LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[ajp_anton]

When I change subtitle language, the video pauses for half a second. Doesn't matter much as I don't often change subs mid-film (=)), but why does this happen?
LAV-everything + MPC-HC + madVR.

[ddjmagic]

I'm having a small problem with MPC-HC with Lav Filters with i3-2100 when trying to playback a MKV made from a NTSC TV Show episode ripped with MakeMKV, it's mpeg2 9000kbps and DD 2.0 audio, when I playback it seems fine but when move the mouse to the bottom to get the seekbar, instead of the seekbar I get the bottom inch of the picture froze (The rest still plays fine) and then the mouse does not do anything, I have to ctrl-alt-delete to get out of it.
Same thing happens if I try and right click, it freezes. I have tried DXVA on and off, its still the same, any suggestions? Blu-ray are fine!

[Keiyakusha]

Don't forget that the uncompressed picture has to be send yet another time back to the GPU before being send to the display...

Yeah I forgot that...

@nev
Btw what if for example I use cuvid or dxva cb on nvidia but sending result to iGPU (using LucidVirtu)? Or the other way, if I decode via quicksync but then sending stuff to discrete GPU? Would it mean that with this approach bandwidth requirement will be split between GPUs?

[sneaker_ger]

When I change subtitle language, the video pauses for half a second. Doesn't matter much as I don't often change subs mid-film (=)), but why does this happen?
LAV-everything + MPC-HC + madVR.

I think the graph is being rebuild which causes that pause. Some splitter+decoder combinations can avoid that (gabest?).

[Pat357]

Its not about CPU usage (or better to say purevideo engine load) but about bandwidth. Even if DXVA works, Cuvid (and dxva cb?) may not (or at least not at full realtime speed). High bitrate full HD frames in one direction and uncompressed in another - this is may be too much for some gpus. Not that I measured any of this. I just know that newer even budget cards can handle it.
Like said before by other people : not every newer budget card can handle BD video : the GT 510/520 and GT 605/610/620 are now for sale in your shop, but these can handle BD content only in DXVA.
This means no MadVR, limited CUVID (max 30fps), limited interlacing,...

[Keiyakusha]

Like said before by other people : not every newer budget card can handle BD video : the GT 510/520 are still for sale and can handle BD content only in DXVA.
This means no MadVR, limited CUVID (max 30fps), limited interlacing,...
No madvr, deinterlacing or anything else - sure. I never said you can have this all (I never even do realtime deinterlacing or play interlaced streams at all). They can do 24-30fps cuvid, this is all I care about and this all I say. (EDIT: not sure about any OEM cards though)

[Guest]

the GT 510/520 are still for sale and can handle BD content only in DXVA.
This means no MadVR, limited CUVID (max 30fps), limited interlacing,... No! The 520 (VP5) does CUVID decoding way faster than the higher-end VP4 cards. And the postprocessing looks fine to me.

[nevcairiel]

I think the graph is being rebuild which causes that pause. Some splitter+decoder combinations can avoid that (gabest?).

The graph is not rebuilt, its just paused to switch the stream, which causes a minor delay.
It would be possible to avoid that, however the problem is that streams are read-ahead and buffered a bit, so if you change the stream without doing the pause and reset buffers dance, it might take a bunch of seconds until the switch occurs. You can see that with Gabest, if you switch now, it takes a while until it actually changes (more obvious with audio), i prefer an instant switch with a small playback glitch.

No! The 520 (VP5) does CUVID decoding way faster than the higher-end VP4 cards. And the postprocessing looks fine to me.

Even NVIDIA itself admitted that the 520 is not fast enough for full-scale deinterlacing.
I would be very careful with that card. Going the lowest you can find that might potentially still work is not a strategy i would generally recommend. ;)

[mkanet]

Im guessing this is more of an academic point you're making; which is understandable.

From a practical/real-life point... it's a little amusing. I've never had to worry about "bandwidth" when playing back standard BD discs; even on my 6 year old PC. PowerDVD works just fine; with a little help from Reclock, the picture is on par with my 24P capable standalone device; at least my eyes can't tell the difference. I've upgraded my display adapter since 2006; more than once.. But, it wasn't because of 2D bluray playback. I do enjoy watching 3D bluray though very much with my GT640 display card.

Its not about CPU usage (or better to say purevideo engine load) but about bandwidth. Even if DXVA works, Cuvid (and dxva cb?) may not (or at least not at full realtime speed). High bitrate full HD frames in one direction and uncompressed in another - this is may be too much for some gpus. Not that I measured any of this. I just know that newer even budget cards can handle it.

[wanezhiling]

Even NVIDIA itself admitted that the 520 is not fast enough for full-scale deinterlacing.
Since 304.48beta, the 520 was "reborn".:D
Now it works fine with lav cuvid(double fps), even the clip is 1080i 60m size.:)

Of course madVR still costs too much than 520 has.

[kitame]

^ do note that deinterlace and decode are separate matter, stack them and issues will start popping up.

[ddjmagic]

I'm having a small problem with MPC-HC with Lav Filters with i3-2100 when trying to playback a MKV made from a NTSC TV Show episode ripped with MakeMKV, it's mpeg2 9000kbps and DD 2.0 audio, when I playback it seems fine but when move the mouse to the bottom to get the seekbar, instead of the seekbar I get the bottom inch of the picture froze (The rest still plays fine) and then the mouse does not do anything, I have to ctrl-alt-delete to get out of it.
Same thing happens if I try and right click, it freezes. I have tried DXVA on and off, its still the same, any suggestions? Blu-ray are fine!

Works fine this morning :rolleyes: Must of just been a one off :)

[ddjmagic]

It tries to eliminate playlists which have loops or repeated clips in them, but thats not always reliable so it may end up on those wrong tracks in some situations.
Thanks for the answer. It works most of the time anyway, and Its not hard to change to the correct playlist :)
I didn't know if it used some kind of database/list or if it chose it by length/size etc.

Another quick question regarding index.bdmv playback and occasional wrong playlists, is it possible for me to tell Lav Filters what playlist to use on troublesome discs so it chooses the correct one next time I playback that particular movie?
I know its not an huge issue, but it would be nice to get it working 100%, users could report troublesome discs and what the correct playlist should be, then it could be added to a list of some kind.
Not sure if this is even possible :helpful:?
I'd be happy to maintain a list of some kind.

[nevcairiel]

You can simply run the appropriate mpls file from the PLAYLIST folder, instead of the index.bdmv.
LAV does not save such information, and it never will.

[clsid]

If the splitter ever gets a tray icon, it could show the available playlists in there.

[Joniii]

Nevcairiel, any chance you could try the subtitles surface overlay on DXVA, it would be a nice feature for us that use subtitles and prefer to use DXVA.

[dansrfe]

Is DVD playback still planned with LAV Splitter and LAV Video? Thanks!

[nevcairiel]

Nevcairiel, any chance you could try the subtitles surface overlay on DXVA, it would be a nice feature for us that use subtitles and prefer to use DXVA.

Repeating your questions won't help getting it done, its just annoying. :)

Is DVD playback still planned with LAV Splitter and LAV Video? Thanks!

Who ever said anything about the splitter?
I will never write a dvd navigator or anything crappy like that.

Video support is still planned, but its annoying, and i don't watch DVDs, so its a low priority.

[ddjmagic]

You can simply run the appropriate mpls file from the PLAYLIST folder, instead of the index.bdmv.
LAV does not save such information, and it never will.

No other way around this? I use XBMC and a BAT file that tells it to use MPC and open the index.bdmv so playing the mpls file won't work that way.
So is it not possible for LAV to ever work 100% correctly with all Blu-ray discs?
Or is it possible in the future maybe?

Edit: The main reason I'm asking is I noticed AnyDVD HD seems to always show the correct playlist in its status window (On all my discs anyway) I'm just wondering what it does differently to determine that.

[Sebastiii]

@ddjmagic

You can try mediaportal (don't want to push it lol or maybe a little) but with bdhandler plugins, you get a selection list and with 1.3.0Alpha MP has a native Blu-ray player (working with non BD-J one and best user experience with LAV Suite (Thanks Nevcairiel)).

[Joniii]

Repeating your questions won't help getting it done, its just annoying. :)

I know, I just thought you missed it as you didn't say anything. Would be great to know if there is any chance you could even think about it?

[Pat357]

I know, I just thought you missed it as you didn't say anything. Would be great to know if there is any chance you could even think about it?

To avoid that good ideas for additions & improvements will be forgotten, there is a list created with all idea's bundled : http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/list

So, there is no need to ask something over and over again : once it's in the list, it can't be forgotten. :rolleyes:
Because the list is very long, Nev has to make choices on what to do first.

Getting a nice splitter and audio & video codec all for free is of course fun for us (:D), but always remember that it's supposed to be fun for Nev too !! :eek:
As long as it's fun for Nev, he will keep on improving his software and again, it will be fun for everyone !! :D
When it stops being fun for Nev,.... I guess you can figure out yourself what will happen then...

[dansrfe]

@nevcairiel

What about unencrypted bluray menu support?

[ddjmagic]

Edit: The main reason I'm asking is I noticed AnyDVD HD seems to always show the correct playlist in its status window (On all my discs anyway) I'm just wondering what it does differently to determine that.

I take this back, just tried a disc I had trouble with in the past (American Pie USA BD)
AnyDVD HD picks an incorrect playlist, although a different playlist to LAV (which also picks the wrong one)

AnyDVD picks 00805.mpls, which is 00:48:54 long (No chapters) and is just one part of the movie (The playlist plays 0805.m2ts which happens to be the biggest stream file) I'm guessing this is what confuses AnyDVD.

LAV picks the longest playlist 00302.mpls (03:33:30) which is 66 Chapters and contains all the SD special features.

Correct playlists are 00801.mpls (01:35:38) Unrated Cut.
and 00800.mpls (01:35:32) Theatrical Cut with a 4 second ratings logo before the movie.

VLC & XBMC also choose the same playlist as LAV, so I'm guessing that some discs are structured in a way that makes it impossible to determine the correct playlist.

Only thing I could see that maybe could help this particular disc, is if LAV had some kind of rule that if a playlist contained SD content then it skipped it as the main movie and also a rule if the playlist has no chapters then skip as main movie. This would eliminate playlist 00302 & 00801.

Kind of like -
under 15 mins - skip
repeated content - skip
no chapters - skip
SD content - skip (Or just simply prefer HD video/audio content over SD)
Then play longest playlist remaining.

I know this is probably not possible, I'm not a programmer and would have no idea how LAV tries to determine the correct playlist

I know its not a big deal and switching playlists is simple, I just think 100% main movie playback would be a great feature, just trying to help achieve that anyway I can :)

[BetA13]

No other way around this? I use XBMC and a BAT file that tells it to use MPC and open the index.bdmv so playing the mpls file won't work that way.
So is it not possible for LAV to ever work 100% correctly with all Blu-ray discs?
Or is it possible in the future maybe?

Edit: The main reason I'm asking is I noticed AnyDVD HD seems to always show the correct playlist in its status window (On all my discs anyway) I'm just wondering what it does differently to determine that.

hy there mate..im trying out xbmc atm, and like it so far. but i want MPC HC quality in it..the picture with xbmc is terrible..
Could u show me how u set it up so i can use MPC HC with it? or send me ur BAT file so i can take a look at it ?

that would really help me :)

greetz BetA

[ddjmagic]

hy there mate..im trying out xbmc atm, and like it so far. but i want MPC HC quality in it..the picture with xbmc is terrible..
Could u show me how u set it up so i can use MPC HC with it? or send me ur BAT file so i can take a look at it ?

that would really help me :)

greetz BetA

I setup the external player and got the BAT files from this thread -
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=116724

[kitame]

is it possible to integrate ReplayGain or something similar in LAV audio? as an optional addition thats similar to DRC, with normalize matrix it could possibly do both loudness balancing and anti-clipping.
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ReplayGain

thanks for reading my question.

[imperia]

Hello,

I am using LAV codecs to watch digital television.

Since a few days there is UHDTV broadcast available on Astra 2B.
Parameters are 12441V DVB-S2 QPSK SR 29500 FEC 3/4
http://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=706
Resolution is 3840x2160 16:11

My question is:
What is the maximum resolution that video cards like GTX 460 support for hardware decoding? Because LAV decoder is able to play the stream but its using CPU for decoding and this on E8400 is 100% CPU usage. Is it possible for GTX 460 to hardware decode 3840x2160 H264?

[Pat357]

Hello,

I am using LAV codecs to watch digital television.

Since a few days there is UHDTV broadcast available on Astra 2B.
Parameters are 12441V DVB-S2 QPSK SR 29500 FEC 3/4
http://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=706
Resolution is 3840x2160 16:11

My question is:
What is the maximum resolution that video cards like GTX 460 support for hardware decoding? Because LAV decoder is able to play the stream but its using CPU for decoding and this on E8400 is 100% CPU usage. Is it possible for GTX 460 to hardware decode 3840x2160 H264?
Unfortunately not : the GTX 460 is also a VP 4 (video processor 4th generation) and for all VP4's max. resolution for HW is 1920x1080.
Only the newer VP5 cards can do 3840x2160 in HW (like for example CUDA/CUVID).
Note that LAV might block higher resolutions than 1920x1080 to prevent problems with unsupported cards.

This is for NVidia, I don't know for AMD, but I'm sure someone else will enlighten us.

[imperia]

I tried running DXVA Checker. Here are the results from first page, but I don't know to read them :)


NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
ModeMPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2and1_VLD: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_VLD: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_A: DXVA1, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_C: DXVA1, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG1_VLD: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_VLD2010: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_VLD: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_IDCT: DXVA1/2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_IDCT: DXVA1/2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
32FCFE3F-DE46-4A49-861B-AC71110649D5: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG4pt2_VLD_Simple: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG4pt2_VLD_AdvSimple_NoGMC: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
9947EC6F-689B-11DC-A320-0019DBBC4184: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
B194EB52-19A0-41F0-B754-CC244AC1CB20: DXVA2, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080 / 3840x2160

PS. I think I got it now :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo

[vad74]

nevcairiel
If XBMC in fullscreen mode uses D3D Exclusive mode, then the decoder just cannot get access to the required D3D interfaces, because its locked by XBMC. That is all.
If XBMC in fullscreen mode and in LAV selected DXVA, then the active decoder is DXVA. Only QuickSync dont work.

[Mixer73]

Hey guys

I installed LAV on my 7MC rig to get MKV support and audio formats and all that, but it seems to have borked WMV playback in MCE.... Are there any specific settings I should set or avoid with splitter/decoder in order to let WMC play back WMV files successfully?

[Warlock]

Guys, can you help me set up the lav according to my gpu? I own a GF 8600GT, 512MB DDR3. I'm currently using mpc-hc + lav + madvr + madflac + Haali.

[aufkrawall]

This is for NVidia, I don't know for AMD, but I'm sure someone else will enlighten us.
Southern Islands cards should support 4k, but actually they don't (bugged).

[pankov]

And here you can download a sample from this 2160p UHDTV test stream at Astra
http://www.mediafire.com/?dz6j9e6jj8g0yfc

Nev,
can you, please, check it out.
I see couple of issues with it
1. The aspect ratio looks incorrect - the image seems too much vertically squeezed. If my math is correct 16:11 should be taller than 16:9 but this one is even shorter than 2.35:1.
2. Intel's QuickSync decoder is not working just as the NVidia one. Is this by design or should I address Eric with this problem?

[mrcorbo]

And here you can download a sample from this 2160p UHDTV test stream at Astra
http://www.mediafire.com/?dz6j9e6jj8g0yfc

Nev,
can you, please, check it out.
I see couple of issues with it
1. The aspect ratio looks incorrect - the image seems too much vertically squeezed. If my math is correct 16:11 should be taller than 16:9 but this one is even shorter than 2.35:1.
2. Intel's QuickSync decoder is not working just as the NVidia one. Is this by design or should I address Eric with this problem?

I tried playing this clip in mpc-hc w/ lav, mplayer, and vlc and all played with the same aspect ratio. In the pin info in LAV, the VIDEOINFOHEADER2 has the clip's aspect ratio as 181:70. In addition, both Mplayer and VLC handled the clip poorly with bad artifacting.

The clip itself seems to have issues. If anything, LAV seems to be handling it better than expected.

[SeeMoreDigital]

And here you can download a sample from this 2160p UHDTV test stream at Astra
http://www.mediafire.com/?dz6j9e6jj8g0yfc

Nev,
can you, please, check it out.
I see couple of issues with it
1. The aspect ratio looks incorrect - the image seems too much vertically squeezed. If my math is correct 16:11 should be taller than 16:9 but this one is even shorter than 2.35:1.
2. Intel's QuickSync decoder is not working just as the NVidia one. Is this by design or should I address Eric with this problem?

Here's the files spec according to DGAVCIndex: -
Stream Type: Transport [188]
Profile: High
Level: 5.1
Frame Size: 3840x2160
SAR: 16:11
Display Size: 5585x2160
Frame Rate: 25.000000 fps
Colorimetry: BT.601 [5]
Frame Structure: Frame
Frame Type: not yet
Coded Number: 106
Playback Number: 106
Frame Repeats: 0
Field Repeats: 0
Bitrate: 35.715
Bitrate (Avg): 48.719
Bitrate (Max): 72.559
It would seem the video stream has been given a the incorrect SAR...

[pankov]

SeeMoreDigital,
why do you say that the SAR is incorrect?
I think the problem comes from the DAR. The SAR is more believable even though I think it looks better at 16:9 or 16:10.
So can somebody else capture some samples from this test stream and confirm/deny that it's actually the transmission that's broken not our playback chains.
If we leave the AR issue aside we are still left with the question - can this sort of material be played with some kind of hardware decoding.
From what I've read Quick Sync should be able to handle it.

[nevcairiel]

Only Ivy Bridge does 4K decoding, if you're running it on your 2500k from your signature, no 4K for you.

NVIDIA (via CUVID) only supports it with VP5 (VDPAU Feature Set D). AMD claims to support it with the 7xxx series, but in my tests, it just failed miserably.

In other news, the stream seems terrible broken in general.

[pankov]

Thanks, Nev,
I've obviously got the quick sync talk wrong. I thought that all QS CPUs support 4K.
Now that you've said that only Ivy Bridge ones do I tried it on my other PC with Core i5 3570K and with it LAV successfully used the Quick sync decoder.
:)
There was one other problem though - if I use madVR to render at 1920x1080p it crashes ... I guess Intel's HD4000 GPU can't handle it.
I'll do more test on this issue later.
Nevertheless when I use EVR it plays smoothly without errors but still brings the CPU in its highest performance state and uses around 20-25% of it's resources. These percentages are divided between the following threads:
LAVSplitter.ax -> 8-9%
IntelQuickSyncDecoder.dll -> 6-7%
IntelQuickSyncDecoder.dll -> 3-4%
LAVVideo.ax -> ~1%
all the rest are ~0% each

I then played a normal 1080i50 DVB stream and the total CPU usage was ~3-4% of which the LAVSplitter was around 1.5-2% and IntelQS -> 0.7-1%.

Is this all sound normal to you?
I'm not complaining - I just want to know if my systems are behaving as expected.

[Pat357]

Nev,

Lav-splitter seems to fail on this posted 4k DVB .TS stream for me.
When trying to play this .TS using MPC-HC and LAV (vid+splitt), the video stalls at the start. It never starts playing ! :confused:
When I just change the splitter (MPC internal) everything plays fine.
If I remux .TS to MKV, lav-splitter (+LAV-vid) is OK and plays nice too.

I'm I the only one with a "borking" LAV-splitter ?
I just want to know if something messed with my DShowfilters and might have broken some things.

EDIT : Reinstalling LAV-filters seems to have solved it....
-
Nvidia GTX-570, i7-core 970@3.8, 24GB RAM DDR3-2000
Areca HW RAID controller 8x SATA6 + 8x WD2000FYYS disks.
OCZ vertex 3 240GB.

[nevcairiel]

You're simply running some random build, and not the release. :p
Apparently the version of ffmpeg currently in my ffmpeg repository has some issues with it, causing these problems.

Edit:
And i pushed an ffmpeg update which was long overdue anyway

[mzso]

If you're happy with the decoder, it doesn't matter what video card you use.
Hardware deinterlacing is the only thing really missing with ATI for a "perfect" setup with madVR,

Is this still the case? I was talking to someone who said AMD had some sort of vector adaptive hardware deinterlacer (which is supposed to better than NVIDIA-s). Or the issue never was the lack of deinterlacing support from the driver, but for some reason the inability to use it? (Like with CUVID)

(Also there's an option for DXVA in LAV for decoding, doesn't that also have deinterlacing capability?)

[nevcairiel]

That quote was from before madVR got hardware deinterlacing options, i guess, so it doesn't apply anymore.

[mzso]

That quote was from before madVR got hardware deinterlacing options, i guess, so it doesn't apply anymore.

I see. Guess it uses whatever the driver provides.

OK, so what was the obstacle with using the driver's deinterlacing with LAV in case of an AMD video adapter?

[mindbomb]

it wasn't that AMD had a problem, it was more that the cuvid mode gave nvidia an advantage at the time by allowing deinterlacing through the video decoder rather than the renderer.

and since madvr didn't support deinterlacing, that was a really useful feature at the time.

[mzso]

it wasn't that AMD had a problem, it was more that the cuvid mode gave nvidia an advantage at the time by allowing deinterlacing through the video decoder rather than the renderer.

and since madvr didn't support deinterlacing, that was a really useful feature at the time.

I see. I was a bit confused on the hows and whys.

So out of curiosity either of NVIDIA's or AMD's hardware deinterlacer considered better? (comparing the best methods)

Edit:
So I tried deinterlacing with madVR instead of LAV with one specific file and I didn't get any dropped frames outside the start of video. I'm guessing its probably using a different method, but I can't know for sure. (I have an NVIDIA card of course). If this is the case which LAV settings result in the same method for deinterlacing?

[Pat357]

Hello,

not sure if this thread is appropriate for it, but:

How do you make hardware acceleration work on videos with resolutions beyond 1920x1080 using GT 520 (GF119) + MPC-HC x64 1.6.3.5818 (EVR) + LAV Filters x64 0.51.3 (DXVA2 native)?

Thanks in advance.
I hope you didn't find a 2160i (interlaced) video ??
What is the resolution from your video ?
Try it with LAV CUDA or LAV CB, as in these modes IIRC, there are no blocks on any resolutions. (res > 1080p HD)
LAV Native DXVA might block some res. higher then 1920x1088 IIRC

[GTPVHD]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6263/intel-haswell-architecture-disclosure-live-blog


Higher encode quality, faster Quick Sync with GT3

Introducing hardware based SVC codec, can encode once and playback multiple times

4Kx2K video acceleration is supported

Moved some video processing stuff off the EU array into a dedicated video quality engine

Hardware image stabilization is new in Haswell

In the past only had two concurrent engines: codec and imaging/scale/composite, now you can do more in parallel as long as there's enough bandwidth to sustain


Haswell looking pretty good at the moment for video decoding and post processing.

[kitame]

@jq963152 - not possible, the GT520 already struggles with 1080p, or if it is possible it ain't gonna be pretty.
plus whats the point of HW if you got muscle CPUs ._. not like 20% load on the CPU adds 30watts more(thats the GPU's equivalent power consumption)