LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[mzso]

Hello!

Why is audio much lower volume with LAV then everything else on the system? The same file is also much louder if I play it with MPV. (players both at 100% of course)

[LigH]

Channels, mixing.

Can't tell you more without knowing all the details about your audio track and the setup of the LAV audio decoder.

[Megalith]

Sadly, the best solution is usually to just turn up the volume. The geniuses at Dolby/DTS know how to do 9,000-channel surround sound, but they never bothered to make a smarter way of folding down surround to stereo.

[mzso]

Channels, mixing.

Can't tell you more without knowing all the details about your audio track and the setup of the LAV audio decoder.

Can I at least increase the output volume or something?

[mzso]

Sadly, the best solution is usually to just turn up the volume. The geniuses at Dolby/DTS know how to do 9,000-channel surround sound, but they never bothered to make a smarter way of folding down surround to stereo.

I'm not sure if it's just Dolby and DTS. The DVB mpeg-2 streams seem rather low as well.

[huhn]

if you play 5.1 om stereo it is well known that the mixer in lavaudio does not have the same volume level as the windows mixer. this is intentional.

with pcm audio out there are multiply parts where the audio volume is changed so it's not just one to point at.

[mzso]

if you play 5.1 om stereo it is well known that the mixer in lavaudio does not have the same volume level as the windows mixer. this is intentional.

with pcm audio out there are multiply parts where the audio volume is changed so it's not just one to point at.

But with audio set to 100% in media players I can do little other than change the system volume or speaker/TV volume all the time. Which sucks.
And the media player (with LAV) seems to be the lowest volume by a decent margin out of every app.

[huhn]

if you don't mix it should be the same. at that point lavfilter doesn't do anything anymore.

you can also bit stream where lavfilter can't touch audio yet again.
all other stuff is the windows mixer the windows general audio level and some player allow for more then 100 % volume.

there is also the audio switcher.

mpv and mpc-hc have 100% the same volume here as it should be. but mpv allows for more then 100%.

[Siso]

There are two sound normalisers in mpc-be, the first one doesn't work as it should, the second one is from ffmpeg and it is ok. As for mpc-hc the internal normaliser is not so good tho.

[huhn]

i don't see what this has todo with lavfilter?

the only place where lavfilter is changing "volume" is in mixing and DRC. the rest is bit perfect and the problem of the player and OS.

[flossy_cake]

Post a clip of a low volume video so we can look at dB meter to see what the actual level is

[Sunspark]

I was able to hear a difference with the LAV DRC option on an old bluray rip but it was small and I decided it is best used under one of two conditions:

1) You are normalizing/loudness equalizing the volume in Windows (e.g. Realtek Audio Console) or HC- do NOT use DRC option.
2) You are NOT normalizing/loudness equalizing the volume in Windows or HC- go ahead and use the DRC option if downmixing to stereo from 5.1.

[Siso]

IMHO the best solution would be a good normaliser/compressor in lav audio or in mpc-hc.

[mzso]

Post a clip of a low volume video so we can look at dB meter to see what the actual level is

Everything seems to be affected.
But on further research. Apparently the mediaplayer might be at fault. Fired up mpc-hc and it had the same volume as foobar. But not potplayer.

(not sure about the DVB tuner app)

[mzso]

It's weird. If I change the output to the TV (via HDMI) it is much lower volume. If I use the PC output it's only somewhat more silent. I also have the output of Potplayer set to 7.1 (No such thing possible with Foobar) so Windows Sonic would activate. So maybe that raises the volume a bit?

Also, if i set mixing volume to 200 from 100 in potplayer it's louder on PC output, but Foobar is still much louder when I switch to the TV. What a mess.

[clsid]

MPC-HC's volume normalization adjust the volume in a noticable way, you can spot when the volume is adjusted, not what I'm looking for.Well, suggestions on how to improve the algorithm are welcome. Create an issue on GitHub.

[Sunspark]

I won't be the one to create the issue, but were one be created I could suggest one thing for consideration here.. perhaps just copy the code from VLC's compressor as it has numeric input boxes for: RMS/peak, attack time, release time, threshold level, ratio, knee radius, makeup gain.

Then an audio expert could figure out "good" values if not using the already chosen values.

[Siso]

I won't be the one to create the issue, but were one be created I could suggest one thing for consideration here.. perhaps just copy the code from VLC's compressor as it has numeric input boxes for: RMS/peak, attack time, release time, threshold level, ratio, knee radius, makeup gain.

Then an audio expert could figure out "good" values if not using the already chosen values.

Or add 3-4 presets, will be much easier than to tweak the values endlessly.

[tebasuna51]

IMHO the best solution would be a good normaliser/compressor in lav audio or in mpc-hc.

Remember rule 12:

Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!

For me the best solution is not use normaliser or compressor.

Each user can have different preferences depend on their audio players don't exist the best solution.

Talking about compressor, AFAIK LAV Filters only can apply DRC included in Dolby audio, and can't recommend use it or create a new filter.
It must be a player (software or hardware) option.

About Normalize don't exist good or bad, if you want Normalize you have the risk of low volume mix, if not you can have clips and now you can protect it or not with the risk of change clips to sudden volume changes. That is all.

In my opinion the Mixing Tab in LAV Filters is all you need to downmix multichannel audio.

[huhn]

maybe that works better: https://www.ac3filter.net/download-ac3filter/

different audio level between application still cries windows audio mixer.

[Siso]

maybe that works better: https://www.ac3filter.net/download-ac3filter/

different audio level between application still cries windows audio mixer.

It doesn't decode dolby digital plus audio.

[huhn]

it doesn't have to decode anything.
just use it as a processor.

[Siso]

it doesn't have to decode anything.
just use it as a processor.

Is it possible? And how to use it as a processor?

[huhn]

as long as lpcm and pcm are enabled it will always be loaded when the audio is decoded.
even with default settings is should still load with audio codex it doesn't know because these are decoded to pcm/lpcm be something else.

[flossy_cake]

I was able to hear a difference with the LAV DRC option on an old bluray rip but it was small

If I'm not mistaken LAV's DRC will only work if the audio track is AC3 and contains DRC metadata, so most of the time it won't do anything at all, and even when it does, it's entirely dependent on how much compression the authors decided to encode.

Personally I find peak normalisation to be sufficient , and it doesn't change the dynamic range or artistic intent. Although I was watching an episode of Seinfeld this evening which was sourced from Google's streaming service and the speech has volume issues even with peak normalisation so I ended up going with the speech slow DRC preset in avisynth and that worked ok. The speech fast one gives pumping but that is an outlier preset with 300ms decay which is too fast. 1000ms seems to work ok .

[Balling]

If I'm not mistaken LAV's DRC will only work if the audio track is AC3 and contains DRC metadata, so most of the time it won't do anything at all, and even when it does, it's entirely dependent on how much compression the authors decided to encode.



First of all Microsoft MFF decoder decodes DRC differently. Second of all, EAC3 and AC3 are supported, yes, TrueHD is not. Encoder on ffmpeg for eac3 does not support DRC, but all official sources will use DRC even on Atmos EAC3, so this is highly misleading. Basically only applies to ffmpeg encoder.

[tebasuna51]

For me the ffmpeg encoder is ok when don't add DRC metadata to AC3/EAC3 encodes.

The Dolby system DialogNormalization/DynamicRangeCompression was intended to equalize the audio volume but the consequence is just the inverse:
Like you can see in the image (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1997910#post1997910) with the profile "film standard" (the most common applied) you limit the peak audio volume to -20 dB.
If you change to listen a audio CD (see the 'loudnness war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war)') or a TV advertisement or other movie without AC3/EAC3 audio you need modify the volume.
In DVD times everybody say than DTS track are better than AC3 track, when are both present. For better quality? not always, but for high volume.

If a user want audio compression there are filters (see VLC) to apply it to all audio sources, not only AC3/EAC3, and you equalize all audio volume.
In my opinion the compressor must be a player job but if clsid want include it in the LAV filters no problem.

Maybe Dolby have experience about compression and the Dolby presets can be emulated for all audio sources, in the flossy_cake post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1997910#post1997910) there are a way to do it with the SoxFilter. But of course there are other compressors in free soft ffmpeg.

[SeeMoreDigital]

For me the ffmpeg encoder is ok when don't add DRC metadata to AC3/EAC3 encodes.

The Dolby system DialogNormalization/DynamicRangeCompression was intended to equalize the audio volume but the consequence is just the inverse:

Agreed... It's an evil thing that Dolby did :devil:

[flossy_cake]

Like you can see in the image (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1997910#post1997910) with the profile "film standard" (the most common applied) you limit the peak audio volume to -20 dB.
If you change to listen a audio CD (see the 'loudnness war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war)') or a TV advertisement or other movie without AC3/EAC3 audio you need modify the volume.

Yep and thats why I use Normalize() to recover back the -20db. But I think it recovers slightly less because the compressor attack time is nonzero , so the volume can go temporarily above -20 until such time the average audio level over the attack period goes above -20 , then it will be quickly reduced to -20. So the loudest sample in the whole audio track after compression could still be something like -15 and in that case Normalize would only do +15 gain instead of +20.

[Sunspark]

For interlaced material that is 29.976 which is originally from a DVD, for the quicksync hw deinterlacing option, which is better?

The checkbox says 50/60 (Video) is recommended, and it makes the source filter 60, but the other one for 25/30 (Film) makes the source filter 30 which is what it is with the original interlaced video.

Both seem to work, the interlacing is removed. How do I know which one is most optimal in terms of quality?

[huhn]

use 60 always. 30 and 25 as target is only interesting for encoding or detelecine not deinterlacing.

[Balling]

For me the ffmpeg encoder is ok when don't add DRC metadata to AC3/EAC3 encodes.


It is not just metadata. DRC is the key feature of eac3, that allows to increase the compression/quality

[tebasuna51]

It is not just metadata. DRC is the key feature of eac3, that allows to increase the compression/quality

For me compression is destroy the quality of the original source.

It was a help for old players, but with new smart players the compression can be done on the fly and apply it for all codecs when it is necesary, not forced with the Dolby settings.

[Siso]

LAVFilters-0.78.0-9.exe is incomplete. Can you fix it?

[nevcairiel]

LAV Filters 0.79

LAV Splitter
- NEW: Support for demuxing VVC video
- Changed: Updated language lists to support all relevant language codes
- Changed: Improved resilience of streaming HLS
- Changed: Tweaked frame rate detection logic

LAV Video:
- NEW: Support for decoding VVC video


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.79.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.79.zip) & 64-bit (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.79-x64.zip)

Another update primarily for updating FFmpeg, which brought us VVC decoding. The decoder is still under development and considered experimental - and of course software only and not fully optimized yet.

In the last weeks i've also replaced my hosting infrastructure for the files as well as the Git repositories, but since noone complained much yet, it seems to have been all working so far!

As always, report issues and regressions, in as much detail as possible.

[AngelGraves13]

LAV Filters 0.79

LAV Splitter
- NEW: Support for demuxing VVC video
- Changed: Updated language lists to support all relevant language codes
- Changed: Improved resilience of streaming HLS
- Changed: Tweaked frame rate detection logic

LAV Video:
- NEW: Support for decoding VVC video


Download: Installer (both x86/x64) (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.79.exe) -- Zips: 32-bit (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.79.zip) & 64-bit (https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.79-x64.zip)

Another update primarily for updating FFmpeg, which brought us VVC decoding. The decoder is still under development and considered experimental - and of course software only and not fully optimized yet.

In the last weeks i've also replaced my hosting infrastructure for the files as well as the Git repositories, but since noone complained much yet, it seems to have been all working so far!

As always, report issues and regressions, in as much detail as possible.

Getting major video stuttering as video player can't understand the frame rate now and instead of trying to display a constant frame rate of say 23.976 it's going down to 21 or 22 frames per second.

Something is wrong with the way this version is reporting frame rates. I'm going to roll back. This release is broken.

[Schwartz]

Working very well here with Youtube and X264 MKV so far. The better HLS handling is much appreciated. Fantastische Codecs.

If I get issues I'll report back.

[nevcairiel]

Getting major video stuttering as video player can't understand the frame rate now and instead of trying to display a constant frame rate of say 23.976 it's going down to 21 or 22 frames per second.

Something is wrong with the way this version is reporting frame rates. I'm going to roll back. This release is broken.

Framerate information is cosmetic, its not used for playback - timestamps drive that.

If you want to be helpful, could tell us what the information says before and after, and maybe provide a sample file thats observing such problems. Otherwise its never getting fixed.

[Francois76l]

Getting major video stuttering as video player can't understand the frame rate now and instead of trying to display a constant frame rate of say 23.976 it's going down to 21 or 22 frames per second.

Something is wrong with the way this version is reporting frame rates. I'm going to roll back. This release is broken.

Same for me I have to roll back to v0.78
I tried different player (MPC-HC, MPC-BE and Potplayer)

[AngelGraves13]

Framerate information is cosmetic, its not used for playback - timestamps drive that.

If you want to be helpful, could tell us what the information says before and after, and maybe provide a sample file thats observing such problems. Otherwise its never getting fixed.

It happens with madvr and with MPC VR. Video literally hitches and stutters every 2 or 3 seconds, like bad frame pacing.

It happens with MKV remuxes in MPC-HC and MPC-BE. Rolling back to the last nightly from 78 worked fine.

[nevcairiel]

The last nightly, as in LAVFilters-0.78.0-10.exe?
That version is completely identical to the release version, other then the version number being changed.

[Sunspark]

I haven't noticed any issues yet.. which decoder are you guys with the hitching using?

[Francois76l]

I rolled back to the last v0.78 version (the one just before your update) and everything worked as usual.
With the last v0.79 version I'm experiencing frame drop and a constant video stuttering every ~2s on a 23.976hz movie.
The rendering time didn't increased

[clsid]

No issue with a standard mkv rip here. Got no other files on current system to test right now.

So guys, please give a sample file that fails.

[Siso]

Just tested it with a mkv movie 1h 40min, no issues here.

[AngelGraves13]

Are the people that are running into issues running a second display at 23.976? That's the setup on the PC with the issue. I'll test at a flat 60hz on my monitor on my second PC when I get home.

Upon further testing...it still does it with 0.79 at 60hz as well.

[AngelGraves13]

The last nightly, as in LAVFilters-0.78.0-10.exe?
That version is completely identical to the release version, other then the version number being changed.

The last version that's bundled with MPC-HC 2.1.7.2 (might be 0.78.0-5 or 0.78.0-8).

Update: Version 0.78.0-8 works fine.

The file I'm testing is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory 4K HDR that I remuxed with MakeMKV. I also tested a 1080p remux of Goosebumps 2015 and it does the same frame pacing issue with version 79.

[AngelGraves13]

I rolled back to the last v0.78 version (the one just before your update) and everything worked as usual.
With the last v0.79 version I'm experiencing frame drop and a constant video stuttering every ~2s on a 23.976hz movie.
The rendering time didn't increased

Same for me...it's like it's spiking DPC latency.

[Sunspark]

I do output 23.976 to my screen.. no drops or stuttering on 1080p. I'm using a copy-back decoder.

You could try checking "disable full-screen optimisations" on the compatibility tab of the player exe properties, see if that changes anything for you.

[AngelGraves13]

I do output 23.976 to my screen.. no drops or stuttering on 1080p. I'm using a copy-back decoder.

You could try checking "disable full-screen optimisations" on the compatibility tab of the player exe properties, see if that changes anything for you.

But the previous version worked fine.

Can confirm it does it on my other system which has a 4090 RTX.

0.78.0-10 and 0.79 have the problem, 0.78.0-8 does not.

I'm going to assume this is the culprit "Prefer average framerate for reporting, with an accuracy fudge"
https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFilters/commit/58474b042add356b77e0c333f80f9f27d9daa0f3