ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[nightfly]

" Here are the setups of MPC-HC for bitstreaming HD:"

Is this just for ATI 5xxx cards? I presume. BTW, thanks for documenting that. I've been following this projects progress for some time and now, due to the holidays, have time to test the excellent work of the "albain team bitstream".

I am very encouraged by how easy it was to setup albain's test ffdshow build - easier than my first Xonar setup/install by far...

I suspect my issues my be due my use of the arssoft demuxer (splitter)...I think the empty media types are my issue (sub-types)? Of course, I'll try testing with the built-in MPC splitter and see. Can that filter be setup via the "external filters" control in MPC? I prefer configuring MPC there...

[rica]

This is what i have :)

Ati 5770,

Vista 32 SP2,
Seven 64

[rica]

"
Can that filter be setup via the "external filters" control in MPC? I prefer configuring MPC there...

Sure, you may disable all of the internal filters by unticking the boxes and add your preferred filter(s) under external filters and select as preferred.
You may find standalone MPC filters as well; just download "standalonefilters" folder and register what you want and dominate on them as externally.

[73ChargerFan]

rica - In your image showing ffdshow audio setup, I see "Output format for uncompressed or decoded streams" set to 16 bit integer. Would this affect 24bit TrueHD? or 24bit LPCM?

[rica]

rica - In your image showing ffdshow audio setup, I see "Output format for uncompressed or decoded streams" set to 16 bit integer. Would this affect 24bit TrueHD? or 24bit LPCM?

Haven't checked yet if it downsamples THD but i'm sure LPCM wouldn't bitstream but would be decoded for now.

[whurlston]

rica, this would explain why I haven't been able to reproduce your results. Which MPCAudioRenderer.ax build are you using? I've tried the ones from the latest several SVN builds and non of them show up as a renderer filter in GraphStudio. They all appear as a standard DirectShow filter and they all crash on me when I try to use them for bitstreaming. I installed MPC-HC and the MPC renderer does not show up in the output devices.

[rica]

This one:

http://www.mediafire.com/?hhthlymym20

[rica]

And make sure proppage.dll is registered in your system?

(coming with the latest Windows SDK)

EDIT: Sorry, i'm sure you know this very well but this might be useful for some of our friends. :o

[nightfly]

Yes, the splitter was the issue.

I dl'ed the MPC standalone filters and registered the mpegsplitter.ax (was that the correct one?) and then selected it in MPC as preferred and I got consistent THD playback.

Although like before, sometime THD comes to my receiver as DD+? Even in this case...just tried to play Dark Knight and my receiver is showing DD+.

More testing...

[whurlston]

And make sure proppage.dll is registered in your system?

(coming with the latest Windows SDK)

EDIT: Sorry, i'm sure you know this very well but this might be useful for some of our friends. :o

It doesn't hurt to double check. Strangely, I still can't reproduce your results using GraphStudio with build 53 and your MPC renderer. I'm going to try MPC (although it shouldn't make a difference) as well as all builds from 46 to current.

[whurlston]

Finally!!! I can confirm rica's results with TrueHD and DTS-HD working on Vista with the MPC audio renderer with 95% certainty. I was able to get near perfect bitstreamed audio on both formats. I say "near perfect" because there were still some glitches in DTS-HD. I had to increase the process priority to "high" and set processor affinity to a single core instead of my 4 cores on a Phenom x4 9550. I suspect I need to update my system drivers, possibly my AHCI controller.

@albain, sorry for the confusion and delay. :o

Builds 46 onward work except for the 2 test build 55. Like rica, they did not produce audio for me.

[nightfly]

I ended up testing about 50 movies - a selection of DTS-MA, DD, THD, & LPCM.

Using the MPC MPEG Splitter (build 1417), Beta 54 of ffdshow, TMT3's version of Arcsoft Audio renderer, & MPC-HC build 1299 I mostly got perfect bitstreaming with the exception of about 6 TrueHD titles.

With THD, I often had to restart MPC in order to play the THD title back ok. I have the "remember file position" option enabled in MPC and that causes issues with THD playback for a number of titles. If I have get no audio (most common issue) or choppy audio (rare issue) I "stop" mpc to reset it's starting point to 0, then restart MPC. I could always then playback the THD title - often with the ability to fwd/rew w/o issue. This would even happen for titles I thought were previously working fine - I'd go back to test some change and I would get no audio. Stop/Restart - all is well again.

For LPCM I of course have to set the Win 7 pb devices to "asus speakers" from "asus s/pdif" and everything works fine. ffdshow must be set to "xonar media type only" option to bitstream dd/dts as albain has stated previously.

I can't get good video playback (only line at top of screen) for mpc builds > 1299-ish (Nvidia gt 220) and also seamless playback of BD titles seems to be broken as well.

But with build 1299 of MPC-HC and ffdshow build 54, I am a pretty happy camper. :D

[madshi]

I have committed the MPC renderer so now it is working and usable.
One question about the audio renderer:

How does the clock work? You know, the audio renderer is usually the one providing the graph's clock and it's important that the clock works "correctly". Basically your clock should depend on the audio hardware and *not* on the system clock. It is possible (even probable) that the audio renderer's clock deviates slightly from the system clock, because the audio hardware's internal clock is usually never perfectly in sync with the system clock. So does your audio renderer use the system clock or the audio hardware clock?

[goemonate]

Tried all different combination of ffdshow, MPC-HC, audio rederner... They all give me the same result:

TrueHD 16bit = bitstream fine
TrueHD 24bit = bitstream fine but noise at background
DTS-MA = impossible, sometimes the AVR shows DTS-MA but it goes away in 2 seconds or so

my Setup:
ATI 5750 (tried two diff brands)
Pioneer SC-05
Phenom x4 9550
Windows 7 32bit

More info:
Tried also on 3 different computers, they all give the same result. So could it be the AVR that I have (SC-05)?

[tetsuo55]

Hey Guys,

which driver are you guys currently using?
And does that driver support 24bit wasapi exclusive for all frequencies?

[arestarh]

albain
First of all: thank you for your work under HD audio bitstream in ffdshow!

My question about translation of new HD audio bitstream settings in Output section of audiodecoder settings. In translation mode['translateMode'=1] some new strings I translated, but some I can't translate(I ticked them but they didn't appear in:
http://s54.radikal.ru/i143/0912/f7/55119dd02ef8.png (http://www.radikal.ru)
).

This untranslatable strings are:
http://i018.radikal.ru/0912/17/8bcc5d350951.png (http://www.radikal.ru)

and Caution after I check 'Try only standard format' or 'Only Xonar formats':
http://i079.radikal.ru/0912/8e/98c83246eb4c.png (http://www.radikal.ru)
Sorry for my bad English.

[nlnl]

Ok thanks

We'll stick on that for Vista, at least for now


I have committed the MPC renderer so now it is working and usable.
MPC team can make the ui part and bring improvements

Does MPC renderer support WASAPI Exclusive mode?

[albain]

About MPC renderer, it is wasapi exclusive.

At the end it will support both directsound and wasapi (I forced the wasapi mode)

About translations, I will check after that

[nlnl]

About MPC renderer, it is wasapi exclusive.

At the end it will support both directsound and wasapi (I forced the wasapi mode)

About translations, I will check after that

Great! Thank you!
Where can we download it?

[mikelebron]

What container were you using?

I ended up testing about 50 movies - a selection of DTS-MA, DD, THD, & LPCM.

Using the MPC MPEG Splitter (build 1417), Beta 54 of ffdshow, TMT3's version of Arcsoft Audio renderer, & MPC-HC build 1299 I mostly got perfect bitstreaming with the exception of about 6 TrueHD titles.

With THD, I often had to restart MPC in order to play the THD title back ok. I have the "remember file position" option enabled in MPC and that causes issues with THD playback for a number of titles. If I have get no audio (most common issue) or choppy audio (rare issue) I "stop" mpc to reset it's starting point to 0, then restart MPC. I could always then playback the THD title - often with the ability to fwd/rew w/o issue. This would even happen for titles I thought were previously working fine - I'd go back to test some change and I would get no audio. Stop/Restart - all is well again.

For LPCM I of course have to set the Win 7 pb devices to "asus speakers" from "asus s/pdif" and everything works fine. ffdshow must be set to "xonar media type only" option to bitstream dd/dts as albain has stated previously.

I can't get good video playback (only line at top of screen) for mpc builds > 1299-ish (Nvidia gt 220) and also seamless playback of BD titles seems to be broken as well.

But with build 1299 of MPC-HC and ffdshow build 54, I am a pretty happy camper. :D

[nightfly]

What container were you using?

M2TS - I play ripped ISOs (typically via Clown BD) or some M2TS files directly.

I have over 250 titles - need to track down some of the more uncommon HD audio (24bit, DTS-HD HR, etc.) and see how my setup works there.

[mikelebron]

I would love to see how MKVs work.

M2TS - I play ripped ISOs (typically via Clown BD) or some M2TS files directly.

I have over 250 titles - need to track down some of the more uncommon HD audio (24bit, DTS-HD HR, etc.) and see how my setup works there.

[Skinleech]

I would love to see how MKVs work.

All of mine to date are mkv, and they work fine with the internal splitter. Both DTS-HD and THD - this is with a Xonar slim btw.

I've played m2ts with the same success also.

[whurlston]

ATI 5xxx users: ATI is supposed to be releasing a 9.12 hotfix later this week which fixes EDID issues with certain receivers. Hopefully, it will also enable DD+ support in the driver.

[tetsuo55]

ATI 5xxx users: ATI is supposed to be releasing a 9.12 hotfix later this week which fixes EDID issues with certain receivers. Hopefully, it will also enable DD+ support in the driver.i just checked out the specifications. Officially it only supports truehd and dts-hd.

It also supports AAC and some cards support WMA-pro it would be cool to be able to bitstream these too.

[tetsuo55]

So i update the realtek driver for my 4770, and suddonly its telling me this:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/9273/4770.th.png (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/4770.png/)

So i update mpc-hc and ffdshow and all the formats try to bitstream but im getting static for all of them.
Now what?

[whurlston]

Very interesting. Downloading it now.

[rica]

So i update the realtek driver for my 4770, and suddonly its telling me this:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/9273/4770.th.png (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/4770.png/)

So i update mpc-hc and ffdshow and all the formats try to bitstream but im getting static for all of them.
Now what?

You would never get hd bitstreaming with Realtek drivers.

Uninstall them and just give it a go with Ati HDMI drivers coming with 9.11 :)

[whurlston]

You would never get hd bitstreaming with Realtek drivers.

Uninstall them and just give it a go with Ati HDMI drivers coming with 9.11 :)

He's using a 4770.

[rica]

He's using a 4770.

Sorry i read 5770 :) But what do you guys expect to be happenning with a 4770; bitstreaming?

[tetsuo55]

Sorry i read 5770 :) But what do you guys expect to be happenning with a 4770; bitstreaming?There is no reason why it should not work, once the driver allows it (which it does according to my screenshot)

the question now is, what am i doing wrong :D

[whurlston]

You're not doing anything wrong. I'm getting static as well. And I can confirm that the latest Realtek driver shows all those formats as supported.

[rica]

Don't forget Ati HDMI driver was showing all of them (for 5*** series) but i needed EDID Override driver by tulli.
Even it shows dd+ , we never get that.

So unless Ati gives a true driver you will never get HD bitstreaming over 4*** series at all.

[whurlston]

Don't forget Ati HDMI driver was showing all of them (for 5*** series) but i needed EDID Override driver by tulli.
Even it shows dd+ but we never get that.

So unless Ati gives a true driver you will never get HD bitstreaming at all.

Actually, the ATI driver for the 5xxx series does not show DD+ as a supported format, only Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD. At least on mine this is true.

[rica]

Actually, the ATI driver for the 5xxx series does not show DD+ as a supported format, only Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD. At least on mine this is true.

Checked again: Yeah, you're right. Don't see DD+ either.

[SamuriHL]

Fascinating. I'll have to mess with this realtek driver tomorrow. Has anyone tried it with ffdshow on a 5xxx card yet? I don't have time to test tonight.

[whurlston]

I haven't yet. I only have Vista on the machine with the 5770 right now.

[SamuriHL]

I'll work on it tomorrow.

[rica]

It works for THD and DTSHD on both PDVD9 and ffdshow 54.
Further trials will be tomorrow. (DD+, LPCM ?)

Working Renderers with ffdshow:

Default Directsound Device,
Default Waveout Device,
MPC Audio Renderer,
Realtek HDMI Output.

Seven 64 for now.

[SamuriHL]

Damn that's awesome. Do you have a 24 bit LPCM track to play in PDVD9? Curious if it shows 24 bit in output or 32. Ratatouille is 48/24 and shows 48/32 for me with the ATI driver.

[rica]

Tomorrow will check it's lpcm and DD+ performance..
Sorry but it's five AM here.

[SamuriHL]

I'll check it in the morning.

[whurlston]

There is no reason why it should not work, once the driver allows it (which it does according to my screenshot)

the question now is, what am i doing wrong :D

I tested WinDVD 2010 bitstreaming with the 4670/R2.39 and it results in the same static. Not exactly sure what the issue is, possibly because the audio device reports "HDCP: Not Supported"?

[Andy o]

I didn't get static though, just silence with WinDVD. Regardless, if it works, this driver might be a better choice for the 5000 cards.

[whurlston]

I didn't get static though, just silence with WinDVD. Regardless, if it works, this driver might be a better choice for the 5000 cards.

It could be the difference in AVRs. Yours may detect the static and mute it. Rica has reported it working with the 5xxx series on Win 7.

[Andy o]

Well my problem with the ATI drivers with the 5750 I got was that it doesn't have continuous audio, and no DD+. I wonder if with the 5000 series MC can bitstream DD+. Will check tomorrow anyway. One other thing is that I can't find anywhere official where it says that ATSC is being broadcast with DD+ (only that it was incorporated into ATSC, but not if it's actually being used), it might just be some mistake in MC's info display.

[whurlston]

If you have another way to capture the stream of that channel in TS format (like TS reader if it supports your tuner or if you have an HDHomeRun), you can use MPC to determine if the stream is in fact DD+. If not, PM me your zip code and the channel (so I don't derail this thread) and I'll try to find someone in your area to capture the stream for me.

[Andy o]

PM'ed

[SamuriHL]

Well my problem with the ATI drivers with the 5750 I got was that it doesn't have continuous audio, and no DD+. I wonder if with the 5000 series MC can bitstream DD+. Will check tomorrow anyway. One other thing is that I can't find anywhere official where it says that ATSC is being broadcast with DD+ (only that it was incorporated into ATSC, but not if it's actually being used), it might just be some mistake in MC's info display.

It's a bug in the display for MC and MP. ATSC is using DD, not DD+....yet.

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/08/18/windows-7-includes-support-for-dolby-digital-plus/

when they added support, they screwed up and treat all DD as DD+.

[Andy o]

I see, saves me some trouble, thanks. Are you just up, or are you going to bed now?