ffdshow tryouts project: Discussion & Development

[SamuriHL]

rica, did you try different audio renderers? I've tried all of them and while I got different results, none of them worked. I have not re-enabled debugging output in ffdshow with this latest version so I didn't get a chance to create logs.

[rica]

rica, did you try different audio renderers? I've tried all of them and while I got different results, none of them worked. I have not re-enabled debugging output in ffdshow with this latest version so I didn't get a chance to create logs.

Yes i did on Vista32 (for the time being)

Default Direct Sound and Arcsoft Audio Renderer recognised it as DD core and gave the sound. (the original is DTSHD-MA btw)

Cyberlink audio renderer gave nothing.

MPC Audio Renderer showed me DTSHD MA and blue light but no sound.

[SamuriHL]

Wonderful. Well, I don't know what to say about these results. We can see the lights, but, no one appears to be home. I can see them with Direct Sound, but, no audio. It would appear on W7 I'm getting different results than you are. That's just great.

[rica]

You know i have an Ati 5*** series card not a Xonar.
But i'm almost sure i would get the similar results on 7/64.

[SamuriHL]

My Xonar's not installed anymore. I'm only running the 5870 now.

[rica]

OK, i'll give it a go on 7/64 tomorrow.

[rica]

7/64 results:

With Ati HDMI Output or MPC HD Audio Renderer i got blue and DTSHD-MA light but no sound.

With Direct Sound and Cyberlink Audio Renderer i got nothing.

I don't have Arcsoft on my 7 btw.

[SamuriHL]

That's STILL different than my results! :(

Default Direct Show: DTS-HD MA light, no audio
ATI HDMI Renderer: DTS-HD MA light, no audio
Cyberlink: LPCM with audio
MPC: DTS-HD MA light, little pops here and there from different speakers

[rica]

That's STILL different than my results! :(

Default Direct Show: DTS-HD MA light, no audio
ATI HDMI Renderer: DTS-HD MA light, no audio
Cyberlink: LPCM with audio
MPC: DTS-HD MA light, little pops here and there from different speakers

What can i do?
You know i use tulli's edidoverride.

[SamuriHL]

You know i use tulli's edidoverride.

And I use my own custom override for my 606 that I made this afternoon. :) I can bitstream flawlessly in PDVD9. And WinDVD still has that wonderful bug of dropping audio every few seconds, but, at least bitstreams.

[rica]

So you should tell how to create your custom override here?

[SamuriHL]

For me it was super easy. Using moninfo on my laptop, I attached the laptop to the receiver using the same cable I have going to my HTPC. The reason is, the 5xxx cards are not able to read realtime EDID info. From there I just did a save as inf. The I copied the inf file to my HTPC, opened up dev manager, selected update driver/have disk, and selected the inf file (make sure it's the ONLY inf in the directory you put it in). Reboot after it's installed. Done. No more handshaking problems at ALL. And bitstreaming is flawless.

[rica]

Thanks but it seems to work for who has the laptop with an HDMI output? Or with a non-Ati HDMI output PC?
At least i have none of them and i created a crappy inf before which never worked at all.

[SamuriHL]

Right, this method requires a non-5xxx card. My laptop has a 3450 which is why I used it. There's no way to get realtime EDID info from a 5xxx card. That's a LOT of the issue.

[albain]

Hello,

currently this is hard to tell what's going on :

1/ The ATI driver would refuse non PAP streams (even if you see light on the receiver it does not necessarily mean that the stream is untouched)
=> I will add PAP support to MPC audio renderer on directsound mode (when I will have time)

2/ The streams must be formatted differently between arcsoft player for the xonar and powerdvd for the ATI
=> I wish the dumper would work on powerdvd. I will work on this when Sebastii will get his receiver back

3/ FFDShow implementation is wrong
=> I will check on this (also) when Sebastii will get his receiver : I really expect ffdshow=>arcsoft renderer=>xonar to work

I am pretty confident on point 3.

Lastly, I am waiting for the release of the passive ATI 5750 for not being "blind" anymore

[SamuriHL]

If no one's tested #3 by tomorrow I'll throw my Xonar in, reinstall it, and give it a try for you. I just don't really want to put it back unless I absolutely have to as I FINALLY have my system running perfectly now without it. #2 doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Shouldn't the streams be formatted the same in order for the receiver to understand and be able to decode them?? :confused: #1 is certainly possible, though. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the driver refused the stream without PAP being enabled. That does suck though if true.

[albain]

No problem, I can work on some things meanwhile

I have to try the following structure as it seems that it is the same used by windvd and powerdvd towards ATI 5xxx

WAVEFORMATEX
wFormatTag : 576
Channels : 2
Bits per sample : 16
Samples per second :48000
nBlockAlign : 4

Also, I have never seen logs from the dumper since the patch is out on powerdvd.

Could you post me one ? I know that powerdvd crash but there are a few things that are dumped out before it crashes (i.e the media structure)

Thanks

Concerning point #2 : IEC61937 (HD bitstream formats) gives rules (that must be followed, for example syncwords, headers...) and recommandations (that are free to follow).
For example for TrueHD Arcsoft uses 61440 bytes for each buffer which is the maximum size and fill its buffers with multiple audio frames.
So other players can formats streams differently and use variable sizes.
And the GPU driver which has to encapsulate those streams with the video part into HDMI can handle things differently too

[Skinleech]

Sorry folks, was out of the country for the last 6 days, and with very limited internet access - when I had the time to check here the forum was down and I didn't think to check the overall doom9 page for info.

I'll get working on testing the latest build with my Xonar later tonight & post back results.

[Sebastiii]

Hi :)

I will try tonight to make log with last patch on PDVD :)
Seb

No avr again, snif !!!!

[albain]

Great ! thank you guys

[albain]

Hi again,

here is a new build (http://damienbt.free.fr/ffdshow_rev3128_20091201_dbt_bitstream_beta43_alternateformat.exe) with the alternate mediatypes (same as windvd)

[Skinleech]

No good news I'm afraid. I can only assume this is an issue with the new FFdshow build as I have made no other changes to the system.

I've managed to get Graphstudio working, but any time I load in the required filters (MPC splitter, ffdshow audio decoder, Arcsoft audio renderer) and connect the pins AC3 Filter automaticially loads inbetween Ffdshow and Arcsoft. If I delete AC3 Filter and try to connect again, it still inserts itself. Using MPC as I normally do, and blocking Ac3 Filterm and setting Ffdshow to prefer doesn't work either - Ffdshow will not load, and I'm left with an alternate audio decoder, such as Dscaler.

Weird. The HTPC is off for now, but I will try again soon.

EDIT: I'll try the new build too.

[SamuriHL]

Now all I get is LPCM decoded tracks??? :confused: Doesn't matter what renderer I use.

[Skinleech]

NO change for me in the new build - any file with HD audio codecs and Ffdshow does not load. If I choose a file with a lossy codec it comes up fine.

[albain]

Ok, forget this one. This was just a shot

[whurlston]

I must be doing something wrong apparently. It seems I'm the only one who is getting TrueHD bitstreaming with build 42.

[albain]

I must be doing something wrong apparently. It seems I'm the only one who is getting TrueHD bitstreaming with build 42.

What do you mean exactly ?

[whurlston]

TrueHD bitstreams using the test file.

My John Mayer 96/24 gives static however. I tried another movie but that didn't bitstream.

I'm going to check the test file for the bitrate/depth and see if I have a movie to match it.

I'll keep you informed.

Edit: the "i must be doing something wrong" was a joke. I couldn't find where anyone else got TrueHD bitstream to work, maybe I missed it though.

[whurlston]

Here are the debug logs (I don't know if they'll help).

I notice they have differing media types but I don't know if that is the issue.

[liquidskin76]

@Albain

I'll test this evening (8 hours from now... uk time!) on my Xonar if Sebastiii or SamuriHL haven't already tested, using the 'Beta42 - Xonar - Arcsoft Renderer' combo as requested.

Keep up the hard work my friend!

[liquidskin76]

I must be doing something wrong apparently. It seems I'm the only one who is getting TrueHD bitstreaming with build 42.

@whurlston

What card are you running... ATI 5xxx or Xonar?

Cheers

[albain]

@whurlston : can you repost your logs somewhere else because the forum approvals are very slow... thanks

[SamuriHL]

OMG! Whurlston is right!!!! I just reinstalled 42 and tried one of my TrueHD tracks and it bitstreamed!!!!!!! I got audio! It was broken up a bit, but, I got audio!!!!!!! I'd been so focused on DTS-HD MA that I must have not run this one file through build 42. Will need to set the deugging keys again before I can get logs to post. But it works!!! Actual real live bitstreaming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SamuriHL]

Ok, now I know why I didn't catch this before. It doesn't work with all my test material. I have 2 TrueHD files. (And am downloading another one purported to work) Only 1 of them bitstreams. The other does not. So there's some work left to be done here. But the fact is, I have a file that can actually bitstream with audio now!!!!

[whurlston]

@whurlston : can you repost your logs somewhere else because the forum approvals are very slow... thanks

Sure.

http://www.oshinetworks.com/DirectShow/NonWorkingTrueHD.txt
http://www.oshinetworks.com/DirectShow/WorkingTrueHD.txt

Tests were done with an ATI 5770, a Yamaha RX-V863 and GraphStudio using the following filters:

MPC - MPEG Source (Gabest)
ffdshow Audio Decoder (bitstream build 42)
Default DirectSound Renderer (ATI HDMI from 9.11)

I can't remember which video filter but it's irrelevant.

[SamuriHL]

whurlston, do you get audio breakups when playing? I tried the file you gave me and it works as well as the file I have...basically it does bitstream with audio, but, I get random dropouts here and there. (Nothing like WinDVD, but, still)

[renethx]

Congratulations, albain. TrueHD bitstreaming is finally working!

HD 5750
Catalyst 9.11
MPC HomeCinema v1.3.1330.0 with internal M2TS source/splitter filter and video decoder
ffdshow beta 42
Windows default audio renderer
TrueHD 7.1ch 96KHz.m2ts (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=05fb19b4b2e4495ee7c82ed4b8f0c380e04e75f6e8ebb871) & TEST_7.1_TRUEHD.m2ts (http://www.oshinetworks.com/DirectShow/TEST_7.1_TRUEHD.m2ts)
ONKYO TX-SA606X

[whurlston]

whurlston, do you get audio breakups when playing? I tried the file you gave me and it works as well as the file I have...basically it does bitstream with audio, but, I get random dropouts here and there. (Nothing like WinDVD, but, still)

I sometimes get dropouts when running DebugView but otherwise, no.

[SamuriHL]

I sometimes get dropouts when running DebugView but otherwise, no.

Hmmm. I am getting some audio dropouts in there, but, I also haven't turned on debug tracing yet, so, it could be a weird timing issue. Also I've yet to get any DTS-MA HD material to bitstream which is frustrating. And I have at least 1 file with TrueHD that doesn't work. So there are some issues, but, at least we know it's possible and that PAP isn't necessary. This is a huge breakthrough!

[liquidskin76]

@SamuriHL

Have you resurrected your Xonar yet? If not, don't worry with the hassle as i'll be testing in a few hours.

Hopefully we'll see the same results with the Xonar... maybe even better with the Xonar/Arcsoft Renderer combo!!!

[SamuriHL]

I have not. It's still sitting on top of the machine. My original plan was to use it in my bedroom HTPC for analog, but, two problems with that one. 1) I didn't get the actual deluxe model, just the regular HDAV 1.3, so, I don't have the daughter board with it. sigh. 2) It won't fit in my bedroom machine's case. So, it sits useless until I figure out what I wanna do with it.

[Skinleech]

I will have another look with beta 42 on the Xonar just now.

[SamuriHL]

The audio dropouts I was getting were only happening in graphstudio. If I open it in MPC-HC, it's flawless. Most impressive.

[SamuriHL]

I think I see a pattern here. Anything touched by tsMuxer doesn't seem to want to bitstream. Whurlston, that file you gave me, not touched with tsMuxer? I'm willing to bet it wasn't.

[whurlston]

The audio dropouts I was getting were only happening in graphstudio. If I open it in MPC-HC, it's flawless. Most impressive.

Were you using the FileSource (Async) connected to a demux to open the file? Or were you using the MPC source filter?

I think I see a pattern here. Anything touched by tsMuxer doesn't seem to want to bitstream. Whurlston, that file you gave me, not touched with tsMuxer? I'm willing to bet it wasn't.

No it wasn't but then neither are any of my other m2ts files but that's the only one I got to work. I think renethx has a second file that worked.

[Skinleech]

Well well. I had the exact same issue as I reported yesterday, with ac3 filter appearing in the chain. I simply unchecked ac3 and DTS from the ffdshow passthrough option and yep, the sample file bitstreamed with very little stutter. I only tried one other TrueHD track (Payback) which gave no sound. DTS-HD MA showed up on the AVR, but no sound.

The Payback m2ts and DTS-HD MA m2ts were not touched by TSMuxer, they are the direct dump m2ts files. Could it be the other audo tracks causing issues? I can't do any further tests until later now.

This was graphstudio btw.

[madshi]

I believe there are some unknown bytes in the bitstream where albain doesn't know what purpose they have. Maybe for the TrueHD files which don't work, these bytes have a different value? I guess albain would need logs from his hook utility to be sure about that. Just guessing here, though...

[SamuriHL]

Were you using the FileSource (Async) connected to a demux to open the file? Or were you using the MPC source filter?


The way I do graphstudio is I right click on the file and say "open with..." and select graphstudio. It then builds a graph for me. (I've said many times I'm lazy! :D) It uses the MPC-MPEG Splitter and creates connections to the ffdshow audio decoder to whatever renderer I want (DirectSound by default) and the MS DTV-DVD Video Decoder for video.


No it wasn't but then neither are any of my other m2ts files but that's the only one I got to work. I think renethx has a second file that worked.

Yea, I'm seeing that now. :( I was hoping the tsMuxer thing would pan out, but, opening Star Trek 2009 directly from disc isn't playing, either. Lights, no audio. I hope albain can use this data to figure out what's up.

@albain, if you need logs from me let me know.

[SamuriHL]

I believe there are some unknown bytes in the bitstream where albain doesn't know what purpose they have. Maybe for the TrueHD files which don't work, these bytes have a different value? I guess albain would need logs from his hook utility to be sure about that. Just guessing here, though...

That's a good possibility. I wish it worked on 64 bit. I'd run it for him now but it no workie for me. sigh. This is at least encouraging for a few reasons. It validates a few things for us:

1) No need for a custom audio renderer for bitstreaming
2) No need for PAP as the driver happily passes it along without it

These are really important findings as they weren't known for sure until now.

[crisscross]

Nice breakthrough! Will a working solution here pave the way for full (no downconverting) range analogue playback with non-PAP soundcards? Or is that a total different matter?