ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[Sebastiii]

Hi i have a little question about lipsync, i have a lipsync issue with my avr-355 about 300ms (the sound comes before video) so it's wierd, on avr, i have set adjust lipsync @ max 180 ms, but i think it doesn't change anything.
If i use HDMI ATI VIDEO directly to my VP, and take sound from my motherboard or Xonar -> lipsync issue is gone.

So the solution that i made is to use Delay option of ffdshow but it doesn't on bitstream sound, i must use AC3 encode on 5.1 multichannel to give AC3 to my AVR.

So my question is :) Is it possible to add an delay on Bitstream Sound ?
Thx and sorry for HS :)
Seb.

[rica]

Hi guys,
lets refresh the current status on the relationship between ffdshow and AVRs?
Denon needs tulli's override.
Yamaha doesn't?
Pio doesn't need after the latest ffdshow updates afaik?
Sony, what about Sony?

[nightfly]

Hi guys,
lets refresh the current status on the relationship between ffdshow and AVRs?
Denon needs tulli's override.
Yamaha doesn't?
Pio doesn't need after the latest ffdshow updates afaik?
Sony, what about Sony?

You mean using ATI graphics right?

As with my Nvidia graphics and Denon 988/2308 I have no issues.

[nightfly]

Hi :) for me haali don't work very good :(
Thx,
Seb.

Damn, I consistently mis-spell that splitter. Yes, Haali. Used to be my preferred splitter when using primarily DVDs - but for HD/BD, it didn't/doesn't work so well.

[rica]

You mean using ATI graphics right?

As with my Nvidia graphics and Denon 988/2308 I have no issues.

Yea, i meant Ati.
But i didn't understand what you mean with "you had no issues with nVidia" ; in HD bitstreaming or video processing? AFAIK it doesn't bitstream even i wish it would.

[Sebastiii]

Hi Rica,
With HARMAN, i have no PB for now except DTS-HR 7.1 detected in DTS-MA 5.1 with ffdshow.
About PDVD9 or TMT is ok :)
Thx,
Seb.

[albain]

Hi i have a little question about lipsync, i have a lipsync issue with my avr-355 about 300ms (the sound comes before video) so it's wierd, on avr, i have set adjust lipsync @ max 180 ms, but i think it doesn't change anything.
If i use HDMI ATI VIDEO directly to my VP, and take sound from my motherboard or Xonar -> lipsync issue is gone.

So the solution that i made is to use Delay option of ffdshow but it works on no bitstream sound, i must use AC3 encode on 5.1 multichannel to give AC3 to my AVR.

So my question is :) Is it possible to add an delay on Bitstream Sound ?
Thx and sorry for HS :)
Seb.

Hi,
do you have the problem with the xonar + TMT, or with PowerDVD + ATI ?

Indeed, the audio delay is not managed in bitstream mode but it could be but I rather think there is a problem somewhere :
1/ The sample may not have correctly muxed in the container (unless you play BR m2ts file directly)
2/ It may be a bug from the splitter that does not send the video and audio sample in a synchroneous way
3/ It may be a bug from the audio/video driver that does not encapsulate the audio & video streams correctly in the HDMI format. Maybe trying another audio renderer can solve the issue unless the problem is located onto the driver.
4/ Maybe timestamps have to be managed differently in FFDShow but I doubt that. For bitstream formats the renderer doesn't care about those.

[Andy o]

I get a video delay, but it's my system, and only noticeable with 24 Hz refresh. I fix it on the receiver as it doesn't do it by time interval, but by frames (5 frames on mine). So when set to 60 Hz, the delay time is adjusted and everything's always in sync.

Sebastiii does it happen always, with other formats, and bitstreaming with PowerDVD 9 or WinDVD 2010 if you have them?

[albain]

Hey,

I didn't be careful but : I saw that the first buffers that are sent by FFDShow are not present in TMT.
I thought that this was because TMT dropped some or started to stream with a delay but this is not the case.
The buffers that are sent by FFDShow at the beginning are not TrueHD buffers (!)

Sebastii could you send me a link to the startrek sample you used to get the logs ? Thanks
I am also interested in debugview logs with this same sample with FFDShow + MPC

PS : I have sent my receiver to repair, I'm "blind" again lol

[SamuriHL]

Hey,

I didn't be careful but : I saw that the first buffers that are sent by FFDShow are not present in TMT.
I thought that this was because TMT dropped some or started to stream with a delay but this is not the case.
The buffers that are sent by FFDShow at the beginning are not TrueHD buffers (!)

Sebastii could you send me a link to the startrek sample you used to get the logs ? Thanks
I am also interested in debugview logs with this same sample with FFDShow + MPC

PS : I have sent my receiver to repair, I'm "blind" again lol

Neat about the buffer. Seb will have to post the sample as I don't have it up there anymore. And that REALLY sucks about your receiver. I need to send mine out, too, but, I'll wait til I get back from vacation.

[jimwhite]

PS : I have sent my receiver to repair, I'm "blind" again lol

.... whence you do some of your best work!! ;)

[Sebastiii]

Hi all :)

Thx for answering me :)
I'll made test tonight to see and describe if i have the pb with Xonar, PDVD, 24Hz :)
But for me I think the problem is on all the videos that go through my AVR, because when my AVR goes to SAV, i have directly put HDMI on my VP and Sound on AVR via Digital Out -> No Delay.
I'll make this test to, put HDMI to AVR like now and sound from motherboard in Digital (not sound from HDMI like Xonar or HDMI ATI) and see more clearly to define my issue :)

Thx you :)
I upload the sample right now :)
I'll put link when is done and i'll made log for I am also interested in debugview logs with this same sample with FFDShow + MPC

And i hope that your receiver comes quickly and repair of course :)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

The link :) StarTrek_Clip (http://sebinternet.free.fr/StarTrek_Clip.rar)
Thx :)

[Sebastiii]

Hi again :)

The debugview log :)

Debugview-FFDshow-MPC (http://sebinternet.free.fr/Debugview-FFDshow-MPC.zip)
Bye :)

I go to test delay audio :)

[albain]

Merci Seb,

I am downloading them

[Sebastiii]

Je t'en prie :) Je test toujours my sound :)

So i think it was worst on 24Hz than 60Hz but i have always a delay, my delay don't comes from now but it's a long time that i have this. Solution No bitstream and reencode by ffdshow or reclock.
But now that bitstream works good :) héhé, i don't want to bypass it lol.
It's possible to add the same fonction of Delay easyly for bitstream too ? (it's like Lipsync software :)

Thx i'll test the beta of ATI 10.1 to see if dropout goes out too :)
Seb.

Edit: i have also with TMT and Sound on motherboard.

[Sebastiii]

Damien,

For debugview log, i have maybe something wrong.
I have made it with MPC-HC + FFDshow Audio and Directsound Renderer.
But maybe i must log with MPC-HC - FFDshow Audio with Xonar and Arcsoft Renderer ? (i think yes) i'm lost lol :)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

In case of :)

Debugview-FFDshow-MPC-Xonar-Arcsoft.zip (http://sebinternet.free.fr/Debugview-FFDshow-MPC-Xonar-Arcsoft.zip)

:)

[albain]

That's all okay, I think I understand what's going wrong

Here is a new build (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3200_20100112_dbt_thd_fix_beta1.exe)

Please tell me if this fixes the problem.

If it does not there is another thing that may need to be fixed

Now the buffers are aligned with TMT

[Sebastiii]

Great i'm testing right now :)
Big Thx as usual :)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Perfect :) Nickel :) No Dropout on the sample :)

You're succeed :) A very BIG Hat :)

Merci Damien :)

EDIT : Ouppss, i have tested the long sample (600Mo) and the dropout are again here :( Sorry for the bad news :(
EDIT2 : If i seek even on little sample th e sound don't comes quickly and after many dropout. (If i seek with PDVD it block and i must kill it) so maybe it's the sample lol
EDIT3 : With long Sample and PDVD i can seek and no dropout.

Very strange and hard to find !

[rica]

some new advices: (32 bit MPC over Win 7/64 ) with the latest 12 drivers.

load ffdshow rev. 3195.
load MPC-HC 1503.

Here are the setups:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2808/output.png (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/output.png/)

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7054/internal.png (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/internal.png/)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7200/externalw.png (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/externalw.png/)

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2246/audioswitcher.png (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/audioswitcher.png/)



And start playing your BD and pause.
Go to the menu > play > filters > ffdshow audio decoder and and adjust:

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7415/ffdshowa.png (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/ffdshowa.png/)



3200 didn't work for me btw.

[Jeremy Duncan]

I wonder if those people who have errors could test different uncompressed decoders from the codecs tab.
Go through each decoder in the uncompressed decoder list.

And set the output decoder to 16bit integer too. Maybe Rica could reply if this fixes the error he reported? :)

link to post about somebody saying the audio is 16bit not 24bit (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1212486&highlight=16bit), and if your setting the uncompressed decoder to 24bit and it's really 16bit then you might get a error, so go through each decoder to see if this helps correct your audio problem.

[albain]

Perfect :) Nickel :) No Dropout on the sample :)

You're succeed :) A very BIG Hat :)

Merci Damien :)

EDIT : Ouppss, i have tested the long sample (600Mo) and the dropout are again here :( Sorry for the bad news :(
EDIT2 : If i seek even on little sample th e sound don't comes quickly and after many dropout. (If i seek with PDVD it block and i must kill it) so maybe it's the sample lol
EDIT3 : With long Sample and PDVD i can seek and no dropout.

Very strange and hard to find !

The dropouts occur after a long time ?

Would it be possible to get dumper logs of the long sample then with dropouts in it (please note after how many seconds you get the dropouts) ?

I think t

[Sebastiii]

Hi :)
I'll made log between 12H00 and 13H00 and i post it, but i'm not @home i think the first drop is @ 47 seconds on long sample and on short when drop comes it's @ 17 seconds.
Thx,
Seb ;)

[Sebastiii]

Albain,

You want log from dumper tool with ATI and Directsound renderer in MPC-HC with ffdshow of course, is it right ?
Thx,
Seb.

Edit : I can't because AVR is in standby, so ATI HDMI not connected :(
I can make log with Xonar + Arcsoft in MPC-HC if you want :)

[albain]

Yes, I have the TMT + xonar logs already and they are 50 seconds duration so this is enough

Indeed I need the ATI + FFDShow logs

Thanks, this is not urgent though

Damien

[Sebastiii]

Hi,
do you have the problem with the xonar + TMT, or with PowerDVD + ATI ?

Indeed, the audio delay is not managed in bitstream mode but it could be but I rather think there is a problem somewhere :
1/ The sample may not have correctly muxed in the container (unless you play BR m2ts file directly)
2/ It may be a bug from the splitter that does not send the video and audio sample in a synchroneous way
3/ It may be a bug from the audio/video driver that does not encapsulate the audio & video streams correctly in the HDMI format. Maybe trying another audio renderer can solve the issue unless the problem is located onto the driver.
4/ Maybe timestamps have to be managed differently in FFDShow but I doubt that. For bitstream formats the renderer doesn't care about those.

I have made test and thank you for explain maybe the issue :)
I think it comes from AVR.
But like Andy O suggest, for me in 60hz the delay is short but is here.
In 24Hz the delay is more long a little more long like i said is about 250-300ms.

I hope that is a option that you can add finger in the nose :) lol

Thx,
Seb.

[albain]

I forgot, right, I will try to add that option

EDIT : you have the video delay in FFDShow video configuration > Queue & misc ("Queue et divers" for you)

The result will be the same

[Sebastiii]

Thx Albain ;)

I'll try that :) but i have to put time below 0 for video, i don't know if it's possible lol :)
Big thx again,
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Hi, it works with negative value :) Great :)
I don't know why (or maybe with Beta drivers ATI) i can't use Dumptool with MPC, ffdshow crash or maybe it with Rev 3200 ?
I'll try to find why.
Seb.

Edit : For dropout in long smaple, i have @ 45 and 51 secondes :)

[nightfly]

I just installed the "...thd_beta1" over my existing ffdshow install.

I did not observe really any impact on the ST09 drop out issues other than the 46 sec first drop out moved to ~41sec. Using either the MPC or the AS splitters, same results as before.

[nightfly]

Yea, i meant Ati.
But i didn't understand what you mean with "you had no issues with nVidia" ; in HD bitstreaming or video processing? AFAIK it doesn't bitstream even i wish it would.

Well, yes, I forgot to mention that my Xonar is in the loop:)

[Sebastiii]

I'm not sure that the log was good. I must be use with arcsoft Renderer otherwise it crash.

The log : 2010.01.13_bitstream MPC FFDSHOW ATI Arcsoft (http://sebinternet.free.fr/2010.01.13_bitstream.rar)

It doesn't crash if i set Only xonar (but i use ATI)
It doesn't crash if i use Arcsoft
It seems that it crash like PDVD :

Nom de l’application défaillante PowerDVD9.exe, version : 9.0.2302.0, horodatage : 0x4aee7d23
Nom du module défaillant : KERNELBASE.dll, version : 6.1.7600.16385, horodatage : 0x4a5bdaae
Code d’exception : 0x0eedfade
Décalage d’erreur : 0x00009617
ID du processus défaillant : 0x1700
Heure de début de l’application défaillante : 0x01ca9492e72a8cd1
Chemin d’accès de l’application défaillante : C:\Program Files\CyberLink\PowerDVD9\PowerDVD9.exe
Chemin d’accès du module défaillant: C:\Windows\system32\KERNELBASE.dll
ID de rapport : 2941c554-0086-11df-bc84-002618527746

Nom de l’application défaillante mplayerc.exe, version : 1.3.1453.0, horodatage : 0x4b376e1d
Nom du module défaillant : KERNELBASE.dll, version : 6.1.7600.16385, horodatage : 0x4a5bdaae
Code d’exception : 0x0eedfade
Décalage d’erreur : 0x00009617
ID du processus défaillant : 0x163c
Heure de début de l’application défaillante : 0x01ca9492c94c6684
Chemin d’accès de l’application défaillante : C:\Utils\MPC_homecinema_HD\mplayerc.exe
Chemin d’accès du module défaillant: C:\Windows\system32\KERNELBASE.dll
ID de rapport : 0cc1f726-0086-11df-bc84-002618527746


Maybe it is fixable :)
Seb.

[rica]

I don't know why (or maybe with Beta drivers ATI) i can't use Dumptool with MPC, ffdshow crash or maybe it with Rev 3200 ?


Test result is negative for me with my 5770 and 7/64.
3200 crashes. (this is why i suggested 3195)

[Sebastiii]

Hi Rica :)

I have tested with older version to beta54 and the same thing.
The other log that i made is with arcsoft + xonar -> don't crash, i have retested too.
It's something with ATI and Dumptool, but it's the same error with PDVD.

Thx :)

[rica]

seb, i didn't use dump tool yet but it crashes.

[rica]

Guys this might be interesting for some of you:
I've been awared i don't need tulli's override anymore (for my Denon) with 12 official drivers (by alone not tested with Realtek yet) for none of those SW:

PDVD9,
WinDVD Pro 2010,
ffdShow :)

(for ffdshow+MPC-HC setup refer to:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1363212#post1363212 )

BTW: Ati 5770 and 7/64 with Denon 1910...

EDIT: I've just checked even Realtek 2.39 over official 12 drivers work as well with all the players already mentioned without EDID override.

[Sebastiii]

Great news :)

[piit]

i don't need tulli's override anymore (for my Denon) with 12 official drivers

What do you mean by "12 official drivers"? Many people including me have tested with Catalyst 9.12 (first release or hotfix) and the override was still needed...

[albain]

Hi i have a little question about lipsync, i have a lipsync issue with my avr-355 about 300ms (the sound comes before video) so it's wierd, on avr, i have set adjust lipsync @ max 180 ms, but i think it doesn't change anything.
If i use HDMI ATI VIDEO directly to my VP, and take sound from my motherboard or Xonar -> lipsync issue is gone.

So the solution that i made is to use Delay option of ffdshow but it works on no bitstream sound, i must use AC3 encode on 5.1 multichannel to give AC3 to my AVR.

So my question is :) Is it possible to add an delay on Bitstream Sound ?
Thx and sorry for HS :)
Seb.

Yes I realized this after proposing this workaround

A delay setting should be added in the audio part.

Audio presets will do the rest do deal with different situations

[Sebastiii]

Thx Damien :)

[SamuriHL]

Have you figured out anything more on the ST 2009 problem?

[Sebastiii]

Hi SamuriHL, i try to log but i have an error with dumptool :(
So albain have not fixed entirely.
Thx,
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, no problem, Seb. Just an FYI, I'm going to be gone next week so I won't be around much or be able to help out in any way as I won't have access to my equipment.

[albain]

Seb, the dump you got me (2010.01.13.bitstream.rar) looks weird

I have seen no change with previous FFDShow version compared to my PC.

Could you retry with revision 3202 posted on xvidvideo.ru ?

Thanks

[Sebastiii]

Hi :)

Yes it's maybe because i use ARCSOFT Audio Renderer, if i use directsound or other renderer (for ex ATI HDMI Audio etc.) MPC-HC crash, and crash like PDVD.
I have post the report (LOG Crash (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1363455#post1363455)) but i don't know if usefull.
I have try with 3202 and even older it crash :(.
I think i never log with MPC-HC (Dumptool) and ATI, but only with MPC-HC (Dumptool) and Xonar and of course FFDSHOW :)

Big Thx,
Seb.

[albain]

Okay, it should not be a problem that you get logs from the xonar then (as long as FFDShow is in the loop) : the bitstream generated by FFDSHow is the same

Thanks

[Sebastiii]

Great :) cool :) i'll made log :)
Thanks :)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

This is log from MPC-HC, FFDSHOW Xonar and Arcsoft Renderer :)

Bitstream_long_ffdshow_xonar_arcsoft (http://sebinternet.free.fr/bitstream_long_ffdshow_xonar_arcsoft.rar) The upload is finish lol :)

Thanks,
Seb.