ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[albain]

Hi,

there are not many changes between 46 and now, in particular I didn't remove any media types, so I am very interested in rica's logs of working bitstream.

Maybe vista needs a specific renderer (mpc wasapi exclusive)

Beta 49 didn't change a lot : the DTS HD stream was not formatted correctly and there was the bug fixed by SamuriHL, that's all

Concerning logs, I need debugview logs of DTSHD and TrueHD
Thanks

[whurlston]

TrueHD definitely works with the Wave Out device as shown in the logs I posted. I'll test with the MPC renderer.

Edit:

I'm afraid rica will have to be the one to produce working DTS-HD logs. I'm unable to reproduce his results with any renderer. The WaveOut is close but not quite working.

[Browncoat]

beta52

0. AC3, DTS - OK

1. Auzentech types
DTS-HD MA, Dolby THD:
- Digital Out (HDMI), default wave out: stereo pcm on avr, no sound [lpcm hd outputs as stereo pcm and I hear sound]
- Dsound, mpc, cyberlink: no sound, no hdmi handshake at all
2. Standard types - HD outputs as pcm

some logs (all dts-hd ma)
http://www.mediafire.com/?ukouwmdumiu

Maybe it's time to contact Auzentech? Maybe there is a good person, who can provide some usefull info. ffdshow support is a competitive advantage, and other cards already have it. They must understand this.

[albain]

I found another difference with beta 46 : the sample rate provided is the encoded one (96000) instead of the HDMI rate (196000)

Here is the link for beta 53 (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3155_20091211_dbt_bitstream_beta53.exe)

I am not sure it will work with waveout though, I may have to include a test on the OS version (if vista requires 96000 and 7 196000)

EDIT :
@Browncoat : your last logs confirmed what I feared. The connection is correctly made this time, FFDShow will pass the same structure as PowerDVD decoder to the renderer (powerdvd renderer) but the renderer fails to render it.
This means that the encryption is required for the auzentech.
I am not very optimistic on that one : I doubt that auzentech will accept to change its behaviour which is intended to be used only with PDVD. There has to be some sort of commercial agreement.
The xonar streams are in clear however.
You may give it a try as a owner of this card to send them this request by explaining what I told : why wouldn't it be possible (or how) for a third party software to send a bitstream format to their card. You may explain that today FFDShow is able to bitstream to the ATIs, xonar and probably to the new nvidia cards (to be confirmed)
HD audio stream don't necessarily have to be protected (even if most of them are) and even though if you want to use another player you can't

[Skinleech]

Albain, logs are requested:

B51:

DTS-HD MA: http://pastebin.com/m6ae7f37c
TrueHD: http://pastebin.com/m475a55ad

B53:

DTS-HD MA: http://pastebin.com/m7e1e8e6d
TrueHD: http://pastebin.com/m7a52f090

[albain]

Thanks Skinleech

DTSHD looks good, it does not work at all ?

Otherwise I found a bug which may affect Vista+ATI
Here is the fixed test build :
http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3155_20091212_dbt_bitstream_beta53b.exe

[Skinleech]

No, all types are good on Xonar, but I still need to use the Arcsoft renderer. That's now on Win7 btw, I ditched my Vista install the otehr day.

I was posting them in regards to your request here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1351898#post1351898

It's only eac3 that I have issues with - and perhaps that's just me.

[albain]

No, all types are good on Xonar, but I still need to use the Arcsoft renderer. That's now on Win7 btw, I ditched my Vista install the otehr day.

I was posting them in regards to your request here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1351898#post1351898

It's only eac3 that I have issues with - and perhaps that's just me.

Okay, so these are the logs from the arcsoft renderer, right ?
Sorry, I made so many requests that I don't always remember the purpose

Actually, concerning the xonar I need debugview logs with non-working renderers (directsound,waveout).
The issue is that other renderers don't work if you check AC3/DTS passthrough but I believe that I fixed this in the last build. The condition is to select "only xonar types" in the drop down list in the ouput section and that should work (I believe)
Thanks:o

[albain]

Sorry again, the last build was buggy again

Here is the right one :
http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3155_20091212_dbt_bitstream_beta53c.exe

On this one if the OS is Vista 96000Hz (encoded sample rate) is sent for DTSHD instead of 196000 (HDMI IEC rate)

EDIT : about LPCM, even the LPCM streams through PowerDVD to the auzentech xfi are encrypted !!

So for now we don't have any good dumper logs of a LPCM stream.
Is any software solution with LPCM working (auzentech apart) : PDVD+ATI or TMT+ATI or TMT+xonar

[SamuriHL]

I found another difference with beta 46 : the sample rate provided is the encoded one (96000) instead of the HDMI rate (196000)

Here is the link for beta 53 (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3155_20091211_dbt_bitstream_beta53.exe)

I am not sure it will work with waveout though, I may have to include a test on the OS version (if vista requires 96000 and 7 196000)

EDIT :
@Browncoat : your last logs confirmed what I feared. The connection is correctly made this time, FFDShow will pass the same structure as PowerDVD decoder to the renderer (powerdvd renderer) but the renderer fails to render it.
This means that the encryption is required for the auzentech.
I am not very optimistic on that one : I doubt that auzentech will accept to change its behaviour which is intended to be used only with PDVD. There has to be some sort of commercial agreement.
The xonar streams are in clear however.
You may give it a try as a owner of this card to send them this request by explaining what I told : why wouldn't it be possible (or how) for a third party software to send a bitstream format to their card. You may explain that today FFDShow is able to bitstream to the ATIs, xonar and probably to the new nvidia cards (to be confirmed)
HD audio stream don't necessarily have to be protected (even if most of them are) and even though if you want to use another player you can't

THIS is the problem MS created for us by not giving a standard PAP API. Everyone implements it their own way, and now we have this mess. Just a wonderful situation...

[SamuriHL]

Sorry again, the last build was buggy again

Here is the right one :
http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3155_20091212_dbt_bitstream_beta53c.exe

On this one if the OS is Vista 96000Hz (encoded sample rate) is sent for DTSHD instead of 196000 (HDMI IEC rate)

EDIT : about LPCM, even the LPCM streams through PowerDVD to the auzentech xfi are encrypted !!

So for now we don't have any good dumper logs of a LPCM stream.
Is any software solution with LPCM working (auzentech apart) : PDVD+ATI or TMT+ATI or TMT+xonar

Define working. :) With PDVD+ATI, anything 48/24 or higher bypasses the windows audio stuff, so, for all intents and purposes we can say that it's "bitstreaming". The TMT+Xonar combination is a little more tricky. The bitrate is always correct, but, the sample rate is up/downsampled to whatever you have set in the Xonar CP if it doesn't match the source. So, for example, you set 96/24 in the Xonar CP and you play a 48/24 track in TMT3. The Xonar CP upsamples that to 96/24 for you. Isn't that nice of it?! :rolleyes: Since I'm o 64 bit 7 I'm not sure there's much I can do to help you on this one but if there's anything I can do just let me know. I can even toss the Xonar back in there if you need me to.

[buzzqw]

i have now installed the nvidia gt240 any hope for hd audio ? (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_240_us.html)
(i can already stream 8ch lpcm, dts, ac3, ddplus, it's somehow an evolution of mGPU 9400)

BHH

[Skinleech]

Okay, so these are the logs from the arcsoft renderer, right ?
Sorry, I made so many requests that I don't always remember the purpose

Actually, concerning the xonar I need debugview logs with non-working renderers (directsound,waveout).
The issue is that other renderers don't work if you check AC3/DTS passthrough but I believe that I fixed this in the last build. The condition is to select "only xonar types" in the drop down list in the ouput section and that should work (I believe)
Thanks:o

I probably misundertood you. Here are the logs requeted, with "only Xonar types" selected. My AVR read mutlichannel but I sound in any case. These were all with B53, not the 53c you posted.

THD (wave out): http://pastebin.com/m7f324de2
THD (Default): http://pastebin.com/m7f80678a
DTS-HD (Waveout): http://pastebin.com/m108d37c0
DTS-HD (Default): http://pastebin.com/m1cc95d9c

[albain]

Actually this is more than a real mess.

From the logs I have seen from TMT this is PCM 32 bits which is outputted so I guess that this is the xonar cp which converts to LPCM on the fly if you really get LPCM on your receiver

This is the reason why I think this is only with an ATI you can get LPCM with the dumper but is it possible with PowerDVD and ATI card ?

@Skinleech : thanks, don't know why but the renderers will refuse what the arcsoft renderer would accept.

So for now other renderers than arcsoft's are nogo (except MPC wasapi ? I don't remember)

However now you should be able to check all bitstream/spdif formats with arcsoft renderer ?
The problem was : if you checked AC3/DTS passthrough then HD bitstream wouldn't work with arcsoft renderer.

I am going to commit the branch if the vista results on the ati are positive with the last beta.

[madshi]

i have now installed the nvidia gt240 any hope for hd audio ?
I don't think so.

[SamuriHL]

Actually this is more than a real mess.

From the logs I have seen from TMT this is PCM 32 bits which is outputted so I guess that this is the xonar cp which converts to LPCM on the fly if you really get LPCM on your receiver

This is the reason why I think this is only with an ATI you can get LPCM with the dumper but is it possible with PowerDVD and ATI card ?

You're going to need someone with 32 bit Vista or 7 to try with your dumper tool. No way to run it on 64 bit unfortunately. But from what I saw, PDVD9 was outputting 32 bit for LPCM, as well. At least that's what it shows in the info screen when I tested it on Ratatouille. I can try to connect to the graph as it's playing and see if I can get any information from that for you. It'll take me a bit to get it set up.

[SamuriHL]

Well that was a bust. I tried using FilterGraph Spy to connect to PDVD9's graph while it's playing. Yea, no. It doesn't connect. It didn't connect to TMT3, either. I must have something set up wrong. Looking to see if I can find more info.

[buzzqw]

I don't think so.

that's stink :sly:

isn't albain build a "fake" pcm with hd audio ?

if so any audio card/devide that are able to output 8ch pcm "should" work ..

or not :scared: ?

BHH

[albain]

that's stink :sly:

isn't albain build a "fake" pcm with hd audio ?

if so any audio card/devide that are able to output 8ch pcm "should" work ..

or not :scared: ?

BHH

Nope
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1351452#post1351452

[SamuriHL]

So filter graph spy does not work for me at all on W7 64. I can see the graph listed in the connect to remote graph dialog, but, when I try to connect to it nothing happens. Oh well. That would have been useful.

[mikelebron]

Albain,

Any though on putting together a white paper on the work that has been done... The team here has been the first to tackle OpenSource HD audio bit streaming anywhere and I for one would be interested in all the good work that was done at a process and technical level?

[buzzqw]

Nope
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1351452#post1351452

could be worth a try with my card or it's already tested ?

anyway.. thanks for your awesome work!

BHH

[Skinleech]

However now you should be able to check all bitstream/spdif formats with arcsoft renderer ?
The problem was : if you checked AC3/DTS passthrough then HD bitstream wouldn't work with arcsoft renderer.

This is correct - I now all all HD formats and AC3/DTS selected and the HD formats bitstream fine.

The error was, as you suspected, that with AC3/DTS selected the Arcsoft renderer would not load. It now does, as I have forced it to load.

Thanks.

[SamuriHL]

Oh man. Ok, you know how I've been saying that the arcsoft renderer no workie for ATI? I just tied with DD/DTS unchecked. Guess what? Working perfectly at least for LPCM and DTS-HD MA. I haven't tried TrueHD yet, but, um...WOOPS!

[whurlston]

So filter graph spy does not work for me at all on W7 64. I can see the graph listed in the connect to remote graph dialog, but, when I try to connect to it nothing happens. Oh well. That would have been useful.

I had this issue until I registered a 32 bit proppage.dll. If you have the Win 7.0 SDK installed, it should be in your C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0\Bin folder. If not, download this one and place it in your C:\Windows\SysWow64 folder (or C:\Windows\System32 for Windows x86).

http://www.oshinetworks.com/DirectShow/ffdshow/proppage_x86.zip

[SamuriHL]

Thanks. I'll give it a shot after we're done watching our movie.

[dehati_paul]

Actually this is more than a real mess.

From the logs I have seen from TMT this is PCM 32 bits which is outputted so I guess that this is the xonar cp which converts to LPCM on the fly if you really get LPCM on your receiver

This is the reason why I think this is only with an ATI you can get LPCM with the dumper but is it possible with PowerDVD and ATI card ?

@Skinleech : thanks, don't know why but the renderers will refuse what the arcsoft renderer would accept.

So for now other renderers than arcsoft's are nogo (except MPC wasapi ? I don't remember)

However now you should be able to check all bitstream/spdif formats with arcsoft renderer ?
The problem was : if you checked AC3/DTS passthrough then HD bitstream wouldn't work with arcsoft renderer.

I am going to commit the branch if the vista results on the ati are positive with the last beta.
@albain - Thanks for all the non-stop hard work!

To clarify/confirm, with the latest build -
1. Does this mean that when I select Xonar from ffdshow pull-down menu the Arcsoft audio renderer is automatically selected?
2. Do all the HD audio formats (including LPCM) work for ATI with default Directsound on Vista?

I have both Xonar and ATI 5xxx on Vista 32 bit, so I am trying to figure out a daily workable solution outside Graphstudio or MPC-HC.

[albain]

@albain - Thanks for all the non-stop hard work!

To clarify/confirm, with the latest build -
1. Does this mean that when I select Xonar from ffdshow pull-down menu the Arcsoft audio renderer is automatically selected?
2. Do all the HD audio formats (including LPCM) work for ATI with default Directsound on Vista?

I have both Xonar and ATI 5xxx on Vista 32 bit, so I am trying to figure out a daily workable solution outside Graphstudio or MPC-HC.

If you have an ATI 5xxx on Vista, please test the last beta build posted in a previous post

1. No, this means that the arcsoft renderer will be fed as expected by FFDShow for all formats but you have to register it and configure it as preferred

2. Don't know, tests awaited !

But LPCM support is not done (LPCM logs needed), and DD+ bitstream is handled by FFDShow but not supported (yet?) by the ATI driver

[whurlston]

Quick test results for Vista + 5770 with beta 53c:

DTS-HD: ffdshow reports bitstreaming with Wave Out but no sound. DirectSound results in decoding.
TrueHD: Still works with WaveOut. DirectSound results in decoding.
LPCM (uncompressed): Works with DirectSound but Windows mixer converts it to default output format. Using Wave Out, playback was stuttering but It may have been because my default output format didn't match the track format.

I should have complete logs for degugger + dumper for you in about an hour.

[SamuriHL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2196/lpcmgraph.png

@albain - I don't know if this helps at all. This is what I got from attaching to the graph of PDVD9 while playing Ratatouille which is LPCM 48/24. I realize you need someone to dump the contents of the buffer as it's being output but I'm not able to do that on my set up.

[73ChargerFan]

If E-AC3 won't go through the current drivers, then will ffdshow decode it to LPCM, which could then be bitstreamed?

Perhaps James (the maintainer of reclock) could help?

[SamuriHL]

Yes, it will decode it to LPCM.

[albain]

Quick test results for Vista + 5770 with beta 53c:

DTS-HD: ffdshow reports bitstreaming with Wave Out but no sound. DirectSound results in decoding.
TrueHD: Still works with WaveOut. DirectSound results in decoding.
LPCM (uncompressed): Works with DirectSound but Windows mixer converts it to default output format. Using Wave Out, playback was stuttering but It may have been because my default output format didn't match the track format.

I should have complete logs for degugger + dumper for you in about an hour.

Okay, thank you whurlston, DTS HD needs to be fixed on vista and we are done
I will release a new build tomorrow morning (8 hours from now)

[Andy o]

i have now installed the nvidia gt240 any hope for hd audio ? (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_240_us.html)
(i can already stream 8ch lpcm, dts, ac3, ddplus, it's somehow an evolution of mGPU 9400)

BHH

How do you stream DD+? With which program/decoder?

Which version of the Nvidia driver are you using, and if you have a 7.1 system, does it swap sides with back surrounds?

[htpc66]

beta53c
AC3,DTS,etc passthrough ALL checked

Xonar Slim/9800GT
Vista Sp1 Asus TMT2
Arcsoft audio renderer

Good News
-TrueHD, DTS HD (HR & MA) and Dolby Digital Plus bitstream (ISOs and files) are working!!

Bad News
-Lpcm and flac cannot play at all - they play (no pass through) with Directsound [Xonar speakers] audio render, instead of Arcsoft audio renderer.

[MatLz]

Hi guys, sorry if it is a little OOT but with this 53c ffAvisynth.dll seems to have a problem. Frameserving is totally impossible and the launch of vdubMod, avsp crashes.

Edit: post:devil:/2

[albain]

Hi guys, sorry if it is a little OOT but with this 53c ffAvisynth.dll seems to have a problem. Frameserving is totally impossible and the launch of vdubMod, avsp crashes.

Edit: post:devil:/2

I may have not recompiled it since a while

I didn't change anything in this part anyway

[MatLz]

My last revision before update to yours was 3138.
Since a lot of revisions I always see that dll at 52.5ko, now it's 57ko.
Well I can't say more about that...
Thx for your work.

[albain]

I have committed the branch to the trunk

Here is a 32 bits build corresponding to it (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3160_20091213_dbt_bitstream_beta54.exe)

I hope that DTS HD will work on vista with ATI

otherwise I need working logs from Rica with the build (beta 46?) that was okay

I will update the first post

[rica]

otherwise I need working logs from Rica with the build (beta 46?) that was okay


Sorry for being so late, i'll be back here in half an hour. (i've been making some trials with 53 and i'll share the results; logs an SSs asap.

[albain]

Sorry for being so late, i'll be back here in half an hour. (i've been making some trials with 53 and i'll share the results; logs an SSs asap.

No problem, you're not in a classroom, take your time :-)

[rica]

Thanks albain.

I can't regenerate the same results with 46; sorry. (i'll give it a shot later since i'm very sure the results i got.)

46 results on Vista SP2 with EDID override by tulli. (i can not get HD audio without it.)


THD with AtiHDMI:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1381/thdwithatihdmi.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/thdwithatihdmi.png/)


THD with WaveOut:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5705/thdwithwave.th.png (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/thdwithwave.png/)

DTSHD with DefaulttDirectSound Device:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4433/dtshdwithdefaultdsdev.th.png (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/dtshdwithdefaultdsdev.png/)

And here are the logs:

THD Logs:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ytmjdyzgytm

DTSHD Logs:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjljnntmiz

I'll give the 53 results seperately.

[rica]

53 RESULTS:


THD:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jymfix0yjw2


DTSHD-MA

http://www.mediafire.com/?zjqzvwtjy4j

[rica]

Here is the driver effect (EDID Override by tulli):

With or without drivers logs: (beta 53)

Without:

http://www.mediafire.com/?dhigmf2fzzh


with:

http://www.mediafire.com/?yftdzhamkaz

[Sebastiii]

Hi Rica :)

Can you post your drivers EDID to compare and try to make mine ?
I'm not recevive my avr and tomorrow i'll phone and .....
I'll try to fake ATI drivers to try something :)
Thx.

@albain :) good work big thx too.

[albain]

Great, everything seems to work just fine :-) !

Merci encore Seb !

[rica]

Hi Rica :)

Can you post your drivers to compare and try to make mine ?
I'm not recevive my avr and tomorrow i'll phone and .....
I'll try to fake ATI drivers to try something :)
Thx.

@albain :) good work big thx too.

Here you are:

First driver by tully:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17628547#post17628547

Second Driver by tulli:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17636454#post17636454

But even debug logs show everything fine with WavOut or AtiHDMI, i can not see Blue HD light on my receiver and no sound with DTSHD-MA while i was getting it some time ago. (you know i haven't regenerated yet.)
For True HD i get blu on receiver and logs show the right info.

I don't understand what's happening?

Check DTSHD gives the same logs with or without drivers. :devil:
On the other hand THD gives different logs as they are.

[Sebastiii]

Thx mate :)
Seb :)

[rica]

54 test results:

Nothing has changed for me with 54.

THD: get blu light and HD sound:

http://www.mediafire.com/?y40nmljh0yz

DTSHD: get nothing even logs say the opposite:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1nmwh1ulkyb


_ _ _ _ _

[albain]

Mmmmm... this is a mistery

I guess that only dumper logs on Vista+ATI+PDVD will be able to tell us more

Beta 46 does not work either ?

Could this be a driver bug ? (catalyst 9.11 versus 9.10)

EDIT :
maybe the channel mask should be set to 0. On TrueHD it was a channel mask problem that would prevent sound to come out