LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[nevcairiel]

Speaking of, the ASAudioHD.ax from TMT3-190 does no longer do full DTS-HD decoding, it now downsamples to 48/16, the version from .185 produces 96/24 on appropriate source files.
I do wonder if its not possible to directly access the dtsdecoderdll.dll, it sounds like eac3to manages to do that, unless i misread some of the comments..

[nightfly]

I would concur with this. I view it as functional encapsulation, i.e. my AVR is my audio handler, my htpc is my video handler/av source. I want it to function like a DVD/BD player.

With bit-streaming support, I basically and finally have the same setup I had for DVDs using spdif/coax for DD/DTS.

I am just glad we have options. I would think that one's system/component setup would dictate things somewhat.


Yea, I could go the decoding route if I wanted to. I personally like letting my receiver do most of the work. However, I have PCM BD's which are where my issue come in. That's the ONLY place I have a problem if I choose to bitstream. Everything else is perfectly fine. However, things like Kill Bill are 5.1 48/16 PCM. So if I have it setup for bitstreaming, clearly I'm using DirectSound renderer to make that work and I don't get exclusive mode for PCM. ReClock solved that issue for me quite a while ago. So that I could bitstream AND get exclusive mode PCM. It still works. Just with that weird issue with TrueHD. Meh. I'm not overly concerned. It works. :) That's why I asked James to implement the bitstreaming passthrough to begin with.

[SamuriHL]

Speaking of, the ASAudioHD.ax from TMT3-190 does no longer do full DTS-HD decoding, it now downsamples to 48/16, the version from .185 produces 96/24 on appropriate source files.
I do wonder if its not possible to directly access the dtsdecoderdll.dll, it sounds like eac3to manages to do that, unless i misread some of the comments..

I just tried ArcSoft decoder. It's not decoding EAC3 for me. :( That seems bad. Isn't that what Andy saw?

[SamuriHL]

I would concur with this. I view it as functional encapsulation, i.e. my AVR is my audio handler, my htpc is my video handler/av source. I want it to function like a DVD/BD player.

With bit-streaming support, I basically and finally have the same setup I had for DVDs using spdif/coax for DD/DTS.

I am just glad we have options. I would think that one's system/component setup would dictate things somewhat.

That's somewhat how I look at it, as well. I *KNOW* what my Pio can do and has no bugs in decoding. I have a healthy distrust of software decoding. ArcSoft's decoder is near flawless now since we beat on them over the years to get the bugs worked out. It's the only commercial decoder I trust. I trust LAV Audio and have no problem with that. But, it's easier, IMO, just to send the bitstream to the receiver where I know things like decoding, channel mapping, etc are going to be done perfectly. The only issue is PCM which needs to be done in exclusive mode. So, yea, we had the best of both worlds with bitstreaming AND PCM exclusive mode. Other than this minor TrueHD weirdness (really, no one but me is ever going to notice in my house), I still have that and have no reason to complain. :)

[nevcairiel]

Working fine here, remember that it needs a special dll for every format, DTS is dtsdecoderdll.dll, EAC3 is DdpDec71.dll - unless you registered it directly from the TMT directory.

[SamuriHL]

I have all that. I set it up in its own directory. The dll's are all there.

DTS-HD MA works
TrueHD works
DD+ not connecting. It's connecting to some MS crap. :(

[SamuriHL]

Yea, LAV Audio isn't being used at all when EAC3 tracks are being played. :( It works for everything else.

Sorry, I mean ArcSoft Audio Decoder, not LAV Audio. sigh.

[jmone]

DD+ decoding works fine fo for me. It would be interesting if you could hit the Arcsoft DLLs directly!

[jmone]

Sorry I missed why you would not just use LAVAudio for DD+ (unless you have more tjan 5.1)

[SamuriHL]

What is the version on the ddp dll?

Nevermind, you're using LAV Audio. Right, I'm using ArcSoft's decoder for the moment for DD+.

[nevcairiel]

I tested on both a HDDVD sample some of you guys send me, and the Dolby DD+ demo movie, all is fine.

http://images.gammatester.com/pics/6d61ff18c9677d4a347baf1ff62abf31.png

eac3 and arcsoft in the graph..
ASAudioHD.ax from TMT3.185 (file version 1.3.3.219), the DDP dll as well, its version 1.0.1.12

[SamuriHL]

I don't get it. It should be working. :(

[SamuriHL]

Ah forget it. I just went through all of my HD DVD's (except the ones I gave to my wife because I had duplicates on BD so no issue on those) and they are all DD+ 5.1. I could have sworn I had at least one that was 7.1, but, apparently not. (Yes, that sucked going through all of them. I have a lot) In any case that means I can let LAV Audio decode the Dolby formats. Now, if Nev can figure out how to call the dtsdecoder dll directly, we can get rid of everything and let "LAV Audio" decode it all. :D I.E. "Drop the dll in the LAVF x86 install dir and it automagically recognizes it so you can decode full frame DTS-HD MA". No? Awwww, come on. :D

[SamuriHL]

Ok, I've settled on letting LAV Audio decode Dolby and bitstream DTS/DTS-HD MA. ReClock will take care of the rest. :) That seems to work fine for me. I tried bitstreaming DD+ and I got the same audio dropouts that I saw with TrueHD after playing for a few minutes. Decoded to PCM I don't seem to have this issue.

[Boltron]

Been following this thread for a while and I thought I would share my thougths. Actually this is my first ever Doom9 post.

LAV Filters is awesome. I especially love LAV Audio and the new bitstreaming. I have been using it for a while and it's working great with MPC-HC (launched from Windows 7 XBMC) and my Denon AVR-791. I use MKVs exclusively that I rip from Blurays and others that I download. I have tried many TrueHD/DTS MA/PCM/DTS/AC3 movies with 5.1/7.1. PCM was giving me real problems with FFDshow and I tried re-ripping a Bluray with PCM and, to my surprise, LAV Audio worked great (now I have to go re-rip a bunch of Blurays with PCM).

I was poking around on the MPC-HC forum and saw several posts about the possibility one day... maybe... of a LAV Player. That would rock. A simple, clean no compromise on quality player would be so nice. No need for a fancy look, just focused on playback quality. Also, no need to support every codec/format under the sun, just the current main standards.

Nevcairiel, I just want to say, awesome work! It's so nice to see people who still care and take pride in their work.

P.S. You should really consider a Donate button ;)

[VipZ]

Did some testing on latest build,

I don't see a difference in DTS-HD, all good there.

TrueHD is bit harder to say, the sync itself I would say it much better, but when I test on my remux of Training Day HDDVD to a M2TS, on occasional seeks the sync' goes terribly wrong, official 0.25 did go slightly bad as well, but not nearly as much as latest build, but overall its better as just another seek fixes this issue, and it came from HD-DVD and we all know the hassles this causes :p

My AVR always looses and reconnects on a seek, don't see I difference from latest to 0.25 on this.

I would say latest build makes for a positive change overall.

I cant be bothered trying to avoid windows audio, bitstreaming is an easy fix and hasn't given me issues yet :p

[andyvt]

Here is a new bitstreaming test build.

This build introduces new timing logic for TrueHD and DTS-HD - for one it should resolve a minimal sync issue of about 20ms for TrueHD (not that anyone noticed 20ms, ffdshow suffers from the same problem, btw), and its just more "correct" - dumping the outgoing frames looks actually sane now.
DTS-HD timings should be somewhat independent of the source filters timestamps now, while TrueHD still relys on the sources timestamps, but should deal a bit better with weird timing situations.

Anyhow, i would appreciate if you guys can give this some testing on those two HD formats, and see if something broke, looking at A/V sync and all the usual suspects.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.25-22-g9f7db6b.zip

Next up is DD+ timings, its still the worst in the lot, playing without ReClock produces terrible clock jitter...

* All comments above only apply to bitstreaming, in case that wasn't clear.

If you're supporting other splitters: DTS-MA works now with the Sage demux but TrueHD does not; I just get silence.

Thanks

[JustinChase]

Bitstreaming will always have some down sides, i don't feel like recommending it to people when decoding is a viable alternative.
I'm currently only bitstreaming because i'm testing the setup, once i'm convinced it all works fine, i'll switch back to decoding. ;)

For the uninitiated, what are these downsides? I assumed that bitstreaming would be the "best" way to handle things. Obviously that's not true, as I certainly trust nev's opinion over my assumptions :)

I finally got bitstreaming all working on my system, and was thinking I could 'relax' now that i'd gotten it working.

I guess there's always something ;)

[Andy o]

@Samuri, Nev, Jmone, re: DD+ decoding

The only DD+ 7.1 sample I know is the one Nev and I linked (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1498740#post1498740) a few pages back. 7.1 seems to me the only advantage to the Arcsoft decoder over LAV or ffdshow.

I'm having a couple of problem with this though. DD+ 7.1 will only decode properly if I don't seek. When I seek, channels get mucked and I get the center sound in the right channel, etc. Unfortunately I can't test this with another splitter since LAV is the only one that connects to the Arcsoft decoder for DD+ (thanks again, Nev!).

Another problem is with the Arcsoft decoder in general, also happens with DTS-HD and possibly every time the Arc decoder is in the chain. When skipping to another file, or opening by double clicking, the previous one's audio doesn't close and continues playing. If using ReClock, MPC-HC simply crashes.

If anyone could confirm this so I know it's just me, I'd be grateful, btw.

Yea, that's it. ReClock interaction. Otherwise it's flawless.
Have you set up ReClock to disable media adaptation when bitstreaming? Usually that dropout happens when ReClock locks to the screen's rate.

[SamuriHL]

@Samuri, Nev, Jmone, re: DD+ decoding

The only DD+ 7.1 sample I know is the one Nev and I linked (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1498740#post1498740) a few pages back. 7.1 seems to me the only advantage to the Arcsoft decoder over LAV or ffdshow.

I'm having a couple of problem with this though. DD+ 7.1 will only decode properly if I don't seek. When I seek, channels get mucked and I get the center sound in the right channel, etc. Unfortunately I can't test this with another splitter since LAV is the only one that connects to the Arcsoft decoder for DD+ (thanks again, Nev!).

Another problem is with the Arcsoft decoder in general, also happens with DTS-HD and possibly every time the Arc decoder is in the chain. When skipping to another file, or opening by double clicking, the previous one's audio doesn't close and continues playing. If using ReClock, MPC-HC simply crashes.

If anyone could confirm this so I know it's just me, I'd be grateful, btw.


Oh joy. I can't do anymore testing tonight as our shows are on. However, if I get a chance I can try it tomorrow.


Have you set up ReClock to disable media adaptation when bitstreaming? Usually that dropout happens when ReClock locks to the screen's rate.

Of course. I always disable that in ReClock as I *ONLY* use it for bitstream passthrough and PCM exclusive mode. Unless my settings somehow got messed up but I don't think so.

In any case, I'm happy with my current arrangement. I let LAV Audio decode all the Dolby formats and then bitstream the DTS formats. I can live with that. Unless Nev makes some magic way of dropping the DTS decoder from TMT in there and use it directly. Then I'll just use "LAV Audio". :)

[Andy o]

Yeah, I'm mostly happy too, only the Arcsoft decoder crashing MPC-HC when opening new files while one is playing is a real problem for me. The other issue just bugs me cause I don't know if it's my config or what, so if it can be confirmed it happens always, I could just move on :)

[jmone]

Andy, no issue for me on changing tracks in MC though the filter list does not get refreshed if I change Audio tracks that changes the filter. This is cosmetic only and the correct filters get used. I can test the 7.1 sample when I get back in a couple of days. MC recently changed the default mapping for 7.1 though it may be jard for me to confirm everything on my 5.1 setup.

[pankov]

Another problem is with the Arcsoft decoder in general, also happens with DTS-HD and possibly every time the Arc decoder is in the chain. When skipping to another file, or opening by double clicking, the previous one's audio doesn't close and continues playing. If using ReClock, MPC-HC simply crashes.

If anyone could confirm this so I know it's just me, I'd be grateful, btw.
Andy,
this sounds almost exactly as the problem with MPC-HC and ffdshow audio decoder I reported here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1498882#post1498882
and the followup here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1499198#post1499198
I don't have such a problem if I use ZoomPlayer so at the moment I think it's a problem in MPC-HC which doesn't release/destroy the filters correctly.
I'm hoping someone of the more advanced MPC-HC users/developers can shed some light on the problem.

[SamuriHL]

That test I can do now on my laptop, Andy. Give me a minute to set it up.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, so I got everything set up with the stuff I built today (MPC-HC, ffdshow, and LAVF Splitter/Audio) and I did a DTS-HD MA movie to another DTS-HD MA movie (both using ArcSoft) to a EAC3 movie (using LAV Audio). No crash.

[pankov]

Samuri,
if I'm not asking too much can you, please, check the links I've provided about a similar crash and test with my mpc-hc.ini file (linked in the MPC thread).
I'm really puzzled what did I do wrong to get such problems with two of the most popular open source applications.
:(

[SamuriHL]

Yea, um, I did forget to mention something about my particular MPC-HC build. :) You know how.....MPC has "internal filters?" :D Mine doesn't. As in none. I build mine with absolutely no filters at all. :) So, I don't think that's going to help you.

[Andy o]

Thanks guys. I'll have to reinstall everything again. At least it should be fixable.

[Andy o]

Andy,
this sounds almost exactly as the problem with MPC-HC and ffdshow audio decoder I reported here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1498882#post1498882
and the followup here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1499198#post1499198
I don't have such a problem if I use ZoomPlayer so at the moment I think it's a problem in MPC-HC which doesn't release/destroy the filters correctly.
I'm hoping someone of the more advanced MPC-HC users/developers can shed some light on the problem.

Yeah, that's exactly what's happening to me. Weird that it happens to us with different decoders. Doesn't happen for me with ffdshow.

FWIW, I was having other, random, crashes before when switching files with any filters, and I'm pretty sure my .ini file was corrupted. Since, I'm not using the "save settings to .ini" option.

[SamuriHL]

My advice to both of you would be to wipe your MPC-HC settings clean.

[pankov]

Sadly I've done this multiple times and it doesn't help
:(
If only I add ffdshow audio decoder as preferred decoder for AAC/AC3/DTS and disable the internal one I'm stuck with this problem
:(
now that I've complained about it a little I've remembered that I've never tried to wipe my FFDShow settings.
I'll do it tomorrow though because it's 04:21 in the morning here in Bulgaria and I'm hardly focusing the text on the monitor anymore.

[SamuriHL]

Sadly I've done this multiple times and it doesn't help
:(
If only I add ffdshow audio decoder as preferred decoder for AAC/AC3/DTS and disable the internal one I'm stuck with this problem
:(
now that I've complained about it a little I've remembered that I've never tried to wipe my FFDShow settings.
I'll do it tomorrow though because it's 04:21 in the morning here in Bulgaria and I'm hardly focusing the text on the monitor anymore.

You and Andy should temporarily try my custom build. I don't necessarily recommend this as a permanent solution but, see if this helps at all.

http://www.mediafire.com/?t9b24gceszgq7uc

That's MPC-HC with *NO* internal filters at all. When you look at the internal filters page, it will be completely empty.

[Andy o]

@Nev, sorry for taking this OT again, we should continue at the MPC-HC thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1499655#post1499655) now that we know it's probably not related to any filters in particular.

@Samuri, thanks, will try that build.

[SamuriHL]

@Nev, sorry for taking this OT again, we should continue at the MPC-HC thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1499655#post1499655) now that we know it's probably not related to any filters in particular.

@Samuri, thanks, will try that build.

Well, there is a common theme in that you're both using LAVF Splitter, yes? Nonetheless, I agree we should continue in the MPC thread for now until we can narrow this down a bit.

[Andy o]

Actually it was happening with other splitters (MPC, and I think I tested Haali as well).

[SamuriHL]

Ok, then we'll continue in MPC thread.

[Andy o]

For the uninitiated, what are these downsides? I assumed that bitstreaming would be the "best" way to handle things. Obviously that's not true, as I certainly trust nev's opinion over my assumptions :)

I finally got bitstreaming all working on my system, and was thinking I could 'relax' now that i'd gotten it working.

I guess there's always something ;)

Depends on your hardware, and what filters you are using too. Since now you can connect to a full DD+ decoder (Arcsoft) with the LAV splitter, the final piece of the puzzle is in.

One of the main advantages of decoding is that video and audio clocks are never exactly synchronized, and this leads usually to dropped or repeated video frames. ReClock fixes that by resampling the audio on-the-fly, but it requires decoded audio.

If your card and display are accurate enough though, you can get by with bitstreaming without a frame error for more than an hour, which is perfectly acceptable for most (including me). I am such a lucky guy, and I think other ATI users too. Nvidia though is less accurate, and for me, the GTX460 did about 23.973 which yielded a frame repeat every several minutes (too tired to do the exact math).

Other advantages are that you have more options for software decoding, while if you have a bug with your receiver's decoding (as I and others have found out) you'll have to do a firmware update, and that's only if you're lucky enough for the mfr to have released one.

[nevcairiel]

Have you set up ReClock to disable media adaptation when bitstreaming? Usually that dropout happens when ReClock locks to the screen's rate.
It does feel like thats what happening, maybe ticking the "slave to audio clock" or whatever it was called helps?

[Casshern]

Quick Bug Report:
with LAV Filters installed the windows performance index can no longer be measured in Windows 7 (x64 here). Log states that playback of file "c:/windows/performance/winsat/Clip_1080_5sec_MPEG2_HD_15mbps.mpg" failed. After uninstalling LAV Filters everything works as expected.

Reproduceability (on my System) 100%. You do not have to run the complete Windows Performance Index, but just try to playback the aforementioned file with microsoft media player. After installing LAV Filters it fails, without LAV Filters it works. There might be some interactions with other splitters installed (haali comes to mind).

[nevcairiel]

Thats not a "mpg" file, its a m2v file, its a raw MPEG-2 video stream. You can make it work by enabling "rawvideo" in the format options, which the "mpegvideo" type is currently folded into. I'll make it a separate option for the next version, as it seems to play just fine.

rawvideo is by default disable because it cannot deal properly with video elementary streams without timestamps, but apparently this type of file is fine.

What is weird, though, is that it doesn't try another splitter filter if LAV Splitter denys the format.

[Andy o]

It does feel like thats what happening, maybe ticking the "slave to audio clock" or whatever it was called helps?

The option is on the bitstream section and it's called "disable media speed correction with bitstream audio (recommended)". So, I just realized Samuri's answer wasn't clear on if he disabled this option (unticked it) or if he disabled media speed correction (ticked it). I probably should have phrased the question better.

[nevcairiel]

As far as i know, that slave option is not directly related to the other one, may still do something different.
I'm stuck at work for the next 8 hours or so, so i cannot test until then.

[Andy o]

I'm pretty sure that one option does the same thing as if you both ticked "slave to audio" AND selected "original speed" in media adaptation. That prevents ReClock from resampling anything, and of course doesn't change the video rate.

[SamuriHL]

The option is on the bitstream section and it's called "disable media speed correction with bitstream audio (recommended)". So, I just realized Samuri's answer wasn't clear on if he disabled this option (unticked it) or if he disabled media speed correction (ticked it). I probably should have phrased the question better.

It's checked. As in media speed correction is disabled.

[Andy o]

I'm having some trouble with Haali splitter installed. Both MPC-HC and Potplayer load it instead of LAV splitter, even though LAV is set to load explicitly on external filters. I have to actively block Haali for it not to show up, but as far as I can tell PotPlayer can't block filters. Doesn't happen with Graphstudio. I have tried lowering the merit to "normal" from "preferred +1", even though LAV already had a higher merit, and it still loads.

Since I'm testing my MPC-HC troubles, I don't have other filters in the chain. ffdshow is uninstalled, and I use the players' decoders.

[nevcairiel]

Use the installer to install LAV, it can overrule Haalis install magic.
You might also need to set the "File Source (Async)" to a higher merit, as thats what LAV Splitter relys on if you do not use the installer to force it to load.

[Andy o]

Thanks, just raising file source (async)'s merit solved it.

[BelowSky]

I had 2 bugs while using MPC-HC with LAV splitter and decoder:
- Clicking "Skip forward" while playing a list of audio files always crashes MPC-HC. In other words, LAV has issues with playlist.
- I need to stop MPC-HC playing a file, before I open another file. Otherwise MPC-HC will just crash.

[nevcairiel]

I can just fine skip between files, thats not a LAV problem.

[SamuriHL]

I had 2 bugs while using MPC-HC with LAV splitter and decoder:
- Clicking "Skip forward" while playing a list of audio files always crashes MPC-HC. In other words, LAV has issues with playlist.
- I need to stop MPC-HC playing a file, before I open another file. Otherwise MPC-HC will just crash.

pankov and Andy_O have the same problem. Check the MPC-HC thread for more discussion on this. Neither have been able to solve this issue, and it's NOT LAV related.