ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[Skinleech]

Thanks guys.

I had forgotten about the EDID override, so that's useful.

With regarsd to the 5450 vs a higher specced card, useful info again. The one I've bought will be used for ver occaisional playback @60hz on a machine that is mostly used for TV storage. Performance is not much of an issue for that.

If I like how it works though, an ATI card might need to be purchased for the HTPC, and I would go for something beefier, as I would use the oppotunity to use something that gives me the required oomph to use Madvr as my renderer, which my 8300 chipset can't handle.

[Richardw322]

Everyone recomends the 5670 for full processing, wouldn't the 5570 work as well? Is it just a driver limitation?

[hoborg]

With Catalyst 10.4, the EDID Override is not necessarily needed anymore. It can still improve your expierence in some cases, but AMD/ATI fixed the issue that absolutely required the EDID override.

A note on the 5450.. It is powerful enough to decode up to 1080p at L5.1. However, to achieve this you might have to turn off some of the post-processing tasks. If you use the Enforce Smooth Video Playback options, it'll automatically turn those off. This includes the rather good vector adaptive deinterlacer, which imho, does a terrific job.

The lowest card that can run all post-processing while decoding is the 5670, at least according to the specifications coded into the Catalyst drivers.

Do you have any proof of that?

[nevcairiel]

Anandtech reviewed both the 5450 and the 5570, and came to the conclusion that both cards disable at least the Vector Adaptive Deinterlacer, if not even more post-processing. I believe they even confirmed their findings with AMD directly.

Remember that this is just a recommendation in the driver. You can turn off Enforced Smoth Video Playback, and it may still work perfectly. However AMD believes that the power of those cards is not enough to handle it in every case.

5450: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2931/4 (there was a bug in the CCC at the time of testing, its mentioned again in the 5570 article)
5570: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2935/3

[hoborg]

@nevcairiel:

That is exactly what i was thinking. Anandtech was testing 5450 on beta drivers and you are right, there was an bug it this beta drivers. Too bad they didnt correct thier article :(

I have 5450 in my HTPC and 5770 in my working PC - both are working without any isue including vector adaptive deinterlacing (i using it for LiveTV).

[nevcairiel]

The bug actually was that with ESVP enabled, it didn't show all features as disabled, that it actually did disable. But like i said, those are recommendations by AMD, you can turn ESVP off, and all the post-processing may work perfectly. They just don't guarantee it on those cards. ESVP is basically just an option that makes sure, that the card can provide smooth and flawless playback of any material, so it turns post-processing off on the lower models.

I rarely use interlaced material myself, so i'm still considering getting a 5450, just because its a passive card.

[Richardw322]

I read both those articles, that's why I ask. Anandtech seemed to think AMD was being too conservative.

Anandtech reviewed both the 5450 and the 5570, and came to the conclusion that both cards disable at least the Vector Adaptive Deinterlacer, if not even more post-processing. I believe they even confirmed their findings with AMD directly.

Remember that this is just a recommendation in the driver. You can turn off Enforced Smoth Video Playback, and it may still work perfectly. However AMD believes that the power of those cards is not enough to handle it in every case.

5450: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2931/4 (there was a bug in the CCC at the time of testing, its mentioned again in the 5570 article)
5570: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2935/3

[nevcairiel]

I just saw this quote in the article that kept me thinking a bit. They tested it with the 5450, and it seemed to work fine, however, apparently not for everyone. It was mostly just a fact that i wanted to get out here. If you watch alot of interlaced material (especially sports from 1080i broadcasts), its something you might have to consider.

In our testing we didn’t notice any obvious playback issues with the 5450 or 5570 when we had ESVP disabled, but we’ve seen enough forum posts of this feature magically fixing poor video playback performance that we’re not confident enough to recommend disabling this feature. It’s something we think should be left enabled, at least for the time being.

I'll probably still get a 5450 (or a passive 5570 if i can find one). I mostly watch BluRays and proper HDTV in 1080p, not interlaced. The only interlaced material i currently have are some old tv series on dvd, but i'm sure it can handle that just fine :D

PS:
I actually found a 5670 thats passively cooled. The PowerColor Radeon HD 5670 Go! Green, anyone have any experience with either PowerColor, or this brand of cards specifically?

[fps]

I've read the whole thread now (took some time ;)) and it seems there is still no other way to handle audio dropouts while bitsreaming in software mode, other than disabling powerplay/setting the clocks manually for the 5xxx, right?

@albain: Could you please update your first post and fill in this post http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1361670#post1361670 where it is described how to get rid of those audio dropouts, thanks!

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

@fps : For audio dropouts, we must (again) make a ticket @ AMD support Drivers to hope that they solve this issue with PowerPlay !

Link to the Post that Albain give us the link of AMD Support (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1369484#post1369484)

We have to re open a ticket :) to make pressure on AMD.

Thanks,
Seb.

[fps]

Hi,

@fps : For audio dropouts, we must (again) make a ticket @ AMD support Drivers to hope that they solve this issue with PowerPlay !

Link to the Post that Albain give us the link of AMD Support (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1369484#post1369484)

We have to re open a ticket :) to make pressure on AMD.

Thanks,
Seb.

I'll definitely open a ticket with AMD once I get a new Radeon, which will be soon hopefully :).

[Casshern]

I noticed a bug with jitter correction. If disabled ffdshow hangs on a lot dtsma tracks, only a couple of seeks gets it back to play the track (or in my case to extract the normal DTS core). If jitter correction is enabled, there are no such problems. This should not happen, it should work with the untampered timestamps.

[liquidskin76]

I noticed a bug with jitter correction. If disabled ffdshow hangs on a lot dtsma tracks, only a couple of seeks gets it back to play the track (or in my case to extract the normal DTS core). If jitter correction is enabled, there are no such problems. This should not happen, it should work with the untampered timestamps.

What splitter are you using? Haali or MPC Matroska?

Cheers

[rsd78]

Albain,

Any chance you could link to the issue of playing the DTS core of a DTS-MA track, I mentioned here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1401773#post1401773

Thanks!

[Casshern]

What splitter are you using? Haali or MPC Matroska?

Cheers

I am using the inbuild mpc m2ts splitter. The newest version of haali doesn't recognize many dts ma tracks ....

The bug is totally reproducable...something is weird in regard to ffdshows audio timestamp management. Jitter correction should have no influence on ffdshow playing a m2ts track.. (it should just reduce jitter)... but somehow without jitter correction, playback of dts cores does not work at all on some tracks.

[KLP]

I've got a Sapphire Vapor-X 5770 in my HTPC and have been suffering audio dropouts during movie playback (mostly mkv's playing in 7MC, using MPC's standalone splitter and ffdshow tryouts). I had very little hair left to tear out when I found this thread and discovered this is known issue; I'd already uninstalled and reinstalled, gone from x64 to x32 OS, tweaked filters, tried DIVX.... nothing worked.

Having read this thread, I currently have stable playback of most of my movies by getting the ffdshow DXVA video renderer to kick in (THANK YOU). But that doesn't work for stuff like iPlayer (in 'TunerFree MCE').

Unfortunately you guys are way ahead of me in technical understanding. The tweaks needed to disable PowerPlay are a bit beyond me. I have created a 'No Powerplay' profile in CCC 10.5 and the XML for it (from the '..<user>\Appdata\ATI\ACE\Profiles\' folder is below, but I have no idea what values to use... any chance someone could help me here? (I am not gaming on this box, so only need movie/video playback)

I have opened a ticket with AMD too.

Thanks.


- <Profile>
- <Caste name="Graphics">
- <Groups>
- <Group name="Overdrive5">
<Feature name="TimeUnlocked" />
- <Feature name="OverclockEnabled">
<Property name="OverclockEnabledProperty" value="True" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="AutoTuneSupport" />
- <Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="15700" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="60000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="86000" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="30000" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="120000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="120000" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="CoreVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="950" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="1000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="1125" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="MemoryVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="0" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="FanSpeedProtocol_0">
<Property name="FanSpeedProtocolProperty" value="Percent" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
<Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Automatic" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="FanSpeedRPMTarget_0">
<Property name="Want" value="0" />
</Feature>
- <Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
<Property name="Want" value="50" />
</Feature>
</Group>
</Groups>
- <Adapter name="PCI_VEN_1002&DEV_68B8&SUBSYS_E147174B&REV_00_4&2FAE9228&0&0008A">
<Aspect name="Overdrive5" />
</Adapter>
</Caste>
</Profile>

[mremulator]

Hello to all... first post here, been waiting 5 days to post about this.

I'm also having problems with DTS, DTS-MA & DTS-MA (core only) with ffdshow (latest) Haali/Gabtest (latest).

Basically, I have 2 rigs... main rig = i7 920, Nvidia GTX280 (x3) & Sound Blaster PCI-E Titanium. HTPC = I3 530 & ATI HD5570.

Anyway, no matter what I do on my Nvidia rig (optical out to Denon AVR-1909 receiver) it will not play nice with DTS-MA (core only). The DTS light is on but I get no channels lit up/no sound, even with DTS HD unchecked in ffdshow. I also get drop-outs with a regular DTS track.

It seems that ffdshow and Haali/Gabtest seem not to be passing DTS MA (core only) from a MA track properly to the receiver via S/PDIF or HDMI??

However, I can get the full DTS MA track working on my Radeon 5570 rig (HDMI out to Pioneer LX60 receiver), but not core only (DTS HD unchecked in ffdshow). The DTS light goes bonkers on my Pioneer receiver and the audio cuts in and out rapidly. I also get drop-outs with a regular DTS track too on this machine.

As my Nvidia rig only has a standard soundcard (no HD audio) I can't watch an MKV with a DTS HD MA track (core only). As mentioned above, DTS also plays up on both rigs.

What is up with ffdshow/MKV splitters at the moment? :confused:

Thanks

[rica]

Hello to all... first post here, been waiting 5 days to post about this.

I'm also having problems with DTS, DTS-MA & DTS-MA (core only) with ffdshow (latest) Haali/Gabtest (latest).

Basically, I have 2 rigs... main rig = i7 920, Nvidia GTX280 (x3) & Sound Blaster PCI-E Titanium. HTPC = I3 530 & ATI HD5570.

Anyway, no matter what I do on my Nvidia rig (optical out to Denon AVR-1909 receiver) it will not play nice with DTS-MA (core only). The DTS light is on but I get no channels lit up/no sound, even with DTS HD unchecked in ffdshow. I also get drop-outs with a regular DTS track.

It seems that ffdshow and Haali/Gabtest seem not to be passing DTS MA (core only) from a MA track properly to the receiver via S/PDIF or HDMI??

However, I can get the full DTS MA track working on my Radeon 5570 rig (HDMI out to Pioneer LX60 receiver), but not core only (DTS HD unchecked in ffdshow). The DTS light goes bonkers on my Pioneer receiver and the audio cuts in and out rapidly. I also get drop-outs with a regular DTS track too on this machine.

As my Nvidia rig only has a standard soundcard (no HD audio) I can't watch an MKV with a DTS HD MA track (core only). As mentioned above, DTS also plays up on both rigs.

What is up with ffdshow/MKV splitters at the moment? :confused:

Thanks

DTSHD-MA: forget Haali first, you should use Gabest Matroska Source or new Solveig Matroska Splitter. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1406460#post1406460)

And it's not clear for me what you are using exactly?

1) main rig = i7 920, Nvidia GTX280 (x3) & Sound Blaster PCI-E Titanium with a Denon 1909
2) secondary rig= I3 530 & ATI HD5570 with a Pio? Correct?
We can't understand where you get the audio? over Clarkdale or external VGAs?
Do you use combo or not?
Do you use Edid override or not?

Pls have a look at this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1370134#post1370134

And here you'll find here how to setup a combo: (I get video over my nVidia card while i get audio over my Clarkdale.)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18348835#post18348835

[mremulator]

DTSHD-MA: forget Haali first, you should use Gabest Matroska Source or new Solveig Matroska Splitter. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1406460#post1406460)

And it's not clear for me what you are using exactly?

1) main rig = i7 920, Nvidia GTX280 (x3) & Sound Blaster PCI-E Titanium with a Denon 1909
2) secondary rig= I3 530 & ATI HD5570 with a Pio? Correct?
We can't understand where you get the audio? over Clarkdale or external VGAs?
Do you use combo or not?
Do you use Edid override or not?

Pls have a look at this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1370134#post1370134

And here you'll find here how to setup a combo: (I get video over my nVidia card while i get audio over my Clarkdale.)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18348835#post18348835

Hi,

Yes... on my HTPC (I3 530 / HD 5770) I'm using the Radeon's HDMI output (audio & video) to my Pioneer LX60 receiver (no override required). The Intel GPU is disabled and I have no intention of using it as it's not powerful enough (using shaders etc). Basically, all DTS audio tracks (unless using MPC HC + internal filters) suffer from drop-outs, despite having registered the standalone filters for WMP/WMC7 and disabling Media Foundation etc. I do not want to use MPC HC at the moment as there are problems with lip sync when I go from a window to a full screen (or vice-versa) or pause/un-pause. I've tried EVR, EVR Custom Pres. & EVR Sync... all do exactly the same. Also it does not integrate that well with Media Browser IMHO.

On my main rig (Nvidia GTX 280 Tri-SLI / Sound Blaster via optical out) I can't get DTS (core) from any DTS MA track. The DTS lamp is lit on my AVR-1909. However, only one channel lamp flickers and I get no audio. Again, no override is required as I'm using S/PDIF and not trying to bitstream HD audio.

[rica]

Hi,
On my main rig (Nvidia GTX 280 Tri-SLI / Sound Blaster via optical out) I can't get DTS (core) from any DTS MA track. The DTS lamp is lit on my AVR-1909. However, only one channel lamp flickers and I get no audio. Again, no override is required as I'm using S/PDIF and not trying to bitstream HD audio.

Here are the test files:



THD.m2ts:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jzmijuzgdq4

DTSHD.m2ts:
http://www.mediafire.com/?odmgz2ymd1j


Pls give it a go with this way:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1406725#post1406725

You will get core ac3 or just dts core with that setup.
Or if you re-tick THD or DTSHD boxes, you will get blue light back as well :)

BTW i'd suggest you to use combo systems if you have Giga mobos. Video over your VGA and audio over your Clarkdale.

[mremulator]

Is the SolveigNM splitter 32 & 64 bit?

[mremulator]

Here are the test files:



Pls give it a go with this way:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1406725#post1406725

You will get core ac3 or just dts core with that setup.
Or if you re-tick THD or DTSHD boxes, you will get blue light back as well :)

BTW i'd suggest you to use combo systems if you have Giga mobos. Video over your VGA and audio over your Clarkdale.

OK... both your test files (m2ts) work fine. However, I still can't get DTS (core only) from an MKV with a DTS HD MA tracK (Tried Legion & Avatar)? The DTS light is lit on my AVR-1909, however, the channel lights flicker and I get no audio.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6474/graphn.jpg

Would like to try this om my HTPC (Radeon), but I need a 64-bit build of the SolveigNM Matroska filter to test.

[rsd78]

OK... both your test files (m2ts) work fine. However, I still can't get DTS (core only) from an MKV with a DTS HD MA tracK (Tried Legion & Avatar)? The DTS light is lit on my AVR-1909, however, the channel lights flicker and I get no audio.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6474/graphn.jpg

Would like to try this om my HTPC (Radeon), but I need a 64-bit build of the SolveigNM Matroska filter to test.

I think there is a bug with ffdshow, as (over spdif) I had the same issue of getting no audio (but DTS light on) when playing back a DTS-HD MA track.

[rica]

OK... both your test files (m2ts) work fine. However, I still can't get DTS (core only) from an MKV with a DTS HD MA tracK (Tried Legion & Avatar)? The DTS light is lit on my AVR-1909, however, the channel lights flicker and I get no audio.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6474/graphn.jpg

Would like to try this om my HTPC (Radeon), but I need a 64-bit build of the SolveigNM Matroska filter to test.

You don't need a 64 bit splitter at all. I'm using it on my 7/64.

On the other hand i'm uploading my output dts-hd mkv and please give it a go.

EDIT:

And here you are, pls give it a try with both HDMI and SPDIF:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ntai3mljzoz

And use EVR.
_ _ _ _

[mremulator]

You don't need a 64 bit splitter at all. I'm using it on my 7/64.

On the other hand i'm uploading my output dts-hd mkv and please give it a go.

EDIT:

And here you are, pls give it a try with both HDMI and SPDIF:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ntai3mljzoz

And use EVR.
_ _ _ _

Thanks Rica.

However, my goal is to get everything working properly in Windows Media Center 7. Therefore, I need to register the SolveigNM filter for 64-bit. I was under the impression that this was a 32-bit filter only at the moment? Also EVR is the default video renderer in WMC7/WMP no?

I also tried your dts-hd MKV... it worked fine through S/PDIF (have not tried other PC yet). But none of my MKV's with DTS-HD MA work (core only)? Actually, when I say "it worked fine"... it worked in MPC HC, however, not when I set up everything in GraphStudio as you recommended. The only difference between the two is MPC HC was using EVR Custom Pres. and I set up GraphStudio to use EVR as the renderer.

One thing I noticed though is that I can't verify your clip in MediaInfo. I get no info like I do with my files? Are you sure it's master audio?

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6413/mediainfo.jpg

[rica]

Thanks Rica.

I also tried your dts-hd MKV... it worked fine through S/PDIF (have not tried other PC yet). But none of my MKV's with DTS-HD MA work (core only)? Actually, when I say "it worked fine"... it worked in MPC HC, however, not when I set up everything in GraphStudio as you recommended. The only difference between the two is MPC HC was using EVR Custom Pres. and I set up GraphStudio to use EVR as the renderer.

One thing I noticed though is that I can't verify your clip in MediaInfo. I get no info like I do with my files? Are you sure it's master audio?


Yes mediainfo doesn't recognize muxed files by Solveig for the time being.

But i may recognize very well that i can get thd only or ac3 core only from a THD.mkv and i can get dtshd only or dts core only from a DTSHD.mkv:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1406725#post1406725


I also tried your dts-hd MKV... it worked fine through S/PDIF (have not tried other PC yet). But none of my MKV's with DTS-HD MA work (core only)?

Yes that is not surprising :)

BTW it doesn't matter what renderer your application uses: EVR or EVR Custom.

[rica]

Here is the second file for testers;

THD+ac3 mkv:

http://www.mediafire.com/?u40mjmdynyn

[mremulator]

Yes that is not surprising :)



Why? Is it the way they have been encoded? Like I said... still does not work in GraphStudio, only MPC HC.


*Edit* Dmitry Vergheles said they will compile a 64-bit version... cool.

rica... why does MY mkv splitter of choice (Haali/Gabtest/SolveigMM) not show in GraphStudio when I "render media file"?
However, filter is registered and working properly (confirmed by codec tweak tool).

[rica]

rica... why does MY mkv splitter of choice (Haali/Gabtest/SolveigMM) not show in GraphStudio when I "render media file"?
However, filter is registered and working properly (confirmed by codec tweak tool).

I have no idea; but it may help:

http://alax.info/blog/1111

Or try to add filters manually.

[SamuriHL]

Hey guys. Has anyone tried the new version of Haali from 5/20 with ffdshow and bitstreaming? I installed it to test out some subtitle stuff and much to my absolute amazement, it seems to be working! DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are both bitstreaming in an MKV container. I haven't tried from disc yet so will do that now, but, I could have sworn DTS-HD MA was broken before. If I no longer have any problems I'm going to be super psyched now cause Haali solves my subtitle splitting issue perfectly. I'm now a true believer in MKV's. :)

[dbone1026]

Hey guys. Has anyone tried the new version of Haali from 5/20 with ffdshow and bitstreaming? I installed it to test out some subtitle stuff and much to my absolute amazement, it seems to be working! DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are both bitstreaming in an MKV container. I haven't tried from disc yet so will do that now, but, I could have sworn DTS-HD MA was broken before. If I no longer have any problems I'm going to be super psyched now cause Haali solves my subtitle splitting issue perfectly. I'm now a true believer in MKV's. :)

I tested the latest Haali via SageTV 7. TrueHD worked flawless but DTS(MA) was horrible. Now that being said, it may have been a SageTV issue and not Haali, but I need to spend more time testing

[SamuriHL]

I tested the latest Haali via SageTV 7. TrueHD worked flawless but DTS(MA) was horrible. Now that being said, it may have been a SageTV issue and not Haali, but I need to spend more time testing

Still haven't gotten around to testing SageTV 7, but, Haali broke my ability to play BD mounted ISO's in MPC-HC. :( However, let's just say I don't care about that because I have plenty of options for disc playback. What I DO care about, though is solid MKV playback as that's the format I intend to use going forward. And so far, I've tried a couple different MKV's with DTS-HD MA embedded and they're playing most smoothly. I can absolutely live with the trade off of disc playback for MKV support. :) I'm honestly very pleased right now!

[SamuriHL]

Son of a building block. Ok, the story gets more convoluted. I have some MKV's I've made from movie only ISO's that I created with ClownBD. That uses eac3to to extract the streams, and tsMuxer to put them back together. I use ImgBurn to make the ISO. Yes, there's a point to this...bear with me here. I always do a full protected ISO for BD+ protected titles, so those aren't messed with at all. And for the past week or so before I started using MakeMKV, I was making movie only+menu ISO's with ClownBD BD Copier. Again, there's a point to mentioning all this. My experiment shows that if my MKV was made from an ISO that was touched by either eac3to or tsMuxer (not sure which yet...more testing needed) then with Haali the DTS-HD MA track will NOT play. It breaks up exactly as before. Interesting to note that MakeMKV wouldn't touch those ClownBD made ISOs, either. I had to extract them and use mkvmerge on them. (I could have just pulled the originals off the shelf but I'm lazy and hard drive access is faster). The MakeMKV ones that were made from my protected images or movie only + menu images or originals play fine with Haali. It's the ones that were touched either by eac3to or tsMuxer (I'm leaning towards tsMuxer being the culprit) that are refusing to play properly. This would seem to indicate that Haali is very picky about the stream. Can someone else confirm this finding if you have time? I'd very much appreciate it.

[liquidskin76]

Son of a building block. Ok, the story gets more convoluted. I have some MKV's I've made from movie only ISO's that I created with ClownBD. That uses eac3to to extract the streams, and tsMuxer to put them back together. I use ImgBurn to make the ISO. Yes, there's a point to this...bear with me here. I always do a full protected ISO for BD+ protected titles, so those aren't messed with at all. And for the past week or so before I started using MakeMKV, I was making movie only+menu ISO's with ClownBD BD Copier. Again, there's a point to mentioning all this. My experiment shows that if my MKV was made from an ISO that was touched by either eac3to or tsMuxer (not sure which yet...more testing needed) then with Haali the DTS-HD MA track will NOT play. It breaks up exactly as before. Interesting to note that MakeMKV wouldn't touch those ClownBD made ISOs, either. I had to extract them and use mkvmerge on them. (I could have just pulled the originals off the shelf but I'm lazy and hard drive access is faster). The MakeMKV ones that were made from my protected images or movie only + menu images or originals play fine with Haali. It's the ones that were touched either by eac3to or tsMuxer (I'm leaning towards tsMuxer being the culprit) that are refusing to play properly. This would seem to indicate that Haali is very picky about the stream. Can someone else confirm this finding if you have time? I'd very much appreciate it.

Hey SamuriHL,

I'll do some tests however won't be until tomorrow. I'll do a backup, then do some comparisons using eac3to and tsmuxer.

Will let you know.

Cheers

[SamuriHL]

Hey SamuriHL,

I'll do some tests however won't be until tomorrow. I'll do a backup, then do some comparisons using eac3to and tsmuxer.

Will let you know.

Cheers

Thanks! I'm running out of time tonight to do any more and I won't be home tomorrow. I'm nearly positive it's tsMuxer that's "causing" this issue. I think it's doing something to the DTS-HD MA stream that Haali doesn't like and that other splitters don't seem to care about. However, the fact that MakeMKV doesn't seem to like the streams either suggest it may be more than just a Haali problem. Yea, ok, MPC-HC internal splitter seems to not care, but, that's no longer a great option for me as I have embedded PGS subs that it can't seem to handle. I have a "work around" of sorts for movies that require subs but it's not one I overly love. Fortunately not all my movies require forced or foreign language subs, so, it's not a huge issue at the moment, but, I'd like to find a happy balance where I can play my new MKV's with embedded PGS subs AND still bitstream. If that means having to remake half my MKV's from the originals, so be it I guess. I just want to verify before I go through the trouble.

[esoteradactyl]

I have 250+ bluray rips, all using eac3to and none work with haali. I'm guessing tsmuxer and eac3to both do something the splitter doesn't like. I think right now our best bet at getting a splitter that works crrectly, would be to join in on the discussion of the new splitter/muxer SolveigMM. The thread is located here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154055) and developers are active and seem to be interested in feedback/suggestions.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have 250+ bluray rips, all using eac3to and none work with haali. I'm guessing tsmuxer and eac3to both do something the splitter doesn't like. Which software media player are you using?

[SamuriHL]

That would seem to confirm what I'm seeing. However, MakeMKV's stream ripping seems to be more compliant. So, I think for me I'm just going to (eventually) rerip all my titles with MakeMKV and call it good. Haali is a great splitter. It can't really be blamed if the streams aren't fully compliant.

[dbone1026]

That would seem to confirm what I'm seeing. However, MakeMKV's stream ripping seems to be more compliant. So, I think for me I'm just going to (eventually) rerip all my titles with MakeMKV and call it good. Haali is a great splitter. It can't really be blamed if the streams aren't fully compliant.

If you already have AnyDVD an alternative to MakeMKV would be Another EAC3To GUI. The only thing you lose currently that MakeMKV has is PGS subs, but right now those are so scarcely supported in any players that I prefer the IDX/SUB subtitles AEAC creates. I have to assume at some point PGS subtitles will be more universally supported (MKVMerge would have to add support to probably get the ball rolling)

[SamuriHL]

If you already have AnyDVD an alternative to MakeMKV would be Another EAC3To GUI. The only thing you lose currently that MakeMKV has is PGS subs, but right now those are so scarcely supported in any players that I prefer the IDX/SUB subtitles AEAC creates. I have to assume at some point PGS subtitles will be more universally supported (MKVMerge would have to add support to probably get the ball rolling)

I actually enjoy the PGS subs being embedded and the easiness of the MakeMKV UI. Plus, the jury's still out on the eac3to extracted streams and whether or not they at fault for the haali issue. (I need to do testing but I don't have a lot of time today). Add to the fact that MakeMKV will make the MKV directly off the disc, and, well, it's rather convenient. Worth 50 bucks? To me, probably, as it saves a lot of time. With eac3to, you must first extract the streams to the hard drive, then put them back together with mkvmerge. Not as convenient, but, still works well. Other than the aforementioned PGS sub issue. The whole point of this discussion is the fact that with Haali+ffdshow+mpc-hc, I get full support for MKV's with embedded PGS subs. I rather like it. :)

[clsid]

Perhaps you could rip the same movie twice, with the same encoding settings, just with different toolsets. Then the files can be compared, in particular the differences in audio data. Then Haali and the developers of the various tools can maybe figure out what is wrong and what is right. Then the tools can be fixed and Haali could implement a workaround for existing files.

[SamuriHL]

That's a great idea. I can definitely do that maybe tomorrow and see what I find. Even just taking a snippet of each file I should be able to compare them and see what the difference is. I'm attempting to quickly test an eac3to extraction + mkvmerge to see if haali can deal with that. My gut feeling is that tsMuxer is the culprit. If so, then it's not a problem as anyone using the freeware workflow would most likely use ClownBD to rip the streams (eac3to under the covers) and mkvmerge to stitch them together in an MKV container. I'll reply back in a few minutes with my findings on that process.

[SamuriHL]

Woa. I was wrong on my guess. eac3to seems to be the culprit on the messed up dts-hd ma stream. Lemme try pulling the streams with tsMuxer and seeing if that make a difference. Very interesting!

[madshi]

eac3to seems to be the culprit on the messed up dts-hd ma stream.
Huh? eac3to command line + log, please.

[SamuriHL]

Huh? eac3to command line + log, please.

My apologies....I should have phrased that a little better. It was not my intention to offend. :) I'm just trying to find the root cause as to what makes Haali go insane. I have extracted tracks with eac3to using ClownBD as the front end, and then added them to an MKV using mkvmerge and Haali goes nuts.


eac3to v3.20
command line: "C:\Users\samuri\Documents\Scripts\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "G:" 1) 1: "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Chapters_1.txt" 2: "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Video_2.*" 3: "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Audio_3_English.DTS" 5: "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Subtitles_5_English.sup" 15: "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Subtitles_15_English.sup" -progressnumbers -LOG="C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\LOGS\eac3to_PASS3_LOG.LOG"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M2TS, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 15 subtitle tracks, 0:54:44, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 12 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48kHz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48kHz)
4: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB
5: Subtitle (PGS), English
6: Subtitle (PGS), French
7: Subtitle (PGS), Portuguese
8: Subtitle (PGS), Danish
9: Subtitle (PGS), Finnish
10: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
11: Subtitle (PGS), Norwegian
12: Subtitle (PGS), Swedish
13: Subtitle (PGS), Chinese
14: Subtitle (PGS), Chinese
15: Subtitle (PGS), English
16: Subtitle (PGS), Danish
17: Subtitle (PGS), Finnish
18: Subtitle (PGS), Norwegian
19: Subtitle (PGS), Swedish
Creating file "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Chapters_1.txt"...
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[s15] Extracting subtitle track number 15...
[v02] Extracting video track number 2...
[s05] Extracting subtitle track number 5...
[v02] Creating file "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Video_2.h264"...
[a03] Creating file "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Audio_3_English.DTS"...
[s15] Creating file "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Subtitles_15_English.sup"...
[s05] Creating file "C:\Users\Samuri\Videos\CLOWN\Subtitles_5_English.sup"...
Video track 2 contains 78735 frames.
Subtitle track 5 contains 825 captions.
Subtitle track 15 contains 1268 captions.
eac3to processing took 8 minutes, 27 seconds.
Done.


I've just extracted with tsMuxer and am putting another one together with mkvmerge. If that fails, then perhaps mkvmerge is causing some issues? I don't know. I'd just like to find out where the problem is. Again, not trying to stir up trouble here. :)

[SamuriHL]

Ok, the tsMuxer extracted version has the exact same problem. So, maybe mkvmerge? Lemme throw them in a TS file using tsMuxer and see if it has any problems with that.

(again, apologies to madshi. :) Trying not to jump to conclusions and not doing very well with that...would just like to figure this out)

[madshi]

@SamuriHL, no need to apologize (at all). I was just worried that eac3to screws things up. That would have been really bad.

Edit: You could try letting eac3to extract the DTS-HD stream from the MKV. Then compare the original track (extracted by eac3to from the original Blu-Ray) with the track extracted from the MKV. If they're bitwise identical, mkvmerge can't have done so much wrong (except maybe splitting the stream up at weird places).

[SamuriHL]

Well, I feel my statement was hasty at best and I jumped to a conclusion without having all the facts. Since tsMuxer gives me the same results (and an identical dts file might I add) something else is clearly wrong here. I'm just not sure what at the moment. What I know is that if I extract it with anything other than MakeMKV, it doesn't work. If I extract it with MakeMKV it does. I'm going to make one with MakeMKV shortly and compare the audio streams. (I guess I'll use MKVCleaver to extract it from the MakeMKV MKV). We'll see if we can pin this down and fix it.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, last post on this before I head out for a few hours. Ripped with MakeMKV. Plays perfect with Haali. No problems at all. Kinda what we all expect, right? Yea, ok, so, then I took the MKV from MakeMKV, loaded it into mkvmerge UI and just output a new MKV. That's ALL I did. Yea, um, the new one doesn't work right. HELP?!??!

[dbone1026]

I actually enjoy the PGS subs being embedded and the easiness of the MakeMKV UI. Plus, the jury's still out on the eac3to extracted streams and whether or not they at fault for the haali issue. (I need to do testing but I don't have a lot of time today). Add to the fact that MakeMKV will make the MKV directly off the disc, and, well, it's rather convenient. Worth 50 bucks? To me, probably, as it saves a lot of time. With eac3to, you must first extract the streams to the hard drive, then put them back together with mkvmerge. Not as convenient, but, still works well. Other than the aforementioned PGS sub issue. The whole point of this discussion is the fact that with Haali+ffdshow+mpc-hc, I get full support for MKV's with embedded PGS subs. I rather like it. :)

Yeah, I meant that Another EAC3To GUI tool does it all in one click as well, just like MakeMKV (so no need to do the multiple steps you are doing). You are getting PGS subs working in mkvs via MPC HC? I haven't tested in a few monthhs, and Haali was crapping out my players