ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[liquidskin76]

Will ffdshow HD audio bitstreaming eventually work with Nvidia GT240? Or it could only ever work with PAP present?

Hi sammy2,

ffdshow proved that PAP isn't required. I believe its usually a driver issue (driver refusing hd media types) with other HDMI1.3 cards that stops them bitstreaming.

Cheers

[Skinleech]

@ Xonar users...

Have any of you tried upgrading to the latest beta patch that SamuriHL linked to a few posts back? MPC-HC now crashes on me if I try to load anything. Removing the Arcsoft Audio renderer from the external filters/output section fixes that.

Even after a regsvr32 /u command and a re-register it hangs MPC. I don't know whether it's just my install, or if the new patch breaks something (maybe to do with bitstreaming via Clarkdale/ATI cards?)

[SamuriHL]

CRAP! I didn't even think about that issue. :( Sorry about that. I should have realized that Xonar users were using the renderer. Yea, they rewrote it for the new bitstreaming model. This is going to be an issue. You'll need to log it as far as you can and see if Albain can figure out what's wrong.

[Skinleech]

No need to apologize, I should have thought oif it too, only took me a few moments of head scratching after the missus said "such and such doesn;t work anymore when I try to watch it" that I figured it out.

Logs to follow right now, if I can even get anything - MPC-HC freezes as soon as I try to open a file.

EDIT:

Here they are:

http://www.mediafire.com/?hog2nnzzwet

Looks like it can't resolve the file type. I logged THD and DTS-HD MA default settings, only Xonar formats and only Xonar formats plus send PCM first.

Regular DTS and AC3 do not work either, I can log them too if needed. Thanks...

[st0niMah0ni]

CRAP! I didn't even think about that issue. :( Sorry about that. I should have realized that Xonar users were using the renderer. Yea, they rewrote it for the new bitstreaming model. This is going to be an issue. You'll need to log it as far as you can and see if Albain can figure out what's wrong.

And whats the solution now?

Deinstall arcsoft and re-install it again??

I cannot play anything with mpc-hc anymore.

And TMT is sending only PCM to my Receiver in all cases.

greetz

[Skinleech]

My plan is to grab anotehr copy of the v1.60 Audio Renderer and stick it in a separate folder to register. Not 100% sure that will work but it should.

TMT bitstreams still for me - but it did change the audio CP options. Go into settings and make sure you have Original Primary Audio selected, not PCM mixing.

[SamuriHL]

Yea, I don't know what the solution is going to be. If they rewrote the audio renderer for bitstreaming with the 5xxx cards and clarkdale then for Xonar we may be screwed for a bit. I'm really hoping Albain can take a look at those logs and see if anything obvious jumps out at him.

[liquidskin76]

@Albain,

Here's the logs for both the Xonar and ATI 5xxx, running on ffdshow v3267.

Xonar

Audio dropouts and loss of audio when seeking.

TrueHD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f39e5d883
DTS-HD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f6b0587c5

(MKV, MPC Matroska Splitter, Arcsoft Audio Renderer)

ATI 5450

Just loss of audio when seeking.

TrueHD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f780dd5a0

(MKV, MPC Matroska Splitter, all compatible audio renderers)

I think all the above is also happening with M2TS and MPC Mpeg Splitter however need to double check.

Thanks!

[Skinleech]

My plan is to grab anotehr copy of the v1.60 Audio Renderer and stick it in a separate folder to register. Not 100% sure that will work but it should.

Yep, that works.

I still have TMT3 v1.70 installed, but unregistered that version of the audio renderer, and copied over a version from 1.60 to a different folder, then registered that.

Reselected the right Arcsoft Audio Renderer in MPC and files are loading again. A stop-gap solution perhaps, but it works.

[albain]

@Albain,

Here's the logs for both the Xonar and ATI 5xxx, running on ffdshow v3267.

Xonar

Audio dropouts and loss of audio when seeking.

TrueHD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f39e5d883
DTS-HD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f6b0587c5

(MKV, MPC Matroska Splitter, Arcsoft Audio Renderer)

ATI 5450

Just loss of audio when seeking.

TrueHD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f780dd5a0

(MKV, MPC Matroska Splitter, all compatible audio renderers)

I think all the above is also happening with M2TS and MPC Mpeg Splitter however need to double check.

Thanks!

Hi,

Let's focus on the ATI first, the problems may be related

were there a working revision with which you didn't get any loss of sync ?


@Xonar users : I think you can get the old version of the arcsoft renderer, copy it somewhere, register it and install the new version of TMT.
Both should work in parallel (because arcsoft filters are not registered, the player address the files directly)

[liquidskin76]

Hi,

Let's focus on the ATI first, the problems may be related

were there a working revision with which you didn't get any loss of sync ?

Hi albain,

I'm new to the ATI so i haven't tested older versions that much.

It's not so much loss of sync, it's loss of audio completely on TrueHD when seeking (mostly seen on mkv chapters). I have to seek back or forward for the audio to return. Its intermitent and not consistent to any single chapter.

I'll do some tests on older versions this afternoon/evening and let you know. Are there any specific versions you want me to test?

Thanks

[liquidskin76]

@albain,

Tested various builds back to 3160 (from XvidVideo.RU) (when hd bitstreaming was merged) on ATI 5450 (using mkv/MPC Matroska Splitter) however i had the same problem on all.

The loss of audio happens when chapter seeking and time line seeking however it's never consistant, and happens at different points.

Do you have any personal beta builds from before 3160 that i can test?

Did manage to test using mt2s/MPC Mpeg Splitter as the one TrueHD m2ts i have hangs when timeline seeking!

Can't test on latest Haali to verify if its the splitter as vid won't play (Haali bug?).

Thanks!

[Skinleech]

@Xonar users : I think you can get the old version of the arcsoft renderer, copy it somewhere, register it and install the new version of TMT.
Both should work in parallel (because arcsoft filters are not registered, the player address the files directly)

Looks like I was wrong in my earlier post, I get no sound at all doing that. I will test uninstalling TMT completely and see what happens.

[SamuriHL]

Did you re-register the arcsoft audio renderer after doing the upgrade? Also, you may have to unregister it before re-registering it in a different location. Windows gets picky about this stuff.

[Skinleech]

Did you re-register the arcsoft audio renderer after doing the upgrade? Also, you may have to unregister it before re-registering it in a different location. Windows gets picky about this stuff.

I sure did, no dice.

Tried unregistering & re-registering the new copy multiple times, but nada. MPC shows that it's loading the Arcsoft renderer, but no sound comes through :(

I may scrap MPC-HC & FFdshow and start from scratch there too - anyone know where the reg entries for MPC are held?

Also, to Xonar owners, the last build of Ffdshow I installed was 3231. How are the newer builds working?

Cheers.

[Skinleech]

Ok, so it's working again. I was possibly/probably doing something wrong, in that I seem to need to choose default direct sound device in MPC's output section in order to get the Arcsoft Audio renderer loading. I think in my previous test I was using the System default setting instead.

Anyway, I fully un-installed TMT3, cleaning our reg entries etc, then re-installed up to 1.60. I think I'll steer clear of the patch until it's not a beta. I can cope with getting the Update message periodically, or I'll update to 1.61. Tomorrow, or more likely over the weekend, I'll experiment with keeping a sperate copy of the Audio Renderer so that TMT3 can be updated without issue.

[nightfly]

I am current running rev3243 (although my sig says 3239). I also recommend going with MPC-HC setting in an ini - it's an option and that allows one to have multiple versions with different settings for testing.

[liquidskin76]

@albain,

Tested various builds back to 3160 (from XvidVideo.RU) (when hd bitstreaming was merged) on ATI 5450 (using mkv/MPC Matroska Splitter) however i had the same problem on all.

The loss of audio happens when chapter seeking and time line seeking however it's never consistant, and happens at different points.

Do you have any personal beta builds from before 3160 that i can test?

Did manage to test using mt2s/MPC Mpeg Splitter as the one TrueHD m2ts i have hangs when timeline seeking!

Can't test on latest Haali to verify if its the splitter as vid won't play (Haali bug?).

Thanks!

Just want to check that i'm not leading albain on a wild goose chase!

Is anyone else on either ATI 5xxx or Xonar, using either MKV/MPC Matroska Splitter or M2TS/MPC Mpeg Splitter, seeing loss of audio when seeking on TrueHD?

Also, anyone else seeing audio dropouts on Xonar on TrueHD?

If so, maybe it would be good to list what container/splitter combo you're using as maybe it's a splitter issue?

Has anyone had any luck with the latest Haali splitter? I get no video.

Cheers

[liquidskin76]

I am current running rev3243 (although my sig says 3239). I also recommend going with MPC-HC setting in an ini - it's an option and that allows one to have multiple versions with different settings for testing.

Hi nightfly,

You mention in your signature that you are using the Arcsoft Splitter. Is that ArcDemux.ax? If so, is it working for MKV's as well as M2TS? Have you any MKV's that you could test? Would be great to know!

Are you seeing any audio dropouts or loss of audio when seeking using this container/splitter combo on TrueHD?

Cheers

[albain]

@albain,

Tested various builds back to 3160 (from XvidVideo.RU) (when hd bitstreaming was merged) on ATI 5450 (using mkv/MPC Matroska Splitter) however i had the same problem on all.

The loss of audio happens when chapter seeking and time line seeking however it's never consistant, and happens at different points.

Do you have any personal beta builds from before 3160 that i can test?

Did manage to test using mt2s/MPC Mpeg Splitter as the one TrueHD m2ts i have hangs when timeline seeking!

Can't test on latest Haali to verify if its the splitter as vid won't play (Haali bug?).

Thanks!

No, builds before 3160 were unstable or buggy.

About Haali, try to uncheck "Use custom media type for h264" in Haali's settings.

There is a bug in FFDShow

[liquidskin76]

About Haali, try to uncheck "Use custom media type for h264" in Haali's settings.

There is a bug in FFDShow

I've got a feeling i tried that however no luck. I'll double check!

[nightfly]

Hi nightfly,

You mention in your signature that you are using the Arcsoft Splitter. Is that ArcDemux.ax? If so, is it working for MKV's as well as M2TS? Have you any MKV's that you could test? Would be great to know!

Are you seeing any audio dropouts or loss of audio when seeking using this container/splitter combo on TrueHD?

Cheers

I have stated this repeatedly...MPC Gabest splitter has issues seeking on THD titles - every version of ffdshow/MPC SA filters I've tried. DTS-MA works fine. Though not every THD title exhibits this - Monsters VS Aliens is an exception as I was able to seek around ok.

The AS splitter works flawlessly with ffdshow 3239/3243 on THD titles - the only drawback is lack of subtitle support and the reason I want to use MPC Gabest splitter (and ability to switch audio streams - but that less important).

[FoLLgoTT]

@all Radeon 5xxx users
Before I buy this card I need to know one thing. Does anyone got bitstreaming via ffdshow to work with custom refresh rates (e.g. 48Hz)?
I own a CRT projector (Sony G90) and otherwise I would need a scaler which converts the 24Hz to 48Hz.

Thanks.

[rasmusb]

Hi everyone!

I'm trying to bitstream TrueHD and DTS-MA but I'm only having partial success. Any suggestion or help is appreciated!

My problem:
TrueHD does not bitstream at all. It gets decoded by ffdshow and gets passed to the receiver as LPCM. I have tried it in .m2ts container and muxed to mkv. I have attached a DebugView log from trying a TrueHD track. I guess this part of the log says it all?
00000289 1.22496104 [1308] TaudioParser::getSupportedFormat no compatible format supported
00000290 1.22498965 [1308] TaudioParser::getCodecIdFromStream truehd
00000291 1.22502077 [1308] TffdshowDecAudioInputPin : switching codec from AC3 s/pdif to truehd
DTS-MA works but has drop-outs about once every 3-5 seconds.
Also, when pausing in mpc-hc the audio gets in a weird feedback loop where it goes from silent to very loud in about 10 seconds. Unpausing or exiting mpc-hc turns of the noise. This is the same as when playing a TrueHD track and only seems to appear with the MPC audio renderer.

My system:
Vista x64.
ATI HD 5670, Catalyst 10.2 drivers, ATI HDMI audio driver.
ffdshow 3268 x86 (from xvidvideo.ru)
MPC HC 1.3.1586 x86 (from xvidvideo.ru)
I'm using Mpeg/Matoska source from mpc-hc and MPC Audio renderer. Haali splitter is uninstalled.
My receiver is a Denon 1909. I have installed Tullis EDID override for a Sony TV.

Any suggestion leading me in the right direction would be very appreciated. I would gladly try any idea to get me further.

Regards,
Rasmus

[liquidskin76]

My receiver is a Denon 1909. I have installed Tullis EDID override for a Sony TV.

Have you also installed an EDID override for your ATI HDMI / Denon? I think you should be able to use an existing Denon EDID override, even if it's not an exact model match. I did for my Sony AVR.

Cheers

[liquidskin76]

@Albain,

Here's the logs for both the Xonar and ATI 5xxx, running on ffdshow v3267.

Xonar

Audio dropouts and loss of audio when seeking.

TrueHD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f39e5d883
DTS-HD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f6b0587c5

(MKV, MPC Matroska Splitter, Arcsoft Audio Renderer)

ATI 5450

Just loss of audio when seeking.

TrueHD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=f780dd5a0

(MKV, MPC Matroska Splitter, all compatible audio renderers)

I think all the above is also happening with M2TS and MPC Mpeg Splitter however need to double check.

Thanks!

@albain,

You can forget about the audio dropouts on the Xonar. I believe it's to do with the Asus ION motherboard i run the Xonar slim on. Hasn't got enough juice to run everything! :D

So it's just the loss of audio on TrueHD whilst seeking, on both ATI 5xxx and Xonar (like you said, i expect it's related).

Cheers!

[rasmusb]

Have you also installed an EDID override for your ATI HDMI / Denon? I think you should be able to use an existing Denon EDID override, even if it's not an exact model match. I did for my Sony AVR.

Cheers

I have installed one .inf file titled "Sony 52W5500 - DENON AVR1910" over the "Generic PnP Monitor" device. How do I install an override for the ATI HDMI device? Or do I misunderstand you?

[liquidskin76]

I have installed one .inf file titled "Sony 52W5500 - DENON AVR1910" over the "Generic PnP Monitor" device. How do I install an override for the ATI HDMI device? Or do I misunderstand you?

Are you running just the one display via hdmi? If so, ignore what i said! I was thinking of 2 seperate monitors devices.

[David602]

EDIT: Found out what the problem is.


I think i've discovered a compatibility problem with a few TrueHD tracks that were ripped with eac3to/MKVMKERGE.

I've been using FFDSHOW to bitstream DTS HD and TrueHD with great success since the early builds.

I converted my entire library over to .MKV from ISO rips and then I discovered a few rips with True HD play with distortion/static when in .MKV format only, when ripped with eac3to/mkvmerge.

I can still hear the audio track, it's not entirely static, but it has a muffled/distortion sound on it.

At first I thought this was a bad ffdshow build but I've gone back and tested builds since the beginning and it happens in all of them that I tested.

I then thought it was something specific to my Xonar/Pioneer system but I just built a new Clarksdale system yesterday and it's experiencing the exact same problem.

These are some of the discs where I've experienced audio distortion/static so far:
Indiana Jones 4 (H.264 / TrueHD)
Defiance (H.264 / True HD)
The Matrix (VC-1 / True HD)

Based on my testing, the same clips play fine in .m2ts but not .mkv:

Original disc - MPC/FFDSHOW & TMT3 bitstreams TrueHD fine with no distortion
Rip movie to .m2ts - MPC/FFDSHOW bitstreams TrueHD fine with no distortion
Rip movie to BDMV structure - TMT3 bitstreams TrueHD fine with no distortion
Rip movie to .MKV - MPC/FFDSHOW bitstreams with distortion/static
Rip Movie to .MKV - Disable bitstream in FFDSHOW, and enable decoding, plays LPCM with no distortion


I've uploaded 2 samples, I'm hoping someone can try to reproduce the error, especially Samuri since he has a Pioneer or Andy since he has a Clarksdale.

Matrix w/ True HD .MKV (50 MB)
Ripped with eac3to/mkvmerge
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SHYNECBI

Matrix w/ True HD .M2TS (50 MB)
Ripped with Tsmuxer
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=39DL1G18

Setup #1)
Xonar HDAV 1.3 deluxe
Pioneer VSX-01TXH

MPC-HC build 1635 (x86)
MPC Matroska Splitter (internal to MPC)
FFDSHOW rev 3247 (x86)
Arcsoft Renderer (TMT3 .160)

Setup #2)
Intel Clarksdale H55
Pioneer VSX-01TXH
-- different HDMI cable and different input port on receiver

MPC-HC Build 1680 (x86)
MPC Matroska Splitter (internal to MPC)
FFDSHOW rev 3274 (x86)


Just to confirm, all DTS HD MA tracks bitstream fine. All OTHER TrueHD tracks bitstream fine. It's just a few select TrueHD tracks that do this.

EDIT UPDATE:
I re-ripped the discs using MakeMKV and they work fine! This distortion is occuring with eac3to/mkvmerge only!

[albain]

Thanks for all your tests, and great news

So the muxer is faulty

[liquidskin76]

hi albain,

did u have any luck replicating the loss of audio when seeking on truehd with your ati, using mkv/mpc matroska splitter or m2ts/mpc mpeg splitter ?

thanks!

[liquidskin76]

Hi David602,

Have you experienced loss of audio when seeking on your Xonar with mkv / matroska splitter?

Cheers

[David602]

Hi David602,

Have you experienced loss of audio when seeking on your Xonar with mkv / matroska splitter?

Cheers

No - it's pretty solid. When you say loss of audio, are you referring to just a few seconds of silence while it catches up or total loss until something is done to fix it?

Sometimes it may be silent for a few seconds but it's worked pretty well.

[David602]

Hey Albain... FFDSHOW DXVA doesn't work with the Clarksdale. Are there any plans to add this support? I saw that Intel put out an SDK to make it easy to code to it.

[albain]

hi albain,

did u have any luck replicating the loss of audio when seeking on truehd with your ati, using mkv/mpc matroska splitter or m2ts/mpc mpeg splitter ?

thanks!

My receiver is out of order, can't tell you

Normally when seeking occurs ffdshow resets the buffers to find a sync word.

The only way to debug this is to make a build that traces the buffers (not the content, only type & size) that it gets.

It is not very difficult but this takes time. I'll try to do this this week or next WE as I have nearly finished my work on bluray subs

[albain]

I found a bug in ffdshow while seeking occurs.

I don't know why but after seeking the timestamps are negative and the frames are dropped (which is normal)

[albain]

I think I nailed it !

Revision 3278

[liquidskin76]

I think I nailed it !

Revision 3278

albain, i love you man!

[Sebastiii]

Me too :) lol
Thx,
Seb.

[rica]

Can't find the link to 3278?

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

Not compil yet :)
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

This is awesome news. I need to get all the latest stuff installed and try it out. Let's see here...dxva support, bd subs, and bug fixed bitstreaming. Hmm, yea, that sounds nice. :D

[Sebastiii]

This is awesome news. I need to get all the latest stuff installed and try it out. Let's see here...dxva support, bd subs, and bug fixed bitstreaming. Hmm, yea, that sounds nice. :D

Yes :) i have a little more time this week-end so i have made somes tests and find somes issues and old issues. But for Audio Bitstream all works good and if the fix for seek and THB works great -> it's very very very great stuff :)

Thx Albain :
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

My time has been limited the past few weeks. Between my job situation, my second HTPC blowing up....twice, and now my cable box dying...twice, I haven't had a lot of time to mess around with anything. Hopefully things will calm down a bit this week.

[Sebastiii]

@SamuriHL :) how you cut .m2ts to make a little sample ? please ;)
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

My time has been limited the past few weeks. Between my job situation, my second HTPC blowing up....twice, and now my cable box dying...twice, I haven't had a lot of time to mess around with anything. Hopefully things will calm down a bit this week.

whouuu bad luck, i hope all that good now :)

[SamuriHL]

@SamuriHL :) how you cut .m2ts to make a little sample ? please ;)
Seb.

I use tsMuxer. You can set a start and end point and it'll just output that section.

[SamuriHL]

whouuu bad luck, i hope all that good now :)

Most of it is. Job may be ok. HTPC is fixed. Cable box is still screwed til tomorrow.

[Sebastiii]

Cool :) i'll test it now :)

[David602]

Is anyone on a clarksdale able to play LPCM tracks? I'm referring to tracks that come as LPCM on the disc (Pirates of the Carribean, etc.)?

I'm getting PIN errors, the splitter cannot even connect to FFDSHOW.