ffdshow tryouts project: Discussion & Development

[SamuriHL]

Both from MPC-HC

Working: http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d3efb44d8
Not Working: http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d13d0de10

I hope these logs help show something useful. The first one works and gives audio. The second one doesn't even give me lights in MPC-HC. It does in graphstudio but no audio.

[SamuriHL]

Nice breakthrough! Will a working solution here pave the way for full (no downconverting) range analogue playback with non-PAP soundcards? Or is that a total different matter?

Very different issue. For that you have to decode to LPCM for which no decoder exists for DTS-HD MA. TrueHD should be possible already.

[crisscross]

Very different issue. For that you have to decode to LPCM for which no decoder exists for DTS-HD MA. TrueHD should be possible already.
Really? I was under the impression that for analogue out I would just need decoding of all the channels (LPCM is for digital out isnt it, or is it a middle step TrueHD->LPCM->analogue out?). I was also under the impression that it is always downconverted to 16/48 without PAP.

[SamuriHL]

Really? I was under the impression that for analogue out I would just need decoding of all the channels (LPCM is for digital out isnt it, or is it a middle step TrueHD->LPCM->analogue out?). I was also under the impression that it is always downconverted to 16/48 without PAP.

ALL audio gets decoded to LPCM at some point in the process, even for analog. Consider LPCM the "raw" format that contains information for each channel. A compressed format like TrueHD or DTS-HD MA needs to be decoded to play, either by the player or the receiver depending on if you're bitstreaming or not. The same is true for analog playback of those formats, except in that case, it MUST be the player that decodes it to raw LPCM. So for TrueHD and LPCM, you're golden as is with the latest ffdshow as it can decode TrueHD to bit perfect LPCM for playback on your analog device. DTS-HD MA, however, can't be decoded. Only the core DTS track can be decoded. Still decent quality, but, not the full HD you're looking for. I have no idea when or if that situation is ever going to get resolved. I don't know of anyone working on an open DTS-HD MA decoder, but, it would be nice.

[Emilot]

Where is Albain, "the man who rule them all......"???

Congrats man....

[albain]

Hi,

I had so much work today that I didn't read the "news"

Thanks everyone for your support !

The credits are not to be given to me only but to madshi and all the patients testers who stand 42 betas before getting to something working :thanks:

I will spend some time tomorrow on those logs you sent me to find out what's wrong with non working samples (but I have a little idea) and then working on DTS HD then on LPCM

This is a great step forward indeed : no more blind stepping, now the solution is here, no PAP, no custom renderer, and full compatibility with existing directshow players.
I also expect FFDShow to work today with the xonar and tomorrow with the azuentech (thanks to the multi-media structures trial feature inside FFDShow).

[albain]

@SamuriHL : can you give me the specifications of the working/non working samples, i.e.

Number of channels : 5.1, 7.1
Sample rate : 48000, 96000, 192000

Thanks

EDIT : I think I know

Working : 96000Hz 7.1
Non working : 48000Hz 5.1

The media structures sent are different : this is the key I guess. This is also I think the same cause for DTS HD

The bitstream is correct I think (because I worked from 48000 5.1 samples)

[SamuriHL]

Sure, NP.

Working: 7.1, 96000, 98767kbps according to ffdshow
Non-Working: 48000, 5.1, 5445kbps according to ffdshow

The working one is the sample you gave us originally. The non-working one is a transformers sample that was posted here a while back. Well, I have LOTS of non-working ones, but, the one the log came from. :D

[SamuriHL]

The other file that works is:

7.1, 48000, 5844kbps

I did not log this one.

[albain]

Okay thanks, are non working all 5.1 ?

[SamuriHL]

Hmmm. That's an interesting question. :) Um, I believe that might be the case for my TrueHD tracks, yes. You're going to make me go through them all and find another 7.1 track to test on, aren't you? :p I can tell you that DTS-HD MA I've tried both 7.1 and 5.1 so that's a different issue. However, TrueHD...I believe you are correct, that the 5.1 tracks are not working. I'll see if I can find another 7.1 THD track in my library to test with.

[albain]

I believe there are some unknown bytes in the bitstream where albain doesn't know what purpose they have. Maybe for the TrueHD files which don't work, these bytes have a different value? I guess albain would need logs from his hook utility to be sure about that. Just guessing here, though...

No they are fixed (and I am sure of that)


Differences are the following :

- Non working : dwChannelMask : 63
- Working : dwChannelMask : 255

- Non working : channels : 6
- Working : channels : 8

I think that channels should always be 8 afterwards, this is not the real channel number because this is based on encoded content and it is used to calculate the blockalign which is also different.
This MS documents tends to confirm this (but I am not 100% sure) : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd316761%28VS.85%29.aspx

This is my lead for now

[albain]

Here is an updated build (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3128_20091202_dbt_bitstream_beta44.exe) : I hope that 5.1 THD will work

I also changed the DTS HD structure (not sure of that one though)

[SamuriHL]

http://price-adjustment.com/BLURAY-audio

Posting that here so I don't lose it again and for other people to have it for reference. :) I have found one of my 7.1 THD titles. As you surmise.......IT WORKS :) You have found the issue my friend! Well done!!!!!

[Skinleech]

So, in theory, if a 7.1, 96000 track works, and tracks with less channels and differing sample rates don't, I guess another 7.1, 96000 track will maybe work too?

Going to try and find one on my disks.

EDIT: Came late to the party and missed all the posts above.

Will post Xonar logs soon with the new build.

[SamuriHL]

Oh albain. I love you man. :D That fixed 5.1. :D :D :D :D :D :D

[SamuriHL]

Oh, btw. DTS-HD MA is working now, too. :D No, I'm not joking. Holy crap!

[Skinleech]

Oh, btw. DTS-HD MA is working now, too. :D No, I'm not joking. Holy crap!

Whaaa! Amazing! Just waiting for the file to dl now, the HTPC is fired up and ready to go!

[SamuriHL]

Well, it's working on a test sample I have for DTS-HD MA. It's not working in MPC-HC and it's not working on my actual movies.

[SamuriHL]

Hmmmm....well, it's working kinda odd for me. I load up my standard ISO image of a 7.1 DTS-HD MA movie and in graphstudio, that actually bitstreams correctly. The audio is all over the place in terms of breaking up, dropping out, etc, but, there's audio which is a first. I can NOT get it to play in MPC-HC at all. It just does DTS. So, I think it's REALLY damn close, man, but, there's a couple issues to fix up. TrueHD, golden. :)

[liquidskin76]

@Skinleech,

What renderer are you using with your Xonar on the working TrueHD bitstream? Also, is the sample 5.1 or 7.1?


@Albain,

Using 'Beta42 - Xonar - Arcsoft Renderer' i get TrueHD showing on avr however no audio. FFDShow reports output as 'HDMI Bitstream (1402)'.

It's a 5.1 channel file however it's showing as 7.1 on my Sony ST-DG820 avr.

Here the log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m3171cda3

Also (you may expect this), it only works with debug enabled and Dbgview running, otherwise the sample hangs.

The 'MPC - Audio Renderer' and 'Default Directshow Device' either cause the sample to hang or play ok with FFDshow reporting the output as '48000 hz, 6 channel 16 bit integer'.

Well done so far man!

[EDIT:] Sorry, catching up with the most recent posts! I'll test with beta44.

[SamuriHL]

@Skinleech,

What renderer are you using with your Xonar on the working TrueHD bitstream? Also, is the sample 5.1 or 7.1?


@Albain,

Using 'Beta42 - Xonar - Arcsoft Renderer' i get TrueHD showing on avr however no audio. FFDShow reports output as 'HDMI Bitstream (1402)'.

It's a 5.1 channel file however it's showing as 7.1 on my Sony ST-DG820 avr.

Here the log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m3171cda3

Also (you may expect this), it only works with debug enabled and Dbgview running, otherwise the sample hangs.

The 'MPC - Audio Renderer' and 'Default Directshow Device' either cause the sample to hang or play ok with FFDshow reporting the output as '48000 hz, 6 channel 16 bit integer'.

Well done so far man!

Hey pay attention, will ya? He's on to beta 44 now. :p LOL! And THD 5.1 and 7.1 are working! DTS-HD MA is giving audio in graphstudio. So, major progress here!! Try again with 44 and see what happens. Note i'm not on the Xonar, so, your results may vary.

[liquidskin76]

I know man, i was eating tea! Serves me right for stopping to eat!!

Testing now.

[SamuriHL]

I know man, i was eating tea! Serves me right for stopping to eat!!

Testing now.

Just giving you a hard time. :) I want other people testing DTS-HD MA because I can NOT get it to work in MPC-HC with any renderer. TrueHD is golden with a bunch of the renderer's I've tried. Not with arcsoft or cyberlink, but, directsound, all the "ati" ones, waveout, etc. All work. So, TrueHD is done IMO. :) On to DTS-HD MA I say! :D

[albain]

Hmmmm....well, it's working kinda odd for me. I load up my standard ISO image of a 7.1 DTS-HD MA movie and in graphstudio, that actually bitstreams correctly. The audio is all over the place in terms of breaking up, dropping out, etc, but, there's audio which is a first. I can NOT get it to play in MPC-HC at all. It just does DTS. So, I think it's REALLY damn close, man, but, there's a couple issues to fix up. TrueHD, golden. :)

Great news, what a relieve, love you too for all these great news.
Do you have a big red coat with a white beard and like cold ;-)

About MPC : beware that the M2TS splitter strips off the DTS HD blocks to only keep the core.

I committed a fix recently (into MPC-HC repository) so you have to grab a very recent version of MPC HC

Otherwise the MKV splitter is fine (DTS HD blocks are untouched)

[SamuriHL]

Great news

About MPC : beware that the M2TS splitter strips off the DTS HD blocks to only keep the core.

I committed a fix recently (into MPC-HC repository) so you have to grab a very recent version of MPC HC

Otherwise the MKV splitter is fine (DTS HD blocks are untouched)

Oh, um, well, that'd explain that then. I'm running with a fairly old MPC-HC build. Guess it's time to upgrade. However, DTS-HD MA is still giving me problems. With Default DirectSound in graphstudio I get audio. With any other renderer it's not locking on. Something screwy's going on there. I badly need someone else with a 5xxx card to test their results.

TrueHD...you da man! :)

[liquidskin76]

YEEEHAAAAA!!! TrueHD is bitstreaming on 'Beta44 - Xonar - Arcsoft Renderer' with good audio from GraphStudio!!

I'll test in the most recent build of MPC-HC.

DTS-HD is giving DTS core. Here's the logs for DTS-HD... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m2ba86ed0

Great work Albain... i love you man.

[Skinleech]

OK here are my results with the Xonar. Liquidskin, I am using the Arcsoft renderer from TMT 3.

True HD: I have mixed results, some files work, others dont. The avr picks up THD and I get sound, but its stuttery. Working tracks are 5.1, 48000, not working are the 7.1 96000 and another 5.1, 48000

Working: http://pastebin.com/m705b11da
Not Working: http://pastebin.com/m5d769e5

DTS-HD MA: More mixed results. m2ts gives me PCM that's garbled (possible due to the issue in post 9575, will try a new MPC build) wheares mkv with Haali works audio wise, but the video is a slideshow.

Working (mkv): http://pastebin.com/m63c4b5a1
Not working (m2ts): http://pastebin.com/m12ce6388

[liquidskin76]

Sweet... TrueHD also bitstreaming ok on 'beta44 - xonar - arcsoft renderer' within graphstudio from MKV container!

[SamuriHL]

I got DTS-HD MA working with the latest SVN build. :D Flawless. :D :D Thanks, albain!!!! You ARE da man!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liquidskin76]

holy shit... DTS-HD is bitstreaming with good audio on 'beta44 - xonar - arcsoft renderer' within graphstudio from MKV container!!!!!!!!!!

Albain, you are GOD!

[Skinleech]

I got DTS-HD MA working with the latest SVN build. :D Flawless. :D :D Thanks, albain!!!! You ARE da man!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, I got an HR track working perfectly, my netowrk went down to can't check MA yet - currently rebooting. Superb!

Oh, and TrueHD tracks that work also work once tsmuxered for me.

Thank you albain!

[SamuriHL]

Grab the latest SVN version of MPC-HC and you're done. You can open DTS-HD MA and TrueHD discs and/or files and it bitstreams flawlessly. Albain, CONGRATS!!!! WELL FREAKING DONE!!!! Absolutely amazing work.

[liquidskin76]

@SamuriHL,

Have you got the link to the most recent MPC-HC download?

[Skinleech]

Sweet... TrueHD also bitstreaming ok on 'beta44 - xonar - arcsoft renderer' within graphstudio from MKV container!

What splitter are you using mate?

[SamuriHL]

@SamuriHL,

Have you got the link to the most recent MPC-HC download?

I just happen to have that open for some odd reason, yes. ;)

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64/media-player-classic-homecinema-x86-x64-svn-1373.html

Enjoy everyone! This is freaking phenomenal!!!!

[Emilot]

From Greece Albain and the rest of the team....For Those About to Rock.....

WE SALUTE YOU!!!!

[albain]

GreatGreatGreatGreat...Great

I understand that there are still issues concerning the xonar : this does not surprise me as I send the same media structures to arcsoft renderer whatever the input format is.

To fix this I need dumper logs from the xonar owner using TMT on non working samples in order to reproduce the structure correctly

Same thing with the azuentech with powerdvd (even if it crashes I can see the structures too).

Then next step is non regression tests on FFDShow before merging the SVN bitstream branch to the trunk (there is a lot of new code) : on PCM, regular AC3 and DTS especially


Something that I realized recently that has nothing to do with audio : ASS/SSA subtitles are renderer completely differently than regular (SRT) ones. Someone knows about this ?
I remember that Haruhiko implemented memory tracking in subtitles but did he implemented a new subtitles renderer ?

[Skinleech]

Great stuff albain, thanks. I got a working m2ts with DTS-HD MA, a non working one (stutters, PCM) and a non working HR track (PCM, no stutters).

I can arrnage to post samples here to sebastii can pick them up if he is happy to take a look at them.

Superb work my man, superb!

[liquidskin76]

What splitter are you using mate?

Matroska Splitter v1.0.2.9. Haali Media splitter i believe cannot see TrueHD.

@Albain,

DTS-HD on 'beta44 - xonar - arcsoft renderer' from m2ts container within graphstudio still only gives DTS core.

Here's the log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m2d0662c7

Cheers!

[Skinleech]

Matroska Splitter v1.0.2.9. Haali Media splitter i believe cannot see TrueHD.

No, it can't. Thanks for the info. The MPC-HC splitter seems to work ok too.

[liquidskin76]

No, it can't. Thanks for the info. The MPC-HC splitter seems to work ok too.

Tell a lie... just checked and that's the one i'm using!

[Sebastiii]

Hi,

It's great ;), i can't test myself, but it's very very very coooooooool to the hard work that Albain Madshi and Co :)

I'm very happy, so yes you can send me sample for testing with TMT and i can post LOG :)

Very great news :)
Seb.

[SamuriHL]

Seb, you're going to have a lot of work to do with the Xonar I think. :) I'm on 64 bit so even if I put mine back in I'm not going to be able to dump the info albain needs to get Xonar users fixed up. This is so amazing. albain's persistence was remarkable but it certainly has paid off!! We should all step back for just a moment and really contemplate what he accomplished here. Bitstreaming of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, in an open environment, with no PAP or other restrictions. *********************! :)

[albain]

Matroska Splitter v1.0.2.9. Haali Media splitter i believe cannot see TrueHD.

@Albain,

DTS-HD on 'beta44 - xonar - arcsoft renderer' from m2ts container within graphstudio still only gives DTS core.

Here's the log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m2d0662c7

Cheers!

FFDShow don't see the DTS HD blocks. You don't have the right spllitter.

Try to register this one (http://damienbt.free.fr/MpegSplitter.ax)

Here is also a recent MPC-HC build (with DTS HD) (http://damienbt.free.fr/mpc-hc.exe)

[liquidskin76]

FFDShow don't see the DTS HD blocks. You don't have the right spllitter.

Try to register this one (http://damienbt.free.fr/MpegSplitter.ax)

Here is also a recent MPC-HC build (with DTS HD) (http://damienbt.free.fr/mpc-hc.exe)

Ok, testing now.

Thanks

[crisscross]

ALL audio gets decoded to LPCM at some point in the process, even for analog. Consider LPCM the "raw" format that contains information for each channel. A compressed format like TrueHD or DTS-HD MA needs to be decoded to play, either by the player or the receiver depending on if you're bitstreaming or not. The same is true for analog playback of those formats, except in that case, it MUST be the player that decodes it to raw LPCM. So for TrueHD and LPCM, you're golden as is with the latest ffdshow as it can decode TrueHD to bit perfect LPCM for playback on your analog device. DTS-HD MA, however, can't be decoded. Only the core DTS track can be decoded. Still decent quality, but, not the full HD you're looking for. I have no idea when or if that situation is ever going to get resolved. I don't know of anyone working on an open DTS-HD MA decoder, but, it would be nice.
Ah thank you for that explanation! Thats great news. I guess the technical reason behind that is that ffdshow bypasses PAP by not going via the sound card drivers?

[liquidskin76]

@Albain,

Still getting DTS core with GraphStudio using xonar.

Here's the log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m335f8fc8

Testing with your MPC-HC now.

Thanks

[SamuriHL]

Ah thank you for that explanation! Thats great news. I guess the technical reason behind that is that ffdshow bypasses PAP by not going via the sound card drivers?

There's no "bypassing" PAP involved. PAP is used by an "official" player that's trying to bitstream. It's a requirement of the studios for all licensed PC players to use PAP in order to be allowed to play full bitrate audio that's not downsampled. ffdshow doesn't care about that requirement to downsample. It simply didn't bother implementing it. :D So LPCM can be sent over analog to your receiver no problem. That means TrueHD decoded to LPCM will work just fine. In theory, if there was a DTS-HD MA decoder available, you'd be able to decode that to LPCM and send that, as well. In any case, PAP isn't the issue. It's the requirement for licensed players to downsample that's the issue. ffdshow doesn't bother with that nonsense. :)

[liquidskin76]

@Albain,

Just to summarize on 'beta44 - xonar - arcsoft renderer'...

GraphStudio

From m2ts container... TrueHD working great. DTS-HD giving DTS core.
DTS-HD log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m6b53dcb1

From MKV container... both TrueHD and DTS-HD working great!

MPC-HC (SVN 1373)

From m2ts container... TrueHD not working, giving 2 channel LPCM. DTS-HD is giving DTS core.
TrueHD log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m7b37a2dc
DTS-HD log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m5d22fc24

From MKV container... TrueHD not working, giving 2 channel LPCM. DTS-HD not working, no audio and showing as Dolby Digital on AVR!!
TrueHD log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m2729c620
DTS-HD log... http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m7e2cda62


Do you want me to test with the dumper tool?