ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion

[Andy o]

Are there any work-arounds or other ideas to fix this issue when bitstreaming to a Pioneer receiver from an ASUS Xonar HDAV?

Using TMT3, the Xonar bitstreams DTS HD to my pioneer receiver just fine.

I wish I knew. I can also bitstream DTS-HD with WinDVD 2010, but not with ffdshow. Seems to be only us Pioneer owners though, so I don't know where's the problem.

When the PS3 Slim got its 3.00 update, many (me included) with Pioneer receivers got their bitstreaming screwed too (worked fine with 2.76). Some people called up Pioneer and updated their firmware, and claimed that fixed it. After that, Sony released their next update which would fix the issue for everyone, so even those who didn't update are apparently OK now.

So, you could try updating your firmware, but it's a lot of hassle. I've been trying to find a way to do it, but it seems you have to send in your receiver. If I do, I'll be without any TV or movies at all for that time, my TV is not a TV but a monitor without speakers.

[rica]

andy, just contact with tulli and give him some EDID info.

[Andy o]

I think this is something else than EDID though. Did it fix it for others? I am bitstreaming fine everything with WinDVD. Does Tulli's patch work when the problem is only with DTS-HD and ffdshow?

[Andy o]

Anyway, I'm not using the 5750 anymore, I think mine is defective anyway (for other reasons). I will try later on, but I have to read back to see what I need to do. Isn't it just that I have to install the patch Tulli published a while ago, or does he need any info from me?

[rica]

Just PM to him.

[Andy o]

I'm waiting for another 5750, so I'll do it then, but do you know if it fixed this Pioneer/DTS-HD/ffdshow specific problem for others?

[rica]

No, dunno.

[kkozma]

Well, I finally made the jump to win7. Got everything set up and I'm disappointed to say you can add me to the list of people with a 4XXX card that doesn't work either. All I get is a bunch of static and my AVR shows PCM MULTI. :( Oh well, guess I'll be upgrading when the 55XX series cards show up.

[Andy o]

The "list of people" that have a 4000 card that doesn't bitstream "HD" formats is everyone. The 4000 series never worked for that. You can still use WASAPI exclusive with the Realtek 2.39 driver and TMT3 for pretty much the same effect. I have some problems with it (the R2.39 driver) and ReClock, but it could be something particular with my system.

[rica]

andy, this is for you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17795851#post17795851

And the fix, i hope:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17795910#post17795910
__ _ _ _ _ _ _

[rica]

OK, seems we need another tester:

Sorry ...
My AVR is a Pioneer VXS-LX51 (european model).

acta.

Here is tulli's latest Pioneer override driver; pls check it : (post 2680)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17795910#post17795910

[kkozma]

The "list of people" that have a 4000 card that doesn't bitstream "HD" formats is everyone. The 4000 series never worked for that. You can still use WASAPI exclusive with the Realtek 2.39 driver and TMT3 for pretty much the same effect. I have some problems with it (the R2.39 driver) and ReClock, but it could be something particular with my system.

Arcsoft won't get a penny of my money until they at least announce intentions of supporting bitstreaming with something other than an obsolete hdmi sound card. The fact they won't even say yes or no is utter bullsh!t IMO.

[Andy o]

Well, OK that's your opinion, but I don't know why you were disappointed to find that the 4000 series don't bitstream. Yeah, your best bet is to get a 5000 card, but I don't see why Arcsoft has the obligation to support any cards for bitstreaming. The other players have other troubles that for some people might be even worse than not bitstreaming. PowerDVD for instance, right now has a bug where DVD's aren't being played. I swore off cyberlink not because of one feature they didn't happen to have, but because the direction they took with updates, actually removing features and breaking compatibility with Slysoft's products. Arcsoft has pretty much been the opposite in that regard.

[kkozma]

Well, OK that's your opinion, but I don't know why you were disappointed to find that the 4000 series don't bitstream. Yeah, your best bet is to get a 5000 card, but I don't see why Arcsoft has the obligation to support any cards for bitstreaming. The other players have other troubles that for some people might be even worse than not bitstreaming. PowerDVD for instance, right now has a bug where DVD's aren't being played. I swore off cyberlink not because of one feature they didn't happen to have, but because the direction they took with updates, actually removing features and breaking compatibility with Slysoft's products. Arcsoft has pretty much been the opposite in that regard.

I'm only disappointed in the regard that I had some hope that it would work.

The simple truth here is that all of these players suck. WinDVD just sucks, Cyberlink for the reasons you mention (especially for removing HD DVD support), and Arcsoft because their support sucks and the program itself is dodgy.

I've never seen such a poorly written piece of professional software in my life, which is why I'm putting all of my eggs in this basket. If albain can make these cards (5XXX) bitstream without even owning one, I'd think that a software house ought to be able to get it incorporated as well in a timely fashion.

Does anyone know when the cheaper 5XXX cards are due out? I can't justify the cost of the more expendive ones at the moment. Also, has anyone been able to get bitstreaming working with the new nvidia gt series cards that support it?

[Andy o]

Rumor mill (HP leaked specs) point to a 5350 on Jan 7, a 5570 on Feb 20 or so. That's probably only for HP PCs though so dates for retail might be different, and there might be other cards coming out as well.

[Skinleech]

So, like some others have reported I get audio dropputs when a non DXVA video filter is used, i.e. CoreAVC. Is anything in the pipeline to work out what the issue is? Do you need logs albain, I assume yes.

Also, hope you all had a good Christmas!

[David602]

Albain: please see below...for a reply from Tulli over on AVSFORUM. I had asked him if his new Pioneer override fix would help with the Xonar card.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179134&page=91

Originally Posted by David602:
Does this apply for owners of Xonar HDAV cards as well or is this limited to the ATI cards?

Tulli's reply:
It applies to HDAV1.3 cards as well but, frankly, it's surprising that the Pioneers have this issue with DTS MA bitstreaming with ffdshow on the Xonar too. I have no clue of what's going on there. For as far as the HTPC is concerned, if for instance a EDID override is applied the ATI/HDAV drivers only "see" the overridden EDID. Or, maybe it is not so by the way bitstreaming is being implemented in ffdshow? Only Albain can answer the question.

In fact, AFAIK Pioneer AVRs reportedly bitstream fine on PDVD9 and WinDVD10 without any EDID override, so the problem is ffdshow's exclusively.

[rica]

Albain: please see below...for a reply from Tulli over on AVSFORUM. I had asked him if his new Pioneer override fix would help with the Xonar card.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179134&page=91

Originally Posted by David602:
Does this apply for owners of Xonar HDAV cards as well or is this limited to the ATI cards?

Tulli's reply:
It applies to HDAV1.3 cards as well but, frankly, it's surprising that the Pioneers have this issue with DTS MA bitstreaming with ffdshow on the Xonar too. I have no clue of what's going on there. For as far as the HTPC is concerned, if for instance a EDID override is applied the ATI/HDAV drivers only "see" the overridden EDID. Or, maybe it is not so by the way bitstreaming is being implemented in ffdshow? Only Albain can answer the question.

In fact, AFAIK Pioneer AVRs reportedly bitstream fine on PDVD9 and WinDVD10 without any EDID override, so the problem is ffdshow's exclusively.

Check the same thread again, you'll find the response, i suppose.

[albain]

I have not followed this issue (DTS HD MA + xonar).

Maybe there is a problem with the media structure

Have you tried with arcsoft renderer + ffdshow compatibility mode to xonar ?

I am sure that DTSHD worked for some people owning a xonar.

Otherwise please post ffdshow debugview logs

[Andy o]

Actually it also happens with the 5000 cards. Seems to happen only with Pioneer receivers, but DTS-HD MA bitstreams OK with PowerDVD 9 and WinDVD 2010 on the same systems, so we're puzzled. Some of us are going to be trying an EDID fix from Tulli for our Pioneer receivers but if you have any ideas please let us know. Thanks as always.

[albain]

And what about arcsoft ? Because the dumper only works with arcsoft and ffdshow bitstream is taken from there

[Andy o]

You mean with a Xonar? I don't have one, so others will have to answer this one.

[nightfly]

I have not followed this issue (DTS HD MA + xonar).

Maybe there is a problem with the media structure

Have you tried with arcsoft renderer + ffdshow compatibility mode to xonar ?

I am sure that DTSHD worked for some people owning a xonar.

Otherwise please post ffdshow debugview logs


mpc mpeg splitter + ffdshow + AS TMT3 audio renderer + xonar => DTS-HD HR/MA -> Denon 988/2308 work great for me in all titles tested. Make sure "Send PCM first" option is selected. Typically that didn't matter, but Terminator Salvation required that (an HR title?)

I only have issues with THD titles and not everyone. Star Trek is a prime example of glitches/drop outs of audio - especially if there's heavy "action" going on - fewer issues in "quiet" scenes. Hancock & Kung Fu Panda however, playback with no issues and both are THD titles. So only "glitches and/or dropouts" and low volume levels for some THD titles are my only issues.

[SamuriHL]

Hey guys. I just replaced my Onkyo 606 tonight with a new Pioneer ELITE and I'm afraid to say DTS-HD MA no longer works. The *ONLY* change was the receiver. (The 606 has developed a bad hdmi daughter board issue that apparently almost everyone eventually runs into as they seem to be defective...so, it got replaced and will eventually get fixed for the bedroom) It shifts constantly between PCM and DTS-HD MA but there's no audio. Albain, when I get some time I'll send up some logs to see if we can figure out what's causing it. I'm still using the Onkyo 606 EDID driver I created for now as it seems to work fine. PDVD9 bitstreams DTS-HD MA with no problem at all.

EDIT: No, the Onkyo EDID override went away when it detected the Pioneer, so, it's not using an override. But since PDVD9 bitstreams all flawlessly, it's not an EDID problem anyway.

[Skinleech]

The issue I've encountered with DTS-HD bitstreaming & the Xonar is that MPC takes forever to become "functional" once the file has started playback - the file will be playing, but the gui is greyed out and inaccessible, and I can't bring up the menu, or skip chapters for some time.

Frames aren't being dropped, the CPU usage is not high, but it seems to give a slightly stuttering look to the video. The audio comes through without issue though.

[SamuriHL]

http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d13e23877

That's DTS-HD MA being played on my new Pio ELITE. Like I said, it keeps switching between PCM and DTS-HD MA on the receiver. Does this help at all?

[nightfly]

The issue I've encountered with DTS-HD bitstreaming & the Xonar is that MPC takes forever to become "functional" once the file has started playback - the file will be playing, but the gui is greyed out and inaccessible, and I can't bring up the menu, or skip chapters for some time.

Frames aren't being dropped, the CPU usage is not high, but it seems to give a slightly stuttering look to the video. The audio comes through without issue though.

Not sure what build of MPC-HC your're using, but there was a 2 sec pause that was removed from some resizing/scaling code that could be causing some of your delay. This has been removed in build 1453 at least, possibly earlier.

[arestarh]

albain
Hello!
If you have time, Can you look again this post(about problem with translation):
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1353131#post1353131

Also I can't open in translation mode dialogs:
http://i044.radikal.ru/0912/8c/4f224226244at.jpg (http://radikal.ru/F/i044.radikal.ru/0912/8c/4f224226244a.png.html)
And even I manually edit file of localization(add necessary strings), *Add*and *Reset* buttons in both dialogs and dialog *Use ffdshow only in* is not appeared in GUI.

[Skinleech]

Not sure what build of MPC-HC your're using, but there was a 2 sec pause that was removed from some resizing/scaling code that could be causing some of your delay. This has been removed in build 1453 at least, possibly earlier.

Thanks for the info, I'm sure it's a few builds older than that, so I'll do a quick update and see how it plays then - cheers.

[THX-UltraII]

I have a problem with the new MPC Audio Renderer. There is a lip sync issue and it s like 5 seconds constant. I use the ATI HD4350 with 9.11 driver.

[albain]

Hi all,

I am now a happy ATI 5750 owner

... but what are those terrible audio dropouts !??...

It happens on every bitstream format : regular AC3/DTS and HD audio formats.

And as stated by Rica only the "ATI HDMI Output (..." works fine. Clearly this is a driver bug.


If this is okay for MPC HC users who just have to select the correct renderer, what about the other players (WMP, WMC,...) ?

Here is a hack to change it : go to the following registry key
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\ActiveMovie\devenum\{E0F158E1-CB04-11D0-BD4E-00A0C911CE86}\ATI HDMI Output (ATI High Defin

Then edit the FilterData key (back it up before in case you screw things up or want to revert) :
replace
02 00 00 00 00 00 20
with
02 00 00 00 00 00 90

Beware of the padding : just select with your mouse the "20" and retype over

This is the beginning of the filter merit.

For 32 bits users maybe you can use DSFMGR tool to manage filters merit (but I don't know if you can change renderers merit)
For 64 bits users this is the only way


Happy new year !

Sorry, I won't be very available in the next few days

[SamuriHL]

I'm not getting any audio dropouts with the Default DirectSound renderer. :confused: What receiver do you have? When I switched from my Onkyo (where everything worked flawlessly....except the POS receiver itself) to the Pio Elite, I lost DTS-HD MA with ffdshow. I think there are NUMEROUS ATI driver bugs going on.

[Andy o]

Nice, but I haven't heard of anyone having consistent dropouts with everything like you, for a while. Which Catalyst package have you installed, and which HDMI audio driver? which OS are you running? 32 or 64?

Also, which receiver do you have?

[SamuriHL]

Yea, you absolutely should be using the 9.12 hotfix driver + the realtek 2.39 HDMI driver. That's the most stable environment we have.

[albain]

I have win7 64 with ATI 9.12 hotfix driver but not realtek HDMI driver.

I don't remember what but there is a drawback using realtek driver ?

[SamuriHL]

No! The drawback is in using the ATI driver!! :) Realtek does all that ATI does and more.

[Sebastiii]

Hi all :)

I have also dropout but not only in bitstreaming and not only with ffdshow !
I think its driver issue because my CPU is I7 Core 920 so ...
Cool Albain that you receive your ATI card :) :).

It was appear when for exemple i have OSD on screen but when i use DXVA (hardware acceleration) i think it was better.

Good happy new year :)
Seb.

[tetsuo55]

Could someone upload a dxvachecker screenshot of the first and second screen?

[albain]

Yes, I confirm that the problem occurs only in software decoding mode, not in DXVA decoding mode.

EDIT : it also occurs with realtek driver. If you change the output colorspace by enabling YUV planar colorspaces the problem disappears almost completely, but if you disable YUY YUV... planar colorspaces in order to get RGB colorspaces only - which gives the best quality - then the dropouts occur again (AC3, DTS...)

This is surely a driver bug which seems to be sensitive to the cpu load, although my cpu charge is below 30%

This is very annoying for a last generation card

[Sebastiii]

So Happy new year and strange PB, i saw that 2.40 driver is Out.
But if the pb comes with ATI (video drivers) so no luck with that.
I'll try to setup YUY to see what happen :)
Thx Damien,

Seb.

[SamuriHL]

The 2.40 driver is only the realtek HD driver, NOT the ATI HDMI realtek driver. That's still at 2.30. The realtek HD driver is completely useless for us.

[albain]

This is really insane, I have these dropouts whatever I try.

With YUY2 they are less present.

The realtek HDMI driver does not change anything

Otherwise, I have good news : DXVA is working within FFDShow.

I am now working at putting it in a separate decoder...


If someone could help me out with these dropouts, I don't see what to do except switching to my motherboard audio :confused:
I am sure that this is a video/audio sync issue (in driver or in software, that is the question)

[SamuriHL]

That's really screwed up, albain. What receiver do you have it connected to?

[albain]

An Onkyo 606 connected to a Powercolor 5750

I have read somewhere that there are issues with 5750 cards (versus others such as 5770) ?

[SamuriHL]

Well that sucks. When my 606 was working (you better pray your warranty is up to date on that thing) I had 0 problems with it and my 5870. I really hope this isn't a 57xx issue. :(

[Sebastiii]

Could someone upload a dxvachecker screenshot of the first and second screen?

Hi,
I have download DXVAChecker_2.1.0.0 and this is the screenshot of first and second screen :

http://sebinternet.free.fr/DXVA1.png
http://sebinternet.free.fr/DXVA2.png

But i take it on TSE, so i'll take it in direct tonight :)
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

Well, I have a problem. :( My new Pio Elite does not play well with ffdshow and DTS-HD MA. I'm now not the only one with this issue, and it is *NOT* an ATI related problem. sigh. :( Someone tried it with their Xonar and had the same PCM->DTS-HD MA->PCM switching issue with no sound. The Pio works fine with PDVD9 and WinDVD 2010, so, I really have no idea what's going on with this.

[piit]

Hi guys, happy new year!

albain, would you have a minute to have a look at this ffdshow log (http://pastebin.com/m3dc9a527)?
It's a log when starting to play a Being There Blu-ray with a TrueHD 2.0 48/16 track.
There is no audio and the receiver (Denon AVR-1910) doesn't switch to TrueHD.
I've tested with ffdshow rev. 3171, beta 54 and all other betas down to beta 46
just to be sure.

At line 00000262 I seeked forward - the log then contains the repeated lines (I have
removed some after line 00000271 to make the log shorter).

I have created a 30s sample (~100MB) (http://sedlacek.biz/download/Being.There.1979.sample.m2ts) if somebody else wants to test it.

It would be great if it was possible to get this issue fixed!

Cheers Pete

[SamuriHL]

You need an edid override for your denon. Search for "Tulli edid override" on avsforum.

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

Sorry, i think 2.40 that have inside ATI HDMI lol :)
I have 5770 and i have dropout.
My receiver is HARMAN AVR-355.
But i have use EDID overide (maybe it's the pb) when i receive my AVR from SAV before i think i don't have dropout like now, but i put also last ATI drivers.

I'll made test to reset EDID to see what happen.

It appear with a lot drop out when i put OSD on screen like exemple in Mediaportal if i show something about the movie in fullscreen and i show up the start windows button -> it's the party of drop out lol :)
Seb.

Ps : @Albain, Good news for DXVA on ffdshow :)