ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[SamuriHL]

Yup, I thought so. I'm setting up the dev env on my laptop now, as well. Now that I know what needs to be set it'll take maybe an hour at most.

[G_M_C]

Albain pls forget xonar for the time being and get a passive Ati card; it's on the market afaik.

No plz dont, i have a Xonar and would like to see that working too (like other xonar owners would like too).

[albain]

Hi,

those KS_**** constants are defined in the windows 7 sdk, this is the reason why you have compilations errors.

But I agree that they should be integrated into ffdshow headers for sdk 6.0 users.

However, everyone should migrate to sdk 7.0 as it is compatible with previous OS

@Rica
About Vista, I really don't understand why it wouldn't work apart that ATI's drivers may not be compatible with vista. Rica, I need logs to confirm this. Have you tried MPC wasapi renderer ? Also can you confirm that PDVD9 is bitstreaming to radeon 5xxx under vista with the new patch ?

I wish I had the powercolor passive 5750 but it won't be released in France until january :-(

@SamuriHL & whurlston
About DD+, I saw from the logs that the DD+ media type is refused by the renderer. It could be like for DTS HD or TrueHD where one field was wrong but I doubt it. Is DD+ working with PDVD9 and the ATI ?

Lastly, could someone test LPCM HD audio with LPCM checked in output section ? (with logs if it doesn't work)

Thanks !

PS : no, I won't drop the xonar I promise ;-)

EDIT : I have updated the headers for compilation with sdk 6 (revision 3146)

[Skinleech]

LPCM crashes straight away for me. Here's a log, let me know if you need more.

http://pastebin.com/m1e4d05c4

Also, no luck on Xonar with the waveout renderer. THis was in Graphstudio. Basic question perhaps, but how can I select it in MPC-HC?

[rica]

@Rica
About Vista, I really don't understand why it wouldn't work apart that ATI's drivers may not be compatible with vista. Rica, I need logs to confirm this. Have you tried MPC wasapi renderer ? Also can you confirm that PDVD9 is bitstreaming to radeon 5xxx under vista with the new patch ?


I can confirm PDVD9 patch is working on Vista as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17628400#post17628400

I'll make the logs ASAP. (no i haven't tried MPC Renderer yet.)

[SamuriHL]

Hi,

those KS_**** constants are defined in the windows 7 sdk, this is the reason why you have compilations errors.

But I agree that they should be integrated into ffdshow headers for sdk 6.0 users.

However, everyone should migrate to sdk 7.0 as it is compatible with previous OS

@Rica
About Vista, I really don't understand why it wouldn't work apart that ATI's drivers may not be compatible with vista. Rica, I need logs to confirm this. Have you tried MPC wasapi renderer ? Also can you confirm that PDVD9 is bitstreaming to radeon 5xxx under vista with the new patch ?

I wish I had the powercolor passive 5750 but it won't be released in France until january :-(

@SamuriHL & whurlston
About DD+, I saw from the logs that the DD+ media type is refused by the renderer. It could be like for DTS HD or TrueHD where one field was wrong but I doubt it. Is DD+ working with PDVD9 and the ATI ?

Lastly, could someone test LPCM HD audio with LPCM checked in output section ? (with logs if it doesn't work)

Thanks !

PS : no, I won't drop the xonar I promise ;-)

EDIT : I have updated the headers for compilation with sdk 6 (revision 3146)

I don't even have the Windows 7 SDK installed. It has 5 and 6.0a which is all VS 2008 installed. I should probably go find the Windows 7.0 SDK and get that installed.

We believe DD+ is not accepted by the renderer because the driver doesn't support it. I'll have to master an ISO to verify this with the EAC3 sample I have and try it in PDVD9. I'm almost positive it'll decode it to LPCM, as well.

LPCM has been on my list of things to do. Just wanted to get that bug out of the way and get set up to build on my laptop, as well. I'll see if I have a 48/24 LPCM movie kicking around. Ratatouille maybe? Kill Bill has 48/16. I think Hellboy has 48/16, as well.

[SamuriHL]

Ratatouille is 48/24, however, using the LPCM checkbox in ffdshow-tryout was not good.

http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d5ca2c590

I got no audio at all while capturing the log. When I tried it without logging it played in super slow stutter mode. Here's the log from setting it to 24.

http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d2f8d7936

The difficulty here is that I have no way of knowing if it's really outputting 24 bit like it says it is. My receiver won't tell me that information, and using reclock as the renderer is not going to work as it doesn't like outputting 24 bit to the ATI driver. So I'm not really sure how we test this correctly.

[albain]

I think that something is wrong with the media structure sent by ffdshow.

However, LPCM is already handled in FFDShow : it was inserted by Haruhiko for DVD audio which is LPCM 24 bits HD, the same as bluray hold.

Has anyone already used this feature ?

I will post this same question to ffdshow thread.

Otherwise the alternative is to use the dumper tool with PowerDVD9 on LPCM tracks.

Sebastii, are you around ?

[SamuriHL]

Don't make the assumption that PDVD9 handles LPCM all that well, either. :) What I mean is that for 48/24 and higher, it "seems" to handle things correctly by bypassing the windows audio crap. 48/16, however, gets sent through the windows audio stuff just like downsampled and decoded TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. So, be careful on what you choose to dump with. Make sure it's 48/24 or above.

[Sebastiii]

Hi, i'm here yes :)

i read :) but i don't know how i can help, say me what i can do :)
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

You'll need to run the dump tool on PDVD9 while playing a 48/24 or higher LPCM track. Make sure PDVD9 is set to non-decoded HD audio in the audio settings. Even for this LPCM track. Who knows, you might get lucky and get some useful info out of PDVD9 that way.

[SamuriHL]

@albain

I've tried different renderers now and when it "works" (as in gives any audio at all) I get static over the top of the playing track. WaveOut and shockingly ArcSoft renderers seem to accept the LPCM checkbox. Don't know if that helps us at all.

[albain]

@albain

I've tried different renderers now and when it "works" (as in gives any audio at all) I get static over the top of the playing track. WaveOut and shockingly ArcSoft renderers seem to accept the LPCM checkbox. Don't know if that helps us at all.

I suspect that LPCM streams need to be encapsulated in IEC headers as for AC3/DTS/TrueHD/DTSHD/EAC3 streams.

EDIT : actually, the header is different. I have the docs but there seems to be some bunch of work

Does Totalmedia theatre supports high definition LPCM ?

If yes, it would be VERY interesting to have dumper logs from Arcsoft : Sebastii again :-)

[SamuriHL]

I suspect that LPCM streams need to be encapsulated in IEC headers as for AC3/DTS/TrueHD/DTSHD/EAC3 streams.

That's a good possibility. TMT3 completely blows LPCM playback even with a Xonar as it relies on the stupid Xonar CP to set the bitrate. So if you set it correctly, awesome, it matches and no down/upsampling occurs. If you get it wrong so that it doesn't match the source, then you get it down/upsampled to whatever you set in the Xonar CP. PDVD9 appears to bypass this issue for 48/24 and above by skipping the windows audio crap. I'll give them credit. We've asked them to change this for 48/16 when set to non-decoded HD audio, as well. Not sure how much traction that request will get.

[mrcorbo]

Does it matter if your source is LPCM?

Outputting a decoded TrueHD track (48/16) as LPCM through DirectSound gives the same results SHL described above with slowed audio and static. Audio is sent through the windows mixer (my receiver confirms audio is being sent at my windows default 192/24).

Normally when using the MPC renderer, this track when decoded will play back correctly as PCM at the source frequency and bit-depth (one of the few cases where the MPC renderer works for PCM). When checking LPCM output, the same issues are present as when using DirectSound, though the frequency and bit-depth still match the source on my receiver. I can go back and forth between 16-bit int and LPCM during playback and the audio will go from normal to distorted.

[SamuriHL]

That sounds about right. I don't think it matters if the source is originally LPCM or not as long as it's getting decoded to it. So yea, that's a valid test. You're saying MPC renderer keeps the source bitrate when set to LPCM? (Yes, I understand it's all static like what I get, but, you're at least getting the right bitrate?) I should crank mine up to 192 in windows audio and see what my receiver reports. Duh. Hadn't thought of doing that. Yes, I'm an idiot. :)

[SamuriHL]

Ok, tried that. I don't get the same results as you. It's ALWAYS going through windows audio for me. Even with MPC audio renderer. Um, what? How's that possible?!?!? But it sets it to the rate that I have windows set to, NOT the source. I tried with LPCM setting and setting it to 24 directly in the ffdshow settings. I think albain may be right that it needs to be encapsulated.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

This log from LPCM 7.1 96Khz/24 from 2 muxer in case of :

Log TMT and LPCM (TSMUXER) (http://sebinternet.free.fr/LPCM96K-24-TSMUXER-bitstream.zip)

Log TMT and LPCM (TSREMUXER) (http://sebinternet.free.fr/LPCM96k-24-TSREMUXER-bitstream.zip)

I hope it's good.
If someone can give me sample in 48/24 and 48/16 to log :)

Thx.
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

Wait, you logged it from TMT? That's not going to help in this case I think. It has to be logged from PDVD9.

[Sebastiii]

You'll need to run the dump tool on PDVD9 while playing a 48/24 or higher LPCM track. Make sure PDVD9 is set to non-decoded HD audio in the audio settings. Even for this LPCM track. Who knows, you might get lucky and get some useful info out of PDVD9 that way.

SamuriHL, i can't get non-decoded HD audio because ATI is connected on VP (not AVR) so i have only 2 channels in Windows so i can't get this option.

I will try other thing but .....

I can have log from TMT with Xonar so :)
Thx Seb.

Maybe i can overide EDID to simulate AVR for ATI ? but i'll need help for this :)

[Sebastiii]

Also, on TMT i get 96K/24 (on Display) even if Xonar CP is on 192Khz.
Maybe log has to be usefull :) (i hope so)
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

And EDID override won't help here, no. The problem is the TMT/Xonar combination sucks in that you *MUST* match the Xonar CP to the source or you will get the audio up/downsampled based on how high or low you set it.

[Sebastiii]

Sorry my bad explain, i talking about EDID to fake ATI HDMI (sound) to 7.1 speakers.

So maybe with it i can select option in PDVD9 and maybe log :).

[SamuriHL]

I know what you were asking to do. It won't work. The EDID is only part of the PAP chain.

[rica]

albain,

I can not connect MPC audio renderer; it crashes graphstudio or MPC-HC.

Here is the graph behind the MPC-HC:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2922/testa.th.png (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/testa.png/)

And here are the logs:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2kwhm5yoljg

One is DTSHDMA and the other one is THD.
When i play both files i get DolbyDigital light on my receiver on Vista32 SP2.

[renethx]

It's ALWAYS going through windows audio for me. Even with MPC audio renderer. Um, what? How's that possible?!?!?
Going through Window audio perhaps means MPC Audio Renderer is not loaded (it supports only WASAPI exclusive right now). To always load it (with any DirectShow player), merge the following to the registry:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\CLSID\{79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}\InprocServer32]
@="C:\\Program Files\\DirectShow Filters\\MpcAudioRendererFilter.ax"
"ThreadingModel"="Both"

where "C:\Program Files\DirectShow Filters" is the directory MpcAudioRendererFilter.ax is located. Then Default DirectSound Device will be MpcAudioRendererFilter.ax. To restore the Windows original renderer (quartz.dll), merge

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\CLSID\{79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}\InprocServer32]
@="C:\\Windows\\system32\\quartz.dll"
"ThreadingModel"="Both"

BTW the above method is one way to load MPC Audio Renderer with the 7MC internal player. (Is there a better way?) Here are some results I obtained.

MpcAudioRendererFilter.ax = Default DirectSound Device: I tested with the 7MC internal player and GraphStudio, and various M2TS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16951614#post16951614) and MKV files.

"LPCM" is checked in ffdshow: ffdshow always connects to MPC Audio Renderer. But I get sounds only from the first file with a HD compressed audio track, no sound from the next file. Static from a LPCM/FLAC track.
"16 bit integer" is checked in ffdshow: ffdshow may not be loaded for a HD compressed audio track (DScaler is loaded in my case inside GraphStudio). ffdshow is loaded and audio streams (downsampled to 16 bit) go through WASAPI exclusive for LPCM/FLAC.
quartz.dll = Default DirectSound Device, and "16 bit integer" is checked in ffdshow: 7MC internal player works fine (LPCM always goes through Windows audio engine, however, as 7MC neglects the merit value), and Graph Studio works fine (Default DirectSound Device is always loaded for a HD audio compressed track [I am not sure why; Rica observed the same] and MPC Audio Renderer [as its merit value is higher than Default DirectSound Device] is loaded for a uncompressed audio track [hence through WASAPI exclusive mode]).

[rica]

rene,

I didn't make any modification on V32:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6898/already.th.png (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/already.png/)

And:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1646/crash.th.png (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/crash.png/)



_ _ _ _ _

[SamuriHL]

I just did some testing. I set my windows audio settings to 192/24. This disables audyssey on my receiver which is a good thing for this test. Ratatouille is 48/24, so, I loaded that up in PDVD9 with the non-decoded HD audio setting. What I found is very very interesting. They are upsampling 24 bit to 32. It would really appear that the ATI cards can NOT accept 24 bit audio. Anything that claims to be sending 24 is either up or downsampling it to 32 or 16 respectively. albain, I recommend upsampling to 32...basically just pad the 24 to 32. It won't affect the sound quality. This should only be needed for ATI.

[rica]

And here are the logs captured while ffdshow is working on 7/64.(it works perfectly)

http://www.mediafire.com/?zwmzi4wmdzq

But MPC Audio Renderer doesn't work at all even on 7/64.

I've done those both tests with MPCAudiorenderer.ax inside the standalone filters_svn1393_x86 package.

[rica]

I've done those both tests with MPCAudiorenderer.ax inside the standalone filters_svn1393_x86 package.

I think the issue is related with splitter.

I gave it a go with DVBViewer 4.2.1.0 on Vista and played DVD. (BD/Angels and Demons)

I got at least core dts from DTSHD-MA via default direct sound device or MPC Audio renderer on vista while gabest gave me DD info on display with default direct sound and a crash with MPCAudio renderer.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9466/dvbv.th.png (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/dvbv.png/)




_ _ _ _ _ _ _

[albain]

Hi,

thank you Sebastii, I got your logs. You used the "TEST_7.1_LPCM.m2ts" sample which is 217.763 ko, right ?

Concerning PDVD9, it is a nogo as the dumper is unable to get the traces. Something like a protected process I guess

We have to get them working under TMT3, but I guess this is the case here ?

Also, let me bring a little precision on LPCM support : the goal here is to make a sort of passthrough of LPCM streams to the audio renderer with of course no interfere of the OS.

We are not talking about converting PCM streams to LPCM, I don't think this would be usesful

Last thing, I saw somewhere that LPCM is limited to 24 bits on bluray tracks. May there be 32 bits ? I am not sure. Maybe we misunderstand PCM/LPCM

EDIT : @RICA, there is indeed a problem with Vista, the timestamps are negative. This should be easily fixable

[whurlston]

SHL/albain. I'm remuxing my Last Samurai (fittingly enough) HD DVD to BD format now. TSMuxer would not recognise the EAC3 track in my m2ts test file. I'll have the PDVD results as soon as it finishes.

[SamuriHL]

Hi,

thank you Sebastii, I got your logs. You used the "TEST_7.1_LPCM.m2ts" sample which is 217.763 ko, right ?

Concerning PDVD9, it is a nogo as the dumper is unable to get the traces. Something like a protected process I guess

We have to get them working under TMT3, but I guess this is the case here ?

Also, let me bring a little precision on LPCM support : the goal here is to make a sort of passthrough of LPCM streams to the audio renderer with of course no interfere of the OS.

We are not talking about converting PCM streams to LPCM, I don't think this would be usesful

Last thing, I saw somewhere that LPCM is limited to 24 bits on bluray tracks. May there be 32 bits ? I am not sure. Maybe we misunderstand PCM/LPCM

Right, I understand and applaud the goal. However, there should be no reason that a TrueHD track decoded to LPCM wouldn't work. He was just using that as a test of LPCM, that's all. In reality they'd just bitstream the TrueHD, obviously. :) I don't know if LPCM is limited to 24 bit on BD. I don't have any that are higher. But I know that PDVD9 is outputting my 48/24 track as 48/32. But, that does confirm that they aren't going through the OS on tracks that are 48/24 or higher. We've asked them to change that for 48/16 when non-decoded HD is selected, as well. Let's hope they do it. In any case, the goal you have is the same...to "bitstream" LPCM to the receiver untouched by the OS. If they're sending 32 bit, there's a reason for it. And most likely they're padding the 24 bit stream whch should leave the audio itself untouched. Something like this may be needed in ffdshow, as well.

[SamuriHL]

SHL/albain. I'm remuxing my Last Samurai (fittingly enough) HD DVD to BD format now. TSMuxer would not recognise the EAC3 track in my m2ts test file. I'll have the PDVD results as soon as it finishes.

I gave that one to my wife so I only have the BD kicking around now. I'm sure I have some EAC3 tracks on HD DVD kicking around though.

[rica]

EDIT : @RICA, there is indeed a problem with Vista, the timestamps are negative. This should be easily fixable

Goodnews then :)

Now, i'll make some LPCM trials.

[whurlston]

PDVD will not bitstream DD+ with the ATI 5xxx. Tested with TLS, DD+ 6140Kbps. My AVR confirms that it is only receiving standard AC3 640Kbps. I think we will have to hold off on DD+ for the ATI (if they ever enable it in the drivers).

[SamuriHL]

That would be a driver limitation.

[albain]

albain,

I can not connect MPC audio renderer; it crashes graphstudio or MPC-HC.

Here is the graph behind the MPC-HC:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2922/testa.th.png (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/testa.png/)

And here are the logs:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2kwhm5yoljg

One is DTSHDMA and the other one is THD.
When i play both files i get DolbyDigital light on my receiver on Vista32 SP2.

I thought wrong at first. Actually the traces you gave me tell me that TrueHD is decoded as AC3 and DTSHD as DTS.
Do you have earlier traces ? (before TffdshowDecAudioInputPin::NewSegment)

@Sebastii : your logs are fine for me, the uncompressed stream sent to the renderer is 24 bits at 96000hz

[rica]

Now i'm trying again, pls hold on.

[rica]

I thought wrong at first. Actually the traces you gave me tell me that TrueHD is decoded as AC3 and DTSHD as DTS.
Do you have earlier traces ? (before TffdshowDecAudioInputPin::NewSegment)


Weird, but i get DD info on my AVR's display :mad:

http://www.mediafire.com/?meatzinidzq

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

thank you Sebastii, I got your logs. You used the "TEST_7.1_LPCM.m2ts" sample which is 217.763 ko, right ?

The name is the same but the size not, the mine i've got is : 241 MB (253 569 024 bytes). I made Bluray structure with the 2 softs to play via TMT.


We have to get them working under TMT3, but I guess this is the case here ?

On TMT it's works, but i can't say the output without my AVR HD (so no connect on HDMI).

I hope that it help ;) and if we can got other sample to try :)
Big Thx.

[albain]

Weird, but i get DD info on my AVR's display :mad:

http://www.mediafire.com/?meatzinidzq


???? The same media structure that is accepted on 7 is refused on Vista. Do you have the last ATI 9.11 driver ?
I see no other option than calling our good friend Sebastii with dumper logs from PDVD9 patched on Vista (I think he already did it but on 7 or Vista ?)

00000468 61.17883301 [5596] TaudioParser::checkOutputFormat for codec bitstream DTS-HD with sample format 512
00000469 61.17890549 [5596] Media Type Structure
00000470 61.17890549 [5596] Format type : FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
00000471 61.17890549 [5596] Sub type : MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM
00000472 61.17890549 [5596]
00000473 61.17890549 [5596] WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE :
00000474 61.17890549 [5596] subFormat : KSDATAFORMAT_SUBTYPE_IEC61937_DTS_HD
00000475 61.17890549 [5596]
00000476 61.17890549 [5596] wSamplesPerBlock : 16
00000477 61.17890549 [5596] Valid bits per sample : 16
00000478 61.17890549 [5596] dwChannelMask : 255
00000479 61.17890549 [5596]
00000480 61.17890549 [5596] WAVEFORMATEX :
00000481 61.17890549 [5596] wFormatTag : WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE
00000482 61.17890549 [5596] Channels : 8
00000483 61.17890549 [5596] Bits per sample : 16
00000484 61.17890549 [5596] Samples per second : 192000
00000485 61.17890549 [5596] nBlockAlign : 16
00000486 61.17890549 [5596] nAvgBytesPerSec : 3072000
00000487 61.17890549 [5596]
00000488 61.17894745 [5596] TaudioParser::getSupportedFormat format not supported, trying another one

About LPCM, thanks again Seb, I will work on this tomorrow if I have time (which is not sure)

[rica]

???? The same media structure that is accepted on 7 is refused on Vista. Do you have the last ATI 9.11 driver ?


Sure i have , otherwise it not possible to get bitstream over PDVD9 :)
I'll get some debug logs with PDVD on Vista.
I'll be back.

[Sebastiii]

@Albain :) Cool great that LPCM Log is useful :)
Yes i have try on WIN7 Dump tool with PDVD not on Vista.
But i'll test it when my AVR come back because without it i can't get option to bitstream.

I'll reinstall clean Vista OS for test and be prepare to try it :).

Thx,
Seb.

[albain]

Thanks again Seb, as always

[Sebastiii]

Thanks to you ;)
You're Welcome :)

[Skinleech]

FYI guys, I'd noted previously that I was still receiving stuttering on some titles - I've fixed it now. Oddly, when the Xonar CP is running in the task bar it gives me stutters on both thd and DTS-HD sources, if I close it, the stutters are gone.

I'm sure it's a setup issue on my side, but FYI for anyone else that's having a similar issue.

[rica]

The same DTSHD-MA from the disk. There are 3 thrailers at the beginning.
PDVD9 on Vista and i get HD Audio light on AVR Display. (DTSHD-MA)
Here is the log:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmmwummjzem


_ _ _

[davinleeds]

Thanks SamuriHL for your help offer. So far the closest I've gotten is DTS HD MA with MPC HC 1393 and FFdshow beta 49. True HD is still Multichannel and low audio output. The DTS HD MA is at the proper level. I got this by unchecking allow direct to file output - it was checked by default in FFdshow under output. How is the TrueHD or DTS HSMA chosen? Some disks have lpcm and True or MA. Anyway, great work everyone. What an achievement! Working on an HD PVR now.

[rica]

Here is the debug log from an original LPCM BD on Vista via PDVD9:

http://www.mediafire.com/?nyiunyjzvgy



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