ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion [Archive] - Page 22

STaRGaZeR

7th January 2010, 00:19

If I remember correctly in AMD GPU Clock Tool you can see if you're indeed using UVD. It could be useful if you don't really know if you're using it or not. Be careful with MPEG-2, because MPEG-2 IDCT doesn't use UVD. You can be using it with the program reporting UVD as IDLE. But for H.264 and VC-1 VLD is 100% accurate in my experience.

Also for the dropouts, have you guys tried with audio only files to see if the problem is gone? Like muxing DTS-HD and TrueHD tracks alone in MKV.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 00:24

So far I think it's only been confirmed with DD/DTS files, but your idea still stands. Nobody thinks it's likely we'd get dropouts though cause it only happens when video decoding in SW mode is involved, and with certain video renderers it's better/worse/doesn't seem to happen.

rica

7th January 2010, 00:36

I think that setting doesn't do anything for bluray (check your CPU usage), and also, do those movies have DD/DTS legacy audio?

Appreciated.
Really you're right; even you may tick or untick HW mode box you always stay on DXVA mode.

The conclusion:
None of the current players can bitstream without dropouts while video selected in SW mode.
Related with drivers or not, dunno?

STaRGaZeR

7th January 2010, 00:47

rica

7th January 2010, 01:02

albain,

the latest status:

rev.3181 fixed Pio owners DTSHD issues without EDID override.

Selecting Video in SW mode causes audio dropouts is not a ffdshow issue but a common issue of all the current players; most probably it's up to drivers' issue.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 01:09

This thread is great. Many thanks for your hard work RE'ing this thing albain!

What's the status of LPCM bitstreaming? I remember reading that it could be possible to decode any audio format to PCM inside ffdshow, then reformat the stream to LPCM and send it losslessly to the receiver, right?

You need to use exclusive mode for that. I MPC audio renderer uses exclusive mode, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with all formats. You can still use ReClock for that, which works perfect with the Realtek 2.39 drivers and these ATI 5000 cards.

STaRGaZeR

7th January 2010, 01:24

You need to use exclusive mode for that. I MPC audio renderer uses exclusive mode, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with all formats. You can still use ReClock for that, which works perfect with the Realtek 2.39 drivers and these ATI 5000 cards.

I know exclusive mode doesn't work for sending the PCM stream directly to the DAC of my Creative X-Fi without being touched, as all options, equalizer, etc. from the Creative Control Panel work. Does it happen with the HD5xxx's as well? The goal here would be, for example, to decode FLAC losslessly, then send the LPCM stream to the receiver without any kind of Windows or audio driver interference.

rica

7th January 2010, 01:29

I know exclusive mode doesn't work for sending the PCM stream directly to the DAC of my Creative X-Fi without being touched, as all options, equalizer, etc. from the Creative Control Panel work. Does it happen with the HD5xxx's as well? The goal here would be, for example, to decode FLAC losslessly, then send the LPCM stream to the receiver without any kind of Windows or audio driver interference.

Check this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15770959#post15770959

STaRGaZeR

7th January 2010, 01:38

Check this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15770959#post15770959

Unfortunately WASAPI exclusive mode does bypass the OS mixer, but it doesn't bypass the audio driver, all controls still work.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 01:42

rica

7th January 2010, 01:45

Unfortunately WASAPI exclusive mode does bypass the OS mixer, but it doesn't bypass the audio driver, all controls still work.

If you are on Vista and with an Xi-Fi, seems to me impossible.
You might have missing something?
If you are on WASAPI mode you must never control anything.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 01:49

Depends on the driver. With the Xonar HDAV for instance, WASAPI exclusive does bypass the Windows mixer, but the Xonar driver resamples and switches the channel to whatever you set the Xonar control panel to. It's probably the same with the X-Fi.

STaRGaZeR

7th January 2010, 03:23

That's for your Creative, and by the way, it's the same way with the Xonar HDAV. For the ATI cards (4000 and 5000) it's not. You can bypass the PCM stream directly to your receiver. You'll need the Realtek 2.39 driver though. Do you have a 4000 or a 5000 card?

Good to know. I have a 5850, but using the X-Fi right know. Will use it in a future build :)

If you are on Vista and with an Xi-Fi, seems to me impossible.
You might have missing something?
If you are on WASAPI mode you must never control anything.

Yes, Vista and X-Fi Titanium. Once you think you have bit-perfect output, change your Crystalizer or equalizer settings, you'll hear how they change the sound, something that should not happen if it were bit-perfect playback. Only Creative knows what kind of damage they're doing in this case.

SamuriHL

7th January 2010, 03:27

Yes, Vista and X-Fi Titanium. Once you think you have bit-perfect output, change your Crystalizer or equalizer settings, you'll hear how they change the sound, something that should not happen if it were bit-perfect playback. Only Creative knows what kind of damage they're doing in this case.

You will not be able to get around that problem. It's caused by the driver, same as the Xonar.

STaRGaZeR

7th January 2010, 04:40

You will not be able to get around that problem. It's caused by the driver, same as the Xonar.

Yep. That's why I'm interested in LPCM bitstreaming :)

Anyone here with an Auzen? Working TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreaming? I don't really want to lose the X-Fi's EAX and game related features, something the Auzen cards have.

SamuriHL

7th January 2010, 04:45

Yep. That's why I'm interested in LPCM bitstreaming :)

Anyone here with an Auzen? Working TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreaming? I don't really want to lose the X-Fi's EAX and game related features, something the Auzen cards have.

That was my point, though. I don't think with your current card that LPCM bitstreaming will be possible thanks to your driver.

The Auzen works with PDVD9. I don't think it works with ffdshow but I could be wrong.

whurlston

7th January 2010, 06:42

Setup (includes all combinations of renderers tested):

ffdshow tryouts SVN 3164
MPC MPEG2 Video Decoder (Gabest)
VMR9
EVR
GraphStudio
WinDVD 2010 (with hardware acceleration disabled)
ATI 5770
Catalyst video driver 9.12
Realtek HDMI driver 2.39
Bitstreamed DTS and AC3 DVD tracks (Brotherhood of the Wolf)

Results:

I get no audio dropouts using any combination.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 07:24

You were using Graphstudio or MPC-HC?

Although that's weird that I get dropouts on WinDVD.

whurlston

7th January 2010, 07:56

GraphStudio with the MPC-HC video decoder. I still have to load MPC-HC on that machine but the TV is in the livingroom and the AVR/HTPC are in the basement I need to get a keyboard to upstairs where I can use it and see what I'm doing. :D

Oh, I used the Default DirectSound device in GraphStudio.

David602

7th January 2010, 08:18

I've tried the new ffdshow that Albain posted and i've found success!! I also have one weird side effect (probably more related to MPC).

In Win 7 x64bit / Xonar / Pioneer receiver:
DTS HD MA bitstreams fine
DTS HD HR bitsreams fine
TrueHD bitstreams fine (like it did before)

When I play h.264 content, it says DXVA and Play->Filters show it using:
Arcsoft Audio Renderer
EVR Custom
FFDSHOW audio
MPC Video Decoder

Playback is smooth and bitstreaming audio is fine.

When I play VC1 content, it does NOT display DXVA but it still bitstreams audio fine. For VC1, it defaults to Microsoft's codec. Play-Filters show it using:

Arcsoft Audio Renderer
EVR Custom
FFDSHOW audio
WM Video Decoder DMO ***

Under Options in MPC-HC, I only have 2 splitters enabled: (Mastroka and MPEG PS/TS/PVA). Under transform filters, I have it checked to use VC1 (DXVA) and of course H264 AVC (DXVA).

So for some reason, it's not using its own internal filter and it's being overridden by Microsoft's codec.

Strangely, if I add the MS codec as an external filter and set it to "block", when I go to play the file, MPC reports that the splitter cannot find a video filter to connect to.

I went ahead and registered MPCVideoDec.ax from the latest standalone beta build as a filter then set it as preferred in MPC as an external filter.

When playing the clip, it STILL DOES NOT show DXVA and then the clip has audio drop outs and CPU utilization is 80%-100%.

Play->Filters show it using:
Arcsoft Audio Renderer
EVR Custom
FFDSHOW audio
MPC Video Decoder

This looks the same as H264 content that is DXVA accelerated but strangely, VC1 refuses to enable DXVA.

This is a pretty recent install of W7 (about 1 week) and I haven't installed anything except FFDSHOW and MPC-HC.

Any ideas? Did I get a bad beta build of MPC or the standalone filters?

Andy o

7th January 2010, 08:25

You're probably playing an interlaced VC-1 video?

Andy o

7th January 2010, 08:26

albain

7th January 2010, 08:46

About LPCM support, this won't be for today, I don't have the time for now.

I have Seb's logs though to work on it.

@whurlston : are you sure that you don't get hardware decoding with your tests, because MPEG2 don't necessarily use DXVA but can use hardware acceleration.

Also have you tried with a more recent ffdshow build if it makes any difference (such as the last beta I posted) ?

Andy o

7th January 2010, 08:56

LPCM is not really a priority with ffdshow, one can always use ReClock :D Thanks again for this great effort albain.

whurlston

7th January 2010, 09:01

@whurlston : are you sure that you don't get hardware decoding with your tests, because MPEG2 don't necessarily use DXVA but can use hardware acceleration.I'm sure. The MPC MPEG2 decoder does not support DXVA (confirmed with DXVA Checker), which is why I used it for the test.

Also have you tried with a more recent ffdshow build if it makes any difference (such as the last beta I posted) ?Not yet, I will do that tomorrow though. I'll be snowed in so should have plenty of time for testing. :)

Skinleech

7th January 2010, 09:19

I've yest to try the latest beta (that's on the cards for tonight) but I can confirm that the audio dropouts happen using the Xonar in software mode also.

I still can't bitstream Dolby Digital PLus on the Xonar either. I will get some logs though as each time i check this thread there are 2 or 3 more pages they may get lost again...

David602

7th January 2010, 09:21

You're probably playing an interlaced VC-1 video?

It's a BD rip of Bourne Ultimatum to MKV:

ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : AP@L3
Codec ID : WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 1h 55mn
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive

Same thing happens with a few others I've tried...

Andy o

7th January 2010, 09:43

I still can't bitstream Dolby Digital PLus on the Xonar either. I will get some logs though as each time i check this thread there are 2 or 3 more pages they may get lost again...

Was DD+ ever added for the Xonar? AFAIK it never worked.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 09:51

It's a BD rip of Bourne Ultimatum to MKV:

ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : AP@L3
Codec ID : WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 1h 55mn
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive

Same thing happens with a few others I've tried...

What build of MPC-HC are you using?

Skinleech

7th January 2010, 11:27

Was DD+ ever added for the Xonar? AFAIK it never worked.

Maybe not - the front page lists DD+ as supported on Xonar though.

I can't even get my DD+ files to play, they just freeze.

liquidskin76

7th January 2010, 12:03

Has anyone heard anymore rumours about the ati 5350 card? I know of the leaked HP info about possible Jan 7th release.

Curious if it will carry the same hardware and HD bitstream capabilities as the higher end 5xxx cards. Hopefully it will and will be low profile and fanless (or bloody small silent fan!)

Great work gang on sorting the DTS-HD issues. I've abandoned my xonar as i've gone to a low profile case and pci-e itx motherboard (rules out xonar slim as only pci... god knows why Asus made that choice!).

SamuriHL

7th January 2010, 18:57

The entire 5xxx line is supposed to use the same audio chipset, which means bitstreaming will work.

Andy o

7th January 2010, 19:03

Even mobility Radeon 5000's (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3711) have bitstreaming capabilities, it seems.

SamuriHL

7th January 2010, 19:08

liquidskin76

7th January 2010, 21:47

Cool, cheers for the ATI 5xxx info guys!

Andy o

8th January 2010, 00:02

WOA! That could get me to upgrade my laptop a year earlier than I planned right there. I've wanted to go quad core on my laptop anyway, but, um, you give me some bitstreaming and maybe even some gaming love on a mobile platform and I'm going to have to seriously look at that. (Don't worry, my Sony won't go to waste....in all likelihood my son would inherit it) Most impressive!

Exactly what I was thinking. I want a 32 nm CPU at least for my laptop though, and if I'm not gonna use the Arrandale GPU it seems like wasted space. What the heck was Intel thinking, not releasing quad-core Westmeres without GPU! That would have been the perfect CPU at least for this year. Mobile Sandy Bridge is probably what, two years away? Seems they're not putting up much effort on Westmere, just treating it as a transition architecture (or super high-end with 6-core Gulftown).

SamuriHL

8th January 2010, 00:07

Exactly what I was thinking. I want a 32 nm CPU at least for my laptop though, and if I'm not gonna use the Arrandale GPU it seems like wasted space. What the heck was Intel thinking, not releasing quad-core Westmeres without GPU! That would have been the perfect CPU at least for this year. Mobile Sandy Bridge is probably what, two years away? Seems they're not putting up much effort on Westmere, just treating it as a transition architecture (or super high-end with 6-core Gulftown).

Yup. These are all reasons I was planning on waiting another year and a half to see what the landscape looked like in summer 2011. I still may hold off. We'll see. I tend to buy a new laptop every 3 years and I got the Sony in August 08. It's a very nice machine with BD burning, so, I really have little complaint. However, full bitstreaming support off a laptop would seriously rock. :)

Andy o

8th January 2010, 00:13

That board does look very similar to my 9200m GS. I'm pretty sure at least the PCIe port would be the same, though even if one could swap it, I don't know how it would connect to the HDMI and VGA ports on my laptop. Probably a super long shot.

SamuriHL

8th January 2010, 00:15

HIGHLY unlikely that'd work. I have a 3450 and I doubt I could even upgrade that. It'd be nice though.

liquidskin76

8th January 2010, 10:04

Any news on nvidia's plans for hd bitstreaming? Looks like fermi's delayed until march however i can't find any info on it's hd audio capabilities.

With dx11 and hd audio bitstreaming, it looks likes ATI got's the jump on nvidia big time!

Andy o

8th January 2010, 11:43

ATI's always had the jump on Nvidia on digital audio, ever since the HD2000 series, and even on graphics now since the 4000 series at least. And seeing how Nvidia has handled even 7.1 LPCM (half-assed is probably too generous), I wouldn't have high hopes for Fermi.

ATI HD 2000 series all had SPDIF-like audio over HDMI, Nvidia didn't. Some cards had SPDIF input to output from the HDMI out of the card, but it was something the manufacturers added, it wasn't Nvidia. Plus you still needed an SPDIF output from your mobo and make it compatible with the input on the card.

ATI HD 3000 series pretty much the same, Nvidia had no interest in improving their situation.

ATI HD 4000 series has 7.1 LPCM and drivers kept improving so today it's pretty much flawless even with WASAPI exclusive. Nvidia only had it for certain laptops (mine for instance, only offers 2.0 and 7.1, NO 5.1) and a couple of motherboard "mGPU"'s. Drivers sucked, with the most glaring problem being the inversion of side and back surrounds on 7.1. They fixed that with one driver. Then they broke it again with another (AFAIK it's still broken). WASAPI exclusive support is awful. I'm not sure how the GT200 low-end cards fix this, but as Anandtech put it for the GT240 (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3709) (and I'd extend that to the whole family), that's the card that doesn't matter.

That takes us where we are now. ATI 5000 series already has pretty good drivers and a couple of minor bugs (or ones you can get around). Maybe Intel's less-than-sudden serious interest in all this with Clarkdale/Arrandale will wake Nvidia up?

Also, Nvidia's philosophy of confusing names and shameless rebranding (both on purpose, I'm sure), and putting out super power hungry, super expensive cards first (by the time the midrange comes out they're uninteresting), makes it not worth my time researching for which Nvidia card would suit me.

Andy o

8th January 2010, 11:53

oops sorry, that was a bit of a rant. :D

liquidskin76

8th January 2010, 12:18

No problem... let rip!

I've been an nvidia man for a long time however i'm starting to be converted to ATI. Bring on the low profile 5xxx cards is all i can say!

DigitalDeviant

8th January 2010, 13:04

No problem... let rip!

I've been an nvidia man for a long time however i'm starting to be converted to ATI. Bring on the low profile 5xxx cards is all i can say!

Can anyone confirm that Ati 5xxx cards properly upsample chroma? I'd love to get one but my last Ati card handled chroma like crap. I'd rather not have to get a Xonar.

arestarh

8th January 2010, 14:05

albain
Hello!
I'm again about problems with translation:
I can't open in translation mode dialogs:
http://i044.radikal.ru/0912/8c/4f224226244at.jpg (http://radikal.ru/F/i044.radikal.ru/0912/8c/4f224226244a.png.html)
And even I manually edit file of localization(add necessary strings), *Add* and *Reset* buttons in both dialogs and also dialog *Use ffdshow only in* is not appeared in GUI:
http://i056.radikal.ru/1001/8f/c5f527d8a0e5t.jpg (http://radikal.ru/F/i056.radikal.ru/1001/8f/c5f527d8a0e5.png.html)
simply, I can't translate this elements...

And about section of Subtitles in configuration dialog.
I can't translate this dialog:
http://i061.radikal.ru/1001/02/415cb72eae26t.jpg (http://radikal.ru/F/i061.radikal.ru/1001/02/415cb72eae26.png.html)

Andy o

8th January 2010, 14:50

Can anyone confirm that Ati 5xxx cards properly upsample chroma? I'd love to get one but my last Ati card handled chroma like crap. I'd rather not have to get a Xonar.

What exactly do you mean? I have had a 4670, 4550 (briefly) and a 5770 on a Kuro KRP-500 and haven't noticed any trouble. How are you testing? I had a couple of PS3 (fat and slim) for a while and watched some blurays, and didn't notice any obvious difference in video quality.

FWIW, the 5000 series support 30-bit deep color and my monitor which is capable, does report 30-bit with the 5770 and Windows 7.

EDIT: Never mind. I think I know what you mean. I had pixelated reds on some videos, but was noticeable only on full screen from SD videos. That was fixed with madVR or RGB conversion in ffdshow with dithering. Not a big problem. That was with the 4670. I'm not sure how the 5770 fares, but I'll test again.

STaRGaZeR

8th January 2010, 17:10

Can anyone confirm that Ati 5xxx cards properly upsample chroma? I'd love to get one but my last Ati card handled chroma like crap. I'd rather not have to get a Xonar.

In EVR you need NV12. If you use XP and overlay, you need YV12 for proper chroma upsampling.

Or you can convert things properly to RGB32 in ffdshow and forget about the issue.

DigitalDeviant

8th January 2010, 17:32

In EVR you need NV12. If you use XP and overlay, you need YV12 for proper chroma upsampling.

Or you can convert things properly to RGB32 in ffdshow and forget about the issue.

And in a perfect world I would have control over all my video output but unfortunately I don't see a lot of web based players giving you the option on how video is decoded or rendered. If a graphics card can't handle a proper conversion to RGB, something that should be pretty freeking basic, then I can't use it.

nightfly

8th January 2010, 18:19

Can someone with a Xonar test the Star Trek BD? It's the only title I still get drop outs on and essentially is unwatchable using bitstreaming ffdshow.

For whatever reason, my other troublesome THD titles, if I use the Arcsoft Demux filter play fine using either s/pdif or speakers for the playback device.

My two filters setup (via external filters in MPC-HC):
This is my preferred setup:

MPC MPEG Spiltter v1481
Arcosft Video Decoder/MPC Video Decoder (depends on video format)
ffdshow audio decoder
EVR CP
Arcsoft Audio Renderer

My setup that works on all THD titles tested but StarTrek:
Arcsoft Demux
Arcsoft Vid Decoder
ffdshow aud decoder
EVR CP
Arcsoft Aud Renderer

I thought that before the playback setting in Windows mattered - it doesn't. I am currently leaning toward the splitter filter being the key.

Unfortunately, the StarTrek movie has only one m2ts file for the entire thing at ~36GB or I'd upload a sample.