Media Player Classic - Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - v1.7.13

[James Freeman]

So, MPC-HC loads ffdshow, which loads a winamp plugin, which loads a VST plugin? Sounds slightly convoluted.
Very Sad, Very True. :(
Hope someone above reads this and nods his head agreeably and decides to implement VST into MPC-HC right away... Amen.
Just adding basic Compressor and EQ makes any player many times more useful, VST plugins in MPC-HC makes a player a home theater wet dream and saves million feature requests in the future. ;)

Currently I use my Audio Interface to route (loopback) the main windows output channels back to a DAW in which I load VST plugins and output them to a different output to my monitors.
But when I change my Default Playback device to my TV (Nvidia via HDMI), the audio interface with all its routing abilities no longer functioning obviously, now how do I use VST plugins?
Unfortunately ffdshow -> Winamp plugins -> VST Host -> plugin, simply does not work in the x64 version.

EDIT:
I see there is a new Internal Audio Renderer, how is it better than the Default System (DirectSound) one?

[ShadyCrab]

New audio renderer is finally here :), and its working really well on this end. Exclusive mode works as expected, and the stereo crossfeed with the J. Meier settings sound great. I've stopped using Dolby Home Theatre v4 because of it, the mixing and crossfeed here sounds far less processed.

Also, happy to know this uses its own HQ sample rate conversion rather than passing it to Windows.

So happy this is finally here, and it delivered far more than I expected. Kudos to the developer of sanear :)

I've noticed that the limiter DSP is in effect only with exclusive mode, shared mode doesn't have it enabled. Does it not need it for mixing within shared?

@James Freeman
From the GitHub page (https://github.com/alexmarsev/sanear, changelog):
* Outputs sound through WASAPI (shared or exclusive)
* Employs automatic channel downmixing (as per standard)
* Provides stereo crossfeed processing option (for headphones)
* Tries to preserve signal pitch when playing at custom rate (time stretching)
* Uses audio device clock as clock source
* Comes in 32-bit and 64-bit versions
* Supports bitstreaming

[ryrynz]

New audio renderer is finally here :), and its working really well on this end.

It sounds great! Can/will it ever be made available in the standalone package?

[kasper93]

@ShadyCrab: It is also in MPC-HC changelog.
@ryrynz: It is already available. https://github.com/alexmarsev/sanear/releases

I think saner is mostly described in changelog. It supports HQ processing, you can see which processors are actually used in status page. Nice everyday feature not described is that it can change audio device on fly and WASAPI mode. New audio renderer is all about robustness and stability.

I've noticed that the limiter DSP is in effect only with exclusive mode, shared mode doesn't have it enabled. Does it not need it for mixing within shared?

In shared mode there is not output format restriction, in exclusive mode audio renderer need to output format that is supported by your sound card. Hence the limiter, because most sound card doesn't support float input.

[James Freeman]

@James Freeman
From the GitHub page (https://github.com/alexmarsev/sanear, changelog):
* Outputs sound through WASAPI (shared or exclusive)
* Employs automatic channel downmixing (as per standard)
* Provides stereo crossfeed processing option (for headphones)
* Tries to preserve signal pitch when playing at custom rate (time stretching)
* Uses audio device clock as clock source
* Comes in 32-bit and 64-bit versions
* Supports bitstreaming
Thank you.
Would you suggest switching to this renderer instead of the default one?

Does anyone knows if alexmarsev the developer of this new renderer is a user of this forum?
He appears to be a talented programmer, and if he accepts (audio renderer related) requests I would like to ask him if he could implement a VST host in his new rendrer.

I have found a simple code example for a VST host, searching "vst host code" in google:
http://teragonaudio.com/article/How-to-make-your-own-VST-host.html

Also the best free VSTHost has an open source code (at the bottom):
http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm

[ryrynz]

@ryrynz: It is already available.

Ah, of course..
Apparently I can change a stereo crossfeed option for headphones somewhere.
Where do I do this? There's only Status and Pin Info tabs. Still a work in progress with that?

Thank you.
Would you suggest switching to this renderer instead of the default one?


Even in it's current early final state I think it's superior.

[ShadyCrab]

@kasper93
Makes perfect sense, explains what that DSP is. It sounded like something for mixing, like Clipping Protection or something. (does this renderer have any form of normalization or clipping prevention?)

@ryrynz
Options->Internal Filters->Audio Renderer

[ryrynz]

Options->Internal Filters->Audio Renderer

I assume these options aren't exposed yet when using it as as a standalone package? If not I'll create an issue for it.

NVM found the Tray icon..

[wanezhiling]

http://i1.tietuku.com/3c4e798fbe4d91cb.png
http://i1.tietuku.com/75692d02fed3ec09.png
The layout should be designed again I think.:)

[James Freeman]

http://i1.tietuku.com/3c4e798fbe4d91cb.png
http://i1.tietuku.com/75692d02fed3ec09.png
The layout should be designed again I think.:)

Why? Looks fine to me.
In the Output you select what renderer to use, and in the Device you select what device to use.

[cremor]

* Tries to preserve signal pitch when playing at custom rate (time stretching)

Could someone please explain this point? Does this mean that the new audio renderer can do PAL slowdown/speedup like ReClock? Or is it the exact opposite and the new audio renderer can't be used with ReClock?


Also a question about the new settings panel that says "To minimize sound distortion, it is recommended to keep player volume at around 85% when playing loud lossy-encoded content". Does this mean that the "original" volume of the content is at 85%? And that 100% amplifies the volume? If true, was this already the case for the old audio renderer?

[e-t172]

Also a question about the new settings panel that says "To minimize sound distortion, it is recommended to keep player volume at around 85% when playing loud lossy-encoded content". Does this mean that the "original" volume of the content is at 85%? And that 100% amplifies the volume? If true, was this already the case for the old audio renderer?

Nah, I think it's just paranoia about lossy decoders outputting a signal that's slightly different from the original signal (by definition, since it's lossy). Therefore, at least in theory, a signal that wasn't clipping originally could end up clipping in the output of a lossy decoder. I am highly skeptical about this being a practical problem though - especially since TV/movies are not normalized in the first place, they are mastered at a reference level and rarely reach 0dBFS in practice. Unless someone can come up with evidence that this is an actual problem (e.g. by providing a sample), I would not think too much about this.

[huhn]

* Uses audio device clock as clock source

what clock was used before?

[ShadyCrab]

Is there an option coming to allow outputting the channel layout straight to the receiver without mixing it to the Windows settings? Many receivers have many algo's for upmixing stereo (PCM too) to multiple speakers, to mix 5.1 to 7.1 and more, and it makes sense to allow this without bitstreaming and for codecs like FLAC/AAC.

@huhn
I did see in one the tickets a mention that the MPC-BE exclusive one didn't sync to any clock, and DirectSound seems to do the same already I think.

@cremor
It pitch shifts for when you play the movie at 2x speed, so it doesn't go all high-pitched, but still maintains that speed. In the TO-DO file in the GitHub folder, it mentions something about reclock functionality, so it seems that speedup is coming.

[JarrettH]

Thank you.
Would you suggest switching to this renderer instead of the default one?

Does anyone knows if alexmarsev the developer of this new renderer is a user of this forum?
He appears to be a talented programmer, and if he accepts (audio renderer related) requests I would like to ask him if he could implement a VST host in his new rendrer.

I have found a simple code example for a VST host, searching "vst host code" in google:
http://teragonaudio.com/article/How-to-make-your-own-VST-host.html

Also the best free VSTHost has an open source code (at the bottom):
http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm

Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
what do you think about the new MPC-HC Internal Audio Renderer?
Any benefits using it instead of the default DirectSound?

It's exciting for people like me who have been waiting for ages for WASAPI support. USB audio needs WASAPI to detect the input sample rate.

[ryrynz]

It's exciting for people like me who have been waiting for ages for WASAPI support.

Why were you waiting when mpc-be already had a standalone wasapi renderer you could've used?

[JarrettH]

I didn't want to switch just for that.

MPC-BE isn't good at promoting itself. Their homepage is sourceforge - not good for newbies - and the three websites I clicked describe MPC-BE as having additional features and bug fixes....okay??? which are??? The only sure thing anyone knows about it is it's black...somehow

[ryrynz]

I didn't want to switch just for that.

MPC-BE isn't good at promoting itself. Their homepage is sourceforge - not good for newbies - and the three websites I clicked describe MPC-BE as having additional features and bug fixes....okay??? which are??? The only sure thing anyone knows about it is it's black...somehow

The audio renderer is stand alone you don't need BE to use it. Anyway you answered the question, you simply didn't know about it.
I believe this new audio renderer will be superior anyway, if it isn't already.

[akim]

.....

[EncodedMango]

I'm getting a strange issue for the past few days with MPC-HC that it's wiping the recent files list at random, I haven't yet nailed down how to reproduce it and the only "changes" I've made are switch to 64bit MPC-HC from 32, didn't carry over any settings etc so no chance of leftover cruft, did it all manually. I checked and even increased the value of recent files to remember but to no avail.

1.7.9, stable, not nightly.

[LigH]

Do you have any additional system cleaning utilities which may scan for MRU lists?

[EncodedMango]

Do you have any additional system cleaning utilities which may scan for MRU lists?
That really is strange, never saw this behaviour with CCleaner on the x86 variant(maybe faulty registry/detection). Unchecked MPC from the list, thanks, hopefully that solves it.

[bcec]

Hey folks, I have some videos where embedded pgs subtitle has a solid black background. Is there anyway to remove that opaque black background while playing the video in mpc-hc?

[nevcairiel]

Hey folks, I have some videos where embedded pgs subtitle has a solid black background. Is there anyway to remove that opaque black background while playing the video in mpc-hc?

If the subtitles intentionally have a background in them, then there isn't anything that can be done really.

[baii]

The audio renderer tab doesn't have effect yet I assume? for x64 nightly

[sneaker_ger]

Sure, why not? But you actually have to enable the new audio renderer in Options->Playback->Output->Audio Renderer. ("Internal Audio Renderer")

[baii]

Sure, why not? But you actually have to enable the new audio renderer in Options->Playback->Output->Audio Renderer. ("Internal Audio Renderer")

Thanks, Just noticed that, thought they made it as default ~

[DzigiBau]

Could someone help me make MPC-HC working.

It cannot play a thing, does not matter what format mp4, mkv, wmv, mov, avi all of them crashes MPC-HC, giving me opportunity to write down some comments for crashing.

I find out that MPC-HC probably building wrong codec graph in itself for internal or eternal codecs, especially with LAV Splitter.

Funny thing here is that I installed LAV codec only, video, audio and splitter and they work in Zoom Player without any problem, playing even HEVC videos. I saw that in Filter properties. I do not have any of codec packs.

I have AMD based system with ATI graphic card on 15.7 newest graphic driver. Could developers try to fix this in some newer MPC-HC builds.

[huhn]

can you post a sample of the file that doesn't work? i don't know of any real issue with mpc-hc at all.

a crash report may help too.

[oddball]

MPC-HC seems busted on Windows 10. I get small video windows using EVR CP and Sync and MadVR gives an error 'Failed to create direct3d device'. I thought it might be the internal splitter/filters but I tried using external filters with the same results. Using MPC-BE works fine with MadVR in Win10.

Can anyone else confirm the same issues?

[iron2000]

On Windows 10 the decoder text and remain time text is super tiny:
http://i.imgur.com/Uay7If8.png

[kasper93]

And any other Windows version... It is already fixed and will be avaliable in today's nightly.

[vivan]

So, since Windows 10 is officially out... It seems that they have changed windows border size, so now "Snap to desktop edges" option snaps not exactly to screen edges:
Bottom left http://i.imgur.com/c2scIYp.png
Top right http://i.imgur.com/xl43AgS.png
(size should be increased by 7 pixels in all directions except top)

[kasper93]

This one is ugly. GetWindowRect() function seems to be acting like there were normal thick borders even though they are thin ones. I mean it returns 0 as left offset when it clearly is not. Microsoft did something strange here.

EDIT:

In fact the borders are there. They are invisible but you will see "sizing" cursor when hovered on those invisible borders. I have Win10 on tablet so it was hard to notice on small screen.

[DzigiBau]

can you post a sample of the file that doesn't work? i don't know of any real issue with mpc-hc at all.

a crash report may help too.

It does not work at all. MPC-HC crashes with all files, mp4, mkv, mov, wmv, hevc, without any crash report, it just gives me opportunity to write some notes to authors, no crash report at all.

I did change graphic card from HD5770 to R9 280. What is funny thing, Zoom Player works, VLC works, MPC-HC crashes every time with all possible video files.

I do not have any codec packs, just installed LAV codec to try making MPC-HC work, but no results yet. It crashes with default settings, with all internal codecs selected and also it crashes with all internal codec deselected and switched to external filter, where I put Lav Video codec, Audio Codec and Splitter.

Could you help to make MPC-HC work if possible.

[vivan]

EDIT:

In fact the borders are there. They are invisible but you will see "sizing" cursor when hovered on those invisible borders. I have Win10 on tablet so it was hard to notice on small screen.Yeah. On the other hand - when you use Aero Snap (when you move window to the side and it scales to the half of the screen) it ignores those invisible borders. I wonder what coordinates/sizes does it report in this case...

[kasper93]

it just gives me opportunity to write some notes to authors, no crash report at all.


It doesn't open a page with report? Not good. First of all could you try latest nightly build https://nightly.mpc-hc.org/ it might be fixed already. If not, go to internal video decoder settings and disable DXVA. If nothing helps, try to reset settings to default. And if it still will not work we will send you debug build with some logging.

[kasper93]

Yeah. On the other hand - when you use Aero Snap (when you move window to the side and it scales to the half of the screen) it ignores those invisible borders. I wonder what coordinates/sizes does it report in this case...

This will be fixed for next nightly. Not today's one. Because my PC died few days and the issue took longer to diagnose by U78 who don't have Win10. And I have it on tablet and was reporting to him how it works, eh nevermind.

There is a way to get window size without invisible borders and basically it snaps at -7 instead of 0 now, because of invisible borders. Anyway will be fixed along with autofit which take borders into account too.

[DzigiBau]

It doesn't open a page with report? Not good. First of all could you try latest nightly build https://nightly.mpc-hc.org/ it might be fixed already. If not, go to internal video decoder settings and disable DXVA. If nothing helps, try to reset settings to default. And if it still will not work we will send you debug build with some logging.

Thank you kasper93.

I tried what you said, using some small video clips, mostly movie trailers in different formats mp4, mov, mkv, avi, mpg. The results are:

1. Nightly build you proposed, crashes immediately with every format I tried, no crash report, nor message box for reporting the problem.

2. Disabled DXVA inside internal LAV Video decoder settings. The same situation, crashes immediately.

3. Reset all settings in Miscellaneous/Reset, it crashes giving me this report:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: mpc-hc.exe
Application Version: 1.7.9.121
Application Timestamp: 55b94e36
Fault Module Name: StackHash_75d7
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.18869
Fault Module Timestamp: 55636303
Exception Code: c0000374
Exception Offset: 000c3c23
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 5146
Additional Information 1: 75d7
Additional Information 2: 75d7e1c07a0a98139c219aec9cd95327
Additional Information 3: 50e7
Additional Information 4: 50e73790e86a6e80a42663b1f6f8b83b

Furthermore, Zoom Player uses Lav Splitter 0.65, Lav Video decoder and Lav Audio decoder in the same samples I tried, playing them perfectly, with DXVA turned ON. It is probably the problem how MPC-HC handles decoders which makes it crashing every time.

What can I do to make MPH-HC work.

[clsid]

The crashes are most likely caused by an application that is hooking into other apps. For example your virus-scanner.

[Megalith]

Can someone explain the difference between the internal Audio Switcher and LAV Audio? They both seem to do similar things and have an effect on the sound, so only one or the other should be activated, right? Which one actually does a better job of downmixing?

[James Freeman]

Can anyone please suggest a Dynamic Range Compression plugin or a way to properly do that in MPC-HC?
I have tried AC3Filter DRC and it works good, but I still want to use LAV Audio.

[Thunderbolt8]

LAV Audio has a setting for DRC (for formats that support it)

[huhn]

Can anyone please suggest a Dynamic Range Compression plugin or a way to properly do that in MPC-HC?
I have tried AC3Filter DRC and it works good, but I still want to use LAV Audio.

just change ac3 filter to pcm only

[DzigiBau]

The crashes are most likely caused by an application that is hooking into other apps. For example your virus-scanner.

Could you explain me:

1. Does MPC-HC have some part that antivirus treats as a virus or

2. Is ti possible to fix such a thing, since I do not wnat to turn off antivirus just to make it working.

For instance, MPC-BE works for all formats but for HEVC, I just tried.

What is possible to do to make MPC-HC working as it was before, out of box, without any tweaks.

[James Freeman]

just change ac3 filter to pcm only

Thank you very very much!
Exactly what I wanted.

[clsid]

Could you explain me:

1. Does MPC-HC have some part that antivirus treats as a virus or
2. Is ti possible to fix such a thing, since I do not wnat to turn off antivirus just to make it working.
For instance, MPC-BE works for all formats but for HEVC, I just tried.

What is possible to do to make MPC-HC working as it was before, out of box, without any tweaks.Which scanner do you use?

Try some older versions of MPC-HC. Even though it is not the fault of MPC-HC, knowing if an older version is working OK is helpful for the developers to figure out the cause.

https://nightly.mpc-hc.org/old/

[clsid]

Can someone explain the difference between the internal Audio Switcher and LAV Audio? They both seem to do similar things and have an effect on the sound, so only one or the other should be activated, right? Which one actually does a better job of downmixing?No, no, no. They do completely different things. LAV is a decoder and has a mixing option. The primary job of the audio switcher is switching between audio streams. It also has a volume boost/normalize option. It does NOT offer any mixing functionality, only channel mapping, which is pretty useless. For most people the audio switcher can be disabled.

[Snowknight26]

I think he means the new audio renderer.

[James Freeman]

After huhn comment that I can use AC3Filter only on PCM after LAV decodes with the benefit of DTS-HD, I realize I have been missing this great filter for a long time.
AC3Filter has a proper Mixer, DRC (with customizable rise and fall times), EQ and Bass Management.