ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion [Archive] - Page 5

rica

9th December 2009, 03:17

Yea, i got LPCM bitstream on Vista with PDVD9; even i have some isssues like FF which is up to either pcm2tsmu or tsmuxer but this is not important for the time being and i don't care :):)
24/48/2 btw; you're right guys, thx. The question is here why we need 24 bit for LPCM bitstreaming then? I'll check it with 7/64 and the reasons tomorrow.

Here is the most probably non-useless log:

http://www.mediafire.com/?nuumijyhntn

BTW i got passthrough here..

whurlston

9th December 2009, 03:58

Awesome, rica. Good luck!

@whurlston, I'll see if I can attach to the graph tomorrow and see what I get on one of my 48/24 LPCM tracks. That one reported 32 bit output.

You'll need to either add the DX_ExposeGraph=1 registry entry or just use DirectShow Filter Graph Spy (http://alax.info/blog/777) (look for the section of the page in a yellow text box for the download). You'll also need to use the 32 bit GraphStudio of course.

SamuriHL

9th December 2009, 04:11

I'm not able to get to their download site. But that looks like a nice thing to have installed.

whurlston

9th December 2009, 04:17

Check your PM on AVS

SamuriHL

9th December 2009, 04:26

Got it, thanks! Will give it a shot in the morning. I'd like to see what it's doing.

whurlston

9th December 2009, 05:40

It actually works on TMT as well ;)

Also, if you're interested: the code for it can be found at http://code.assembla.com/roatl-utilities/subversion/nodes/trunk/FilterGraphSpy

albain

9th December 2009, 10:57

Cheesegeezer

9th December 2009, 11:21

Albain,

Do you have an mpeg-ts splitter.ax i could have please.

Cheers

Dave

whurlston

9th December 2009, 11:35

MPC has a splitter in the standalone filters package.

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64

Cheesegeezer

9th December 2009, 11:46

Thanks for that, I'm trying to get my .ts files playing natively using mediabrowser in Windows 7 so I need to register the splitter for the TS containers.

Cheers for your help.

EDIT: it's the MPEGsplitter.ax that I want, isn't it?

rica

9th December 2009, 12:25

@Rica : you said earlier that ffdshow bitstream for THD/DTSHD works on Vista & 7. You meant only 7 right ?

Also, you guys are saying that you are able to use filtergraphspy with TMT and PDVD9 ?

So this means that you would be able to get the media structures (as for LPCM) on Vista and on (non working) HD audio formats ?

albain this is what i said on previous page:

The result of my trials for now: (over Ati 5*** series)

ffdshow and PDVD9 bitstream THD, DTSHD-MA, DTSHD-HR very well. (on Vista and 7)
ffdshow and PDVD9 can not bitstream LPCM for now. (on Vista and 7)
_ _ _ _ _

http://85.230.118.136/showthread.php?p=1350883#post1350883

whurlston

9th December 2009, 12:44

whurlston

9th December 2009, 12:47

Also, you guys are saying that you are able to use filtergraphspy with TMT and PDVD9 ?

So this means that you would be able to get the media structures (as for LPCM) on Vista and on (non working) HD audio formats ?

Yup, that's how I've been doing it all along. It does not work on WinDVD when playing Blu-ray but it does for TMT and PDVD. It does however work on WinDVD when playing regular DVDs.

I'll Vista on a machine later today.

SamuriHL

9th December 2009, 13:59

I plan on trying it out once I get my lazy self out of bed. :)

albain

9th December 2009, 14:20

albain this is what i said on previous page:

http://85.230.118.136/showthread.php?p=1350883#post1350883

Yes this is the post I was referring to.

So you're saying that HD bitstream is working on Vista too (because from your Vista logs I didn't see it working) ?

So(2) can we say that HD audio bitstream is okay now for DTS-HD and TrueHD on Vista & 7 ?
(for EAC3 it is a driver matter)

Yup, that's how I've been doing it all along. It does not work on WinDVD when playing Blu-ray but it does for TMT and PDVD. It does however work on WinDVD when playing regular DVDs.

I'll Vista on a machine later today.

Ok great. I may have a few ideas to improve the dumper tool if this is not possible

rica

9th December 2009, 15:18

So you're saying that HD bitstream is working on Vista too (because from your Vista logs I didn't see it working) ?

yes, absolutely :)

Browncoat

9th December 2009, 16:48

SamuriHL

9th December 2009, 16:56

Nice work! :)

albain

9th December 2009, 17:48

Awesome !

Great jobs guys :thanks:

I think we are close to the commit

albain

9th December 2009, 18:12

Yeah! PDVD9 doesn't crash with dumper if function "auto turn-off Aero" disabled! I hear sound, I see lights on avr and I have 60Mb bitstream.txt ))

DTS HD MA (realy working), Vista x86, Auzentech, PDVD9 2320
http://www.mediafire.com/?1zmjrzm3zxz

Dolby TrueHD
http://www.mediafire.com/?tmwyjj0mytm

So, to all, who have problems with PDVD+dumper:
Settings -> BluRay disk -> Advanced -> Windows Aero
Turn off checkbox.

What about this build (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3148_20091209_dbt_bitstream_beta50.exe) ?

You may have to try several audio renderers (directsound, waveout, MPC, and PowerDVD renderer)

To get PDVD renderer, you have to register cladr.ax in PDVD folder\AudioFilter

Sebastiii

9th December 2009, 18:29

Great a new build :)

Thx. I hope that i could test quickly :)
Seb.

albain

9th December 2009, 18:45

Great a new build :)

Thx. I hope that i could test quickly :)
Seb.

This is not for you Seb but for Auzentech owners, lol

FYI, here are the precious structures :

TRUEHD
Format type : {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
Sub type : {6AD2A952-9979-4DC4-B6E1-6F3C3137B342}

19:17:53-341 DumpWFEX
WAVEFORMATEX
wFormatTag : 49155
Channels : 8
Bits per sample : 16
Samples per second :192000
nBlockAlign : 16

DTSHD
Format type : {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
Sub type : {6AD2A952-9979-4DC4-B6E1-6F3C3137B342}

18:45:31-200 DumpWFEX
WAVEFORMATEX
wFormatTag : 49156
Channels : 2
Bits per sample : 16
Samples per second :96000
nBlockAlign : 4

The subtype is the same for DTSHD and TrueHD, but the formattag changes.
This is what is now implemented within FFDShow with trial feature of multiple media structures

Browncoat

9th December 2009, 19:51

beta 50. Vista x86. MPC-HC build 1404. Default sound device changed from "Speakers" to "Auzen HDMI out" (default and recomended for Auzen is Speakers) because not all renders allow to choose endpoint.

HD bitstreaming doesn't work at all (no lights, no sound, glitches with video) with all renders.
AC3 and DTS bitstreaming work ok. With all renders.
When all bitstream options in ffdshow checked, I can't change audio stream in mpc. So these options are unusable.

Seven x86
HD sound plays as pcm, format = settings in windows control panel. Stereo. 2.0 is only option for "HDMI out device" in windows CP.
AC3 and DTS ok. But after seek connection to avr lost. Sound with distortion, different audio streams can play (you can't choose, it's random ))). Everything messed up. If there is only 1 audio stream in file ac3 and dts sounds good, seeking works too. Bad splitter?

Dumper logs from Seven (bitstream in powerdvd works ok)
Dolby TrueHD
http://www.mediafire.com/?mdjw2wznm5t
DTS HD
http://www.mediafire.com/?donazmdlgg2

albain

9th December 2009, 20:44

beta 50. Vista x86. MPC-HC build 1404. Default sound device changed from "Speakers" to "Auzen HDMI out" (default and recomended for Auzen is Speakers) because not all renders allow to choose endpoint.

HD bitstreaming doesn't work at all (no lights, no sound, glitches with video) with all renders.
AC3 and DTS bitstreaming work ok. With all renders.
When all bitstream options in ffdshow checked, I can't change audio stream in mpc. So these options are unusable.

Seven x86
HD sound plays as pcm, format = settings in windows control panel. Stereo. 2.0 is only option for "HDMI out device" in windows CP.

Dumper logs from Seven (bitstream in powerdvd works ok)
Dolby TrueHD
http://www.mediafire.com/?mdjw2wznm5t
DTS HD
http://www.mediafire.com/?donazmdlgg2

Could you rather post me debugview logs instead of the dumper ?

Thanks

Browncoat

9th December 2009, 21:13

DTS HD MA debugview
http://www.mediafire.com/?o1yzyyjw2ey

albain

9th December 2009, 21:20

DTS HD MA debugview
http://www.mediafire.com/?o1yzyyjw2ey

Weird, this is the exact same structure that is sent by FFDShow and it is refused by the renderer.

Have you tried with cyberlink powerdvd renderer ?

00000342 0.21623321 [2380] Media Type Structure
00000343 0.21623321 [2380] Format type : FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
00000344 0.21623321 [2380] Sub type : {6AD2A952-9979-4DC4-B6E1-6F3C3137B342}
00000345 0.21623321 [2380]
00000346 0.21623321 [2380] WAVEFORMATEX :
00000347 0.21623321 [2380] wFormatTag : format 49156
00000348 0.21623321 [2380] Channels : 2
00000349 0.21623321 [2380] Bits per sample : 16
00000350 0.21623321 [2380] Samples per second : 96000
00000351 0.21623321 [2380] nBlockAlign : 4
00000352 0.21623321 [2380] nAvgBytesPerSec : 384000
00000353 0.21623321 [2380]
00000354 0.21634676 [2380] TaudioParser::getSupportedFormat no compatible format supported

Browncoat

9th December 2009, 21:30

Yes. No sound at all.

rica

9th December 2009, 23:18

So, to all, who have problems with PDVD+dumper:
Settings -> BluRay disk -> Advanced -> Windows Aero
Turn off checkbox.

Where is it? I can't see any option/checkbox there?

Or do you mean disabling Aero on Vista; not in application settings?

rica

10th December 2009, 00:32

Ati results:
LPCM 24/48 bitstreaming works via PDVD9; given it a go with Vista and 7/64 while 16 bit doesn't work in any case. (btw all of the LPCM BDs i have are 16/48.)
24 or 16 bit LPCM bitstreams detected as DD in both OS by ffdshow for the time being.
I can not give any true debug logs since PDVD application crashes at the beginning.
Then if i don't have logs how do i know if it's bitstreaming or not?

LPCM 16 bit never bitstreams on Vista or 7 with PDVD , you can check it with volume slide bar; volume always changes when you move it which means LPCM is decoded to PCM by Cyberlink decoder in PDVD and it's not a bitstream at all.

(volume slide bar or mixer settings never effect anything under the cases:

1) Kernel(XP) or WASAPI (Vista) bitperfect streaming_decoded audio in SW but goes directly to your AVR bypasssing MS mixer.

Or,

2) Bitstream _non-decoded compressed audio directly goes to your AVR bypassing MS mixer.)

So albain, (for now) you may edit the bitstreaming results for:

ati,
auzentech and
xonar.

_ _ _ _ _ _

Snowknight26

10th December 2009, 01:19

rica, there's an edit button for a reason (so you don't have to double post). ><

rica

10th December 2009, 01:24

rica, there's an edit button for a reason (so you don't have to double post). ><

i did use that button as well, don't worry :cool:

Browncoat

10th December 2009, 07:16

Or do you mean disabling Aero on Vista; not in application settings?
Not on Vista. In application settings. Tab visible only when player in stop mode and you have not open any file. In short, just run PDVD with shortcut in start menu.
More to say - in Seven PDVD still disables AERO (with that function turned off) but not crashing.

2albain
I'll make debug_view logs for all combinations format-output-OS, when I back home. Hope this will help. I don't know what more to do to help you.

2all
Is there any special options in ffdshow that help you to have working bitstream? Maybe I do something wrong.

albain

10th December 2009, 08:50

Not on Vista. In application settings. Tab visible only when player in stop mode and you have not open any file. In short, just run PDVD with shortcut in start menu.
More to say - in Seven PDVD still disables AERO (with that function turned off) but not crashing.

2albain
I'll make debug_view logs for all combinations format-output-OS, when I back home. Hope this will help. I don't know what more to do to help you.

2all
Is there any special options in ffdshow that help you to have working bitstream? Maybe I do something wrong.

I think I found why it does not work, it seems to be the same problem as the xonar : try to disable AC3 and DTS passthrough and let the others checked

albain

10th December 2009, 09:19

I also think that I found a solution for xonar/auzentech owners

I am testing it and I will publish a new build

Skinleech

10th December 2009, 09:21

I think I found why it does not work, it seems to be the same problem as the xonar : try to disable AC3 and DTS passthrough and let the others checked

FYI, I fixed that yesterday (eventually) by setting MPC to use the Arcsoft renderer as the default sound device, then added it as the preferred decoder.

This way, I can check all passthrough options, and THD/DTS-HD still work. Hopefully a similar solution can be used in the scenario above.

albain

10th December 2009, 09:36

Geat, but now with this build (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3148_20091210_dbt_bitstream_beta51.exe) you will be able to use other renderers

There is a new option in the output section to enable a compatibility mode with xonar/azuentech (and any other cards that don't accept the official media types)
Actually, FFDShow will publish a PCM media type in order to connect to the renderer, even if it is AC3/DTS and you have checked passthrough for those 2.
Then once the connection is made, ffdshow will dynamically change of media type by trying several media structures until one is accepted.
Of course, you have to make sure that your card is able to handle the bitstream format that you checked otherwise FFDShow will revert to PCM
Also, the decoders must be enabled in the codec section : AC3/DTS/EAC3/TrueHD

I still have doubts on the azuentech because :
- arcsoft renderer refuse regular structures (the one used for the ATI), so ffdshow skip it and try the xonar structure and the connection work
- PDVD with the last patch accept ATI structure and azuentech structure which make it compatible with both. As a result, ffdshow tries ATI structure => yes from the renderer, and won't have to try the azuentech one. So I hope that this will work anyway
I fear that the audio driver of the azuentech won't be able to deal with this structure

albain

10th December 2009, 09:49

Browncoat

10th December 2009, 10:55

do you think you could get the dumper working on LPCM now that we have confirmation that PDVD outputs LPCM ?
I have remux of BluRay "Black Symphony" by Within Temptation (in .mkv). There is LPCM 5.1 96/24 (13824 Kbps) track. I'll make BD iso and test it. I don't expect problems, but it will take some time. I'll be home in 6 hours.

piit

10th December 2009, 12:20

About LPCM now

@Rica & @Browncoat

do you think you could get the dumper working on LPCM now that we have confirmation that PDVD outputs LPCM ?
as Browncoat did with TrueHD/DTSHD on his azuentech and the aero trick, this should give the buffers content and the media structures

albain, could you point me at some post about the dumper or quickly explain how to use it? Tried LPCM yesterday on 48/24 soundtrack and it is working in PDVD9 indeed. I'd like to provide some dumps myself.

PS : I am about to commit the branch to the trunk once I'll have confirmation that the xonar/azuentech bitstream works fine with the last issues resolved

Great news!

Pete

albain

10th December 2009, 12:21

Ok thanks

@Skinleech : can check with the last build that you have bitstream working with AC3/DTS checked with all renderers ?

Thanks

Skinleech

10th December 2009, 13:40

Ok thanks

@Skinleech : can check with the last build that you have bitstream working with AC3/DTS checked with all renderers ?

Thanks

No problem. I will check when I am home from work and let you know.

Thanks.

mikelebron

10th December 2009, 14:56

Guys.. I have been following this with much enthusiasm and gratitude... The question I have is technically what is the reason why the ATI 4xxx and the new Nvidia 2xx cards can not support this method of implementation? What makes them different if PAP is not a factor and they both support the proper bandwidth, etc.?

dehati_paul

10th December 2009, 15:39

I also have the same question as mikelebron - why only ati 5xxx and not ati 4xxx, as one of the initial objectives of ths development was to make it work with ati 4xxx? Is it not possible due to hardware limitation?

albain

10th December 2009, 17:04

The initial expectations about bitstream support on 4xxx and nvidia similar cards are nearly hopeless now.

Technically, nothing prevents those cards to transport HD bitstream over HDMI but the limitation comes from the driver.

To make bitstream work I realized that the driver is very sensitive to the media structures you feed and this was not expected.
I thought at first that if you fed the right bitrate, frequency and a few other parameters any format would play without a glitch....

It appears that this is not the case : the audio driver performs some additional actions on the stream (I don't know which but I guess this includes the HDMI encapsulation) basing on those media structures (which define the format and its parameters) and it seems it needs to know with which format it is dealing with.

This is the reason why the DD+ bitstream does not work yet on the radeon 5xxx

Sorry guys

PS : however LPCM 24 bits should be doable on all cards (... 4xxx or even and higher)

jimwhite

10th December 2009, 17:06

I believe it is because the relevant drivers do not accept the HD audio formats. The ATI 5XXX and Auzentech and Xonar drivers are set up for bitstream so they will accept the HD audio streams.

:cool:

Edit: Albain - You're too quick :D

madshi

10th December 2009, 17:24

I don't think it's a driver problem, only. I think it's also a hardware limitation. If you look back in PC HDMI history, we had several stages:

1st generation: No audio output at all
2nd generation: AC3 & DTS bitstreaming, stereo PCM
3rd generation: AC3 & DTS bitstreaming, multichannel PCM
4th generation: AC3 & DTS bitstreaming, multichannel PCM, HD bitstreaming

I believe this whole mess was caused by hardware, and not by drivers. Finally, 5xxx puts an end to it.

kkozma

10th December 2009, 17:50

Is it possible to force the 5XXX drivers to load with a 4XXX card? I thought I remembered reading way back at the start of this that both cards used the same audio chip?

Anyways, now that my 5 days are up I just wanted to say awesome job guys! I've been reading and following along sine the very first mention. I'll keep holding out hope that the 4XXX cards will work. I'm very happy with my 4550.

Browncoat

10th December 2009, 17:53

with this build you will be able to use other renderers

beta51 logs, dts-hd
http://www.mediafire.com/?ntgoqn0taqy

All the same. HD plays as stereo pcm. One difference from beta50 - cyberlink render work like others now. (beta 50 = no sound with cyberlink render). Maybe it is a good idea - made a selector in ffdshow "I have xonar"/ "I have Auzen HT HD" :)

And about LPCM. I was very optimistic - I can't make BD with tsMuxeR 1.10.6 - it doesn't see lpcm tracks. I'll try tsremux, but last time i use it PDVD can not play BD made with tsremux. So, if anyone have 100% working .ISO with BD structure and HD lpcm track, please, upload it somewhere :)