ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[SamuriHL]

Sorry, Seb, I was replying to piit with his denon. I don't know what's going on with you and albain's issue with the dropouts. I'm not getting those at all with my 5870 and my Pio. Just can't get DTS-HD MA to work anymore.

[albain]

Hi again,

the problem is not related to the audio part but to the video part : I have the same dropouts with the onboard SPDIF

SO either a video driver problem or a default in the 57xx series

[SamuriHL]

If you make an audio only graph in graphstudio do you get dropouts?

[piit]

You need an edid override for your denon. Search for "Tulli edid override" on avsforum.

I know, that's not the problem. All other soundtracks on the Blu-rays in my collection - TrueHD 5.1, dts-HD MA,
dts-HD HR - bitstream without any problems, it's just this one - TrueHD 2.0... The receiver doesn't detect any
change, it stays in whatever mode it was before.

Would you mind downloading the sample I posted on my server and testing it? It's just 100MB.

Cheers Pete

[SamuriHL]

Grabbing it now. I'll check it out as soon as it's finished.

[SamuriHL]

Yup, no audio. Doesn't even try to play it. Video's fine. ffdshow is showing TrueHD on the tray icon. Neat. I'm going to convert it to a BD ISO and see if WinDVD or PDVD9 wants to play nice with it.

EDIT: Yea, it plays as an ISO in PDVD9.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

I have audio on sample but sound cut etc. and the video is cut too in software mode, in hardware mode it's ok.

So i've RESET EDID to standard -> Always Drop Out.
I have put first beta drivers 8.663.1_Beta4_Hemlock_VistaWin7_Nov6-> Always Drop Out.

It's strange because before i don't think that i have dropout or not as strong.

Seb.

[albain]

Me too, yesterday I watched a movie with no dropouts.

I uninstalled ATI drivers and now I still have dropouts but not anymore with the SPDIF output of my motherboard

I fear a malfunction on my card

[SamuriHL]

That seriously sucks!! The way they've been pushing them out it wouldn't overly surprise me to find that some of them are defective. I know Andy had his replaced. This would be why I got an XFX...lifetime warranty.

[Sebastiii]

Maybe but with hardware it's OK :) so maybe somethink interract in OS.

I have Kaspersky in NAV that i don't have before.
Yes, when my AVR goes to SAV, i reformat my system (because virii) so i have made clean setup and with NAV so when i receive my AVR dropout comes.

So something wrong in my OS.

I'll try on Vista to see what happen, i'm on 32bit.
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, maybe I can help here. The audio dropouts are *DEFINITELY* video related guys. I changed from EVR to VMR9 and guess what? I now have your beloved audio dropouts. So, um, yea....it's not the audio that's causing this problem.

[joikd]

FWIW, my 5750 seems to be working with no issues. I do have to use two MPC-HC .exe's with their own .ini files, though--one for Blu-rays (MPC Audio Renderer) & one for SD DVD's (Realtek HDMI). This is with W7 32bit & Denon 1610 (w/Tulli's Denon EDID override). The MPC Audio Renderer would not work on my SD DVD (AC3)--major drop outs. Same thing happened trying to use Realtek HDMI for Blu-rays.

Edit: By the way, I sometimes have sound issues which are only fixed by reboots--especially after messing with settings (even when returned to previously working values) or coming out of sleep.

[albain]

Me too, this confirms what I suspected.

We can assert the following :

- ATI 57xx series
- Software decoding (no DXVA)
- EVR renderer
- Video output to RGB in FFdShow (more dropouts than YUY2)
- Any ATI driver (tried MS default, 9.10, 9.11, 9.12, 9.12 patched) with or without realtek ATI HDMI 2.39 driver
- Formats concerned : SPDIF formats (AC3/DTS).

=> Gives heavy dropouts on the HDMI audio output and even on the SPDIF outputs of your other cards (onboard motherboard for example)

Don't know for HD audio formats but I didn't experienced dropouts yesterday on Indy4 in TrueHD bitstream

What worries me is that I didn't experience so heavy dropouts at first : I managed to remove them yesterday by switching to ATI HDMI renderer, and today (nothing changed) with the exact same config I have the problem which makes me think of an hardware malfunction.
I still have the ticket to request a refund but I'd rather know if this is fixable with drivers update

[SamuriHL]

I'm not sure about this hardware failure idea. My 5870 is showing the exact same issue *in ffdshow only*. In PVD9 and WinDVD 2010, I get no audio dropouts whatsoever so long as I'm using the realtek 2.39 HDMI driver. The ATI driver breaks WinDVD 2010 for me. If I have EVR selected in MPC-HC, all is well and no audio problems. As soon as I switch it to VMR or whatever, instant audio dropouts. Switching it back to EVR fixes it. I think it's either an ATI bug or something else, but, I don't think it's a hardware issue else PDVD9 or WinDVD 2010 would have issues.

[Sebastiii]

@SamuriHL
Are you sure that in MPC when you are no dropout you work in software mode ? because in DXVA hardware mode no pb @ all. :)

Strange PB !!! i hope that is not an hardware issue.

[SamuriHL]

I'm not entirely sure how I would know that. If I select EVR Custom Pres. that should be software mode, correct? It allows me to have subtitles so I'm guessing it has to be software rendering. Is VMR9 (renderless) using DXVA? Cause when I select that one, it breaks the audio and I get the drop outs. I admit I'm still not up to speed on all the options in MPC-HC so it could be that I'm missing something here.

[Emilot]

I'm not entirely sure how I would know that. If I select EVR Custom Pres. that should be software mode, correct? It allows me to have subtitles so I'm guessing it has to be software rendering. Is VMR9 (renderless) using DXVA? Cause when I select that one, it breaks the audio and I get the drop outs. I admit I'm still not up to speed on all the options in MPC-HC so it could be that I'm missing something here.

I think EVR Custom it is not break HA, even with subs....

From MPC Thread...

"DXVA is quite susceptible, so if you want to use it you have to respect those rules:

* Windows XP, Vista and 7
* For Windows XP users, select Overlay Mixer, WMR7(9) or VMR7(9) Renderless
* For Vista users, select EVR or EVR Custom
* For DXVA and subtitles support select VMR7(9) Renderless or EVR Custom."

If we can have it at FFdshow.....with new DXVA(Albain??)

[SamuriHL]

Could be. This is not an area I really have any idea about. I went to internal filters and checked, both dxva and ffmpeg was checked for each video codec. I tried selecting either/or and the situation did not change. With EVR or EVR Custom, no audio problems. With VMR, audio dropouts persist. I don't know if this information helps anyone or not.

[Emilot]

Could be. This is not an area I really have any idea about. I went to internal filters and checked, both dxva and ffmpeg was checked for each video codec. I tried selecting either/or and the situation did not change. With EVR or EVR Custom, no audio problems. With VMR, audio dropouts persist. I don't know if this information helps anyone or not.

You shouldn't choose VMR on Vista or 7!!!

If you choose only ffmpeg on internal filters and EVR or EVR Custom is software "mode".

If you choose dxva and not ffmpeg and EVR or EVR Custom, then you are in hardware(DXVA) "mode".

Check CPU throttle plz...

[SamuriHL]

You shouldn't choose VMR on Vista or 7!!!

If you choose only ffmpeg on internal filters and EVR or EVR Custom is software "mode".

If you choose dxva and not ffmpeg and EVR or EVR Custom, then you are in hardware(DXVA) "mode".

Like I said, I don't know very much here. :D This is way outside my knowledge area. Ok, so, VMR is bad on Vista and 7?? Hmm, that's odd but ok. EVR or EVR Custom works fine whether I have ffmpeg (software, apparently) or dxva (hardware) selected in internal filters. Neither work with VMR, so, your assertion that I shouldn't be using VMR is probably correct. :D I'm on 7 64, but, am using the 32 bit version of MPC-HC and ffdshow. (One of these days I really need to set up ffdshow to compile 64 bit on my machine so I can always have the latest and start using 64 bit MPC-HC) Anyway, I don't know if any of this info helps anyone or not. For me, if I keep it on EVR or preferably EVR Custom, I can use either software or hardware mode with no audio dropout.

[SamuriHL]

Check CPU throttle plz...

With DXVA, MPC-HC.exe takes a whopping 6-12%.

With ffmpeg, MPC-HC.exe takes 18-30%. Woa....wait a minute, NOW I'm getting audio dropouts?? Even on EVR Custom??? I wonder if I didn't set it correctly before. Damnit. Ok, yes, on software mode it does appear to be giving me audio dropouts.

[Emilot]

With DXVA, MPC-HC.exe takes a whopping 6-12%.

With ffmpeg, MPC-HC.exe takes 18-30%. Woa....wait a minute, NOW I'm getting audio dropouts?? Even on EVR Custom??? I wonder if I didn't set it correctly before. Damnit. Ok, yes, on software mode it does appear to be giving me audio dropouts.

And what about in the "software mode" and EVR???

[SamuriHL]

And what about in the "software mode" and EVR???

Also giving me audio dropouts. I must have not set it properly before. sigh. But yes, if I uncheck the DXVA options in internal filters for VC1 and H.264, I now get audio dropouts on both EVR and EVR Custom. Setting DXVA and unchecking ffmpeg, no audio dropouts at all.

[piit]

We can assert the following :
...
- Formats concerned : SPDIF formats (AC3/DTS).
...


Well, I'm afraid I have these dropouts even if playing PCM audio with full screen video - e.g. when playing a flash video on the web (from vimeo) in full screen. Strangely enough the dropouts disappear when I put the mouse over the video controls (play/pause) to keep them shown all the time (normally they auto-hide).

Even stranger is that I use to have these heavy dropouts in MPC-HC in software decode mode (not in DXVA, like others), but they seem to have disappeared recently. I did not make any changes to the setup. I've a 5750.

Piit

[joikd]

I just unchecked both DXVA options, but had no drop-outs for the five minutes that I ran the tests on a blu-ray (VC1) and an SD DVD. The blu-ray did get the CPU up to 60% usage, but both audio and video were fine.

By the way, my W7 install was the hotfix Cat. 9.12 drivers w/o the audio drivers (never installed the original Cat. 9.12--went straight to the hot fix drivers), then the Realtek 2.39 ATI HDMI drivers.

[Sebastiii]

So to see that i in Hardware DXVA mode i go on filter when i play with MPC and check MPC Video and in it, we can see if hardware is enable or not :)
I hope that it's driver issue :)
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

I just unchecked both DXVA options, but had no drop-outs for the five minutes that I ran the tests on a blu-ray (VC1) and an SD DVD. The blu-ray did get the CPU up to 60% usage, but both audio and video were fine.

By the way, my W7 install was the hotfix Cat. 9.12 drivers w/o the audio drivers (never installed the original Cat. 9.12--went straight to the hot fix drivers), then the Realtek 2.39 ATI HDMI drivers.

I've got a quad core 8200 in my machine and it never went above 36% on CPU, but, I get audio dropouts almost immediately. I was using Dark Knight to test it. I have the same setup in terms of 7 64, 9.12 hotfix, and realtek 2.39 HDMI driver.

[albain]

This is a shame that ATI 5xxx cards give dropouts on such basic formats : regular AC3/DTS passthrough

So now we can tell that all the 5xxx series is affected, and this concerns software decoding mode.

We should post trouble tickets to AMD support

[albain]

This is a shame that ATI 5xxx cards give dropouts on such basic formats : regular AC3/DTS passthrough

So now we can tell that all the 5xxx series is affected, and this concerns software decoding mode on ALL players : MPCHC with its own codecs, VLC, or any player using a directshow software decoder... such as FFDShow

We should post trouble tickets to AMD support

[SamuriHL]

Way to go ATI. :rolleyes: I've never run into this before because I always use HA whenever playing anything. Awesome.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,
We should open tickets :) yes but who start the ticket and how too lol :)
Big Thx,
Seb.

Ps : i have post on website but i not sure that is the right place :

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=124894

[Perls]

I'm using a 4550 card so I can't test the HD formats, but
- software decoding and a3 passthrough over hdmi with ffdshow -> dropouts
- software decoding and ac3 passthrough over hdmi with ac3filter -> ok
So maybe not everything should be put down on the ati driver...

[nightfly]

Update on compatibility on my Xonar/Nvidia setup.

I've discovered that the Win7 playback device setting affects my TrueHD issues.

Set to S/PDif I have problems playing some titles with audio glitches/dropout, inability to pause playback w/o losing audio; low volume levels. I had this problem with Harry Potter Half Blood Prince BD last night.

If I set the Win7 PB devices to Asus Speakers, for for Harry Potter HBP, THD played back with good volume, I could play/pause w/o issue, i.e. normal audio playback. Tested one other title, Defiance, and it worked great as well. Re-tested Star Trek, and still got audio dropouts, but no more "gllitches". So for my gt220 Nvidia/DXVA/Xonar setup, setting PB device to speakers clearly is the better choice for THD based titles.

Still have no issues with DTS-MA.

[Sebastiii]

Hi so i have retested using my 5770 :

- software decoding and ac3 passthrough over hdmi with ffdshow -> dropouts
I've desintalled ffdshow :
- software decoding and ac3 passthrough over hdmi with Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder -> dropouts
- software decoding and ac3 passthrough over hdmi with ac3filter -> dropouts

I force dropout when i move the mouse to fit screen of MPC-HC.

Seb.

[SamuriHL]

Who wants to play adventurous person and install an older MPC-HC version to see if it works there? I don't have time tonight but it might be a worthwhile experiment to see if there's still audio dropout problems with an older build.

[Sebastiii]

I go to bed, i'll test it tomorrow, but in mediaportal, i have dropouts too.
I open ticket on AMD (i have made many test so i think i've made 2 or 3 ticket lol)
Good night :)
Seb.

[Andy o]

That seriously sucks!! The way they've been pushing them out it wouldn't overly surprise me to find that some of them are defective. I know Andy had his replaced. This would be why I got an XFX...lifetime warranty.

I found the same trouble with the new 5770 though, different brands and all. Channels switch if mixer is at 24/96 5.1, sounds turn into horrible distorted noise if set at 24/96 7.1. Could be a 5700 thing, but I doubt it, I still haven't read of anyone with these kinds of trouble, it's still different to what albain is experiencing. Still need to test with the other motherboard, been out all day.

Right now at 5.1 24/48 mixer is working fine. It could be instead of CPU charge, the problem is somewhere in the bandwidth department. If anyone has any idea...

[Andy o]

Who wants to play adventurous person and install an older MPC-HC version to see if it works there? I don't have time tonight but it might be a worthwhile experiment to see if there's still audio dropout problems with an older build.

I'd recommend to just download the zipped version and save settings to an .ini file (it's in the preferences menu), you don't need to install MPC-HC, especially when it's being updated so frequently.

Also to check DXVA, the status bar in the bottom will tell you if it's being used (should say "[DXVA]"--with the brackets).

[albain]

SamuriHL has a 5870 so this does not affect only the 5700 series

About AC3Filter, this is very interesting.

This means that MS decoder, MPCHC and FFDShow share the same implementation of SPDIF which is different on AC3Filter.

This is really weird that it would work better with AC3Filter.
I'll try to make some tests to confirm.

Have you tried FFDShow in software decoding + RGB output + AC3Filter w/ AC3 or DTS Passthrough ?

[Andy o]

By the way, with the 4670 and the Realtek 2.39 driver I was also having some weird stuff. I mentioned it either here or at AVS, but after using ReClock and playing a 48 kHz file on exclusive mode, if I set the mixer to 96 kHz audio would be played slower and lower. I'll dig up the post where I wrote exactly what was going on, later, time to go to bed.

[albain]

I also experience dropouts with AC3Filter, so this is not caused by the software.

This is more likely a video/audio sync issue through HDMI (which is the tough part in the drivers implementation).

I know that on W7 the most common video formats are decoded with hardware (mpeg2, h264, vc1) but still, this is curious that this issue has not been raised elsewhere.

[Skinleech]

I get dropouts in software decoding in my Xonar too, I raised it a few pages back, but it got lost I guess.

So it's not just an ATI issue. This was using the latest CoreAVC (v2.0) instead of the DXVA decoder built into MPC.

[Sebastiii]

arggg so it's win7 issue ?
what test that we made to see that ?
But albain before your ATI 5750 you doesn't have the dropouts ?.
weird !!!!

[Sebastiii]

I also experience dropouts with AC3Filter, so this is not caused by the software.

This is more likely a video/audio sync issue through HDMI (which is the tough part in the drivers implementation).

I know that on W7 the most common video formats are decoded with hardware (mpeg2, h264, vc1) but still, this is curious that this issue has not been raised elsewhere.

I think that a lot of people use hardware mode that maybe why the issue not raise.
Thx,
Seb.

Ps : i didn't try in vista and i didn't try to disable AERO.
i'll go to test.

[tetsuo55]

Thanks for the dxvachecker screenshot, looks like mpeg2 vld still is not supported :(

@Everyone:

You should all report your problem to ATI at the same time. (ATI only works on problems it gets 100's of support requests for through the official channels)

Please raise tickets for all the problems you have

-Chroma upsampling bug
-HDMI audio drops
-Lack of L5.1 support for DXVA
-etc..

You can submit them here:
http://support.amd.com/us/contacts/Pages/GraphicsTechnicalSupport.aspx?LID=usenterpriseleftnav

We can only get a bugfix in the driver if we all work together on this.

Additionally, you should report all these bugs to your brand manufacturer too, they will aid in the pressure to get AMD to fix this stuff.

[SamuriHL]

I found the same trouble with the new 5770 though, different brands and all. Channels switch if mixer is at 24/96 5.1, sounds turn into horrible distorted noise if set at 24/96 7.1. Could be a 5700 thing, but I doubt it, I still haven't read of anyone with these kinds of trouble, it's still different to what albain is experiencing. Still need to test with the other motherboard, been out all day.

Right now at 5.1 24/48 mixer is working fine. It could be instead of CPU charge, the problem is somewhere in the bandwidth department. If anyone has any idea...

I use 7.1 48/24 which is likely why I haven't seen your issue. Awesome. Just awesome...

[SamuriHL]

Thanks for the dxvachecker screenshot, looks like mpeg2 vld still is not supported :(

@Everyone:

You should all report your problem to ATI at the same time. (ATI only works on problems it gets 100's of support requests for through the official channels)

Please raise tickets for all the problems you have

-Chroma upsampling bug
-HDMI audio drops
-Lack of L5.1 support for DXVA
-etc..

You can submit them here:
http://support.amd.com/us/contacts/Pages/GraphicsTechnicalSupport.aspx?LID=usenterpriseleftnav

We can only get a bugfix in the driver if we all work together on this.

Additionally, you should report all these bugs to your brand manufacturer too, they will aid in the pressure to get AMD to fix this stuff.

Email support form is temporarily out of order??? Nice. :rolleyes:

[blackEyEz]

Hello, i just got a 5750 and im trying to do the setup in the opening post for HD audio. Could someone give me links where to get MPC audio renderer and a site where to get the latest MPC-HC?

Thanks

[Andy o]

I use 7.1 48/24 which is likely why I haven't seen your issue. Awesome. Just awesome...

With the Pio (unlike the 606) you can go as high as the sky!:)

[SamuriHL]

With the Pio (unlike the 606) you can go as high as the sky!:)

And room correction doesn't get affected? Well, that's kinda nice. I guess I'll have to crank it up then. That way I, too, can run head first into your issue. Hey, wait a minute!! :D