then I assume the problem comes from the madVR deinterlacing since I have problems with that with other interlaced files too.

Another question:
Should playback speeds other than 1x work with LAV in MPC-HC? I used that feature some times back in the days I still used MPC-HC internal splitters and decoders but now I get some weird problems, e.g. sound breaks every few seconds.

[nevcairiel]

Another question:
Should playback speeds other than 1x work with LAV in MPC-HC? I used that feature some times back in the days I still used MPC-HC internal splitters and decoders but now I get some weird problems, e.g. sound breaks every few seconds.

I didn't really implement that, no. Sometimes it works anyway however, so thats weird, not sure how that is supposed to work anyway. :)
I always thought the renderers just play stuff faster, but i really have no idea, its not a feature i ever used. :P

[cremor]

I didn't really implement that, no. Sometimes it works anyway however, so thats weird, not sure how that is supposed to work anyway. :)

Ok, then I'll just watch the videos at the speed they are supposed to be watched ;)
Thanks for the information.

[sneaker_ger]

Not selecting audio through the advanced mode was a conscious decision, and i do not plan to change that.

I see.

I can consider adding another special group which means "audio languages, in order", but i fear that just makes it more complicated with very few people actually using it.

Well, it is called "advanced" for a reason.
But would you agree that first selecting the languages in the audio field (and in that order) for the "*" operator makes more sense than just selecting the subtitle by alphabet?

I guess all it needs are two groups, but I have to think about it some more, or I'll overlook something important again. Maybe I should try to write a patch as I have some more ideas for the selection.

[nevcairiel]

But would you agree that first selecting the languages in the audio field (and in that order) for the "*" operator makes more sense than just selecting the subtitle by alphabet?
Its not by alphabet, its by order in the file. :p
Anyhow, i considered that before, but didn't implement it because it would've bloated up the logic. Although now that i think about it, not that much.

How it works is simple - every entry just gets converted into a structure which holds the same information as the tag, just parsed for easier access. These structures just get iterated over and matched against subtitle streams. Since there is no tag with special powers, this is easy.

To implement the "*" thing, i would probably just replace the * entry with multiple entries, one for each audio language. Its not that complicated, i guess.

Consider:
Audio: jpn,eng
Subtitle: *:*|f

would translate internally to: *:jpn|f;*:eng|f;*:*|f

This is what you want, right?
I could consider prefering "und" over "*", if thats actually how files work. Do they have some streams with a language and others without?

Anyhow, i'm going to sleep, feel free to summarize your ideas or even provide patches, i'll look at it tomorrow or on the weekend.

[sneaker_ger]

Consider:
Audio: jpn,eng
Subtitle: *:*|f

would translate internally to: *:jpn|f;*:eng|f;*:*|f

This is what you want, right?

Correct.

I could consider prefering "und" over "*", if thats actually how files work. Do they have some streams with a language and others without?

It's not that I think that it is important. It's just that the probability of an "und" track being in a language known to the user is higher, than for a track in a language the user hasn't defined in the selector. It's the strawberry on top of the cake, not really vital.

Anyhow, i'm going to sleep, feel free to summarize your ideas or even provide patches, i'll look at it tomorrow or on the weekend.

I'll give it some thought, though I don't know when (or if) I'll come to a conclusion.



A few questions (not necessarily connected to the selection logic), though:
1.) Is it possible to know beforehand (without parsing the complete file) whether a PGS track includes forced subtitles? I presume it's not.
2.) Why isn't there the same possibility for idx/sub tracks?
3.) Is it possible to know beforehand (without parsing the complete file) whether an idx/sub track includes forced subtitles?

[SamuriHL]

Nev, I'm confused, those deinterlacing changes only apply to the CUVID code or have you added software deinterlacing support? And people please pay attention to whatever answer we get and don't ask this 100 times. ;) Thanks!

[glorp]

It's not that I think that it is important. It's just that the probability of an "und" track being in a language known to the user is higher, than for a track in a language the user hasn't defined in the selector. It's the strawberry on top of the cake, not really vital.


But there is also the possiblility that someone specifically marks tracks as "und" in cases where he does not want those tracks to enter into the selection process at all. I'll give you an example where that's useful:

- You only understand English and need English subs for all other languages.
- A film has a French main audio track and an English commentary track.

There currently are no options to prioritze language tracks by flags (i.e., forced) so if you mux this film with both language tracks and tag them correctly for language you will always get the commentary track with subs turned off. Not at all what you want.

The only way I've been able to keep the commentray track in a mux is to label it "und" knowing that then it would not be included in the selection criteria. I can't see any other way to handle this except to choose a completely unrealistic language tag for the commentary track.

So I don't want to see "und" become a priority or I'd like to see a way to handle that scenario by flags or language logic.

Note: Haali didn't/doesn't handle this any better. The "und" trick was the only way I could find to do it there too.

[sneaker_ger]

Well, nevcairiel does not want to apply any advanced logic to the audio selection at all, so my (unfinished) proposal wouldn't change your situation. You could still mark your commentary tracks as "und" and be happy.

Remember, my proposed prioritization when using the *-symbol:
1.) languages in the audio field
2.) "und"
3.) the rest

Nothing would change for you, the proposal of prioritizing "und" over "the rest" is only for the *-character.

Though your situation really shows one of the downsides of using Matroska files instead of DVDs/Blu-Rays with menus. Makes me even stronger think about searching the track names for things like "forced" or "commentary", instead of just looking at the Matroska flags.

[glorp]

Remember, my proposed prioritization when using the *-symbol:
1.) languages in the audio field
2.) "und"
3.) the rest



Yes, you're right. I agree. I misunderstood what you were proposing but your clarification is clear :)


Though your situation really shows one of the downsides of using Matroska files instead of DVDs/Blu-Rays with menus. Makes me even stronger think about searching the track names for things like "forced" or "commentary", instead of just looking at the Matroska flags.

Yes, agreed again, although in my case simply honoring the forced flag for audio selection too (or a way to include it in the advanced string) would have been enough for mkv's. Sadly that wasn't part of the new option so I still need the "tricks".

[sneaker_ger]

Yes, agreed again, although in my case simply honoring the forced flag for audio selection too (or a way to include it in the advanced string) would have been enough for mkv's. Sadly that wasn't part of the new option so I still need the "tricks".

Yes, nev's decision to make the audio selection (1) not "forced" and "default" aware and (2) be separated from the subtitle selection imposes certain limitations.

I'm currently writing down a few basic assumptions for a new proposal, but with that decision, certain limitations will remain, sadly.

[rica]

Thanks for the new build but no fix for LavSplitter > raw pcm mkv > ReClock issue yet. Hoping for 040 build.
Best.

[pankov]

Nev, I'm confused, those deinterlacing changes only apply to the CUVID code or have you added software deinterlacing support? And people please pay attention to whatever answer we get and don't ask this 100 times. ;) Thanks!
SamuriHL,
I think these changes are meant to control the deinterlacer in madVR ... or any other renderer that reads the correct flags and obeys them
...
and in the future probably for the software deinterlacer in LAV itself
;)

[SamuriHL]

SamuriHL,
I think these changes are meant to control the deinterlacer in madVR ... or any other renderer that reads the correct flags and obeys them
...
and in the future probably for the software deinterlacer in LAV itself
;)

That's fine (and good as I wanted to test madVR deinterlacing vs the CUVID deinterlacing like you've been doing) but I just wanted to get clarification. Cause if I'm confused, others likely will be, too. But that's a good thing if that's what this change is for. I'll have to build myself a copy and then update to the latest nVidia beta driver since I BELIEVE they fixed that annoying black screen nonsense in 7MC in the latest driver.

[nevcairiel]

1.) Is it possible to know beforehand (without parsing the complete file) whether a PGS track includes forced subtitles? I presume it's not.

Its not. There is no global header, its on a per-frame basis.


2.) Why isn't there the same possibility for idx/sub tracks?

I suppose they do have a similar mechanic (a forced flags in the frame headers), but i don't have that much media with DVD-style subtitles.


3.) Is it possible to know beforehand (without parsing the complete file) whether an idx/sub track includes forced subtitles?
Same goes as for PGS.

Nev, I'm confused, those deinterlacing changes only apply to the CUVID code or have you added software deinterlacing support? And people please pay attention to whatever answer we get and don't ask this 100 times. ;) Thanks!

They apply to all possible kinds of deinterlacing, be it CUVID, or in the Renderer (EVR/madVR), or through a software post-processor, or for any future software deinterlacers in LAV Video itself.

Yes, nev's decision to make the audio selection (1) not "forced" and "default" aware and (2) be separated from the subtitle selection imposes certain limitations.

It is at least "default" aware, however the language is a stronger match then the default flag. I understand the problem with commentary tracks that have a "better" language match then the main feature, however i'm unsure how to fix that properly.

Regarding the advanced selection - i'm not sure why you really need the audio selection in there. It seems far more logical that people have a preferred audio language, and then want subtitles that go with that audio language, instead of the other way around. What kinds of rules are you aiming to achieve with that? "If english subs are present, use japanese audio" seems like a silly rule to me - its far more likely people want "If japanese audio is used, use english subs".

[PeQuE]

Here is a test build with some new deinterlacing changes:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.39-15-g905db7d.zip

Bulletpoint changes:
- Changed "Field Order" and "Force Deinterlacing" to global options
- Added "Aggressive Deinterlacing" option

That means that all those options not only apply to the CUVID deinterlacer now, but also to deinterlacing when its done in the renderer.

Aggressive deinterlacing is similar to CoreAVCs aggressive checkbox - it forces deinterlacing if the stream indicates interlaced coding is used, even if not all frames are coded as such. Alot of broadcasts seem to be broken that way.

Force Deinterlacing foces deinterlacing on all streams, even if the whole stream is marked progressive. Not sure that option is still needed, i have no sample which would require it.

@PeQuE:
Aggressive Deinterlacing should probably make your stuff play properly.
Thanks so much for attending my needs nev.

I'll test this ASAP and report back.

[psymed]

Is 22.2 surround sound planned for future versions?

[nevcairiel]

Is 22.2 surround sound planned for future versions?

Once there actually are main stream codecs and files that use it, sure. Until then, no. (So not for some years)

[SamuelMaki]

Is 22.2 surround sound planned for future versions?

Use jRiver MC internal codecs...

[HeadlessCow]

Regarding the advanced selection - i'm not sure why you really need the audio selection in there. It seems far more logical that people have a preferred audio language, and then want subtitles that go with that audio language, instead of the other way around. What kinds of rules are you aiming to achieve with that? "If english subs are present, use japanese audio" seems like a silly rule to me - its far more likely people want "If japanese audio is used, use english subs".

I think the real problem here is that there's no concept of an "original" audio track. In an ideal world, one audio track (or multiple for something like "The Perils of Gwendoline in the Land of the Yik Yak" where the cast was half-English and half-French speaking) would be marked as "original" and playback should (optionally) prefer that rather than the language of the viewer as long as there are subtitles that match a language that the viewer understands. In the event of multiple "original" audio tracks, the selected "original" audio track should follow the preference of the viewer and when there are no tracks marked as "original", the preference should just follow the list that the user configures.

Examples:
Configured language: eng, fre

Harry Potter:
Audio: eng:"original", fre, esl
Subs: eng, fre, esl
Selected on playback:
Audio: eng
Sub: None

Excel Saga:
Audio: jpn:"original", eng
Subs: eng
Selected on playback:
Audio: jpn
Sub: eng

Gwendoline:
Audio: eng:"original", fre:"original"
Subtitles: eng, fre
Selected on playback:
Audio: eng
Sub: None

Cheesy (Dubbed) Kung Fu Movie
Audio: zho:"original", eng
Subs: zho
Selected on Playback
Audio: eng
Subs: None

If that all makes sense... does it make sense to treat the default flag for audio tracks as the "original" flag in my suggestion? :)

[sneaker_ger]

Regarding the advanced selection - i'm not sure why you really need the audio selection in there. It seems far more logical that people have a preferred audio language, and then want subtitles that go with that audio language, instead of the other way around. What kinds of rules are you aiming to achieve with that? "If english subs are present, use japanese audio" seems like a silly rule to me - its far more likely people want "If japanese audio is used, use english subs".

Ok, I wrote a wall of text yesterday, which I was hesitating to post at all, because today I didn't feel as confident about it as I felt yesterday. But it includes examples that show exactly what I mean. It is not simply a question of "more logical", but the current logic makes it straight out impossible to do certain things. I will make two separate posts for them.

[sneaker_ger]

I have thought about an improved advanced selection logic, based on the following assumptions:

1. The audio track selection is not part of the advanced logic. This is by nev's choice and will not be changed.
2. The languages in the audio selection field are languages the user prefers over other languages. If possible, these should take priority over any quasi random selection.
3. "Undefined" tracks are more likely to be known by the user, than defined tracks that are not listed by the user as known languages.
4. Users might want to prioritize certain audio languages they do not understand. They need subtitles in a language they DO understand for these, though.
5. The selection fields should be both human readable and fillable, without having to resort to some kind of batch system.
6. The advanced logic should not make it necessary for the user to write down each and every possible combiniation. The more languages you understand, the more complicated it currently gets, because you basically have to write at least one pair for each possible combination. Wildcards are a solution to make the options faster to write and easier to read and grasp.
7. The new logic should for the most part be downwards compatible to the old logic. Exceptions are quasi random selections, which may be superceded by selections based on known languages.
8. The new logic shall be easy to implement, by substituting wildcards through combinations already known by the old logic.
9. People might want to select the subtitle language not based on the general order of known languages, but according to the currently selected audio language.


The biggest problem I see with my new proposal, is the limitation imposed by assumption #1. This means that assumption #4 can not be satisfied in its entirety.

The first change I deduce from assumption #4 and #1 is: a) the audio selection field has to be split into two separate groups:
- [A] = the current audio selection field. LAV splitter will select the audio track according to this list, its meaning will stay the same and it is thus backwards compatible. If [A] is empty, then [A]=[B]
- [B] = a new group with languages the user actually understands. If [B] is empty, then [B]=[A]

b) Now we already have our two new wildcards: [A] and [B]. Naturally, LAV shall obey the order given by the user when selecting a track with these wildcards.

c) We will also introduce a new operator: "!" (exclamation point)
This operator allows the user to easily select only languages that are not part of a group (or isn't a specific language).

d) To meet assumption #9 we need to introduce yet another wildcard: "[?]" (interrogation mark, in brackets as to stay consisted with the other wildcards)
This wildcard means "same as selected audio language". This allows to select multiple audio/subtitle pairs, without having to write a new pair for every language. This wildcard can only be used for the subtitle, not for the audio.

e) to account for assumptions 2#, #3 and #4, we need to redefine the "*"-wildcard. From now on it shall use the following order for the subtitle track:
- select [B], incl. [?]
- select "und", incl. [?]
- select [A], incl. [?]
- select the rest (e.g. by track ID, ascending)

This order will increase the probability of a "lucky hit", i.e. selecting a language that is understood by the user. "[?]" shall NOT be prioritized within any group, for this could disobey the language order setup by the user. If he wants to prioritize "[?]", he has to create a separate pair.


I will now give an example on how to use this new logic.
We have an American that only speaks English, but likes to watch Korean and Japanese movies in their original audio. Of course he needs subtitles for that.
In the "audio field" (group [A]):
kor,jpn,eng
In the "languages understood" (group [B]):
eng
In the "subtitle selection" field:
[B]:[?]|f;[B]:[B]|f;[B]:off;![B]:*

Let's not forget, because of assumption #1, the audio tracks is selected before anything else:
1.) tries to select a Korean audio track
2.) tries to select a Japanese audio track
3.) tries to select an English audio track

Only after that comes the subtitle selection, which consists of four parts:
1.) if the user understands the selected audio track, it will try to select the forced subtitle track of the same language. If not found, try:
2.) if the user understands the selected audio track, it will select a subtitle track with a language understood by the user. If not found, try:
3.) if the user understands the selected audio track, subtitles will be deactivated. If not found, try:
4.) if the user does not understand the selected audio track, it will select any subtitle track, in the order [B], "und", [A], rest

Some parts of the last pair can be exchanged with others and will probabably still lead to the desired result. Most users won't even need [A].

(The example shows why #1 and #4 can not be combined, btw. If a file has only a Korean and an English audio track, but no subtitles, the Korean audio track gets selected, even though the American can not understand a single word, because of the missing subtitles. A more advanced logic would be able to switch to the English audio track in this specific case, although the user usually prefers the Korean track.)

Now this is a very simple example, which shouldn't be too complicated, even with the current logic. But if a user understands two, three or even more languages, the old logic gets very complicated. For the new logic, it doesn't really matter, you just enter the additional languages in field [A] and/or [B].

Now let's check if the new logic meets assumption #8, "easy to implement":
The above example would translate to:
eng:eng|f;eng:eng|f;eng:off;...
(The fourth part of the selection would be too long to write out, but it doesn't pose any problems.)
Basically all pairs with the new symbols can be subsituted by a number of pairs of the old logic.

I'd say the remaining assumptions are also respected:
#7: check, it does not redifine any existing setting, users can simply update. The only exception is the *-wildcard, but it wasn't predictable to begin with.
#5: check, the new wildcards and the new operator are easily writeable and readable. In fact, the wildcards can significatly reduce the amount of characters, improving the user experience.


Now for the summary:
- Introduction of new wildcards [A] (audio track selection group), [B] (languages actually understood group), [?] (currently selected audio language)
- Introduction of a new operator "!" (all languages BUT the group/language behind the operator)
- Redefinition of the "*"-wildcard, new order: [B], "und", [A], rest

My new proposal would make things shorter and easier, but sadly, it cannot solve #4 under the current conditions.

[sneaker_ger]

(Sorry, the style got lost a bit while copying over from my text editor. Got to go, right now, I hope it's readable.)

Proposal for a combined subtitle and audio track selection. (I know it's insane, just a bit of brainstorming.)

A combined subtitle and audio track selection could solve #4 shown in the example in my other proposal. The downside: assumptions #1 and #7 are false.
Summary:
- Introduction of new wildcards [A] (Group A), (Group B), [?] (currently selected audio/subtitle language)
- Introduction of a new operator "!" (all languages BUT the group/language behind the operator)
- Redefinition of the "*"-wildcard,
>new order for subtitles: [B], "und", [A], rest, off
>new order for audio : [A], [B], "und", rest, off
- Syntax extensions: combination of elements:
>*:[A][B]
>*:![A]![B] = *:!([A][B])
(more parts of the set theory supposable, of course)
-several track types
>[A]|f|d|
-explicit definition of "|!n" = not forced, "|!d" = not default, "|!fd" = neither forced nor default etc.:
[A]|!f = not forced of Group A

The syntax extensions could of course also be used for the first proposal, but I wanted to keep that one sane. [b]Regard them as "optional"!


Example of the old proposal solved:
Group [A]:
kor,jpn (NOT eng)
Group [B]:
eng
In the combined selection field:
[A]:[B];[B]:[?]|f;[B]:[B]|f;[B]:off;*:*

reads:
1.) Try to select an audio track of Group A and a subtitle track of Group B. If not found, try:
2.) Try to select an audio track of Group B and a forced subtitle track of the same language. If not found, try:
3.) Try to select an audio track of Group B and a forced subtitle track of Group B. If not found, try:
4.) Try to select an audio track of Group B and disable all subtitles. If not found, try:
5.) Select an audio track in the order [A], [B], "und", rest, off, and a subtitle track in the order [B], "und", [A], rest, off.

We see that the problem of the old mode has been solved. With Korean and English audio and no subtitles, the English audio gets selected. With Korean and English audio, and an English subtitle track, the Korean audio and the English subtitles get selected.

[sneaker_ger]

Ok, wall of text posted. I hope you can see the problem of the current mode, even if none of my proposals seem convincing to you.

[nevcairiel]

In the "subtitle selection" field:
[B]:[?]|f;[B]:[B]|f;[B]:off;![B]:*


I just read this and just had to correct it.

"[B]:off;![B]:*" is equal to "[B]:off;*:*" because [B] will never reach the last selection anyway.

Also, instead of having a separate "group" for [B], maybe some kind of special symbol on the language tags could be used, to keep it in one box. I would propose "!" for "important", but it would be confusing with "!" meaning "not" in the advanced box. Maybe "~kor,~jpn,eng" ? :d

I'll read it in detail later.

[sneaker_ger]

I just read this and just had to correct it.

"[B]: off;![B]:*" is equal to "[B]: off;*:*" because [B] will never reach the last selection anyway.

In this specific case. Yes, I know. :D

But there's a reason we have "for()" in programming languages, even though we could as well combine "while()", "if()" and "i++". It is easier to write, read and grasp.

I wouldn't regard my proposals as the solution. It's more like a base for further discussions.

[Midzuki]

Is 22.2 surround sound planned for future versions?

Windows itself cannot go above 17.1 audio channels. Therefore, ...

[Sebastiii]

And the last, on this sample (comes from LIFE BBC BD) i can't get sound (only in bitstream) in this sample (it was DTS-HD HRA detected by arcsoft dll and mediainfo) :
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10536084/lav/Sample/00106_NO_Bitstream.m2ts

My AVR should decode all HD format (Harman Kardon 355) but seems not on this one.
I will try with TMT to see what happen (in bitstream ofc).
But if someone can repot if it's work for him :)
Thanks.

Just Feedback, only working with PDVD.
No luck with LAV Audio/FFDShow/TMT5.

[Gleb Egorych]

Here is a test build with some new deinterlacing changes:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.39-15-g905db7d.zip

Bulletpoint changes:
- Changed "Field Order" and "Force Deinterlacing" to global options
- Added "Aggressive Deinterlacing" option

Hi, nevcairiel!

Thanks for this great addition, it solved almost all problems I had with DVB streams and LAV filters!

The only problem still persists, although it changed with the patch. I use DVBViewer for watching DVB and tried it with LAV Video in CUVID mode and LAV CUVID. With LAV Video 0.39- switching to interlaced H.264 channels sometimes takes more time that usual and after picture appearing I see that 50i material is played as 25p. Now with 0.39.15 instead of 25p I simply have black screen (not always but sometimes, quite often). The same appears sometimes after rewinding timeshift buffer. This bug never appears with LAV CUVID 0.13.

[SamuelMaki]

Windows itself cannot go above 17.1 audio channels. Therefore, ...

WASAPI skips that windows mixer;) As I said, jRiver atleast go up to 32 channels...

[nevcairiel]

The only problem still persists, although it changed with the patch. I use DVBViewer for watching DVB and tried it with LAV Video in CUVID mode and LAV CUVID. With LAV Video 0.39- switching to interlaced H.264 channels sometimes takes more time that usual and after picture appearing I see that 50i material is played as 25p. Now with 0.39.15 instead of 25p I simply have black screen (not always but sometimes, quite often). The same appears sometimes after rewinding timeshift buffer. This bug never appears with LAV CUVID 0.13.

I only have access to a very limited range of DVB channels, all of which are either progressive H264, or interlaced MPEG-2 - i do not have anything else to check this on.

Anyway, i found a small bug that could cause it to error out and try to fallback to software decoding, which i just fixed, so maybe that helps.

[mbordas]

I've been kvetching about an audio problem on the avs mpc-hc forum for the past couple of days, and it turns out it's caused by enabling cuvid on lav video. I don't get it but I tested it with rica's samples:

96_24 flac mkv:

http://www.mediafire.com/?u0dh194e0q74tyt

96_24 pcm mkv:

http://www.mediafire.com/?het2xcoug60hvni

audio stutters with either wasapi exclusive or directsound (if set to 96 khz sample rate or above).

I have a gt 440, and I'm using the analog outs, not bitstreaming.

[PeQuE]

Thanks so much for attending my needs nev.

I'll test this ASAP and report back.

Report: Agressive Deinterlacing it's working like a charm! :)

Thanks nev. Finally I can get rid of any other decoder in my system for broadcasts.

You're doing really well for HTPC fans. Keep on.

[pankov]

I only have access to a very limited range of DVB channels, all of which are either progressive H264, or interlaced MPEG-2 - i do not have anything else to check this on.

Anyway, i found a small bug that could cause it to error out and try to fallback to software decoding, which i just fixed, so maybe that helps.

nev,
if you have DVBViewer and if you want to test other formats I can send you details how to connect to my DVB Rec Service so you can get access to 1080i50 H264 and PAL MPEG-2 channels.

[erejnion]

this is mainly a problem of not dropping the additional 1 / 2 channel information I guess. dunno if ffdshow does that when setting the mixer to 3/0/2 + LFE. thats why it would be nice to have at least one solution which keeps all the audio information.

yeah, I think by default MPC (don't know about other players, since I don't often play files with more than two channels, and haven't specifically tested for this) would just drop the additional channels, if you are playing for example something with 5.1 audio on your headphones. Which proves to be a problem in some (rare) releases, for example Tweeny Witches' one in bakabt... there MOST of the relevant audio information is not in FL/FR, so it gets dropped. Of course, you can set it to output the other channels from FL/FR too, but it would help if we have more customizable matrix too. Guess tho it makes more sense to bother MPC's devs for this.

[Mangix]

is there any way to bitstream mpeg1 audio? I ask because my HDTV's EDID mentions this...CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96 kHz
AC-3 2-channel, 640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz
MPEG1 2-channel, 448k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz I know I can bitstream ac3 and lpcm is just regular audio so what about mpeg1?

[nevcairiel]

While in theory its possible to bitstream MPEG1, there is just zero benefit to it, because its limited to stereo anyway, so even a SPDIF link can carry that information.

[betaking]

40 min ago

Hendrik Leppkes

Replace all byte-packed format settings with separate registry keys
good job! thanks nev!

[mylle]

I have an ATI 5770 in my HTPC but I am thinking about buying a Nvidia card instead to take advantage of the CUVID feature. I can read in the thread that a 430gt is a good choice?

I have an old 9400gt laying around but i suppose that is totally useless in regards to LAV filters and CUVID?

regards
Jacob

[mark0077]

nev, I'm back again with a question about mpeg2 deinterlacing quality on gtx295. Because this card apparantly only supports upto cuda level 1.3, could this be the reason for the very bad mpeg2 deinterlacing quality in lav video?

I have tried madVR's deinterlacing with these same mpeg2 clips and its perfect. Lav Video is the only hardware de-interlacer atm thats giving me this low level of quality... Let me know if I can provide any more details, or if anyone else can please test gtx 295 deinterlacing quality from their end, would be great to get a second opinion.

I don't want to use madVR's de-interlacing for various reasons relating to manipulation / frame interpolation I want to do after de-interlacing is finished, before going to the renderer.

[nevcairiel]

I have no influence whatsoever on the deinterlacing process, all i can tell it is to deinterlace, and which type of algorithm to use (the options for that are exposed through the UI). If it doesn't work for you, too bad, but nothing i can do.

PS:
If its already deinterlaced properly, the result will already be 50 or 60 fps, whats there to interpolate? :d

[mark0077]

I understand. Well my avisynth script only interpolates if the incoming frame is for example <= 25fps. If I let madVR do the de-interlacing, first my avisynth script will have interpolated to 50fps, and then madVR will try to de-interlace so I'll be getting stuttery dropped frames. Its basically the order of events and the fact that manual intervention is needed. I'll have to use yadif for the time being, not a big issue anyways thanks.

[tiny]

While in theory its possible to bitstream MPEG1, there is just zero benefit to it, because its limited to stereo anyway, so even a SPDIF link can carry that information.

The capability of bitstreaming of MPEG1 audio comes from the backwards compatibility of MPEG Multichannel with MPEG1 layer 2. MPEG Multichannel was developed by Philips as one of the audio codecs of the DVD standard. It was mandatory only for European DVDs, meaning the player/receiver had to be able to decode it. The support for the standard in European models of AVRs disappeared some years ago, after the standard was dropped from the DVD specification in 1997. Currently the usefulness of bitstreaming MPEG1 is very limited, IMHO.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG_Multichannel

[pankov]

I have an ATI 5770 in my HTPC but I am thinking about buying a Nvidia card instead to take advantage of the CUVID feature. I can read in the thread that a 430gt is a good choice?

I have an old 9400gt laying around but i suppose that is totally useless in regards to LAV filters and CUVID?

regards
Jacob

mylle,
what's the reason to want CUVID?
Now that madVR has deinterlacing there are very little benefits of going for it. From my recent tests CUVID decoding and deinterlacing uses as much power (electric) as CPU decoding and deinterlacing in madVR. And this is if you are able to limit your video card to P8 (Video) power state. If it needs P0 state (Full 3D Power Mode) the total wattage goes above the one for software decoding and sadly this P0 state is needed with some high bitrate 1080p60 clips.

If you decide to go with NVidia have in mind that the 430 is not good enough. You'll have to go with 440 (with DDR5 memory) or even better with 450 but I'd wait a few more months to see what the new models from both NVidia and AMD will offer (they should have a much improved performance per watt ratio)

[mindbomb]

I have no influence whatsoever on the deinterlacing process, all i can tell it is to deinterlace, and which type of algorithm to use (the options for that are exposed through the UI). If it doesn't work for you, too bad, but nothing i can do.

Is it the same as dgdecnv?

Cause I feel like I get better deinterlacing with lav cuvid, but how could there be different results if they are both cuvid and supposed to be adaptive?

[nevcairiel]

The High Quality Processing mode is most likely not activated by dgdecnv, probably because it just doesn't work on XP.

[Xaurus]

If you decide to go with NVidia have in mind that the 430 is not good enough. You'll have to go with 440 (with DDR5 memory) or even better with 450 but I'd wait a few more months to see what the new models from both NVidia and AMD will offer (they should have a much improved performance per watt ratio)
I have a 450 with DDR3 memory (100% passive from Asus) for my HTPC, and I believe nevcairiel was right that it has headroom for everything.

I even downclocked it and still no problems. Very satisfied with this buy tbh.

[jmonier]

mylle,
what's the reason to want CUVID?
Now that madVR has deinterlacing there are very little benefits of going for it. From my recent tests CUVID decoding and deinterlacing uses as much power (electric) as CPU decoding and deinterlacing in madVR. And this is if you are able to limit your video card to P8 (Video) power state. If it needs P0 state (Full 3D Power Mode) the total wattage goes above the one for software decoding and sadly this P0 state is needed with some high bitrate 1080p60 clips.

If you decide to go with NVidia have in mind that the 430 is not good enough. You'll have to go with 440 (with DDR5 memory) or even better with 450 but I'd wait a few more months to see what the new models from both NVidia and AMD will offer (they should have a much improved performance per watt ratio)

One additional point is that NVidia has the "silent stream" bug on HDMI audio whereas AMD/ATI does not. Because of that, I switched back to AMD/ATI when madVR added de-interlacing.

[nevcairiel]

You people really need to get better receivers, on mine the HDMI handshake takes maybe half a second, nothing you would ever notice. :p
All the other bugs the AMD drivers have would annoy me far more. Whats the most recent version people suggest to use these days? 10.11? No working driver for a year? :)

[jmonier]

You people really need to get better receivers, on mine the HDMI handshake takes maybe half a second, nothing you would ever notice. :p
All the other bugs the AMD drivers have would annoy me far more. Whats the most recent version people suggest to use these days? 10.11? No working driver for a year? :)

If you're blaming the "silent stream" bug on HDMI hand shake in the receiver, why does it only occur with NVidia? I used to see it with AMD/ATI on the same receiver but it was fixed a long time ago. If they can fix it, why can't NVidia fix it? (And you will see many people complain about it, so it's not just me.)

For me half a second would certainly be noticeable although I would say that it's actually a second or more. I can barely tolerate it when starting up but not when when I'm seeking or pausing.

As far as the bugs with AMD, some people see them and some don't. For me (and many other people), the current drivers work fine so it's not clear what the real source of the problems is. (And the newer versions of the drivers don't seem to have any advantages for HTPC use so it's not a major problem for those people who DO see problems.)

In any case, it's important for people to see INFORMED opinions on both sides so they can make an informed decision. It doesn't help to make wild (and largely unsupported) statements about AMD not having a working driver in over a year. If that were true, NOBODY would be using AMD.

I would point out that I was relatively happy with AMD but I wanted better de-interlacing with madVR so I tried LAV CUVID with NVidia. I was very happy with with the CUVID de-interlacing but the "silent stream" bug was an instant and major annoyance. When madVR added de-interlacing I got a lot closer to my perfect system. YMMV.

EDIT: I should point out one thing that I'd temporarily lost track of. The "silent stream" problem with NVidia is worse when using WASAPI. When I tried it without WASAPI, it was much less on seeking and short pauses. It was still an annoyance on startup and with long pauses. My statements above refer to the case where WASAPI is used. Note that AMD has NO problems with it either way.

For me WASAPI is necessary so that I can get proper speaker assignments with both 5.1 and 7.1. Without it, the surround channels in 5.1 come out of the rear speakers and nothing comes out of the side speakers. This is apparently the way Microsoft has decided to do it in their mixer even though it is contrary to the way it works with with BluRay players. The only way I've found to fix it is to use WASAPI, so, for me, it is essential. I believe that WASAPI has other advantages but those are certainly arguable.

[QBhd]

You people really need to get better receivers, on mine the HDMI handshake takes maybe half a second, nothing you would ever notice. :p
All the other bugs the AMD drivers have would annoy me far more. Whats the most recent version people suggest to use these days? 10.11? No working driver for a year? :)

11.8 Works wonders for me... My video playback has never been better.

QB

[mindbomb]

You people really need to get better receivers, on mine the HDMI handshake takes maybe half a second, nothing you would ever notice. :p

you use an onkyo, right?

[Mangix]

The capability of bitstreaming of MPEG1 audio comes from the backwards compatibility of MPEG Multichannel with MPEG1 layer 2. MPEG Multichannel was developed by Philips as one of the audio codecs of the DVD standard. It was mandatory only for European DVDs, meaning the player/receiver had to be able to decode it. The support for the standard in European models of AVRs disappeared some years ago, after the standard was dropped from the DVD specification in 1997. Currently the usefulness of bitstreaming MPEG1 is very limited, IMHO.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG_Multichannel
thanks a lot for the info. clears up many things.

[Sebastiii]

For me half a second would certainly be noticeable although I would say that it's actually a second or more. I can barely tolerate it when starting up but not when when I'm seeking or pausing.

I have found a solution for that because it's annoying me lol
If we talk about the same (when changing audio/subtitle stream too)

I change the setting from "Auto" to "Video full screen" in adjust desktop color setting from Nvidia control Pannel.

Weird, i just want to look this option on my DEV pc and i didn't have it (but i didn't have also this little blackscreen).

Connecting on my HTPC with remote access (TSE) i can't get Nvidia setting lol. To Verify the exact place in control pannel.

But for sure, changing this option (for my GTX 460) and this goes away :)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Hey : i found the post where i talk about possible fix (for me it does)
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1498683&postcount=2564
I have to grab a new screenshot lol

[nevcairiel]

If you're blaming the "silent stream" bug on HDMI hand shake in the receiver, why does it only occur with NVidia? I used to see it with AMD/ATI on the same receiver but it was fixed a long time ago. If they can fix it, why can't NVidia fix it? (And you will see many people complain about it, so it's not just me.)

Sure its something NVIDIA would have to fix, however my whole point was that the handshake doesn't have to take 1-3 seconds, it can be done in 0.5, which makes the bug much less noticeable.

Slow HDMI handshakes on receivers is a rather annoying problem, and even if there is no silent stream bug, it will still annoy you when you play a 5.1 file and then switch to a stereo file - it has to handshake again (even worse, if that change occurs in the middle of playback - eg. in live tv thats quite common)

PS:
For pausing or seeking, the audio renderer could actually mitigate that by simply not closing the WASAPI device and send silence until playback resumes.

[madshi]

For pausing or seeking, the audio renderer could actually mitigate that by simply not closing the WASAPI device..
There it is, we need a new audio renderer... :p

(and no, just to avoid misunderstandings, I'm not going to write an audio renderer)

[pankov]

(and no, just to avoid misunderstandings, I'm not going to write an audio renderer)

Too late,
even if you deny it, you've already been assigned this task
:p
...
nev, you are the second member of the team, in case you didn't know it till now

;)

[nevcairiel]

I'll put it on the end of my list, which i'll probably manage to finish in 2020 or something.

[pankov]

:)
now, lets get serious.
Nev,
I'm using an Integra DTR-40.3 and I have huge delay in audio when both starting and resuming (after seek or pause) movies. By huge I mean something above 3 seconds.
How did you manage to trick your receiver in synching quicker?
If I remember correctly you are using ReClock too, righ? Are you using WASAPI? btw I just tried Sebastiii's advice and went back to directsound and now the delay after seek/pause is very low ... probably <0.5s.
If my setup is 5.1 do I actually lose much if I ditch WASAPI. (I think I can live with the fact that my receiver will not know if the source is actually stereo or 5.1)

[Thunderbolt8]

using the advanced subtitle mode, when the audio is german I only want subtitles to be displayed if they are flagged as forced. but with my subtitle line, they are also activated when not being flagged as forced:

ger:*|f *:eng *:*|d *:*|f

so whats wrong here?

[jmonier]

Sure its something NVIDIA would have to fix, however my whole point was that the handshake doesn't have to take 1-3 seconds, it can be done in 0.5, which makes the bug much less noticeable.

Slow HDMI handshakes on receivers is a rather annoying problem, and even if there is no silent stream bug, it will still annoy you when you play a 5.1 file and then switch to a stereo file - it has to handshake again (even worse, if that change occurs in the middle of playback - eg. in live tv thats quite common)

PS:
For pausing or seeking, the audio renderer could actually mitigate that by simply not closing the WASAPI device and send silence until playback resumes.

Are you using WASAPI Exclusive in Reclock? Unless you are, then my results are the same as yours (it's just that I want to use WASAPI which gives the worse delays) and my receiver is no different than yours (or any other) for HDMI handshaking.

Here in the US, I've never seen a change from 5.1 to stereo in the middle of playback (or, at least, it hasn't been noticeable). I agree that, if it occurred, and there was a delay, it would be a real nuisance. But, is there any evidence that it would occur with AMD? (They may have fixed it as well.)

I agree that it could be fixed in the audio renderer, but that would have to be Reclock for me and I don't think that is ever going to happen.

[jmonier]

:)
now, lets get serious.
Nev,
I'm using an Integra DTR-40.3 and I have huge delay in audio when both starting and resuming (after seek or pause) movies. By huge I mean something above 3 seconds.
How did you manage to trick your receiver in synching quicker?
If I remember correctly you are using ReClock too, righ? Are you using WASAPI? btw I just tried Sebastiii's advice and went back to directsound and now the delay after seek/pause is very low ... probably <0.5s.
If my setup is 5.1 do I actually lose much if I ditch WASAPI. (I think I can live with the fact that my receiver will not know if the source is actually stereo or 5.1)

Your results are exactly the same as mine with a Denon 3808. If you only want 5.1, I can't really argue convincingly for WASAPI exclusive. I've been using DirectSound for a week or two with the NVidia card and I haven't seen any serious problem. There is still a very noticeable delay on start of playback and if I've paused for a long period (more than a few seconds). I would think that's acceptable although I still like it better with AMD.

I still feel better bypassing the Windows mixer and having my receiver know the difference between stereo and other formats but I can't make a convincing argument for it.

[nevcairiel]

Are you using WASAPI Exclusive in Reclock? Unless you are, then my results are the same as yours (it's just that I want to use WASAPI which gives the worse delays) and my receiver is no different than yours (or any other) for HDMI handshaking

Yes i'm using ReClock and WASAPI exclusive.
I tried out another receiver a while back, and it had significantly longer handshake times.

[glorp]

using the advanced subtitle mode, when the audio is german I only want subtitles to be displayed if they are flagged as forced. but with my subtitle line, they are also activated when not being flagged as forced:

ger:*|f *:eng *:*|d *:*|f

so whats wrong here?

For one, the second pair in your string (*:eng) would turn on any eng subs present even when the language is German as long as there aren't any forced subs with German audio (any first pair match).

You need:
ger:*|f;ger: off; ...

Or possibly you mean:
ger:ger|f;ger: off; ...

[rica]

Guys, if we are talking about bitstreaming (undecoded) but not bitexact passthrough streaming (decoded to pcm, or unpacked pcm itself), why do you need to use Wasapi Exclusive?

Windows' mixer can not interfare compressed formats, so you can directly pass compressed audio using any renderer over SPDIF(for SD lossy formats) or HDMI(for HD lossless or lossy formats and SD lossy formats.) to your receiver to be decoded there.

Even you use ReClock as your default audio renderer on MPC-HC ( if you select "accept bitstream formats".)
In this case you may select "bitstream: DirectSound or WaveOut."
ReClock will use DirectSound or WaveOut. You may leave ReClock in his default config except "accept bitstream formats". nothing will change. It will bitstream over DirectSound or WaveOut.
Checkout inline config: you can not interfare anything since everything is grey while bitstreaming. (If you are bitexact streaming, you can and have to adjust inline config and have to use wasapi exclusive.)

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/395/reclockinlineatbitstream.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/reclockinlineatbitstream.png/)

see:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=21200733&postcount=400

Even you use Direct Sound directly or over ReClock you will bitstream as is; i mean ReClock has no effect on Silence Stream Issue at all while bitstreaming.

But i must say this funny silent bug is directly related with nVidia's audioHD driver, nothing else.


_ _ _ _

[pankov]

rica,
I think most of the users that prefer ReClock do it for the ability to have better audio/video synchronization than bitstreaming.
In this case if we use DirectSound we loose the ability to distinguish between sources with different channels count
:(
I guess I might dig out my old AMD 5750 and give it a try now that madVR has deinterlacing.
I do like NVIDIA but this handshake issue is definitely bothering me ... not much but just enough to make me think about switching back to AMD/ATI.

I do have one more issue that's a bit off topic here but I believe with so much knowledge in you guys/gals someone might help.
very often (may be 7 out of 10 times) when I switch off (or even on) my projector or AV receiver my NVIDIA card doesn't detect it and leaves me with only one monitor. If this could be acceptable when turning off the equipment it's definitely a problem when I turn on everything and I see black (blue to be exact) screen on my PJ because the receiver is not getting any signal from the PC. Then I have to go in NV control panel and do "Rigorous Display Detection" and this brings back the secondary display. Often just turning off and back on the receiver a few times works too.
Does anybody have an idea what could be wrong? Could it be a cable issue (I have absolutely no problems while watching) or it's simply some kind of timing/negotiation issue between my video card and my receiver (Integra DTR-40.3)?

[jmonier]

Guys, if we are talking about bitstreaming (undecoded) but not bitexact passthrough streaming (decoded to pcm), why do you need to use Wasapi Exclusive?

We're NOT talking about bitstreaming. I've realized that bitstreaming would solve the speaker assignment problem but, like pankov and for the same reasons, I want to use Reclock to adjust playback.

Have you actually tried bitstream with a NVidia card? My guess is that the "silent stream" bug would be the same with bitstream as with WASAPI exclusive. After all, WASAPI exclusive, is just bitstreaming LPCM. I could be wrong, however.

[jmonier]

I guess I might dig out my old AMD 5750 and give it a try now that madVR has deinterlacing.
I do like NVIDIA but this handshake issue is definitely bothering me ... not much but just enough to make me think about switching back to AMD/ATI.

Make sure that your 5750 has 1gb of memory. madVR de-interlace seems to require 800mb+.

I got stung with that on a 4750 which only had 512mb.

[rica]

pankov, i can adjust refresh rate very precisely with custom resolution option of nVidia and i never need ReClock for very very precisely clock timing. And i guess we are talking about audio rendering ability of any audio renderer?

As for your unrelated issue, i may advise you to use two cables:
DVI to HDMI > your TV's HDMI input. (for video)
HDMI to HDMI > your AVR's HDMI input. (for audio)
(Two monitors.)

[pankov]

jmonier,
10x for the advice. I did notice that madVR uses a lot memory and hopefully my card was the 1GB version

rica,
I'm familiar with the custom resolution tricks but sadly even with all of them I can't get perfect playback. The closest I've got was 2-3 dropped frames per 2.5 hour movie and I do want to have 24 fps not 23.976 which is not possible without Reclock or many repeated frames.
Sadly I can't use your suggestion about the different cables since the PC has a LCD monitor connected too and it takes up the DVI output.
I do have an idea though - since I own an Z68 motherboard which has a HDMI output I plan to use it for the audio and connect the HDMI output of the video card directly to the projector.
Anyone tried this already?

[nevcairiel]

I would not recommend using a separate output for audio, it will come with quite some timing problems.

[rica]

@jmonier, Wasapi Exclusive is only meaningful for decoded streams or unpacked PCM. Btw i'm using currently an nVidio 550 Ti and silent stream bug is always existent with any renderer.

@pankov, you can still test with your existent HW: Why don't you unplug your LCD monitor and use this empty DVI out of your Ati to connect to your PJ?

[pankov]

nev,
wasn't this (having different video and audio devices) normal for the past few years (before both ATI and NVidia got audio devices onboard the video cards)?
what could go wrong? after all aren't they different devices just on one board? or you are saying that in HDMI they are somehow synchronized and the receiver benefits from it before sending the video to the projector?

rica,
I don't see your point. My problem is not that the AVR/PC is not seeing the projector but that the PC is not seeing the AVR and thus I have both no audio and video - the PC switches to single monitor mode and I loose the NVidia HDMI Audio device too.

[nevcairiel]

nev,
wasn't this (having different video and audio devices) normal for the past few years (before both ATI and NVidia got audio devices onboard the video cards)?
what could go wrong? after all aren't they different devices just on one board? or you are saying that in HDMI they are somehow synchronized and the receiver benefits from it before sending the video to the projector?


If you use anything but HDMI, there shouldn't be any problems, but with two separate HDMI links i would be careful.

Try it, if it works - great, but be careful. ;)
I fail to see the advantage right now, though.

[rica]

rica,
I don't see your point. My problem is not that the AVR/PC is not seeing the projector but that the PC is not seeing the AVR and thus I have both no audio and video - the PC switches to single monitor mode and I loose the NVidia HDMI Audio device too.

You really don't but it's my last attempt:

I say unplug your monitor and plug this emptied DVI to your PJ and connect with another HDMI to HDMI cable to your AVR over your Ati's HDMI out and give it a go again and check whether your PC recognizes your AVR this time or not?

[Qaq]

ATM, I use DVI > HDMI/TV and HDMI > HDMI/AVR setup. Had to play with Extended mode settings and now jitter in EVR CP looks very low (same as with single monitor setup). Its ATI 5450 and WinXP setup, BTW. Playback with madVR is also good (for 5450 at least). I use ReClock/KS and have no idea what "silent bug" means ))

[jmonier]

@jmonier, Wasapi Exclusive is only meaningful for decoded streams or unpacked PCM. Btw i'm using currently an nVidio 550 Ti and silent stream bug is always existent with any renderer.

Are you saying that the silent stream bug is there with bitstream as well as Wasapi Exclusive?

I've never tried bitstream but since it would (almost by definition) bypass the mixer, I was thinking that it would be very similar functionally to Wasapi Exclusive and thus might well have the same silent stream bug.

[rica]

Are you saying that the silent stream bug is there with bitstream as well as Wasapi Exclusive?


Yes, this is what i'm saying.

[nevcairiel]

Are you saying that the silent stream bug is there with bitstream as well as Wasapi Exclusive?


Actually, in bitstreaming it typically even takes longer, because most receivers take longer to figure out what signal they are getting then with pure PCM.
YMMV, of course.

[looney]

If i might ask why is LAV filters x86 only single threaded (0.37-0.39) and (x86-64 version is fully multithreaded. Win shows 24-25% of usage linearly, and cannot reach beyond it while there's frame drops --- in fact stills for few seconds in fact @2.5GHz AII-x4, while x86-64 version works flawlessly from 6%->36% on same cpu. Source is 1080p.

[nevcairiel]

I get full 100% CPU usage when benchmarking the x86 version on a quad-core, which means it uses multi-threading just fine.

Also, you seem to be repeating yourself.
Try to set the threads option to some specific value, something like 4 or 6, maybe Auto isn't working right.

[fastplayer]

When opening the LAV Splitter properties via MPC-HC's external filters, then switching to the "Input Formats" tab, the "Apply" button gets activated, even though I didn't change anything (just switched from one tab to another).
This is happening with the latest trunk build. Could this be a "side-effect" of f99914eac1d3 (http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/source/detail?r=f99914eac1d389ca801038d5f2a6a6a4d1c8b994)?

Edit: Happens with "rundll32 LAVSplitter.ax,OpenConfiguration", too.

[nevcairiel]

This is happening with the latest trunk build. Could this be a "side-effect" of f99914eac1d3 (http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/source/detail?r=f99914eac1d389ca801038d5f2a6a6a4d1c8b994)?

That change only affected the audio decoder, not the splitter. :)
I will look into it, but its only cosmetic. =P

[fastplayer]

That change only affected the audio decoder, not the splitter. :)
I definitely need glasses...
I will look into it, but its only cosmetic. =P
Another "odd" thing is that when you open LAV Splitter properties via rundll32 and exit the property window without making any changes (except switching to the "Input Formats" and back to "LAV Splitter" tab), it'll write its values to the registry. This doesn't happen with LAV Audio/Video.

[nevcairiel]

Another "odd" thing is that when you open LAV Splitter properties via rundll32 and exit the property window without making any changes (except switching to the "Input Formats" tab), it'll write its values to the registry. This doesn't happen with LAV Audio/Video.

If it activates the apply button, that means it'll write the settings on OK or Apply (should not do it with Cancel)

[fastplayer]

If it activates the apply button, that means it'll write the settings on OK or Apply (should not do it with Cancel)
I changed my original message slightly: If you switch back to the "LAV Splitter" tab and hit Cancel then, it will write the values to the registry.

Edit: You're too fast! Revision: dd943c716124 (http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/source/detail?r=dd943c71612423709c0bff88153992be3e08137f)

:thanks:

[ney2x]

For those who encounters "TDR" and alot of dropped frames when using madvr v0.78

Link:
NVidia_VGA_Driver_v285.76_Win7_64_WHQL (ftp://61.14.154.72/pub/ASUS/misc/vga/NVidia_VGA_Driver_v28576_Win7_64.zip)

[madshi]

Hmmm... What is "TDR"? Those 285.76 drivers don't seem to be on NVidia's website yet. Are they better than the current WHQL drivers?

[nevcairiel]

TDR is "Timeout Detection & Recovery", which is a Windows function which trys to recover a hanging driver.

There are also new beta drivers, 285.79, which are available on geforce.com

[nevcairiel]

I've been trying to get DVD playback to work with LAV Video, but it appears the DVD Navigator will refuse to function properly when there is no subtitle renderer for the dvd subtitles. ffdshow & MPC-HCs MPEG-2 decoder all include dvd subtitle functionality.
My first idea was to just take the DVD subtitles, and just pass them through the filter, exposing them on the other side using the VobSub type (which is supported by DirectVobSub/MPC-HC internal - in contrast to the DVD Subpicture type).

Any other ideas i could pursue?

PS:
Another thing, using ffdshow raw on dvd playback breaks menu navigation. Even tried ffdshow + ffdshow raw, same issue - it just freezes when you try to interact with the menu.

[madshi]

What happens if you just pretend to handle the subtitles and silently drop them? Of course that's not a good solution, but maybe for a first test version? In the long run, simply forwarding them for other subtitle renderers (like VobSub) sound good to me, if that really works as expected.

[jmone]

as a MC user, just pass them on to J Rivers Sub Renderer.

[Midzuki]

Any other ideas i could pursue?

Yes. Make sure the FFmpeg team has already fixed the double-width subpics issue in Half-D1 VOBs :p

[pirlouy]

I do have an idea though - since I own an Z68 motherboard which has a HDMI output I plan to use it for the audio and connect the HDMI output of the video card directly to the projector.
Anyone tried this already?
Because of my pre-amp limitations, I do this:
- 1 HDMI from my ATI to my pre-amp
- 1 DVI from my ATI to my TV

I use dual screen in drivers, TV is the principal display, and the preamp is the second. I don't have any timing issues.

[nevcairiel]

Yes. Make sure the FFmpeg team has already fixed the double-width subpics issue in Half-D1 VOBs :p

I'm not talking about actually decoding the subtitles, all i planned was take the subtitle data, and output it untouched to the subtitle renderer (if any) - and if no-one wants it, just discard it.

[Superb]

Converting the subs "on the fly" to VobSub and passing them on to the next filter (e.g. the ISR in MPC-HC) sounds like a great plan. I hope you'll be able to implement such a feature.

[wo0zy]

Just Feedback, only working with PDVD.
No luck with LAV Audio/FFDShow/TMT5.

Hey Sebastiii,

I don't want to interrupt the discussion about DVD playback too much because it's a feature I've been hoping Nev would get around to :D but I just wanted to say that I seem to be able to bitstream DTS-HD from your sample using LAV audio. My Onkyo shows DTS-HD which is different to the lights that show for MA or plain old DTS.

I tested with both Sandy Bridge and a spare NVIDIA GT-430. Both worked.

Don't suppose a noob like me will be taken too seriously but just wanted to let you now.

Cheers,

Wo0zy

PS Hope I didn't break your chain of thought Nev. Awesome work!

[SeeMoreDigital]

... I just wanted to say that I seem to be able to bitstream DTS-HD from your sample using LAV audio. My Onkyo shows DTS-HD which is different to the lights that show for MA or plain old DTS.
I've been able to do this to, with DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HR, Dolby Plus and Dolby TrueHD audio bit-streams.

That said, I am having difficulty configuring MPC to recognise and use LAVsplitter and LAV Audio Decoder all the time when playing for .M2TS contained files!

I've turned off all of MPC's "Source Filters" and "Transform Filters" but when I try playing "DTS-HD MA + AVC.M2TS files MPC keeps loading Microsofts DTV-DVD Audio Decoder :mad:

And when I play TrueHD + AVC.M2TS files MPC keeps loading MPC's AC3 Audio Decoder (low merit) :mad:


Cheers

[rica]

Because of my pre-amp limitations, I do this:
- 1 HDMI from my ATI to my pre-amp
- 1 DVI from my ATI to my TV

I use dual screen in drivers, TV is the principal display, and the preamp is the second. I don't have any timing issues.

OK, this is the right way to go.

[rica]

I've been able to do this to, with DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HR, Dolby Plus and Dolby TrueHD audio bit-streams.

That said, I am having difficulty configuring MPC to recognise and use LAVsplitter and LAV Audio Decoder all the time when playing for .M2TS contained files!

I've turned off all of MPC's "Source Filters" and "Transform Filters" but when I try playing "DTS-HD MA + AVC.M2TS files MPC keeps loading Microsofts DTV-DVD Audio Decoder :mad:

And when I play TrueHD + AVC.M2TS files MPC keeps loading MPC's AC3 Audio Decoder (low merit) :mad:

Cheers

Are you sure you have selected LavAudio as "preferred" in external filters.
After disabling all internal filters, just select lavsplitter, lavaudio and lavvideo under external filters and make them "preferred" filters.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've done the following: -

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8388/lavfilters.png

The odd thing is, even though LAV video decoder is not enabled as a "preferred" filter it's always enabled (but not LAV audio decoder): -

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/373/mpcr.png

[rica]

You can not imagine the codec hell.
Pls just try to select lav audio as preferred if it is still not working select MS DTV-DVD Audio decoder and set it to "block".

[Midzuki]

I'm not talking about actually decoding the subtitles, all i planned was take the subtitle data, and output it untouched to the subtitle renderer (if any) - and if no-one wants it, just discard it.

My bad :o , that's what I get for drinking less than 750ml of coffee per day :stupid:

Converting the subs "on the fly" to VobSub and passing them on to the next filter (e.g. the ISR in MPC-HC) sounds like a great plan.

Yes, LAV Video + VSFilter is the way to go http://forum.doom9.org/images/icons/icon14.gif http://forum.doom9.org/images/icons/icon14.gif http://forum.doom9.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

[SeeMoreDigital]

You can not imagine the codec hell.
Pls just try to select lav audio as preferred if it is still not working select MS DTV-DVD Audio decoder and set it to "block".
Okay... I've done both those things and although Microsofts DTV-DVD Audio decoder no longer loads, it now displays this: -

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5412/mpc2.png

I've "blocked" every AVI filter too. But god knows why anything "AVI" is even listed.... Grrrr!

[rica]

Please do me a favor and give it a go with GraphStudio or GraphEdit this time:

File Source (async) > Lav Splitter > Lav Video > EVR
> Lav Audio > Def. D.Sound

And pls. tell me the result.