LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[madshi]

From the description in that bug report it sounds like they're using the AMD custom 3D API which was made for Windows 7 (but might still work on Windows 8+). madVR is using the official Windows 8+ Direct3D APIs instead. I can't say for sure whether they have the same problem or not. I've only tested if 3D generally works, I've not had a chance to watch a full movie and look out for delays or other issues.

[NikosD]

I remembered the other player I thought it could play MVC MKV files but I'm not sure it does.

I can't test it.

It's called Bino3d
http://bino3d.org

[nevcairiel]

I remembered the other player I thought it could play MVC MKV files but I'm not sure it does.

I can't test it.

It's called Bino3d
http://bino3d.org

That one doesn't seem to support MKV MVC files, only 3D files encoded as "normal" H.264.

[fluffy01]

I was just wondering... Do you have any plans of implementing DXVA2 decoding of MVC?
I once looked at the specs, and it seems like a pretty simple and straightforward interface for it.
That way, we don't have to depend on the Intel API.

[nevcairiel]

There are no plans. Its not quite as simple as you portrait it, I'm afraid.

[fluffy01]

Sorry to hear that. And you are right. I only did a quick readthrough, never actually tried to do it myself.
I am not a C/C++ programmer. I mainly program Delphi and C#.
It looked pretty simple, though, but as you said, there is probably more to it than that.

[fluffy01]

Oh, almost forgot... I reencoded some of my 3D-blurays into a HSBS video, a long time ago, for easy viewing. I tagged the video stream in the mkv-files as being SBS, I was wondering if LAV Splitter/Video is reading and sending this information on to madVR? Because I can't seem to get it to realize, that it is in fact 3D.

[madshi]

Is there an SBS flag in the container? If so, maybe LAV could export it somehow (e.g. IPropertyBag) in some future version, would be helpful for me.

[Nullack]

Hello Hendrik, with todays nightly I have observed I can no longer seek forward or backward by clicking the mouse in the player's seek bar somwhere else other than current playback and have it work OK in webm / VP9 using this sample for example:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111230-Google-VP9-4K-HD-Sample

Im not sure when this was last working/if it worked off the top of my head. I tried seeking in other container and video codec formats, all is seeking OK including even similar footage such as VP8 / webm

Thanks

Looking a bit deeper at this there seems to be some ffmpeg level discussion about seeking in VP9. Handy that Hendrik is also a ffmpeg contributor :cool:

[Duffy Moon]

Not sure if anyone can help with this, or even if it's an LAV issue (but it doesn't happen with my TiVo) but when I watch some video files via MPC, my amplifier shuts itself off on occasion.
It's not set at a high volume, so I don't think it's a signal overload (although it does seem to happen more often when there's a sudden loud noise on the soundtrack). I have tried checking clipping protection and using DRC, but they made no difference. It only happens on about 1 in 100 files, but when it happens, it's very annoying!

[Nullack]

Hi Hendrik. Say a user has got the tickbox for prefer audio stream with the highest quality enabled in the lav splitter config. Its rare but it can happen that a bluray disc has both a TrueHD and a DTS HD MA track. I've noticed LAV splitter will default to TrueHD. Since TrueHD and DTS HD MA are both lossless, it doesnt make a difference which one is chosen if they can decode that chosen one in their audio system. And I realise you needed to pick one of them in this case. However, it is generally acknowledged that DTS is a better option than AC3. So when a user might have older audio gear that only does the old standards like DTS or AC3, the better outcome in this circumstance would be to default to DTS HD MA since that will fallback to DTS and not TrueHD which would fall back to AC3. Thanks

[nevcairiel]

Looking a bit deeper at this there seems to be some ffmpeg level discussion about seeking in VP9. Handy that Hendrik is also a ffmpeg contributor :cool:

Seeking in that file works fine, its just slow because the file doesn't contain a proper seek index. Nothing that can be done about that, other than remuxing it of course.

[dansrfe]

Bug: AC3 track is prioritized higher and selected instead of ATMOS/TrueHD track of same language.

[nevcairiel]

Bug: AC3 track is prioritized higher and selected instead of ATMOS/TrueHD track of same language.

It is most definitely not, unless the AC3 track has more channels.
Check your player, some players like to override stream selections.

[dude2012]

Is there a consensus as to which is better with Lav 0.67.0? I've read posts including from Nev saying DXVA2 is better than CUVID in Windows 10 but not sure which to pick? BTW I have an Nvidia GTX770.

[fluffy01]

Is there an SBS flag in the container? If so, maybe LAV could export it somehow (e.g. IPropertyBag) in some future version, would be helpful for me.

It is not just a SBS flag. It is actually a Stereoscopy flag, which allows a multitude of different 3D types.

The MKVToolNix GUI offers a dropdown with 15 different types of 3D (Including Mono-2D), so you can look there and see what is supported.

Setting this flag actually causes MKVToolNix to default the extension of the file to .mk3d instead of .mkv, so perhaps add this extension to LAV, so we can double-click this type instead of having to either change the extension back to .mkv or manually drag and drop the file in the player.

[nevcairiel]

I can probably export this metadata in some form, but I haven't seen many files use it. But no harm anyway!
LAV supports the .mk3d extension, file associations are managed by the player however, and not the splitter.

[fluffy01]

I usually add this flag to the 3D movies I recode, and if LAV and madVR starts to support it, then I bet that loads others will start to use it as well :)

[dansrfe]

It is most definitely not, unless the AC3 track has more channels.
Check your player, some players like to override stream selections.

I'm on the latest nightly for MPC-HC, the "Prefer audio stream with highest quality" option is enabled in LAV Splitter.

MediaInfo:

Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 640kbps [A: AC-3 [eng] (ac3, 48000 Hz, 5.1, 640 kb/s) [default]]
Audio: TrueHD 48000Hz 8ch 9216kbps [A: ATMOS [eng] (truehd, 48000 Hz, 7.1, s24)]

I'm not sure what default audio track means. Did this override priority selection? None of the other files with multiple audio tracks show this.

[nevcairiel]

The "default" flag overrides everything, don't set it if you don't want that behavior.

[dansrfe]

The "default" flag overrides everything, don't set it if you don't want that behavior.

Makes sense, although perhaps an option to override the default flag for audio/subs would be useful. I've yet to find a case where the default flag was used for a purpose other than to ensure decoder compatibility by the author of the file.

[DragonQ]

Makes sense, although perhaps an option to override the default flag for audio/subs would be useful. I've yet to find a case where the default flag was used for a purpose other than to ensure decoder compatibility by the author of the file.

I always set primary audio streams to "default" over secondary streams (e.g. director commentaries).

[Blight]

Probably not out in the wild yet:
Zero-Day FFmpeg Vulnerability Lets Anyone Steal Files from Remote Machines (http://news.softpedia.com/news/zero-day-ffmpeg-vulnerability-lets-anyone-steal-files-from-remote-machines-498880.shtml)

[nevcairiel]

Probably not out in the wild yet:
Zero-Day FFmpeg Vulnerability Lets Anyone Steal Files from Remote Machines (http://news.softpedia.com/news/zero-day-ffmpeg-vulnerability-lets-anyone-steal-files-from-remote-machines-498880.shtml)

IMHO that issue is slightly overrated, but LAV is not affected in any case, unless you use it in an unsafe manner (ie. by directly hooking it up to a web server, potentially exposing its output, which is always a bad idea).

And just to be safe, the "concat" protocol used in those demonstrations is not available in LAV either (and never has been).

[3421]

Installation, disabling rtp. LAV splitter, rtp enabled. The rtp links do not open. Installation, rtp enabled. Lav splitter, rtp disabled. rtp links open. Checked on the player which not plays rtp without lav filter.

Checkbox disable/enable all the components. I disabled everything and I choose what I need and enable.

A difficult captcha from questions I don't know all the answers. And I don't know English.

[ileile]

I can probably export this metadata in some form, but I haven't seen many files use it. But no harm anyway!
LAV supports the .mk3d extension, file associations are managed by the player however, and not the splitter.

do you have any plan to support 3d bluray or ssif files in the near future? it is a important feature. with 3d bluray support, we can throw PowerDVD out of the window.

btw, thank you for your work :thanks:

[3421]

Enable or disable rtp in the menu LAV splitter is ignored. RTP is always as selected during installation LAV. 62

[Warner306]

Is it possible to modify the audio delay in LAV Audio to apply to specific refresh rates (e.g. 24 Hz)?

I have problems with audio sync at 24 Hz when playing 23.976 fps content. Other refresh rates are fine. This problem is reasonably common.

- Plex Media Player has a built-in delay for 23.976 content (see bullet #9 (https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/208175907-How-are-Plex-Media-Player-and-Plex-Home-Theater-different-)).

- Kodi offers the ability to set delays for specific refresh rates (described here (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2033893#pid2033893)).

- There is an entire thread dedicated to this issue in the Kodi forums (found here (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=80247)).

Adding a refresh rate-based delay in LAV Audio would open up the ability to apply this type of correction universally to any player that uses LAV Filters.

[Asmodian]

I don't think LAV even knows the current display's refresh rate, does it? That sounds more like a player feature to me, I can see it being useful but I think it is important to keep LAV's feature list as light as possible. :)

If I understand this correctly, these features are compensating for different amounts of input lag in the display due to it using different modes with different refresh rates, not desync between the audio and video as it leaves the computer?

[nevcairiel]

Asmodian is right, LAV Audio of course doesn't know the current refresh rate, it has nothing to do with video afterall, and I'm not exactly eager to add stuff to try to detect the current refresh rate, especially considering things like automatic display mode changers and whatnot.

[ang3l]

Asmodian is right, LAV Audio of course doesn't know the current refresh rate, it has nothing to do with video afterall, and I'm not exactly eager to add stuff to try to detect the current refresh rate, especially considering things like automatic display mode changers and whatnot.

since madVR and more generally any players who uses this feature determines the refresh rate starting by the frame rate, lav could do the same for the audio delay and give two possibilities to set the value, the current method or an advanced text string as madvr does

something like

1080p23@-300, 1080p50@-150 ...

just an idea

[nevcairiel]

LAV Audio also doesn't know the frame rate of the video, it deals with the audio, not the video. And such guesses would be extremely inaccurate anyway, and I don't do broken features. Just get whichever player you are using to do it.

[cengizhan]

hi nevcairiel,
could you make the installer skip downloading decoder if it alreadys exists?

[an3k]

Even if LAV has to be responsible for A/V delay it would be the Splitter but actually the Player has to take care of it and to be honest I never experienced any delay regardless of the displays refresh rate. Maybe because I use digital connection between the playback device and the display.

Do you use an external Amp/Surround system?

[Warner306]

LAV Audio also doesn't know the frame rate of the video, it deals with the audio, not the video. And such guesses would be extremely inaccurate anyway, and I don't do broken features. Just get whichever player you are using to do it.

Understood. I thought adding this feature further up the chain would make it easier to implement for the end user.

[madshi]

At some point I could implement an option to do video delay (instead of audio delay) in madVR, depending on refresh rate. But probably not any time soon.

[Warner306]

I don't think LAV even knows the current display's refresh rate, does it? That sounds more like a player feature to me, I can see it being useful but I think it is important to keep LAV's feature list as light as possible. :)

If I understand this correctly, these features are compensating for different amounts of input lag in the display due to it using different modes with different refresh rates, not desync between the audio and video as it leaves the computer?

Given the cause of this still remains unknown to the developers I've talked to, the player is simply delaying the audio by a preset amount before it outputs to the audio output device.

The Kodi thread has people blaming a number of features and claiming solutions found in the Kodi audio settings. But, in my experience, I think it comes down to the display lagging when it uses its 24 Hz mode. In either case, an easy fix is to add a delay to 23.976 content.

[Warner306]

Even if LAV has to be responsible for A/V delay it would be the Splitter but actually the Player has to take care of it and to be honest I never experienced any delay regardless of the displays refresh rate. Maybe because I use digital connection between the playback device and the display.

Do you use an external Amp/Surround system?

Sure, it could also be the AV receiver struggling to lock-on to 24 Hz content. But I've used a very new and a reasonably old (2-3 old) Onkyo and they both display this flaw.

I think it could be a flaw of some LED TVs. They all struggle with motion in some way. I am using a very common, supposedly high-end Samsung LED.

[huhn]

this issue is called input lag. TV can have easily an input lag of over 100ms there are even TV with an input lag of over 200 ms.

this changes with refresh rates and settings like crappy frame interpolation and TV mode like game(low delay)/cinema(very high delay).

[nevcairiel]

Many TVs have input lag defined in number of frames (due to their processing), which makes it noticeable longer on 24Hz since frames are just so much longer (41.6ms instead of 16.6ms at 60Hz)

[zerowalker]

When it comes to bad frame timing with video and MPC-HC frame time correction helps, can LAV filter also solve this or is it a completely different matter?
Codec is H264.

[Warner306]

Many TVs have input lag defined in number of frames (due to their processing), which makes it noticeable longer on 24Hz since frames are just so much longer (41.6ms instead of 16.6ms at 60Hz)

I've read dozens of posts attempting to diagnose this issue and this is the most logical I've heard. It would mirror my suspicion of unoptimized processing being at fault. It is one of the ongoing factors that have weaned me off the belief that LED TVs are a great investment.

[FDisk80]

I can't answer that. But I don't understand what you said about playing MVC Blu-Rays with AnyDVD HD, that shouldn't work yet. Currently only 3D Blu-Rays remuxed into MKV by MakeMKV are supported. Playing 3D Blu-Rays as is in m2ts format shouldn't work yet.

Shouldn't work yet? :o
So there is hope?

[Nullack]

To clarify, that puzzle existed for a number of days. In the end I finally got an answer from Samsung about how to turn off 3d enhancement that's auto done for 3d content when in 3d mode. To add to the puzzle too, Nvidia drivers also fiddle with it as well. It was a big mission to stop the auto 3d from 2d content when in 3d mode.

[LigH]

@ zerowalker:

Usually, decoders decode streams of a media source in sync, according to their multiplexing. It will probably be mainly the player being responsible for either requesting asynchronous decoding, or delaying a stream relative to others.

[XTrojan]

Is there any statistics on how much CPU power is needed for the upcoming HEVC blurays? Will for example 3770k be able to decode in realtime without hardware acceleration?

[huhn]

maybe 100 mbit with 24hz.

[Piyoko]

I've read dozens of posts attempting to diagnose this issue and this is the most logical I've heard. It would mirror my suspicion of unoptimized processing being at fault. It is one of the ongoing factors that have weaned me off the belief that LED TVs are a great investment.
I always assumed this was the cause. The extra processing of the "movie" mode on the TV coupled with the longer frame time at low refresh rates.

I have one of the newer 4K Samsungs and at 60Hz PC/game mode the input lag is extremely low (for a TV) but at 24Hz movie mode I have to apply an almost 200ms audio delay. Thankfully everything I watch is 24fps so I can just leave the value as it is.

[Manni]

Is there any statistics on how much CPU power is needed for the upcoming HEVC blurays? Will for example 3770k be able to decode in realtime without hardware acceleration?

I have a 3770K at 4Ghz with 8Gb RAM and it's not able to decode HEVC 10bits UHD without H/W acceleration. It does it, but it stutters as soon as there is too much info, for example in pans etc.

My HD7870 isn't the bottleneck, I tried with a Fury and it was the same. It's the CPU.

I'm waiting for Arctic Islands now.

[hu1kamania]

I recently "upgraded" to Windows 10. Unsatisfied with MadVR's deinterlacing, and yadif, I wanted to see if I could get CUVID + hardware deinterlacing to work. Years ago this was the best method, but more recently on Windows 8.1 I noticed quality was almost identical to MadVR's, so I just stuck with DVXA + copy back.

Flash forward to CUVID, and right away I was getting very unstable results. After some research, this is a known issue with Windows 10 + CUVID. I know it's not recommended by nevcairiel and the problem was identified by the developers of SVP here:

Windows 10 - video player hangs and/or crashes (http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2671&p=2)

As you can see, using an driver equal to or before 350.12 fixes the issue. The problem I had was, this driver doesn't support my GTX 980Ti. So I modified and installed the 350.12 driver using the following guide:

Nvidia INF driver modding (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=377158)

This allowed stable use of CUVID with Windows 10, and hardware deinterlacing was significantly improved.

I'd like to see CUVID support improved in newer drivers. Since something was broken after 350.12, it would seem the ball is in Nvidia's court to fix the issue. However, if something can be done on your side to bring compatibility in line with recent drivers, that would be nice!

That was all I had to say. I hope somebody finds this helpful, insightful or interesting!