ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[mindbomb]

I've tried using the mpc internal matroska splitter with pgs subtitles, but it didnt work too well. MPC would basically freeze up for a minute, then the video would play but seeking would be broken.
I've since assumed that you can't use the internal mkv splitter with pgs subtitles, but this is not the case?
edit:
yea, i was wrong, it had more to do with how the mkv was made, the pgs subtitles were a red herring.

[Emilot]

Do we have any news about DTS-MA through analog outputs??

I mean like DTS-HD which is converted to LPCM Uncompressed and delivered to analog outputs.....

For those who don't have amplifier with HD capabilities...

Thank you...

[SamuriHL]

It's not an open spec. Therefore there's no open source decoder for it. I'm unaware of anyone working on one, either.

[Emilot]

It's not an open spec. Therefore there's no open source decoder for it. I'm unaware of anyone working on one, either.

Thank you Samuri....:rolleyes:

[SamuriHL]

Thank you Samuri....:rolleyes:

I share your sentiment about that info, just for the record. :) I wish there was an OSS decoder for it, as well. So far the ONLY commercial decoder that works for 7.1 that I know of is ArcSoft's. :rolleyes: indeed!

[Emilot]

I share your sentiment about that info, just for the record. :) I wish there was an OSS decoder for it, as well. So far the ONLY commercial decoder that works for 7.1 that I know of is ArcSoft's. :rolleyes: indeed!

Samuri i manage to have arcsoft hd audio decoder .126, which is the only one with full hd audio through analog and the latest arcsoft video decoder....to mpc...

But my main problem is with the subs in MPC which i cannot make them work(with the EVR Custom) because of Mpeg Demux of arcsoft...

Thanks for your consideration although....:)

[ontherocks]

What needs to be fixed or improved :
- Dolby Digital Plus bitstream on ATI 5xxx : this is likely due to a driver issue (ATI drivers don't support DD+ yet)

Any updates on this?
ATI Catalyst version 10 and above, does support bitstreaming Dolby Digital Plus. Have successfully tested it with Splash Player Pro.

[roeic]

Hi,

After much time I have finally managed to bitstream Dolby True HD and DTS MA HD via Xunar HDAV (Old Driver 6.12.8.1764 ) to my Onkyo TSRX606 reciever via MPC-HC (latest version avaivable) !!!.
I was so glad that I immediately tried to make it work with VMC/VMP (on Vista 32bit OS), however after many tries I have sadly failed.
What I did notice is that somehow MPC-HC force ffdshow-audio to "out" "Dolby AC3 SPDIF" where in regular rendering in graphstudio (or VMP) the "out" keep it as DVD LPCM. Attached pics of the graphs of both mpc-hc and rendering-graphstudio and the screenshots of ffdshow-audio "out" properites.

can anyone explain how MPC-HC force it like this ???

Any advice on how to make it work in VMC/VMP ???


Appriacte any help :) thx Roei.

[tiben20]

Hi,

After much time I have finally managed to bitstream Dolby True HD and DTS MA HD via Xunar HDAV (Old Driver 6.12.8.1764 ) to my Onkyo TSRX606 reciever via MPC-HC (latest version avaivable) !!!.
I was so glad that I immediately tried to make it work with VMC/VMP (on Vista 32bit OS), however after many tries I have sadly failed.
What I did notice is that somehow MPC-HC force ffdshow-audio to "out" "Dolby AC3 SPDIF" where in regular rendering in graphstudio (or VMP) the "out" keep it as DVD LPCM. Attached pics of the graphs of both mpc-hc and rendering-graphstudio and the screenshots of ffdshow-audio "out" properites.

can anyone explain how MPC-HC force it like this ???

Any advice on how to make it work in VMC/VMP ???


Appriacte any help :) thx Roei.
you can do that by going in ffdshow config in the output section
in "Output format for uncompressed or decoded streams"
check only 16bit LPCM
I just tested and its connecting like what you wanted in your print screen

[roeic]

Hi,

Thanks for the advise.

I also manage to achieve it last night after removing all startup services from "msconfig". (The configuration you stated is the only one that works with MPC-HC and so I have been using only it ever since I started testing)
But the problem still exist in Windows Vista Media Player / Media Center (32bit), probably because these lousy apps uses "DirectSound Audio Renderer".

I have tried to replace the CLSID of:

Defualt DirectSound Device
Defualt MidiOut Device
Defualt WaveOut Device
Digital Output (ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3
DirectSound: Digital Output (ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3

to the CLSID of ASAudioRenderer.dll (Arcsoft Renderer) and succedd in the replacement ! (now Gspot shows ASAudioRenderer.dll instead of Quartz.dll in the proper devices)
BUT Vista Media Player/Media Center still not sending bitstream to the reciever but only PCM 5.1 with noieses (for Dolby TrueHD) or SPDIF with no sound (for DTS-MA HD).
These apps probably (I assume) load Quartz.dll directly instead of relying on the registry information.

Do you or anyone know on how to Bitstream in Vista MP/MC BUT on the XONAR card ???

Anyone have an idea on how to force Visat MP/MC to use Arcsoft Audio Renderer rather than default DirectSound Renderer (Assumable Quartz.dll) ????

I have no more ideas ?? any advise is appreciated :)

Thx:)

[Skinleech]

FYI, anyone who is still struggling with bitstreaming DTS-HD MA with Haali, it's easily fixed.

Open Mkvmerge Gui & select Header Editor from the File menu. Open your mkv, and under default duration for the audio track(s) Add Element and enter 10666666. Save the header and you're done. I've done a bunch of my files and they all work fine in Haali now.

I stumbled upon this on a random forum last week (can't recall where now) so it may be old news already.

[SamuriHL]

It is. :) I think Mosu made a change in mkvmerge to fix it automagically.

[robpdotcom]

The change in mmg only fixes new files though - to fix one made before the change, the header editor is MUCH faster than remuxing.

BTW: I've had a few THD files that play out of sync with Haali. Adding 833333 to the default duration seemed to fix those.

automagically.

BTW2: Typo, or play on words?:p

[SamuriHL]

The change in mmg only fixes new files though - to fix one made before the change, the header editor is MUCH faster than remuxing.


Ah, yes, you're right, of course.


BTW: I've had a few THD files that play out of sync with Haali. Adding 833333 to the default duration seemed to fix those.


Hmm, hadn't seen that one. Neat!


BTW2: Typo, or play on words?:p

No typo. :) I use that word a lot. I'm a software engineer, so, a lot of what I do is magic. :D

[Skinleech]

It is. :) I think Mosu made a change in mkvmerge to fix it automagically.

Ah, seems I'm .3 versions out of the latest, so yeah I guess it's fixed. I stopped caring as I stopped using Haali but when I saw the fix thought I'd try.

Guess I should update mmg :o

[SamuriHL]

Ah, seems I'm .3 versions out of the latest, so yeah I guess it's fixed. I stopped caring as I stopped using Haali but when I saw the fix thought I'd try.

Guess I should update mmg :o

I haven't been using haali lately either. LAVF has gotten to a point now where I find it quite usable. And we know where to find Nev if it breaks. :D Anyway, yea, you should upgrade mmg.

[robpdotcom]

The only reason I use Haali is because I started backing up seamless branching BluRays with ordered chapter mkv's - and so far, only Haali will play them correctly.

Other than that, LAVF is my new splitter of choice.

[SamuriHL]

Maybe Nev will add support for that. He wants to work on BD support next I think. You can always ask. :)

[robpdotcom]

I've mentioned it, and I think he said it's low on the priority list. Understandably so, since I don't hear of many other users messing around with ordered chapters. Although, from what I've read, it does seem to be catching on in the Anime/torrent world.

I think when someone starts to work on menus for Matrsoska people will start to utilize the ordered chapters a bit more. Imagine being able to back up an entire Bluray such as Avatar, with the director's cut, extended, and theatrical version, and have full menu support - all in one mkv file that is much smaller than what would be needed if you saved each version separately. Imo, that should be one of the ultimate goals.

Anyway, don't want to drive this topic any further off topic.

And btw, thanks for my new favorite word: Automagically :cool:

[ontherocks]

What needs to be fixed or improved :
- Dolby Digital Plus bitstream on ATI 5xxx : this is likely due to a driver issue (ATI drivers don't support DD+ yet)

Any updates on this?
ATI Catalyst version 10 and above, does support bitstreaming Dolby Digital Plus. Have successfully tested it with Splash Player Pro.

[SamuriHL]

Any updates on this?
ATI Catalyst version 10 and above, does support bitstreaming Dolby Digital Plus. Have successfully tested it with Splash Player Pro.

I haven't seen ANY player that is able to bitstream DD+ on an AMD card, regardless of what the driver claims to support. IMO, it lies. You're absolutely positive you're getting DD+ with SPP?

[Andy o]

Just installed the trial of SP Pro, and no workie. TrueHD yes, DD+ no. From m2ts from the Dolby demo bluray. 5770 with both Realtek 2.55 and the one that comes with Cat 11.3

[SamuriHL]

Yea I haven't seen any REAL reports of DD+ working on an AMD card. I've seen PDVD's unique bug where it displays DD+ but it's not really.

[Andy o]

Well luckily no REAL blu-rays have DD+!

[SamuriHL]

Not so lucky is that the broadcast industry is moving to the DD+ standard "someday".

[Andy o]

Yeah, but unless they support 7.1, I don't think I'll mind just doing regular DD.

[SamuriHL]

That's an interesting question. I don't know what the plans are for their rollout of DD+. I suspect they'll want it for VOD and that type of stuff. Netflix and Vudu are already doing DD+ but I'm not sure about 7.1.

[Andy o]

Do you know any Netflix movies that have DD+? I haven't run into any and I wanna check it out.

I don't watch movies on NF instant though... quality sucks sucks sucks. Especially those starz movies.

[dbone1026]

I am having issues with my 5670 GPU.... oh wait, sorry, saw you guys and I thought this was the 'ATI HD 5000 Series Known Problems' thread on AVS :p

[SamuriHL]

Do you know any Netflix movies that have DD+? I haven't run into any and I wanna check it out.

I don't watch movies on NF instant though... quality sucks sucks sucks. Especially those starz movies.

These were instant view. And through my PS3 the quality is good good good. :) But NOT the same on the 360 or PC streaming. Whatever they're doing on the PS3 client the quality is much higher than anywhere else. I can look later if I have time and try to find one that has DD+.

[SamuriHL]

I am having issues with my 5670 GPU.... oh wait, sorry, saw you guys and I thought this was the 'ATI HD 5000 Series Known Problems' thread on AVS :p

LOL! You have no problems. It's ALL WORKING PERFECTLY. ;)

[Andy o]

These were instant view. And through my PS3 the quality is good good good. :) But NOT the same on the 360 or PC streaming. Whatever they're doing on the PS3 client the quality is much higher than anywhere else. I can look later if I have time and try to find one that has DD+.

Yeah, I was talking about those. I've had a PS3 for a while now. Specifically the starz content is bad because many times they don't respect the original aspect ratio. If they're not cropping older movies to 4:3, they're cropping newer 2.35:1 movies into 16:9. Also black levels are all over the place. Check out Brooklyn's Finest, for example.

Also, you might not notice this on most TVs, but for instance the Pioneers have automatic inverse telecine for content originally shot at 24 fps. I output my PS3 at 1080i, and I can watch that content refreshed at 72 Hz. All good, except starz doesn't preserve usual 2-3 cadence, and all is effed up. Some TV content like Psych look just fine at 24p/72Hz.

[SamuriHL]

Yeah, I was talking about those. I've had a PS3 for a while now. Specifically the starz content is bad because many times they don't respect the original aspect ratio. If they're not cropping older movies to 4:3, they're cropping newer 2.35:1 movies into 16:9. Also black levels are all over the place. Check out Brooklyn's Finest, for example.

Also, you might not notice this on most TVs, but for instance the Pioneers have automatic inverse telecine for content originally shot at 24 fps. I output my PS3 at 1080i, and I can watch that content refreshed at 72 Hz. All good, except starz doesn't preserve usual 2-3 cadence, and all is effed up. Some TV content like Psych look just fine at 24p/72Hz.

That's pretty screwy. I don't watch a lot of content on instant watch. Mostly I'm watching tv shows and stuff. For movies, I get the blu-ray cause clearly I'm all about the quality. :) Vudu isn't bad. I just checked them out recently. I rented Machete 1080p before I ended up buying it on BD. The quality, for streaming, was acceptable.

[dbone1026]

I saw you guys mentioned SP Pro, what is the benefit of that over a player such as MPC HC? I take it SP Pro uses all its own codecs/filters, so you cannot replace as you can with MPC HC. Looking at the FAQ comparison SP Pro looks like it can barely play back anything (the HD-Cam version looks like the only useful one)

[SamuriHL]

I don't use it. Hadn't ever heard of it until it was mentioned as being able to do DD+ on an AMD card. However the only real way to test that theory is to bitstream a 7.1 DD+ stream and see if you do, in fact, get 7.1 channels. Every time I've tried that with anything on an AMD card, it fails. PDVD incorrectly marks DD tracks on a BD as DD+. It's *NOT* DD+....it's just mislabeling it somehow. (Neat trick, though).

[Andy o]

Me either, "Ontherocks" mentioned it. S/he also mentioned the same about it being able to bitstream DD+ at Tulli's EDID thread at AVS, Tulli said he'd check it out but didn't come back to it, so I just checked myself with the trial of SP Pro. It looks OK though, and it at least played m2ts files. I didn't test further. But yeah, no directshow, it's gonna be barely useful for us. Just look at VLC. No WASAPI exclusive, no bitstreaming, no DTS-HD decoding, no madVR, etc etc. If Slyplayer turns out to be what we've been hoping for, it's because James is one of us :).

[Andy o]

I don't use it. Hadn't ever heard of it until it was mentioned as being able to do DD+ on an AMD card. However the only real way to test that theory is to bitstream a 7.1 DD+ stream and see if you do, in fact, get 7.1 channels. Every time I've tried that with anything on an AMD card, it fails. PDVD incorrectly marks DD tracks on a BD as DD+. It's *NOT* DD+....it's just mislabeling it somehow. (Neat trick, though).

PDVD is probably just reading the 640kbps bitrate, which is not supposed to be on a traditional (DVD, HD-DVD) Dolby Digital stream.

[dbone1026]

Me either, "Ontherocks" mentioned it. S/he also mentioned the same about it being able to bitstream DD+ at Tulli's EDID thread at AVS, Tulli said he'd check it out but didn't come back to it, so I just checked myself with the trial of SP Pro. It looks OK though, and it at least played m2ts files. I didn't test further. But yeah, no directshow, it's gonna be barely useful for us. Just look at VLC. No WASAPI exclusive, no bitstreaming, no DTS-HD decoding, no madVR, etc etc. If Slyplayer turns out to be what we've been hoping for, it's because James is one of us :).

Is SlyPlayer even still in the works, I am getting the impression that it is the Keyser Soze of the media world?

[SamuriHL]

Yes, it is. Peer posted that it already plays avatar, some clearly progress is being made. I hope that if it doesn't bit stream natively that it allows us to use ffdshow or another dshow bitstreaming decoder.

[Bmwx5]

Hi! Guys, please, tell me, I outputed TrueHD and DTSHD Master by bitstream (from comp to receiver) and indicators HD lit up on the receiver and
the sound is normal from all 5 dynamics, but I don't understand, Why in this case ffdshow displays this:
"Input: Dolby TrueHD, 7.1, 96000 Hz, 327 kbps (bitstream)", "Output: HDMI bitstream (1402)".
File type is *.m2ts., although, in my opinion, the sound of TrueHD and DTSHD Master must be higher than 2000 kbps. But when I tested almost all of my files
with HD audio types, ffdshow displayed from 300 kbps to 1500 kbps (mainly it concerns not True-HD, but DTS-HD).
What is DTS core ? Is core only the part of DTS-HD or True-HD also has core ?

P.S. My htpc configuration:
a) hardware: videocard Asus GTS 450 (can output HD audio by bitstream), Windows 7 32 bit, receiver Onkyo 508 (supports all HD formats);
b) software: MPC-HC (player), ffdshow (codecs) (for audio) and coreavc (for video for "CUDA nvidia"), haali media splitter.

P.P.S. When I tested HD files, which Rica referenced on ("dtshd_out" (m2ts and mkv) and "thd_out" (m2ts and mkv)), ffdshow displayed this:
"Input: Dolby TrueHD, 7.1, 96000 Hz, 1536 kbps (bitstream)", "Output: HDMI bitstream (1403)" - file "DTSHD_out" (m2ts and mkv)
and "Input: Dolby TrueHD, 5.1, 48000 Hz, 5220 kbps (bitstream)", "Output: HDMI bitstream (1402)" (m2ts and mkv) - file "THD_out".

[SamuriHL]

Don't worry about the display. It's a bug. If you're bitstreaming, you're getting the full HD audio experience at whatever the bitrate actually is.

[ontherocks]

I haven't seen ANY player that is able to bitstream DD+ on an AMD card, regardless of what the driver claims to support. IMO, it lies. You're absolutely positive you're getting DD+ with SPP?

Just installed the trial of SP Pro, and no workie. TrueHD yes, DD+ no. From m2ts from the Dolby demo bluray. 5770 with both Realtek 2.55 and the one that comes with Cat 11.3

Yes it indeed does bitstream DD+. The display shows DD+ in my Onkyo HT-R380.
Try with the demo trailers from here http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php
Download the following from the above website and test it with Splash Player Pro.

Dolby Digital Plus (Lossless) [Filename --> hd_dolby_digital_plus_lossless.m2ts]
Dolby Digital Plus Channel Check (Lossless) [Filename --> hd_dolby_digital_plus_channel_check_lossless.m2ts]

Don't forget to set the following in Splash Player Pro as in the image below

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4198/capture30012011140258.png

Its indeed a crappy player, I don't use it myself. But surprisingly its the only player I have come across that can bitsteram DD+.

[SamuriHL]

Weird. I'll have to check that out.

[SamuriHL]

So it seems that the AMD hardware can, in fact, bit stream eac3. Nevcairiel does it now in lav audio. Looks like it's been a bug in ffdshow as to why it wasn't working for us.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[joeydrunk]

Dude are you crazy, vudu looks absolutely amazing. It looks nearly identical to bluray on hdx with good bandwith. By the way thanx for the help with lav splitter. I still havnt been able to integrate mpchc in xbmc so I'm using a build with dsplayer/ffdshow to bitsream for the time being.
That's pretty screwy. I don't watch a lot of content on instant watch. Mostly I'm watching tv shows and stuff. For movies, I get the blu-ray cause clearly I'm all about the quality. :) Vudu isn't bad. I just checked them out recently. I rented Machete 1080p before I ended up buying it on BD. The quality, for streaming, was acceptable.

[SamuriHL]

For a streaming service, VUDU is by far the best of the bunch, but, it's nowhere near as good as blu-ray itself. You should try using LAV Audio for bitstreaming and see how that works for you. ffdshow still has a bug where EAC3 can't be bitstreamed.

[Andy o]

TrueHD 7.1 decoding is apparently broken. The rear surrounds and side surrounds are swapped. Doesn't happen with LAV audio or the Arcsoft decoder. Samples:

File name: THD 7.1.mka File size: 37.97 MB (http://www.fileserve.com/file/HVT96qf)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20333665

[osupike99]

Does anyone have issues playing some MKV rips with DTS-HD soundtrack where there is a clicking sound coming from the speakers while DTS Core track is perfectly fine? I am using the latest FFDShow.


Alex

[SamuriHL]

I didn't have that issue when I was using ffdshow for bitstreaming, no. What receiver is it? And is it only happening in MKV rips? The splitter you're using?

[osupike99]

I didn't have that issue when I was using ffdshow for bitstreaming, no. What receiver is it? And is it only happening in MKV rips? The splitter you're using?
I used Pioneer Elite VSX-94, Pioneer Elite Sc-37, Onkyo TX-NR3007 and currently Integra DHC-80.2 preamp. All of the mentioned devices had/have the issue. I am using DSPlayer branch of XBMC so I guess I am using Haali splitter? How can I check this? This only happens on MKV rips. Used DVDFab with audiocopy and MakeMKV and same result.

Alex