ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion [Archive] - Page 17

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 03:09

Hello, i just got a 5750 and im trying to do the setup in the opening post for HD audio. Could someone give me links where to get MPC audio renderer and a site where to get the latest MPC-HC?

Thanks

You don't need to install the MPC audio renderer separately anymore. You can get the latest builds of MPC-HC here (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64/).

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 03:15

And room correction doesn't get affected? Well, that's kinda nice. I guess I'll have to crank it up then. That way I, too, can run head first into your issue. Hey, wait a minute!! :D

Yeah, that's not the only advantage regarding this. Even when it cannot take in the format (multichannel 192 and 176.4 kHz for instance), the Pio will downsample to 96 or 88.2 (respectively) and then apply MCACC. If you want it to behave the same as with the 606, you can always use Pure Direct which will turn off all processing and I think will not downsample 192 and 176.4 before DAC.

Or even you might have gotten lucky and one of the improvements of the 21 over the 01 is 192 kHz multichannel DSP capabilities.

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 03:18

Yeah, that's not the only advantage regarding this. Even when it cannot take in the format (multichannel 192 and 176.4 kHz for instance), the Pio will downsample to 96 or 88.2 (respectively) and then apply MCACC. If you want it to behave the same as with the 606, you can always use Pure Direct which will turn off all processing and I think will not downsample 192 and 176.4 before DAC.

Or even you might have gotten lucky and one of the improvements of the 21 over the 01 is 192 kHz multichannel DSP capabilities.

I'll have to do some testing on that later and find out. The Pio is so much better than the 606. Just wish I didn't have the DTS-HD MA issue with ffdshow.

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 06:36

BTW, I just tested the 5770 with 9.11 and Realtek 2.35 drivers. Two things. The pops are still there, and my issue of the mixer at higher-than-48 kHz is still there also. The second issue might be the mobo, but if anyone else is experiencing something like that, please let us know. This is the description I posted at AVS:

What I'm getting right now with the Realtek 2.39 driver is if I set it at 7.1 24/96 eventually my audio gets mangled into noise. With 5.1 24/96, the audio switches speakers. It's crazy. Same thing happens with the ATI driver in 9.12 hotfix. It hasn't happened in exclusive mode but I haven't tested it thoroughly, first the simplest configurations (Windows mixer in the chain). Obligatory Windows 7 reinstall didn't fix anything.

Sebastiii

3rd January 2010, 09:28

Hi,

I have found a soft to see dropout, i think it useful to test quickly.
No need to install, just execute it and see when the red bar comes = dropouts.

The url : DPC Latency Checker (http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml)

So i have try the method that in website and no change, i think it was related to ATI drivers.

I hope that you can test and report it to AMD like says tetsuo55 :
AMD Graphics Technical Support Team (http://support.amd.com/us/contacts/Pages/GraphicsTechnicalSupport.aspx?LID=usenterpriseleftnav)

I open a ticket and i wait the answer.
Thx,
Seb.

Sebastiii

3rd January 2010, 09:32

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 10:06

Thanks Sebastiii, I responded at AVS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17838067#post17838067), where I think it's more relevant.

Sebastiii

3rd January 2010, 10:07

Other test :
I have tested in my current PC not my HTPC, i have also i7 920 on it.
I have Nvidia card 9600GT on it and with it, no dropout, i'm on Win7 x64 and not Win7 x86 like my HTPC but 0 pop 0 dropout, so maybe it's not related to win7.

It's time to test my Nvidia Card on my HTPC to see what happen but no Bitstreaming with it lol.
Seb.

Sebastiii

3rd January 2010, 10:41

Thanks Sebastiii, I responded at AVS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17838067#post17838067), where I think it's more relevant.

Thx for tip :)

So the same issue has you ! very strange too lol.

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 10:52

Thanks again! And for the link to the app too.

blackEyEz

3rd January 2010, 11:15

You don't need to install the MPC audio renderer separately anymore. You can get the latest builds of MPC-HC here (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64/).

Thank you, but i do need some more help. The situation is that i have my present HTPC with mediaportal. To preserve DXVA with subtitles its installed with haali splitter, FFDshow and AC3filter.

I heard from others that its not possible yet to stream HD audio within mediaportal. What options do i have while keeping my present setup?

Sebastiii

3rd January 2010, 11:35

Hi blackEyEz,

I have mediaportal too and i didn't success to bitstream with it and Haali.

And when i use subtitle dxva goes of if i use a video renderer that normaly use it.

Maybe i got something wrong.

Me too, i would like to use DVXA with sub and keep OSD of mediaportal but i must to do more test to setup it correctly.

And HS :
And an option that for me is in priority is about sub, i use for now vsfilter and i can change the timing synchro quickly when sub is with delay etc, i make alt-tab to the setting in vsfilter (Directvobsub) and i remake alt-tab to return to mediaportal.

If i use MPC subtitle i didn't find this option to synchronise timing and i didn't try the version inside of ffdshow too.
Sorry for HS lol

Thx,
Seb.

I hope that i wrote is something clear lol :)

DeepBeepMeep

3rd January 2010, 15:07

Ffdshow HD audio sounds great!

Any change this could work with Windows XP and Xonar? I don't feel in a rush to upgrate to windows 7. Thanks.

G_M_C

3rd January 2010, 16:53

Hi all, have you been able to adress the problem with the periodically occurring audio dropouts (every 5 secs or so) ?

Sorry posted the question in the wrong thread before

albain

3rd January 2010, 17:27

Hi all, have you been able to adress the problem with the periodically occurring audio dropouts (every 5 secs or so) ?

Sorry posted the question in the wrong thread before

No, please open a ticket to AMD support to put the pressure on them

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1359262#post1359262

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 18:01

albain, do you have any further idea as to what's at fault here? I tested with my 5770, 9.11 and Realtek 2.35 driver, even after a driver cleaning, and the dropouts we're experiencing are still there. Also happens with decoded DD (and I presume DTS) sent as LPCM.

Someone else mentioned it also happened with a 4000 series card. Is it only one person? Cause if somehow their problem is not the same, then we can isolate this better.

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 18:23

Hi all, have you been able to adress the problem with the periodically occurring audio dropouts (every 5 secs or so) ?

Sorry posted the question in the wrong thread before

What's your exact hardware/software/drivers? In particular we need to know if the ones reporting other than the 5000 series are having the same trouble. In your case, I don't know cause our problem is only with DD and DTS (legacy codecs) in videos with DXVA disabled. Video format doesn't seem to matter. The dropouts aren't at a constant interval (like the 5 seconds or so you state), but are pretty much random from what I can tell.

piit

3rd January 2010, 19:23

Re the dropouts - it's really strange, I've been suffering from these ever since I replaced the ATI 4350 with 5750. As I said before, they were even occurring with regular PCM sound, e.g. in a flash video played from the web on full screen.

In MPC-HC or DVBViewer, I used have less or nearly no dropouts when using VMR9 instead of EVR.

However, the dropouts have recently disappeared... We've watched quite a few episodes of Sopranos with DTS soundtrack in last few days using software decoding (ffdshow) and there have been no dropouts... It's really strange, I have not made any changes to the system AFAIK, I'm using what everybody is - Catalyst 9.12 hotfix, Realtek 2.39.

I am really at a loss what's going on here.

albain

3rd January 2010, 19:25

What's your exact hardware/software/drivers? In particular we need to know if the ones reporting other than the 5000 series are having the same trouble. In your case, I don't know cause our problem is only with DD and DTS (legacy codecs) in videos with DXVA disabled. Video format doesn't seem to matter. The dropouts aren't at a constant interval (like the 5 seconds or so you state), but are pretty much random from what I can tell.

It is more likely a video driver issue : the dropouts are worse in RGB output than in YUY2 for example.

The fact that DXVA mode solves the problem tends to prove a wrong implementation on the video part.

It also seems to affect decoded formats (PCM) too but I didn't try myself.

Also likz Piit at first I had no dropouts (on AC3, TrueHD bitstream...) as long as I used the ATI HDMI renderer instead of directsound,waveout... and then boom

On my side I tried several configs (with driver cleaner and many reboots) : 9.10, 9.11, 9.12, 9.12 patched, 9.12 patched + realtek 2.39
Running W7 x64 and each time I tried WMP12, MPCHC (w/ EVR) with FFDShow
Also tried VLC, MPC internal audio codecs.

Always outputting to HDMI : AC3 from MKV

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 19:30

I have to ask the stupid questions that I'm infamous for. And I don't know the answer to this question on my machine which is why I'm asking. Any Windows Updates that have been pushed out that could have anything to do with this?

Wireballz

3rd January 2010, 21:10

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 21:17

albain, that's the same issue I've been reporting since I got my Pio Elite. Andy has the same issue with his Pio, as well. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

frogman

3rd January 2010, 22:01

Hi, don't know if this will help you guy's out but there is a new patch out by Cyberlink PowerDVD:

Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra v9.0.2320 [Hotfix Update]

Changelog for v9.0.2320 Ultra / 2009-12-31
Updates:
- Adds support for ATI Radeon HD 5000 series graphics cards.
* CyberLink PowerDVD is now optimized for ATI Radeon HD 5000 series graphics cards.
* Includes DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD with lossless output, for extra high quality Blu-ray playback via High-resolution Audio with HDMI HD-Audio pass-through.
- Now supports TrueTheater HD with CUDA on NVIDIA ION platforms.

Issues resolved:
- Noise during LPCM DVD playback.

Download:
http://update.cyberlink.com/ftpdload/patch/powerdvd/9/U/CyberLink.2320(TaRe45)(a)_DVD091223-02.exe

Andy o

3rd January 2010, 22:08

It is more likely a video driver issue : the dropouts are worse in RGB output than in YUY2 for example.

The fact that DXVA mode solves the problem tends to prove a wrong implementation on the video part.

It also seems to affect decoded formats (PCM) too but I didn't try myself.

Also likz Piit at first I had no dropouts (on AC3, TrueHD bitstream...) as long as I used the ATI HDMI renderer instead of directsound,waveout... and then boom

On my side I tried several configs (with driver cleaner and many reboots) : 9.10, 9.11, 9.12, 9.12 patched, 9.12 patched + realtek 2.39
Running W7 x64 and each time I tried WMP12, MPCHC (w/ EVR) with FFDShow
Also tried VLC, MPC internal audio codecs.

Always outputting to HDMI : AC3 from MKV

FWIW, it also happened to me playing a DVD with WinDVD 2010. When I enabled some video processing options (disables HW accel), the DD and DTS-ES audio started with the drop outs.

I am almost 100% sure that this didn't happen with the 4670 though. I'm gonna try with a 4550 I have on my other PC.

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 22:12

FWIW, it also happened to me playing a DVD with WinDVD 2010. When I enabled some video processing options (disables HW accel), the DD and DTS-ES audio started with the drop outs.

I am almost 100% sure that this didn't happen with the 4670 though. I'm gonna try with a 4550 I have on my other PC.

I can test on my 4850 later, as well. But it's definitely happening on my 5870 with HA turned off.

albain

3rd January 2010, 23:08

I have a problem with my VSX-1019AH-k no DTS-HD ma just flashes to PCM/DTS-HD and no audio.

look at this thread http://85.230.118.136/showpost.php?p...&postcount=682

those movies are not 192000hz should be 48000hz at most 96000hz.

Truehd are 48000hz and work with pioneers but Dts-hd ma is always 192000hz in ffshow and should be 48000hz or 96000hz strange.

Like it is out of range or something Onkyo's and Denon's don't have issues. But Pioneers just don't like it.

I also have a Xonar Slim same results as my ati 5750 so it is is not a ati driver problem if i am using Xonar.

FDDSHOW SYS TRAY DISPLAYS:
Input: 48000 Hz, 6 channels, 5445 kpbs Dolby True HD (bitstream)
Output: HDMI bitstream (1402)

FDDSHOW SYS TRAY DISPLAYS:
Input: 192000 Hz, 8 channels, 377 kpbs DTS HD (bitstream)
Output: HDMI bitstream (1403)

Thanks, Wire

And Albain is GOD, you rock :)

Okay, I understand your issue guys but beware that the sample rate and the number of channels is not what it means for bitstream formats.
The sample rate you're talking about is the encoded sample rate, whereas the one that is sent and displayed within FFDShow is the IEC sample rate.
Same thing for the number of channels : this is the number of IEC lines.

I took my inspiration from MS website :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd316761%28VS.85%29.aspx

For TrueHD, this is always 192000 and 8 channels (=4 IEC 60958 Lines) whatever the number of channels there is. At last this is what I believed. But I received a PM about TrueHD 2.0 and this make sense that the number of IEC lines is lower in that case but this is hard to figure out the right combination.

For DTSHD I used 8 channels, but maybe this number should vary according to the number of encoded channels.

I don't remember if we could use the dumper with powerdvd : not for the buffers but at least for the media structures which is what I need to fix this (if the problem comes from the software)

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:12

Okay, I understand your issue guys but beware that the sample rate and the number of channels is not what it means for bitstream formats.
The sample rate you're talking about is the encoded sample rate, whereas the one that is sent and displayed within FFDShow is the IEC sample rate.
Same thing for the number of channels : this is the number of IEC lines.

I took my inspiration from MS website :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd316761%28VS.85%29.aspx

For TrueHD, this is always 192000 and 8 channels (=4 IEC 60958 Lines) whatever the number of channels there is. At last this is what I believed. But I received a PM about TrueHD 2.0 and this make sense that the number of IEC lines is lower in that case but this is hard to figure out the right combination.

For DTSHD I used 8 channels, but maybe this number should vary according to the number of encoded channels.

I don't remember if we could use the dumper with powerdvd : not for the buffers but at least for the media structures which is what I need to fix this (if the problem comes from the software)

I understand what you're saying. I don't have a machine that can properly dump unfortunately. For that, 32 bit is needed. I wish I had the ability to dump it so we could fix this problem. Clearly PDVD9 and WinDVD 2010 are doing something different as they are getting it to work fine with the same combination of software (drivers, OS, etc) and hardware that isn't working in ffdshow.

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:15

Any way you can make us a quick test version that varies DTS-HD MA based on the encoded channels? Most of mine are 5.1. I do have some 7.1 tracks kicking around and those don't work, either. The flashing between PCM and DTS-HD MA is just odd.

Wireballz

3rd January 2010, 23:24

Okay, I understand your issue guys but beware that the sample rate and the number of channels is not what it means for bitstream formats.
The sample rate you're talking about is the encoded sample rate, whereas the one that is sent and displayed within FFDShow is the IEC sample rate.
Same thing for the number of channels : this is the number of IEC lines.

I took my inspiration from MS website :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd316761%28VS.85%29.aspx

For TrueHD, this is always 192000 and 8 channels (=4 IEC 60958 Lines) whatever the number of channels there is. At last this is what I believed. But I received a PM about TrueHD 2.0 and this make sense that the number of IEC lines is lower in that case but this is hard to figure out the right combination.

For DTSHD I used 8 channels, but maybe this number should vary according to the number of encoded channels.

I don't remember if we could use the dumper with powerdvd : not for the buffers but at least for the media structures which is what I need to fix this (if the problem comes from the software)

I will help if I can what do we need to do. I have tons of computers by trade and can tinker but by no means am I a programmer. :)

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:25

I will help if I can what do we need to do. I have tons of computers by trade and can tinker but by no means am I a programmer. :)

What's needed is a machine with a 32 bit OS that's connected to your Pio so the DTS-HD MA that works can be dumped by albain's util and can be compared to what ffdshow is sending.

Wireballz

3rd January 2010, 23:27

What's needed is a machine with a 32 bit OS that's connected to your Pio so the DTS-HD MA that works can be dumped by albain's util and can be compared to what ffdshow is sending.

Can tell me which software/dumper stuff I need to start :)

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:29

I don't have his latest tool as I can't ever make it work for my environment. PM albain and I'm sure he can set you up. You'll need PDVD9, a 32 bit OS, his dump tool, and a nice DTS-HD MA disc that doesn't work in ffdshow on our Pio's (um, any of them :D) that does work in PDVD9.

rica

3rd January 2010, 23:38

Guys, your issue is not related with your Pios.

It's related with SW mode video decoders.

Pls check you can never switch your video decoders to SW mode in PDVD or WinDVD; so you get unproblematic bitstream decoding with your receivers whenever use one of those players.

This is really an Ati driver issue and Realtek has nothing to do as well. :)

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:39

rica, completely and totally different issue than what you're talking about. :)

rica

3rd January 2010, 23:42

rica, completely and totally different issue than what you're talking about. :)

Maybe i haven't checked one or two pages :p

Or?

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:45

Maybe i haven't checked one or two pages :p

Or?

In my case, *JUST* switching out my Onkyo 606 for a Pioneer Elite vsx-21txh caused me to lose DTS-HD MA bitstreaming. Now we have 2 other Pio users seeing the same issue. This is completely unrelated to the video issue. (That's annoying, too, but, one problem at a time...and we know how to 'fix' that issue by using DXVA ;)) NOTHING we do fixes this DTS-HD MA issue. And again, the ONLY change I made to my setup was swapping the 606 for the Pio.

rica

3rd January 2010, 23:49

Sorry for asking but do you get DTSHD-MA without any problem on your Pios using winDVD or pDVD?

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:50

Yes, we all do. Works fine in WinDVD 2010 and PDVD9. No problem at all. Just with ffdshow the receiver switches between PCM and DTS-HD MA constantly and no audio.

rica

3rd January 2010, 23:53

Yes, we all do. Works fine in WinDVD 2010 and PDVD9. No problem at all. Just with ffdshow the receiver switches between PCM and DTS-HD MA constantly and no audio.

Open any BD or ISO on any working program and go to the settings while it's working.
Select video and check whether it's ticked to DXVA or not?
If you are able to untick the DXVA box just do it and restart the same applcation again :rolleyes:

SamuriHL

3rd January 2010, 23:54

I know PDVD9 won't allow you to use non-HA mode. Not sure about WinDVD2010. But, it doesn't matter anyway, as I know I'm using DXVA mode in MPC-HC and still have this issue.

Wireballz

3rd January 2010, 23:58

Sent pm :) now we wait

rica

4th January 2010, 00:01

I know PDVD9 won't allow you to use non-HA mode. Not sure about WinDVD2010. But, it doesn't matter anyway, as I know I'm using DXVA mode in MPC-HC and still have this issue.

AFAI remember you told this:

Yes, we all do. Works fine in WinDVD 2010 and PDVD9. No problem at all. Just with ffdshow the receiver switches between PCM and DTS-HD MA constantly and no audio.

This is a different issue.

You have to know both wDVD and pDVD use DXVA and you should't meet any issues (and you will never be able to switch them into SW mode.) but with ffdshow in DXVA mode, i never live any issues.

SamuriHL

4th January 2010, 00:04

You have to know both wDVD and pDVD use DXVA and you should't meet any issues (and you will never switch them to SW mode.) but with ffdshow in DXVA mode, i never live any issues.

I think you really missed my point when I said that nothing in my setup changed at all from when it was working with my Onkyo 606 to it NOT working now with the Pio. Literally, it was working with my Onkyo 606, I went out, got the Pio, hooked it up in place of the 606, and now I get this issue. And again, I'm using DXVA in MPC-HC, so, according to what you just said, it should be working fine....and it's not. For ANY of us Pio owners. This issue is *NOT* related to the DXVA stuff.

rica

4th January 2010, 00:11

Don't know if it makes any difference but let me ask:
Is ffdshow under external filters or selected internally?

SamuriHL

4th January 2010, 00:12

@albain:

Maybe I don't understand how to read this remote graph stuff properly, but, I attached to PDVD9's graph while it's bitstreaming a track I'm having issues with. MEDITATYPE_Audio, FORMAT_WaveFormatEX....WaveFormatEX:

wFormatTag: 49156
nChannels: 2
nSamplesPerSec: 48000
nAvgBytesPerSec: 192000
nBlockAlign: 4
wBitsPerSample: 16
cbSize: 0

This is WAY different than what I see with ffdshow/mpc-hc.

EDIT: Sorry, idiot me forgot to mention some pertinent info here. This is a 7.1 DTS-HD MA track.

SamuriHL

4th January 2010, 00:13

Don't know if it makes any difference but let me ask:
Is ffdshow under external filters or selected internally?

External, merit preferred. Same setup I've always used when I was doing the 606. That worked flawlessly for every DTS-HD MA track I threw at it, including the one I'm currently testing. With the Pio, it doesn't play nice. TrueHD works flawlessly, however.

rica

4th January 2010, 00:16

External, merit preferred. Same setup I've always used when I was doing the 606. That worked flawlessly for every DTS-HD MA track I threw at it, including the one I'm currently testing. With the Pio, it doesn't play nice. TrueHD works flawlessly, however.

1)with or without tulli's override?
2)what version of ffdshow?

SamuriHL

4th January 2010, 00:19

1)with or without tulli's override?
2)what version of ffdshow?

No override. Not needed since I can bitstream eveything with PDVD9. I've tried with an override, however, and it didn't change anything. Using 3171 ffdshow tryout. I think, however, we're on to what's going on here. I'm wondering if some receivers are more forgiving than others when it comes to what's sent to them. But, if you look at what I posted for albain, it's showing that PDVD9 is sending it as 2 channel. Albain's sending it as 8. This is very possibly the issue.

Wireballz

4th January 2010, 00:24

No override. Not needed since I can bitstream eveything with PDVD9. I've tried with an override, however, and it didn't change anything. Using 3171 ffdshow tryout. I think, however, we're on to what's going on here. I'm wondering if some receivers are more forgiving than others when it comes to what's sent to them. But, if you look at what I posted for albain, it's showing that PDVD9 is sending it as 2 channel. Albain's sending it as 8. This is very possibly the issue.

Pioneers might not be able to lockon like others good Find :)

SamuriHL

4th January 2010, 00:26

Pioneers might not be able to lockon like others good Find :)

We'll see what albain has to say. I'm going to run some other DTS-HD MA tracks through PDVD9 and capture the graph while it's playing to take a peak at what they're doing. Going for a 5.1 track next to see if the number of channels ends up being different. This is the problem we had with TrueHD where some worked and others didn't. Once albain fixed the number of channels it worked for all. We could be hitting a similar type of issue here. Maybe. :)