ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion [Archive] - Page 39

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 10:57

With MakeMKV he gives you some nifty options. You can add regular subs, but, he also gives you the option of extracting only the forced subs for each subtitle track. So you have the choice to do full subs, forced subs only, or both meaning it makes a separate sub track for forced. I've got to play with this some more. Haali seems to always pick the first sub track from what I've seen. I don't think there's a way to change the order of the subs so the forced track is first, though.

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 12:25

For anyone interested, I documented the steps SamuriHL used to get PGS subtitles in mkvs working:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/06/17/mkvmania-displaying-pgs-subtitles-in-mkvs/

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2010, 13:40

If somebody can oblige, I still would like a short PGS.MKV sample for testing with my Xtreamer and XtreamerPro hardware player...

Many thanks

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 14:40

I've still not been able to find a sample short enough with HD audio and PGS subs. The issue is you can't use anything to cut it down in size because it breaks the MKV. It has to be small enough to be done directly in MakeMKV without editing and I simply don't have anything that small in my collection.

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 14:58

If somebody can oblige, I still would like a short PGS.MKV sample for testing with my Xtreamer and XtreamerPro hardware player...

Many thanks

I had tested out my District 9 mkv with PGS subs with my Xtreamer a few months ago and it did not work. If I have a few minutes either today or tomorrow I will test again.

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2010, 15:18

I had tested out my District 9 mkv with PGS subs with my Xtreamer a few months ago and it did not work. If I have a few minutes either today or tomorrow I will test again.Sadly, I can see you have not posted anything on the Xtreamer forum since Nov 2009...

Some improvements have been made to subtitle parsing in the closed beta firmwares. Plus the XtreamerPro has twice the memory of the Xtreamer Mk1

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 15:29

Sadly, I can see you have not posted anything on the Xtreamer forum since Nov 2009...

Some improvements have been made to subtitle parsing in the closed beta firmwares. Plus the XtreamerPro has twice the memory of the Xtreamer Mk1

Well, when I tested out the mkv with the PGS my Xtreamer died on me lol (I will assume it was just coincidence). I only just got it back recently a fixed model with the "new" old chip. If I have a chance to test again I will gladly post my results on the Xtreamer forum. I am not privy to the beta testing so I cannot confirm what improvements have been made to the subtitle parsing.

OK, I think we have gotten Off Topic from the purpose of this thread so back to discussing HD Audio

Sebastiii

17th June 2010, 16:44

If somebody can oblige, I still would like a short PGS.MKV sample for testing with my Xtreamer and XtreamerPro hardware player...

Many thanks

Hi,

You can test with this sample :)

Sample PGS/MKV (http://www.mediafire.com/?dmyi2i5outt)

Bye :)

Sebastiii

17th June 2010, 16:45

For anyone interested, I documented the steps SamuriHL used to get PGS subtitles in mkvs working:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/06/17/mkvmania-displaying-pgs-subtitles-in-mkvs/

Thank you :)

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 16:50

Hi,

You can test with this sample :)

Sample PGS/MKV (http://www.mediafire.com/?dmyi2i5outt)

Bye :)

Wonderful, Seb! Thanks for posting that.

Sebastiii

17th June 2010, 17:11

You're welcome :)
I hope that it's a good sample to make test :)
Seb :)

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 17:38

Yea, Seb, that's an awesome file. Should allow the hardware streaming guys to check their equipment to see if this workflow will work for them. I'm now an MKV convert. With albain's incredible work on ffdshow for bitstreaming, dxva, and subtitles and with MakeMKV making it SO easy to create MKV's with embedded PGS subs (including stripping forced subs into a separate track) there's just no reason to use anything else for movie backups. I'm not looking back. :)

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 18:20

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2010, 18:23

Hi,

You can test with this sample :)

Sample PGS/MKV (http://www.mediafire.com/?dmyi2i5outt)Thanks Seb,

I tested the provided sample "as is" with my Xtreamer and although the PGS subtitles were detected, they were not rendered :(

I then wondered what MKVmerge GUI (v4.0.0) would make of the provided sample and was surprised to discover it was able to "detect" the PGS subtitles and re-mux the entire file. (Although direct input of PGS subtitles is not supported).

I tested the "re-muxed" MKV file with my Xtreamer, and again, although the PGS subtitles were detected, they were not rendered... Bummer!

Undaunted, I decided to re-mux the individual streams into the .M2TS container using TSremux GUI, and the PGS subtitles were detected and rendered :)

By-the-way, VLC player v1.1.0 RC was able to display the PGS subtitles for all three files.

Cheers all

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 18:28

BTW, if you like the idea of mkvmerge + MPC-HC + PGS subs this is entirely possible to do, as well. I guess I forgot to mention this configuration. If you extract the PGS subs seperately, you can drop them into a folder and ffdshow can be configured to check for them. So no splitting needed. This allows you to make MKV's with mkvmerge, use the MPC internal splitter, and still have PGS subs. Nice, yes? :)

@MikeEby

You could make an option in Another EAC3To GUI to extract the PGS files. I configure ffdshow to look in .\subtitles for the SUP files, for example. So in your UI, you could have an option to extract PGS files and give a relative path to the output MKV to put them in. Just a thought anyway. :)

AEAC actually does extract the PGS subtitles. If you want them separate you could either uncheck the "Delete All Work Files After MKVMerge" in the Options section or run the command line which will extract all the necessary files but not mux them together (if you look at this guide I put together towards the bottom you will see a screenshot of the working files - http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/04/13/mkv-mania-adding-a-secondary-audio-track-with-another-eac3to-gui/)

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 18:30

Thanks Seb,

I tested the provided sample "as is" with my Xtreamer and although the PGS subtitles were detected, they were not rendered :(

I then wondered what MKVmerge GUI (v4.0.0) would make of the provided sample and was surprised to discover it was able to "detect" the PGS subtitles and re-mux the entire file.

I tested the "re-muxed" MKV file with my Xtreamer, and again, although the PGS subtitles were detected, they were not rendered... Bummer!

Undaunted, I decided to re-mux the individual streams into the .M2TS container using TSremux GUI, and the PGS subtitles were detected and rendered :)

By-the-way, VLC player v1.1.0 RC was able to display the PGS subtitles for all three files.

Cheers all

The problem with m2ts container is that you lose chapter info which kinda bites. But I'm glad that worked for you!

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 18:31

AEAC actually does extract the PGS subtitles. If you want them separate you could either uncheck the "Delete All Work Files After MKVMerge" in the Options section or run the command line which will extract all the necessary files but not mux them together (if you look at this guide I put together towards the bottom you will see a screenshot of the working files - http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/04/13/mkv-mania-adding-a-secondary-audio-track-with-another-eac3to-gui/)

Ewww. I know you can not delete the working files, but, that's not what I was going for! :p LOL! I was hoping for another option to keep the PGS subs, name them "Movie(lang)" "Movie(lang)(2)" etc. No? :D

EDIT: Well I was just schooled on sub file naming conventions.

movie.lang#.sup

So, District9.eng.sup, District9.eng2.sup, etc.

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2010, 18:36

The problem with m2ts container is that you lose chapter info which kinda bites. But I'm glad that worked for you!Indeed...

However, given that I now have a viable PGS in .MKV sample, I will send this to the Xtreamer developers to see if they can get it to work.

The more samples the better though :)

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 18:37

Indeed...

However, given that I now have a viable PGS in .MKV sample, I will send this to the Xtreamer developers to see if they can get it to work.

The more samples the better though :)

Sweet! I hope they're able to get that working for you. Good luck!

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 18:38

Ewww. I know you can not delete the working files, but, that's not what I was going for! :p LOL! I was hoping for another option to keep the PGS subs, name them "Movie(lang)" "Movie(lang)(2)" etc. No? :D

I am sure Mike can come up with something. I know one issue with PGS subs was that MKVMerge didn't support, but according to SeeMoreDigital it appears that version 4.0 now supports PGS so who knows, maybe the sky is the limit. Mike's done a great job with AEAC and I am sure he still has more tricks up his sleeve:)

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 18:41

I am sure Mike can come up with something. I know one issue with PGS subs was that MKVMerge didn't support, but according to SeeMoreDigital it appears that version 4.0 now supports PGS so who knows, maybe the sky is the limit. Mike's done a great job with AEAC and I am sure he still has more tricks up his sleeve:)

No, that's incorrect. 4.0 will pass through the PGS subs if they're already in the original MKV you're using as the source. It will not allow you to add them if they aren't there already.

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 18:46

No, that's incorrect. 4.0 will pass through the PGS subs if they're already in the original MKV you're using as the source. It will not allow you to add them if they aren't there already.

Ahh...interesting. I wonder why add support to pass through but not add support to mux in????

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 18:49

I suspect it's more complicated to add muxing support for it. With passthrough it's already there. I'm just guessing. I really have no idea. :)

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2010, 20:02

I suspect it's more complicated to add muxing support for it. With passthrough it's already there. I'm just guessing. I really have no idea. :)I wonder if Mosu can shed some light.

I did a quick search of his thread and couldn't find anybody even requesting PGS subtitle support as a feature :eek:

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 20:05

I wonder if Mosu can shed some light.

I did a quick search of his thread and couldn't find anybody even requesting PGS subtitle support as a feature :eek:

Oh that's not good. I was under the assumption it had been asked for. Oops! :)

On the plus side, I just got this all working in 7MC, as well. I forgot about the Win7DSTweaker requirement of shutting off the built in MS codecs and using ffdshow dxva instead. Subs and bitstreaming all working fine. :D

Mosu

17th June 2010, 20:32

The support for reading PGS subs from Matroska files in mkvtoolnix was requested by one of the MakeMKV developers. I implemented that and extracting them in mkvextract. He argued that adding support for reading raw PGS files was not such a big priority as MakeMKV was the only app creating those files, and because MakeMKV already creates Matroska files.

mkvmerge will get raw PGS input support in the near future though.

Support for PGS in mkvmerge & mkvextract has been implemented at the end of 2009 with release 3.1.0.

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 20:35

Very very nice, Mosu! Thank you!! This will give people options. The embedded PGS in an MKV is really nice, the haali issue aside. Looking forward to it!

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2010, 20:51

Yes thanks Mosu...

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 21:19

@albain

Can you take a look at these logs when you get a moment?

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1408982&postcount=1877

What's really odd to me is that using Haali, my other machines that don't bitstream can decode the DTS core track just fine. It's just the bitstreaming that's an issue. I'm sure if you look at those logs you'll be able to tell why the bitstreaming is broken and maybe that'll help pinpoint the source of the problem. Maybe? :D Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you get a chance. Thanks!!

rica

17th June 2010, 22:02

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 22:25

But it doesn't support PGS subs yet, right? Plus I'm not entirely sure how to even use it. I'm guessing you have to set it up in graphstudio? And only 32 bit at the moment, yes?

rica

17th June 2010, 22:32

But it doesn't support PGS subs yet, right? Plus I'm not entirely sure how to even use it. I'm guessing you have to set it up in graphstudio? And only 32 bit at the moment, yes?

Correct, it's 32 bit and doesn't support PGS subs yet.
But they are working on 64 bit muxer and i think new versions will support both of those missing things.

BTW i'm using Seven/64 and i can use it on MPC-HC as well. (while playing...)

Solveig 32 and MPC-HC 32...

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 22:40

rica

17th June 2010, 23:34

That'd be good. Another option would be nice to have. Once it supports 64 bit and PGS subs I'll give it a try. Be curious to see if we can get it to split for WMP and 7MC, as well. I think we're getting there though.

I'm sure both features will be available in one month; i guess.
What ordinary users will need is gonna be a gui for the muxer.

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 23:36

I'm sure both features will be available in one month; i guess.
What ordinary users will need is gonna be a gui for the muxer.

Yea, that's guaranteed. Most users aren't going to be able to load it up in graphstudio and attach everything correctly. Hell, I'm not even sure I know exactly how to do it myself. I could probably stumble my way through it, but... :) A tray icon for the splitter wouldn't hurt, either. That's one of the things I like about Haali.

dbone1026

17th June 2010, 23:37

samuri, i'd suggest you not to loose much time with other mkv muxers.
Just give it a go with Solveig for now; you'll get core ac3 and core dts from THD+ac3 or DTSHD.
Or only HD audio, whatever you wish.

Any reason to use Solveig over the MPC splitter (Matroska)? Neither support PGS but aside from that MatroskaSplitter.ax has been rock solid. Always good to have choices

rica

17th June 2010, 23:44

Any reason to use Solveig over the MPC splitter (Matroska)? Neither support PGS but aside from that MatroskaSplitter.ax has been rock solid. Always good to have choices

I've been talking about muxer; no any other muxer is able to remux any thd+ac3 file into an mkv container
for now. So finally you can get ac3 core or dts core seperately as you wish via Solveig Splitter over ffdshow.

Pls have a look at this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1408828#post1408828

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 23:46

I've been talking about muxer; no any other muxer is able to remux any thd+ac3 file into an mkv container
for now. So finally you can get ac3 core or dts core seperately as you wish via Solveig Splitter over ffdshow.

Just as an FYI, MakeMKV has that ability.

rica

17th June 2010, 23:51

Just as an FYI, MakeMKV has that ability.

Really?

Thx, i'll give it a go.

SamuriHL

17th June 2010, 23:53

Yup. It's quite awesome. It allows you to extract the core audio as a separate track while keeping or removing the HD audio track. It can do similar things with subs (forced can be extracted to a separate sub track while keeping or removing the original). I really like it.

rica

18th June 2010, 00:09

First trial result: unsuccesful.

From an Iso file created by ImageBurn.

EDIT: sorry, i need Haali as well, correct?

SamuriHL

18th June 2010, 00:10

Nope, don't do that. :) It should be done only from an original disc. It will NOT work on something that's been touched by tsMuxer.

rica

18th June 2010, 00:12

Nope, don't do that. :) It should be done only from an original disc. It will NOT work on something that's been touched by tsMuxer.

So, forget it :p

EDIT: I removed makemkv.

SamuriHL

18th June 2010, 00:14

:D To each their own. :) I'm just happy that ffdshow can give us bitstreamed audio and dxva video and subs from these MKV's. I don't care how they're created as long as they work. :D

rica

18th June 2010, 00:21

Any reason to use Solveig over the MPC splitter (Matroska)? Neither support PGS but aside from that MatroskaSplitter.ax has been rock solid. Always good to have choices

I think Samuri gave the right answer:

Nope, don't do that. :) It should be done only from an original disc. It will NOT work on something that's been touched by tsMuxer.

SamuriHL

18th June 2010, 00:24

I've tried on many of my tsMuxer made movie only ISO's. Not one of them worked. It'll work from an unmodified, full ISO, but, not from a movie only ISO made from tsMuxer. No idea what's up with that.

rica

18th June 2010, 00:31

I've tried on many of my tsMuxer made movie only ISO's. Not one of them worked. It'll work from an unmodified, full ISO, but, not from a movie only ISO made from tsMuxer. No idea what's up with that.

I'd prefer to wait Solveig guys to implement a new version.
I made the comparison between Haali and Gabest before, as you remember?

No idea what's up with that.

I'd say it's a commercial SW finally.

SeeMoreDigital

18th June 2010, 07:58

Jeez, we're way off-topic now...

Perhaps one of the moderators should split our "non-audio" and "muxing" posts into a new thread :eek:

Mosu

18th June 2010, 11:43

mkvmerge will get raw PGS input support in the near future though.

And here's such a build: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/pre/mkvtoolnix-unicode-4.0.0-build20100618-270-setup.exe

Please direct any comment to the mkvtoolnix support thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120648). Bugs, ideas etc about mkvtoolnix are pretty off topic in this one. Thanks.

SamuriHL

18th June 2010, 14:18

And here's such a build: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/pre/mkvtoolnix-unicode-4.0.0-build20100618-270-setup.exe

Please direct any comment to the mkvtoolnix support thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120648). Bugs, ideas etc about mkvtoolnix are pretty off topic in this one. Thanks.

OMG, thank you! Will try it out and post feedback in the mkvtoolnix thread.