ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[SamuriHL]

Is it possible to force the 5XXX drivers to load with a 4XXX card? I thought I remembered reading way back at the start of this that both cards used the same audio chip?

Anyways, now that my 5 days are up I just wanted to say awesome job guys! I've been reading and following along sine the very first mention. I'll keep holding out hope that the 4XXX cards will work. I'm very happy with my 4550.

It's an identical driver. There is no "4xxx" or "5xxx" driver. It's unified. So, no, there's nothing that can be done there, either.

[SamuriHL]

beta51 logs, dts-hd
http://www.mediafire.com/?ntgoqn0taqy

All the same. HD plays as stereo pcm. One difference from beta50 - cyberlink render work like others now. (beta 50 = no sound with cyberlink render). Maybe it is a good idea - made a selector in ffdshow "I have xonar"/ "I have Auzen HT HD" :)

And about LPCM. I was very optimistic - I can't make BD with tsMuxeR 1.10.6 - it doesn't see lpcm tracks. I'll try tsremux, but last time i use it PDVD can not play BD made with tsremux. So, if anyone have 100% working .ISO with BD structure and HD lpcm track, please, upload it somewhere :)

Try ClownBD and see if it'll do it for you. You have to run the LPCM track through another program....I forget the name. Maybe ClownBD does that for you.

[kkozma]

It's an identical driver. There is no "4xxx" or "5xxx" driver. It's unified. So, no, there's nothing that can be done there, either.

If the driver is exactly the same, then what's different about it? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a pain, I just don't understand.

[Browncoat]

Try ClownBD and see if it'll do it for you. You have to run the LPCM track through another program....I forget the name. Maybe ClownBD does that for you.
Thank you! eac3 was needed. ClownBD did everything by himself.

I can confirm - PDVD bitstreaming lpcm. And here is dumper log
http://www.mediafire.com/?4fqcyjlwmha


MediaInfo about audio track:

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : Blu-ray
Duration : 16s 920ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 13.8 Mbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R C, Rear: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 96.0 KHz
Resolution : 24 bits
Stream size : 27.9 MiB (30%)

[SamuriHL]

If the driver is exactly the same, then what's different about it? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a pain, I just don't understand.

The hardware is different, as Madshi pointed out. The driver knows what hardware it's running on and simply refuses the bitstream data types. It's why us 5xxx owners can't bitstream DD+ because the driver refuses that media type. You can see a list of what's supported by your driver/hardware combination by looking in the audio properties in Windows audio control panel. You'll find your 4xxx card likely says it supports DD/DTS/LPCM. That's about it. So the driver will refuse anything else. Just because it's a unified driver doesn't mean it acts the same on all hardware. It's just unified, that's all...meaning the code paths for all the hardware exist in the same driver.

[SamuriHL]

Thank you! eac3 was needed. ClownBD did everything by himself.

I can confirm - PDVD bitstreaming lpcm. And here is dumper log
http://www.mediafire.com/?4fqcyjlwmha


MediaInfo about audio track:

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : Blu-ray
Duration : 16s 920ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 13.8 Mbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R C, Rear: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 96.0 KHz
Resolution : 24 bits
Stream size : 27.9 MiB (30%)


Awesome! Nice work. :)

[whurlston]

albain, I finally got Vista downloaded from technet (My internet has been extremely slow). Do you still want me to test it with the 5xxx?

[kkozma]

The hardware is different, as Madshi pointed out. The driver knows what hardware it's running on and simply refuses the bitstream data types. It's why us 5xxx owners can't bitstream DD+ because the driver refuses that media type. You can see a list of what's supported by your driver/hardware combination by looking in the audio properties in Windows audio control panel. You'll find your 4xxx card likely says it supports DD/DTS/LPCM. That's about it. So the driver will refuse anything else. Just because it's a unified driver doesn't mean it acts the same on all hardware. It's just unified, that's all...meaning the code paths for all the hardware exist in the same driver.

Gotcha. Albain got this all working without even having the hardware, there HAS to be a way to trick it.

Where are those audio proprties listed in XP?

[Skinleech]

Ok thanks

@Skinleech : can check with the last build that you have bitstream working with AC3/DTS checked with all renderers ?

Thanks

Bad news albain. Both DTS-HD and Thd formats do not work without Arcsoft renderder. Itried default audio device & wave out. Thd was stereo or multichannel & played very jerkily. DTS-HDwas the same without stutters.

Question: I'm finding that eac3 is not great. One file I tried, my AVR would not recognise it & was flashing between +4 abd -27dialnorm on the display. Another file played very stuttery. Ffdshow seemed to recognise both streams.

I will get logs.

[jimwhite]

anybody tried albain's ffdshow bitstreaming on an Intel G45 ??? It has PAP so maybe it's drivers allow HD audio streams....

[whurlston]

Results for beta 49 on Vista with a 5770:

TrueHD: Works with Default WaveOut Renderer
DTS-HD: Default WaveOut Renderer flashes between LPCM and DTS-HD on receiver. No sound.

Default DirectSound Renderer results in decoded PCM on both formats.

Going to load PDVD to test and get logs/media structures.

[rica]

Not on Vista. In application settings. Tab visible only when player in stop mode and you have not open any file. In short, just run PDVD with shortcut in start menu.
More to say - in Seven PDVD still disables AERO (with that function turned off) but not crashing.


Thx but already tried both methods; never seen any option:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3938/pdvd9.th.png (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/pdvd9.png/)


About LPCM now

@Rica & @Browncoat

do you think you could get the dumper working on LPCM now that we have confirmation that PDVD outputs LPCM ?
as Browncoat did with TrueHD/DTSHD on his azuentech and the aero trick, this should give the buffers content and the media structures


I don't think i can get it working with any HD audio since i can't see any option as browncoat's??
Dunno if it appears with only Auzuntech HW?
Need confirmation from Ati users?

[rica]

Results for beta 49 on Vista with a 5770:

TrueHD: Works with Default WaveOut Renderer
DTS-HD: Default WaveOut Renderer flashes between LPCM and DTS-HD on receiver. No sound.

Default DirectSound Renderer results in decoded PCM on both formats.

Going to load PDVD to test and get logs/media structures.

Try with Direct Sound Device.

EDIT: sorry i've missed the second sentence but i say it must work; something is wrong.

[davinleeds]

Anything other than Directsound (using Star Trek for True HD) makes MPC play very slowly.

adding previously True HD and lpcm was very low, after trying wave then back to direct, audio is as should be (levels) but bitstream (true HD) is elusive.

[whurlston]

Try with Direct Sound Device.

EDIT: sorry i've missed the second sentence but i say it must work; something is wrong.

I've tested pretty thoroughly (GraphStudio). Using the DirectSound device results in no bitstreaming. Using WaveOut, it works for TrueHD.

DPRINTF logs: http://www.oshinetworks.com/DirectShow/ffdshow/Vista5770beta49.zip
PDVD media structures: http://www.oshinetworks.com/DirectShow/ffdshow/PDVD-VISTA.zip

[albain]

Hi again,

there is something I don't understand : SamuriHL reported that directsound works great on a radeon 5xxx on both TrueHD/DTSHD


Otherwise here is a new build for xonar/azuentech owners :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mmjyjnn3yum/ffdshow_rev3155_20091211_dbt_bitstream_beta51.exe

There is a new option in the output section to select your device

I don't feel very comfortable with this option because this is done only for those users.

It should be an hidden option or something that would appear in an advanced mode or something.

@clsid and other developers : if you have ideas, I am open

[whurlston]

Hi again,

there is something I don't understand : SamuriHL reported that directsound works great on a radeon 5xxx on both TrueHD/DTSHD


It works great on Win 7. I was just testing Vista for you.

Possibly the reason it doesn't work with the Vista directsound device is because the formats aren't listed devices supported formats in the audio device properties as they are on Win 7? Similar to the Win 7 DD+ issue?

[albain]

But on Vista too, Rica made some tests with Vista and he reported bitstream to work on both TrueHD and DTSHD

@rica, can you confirm this ?

Thanks

[clsid]

I haven't been following this discussion in much detail. Perhaps you could add some kind of "Are you sure? YES/NO" confirmation prompt that pops up whenever a user changes that device setting? In that prompt you could explain what/who the option is for, and how/when it should be used.

[renethx]

@whurlston, 49157 is new for me. DTS-HD HR?

[Browncoat]

@rica
Hm...
http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/091211/873/thumbs/UaNl3RgHrA.jpg (http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/28399505.html)

Maybe it's nvidia-only option. Also I use classic skin.

Lucky me, I alone can use dumper with PDVD :)

[SamuriHL]

Right, I use Default DirectSound on 7. I'm not about to downgrade to Vista. :p A couple pages back I made a list of the renderers for each audio format that worked/didn't work for me. All on 64 bit 7.

[albain]

Thanks whurlston, I think that it should work if you select the "Only Auzuentech media types" in the dropdown list.

The PDVD structures used for the ATI on Vista are the same as the Auzentech (!)

[albain]

I haven't been following this discussion in much detail. Perhaps you could add some kind of "Are you sure? YES/NO" confirmation prompt that pops up whenever a user changes that device setting? In that prompt you could explain what/who the option is for, and how/when it should be used.

Okay, this is what I did thanks

[Browncoat]

beta51, auzen types
http://www.mediafire.com/?njmjiyuz2mj
No changes :(
hd out as pcm. On all renders

[albain]

Hi all,

the situation is not very clear, can I have a little help ?

1/ ATI on windows 7 : HD audio bistream works fine

2/ ATI on Vista : bitstream doen't work through directsound. TrueHD work through waveout. DTSHD doesn't work at all. However, Rica (I think) reported that he made it work on Vista
=> To be confirmed
=> Awaited test : select xonar/auzentech in the output section and make a test again with the ATI

3/ xonar on windows 7/vista : HD audio bitstream work on the xonar and with the new device selection in output section of beta 51 it should work also with AC3/DTS passthrough checked


4/ Auzentech on windows 7/vista : updated the last beta 51 reproduces exactly the structures sent in PDVD but they are refused by the renderer (dsound or pdvd renderer). Besides the buffers look "encrypted". I am not sure this can be fixed. We'll see once I'll fix the connection part


Thanks again everyone. I am waiting for those last results to make the commit

[Browncoat]

Dumper + PDVD + DTS HD HR [auzentech]
http://www.mediafire.com/?zqvokjyzhnl

[albain]

Dumper + PDVD + DTS HD HR [auzentech]
http://www.mediafire.com/?zqvokjyzhnl

Thanks, the wformatTag changes between HR (49157) and MA but that is not just all : the buffers sent to the driver are completely different than the ones transmitted by FFDShow.
I don't recognize the stream at all as it it was completely encrypted ! (no IEC header, no DTS or DTSHD syncword)

Moreover, the connection shouldn't be refused by PDVD renderer, but I think this is fixable on that part.

I don't think I will be able to fix this easily (if it is fixable)

EDIT : same thing for TrueHD. TMT doesn't do this, this is really crazy. However, I still hope that we can make it work on your card unencrypted by fixing this connection refusal thing

[dehati_paul]

Hi all,

the situation is not very clear, can I have a little help ?

1/ ATI on windows 7 : HD audio bistream works fine

2/ ATI on Vista : bitstream doen't work through directsound. TrueHD work through waveout. DTSHD doesn't work at all. However, Rica (I think) reported that he made it work on Vista
=> To be confirmed
=> Awaited test : select xonar/auzentech in the output section and make a test again with the ATI

3/ xonar on windows 7/vista : HD audio bitstream work on the xonar and with the new device selection in output section of beta 51 it should work also with AC3/DTS passthrough checked


4/ Auzentech on windows 7/vista : updated the last beta 51 reproduces exactly the structures sent in PDVD but they are refused by the renderer (dsound or pdvd renderer). Besides the buffers look "encrypted". I am not sure this can be fixed. We'll see once I'll fix the connection part


Thanks again everyone. I am waiting for those last results to make the commit
@albain
Are we saying that HD bitstreaming doesn't work on Vista with ATI and directsound? Oh my!! I just bought an ATI 5750 with the hope of bitstreaming from my Vista/32 HTPC. I already had Xonar which was bitstreaming fine but only with Arcsoft audio renderer.

As a separate suggestion - is it possible to have output audio renderer selection in ffdshow (similar to MPC-HC)? Otherwise, I couldn't get ffdshow to play through arcsoft renderer outside MPC-HC and graphstudio.

[Sebastiii]

Hi all,

the situation is not very clear, can I have a little help ?

1/ ATI on windows 7 : HD audio bistream works fine

2/ ATI on Vista : bitstream doen't work through directsound. TrueHD work through waveout. DTSHD doesn't work at all. However, Rica (I think) reported that he made it work on Vista
=> To be confirmed
=> Awaited test : select xonar/auzentech in the output section and make a test again with the ATI

3/ xonar on windows 7/vista : HD audio bitstream work on the xonar and with the new device selection in output section of beta 51 it should work also with AC3/DTS passthrough checked


4/ Auzentech on windows 7/vista : updated the last beta 51 reproduces exactly the structures sent in PDVD but they are refused by the renderer (dsound or pdvd renderer). Besides the buffers look "encrypted". I am not sure this can be fixed. We'll see once I'll fix the connection part


Thanks again everyone. I am waiting for those last results to make the commit

Hi and sorry that i can't help you for now. Always waiting news for my AVR.

So i hope that testers can answer to your question :)
Everybody :) help albain :)

Thx :)

[albain]

No this is not sure. I need this to be confirmed because I am sure someone told me that bitstream on ATI works on vista

Otherwise like I said earlier the xonar should now behave correctly with the new option I added (but needs to be confirmed too)

Also I will remove the checks on the connection (a new option) : it seems like some renderers refuse the connection for a given media type but this media type can still be passed in with the buffers.
This may fix Vista and maybe the auzentech

[Skinleech]

Otherwise like I said earlier the xonar should now behave correctly with the new option I added (but needs to be confirmed too)

No goodresults for me albain. Without the arcsoft renderer I still just get PCM. All formats except eac3 are fine with Arcsoft though.

Eac3 just doesn't work. I either get corrupted audio or no playback. I willget logs once I have my new Win7 install prperly set up (i.e. logging tools & setting ffdshow to dump logs).

[albain]

Ok, please try this new one (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3155_20091211_dbt_bitstream_beta52.exe)

Please use this one for xonar & auzuentech owners by selecting your card.

[Skinleech]

I'll try that later. Thanks.

Eac3 log as per my post above. Just no idea what's not right: http://pastebin.com/m1ed5398

[rica]

But on Vista too, Rica made some tests with Vista and he reported bitstream to work on both TrueHD and DTSHD

@rica, can you confirm this ?

Thanks

I'm so sorry albain and whurlston and the other friends for the confusion.
You know we've made a lot of trials with both ffdshow and PDVD nowadays and i'm confused. :devil:

But @rica reminded me what the latest version of ffdshow gives bitstream on Vista while the later vesions can not:

46 is working for me very well with DTSHD and THD.

Thanks albain :)

47 and 49 trials:

Vista 32/SP2:

THD gives core ac3
DTSHD-MA gives core ac3 :p

So vladd, try with 46 via Direct Sound Device. :)

Returning back to 46 to confirm again.

(Tests have been done with Ati 5770 on Vista 32 SP2)

_ _ _ _ _ _

[RiotRay]

Auzentech user here!

I tried the latest ffdshow build, but could only get the core stream of a dts-hd file so far.
What renderer should I use?
Settings?

Usually I use ZoomPlayer with ReClock as the renderer.
TMT3 is installed, but I don't know how to install the arcsoft renderer.

thx

[albain]

Thank you Rica, I am relieved, I just have to find out what has been changed since !

To xonar/auzentech users : I am interested in debugview logs to digg into this, thks

[rica]

Thank you Rica, I am relieved, I just have to find out what has been changed since !


Thanks to you :)

Please give me the link of beta 46; sorry i've lost it.

[Sebastiii]

Hi rica :)

So :

ffdshow_rev3140_20091203_dbt_bitstream_beta46.exe (http://sebinternet.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3140_20091203_dbt_bitstream_beta46.exe)

:)

[rica]

Thanks a lot my friend.

[Skinleech]

To xonar/auzentech users : I am interested in debugview logs to digg into this, thks

Logs of anything in particular, or just a log of a stream that I know works?

[whurlston]

So vladd, try with 46 via Direct Sound Device. :)

Returning back to 46 to confirm again.

(Tests have been done with Ati 5770 on Vista 32 SP2)

_ _ _ _ _ _Ah ha. I was trying to figure out why we were getting different results. I'll test with 46 and post the results.

[SamuriHL]

Logs of anything in particular, or just a log of a stream that I know works?

1 of each stream type would probably be fantastic for him.

[rica]

Here: THD via 46 on Vista; MPC-HC used:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6851/testyh.png

[whurlston]

rica, can you right click the video window and select "Filters" and verify that MPC is using the "Default DirectSound device"? I suspect that you are actually using the MPC Audio Renderer.

Beta 46 gives me the same results as beta 49 with the exception of DTS-HD. Instead of dropping back to PCM decoding, it crashes GraphStudio. This is the same behaviour that was reported by SHL for beta 46:

@albain

Monsters Inc crashes MPC-HC with both DS and waveout renderers. I have no idea what's on this disc for codecs yet. This is one I rented and just stuck the disc in to see how it'd go. So far, not well. :)

This is why I suspect that MPC is using the MPC audio renderer:

Monsters Inc works with MPC Audio Renderer. I'll log it up as soon as I can get a chance. Not sure how to log the crash.

[SamuriHL]

Yup, that's the bug I found and squashed.

[whurlston]

That was why I started my Vista testing with beta 49. ;)

[SamuriHL]

Right, but, Albain put in some DTS-HD MA fix in 49, as well. I have no idea what that was for.

[whurlston]

Well ok, I guess albain contributed somewhat.

[SamuriHL]

My point was I don't know if what he changed has any bearing on the results you guys are getting or not. I guess we could go back a couple pages and try to find out what he changed but I honestly don't remember now. And it's late, so, I'm off to bed. :)