ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[vip]

I can confirm the issue with HD audio track the The_Iceman talked about, except the part of bitstreaming because i dont use it. In my case bug appears when i use software decoding of ThueHD in ffdshow. After switching from AC3 track to TrueHD i have no sound. If the TrueHD track is a first audio track then decoding works.

[STaRGaZeR]

The_Iceman and vip, please test this build to see if your problems with audio switching are gone: http://www.mediafire.com/?lyzbwyiywfq

Test it with software decoding and bitstreaming if possible.

[vip]

Thanks STaRGaZeR, i'll try it this evening. I cant test the bitstreaming because i dont have any hdmi capable hardware, but i'll test software decoding.

[The_Iceman]

@STaRGaZeR: Your posted build works fine with bitstreaming!
I can get proper bitstreaming after channel change!

Thanks!

[Blight]

Bug Report:
Playing Avatar (original decrypted Blu-Ray, not a re-encode, english track), when seeking directly after creating the graph, there's no audio and the property page shows no audio statistics, no issue when playing from beginning.

The graph consists of MPC mpeg source connected to the ffshow audio decoder, connected to the default directsound device.
Switching FFDShow to MPC audio decoder and audio works, no issues.

I suspect this may be an issue with the ffdshow audio decoder.


Albain:
The FFDShow headers got changed after beta 6, something about an OSD message I believe, made the headers incompatible with previous versions of FFDShow.

[STaRGaZeR]

Bug Report:
Playing Avatar (original decrypted Blu-Ray, not a re-encode, english track), when seeking directly after creating the graph, there's no audio and the property page shows no audio statistics, no issue when playing from beginning.

Have you tried with the build in my last post?

[piccirilli]

I'm having issues playing MKV files using MPC-HC along with FFD show Audio codecs. All of my movies are encoded with original HD audio track. When a movie starts playing (DTS Master HD for example), it displays Multi Channel In 7.1 (PCM mode) on my AVR. When I restart the movie by moving the slider control on MPC-HC back to the beginning, it will switch to DTS Master HD. Very strange. I've tried reconfiguring FFD show output, but haven't resolved this issue. I'm wondering if others using MPC are having the same bitstreaming issues and haven't discovered playing with the slider control temporarily corrects itself. I am using the latest FFDshow and MPC-HC 64 bit on Win7. Any suggestions on fixing this?

[vip]

Thanks, STaRGaZeR. Your build fixed a TrueHD decoding after audio track switch. Meanwhile the same ffdshow version donwloaded from xvidvideo.ru had that "switch" bug.

[DigitalDeviant]

The_Iceman and vip, please test this build to see if your problems with audio switching are gone: http://www.mediafire.com/?lyzbwyiywfq

Test it with software decoding and bitstreaming if possible.

This build also fixed a massive synch problem when seeking. Please, someone commit this!

[liquidskin76]

Hi Albain,

Here's the comparison logs as requested...

Xonar / mpc matroska splitter / ffdshow / dts-ma bitstreaming
...http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=iZvnu0iJ

Xonar / haali / ffdshow / dts-ma bitstreaming
...http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=3vrWg6p7

The haali combination results in broken audio and slow/broken video.

Tested on the haali builds of 27/03/2010 and 19/12/2009. Funny as i could have sworn it worked at some point during the beta testing of ffdshow hd audio bitstreaming?

I've also pm'd you.

Thanks!

[STaRGaZeR]

Here's the patch and a ICL11 build of the last revision with it applied:

Patch: http://www.mediafire.com/?jtjnfgendgm
Build: http://www.mediafire.com/?4u2ygtjxjnj

Have you found any problems with audio switching with this patch? Or only improvements compared to trunk?

[albain]

Hey Guys,

Is there any news on the Haali + DTS-MA issue, in that the audio plays ok however vid stutters and hangs like crazy?

Is it a Haali or ffdshow issue? Is Albain aware of it?

Cheers!

I answered you by PM but here is the final answer so that everyone is aware of that problem : I don't think the problem comes from Haali or FFDshow.
It happens if you have a xonar.

I suspect the audio renderer to blacklist the upstream filter (haali) : when haali is used, ffdshow bitstream filter receives a decoding error from the audio renderer. When MPC splitter is used, it works fine though.

Maybe you should try to use earlier versions of arcsoft (and haali too) to confirm this

[Casshern]

A quick info:
For me, the latest FFDSHOW Svn versions showed some big showstoppers:
- After audio track switching bitstreaming didn't work anymore
- Only if the "first" audio track is a HD track bitstreaming works

Switched back to Rev3318 (like nightfly has in his signature) and everything worked again as it should...

Using a Xonar Slim with arcsoft renderer!

Try to disable/enable the option "connect as pcm first" in the output tab of ffdshow.

[SamuriHL]

I answered you by PM but here is the final answer so that everyone is aware of that problem : I don't think the problem comes from Haali or FFDshow.
It happens if you have a xonar.

I suspect the audio renderer to blacklist the upstream filter (haali) : when haali is used, ffdshow bitstream filter receives a decoding error from the audio renderer. When MPC splitter is used, it works fine though.

Maybe you should try to use earlier versions of arcsoft (and haali too) to confirm this

Wow. That really blows.

[Sebastiii]

The_Iceman and vip, please test this build to see if your problems with audio switching are gone: http://www.mediafire.com/?lyzbwyiywfq

Test it with software decoding and bitstreaming if possible.

Hi can you post the .patch file for audio switching, i think it solve an issue in Mediaportal too.

When i change audio stream in Bitstream DTS, i can switch 1 to 2 but if i go again in 1, the movie stop.

I'm thinking that it was a PB within MP but with your last release :
ffdshow_rev3390_20100430_msvc2008.exe it's seems that it solve this issue :)

Thx.
Seb.

Edit : : i'm an idiot man lol, i just see that you have put a few thread ago :)

[STaRGaZeR]

You have it right there :D

[Sebastiii]

STaRGaZeR, thanks, it solve issue :)

[Xin-Hong]

Hello,

Just some little questions : I want to play some 5.1 HD audio tracks on my 2.1 system (Logitech Z-2300, one jack goes to speakers+sub).
Which settings are good : 2/0/0 Stereo or 2/0/0 Stereo + LFE ?
Does the Dolby Surround/ProLogic and Dolby ProLogic II simulate the surround speakers on a 2.1 system ?

Thanks :)

[mark0077]

Playing an m2ts with true-hd in it, using ffdshow audio decoder 3397, when I seek, audio either completely stops, or audio plays at like 10000% as if its trying to catch up to where I seeked to.

Without ffdshow this doesn't occur. Any thing I can post here to help or is this a known problem.

[STaRGaZeR]

Try this build: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1395813#post1395813

[st0niMah0ni]

I have a Question for the Xonar users.

Does anybody have a solution for mkv files with 2 audios in it?
If I disable the audioswitcher in mpc-hc it plays both audios at the same time.

If I enable the audio switcher it breaks the bitstream, because its not using arcsoft render.

thx and greetz

[mark0077]

Try this build: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1395813#post1395813

I can seek with this version you posted without issues :D

[dbone1026]

Try this build: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1395813#post1395813

Is this fix now part of the latest svn builds on sourceforge?

[STaRGaZeR]

Yes, starting with build 3409.

[liquidskin76]

I answered you by PM but here is the final answer so that everyone is aware of that problem : I don't think the problem comes from Haali or FFDshow.
It happens if you have a xonar.

I suspect the audio renderer to blacklist the upstream filter (haali) : when haali is used, ffdshow bitstream filter receives a decoding error from the audio renderer. When MPC splitter is used, it works fine though.

Maybe you should try to use earlier versions of arcsoft (and haali too) to confirm this

Is anyone else seeing this on either a Xonar or ATi 5xxx (really bad video lag when bistreaming DTS-MA using Haali / ffdshow) as i'm also seeing it on my ATI 5450, via default directsound renderer?

I've tested with the 27/03/2010 and 19/12/2009 builds of Haali.

I'm going to test with CoreAVC in case it's a MPCVideoDec or ffdshow video decoding issue.

@Albain,

I've pm'd you with a log.

Thanks!

[liquidskin76]

I'm going to test with CoreAVC in case it's a MPCVideoDec or ffdshow video decoding issue.


Nope, get the same with CoreAVC!

So i've tried the Xonar, the ATI 5450, an Ion board, a Core2 board, fresh builds, previous versions of both Haali and ffdshow, however i always the get the same video/audio lag with Haali / DTS-MA bitstream combo.

I'm sure Haali has works before with DTS-MA bitstreaming in the past, however i'm starting to think maybe not?!

Been testing from mkv so gonna have a go with m2ts.

[liquidskin76]

Nope, get the same with CoreAVC!

So i've tried the Xonar, the ATI 5450, an Ion board, a Core2 board, fresh builds, previous versions of both Haali and ffdshow, however i always the get the same video/audio lag with Haali / DTS-MA bitstream combo.

I'm sure Haali has works before with DTS-MA bitstreaming in the past, however i'm starting to think maybe not?!

Been testing from mkv so gonna have a go with m2ts.

Couldn't get any audio with haali / m2ts.

[liquidskin76]

Can a ATI 5xxx user confirm if they can successfully bitstream DTS-HD MA when using Haali/mkv combo?

Thanks!

[SamuriHL]

I'll have to get the latest ffdshow/mpc-hc. I'm nowhere near up to date. I just got back from vacation so I can't promise I'll get to it today but I'll see what I can do.

[liquidskin76]

I'll have to get the latest ffdshow/mpc-hc. I'm nowhere near up to date. I just got back from vacation so I can't promise I'll get to it today but I'll see what I can do.

Cheers!

[SamuriHL]

Ok, testing Haali with 64 bit MPC-HC and ffdshow, bitstreaming does indeed break pretty nastily. I did not try in 32 bit land as I no longer want to play there. :) In any case, removing haali restored bitstreaming and I had no problems at that point. What you should do is set up ffdshow to give you a debug log and post the log so we can see what's happening. I got bitstreamed audio from DTS-HD MA from an MKV, but, the video didn't start playing til 10 seconds into it and when it did the audio started breaking up. TrueHD just simply never bitstreamed at all with haali. If absolutely necessary I can throw 32 bit stuff back on and try with that but from what I understand I think it's going to have the same end result. I don't have time right now to do debug logs though.

[liquidskin76]

I've already pm'd Albain with logs for both Xonar and ATI 5450.

Cheers for testing... was starting to think i was going nuts and thinking it was only me!

[SamuriHL]

No, it doesn't seem to be just you. I had some other testing I needed to get done today, so, I added yours to the list. :) None of my testing is giving me the results I'm looking for. :( I'm actually quite displeased right now tbh. This situation was the least of my issues today. However, yes, it should get fixed if possible. :)

[liquidskin76]

I got bitstreamed audio from DTS-HD MA from an MKV, but, the video didn't start playing til 10 seconds into it and when it did the audio started breaking up.

Exactly what i see with Haali. TrueHD and other formats bitstream ok.

[SamuriHL]

Exactly what i see with Haali. TrueHD and other formats bitstream ok.

TrueHD didn't seem to want to play nice for me but I only tried one m2ts file. Unless there's a reason I'm not going to try again. :)

[Skinleech]

Has anyone had success bitstreaming on the Xonar with the latest builds of TMT3, and therefore the new Arcsoft audio renderer? Or more to the point, bitstreaming with the .160 version of the renderer, in a different forlder from the one that TMT3 is installed to?

As I posted several pages back, any patch after 161 to TMT3 chnages the renderer drastically, and breaks bitstreaming. I got sick of the Update/cancel dialogue in 160, so updated to 161 as I don't need mkv suport. That totally broke TMT3 so I ended up installing the latest patch (175?).

I'd already backed up a copy of the audio renderer from .160 but no matter what I do, I can't get bitstreaming to work unless the file resides in my installed TMT3 path.

At the moment, I've resorted to setting up 2 batch files that overwrite the audio renderer in the TMT3 folder - one with .160 for MPC to bitstream, and one with the .175 to allow TMT to work - this is less than ideal of course.

[liquidskin76]

I had problems getting bitstreaming to work on my xonar slim with my existing copy of tmt3, and all patches. I could only get it working with the version on the Asus site, v.141 i believe.

Are you on a slim or full height card?

[rsd78]

Although I'm not trying exactly to bitstream HD audio I thought this would be the appropriate thread to ask the question.

I have a mkv with a dts-ma audio track, however I'm using spdif for audio. Do all DTS-MA tracks have a DTS core or can ffdshow at least play that type of track back via DTS over spdif? When I tried this sample, I got the DTS light to show up but no sound. I tried the same track on another pc but it's only outputting stereo sound and it got audio.

I'm trying to understand if this is a hardware issue on my end, a configuration issue or simply a technical limitation.

Thanks!

[liquidskin76]

Although I'm not trying exactly to bitstream HD audio I thought this would be the appropriate thread to ask the question.

I have a mkv with a dts-ma audio track, however I'm using spdif for audio. Do all DTS-MA tracks have a DTS core or can ffdshow at least play that type of track back via DTS over spdif? When I tried this sample, I got the DTS light to show up but no sound. I tried the same track on another pc but it's only outputting stereo sound and it got audio.

I'm trying to understand if this is a hardware issue on my end, a configuration issue or simply a technical limitation.

Thanks!

You should be getting the dts core bitstreamed. I've had issues bitstreaming the core dts using ffdshow on a geforce 9300 hdmi, where i didn't get any audio and my avr reported dts 1.0.

I reported it a while back with logs however i don't think Albain had chance to look at it.

I'll try again over the weekend and post fresh logs.

Cheers

[rsd78]

You should be getting the dts core bitstreamed. I've had issues bitstreaming the core dts using ffdshow on a geforce 9300 hdmi, where i didn't get any audio and my avr reported dts 1.0.

I reported it a while back with logs however i don't think Albain had chance to look at it.

I'll try again over the weekend and post fresh logs.

Cheers

Well just to confirm it isn't the file, I played it in TMT3 and it played the DTS core fine.

So something with ffdshow I guess?

[liquidskin76]

Well just to confirm it isn't the file, I played it in TMT3 and it played the DTS core fine.

So something with ffdshow I guess?

That's right.

I'll post new logs for core dts over the weekend if someone doesn't beat me to it.

@Albain,

Would you like me to post the log on the main ffdshow thread instead, so the other devs can look at?

I know you're busy! Plus there's the haali/dts-hd ma problem awaiting your brain power!!

Thanks

[Skinleech]

I had problems getting bitstreaming to work on my xonar slim with my existing copy of tmt3, and all patches. I could only get it working with the version on the Asus site, v.141 i believe.

Are you on a slim or full height card?

It's a slim I'm using.

It's just odd that the Arcsoft audio renderer only works when it's in the folder that I installed TMT3 to. If I try to register a copy of the renderer in a different folder I get no audio.

I can understand the renderer itself not working after 161 as it drastically changed to allow ATI bitsreaming, but I can't see why a copy of a working renderer won't work if it's in another folder.

[liquidskin76]

It's a slim I'm using.

It's just odd that the Arcsoft audio renderer only works when it's in the folder that I installed TMT3 to. If I try to register a copy of the renderer in a different folder I get no audio.

I can understand the renderer itself not working after 161 as it drastically changed to allow ATI bitsreaming, but I can't see why a copy of a working renderer won't work if it's in another folder.

Maybe it's got associated .dll's that it needs, as the file itself is a .dll, not the usual .ax extension?

[Skinleech]

Maybe it's got associated .dll's that it needs, as the file itself is a .dll, not the usual .ax extension?

Now that's a fair point, and something I didn't think of.

Maybe I'll try taking a copy of the entire codec folder and see if I can whittle it down.

Cheers for the idea.

[nightfly]

Use the "depends.exe" to track down external dependencies for a given file dll (ax).

[Skinleech]

Maybe it's got associated .dll's that it needs, as the file itself is a .dll, not the usual .ax extension?

Yeah, you're totally right - took a copy of the codec with my 161 renderer and it works fine. Moved the original 175 renderer back to the TMT folder and it works fine.

Thanks

Use the "depends.exe" to track down external dependencies for a given file dll (ax).

Still need to work on this, it gives me an error when I run it. For 40mb to have a copy of the codec folder it's no big deal.

Good advice though, so thanks for the help.

[Skinleech]

What's the deal with ATI bitstreaming these days?

I've just ordered a 5450 card for a secondary machine, that has no need for bitstreaming, and never really will, but before I install it, I was thinking I'd try it in my HTPC to see how it compares to my on-board GF8300 (mostly with regards to refresh rate settings).

I'm a Xonar user currently, so how many settings will need to change in order to try out the ATI card? Just trying to work out if it'll be a total pain to test it when I'm only concered with video performance at present. It it works out, I'll look at getting something a little higher specced like a 57xx.

Cheers.

[zummi]

For bitstreaming (DTS-HD + TrueHD) via HDMI i use:

Catalyst 10.4 (latest)
Realtek HDMI audio drivers (latest)
MPC-HC MKV-splitter (MatroskaSplitter.ax)
MPC-HC Audio Renderer (MPCAudioRendererFilter.ax)
FFDshow x64 (latest)

I'm running Windows 7 media center with WMP for .MKV playback and TMT3 for blu-ray ISOs. No audio or video issues at all (ATI 5450 HDMI -> Yamaha RX-V456 -> 47" Philips 47PFL7404 @ 1920x1080@24hz)

By the way, anything higher than Radeon HD5450 will just be a waste of money if you're only using your HTPC for..well...HTPC-tasks.

[liquidskin76]

And for ATI 5xxx bitstreaming, don't forget an EDID Override.

[nevcairiel]

With Catalyst 10.4, the EDID Override is not necessarily needed anymore. It can still improve your expierence in some cases, but AMD/ATI fixed the issue that absolutely required the EDID override.

A note on the 5450.. It is powerful enough to decode up to 1080p at L5.1. However, to achieve this you might have to turn off some of the post-processing tasks. If you use the Enforce Smooth Video Playback options, it'll automatically turn those off. This includes the rather good vector adaptive deinterlacer, which imho, does a terrific job.

The lowest card that can run all post-processing while decoding is the 5670, at least according to the specifications coded into the Catalyst drivers.