ffdshow tryouts project: Discussion & Development

[Jay Bee]

OK, new information.
"wvc1dmo.exe 6.0.2600.0" installs "WMV9 Advanced Profile decoder". This is an older decoder than the "qasf.dll" I mentioned earlier. And guess what: It does use a lot less CPU decoding VC-1! While the specific file I was trying play doesn't work with "WMV9 Advanced Profile decoder" (black screen) I still think that this might explain some of the VC-1 problems people are having. And another thing I remember about "WMV9 Advanced Profile decoder", from discussions with Zambelli, is that it doesn't support hardware deinterlacing, but since there isn't much interlaced VC-1 around this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Sorry for the off topic.

[ACrowley]

wvc1dmo.exe 6.0.2600.0 is outdated :)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111633&highlight=standalone

WMVideoDecoder from latest WMV11SDK with WMVVideoDecoderDMO is the newest Build

http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/wmfdist11.exe

I think Zambelli can confirm it

EDIT
Yes, ofcourse the Decoder/Codec is included in WMP11..the link above is for the standalone Version

[Shakey_Jake33]

So we should all install the above file, to benefit from improved VC1 playback?

[clsid]

WMV11SDK is also included with WMP11.

[Shakey_Jake33]

Just been reading through the SVN changelog, and it says the AC3/DTS issue requiring the 'Maximise SPDIF Compatibility' checkbox has been fixed.
I seem to remember the change (which required the checkbox to the checked on some decoders) was a change that increased the bandwidth of DTS? Can someone remind me what that was all about? :)

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Just been reading through the SVN changelog, and it says the AC3/DTS issue requiring the 'Maximise SPDIF Compatibility' checkbox has been fixed.
I seem to remember the change (which required the checkbox to the checked on some decoders) was a change that increased the bandwidth of DTS? Can someone remind me what that was all about? :)S/PDIF pass through of DTS with odd number frame size, i.e. 2013 bytes etc, was broken because of an old bug.
albain tried to fix it and required the check box.
Very high bit rate DTS (>1.536mbps) cannot be passed through to S/PDIF anyway.

[SeeMoreDigital]

S/PDIF pass through of DTS with odd number frame size, i.e. 2013 bytes etc, was broken because of an old bug.
albain tried to fix it and required the check box.
Very high bit rate DTS (>1.536mbps) cannot be passed through to S/PDIF anyway.I currently have "ffdshow_rev1611_20071116_clsid.exe" installed and pass-thru' of DTS (.dts) at 1536Kbps is working okay for me.... The little DTS icon on my DSS amp lights up and everything :D

[clsid]

SMD, that is good news.

Everyone else with S/PDIF connection also please test passthrough of AC3 and DTS.

We are a step closer towards beta4 now.

[Shakey_Jake33]

New fix works for me too, both DD and DTS. Previously required the 'Maximise SPDIF Compatibility' checkbox ticked.

Speakers/receiver are Logitech Z-5500.

[amt]

AC3 and DTS 1.5 Mbps confirmed working over S/PDIF using ffdshow_rev1611_20071116_clsid.exe

[Thunderbolt8]

I have a problem with remuxing the galapagos HD DVD: I cant get a picture using ffdshow as decoder. from what I heard this HD DVD is telecine and 29.97 fps and this seems to cause trouble for ffdshow. at least it only gives a black screen when trying to playback a remuxed .mkv file (with gdsmux or mkvmerge) of the original VC-1 video stream. every other normal 23.976 fps VC-1 video from remuxed HD DVDs or blue-rays plays fine. I tried it xxl version 1604 and clsid 1611, same result with both. when I use the WMVideo Decoder DMO the playback is fine.


edit: it works when I choose wmv9 instead of libavcodec for VC-1 (unlike to all other VC-1 material desrcibed above). is there actually a difference in picture quality between wmv9 and libavcodec? wmv9 is horribly slow :S

and any way to get rid of that problem? (look at the wings) or is this because of the telecine aspect? I guess this is not the intended way the picture should be presented, is it?
http://www.freepicshost.net/pview.php?fid=6908&fname=snapshot20071117172026.PNG

[fastplayer]

Subtitles that contain an "&" as part of the filename are displayed incorrectly inside ffdshow's context menu.
Example:
Bla & bla.srt becomes Bla _bla.srt

Edit: Bug fixed with rev1626 (http://ffdshow-tryout.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ffdshow-tryout?view=rev&revision=1626).
Thanks, Haruhiko! :thanks:

[foxyshadis]

Unfortunately, libavcodec's VC-1 implementation isn't quite finished, let alone bug-free, so using Microsoft's is the main choice for HD material. ffdshow can only use what ffmpeg gives us, mainly.

fastplayer, good catch.

[Thunderbolt8]

hm I can accept that it will a bit longer until its completed. however, what can I do about that telecine thing of that movie, I guess the way it looks on that picture is not intended? how can I get rid of it?

[Jay Bee]

Are you sure it isn't interlaced? Looks to me like the deinterlacer is using the wrong method (blend instead of bob). Getting VC-1 to deinterlace properly is a bit involved and is decribed by Zambelli here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=954165&postcount=4). In your case try using WMV9 PowerToy to disable the internal deinterlacer and see what you get.

[Thunderbolt8]

in that picture (taken with ffdshow) deinterlacing was disabled.
are you sure you posted the right link? otherwise I guess I dont really understand what is meant there, sorry.
I guess I have the lastest version of the WMVideo Decoder DMO installed, but I cant choose any deinterlacing options for that filter with mpc afaik.

[Jay Bee]

Yes, it was the right link. :) The WMV9 decoder has an internal (not very good) deinterlacer that can be deactivated using Zambelli's WMV9 PowerToy. Even if deinterlacing is deactivated in ffdshow and MPC the decoder may still be doing its own deinterlacing. Just try if it makes a difference.

[Thunderbolt8]

opened the toy and everyting including deinterlacing is not checkmarked. so I guess that does mean that disabling was disabled before anyway? set it to disabled just be sure.
what now, should I leave it that way? should I also enable DXVA WMV Support?
how can I get rid of that telecine look then?

btw. decoder info: wmvdecod.dll, 11.0.5721.5145, Priority: 256

[vlada]

I have 2 TS/AVC samples which cause some problems in ffdshow (blockiness, macroblocks, totally distorted picture). My question is, how can I check if it's a problem of ffdshow or ffmpeg? Is MPlayer suitable to test it?

Anyway at http://www.sendspace.com/file/4ns9wf is an AVI sample I created from the TS. I wanted to open it in VirtualDub, but it only displays one half of the picture. In DirectShow it plays O.K. So I do believe there is a bug in the VfW h264 codec.

P.S. tested with ffdshow rev1598.

Edit: Just tested the video in latest MPlayer and works O.K. (just choppy, because my computer isn't fast enough).

[Maciek]

I guess this is the best place on the internet to ask this question, so...

I finally got a good computer and I wonder what are the best possible quality settings for ffdshow. I mean, let's say that the computer doesn't matter and I just want best quality possible - both audio and video. What should I change in ffdshow's settings?

[foxyshadis]

Thunderbolt8, to get rid of the combing, you have to actually turn deinterlacing/IVTC on, either in wmv9 or in ffdshow.

vlada, yes, current SVN of either mplayer or VLC.

Maciek, there's really no such thing. It much too dependent on what you're watching and what your personal tastes are, otherwise we'd already have 'best' settings all turned on. Post-processing is usually a bare minimum unless you have very high quality movies, though.

Besides, for best quality of things like deinterlacing and antialiasing, you could never run them in realtime even on the most powerful PC in existence. (Some 32-cpu xeon servers, perhaps.)

[Jay Bee]

Thunderbolt: so is there a difference between "Internal Deinterlacer" on and off? It's under the "decoder" tab and don't forget to click apply and re-open the file you're decoding.

[Thunderbolt8]

Thunderbolt: so is there a difference between "Internal Deinterlacer" on and off? It's under the "decoder" tab and don't forget to click apply and re-open the file you're decoding.
no, didnt really see a difference :S I wasnt able to compare same frames, but it still looked as strange as in that bird picture sometimes.
Thunderbolt8, to get rid of the combing, you have to actually turn deinterlacing/IVTC on, either in wmv9 or in ffdshow.
this is the problem, afaik the IVTC option is under libavcodec setting at the bottom of ffdshow configuration bars, but this video wont work with libavcodec.

I tried to apply ffdshow deinterlacing (cubic interpolation, ffmpeg deinterlacer), but the pictures still looked like this.

cubic: http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/f2c1471515069

ffmpeg: http://www.freepicshost.net/pview.php?fid=6996&fname=ffmpeg.PNG

[Jay Bee]

Could you upload a small sample?

[Thunderbolt8]

hm how small? its a source file with ~25mbit, im not sure how much could be seen with a small sample. and how could I find an adequate position to take that sample from? I would take the bird scene of course, but how can I find out where that is, when using a hex editor to cut for example?

edit: compared again, theres indeed a difference between when I disable wmv deinterlacing and then activate ffdshow deinterlacing. it looks a bit better then, but still cant change that strange look of the screenshots.

heres a sample, 25 seconds, 55mb. with ffdshow deinterlacing I can get rid of the incerlacing problem, but I cant change the way it looks like on the screenshots :S
http://www.megaupload.com/de/?d=7QIPXP6I

[Jay Bee]

Thx. I tried all kinds of deinterlacers but I couldn't get rid of the double wings either. I guess that's just the way it was encoded.

[Thunderbolt8]

what was about that IVTC thing, could this be a method to get rid of it?

[G_M_C]

Question; Does FFDShow_Tryouts work on Vista 64 bit / Intel E6750 combo ?

I've build myself a new machine with a E6750 and 4 Gb of fast memory, and i want to start using a 64 bit system (since it is better at handling mem > 3 Gb). But i'm lost in the quest for software that i want to "take with me" from Xp/32bits to Vista/64bits.

[clsid]

It will work if you use a 32-bit player. For Media Center you'll need a 64-bit build.

[fastplayer]

(Optional) single left-click on tray-icon opens ffdshow's dialog.

µtorrent is a good example for this feature because some single-click apps require the taskbar to be focused or open the dialog inactively (in the background).

[Shakey_Jake33]

Question; Does FFDShow_Tryouts work on Vista 64 bit / Intel E6750 combo ?

I've build myself a new machine with a E6750 and 4 Gb of fast memory, and i want to start using a 64 bit system (since it is better at handling mem > 3 Gb). But i'm lost in the quest for software that i want to "take with me" from Xp/32bits to Vista/64bits.
As clsid says really. I think you are wise going 64-bit now, as everyone will have to eventually, but 64-bit codecs are quite behind everything else. There is a 64-bit build of ffdshow, but it's quite and old build, never really updated, and that's about all there is. Your best sticking to 32-bit codecs for now.

Vista Media Center in Vista 64 does require 64-bit codecs though, so you'll need 64-bit ffdshow for that. Also, Vista 64 comes with both 32 and 64-bit builds of WMP, and a 64-bit build of Media Player Classic exist, if you want to play with them anyway. The 64-bit codecs install alongside the 32-bit ones, so there's no harm in installing both.

[Inventive Software]

Suggestion for install script: add "post-processing" to the filters that are enabled after installing.

[vlada]

Thunderbolt8
Could you upload the sample on a more accessible server, like Sendspace.com? I would have a look at the video. But I can't download from Megaupload.

[Thunderbolt8]

Thunderbolt8
Could you upload the sample on a more accessible server, like Sendspace.com? I would have a look at the video. But I can't download from Megaupload.
generally not, or because of language issue?

done. http://www.sendspace.com/file/lvlvtv

[vlada]

Megaupload says there are no free slots for my country (all the time). Anyway back to the video: I looked on it in VirtualDub through Avisynth -> ffdshow (wmv9). If I used libavcodec in ffdshow, I didn't get any picture.

Looking at the video I don't think the double contours are created because of blending telecined frames. If you move frame by frame, you can see that there are alway 2 pictures (frames) displayed at the same time. While one of them is becoming more visible, the other one is getting more transparent. After each 6 frames, only one of them is visible and the cycle begins again. This seems like a blend framerate conversion, something similar to what ConvertFPS from Avisynth produces.

I'm afraid there is no way to fix the video after this framerate conversion. It looks like conversion from 30fps to 24 or vice versa. But it is strange that the movie seems to be 25fps.

What do you think?

[G_M_C]

As clsid says really. I think you are wise going 64-bit now, as everyone will have to eventually, [...]


Yes, that was my initial thought also;

But reading more and more, i am starting to get the feeling that 64 bit might be OK, but Vista isnt; And Vista 64 least of all. There are the different compatibillity issues, but there is also the ludicrous DRM implementation, that spoils Vista-64 bit the most.

But as i said, im still reading on about it, and am still in the beginning of my upgrade-path (getting together all software/codecs needed to make the transition to a new OS and a new number of bits)

[Shakey_Jake33]

It's really not a big transition, I've been using Vista 64 since Febuary. You use all the same players and codecs that you used in XP-32.

[Thunderbolt8]

Megaupload says there are no free slots for my country (all the time). Anyway back to the video: I looked on it in VirtualDub through Avisynth -> ffdshow (wmv9). If I used libavcodec in ffdshow, I didn't get any picture.

Looking at the video I don't think the double contours are created because of blending telecined frames. If you move frame by frame, you can see that there are alway 2 pictures (frames) displayed at the same time. While one of them is becoming more visible, the other one is getting more transparent. After each 6 frames, only one of them is visible and the cycle begins again. This seems like a blend framerate conversion, something similar to what ConvertFPS from Avisynth produces.

I'm afraid there is no way to fix the video after this framerate conversion. It looks like conversion from 30fps to 24 or vice versa. But it is strange that the movie seems to be 25fps.

What do you think?
hm thats strange because the video is supposed to be 29.97 fps
im also sure I didnt change the fps, because everytime I tried so with a time code file with 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97 fps the muxing just crashed. I had to leave it at its default, which should be the original 29.97 fps. must look into it again.

edit: still think its 29.97fps. the framerate stays around 30 mostly at the beginning, before it might eventually drop down because the comp is too slow :P
another indication is that the audio is still in sync (although its hard to make out here of course) and since its the original audio of the 29.97 source this here should still be 29.97 fps too. so I guess its mostly a pc speed problem if the framerate drops, as this is really the video with most hardware requirement I had so far. temporarily switching to mpc internal matroska filter instead of haali can give some additional speed to compare.

I might be able to obtain a sample from an x264 encode in a day (not done by myself though) and since you have more possibilities at the encoding stage with the video I guess we might have a comparison then how its supposed to look.

[ToS_Maverick]

is it possible to implement a colormatrix-conversion into ffdshow?

it would be nice if ffdshow could extract the colormatrix information from an MPEG2 and H264 stream, and automatically apply the change.

there already is the option, what matrix to use, in Output/RGB conversion, but i cannot change it everytime i watch a different stream. i don't know every stream, and what matrix it uses ;)

[vlada]

Thunderbolt8
I was guessing the framerate from VirtualDub/Avisynth. Most other tools didn't report any framerate. MPlayer also says 25fps.

I'll try to demux the video and remux it to another container and I'll see what happens then...

[Thunderbolt8]

Here a 25mb x264 (deinterlaced) sample (16 seconds) of ~same scene as the original video remux was:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/idpchq

and heres the link for the original remuxed video again:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/lvlvtv


so maybe its a bit easier to find out if these blend pictures of the bird's wings are fine they way they are in the source.

[drunken_clam]

Hi i've got a problem with h264/mp3 AVIs in my Video-Software (Premiere Elements 3/Premiere Pro CS3) decoded through ffdshow (ffdshow_beta3_rev1324_20070701_clsid).

All files i import have a lack of audio for about 1 second, when i play those files with VLC or MPlayer everything is fine so i think its a problem in ffdshow or the used version of libavcodec.

Heres a link to an example video.

http://rapidshare.com/files/71128576/05_crf_28_deblock_min_nomc.zip

Anybody an idea? Can anyone reproduce this?

P.S. Please don't ask why i edit those high compressed files :-)

[vlada]

Very strange. The h.264 looks also bad, but somehow different. There are always 3 OK frames, but next 3 frames have "ghosts", then come another 3 good frames etc.

What is the original source?

[Thunderbolt8]

the link posted below the x264 encode is the original source
its the original vc-1 stream remuxed in .mv, no other changes or alternation of the video has been made
the screenshots were also from that original source

[Inventive Software]

Can somebody upload a checkout of the SVN sources? I'm going to take a look this weekend, and see what could/shouldn't be done about having a libavformat based filter.

[blizard]

It's really not a big transition, I've been using Vista 64 since Febuary. You use all the same players and codecs that you used in XP-32.

Does Vista x64 work in the same way as Win XP x64 does? I use Win Xp x64 and it is very few thing as today that I would need to have in 64-bit to work and among codecs there is none from what I know of that I use. It is more important with capability to handle dual core or multicore (SMP) then 64 bit for encoding/decoding task. Please, correct me if I am wrong on this about SMP enabled processing being more vital for encoding/decoding then 64-bit. I wouldn't mind that both worked, but it seem until now that SMP have higher priority and is more of use then 64-bit.

Main software: K-Lite Codec pack Mega w. Media Player Classic + FFDSHOW, QT alternative and Real alternative, Haali Splitter + Renderer; SMplayer (celtic druids compile);+AutoMEN (MEncoder from Celtic Druid package as it have support for dual core).

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Can somebody upload a checkout of the SVN sources? I'm going to take a look this weekend, and see what could/shouldn't be done about having a libavformat based filter.Just getting ffdshow's source code won't help. You'll need mplayer for libavformat and guliverkli or MPC home cinema as a sample of DirectShow source/splitter filter.
Please install tortoise svn and check out.
ffdshow tryouts: https://ffdshow-tryout.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ffdshow-tryout/trunk
mplayer: svn://svn.mplayerhq.hu/mplayer/trunk
MPC home cinema: http://mpc-hc.svn.sourceforge.net/trunk

[Inventive Software]

Fair enough. Will checkout later. :)

[Leak]

Fair enough. Will checkout later. :)
Like Haruhiko said, this should make checking out the sources quite a bit easier... (http://tortoisesvn.net/)

[Inventive Software]

To quote the enviable Terry Pratchett: it's a Pun, or a "play on words". I'm aware of TortoiseSVN, but being at uni makes actually checking out the source damn near impossible, and I don't have TortoiseSVN installed yet on my computer at home. I will "check-out" the source (download it) this afternoon, and check out the source in my spare time this weekend (look through it).

Just nitpicking! ;)