ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion [Archive] - Page 38

SeeMoreDigital

15th June 2010, 23:14

If that fails, then perhaps mkvmerge is causing some issues? I don't know. I'd just like to find out where the problem is. Again, not trying to stir up trouble here. :)As far as I know MKVmerge does not support PGS (.SUP) subtitles. Could this be the cause :eek:

liquidskin76

15th June 2010, 23:35

As far as I know MKVmerge does not support PGS (.SUP) subtitles. Could this be the cause :eek:

I see the haali/dts-hd problem with mkvmerge mkv's that are sub free or have .srt subs.

liquidskin76

15th June 2010, 23:39

Perhaps we should try a fresh decrypted dts-hd movie using anydvd hd (left in it's original m2ts container and format so it's untouched by anything other than anydvd). I can't at the moment as my pc is out action (on work laptop without blu-ray drive!).

If that also bitstream ok, then we truly know that makemkv is doing something special that haali likes!

dbone1026

15th June 2010, 23:45

I see the haali/dts-hd problem with mkvmerge mkv's that are sub free or have .srt subs.

Hmmm....I don't use Haali but when testing out SageTV to get HD Audio bitstreaming I installed Haali to use in place of the SageTV internal mkv splitter which does not support HD audio currently. TrueHD mkvs played perfect but DTS(MA) mkvs stuttered like crazy. All my Blu Ray mkvs were created with EAC3To + MKVMerge. I may have to try creating a Blu Ray with MakeMKV, and test again with Haali + ffdshow to see if I encounter the same problem with DTS(MA)

liquidskin76

16th June 2010, 00:00

@SamuriHL,

How did the tsmuxer .ts file behave? Was it muxed from a fresh anydvd hd backup?

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 00:42

Yeah, I meant that Another EAC3To GUI tool does it all in one click as well, just like MakeMKV (so no need to do the multiple steps you are doing). You are getting PGS subs working in mkvs via MPC HC? I haven't tested in a few monthhs, and Haali was crapping out my players

Oh I didn't know that about AEG. I'll have to check it out. As for the PGS subs working in MPC-HC, yes, I have it working just fine on ones I make with MakeMKV.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 00:44

As far as I know MKVmerge does not support PGS (.SUP) subtitles. Could this be the cause :eek:

No, clearly mkvmerge didn't add PGS and when I did this one with MakeMKV I didn't add any subs for that very reason. Just the video and audio tracks. Taking the one that worked from MakeMKV and using it directly as the source in mkvmerge, the output from mkvmerge failed. IMO, it's not a stream problem so much as a problem splitting files from mkvmerge but again, I'm not wanting to jump to conclusions.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 00:44

I see the haali/dts-hd problem with mkvmerge mkv's that are sub free or have .srt subs.

Right, exactly.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 00:47

Hmmm....I don't use Haali but when testing out SageTV to get HD Audio bitstreaming I installed Haali to use in place of the SageTV internal mkv splitter which does not support HD audio currently. TrueHD mkvs played perfect but DTS(MA) mkvs stuttered like crazy. All my Blu Ray mkvs were created with EAC3To + MKVMerge. I may have to try creating a Blu Ray with MakeMKV, and test again with Haali + ffdshow to see if I encounter the same problem with DTS(MA)

Yes, please. Because at this point in time, I'm really starting to think it's an mkvmerge "issue" of some kind. For some reason I can't split m2ts or ts files with haali on my machine right now so I wasn't able to test that. Not sure what's going on there with that. But if you could please try a MakeMKV MKV for one that didn't work with mkvmerge I'd appreciate it. eac3to does NOT seem to be the problem here at all. Nor does tsMuxer. The streams they made are identical. I believe it's in the packaging of the MKV.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 00:48

@SamuriHL,

How did the tsmuxer .ts file behave? Was it muxed from a fresh anydvd hd backup?

Yes, but, as I just posted I couldn't get it to play with haali. I even reinstalled it and told it to split everything and it still didn't bother. I don't know what to do on that issue. ts/m2ts doesn't want to play nice for me with haali at all. Which sucks cause it breaks disc playback, too.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 00:58

Let me clarify on the ts/m2ts issue. Haali splits the video just fine, but, it doesn't see the audio for me. It's really weird.

liquidskin76

16th June 2010, 01:22

@SamuriHL

Fancy doing a little test!? Pop in a dts-hd db disc, fire up anydvd, and using tsmuxer create a bd folder on your hard drive with main movie and dts-hd audio only. Then with makemkv, use the bd folder created by tsmuxer to create a new mkv. See if it works.

Do the same however use eac3to instead of tsmuxer. See if it works.

If both are ok, then it has to be mkvmerge, right?

I can't do as my pc is down and me laptop doesn't have a bd drive!

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 01:24

It won't, I've already tried. MakeMKV won't touch any of my tsMuxer made BD structures.

dbone1026

16th June 2010, 01:25

Oh I didn't know that about AEG. I'll have to check it out. As for the PGS subs working in MPC-HC, yes, I have it working just fine on ones I make with MakeMKV.

Here is my writeup on Another EAC3To GUI. The author Mike is constantly updating with new features:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/03/29/mkv-mania-another-eac3to-gui/

I will put together a MakeMKV mkv and test out with Haali/SageTV. Curious as well to see if I get the same result as with my MKVMerge mkvs (stuttering with DTS-MA). I will report back once I have a chance to test this out (most likely tomorrow)

liquidskin76

16th June 2010, 01:33

It won't, I've already tried. MakeMKV won't touch any of my tsMuxer made BD structures.

Bummer! Does it just sit there doing nothing when saving the file at the end?

Rica has been playing with the new SolveigMM MKV muxer. Maybe he has a dts-ma mkv created with that? I'll pm him.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 01:33

Here is my writeup on Another EAC3To GUI. The author Mike is constantly updating with new features:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/03/29/mkv-mania-another-eac3to-gui/

I will put together a MakeMKV mkv and test out with Haali/SageTV. Curious as well to see if I get the same result as with my MKVMerge mkvs (stuttering with DTS-MA). I will report back once I have a chance to test this out (most likely tomorrow)

Thanks! I'll take a look at the guide tonight and see how well that works for me. Right now I'm just about ready to say screw it and redo my whole library with MakeMKV. It'll take a bit of effort but at least I'll have MKV's with embedded PGS subs that work with Haali. Of course, not being able to split ts/m2ts with haali is a bit of a problem. :) But I know a way around that, too, so, no big deal. I'm ALMOST there. But I would like to help try to figure out what's going on with mkvmerge files to make them go insane with haali.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 02:01

Bummer! Does it just sit there doing nothing when saving the file at the end?

Sometimes. Other times it fails immediately and throws and error. But yea, I've seen it hang at the end of the file til I kill the task. I've never had a successful one that's been done on something that had tsMuxer run on it. Always have to do it from my originals or an ISO made with AnyDVD. As long as it hasn't been processed.

Rica has been playing with the new SolveigMM MKV muxer. Maybe he has a dts-ma mkv created with that? I'll pm him.

It's only 32 bit right? Maybe I should go look at it.

Found this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154055

My wife is wanting to watch a movie right now so I'll test it tomorrow.

rica

16th June 2010, 02:07

Rica has been playing with the new SolveigMM MKV muxer. Maybe he has a dts-ma mkv created with that? I'll pm him.

Here is what you want:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1407432#post1407432

And pls check out my posts 61 and 62 on that thread.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 04:19

Thanks, Rica. I'll try it out tomorrow. As of now I have both x64 and x32 ffdshow installed and have MKV's from MakeMKV playing in both MPC-HC and WMP playing perfectly using Haali. However, as we know, this isn't working with non-MakeMKV made MKV's. So, I'll try out this SolveigMM splitter tomorrow. I can try the muxer but I don't think it allows PGS subs, either, right? But for a test of DTS-HD MA that'll be ok.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 04:34

Ok, did some useful tests finally. :) This is with 32 bit ffdshow and WMP, not that it really matters.

MakeMKV made: http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=vmYE4NFM
mkvmerge made: http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=7FWqCqQH

I hope someone can look at those logs, make sense of what the hell is happening, and maybe lead to a fix? Maybe? At the very end of the mkvmerge log there's corrupt frames so clearly something's different. Remember, I make a MakeMKV file right from the disc, and then I took that as input into mkvmerge, changed nothing, and output it. In theory, it should all be the same, but, Haali doesn't seem to think so. :D Thank you all!!

madshi

16th June 2010, 06:57

@SamuriHL, what happens if you demux the DTS-HD tracks from the MKVs created by MakeMKV and mkvmerge and compare them? Are they bitwise identical? You can use eac3to for demuxing.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 14:45

I used eac3to to extract the MakeMKV made MKV and the DTS tracks are binary identical to the one I extracted from the disc directly as verified with UltraCompare. I'll extract the one from mkvmerge that I made using the MakeMKV made MKV and compare that now, but, I'm guessing it'll also be identical.

Interesting to note when extracting the MakeMKV made MKV, I got a lot of this:

Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:26.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:27.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:29.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:30.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:32.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:33.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:35.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:36.
Video has a gap of 1 frames at playtime 0:54:37.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 14:59

As predicted, they are also identical. And I got the same video gap messages on the mkvmerge MKV that I did on the MakeMKV MKV. It's just really bizarre! I don't get this at all.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 15:09

So when I look at the MKV files in UltraCompare, I see a *LOT* of "stuff" at the beginning of the MakeMKV file that is all null (00's) in the (what should be identical!) mkvmerge file. They seem to be completely different. I don't know much about the MKV container and how the data is stored, but, they appear to be taking radically different approaches to how they store things. I suspect this is the root of our problem but I don't know enough about it to know why or what to do about it.

madshi

16th June 2010, 15:51

I don't think the zeroes have anything to do with the problem.

You can use mkvinfo with the options "-v" and "-o log.txt" to get a full log of the files. I suspect that mkvmerge and MakeMKV split the DTS-HD blocks into chunks of different sizes. What you could do is create two small demo MKV files which demonstrate the problem (both with only DTS-HD in them and no video) and then upload them for Mosu to look at. He should be able to tell us in what way they differ...

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 15:56

Creating demo MKV's that are small is an issue. By definition anything containing DTS-HD MA isn't "small" usually. I'll see what I can come up with though. I know there's a DTS-HD MA logo on some discs that people have used for a demo. If I can find a disc that has that on it I could extract it and use that.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 16:12

Here are the requested logs. I had to zip them as they were crashing pastebin. LOL.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZFK7GG4L

Hopefully those contain a clue as to what's going on here.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 16:15

Also, Madshi, I want to thank you for helping me troubleshoot this problem and get the pertinent info to hopefully resolve it. I'm still very new to MKV and the tools so this has been a great learning experience. Hopefully with what we find we can help everyone out by getting this issue fixed.

madshi

16th June 2010, 17:00

Here are the requested logs. I had to zip them as they were crashing pastebin. LOL.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZFK7GG4L

Hopefully those contain a clue as to what's going on here.
On a quick check I don't see anything wrong in the mkvmerge log. However, mkvmerge 4.0 muxes in a different way compared to older mkvmerge versions. I'd suggest trying with an mkvmerge 3.x version. If the problem exists with 3.x, too, I'd suggest to bring this problem to Mosu's attention.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 17:09

On a quick check I don't see anything wrong in the mkvmerge log. However, mkvmerge 4.0 muxes in a different way compared to older mkvmerge versions. I'd suggest trying with an mkvmerge 3.x version. If the problem exists with 3.x, too, I'd suggest to bring this problem to Mosu's attention.

Ok. I'll see what I can do. I don't know if I have a previous version of mkvmerge kicking around but I might.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 17:20

Same result with 2.9.9 (the newest old version I have kicking around). I'll send him an email and bring this to his attention. Thanks again for your help!

dbone1026

16th June 2010, 17:27

Ok. I'll see what I can do. I don't know if I have a previous version of mkvmerge kicking around but I might.

Supposedly the new version of MKVMerge (4.0) causes issues with subtitles which is why I have not upgraded. You can download an older version here:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MKVtoolnix/old-versions#download

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 17:41

Thanks! I'll grab the latest 3.x version but I suspect it won't change much. 2.9.9 had the exact same problem. I've sent an email to Mosu to see if he has time to look at this issue. I know it affects a lot of people because I've seen various posts the last few months in both ffdshow threads and all attributed the issue to Haali. It's possible that it's a Haali issue but where it works with MakeMKV output I think it warrants a closer look. I'm really hoping this problem can be found and squashed as it'd be very beneficial to everyone.

Mosu

16th June 2010, 17:44

You can download all recent releases from http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/ and even older ones from the "old" subdirectory.

Then: I don't have the means to play back DTS-HD, and I don't have time to look into playback issues at the moment. Especially if everything's pointing to Haali's splitter. Please contact him for support.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 17:46

Thanks for the response, Mosu! I'll try to contact the author of Haali and see if they have the time to look at this.

dbone1026

16th June 2010, 18:00

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 18:09

Here is the issue I read about regarding using the latest MKVToolnix (version 4.0) and MPC w/ subtitles:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1405881#post1405881

Hmmm. That seems very specific to MPC-HC and its handling of subs, though, yea? Unless I'm reading it wrong. If you use Haali to feed the subs to ffdshow, and disable MPC-HC's handling of subs entirely would that issue still show up? Perhaps I'm not reading it right. Again, MKV is still very new to me so I'm playing catch up on how it all works.

dbone1026

16th June 2010, 18:22

Hmmm. That seems very specific to MPC-HC and its handling of subs, though, yea? Unless I'm reading it wrong. If you use Haali to feed the subs to ffdshow, and disable MPC-HC's handling of subs entirely would that issue still show up? Perhaps I'm not reading it right. Again, MKV is still very new to me so I'm playing catch up on how it all works.

I have not confirmed since I have not used the latest MKVToolnix but I agree with you, it appears to be specific to MPCs handling of subs. Just trying to cover all bases of what the culprit could be (sounds like Haali is most likely the issue)

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 18:30

I have not confirmed since I have not used the latest MKVToolnix but I agree with you, it appears to be specific to MPCs handling of subs. Just trying to cover all bases of what the culprit could be (sounds like Haali is most likely the issue)

I honestly don't know. I sent him an email so we have to wait and see what he says. For myself I'll probably just redo the DTS-HD MA MKV's I'm having issues with using MakeMKV from my originals and call it good. Time consuming for sure, but, at least I know that works. That doesn't help everyone else, though, so, we'll see what happens. I'm also really concerned that Haali isn't splitting TS or M2TS files on my machine. I've got it set up in both 32 bit land using WMP and 64 bit land using MPC-HC. Neither of them play any audio or attempt to load Haali at all when I play a TS or M2TS file. This is not a good thing IMO.

dbone1026

16th June 2010, 23:43

I can confirm SamuriHL's findings. Haali + MakeMKV mkv + FFDShow plays fine with Bitstreaming for DTS(MA). Haali + MKVMerge mkv + FFDShow stutters like crazy with DTS(MA). Also, SamuriHL is able to get PGS subs in mkvs working with FFDShow but unfortunately I cannot. I tested this with WMP, MPC HC, and SageTV.

For now I will just stick with FFDSHow + MPC Matroska Splitter as that seems to yield the most reliable results.

SamuriHL

16th June 2010, 23:46

dbone1026

16th June 2010, 23:57

Thanks for testing! Very much appreciated. Still not sure why you can't get the PGS subs to work. I have no problem with that. They show up fine on the Haali menu and I can select between them with ease. I don't blame you for sticking with the MPC splitter. I would if I didn't care about PGS subs and WMP support. I need to get this working with Haali somehow.

Maybe someone else can test out PGS support. If anyone has a PGS MKV (created by MakeMKV) and is looking for the right to earn a hairy chest (yeah, don't really know what that means!) here are SamuriHL's steps:

- Install latest Haali
- ffdshow dxva video configuration:
Subtitles is checked in the tree on the left. Make sure all the formats are checked. Make sure embedded subtitles and subtitles files checked
- MPC-HC configuration:
Playback, uncheck auto-load subtitles
Internal filters make sure matroska is unchecked
External filters add ffdshow dxva video decoder, ffdshow audio decoder, and ffdshow subtitle filter and set all to prefer.

Play MKV in either WMP or MPC HC and see if PGS subs work. I have no problem selecting the subtitles but nothing appears. In fact, this method kills all subtitles from working (IDX/SUB as well).

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 00:14

Yea, I have no problem with subs when I do that. Not sure what's up with your configuration. When you right click on the ffdshow dxva video icon, is the subtitle option checked?

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 00:19

Yea, I have no problem with subs when I do that. Not sure what's up with your configuration. When you right click on the ffdshow dxva video icon, is the subtitle option checked?

Yeah, here is a screenshot in MPC. I tried switching through each subtitle stream and no luck. Must be gremlins in my PC :devil:

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3776/32972995.jpg

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 00:22

AHA! I know what the issue is. :) Go back into ffdshow dxva video settings and under the hardware acceleration section, turn on post processing. :)

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 00:25

AHA! I know what the issue is. :) Go back into ffdshow dxva video settings and under the hardware acceleration section, turn on post processing. :)

Brilliant, it is working now :thanks:

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 00:28

Brilliant, it is working now :thanks:

That's my fault. I forgot that setting. I wish ffdshow had an "enable all crap to get MKV + subs + dxva + bitstreaming working" button. :D

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 00:34

That's my fault. I forgot that setting. I wish ffdshow had an "enable all crap to get MKV + subs + dxva + bitstreaming working" button. :D

LOL, the "enable crap" feature!!!

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 00:45

LOL, the "enable crap" feature!!!

Well, doesn't it make sense? We know what options should be set by default to make everything work. I want one button to set it all. :D I don't care what they call it. LOL! And yes, I know, I know...I could just export the settings. I'm lazy! :D

MikeEby

17th June 2010, 06:53

Are you guys trying MKVMerge from the CL or the GUI?....I'm wondering if only the GUI doesn't support PGS Subs.

Also on files made with MakeMKV can you set the subs default to off but then play forced subs automatically if they are present?...These are things I've struggled with on my GUI when I convert the subs to .IDX.

In most cases I only want to see forced subs by default although it would be nice to have non-forced present in the file. I also don't want to be bothered to turn them off. I also don't want to turn them on if only forced subs are present...Does that make sense?

Mike