ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[86sixsix]

re: 'helium' sounding audio...

i'm not hdmi... just analogue... but i get the 'helium' high-timbre when playing back 96khz tracks... they invariably get parsed as 48khz. for me, seeking back a bit does not fix the issue as some have reported.

same behaviour with .dtshd files as well as 'movie' containers.

i've only tested with dts hd ma 7.1 96/24... i haven't got any truehd stuff with that high a rate.

using just about everything up to and including: mpc splitters 1752 and ffdshow 3316... same behaviour with both 32 and 64 bit.

also - i can't get dts hd ma at all in a m2ts - i only get the core... evidently a splitter issue as remuxed to mkv same stream works fine.

if anyone's any ideas on how to get 7.1 96khz (16, 24, 32 - i don't care) out using analogue i'll try anything and everything...

EDIT: forgot... this happens using waveout, directsound and mpc renderers... haven't got arcsoft to test with.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

I have success to make a little log before it crash with TMT and ATI.

bitstream_TMT_ATI_DTSHR7.1.rar (http://sebinternet.free.fr/bitstream_TMT_ATI_DTSHR7.1.rar)
bitstream_TMT_ATI_THD2.0.rar (http://sebinternet.free.fr/bitstream_TMT_ATI_THD2.0.rar)
bitstream_TMT_ATI_THD7.1.rar (http://sebinternet.free.fr/bitstream_TMT_ATI_THD7.1.rar)

I hope that it's enough, if we can fix the crash (dumptool) on MPC-HC -> FFDshow + ATI, I can make more log and full with TMT + ATI :).

It crash not at the same time, i think it's a buffer somewhere with ATI because with Xonar there is no crash.

Thanks,
Seb.

[albain]

Thank you Seb for your efforts but the media structures are all identical

I remember that someone (you or SamuriHL) managed to make dumps with the right mediastructures

Maybe this was with powerdvd, I am not sure

[SamuriHL]

I can't do proper dumps, but, when I get home Wednesday I should be able to provide the media structures.

[Sebastiii]

Hi SamuriHL :)

How you get media structures ?
I've made some other log but i didn't know if it's better or not :) lol
Seb.

[The_Iceman]

Hello everyone!

First: Great piece of work here! Albain, samurihl and sebastii and all the other working on this... Following this Therad a Long Time now! Bitstreaming now seems to be a Big step forward after it is now usable with ffdshow!

But I've a big showstopper here...

I'm using the latest ffdshow Build with arcsoft renderer Inside Mediaportal for bitstreaming!
This is working really good, besides the known seeking issue...
But after i've watched a file with hd audio I can't get the "normal" Audio back!
I Need to restart the Player to make it work again... It seems to get Stuck with arcsoft rendere or waveout !

Same Problem occurs also in MPC-HC, After bitstreaming Open up a mp3 or mkv without multichannel Audio and they will not Play!

I'll bet I'm Not the only One with this Problem...
Can someone verify this issue in His xonar too?

Is this a known issue ?

Best regards
Chris

PS: Using Windows 7 x64 and Xonar hdav slim!

[SamuriHL]

Hi SamuriHL :)

How you get media structures ?
I've made some other log but i didn't know if it's better or not :) lol
Seb.

I use graph studio and attach to the graph as it's playing. From there I can see the structures. I can't, however, see content of the streams.

[Sebastiii]

Thanks,

I will try :)

[Sebastiii]

Hi, :)

I have post the request on Slysoft :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all :)

I post maybe an issue related to Reclock, but i'm not sure lol.
The issue is that i use Bitstream delay on FFDshow Audio Output to according the Video and Audio lipsync that i have in 24p.

If i set the delay (300ms for me, i have try with 1 ms) i don't have anysound output for bitstream Audio (DD, DTS) but i have sound for HD Bitstream sound like TrueHD, DTSMA etc. (if i set 0 ms -> it's ok)

I have setup in Wasapi mode and also in Directsound and waveout and it's the same.

If i disable Reclock Renderer the sound is here, so i think it's maybe an issue with Reclock.

Also when i play the sample DTS or DD, no sound out like i said, reclock detect all like it should, while the sample is play, i can launch foobar in wasapi mode too and i have the sound of my MP3.

So i don't know why,

Cheers,
And thanks for all :)
Seb.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Albain if you have maybe an idea.

[Qaq]

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=39233
1.8.6.6 - 20/03/2010
........
* Fix: Option "Play media with bitstream audio at original speed" didn't work as expected
* Change: This option is renamed to "Disable media speed correction with bitstream audio (recommended)"

[Sebastiii]

Thanks i will try :)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

Can someone confirm me that with this sample, the audio is quite trouble lol ?

Samurai Champloo S01E01-0091.mkv (http://sebinternet.free.fr/Samurai Champloo S01E01-0091.mkv)

It's an AAC audio :)
Thx :).
Seb

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

I have again post for new version of reclock : Post about Aduio Delay and Reclock on Slysoft Forum (http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=253222&postcount=25)
So this issue appear when in shown SPDIF output in FFDShow. On all other format (HDMI etc.) it works, so i don't know if it's FFDshow or Reclock (with no reclock it's works).
Alos if i set 0 ms all work and even sample THD 2.0 working too :).

Thx,
Seb.

[jimwhite]

Do any of you think it's conceivable to add in one of Arcsoft's decoder filters AFTER ffdshow to decode the newly-freed bitstream WITHOUT downsampling for the folks who like Analog outs, but are not using a PAP analog card??

:helpful:

Jim White
Treasure Island, FL

[SamuriHL]

That's an interesting question. I don't think it's been tried before. I have no idea what it'd do or if it's even possible.

[rica]

Hi albain, hi guys.

I have good news if i haven't missed any post which reporting this before.

ffdshow+reclock 1.8.6.6 bitstreaming fixed THD skipping/no sound issue.

Thanks James :thanks:

(btw i use 3285)

ReClock offline config:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.6b6fa1cdfe.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?6b6fa1cdfe.png)

Leave online config as is. When bitstreaming starts:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.30bd1f8ebd.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?30bd1f8ebd.png)


ffdshow output config:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.14e94726e3.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?14e94726e3.png)



PS: seb, have a look at to slysoftforums:)

[rica]

Do any of you think it's conceivable to add in one of Arcsoft's decoder filters AFTER ffdshow to decode the newly-freed bitstream WITHOUT downsampling for the folks who like Analog outs, but are not using a PAP analog card??

:helpful:

Jim White
Treasure Island, FL

Hi, do you mean bitstreaming (undocoded) or bitperfect streaming (truly decoded as is)?

_ _ _ _

[SamuriHL]

Hi, do you mean bitstreaming (undocoded) or bitperfect streaming (truly decoded as is)?

_ _ _ _

He means both. :) Bitstreaming into the decoder. :D

[Sebastiii]

Thanks Rica :)

[The_Iceman]

Has anyone managed to get Dolby Digital Plus to bitstream with the xonar?
On my receiver the light goes on and display shows Dolby D+ but I don't hear any sound.

And is there any workaround available to get audio working again (MediaPortal and MPC-HC) after bitstreaming HD formats?

-Chris

[86sixsix]

He means both. :) Bitstreaming into the decoder. :D

I don't think my audigy's or x-fi's are PAP... but 8channel truehd 24b48khz comes out of ffdshow the way it went in here. no 16bit-ness at all.

The only thing us (me and about 10 of my mates, anyway) geriatric soundcard-ed people are having is 96k stuff gets parsed as 48 and sounds all helium-ish.

[SamuriHL]

I don't think my audigy's or x-fi's are PAP... but 8channel truehd 24b48khz comes out of ffdshow the way it went in here. no 16bit-ness at all.

The only thing us (me and about 10 of my mates, anyway) geriatric soundcard-ed people are having is 96k stuff gets parsed as 48 and sounds all helium-ish.

Right, that's because ffdshow can decode TrueHD to non-downsampled LPCM. If you use ReClock with it, you can probably straighten out the 96 stuff. The issue is that with DTS-HD MA, there's no open decoder for it. So what he's trying to do is pass the unmolested bitstream from ffdshow into the ArcSoft DTS-HD MA decoder in hopes that it'll decode it without downsampling it. It's...a theory. :)

[rica]

I don't think my audigy's or x-fi's are PAP... but 8channel truehd 24b48khz comes out of ffdshow the way it went in here. no 16bit-ness at all.

The only thing us (me and about 10 of my mates, anyway) geriatric soundcard-ed people are having is 96k stuff gets parsed as 48 and sounds all helium-ish.

If we are talking about bitperfect streaming (except DTS-HD):
ffdshow > reclock is the recipe.
For more; i think this thread is still contemporary :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15770959#post15770959

[86sixsix]

Right, that's because ffdshow can decode TrueHD to non-downsampled LPCM. If you use ReClock with it, you can probably straighten out the 96 stuff. The issue is that with DTS-HD MA, there's no open decoder for it. So what he's trying to do is pass the unmolested bitstream from ffdshow into the ArcSoft DTS-HD MA decoder in hopes that it'll decode it without downsampling it. It's...a theory. :)

got you. explains my (and my bud's) issues 100%. if we could get hd ma out we'd have a 'cyberlink disc frisbee contest' where everyone'd be a winner!

fyi: current behaviour re attempting to decode bitstream... (superb thinking...btw)

audigy and xfi latest drivers on 7_64_rtm... with bitstreaming selected on a 24bit 96khz dtshdma track we all get 8channel 48khz as input and 8 channel 1520 (not 1536?)KB SPDIF as output but the file never plays. just sits at 0:00 - regardless of what ffdshow's connected to (cyberlink won't connect at all and attempting to connect anything in the windows media foundation resulted in the input pin saying only 2 channels) and we don't even get a pop or crackle if we actually connect our digital out's up (obv. not expecting anything sensible to come out of it).

would also just like to add how much everyone's hard work is appreciated here. stunning work.

[SamuriHL]

There is another way to go about it but it's outside the realm of discussion for this thread. It has been found that if you have TMT3 and you only have a receiver that does analog, for example, an interesting work around can be applied IF you have a bitstream capable card. You could set TMT3 to use the bitstream capable card (xonar, ati 5xxx, etc) with PCM decoding, and then use ReClock to "redirect" that to your analog card for non-downsampled audio. It's nasty, but, it appears to work at the moment. The same kind of logic is what the OP was thinking when he asked about directing the bitstream from ffdshow into the ArcSoft decoder to see if non-downsampled PCM could be had. It's a neat theory but it's one I don't have time to try myself.

[jimwhite]

If I wasn't in the middle of short-selling my home and searching for another to rent, I'd be running Graphstudio and playing, but unfortunately I'm stuck with only a NetBook for now :(

Jim White
Treasure Island, FL

[fishlogan]

There is another way to go about it but it's outside the realm of discussion for this thread. It has been found that if you have TMT3 and you only have a receiver that does analog, for example, an interesting work around can be applied IF you have a bitstream capable card. You could set TMT3 to use the bitstream capable card (xonar, ati 5xxx, etc) with PCM decoding, and then use ReClock to "redirect" that to your analog card for non-downsampled audio. It's nasty, but, it appears to work at the moment. The same kind of logic is what the OP was thinking when he asked about directing the bitstream from ffdshow into the ArcSoft decoder to see if non-downsampled PCM could be had. It's a neat theory but it's one I don't have time to try myself.



hey samuriHL
i assume you have the delux hdav? doing this do you set the xonar panel to the analog output and leave tmt3 to hdmi output but with pcm set?

when i do this is i get no audio through my analog outputs but i do get sound with my hdmi output (i have a denon reciver with hdmi and 7.1 input)

if i set tmt3 to 7.1 i get no audio with truehd and dts hd (all over codecs work fine)

normally i would use the hdmi output but i prefer the sound of the analog

[SamuriHL]

hey samuriHL
i assume you have the delux hdav? doing this do you set the xonar panel to the analog output and leave tmt3 to hdmi output but with pcm set?

when i do this is i get no audio through my analog outputs but i do get sound with my hdmi output (i have a denon reciver with hdmi and 7.1 input)

if i set tmt3 to 7.1 i get no audio with truehd and dts hd (all over codecs work fine)

normally i would use the hdmi output but i prefer the sound of the analog

I don't. I have the regular Xonar HDAV 1.3. And it's sitting here on my desk right next to my laptop. (Doesn't fit. ROFLMAO!) And there's a lot of bugs with TMT3 and analog output I think. So, you may have to wait for a patch.

[fishlogan]

I don't. I have the regular Xonar HDAV 1.3. And it's sitting here on my desk right next to my laptop. (Doesn't fit. ROFLMAO!) And there's a lot of bugs with TMT3 and analog output I think. So, you may have to wait for a patch.

i assume youre using the ati 5xxx card then
analog has had lots of problems, not just with tmt3 but with all other players.
me thinks it might be time for mine to be sitting next to my laptop too

oh and also to all on this forum, great work!
the way its going ill soon not have to worry about tmt3 as well

[Skinleech]

Has anyone managed to get Dolby Digital Plus to bitstream with the xonar?
On my receiver the light goes on and display shows Dolby D+ but I don't hear any sound.

And is there any workaround available to get audio working again (MediaPortal and MPC-HC) after bitstreaming HD formats?

-Chris

No luck with DD+ for me (though granted I've not tried any new builds). Everything I have just freezes on a DD+ track. These are all remuxes to MKV.

I should really try an evo file direct from disk and check for sure.

[SamuriHL]

i assume youre using the ati 5xxx card then
analog has had lots of problems, not just with tmt3 but with all other players.
me thinks it might be time for mine to be sitting next to my laptop too

oh and also to all on this forum, great work!
the way its going ill soon not have to worry about tmt3 as well

The only card I use in that machine now is the 5870, yes. It works perfectly for bitstreaming in every player I have (minus the bugs in TMT3 with DD/DTS on DVD, of course). It works in all my games, as well. I see no reason for any other card. One cable out to the receiver....done.

[SamuriHL]

This may not be the right place to ask, but, I need some help. I've FINALLY gotten back to getting the latest and greatest ffdshow and mpc-hc set up. I want to get ffdshow dxva and subtitle support working, but, I'm not having a lot of luck. Could someone walk me through what needs to be done to get it working? I'd appreciate it. Thanks!!

[rsd78]

This may not be the right place to ask, but, I need some help. I've FINALLY gotten back to getting the latest and greatest ffdshow and mpc-hc set up. I want to get ffdshow dxva and subtitle support working, but, I'm not having a lot of luck. Could someone walk me through what needs to be done to get it working? I'd appreciate it. Thanks!!

SamuriHL, what was the problem in particular?

Pretty much enable ffdshow dxva, check subtitle support, play with some minor settings and it should work.

Albain added some keyboard hooks so that you can control it via keyboard in any player, but personally I use his Media Control App within Media Center to manage the audio/sub switching.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, what I did was disable all the internal MPC-HC stuff. I added ffdshow audio and dxva video to the external filters and made them preferred. When I play a VC1/TrueHD Blu-ray in MPC-HC now, it stutters horribly bad and cpu usage is over 40% (which on my machine...that's bad). So there's no way it's using ffdshow dxva. Something is definitely wrong there. I've tried going about it multiple ways. So, the "enable ffdshow dxva" part of that is not as simple and straightforward as it seems.

[rsd78]

Ok, what I did was disable all the internal MPC-HC stuff. I added ffdshow audio and dxva video to the external filters and made them preferred. When I play a VC1/TrueHD Blu-ray in MPC-HC now, it stutters horribly bad and cpu usage is over 40% (which on my machine...that's bad). So there's no way it's using ffdshow dxva. Something is definitely wrong there. I've tried going about it multiple ways. So, the "enable ffdshow dxva" part of that is not as simple and straightforward as it seems.

Ahh ok didn't realize you were doing it in mpc-hc. I use media center myself as my player, so that's why I glossed over the enable ffdshow dxva part :). Sorry I won't be much help with mpc-hc then.

[SamuriHL]

Right, that's what I'm looking for help on cause I can't seem to get it to work correctly. I'm sure I'm missing something but I'm not sure what. Media Center's fine and all but it doesn't know how to parse mpls files like mpc-hc does, so, on a seamless branched blu-ray you'd be screwed.

[clsid]

Adding ffdshow as a preferred external filter is usually not necessary. Just disabling the internal decoders is enough since ffdshow already has a higher merit than most other external decoders.

To use DXVA in MPC-HC you must select a video renderer that is compatible. On XP that is Overlay or EVR-9. On Vista/7 that is any of the EVR variants.

You can see which filters MPC is using through: Play -> Filters.

[SamuriHL]

Yea, see, that's what I thought, too, and how I set it up. :( I'm using the EVR Custom Pres. renderer. When I look at the filters it shows ffdshow Video Decoder and ffdshow Audio Decoder. And it skips like hell. I'm using 1771 of mpc-hc and ffdshow 3326. Upgrading to 3335 didn't help unfortunately.

EDIT: And why is it only showing the ffdshow video decoder and NOT the dxva video decoder? :( It's simply NOT using it at all.

[rsd78]

Yea, see, that's what I thought, too, and how I set it up. :( I'm using the EVR Custom Pres. renderer. When I look at the filters it shows ffdshow Video Decoder and ffdshow Audio Decoder. And it skips like hell. I'm using 1771 of mpc-hc and ffdshow 3326. Upgrading to 3335 didn't help unfortunately.

EDIT: And why is it only showing the ffdshow video decoder and NOT the dxva video decoder? :( It's simply NOT using it at all.

Isn't the merit of the ffdshow video decoder higher by default than the dxva one?

[SamuriHL]

No, it's the same. So yea, I fixed it. I had indeed taken it out of the external filters list. I put it back and now it's working. Thought I had tried this combination before but apparently not. Hey this is slick! Nice work, albain!! Very impressive.

[albain]

ffdshow DXVA merit = ffdshow software dec merit + 1 and should remain higher

Because FFDshow DXVA has to be loaded first : it will check according to preset settings if it should remain loaded otherwise it will be unloaded and ffdshow software will be loaded instead

[SamuriHL]

It didn't seem to for me. :) Once I set it to prefer all is well. Well, sort of, but, I think the problem I'm having on my 4850 is specific to that particular machine. It has pauses where the video just freezes. It's a pain. I had this problem with other players before and I spent hours configuring the CCC to make it work right. It's not with MPC-HC+ffdshow. It's better with haali, but, still causing me problems there. A new 5xxx video card could be in that machine's future if it doesn't knock it off. :)

[Sebastiii]

Hi :)

I have something and i don't know if it's normal lol.

On this sample AAC (Multi-Channel) Samurai Champloo S01E01-0091.mkv (http://sebinternet.free.fr/Samurai Champloo S01E01-0091.mkv), if i play with in Graphstudio and FDDshow Stream switcher enable, all works good, the PIN Out of splitter (here MPC Matroska) goes to Input PIN AUDIO1 and AUDIO2 and i can switch.

But if i choose to encode in AC3 (Output section of FFDshow) the filter connect is not the same and make trouble.

Here screenshot :
Working AC3 Encode unchecked:

http://sebinternet.free.fr/NormalAAC.png

And when AC3 encode enable, i have several case in fonction of soundcard driver -> but the result is that i can't play it start but stop after.

1- Sometimes a filter is connected between the output of splitter and input of ffdshow in Audio1.

Can you help me lol ?
Seb.
Thanks.

[liquidskin76]

Hey Guys,

Is there any news on the Haali + DTS-MA issue, in that the audio plays ok however vid stutters and hangs like crazy?

Is it a Haali or ffdshow issue? Is Albain aware of it?

Cheers!

[rica]

Hey Guys,

Is there any news on the Haali + DTS-MA issue, in that the audio plays ok however vid stutters and hangs like crazy?

Is it a Haali or ffdshow issue? Is Albain aware of it?

Cheers!

It's an Haali issue for sure. No issues with Gabest at all.

[liquidskin76]

It's an Haali issue for sure. No issues with Gabest at all.

Thought so. Cheers

[JoeH]

Try changing the MPC-HC renderer from "EVR Custom Pres." to EVR. I don't bitstream, but with other videos that have that problem it has fixed that problem for me.

[The_Iceman]

A quick info:
For me, the latest FFDSHOW Svn versions showed some big showstoppers:
- After audio track switching bitstreaming didn't work anymore
- Only if the "first" audio track is a HD track bitstreaming works

Switched back to Rev3318 (like nightfly has in his signature) and everything worked again as it should...

Using a Xonar Slim with arcsoft renderer!

[clsid]

Please add an entry to the bugtracker. That way your report won't be forgotten.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=173941&atid=867360

[ashman5]

I have MCP-HC setup to "remember file position" to allow me to stop a movie for watching at a later time without trying to find where I left off.

If I start a movie from the beginning, I have no issues, but if I start a TrueHD movie, then stop...then play a DTS-MA movie, then stop...when I return to the TrueHD movie, I get LPCM. If I restart the movie from the beginning, TrueHD returns as normal.

If I uncheck "remember file position" this issue goes away, but movies are restarted from the beginning each time.

I'm using Win7/MC7 (32bit) with 5450 card and latest x86 files from the Russian site.