ffdshow tryouts project: Discussion & Development

[albain]

Can anyone confirm that when outputting LPCM directly from the gabest splitter (or MPC-HC) the right rear channel gets a wrong/defect signal? With TrueHD everything is fine.

It seems to be no problem when the decoder of MPC-HC decodes anything to LPCM and FFDSHOW outputs to the renderer. In this case the signal of the right rear channel is correct. A good Blu-ray to test is "300", because it has LPCM, TrueHD and AC3 audio tracks.

I don't know about mpc-hc but there was a recent fix on LPCM, TrueHD, EAC3 channels mapping on FFDShow

[FoLLgoTT]

I don't know about mpc-hc but there was a recent fix on LPCM, TrueHD, EAC3 channels mapping on FFDShow

I use revision 3063 which already includes this fix. It must be a different problem. The mapping is correct (I checked this). Only the right rear outputs a garbled/broken signal with LPCM directly from the splitter.

[iron2000]

Not sure what happened but MPC-HC doesn't use ffdshow for audio after installing 3065.
Going back to 3064 to see if problem persists.

EDIT: ffdshow is back on 3063.

[betaking]

Not sure what happened but MPC-HC doesn't use ffdshow for audio after installing 3065.
Going back to 3064 to see if problem persists.

EDIT: ffdshow is back on 3063.

last mpc-hc 1271 svn i can use ffdshow 3065 for audio!
For those who have problems loading ffdshow, you need to add "mpc-hc.exe" to the whitelist in ffdshow settings (DirectShow control page).

[XhmikosR]

I think that this is fixed in 3067, if I understand the changes correctly.

Download (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3f33c77c2cf9ce251686155677bb26855284166a6fc12f6c).

[betaking]

I think that this is fixed in 3067, if I understand the changes correctly.

Download (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3f33c77c2cf9ce251686155677bb26855284166a6fc12f6c).

installing you build no problem!:thanks:

[iron2000]

Thanks XhmikosR.
3067 is back to normal behavior.

EDIT: Ok found something off:
http://shup.com/Shup/211837/huh.jpg

[_xxl]

EDIT: Ok found something off:
I have this issue with ICL11 and forced loop unrolling. ex:/Qunroll10

[XhmikosR]

Alright I'll use that in my future ICL 11 builds.

[_xxl]

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
http://i30.tinypic.com/2uh4dph.jpg
Since when is rev 610 latest stable release of ffdshow tryouts?

[_xxl]

Alright I'll use that in my future ICL 11 builds.
ex:/Qunroll10
No, MSVC builds are fine, no need for ICL.

[XhmikosR]

Since I have already set up a batch file for this, there is no problem for me to also compile the ICL11 build along with the MSVC build. Unless there is something wrong with the ICL builds.

[ale5000]

No, because Haruhiko (developer) specifically designed it that way. It's the channel responsability to flag the content as they should. I was against this decision precisely because of DVB issues, but I understand his position. You can create a profile with "Process frames flagged as progressive" option checked and set autoload conditions for this kind of streams.
Can it be added but disabled by default?

[Snowknight26]

Does ffdshow not unload the system tray icon properly? After doing some batch encoding, my tray looked like this:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2r4jrjn.jpg

[Mercury_22]

Does ffdshow not unload the system tray icon properly? After doing some batch encoding, my tray looked like this:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2r4jrjn.jpg
I don't think it's FFD's fault see http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=149134

[Snowknight26]

Separate issue as it has nothing to do with Explorer's thumbnails/integraiton. Maybe I should have clarified that after doing some batch encoding with x264, with a graph of Haali Media Splitter -> ffdshow, even after x264 is no longer in the process list, the icons still remain.

Similarly, if I restart explorer.exe, the ffdshow system tray icons disappear if the filters are currently loaded by whatever program.

[Mark_A_W]

You almost got it, it's configureAudioRaw.



Thank you!!

:thanks:

[ryrynz]

Hi Guys,

When I click export all settings and then add the registry file on a fresh install, only a few of my avisynth scripts copy over.
I have 14 right now and only 3 copied across, the rest of the settings are transferred over fine. The avisynth scripts are in the registry file created so I just view the file and manually copy them across. I have used hundreds of builds and the problem has always existed for me.

Regards,
Ryan.

[Mark_A_W]

Mercury, because I have had trouble with both rear outputs with my soundcard and setup (some form of fuzzy mixing between the two) you have sparked my curiosity. I post here because I notice in ffdshow, in the mixer section, the "5 channels" output configuration uses Back L and Back R, where I would have always assumed the rear channels of a 5.1 track would be Side L and Side R. I have my rear speakers setup as per dolby recommendations, at the side, slightly to the rear.

So confused now as to what each piece of the chain intends, the original track, the software like ffdshow, and finally the drivers.


I've just moved to 7.1 and am having the same issue as Mark077.

When I play 5.1 over 7.1 speakers, it comes out the back surrounds. Not the sides, as I expected.

I've been reading through these channel mapping posts, and I will check my Windows speaker settings, but I don't think there is anything "wrong".

With 7.1 the backs are channels 4 and 5 and the sides are 6 and 7.

When you play a 5.1 soundtrack you get channels 4 and 5 going to the Backs, as that's what channel 4 and 5 map to.


It would be nice if ffdshow could have an option to override this, swapping the sides and backs when 5.1 channels are detected when the mixer is set to 7.1. (It detects 2 channel for the DPL2 processing.)


Actually, it would be REALLY NICE if the upmix from 2 channel to 5.1 channel performed by the DPL2 setting could be extended to upmix 5.1 to 7.1!!!


(Also, the channel selections in the Mixer are confusing - specifically the LFE button. I think it would be more user friendly if the LFE button disappeared and the channel descriptions used the more standard "5.1" or "7.1", rather than 5 channels + LFE ticked, or 7 channels + LFE ticked. It's very easy to get wrong.)


Sorry for meandering on...

Mark

[STaRGaZeR]

Can it be added but disabled by default?

I suggested an option for "agressive deinterlacing" or something like that, for flagging all content suspected of being interlaced, but it was not accepted for the same reason as above. Your only option with ffdshow is using autoloaded profiles or change them manually.

[Mercury_22]

I've just moved to 7.1 and am having the same issue as Mark077.

When I play 5.1 over 7.1 speakers, it comes out the back surrounds. Not the sides, as I expected.

I've been reading through these channel mapping posts, and I will check my Windows speaker settings, but I don't think there is anything "wrong".

With 7.1 the backs are channels 4 and 5 and the sides are 6 and 7.

When you play a 5.1 soundtrack you get channels 4 and 5 going to the Backs, as that's what channel 4 and 5 map to.


It would be nice if ffdshow could have an option to override this, swapping the sides and backs when 5.1 channels are detected when the mixer is set to 7.1. (It detects 2 channel for the DPL2 processing.)


Actually, it would be REALLY NICE if the upmix from 2 channel to 5.1 channel performed by the DPL2 setting could be extended to upmix 5.1 to 7.1!!!


(Also, the channel selections in the Mixer are confusing - specifically the LFE button. I think it would be more user friendly if the LFE button disappeared and the channel descriptions used the more standard "5.1" or "7.1", rather than 5 channels + LFE ticked, or 7 channels + LFE ticked. It's very easy to get wrong.)


Sorry for meandering on...

Mark

There is a bit of confusion between the physical positioning of the speakers and the "audio" positioning
AFAIK 5.1 setup has REAR NO SIDE speakers although for this speaker setup some drivers are exposing the side speakers (usually those with dolby)
The most important thing is to check the labels on your sound card's speakers connectors / "holes" to match the labels of the speakers and windows's speaker setup
Your setup sound fine to me have you use any of my test sample files ?

Separate issue as it has nothing to do with Explorer's thumbnails/integraiton. Maybe I should have clarified that after doing some batch encoding with x264, with a graph of Haali Media Splitter -> ffdshow, even after x264 is no longer in the process list, the icons still remain.

Similarly, if I restart explorer.exe, the ffdshow system tray icons disappear if the filters are currently loaded by whatever program.
When they appear there are ONLY ffdshow's system tray icons or Haali's / mkv too ?

[tetsuo55]

Here is a quote from my last post on the subject, this is how it should work:
There is only 1 correct way to set up speakers.

Regardless of how many speakers you have, you should always set them up in this order, having less speakers simply means that a certain speaker is not used.

NOTE: for 6.1 speakers LB is used.(in this configuration the speaker would be placed in the back-center)
NOTE2: Dolby suggests moving the LS and LR speaks slightly more to the back in 5.1 setup

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9582/map.th.png (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/map.png/)

Based on the diagram(ignoring the sub):

1 = L
2 = L,R
3 = L,R,C
4 = L,R,LS,RS
5 = L,R,C,LS,RS
6 = L,R,C,LS,RS,LB
7 = L,R,C,LS,RS,LB,RB

L = Left (front)
R = Right (front)
C = Center (front)
LS = Left Surround Side (often named "back" in 5.1 setup)
RS = Right Surround Side (often named "back" in 5.1 setup)
LB = Left Surround back (This is the "back" or "center back" or "surround center" 6.1 setup)
RB = Right Surround back
S = Subwoofer (often named LFE, this word has several meanings, and is best ignored for speaker setup)

Edit:
Fixed naming, now all the names are industry standard.

If windows does not follow these scheme, we should
A file a bug report
B add a workaround to ffdshow/mpc-hc

[Mark_A_W]

After much discussion with my CRT projector friends, we came to same conclusion as Tetsuo.


When you set a 7.1 channel receiver to 5.1 you get the side speakers.

When I set my Xonar Deluxe soundcard to 5.1, I get the side speakers.


But when playing 5.1 audio over 7.1 speakers, on a PC we get the back channels.

Windows does not seem to behave properly.

An option in the Ffdshow Mixer to work around this would be much appreciated. Or even better, proper 5.1 -> 7.1 upconversion ;)


Mercury, I've been testing using the Microsoft 6 and 8 channel test files. I haven't seen a link to your test files as I browsed though the posts...gotta link?


Mark

[tetsuo55]

After much discussion with my CRT projector friends, we came to same conclusion as Tetsuo.


When you set a 7.1 channel receiver to 5.1 you get the side speakers.

When I set my Xonar Deluxe soundcard to 5.1, I get the side speakers.


But when playing 5.1 audio over 7.1 speakers, on a PC we get the back channels.

Windows does not seem to behave properly.

An option in the Ffdshow Mixer to work around this would be much appreciated. Or even better, proper 5.1 -> 7.1 upconversion ;)


Mercury, I've been testing using the Microsoft 6 and 8 channel test files. I haven't seen a link to your test files as I browsed though the posts...gotta link?


MarkCorrect, the post i made is industry standard, all certified standalone units follow these specs.
It's probably a typo by the windows guys

[Mercury_22]

Here is a quote from my last post on the subject, this is how it should work:


If windows does not follow these scheme, we should
A file a bug report
B add a workaround to ffdshow/mpc-hc

It's not the windows the drivers are exposing the side or the back speakers http://www.freelists.org/post/wdmaudiodev/Vista-51-speaker-mode-question,7 If a
>> system vendor has set the pin config values of the integrated HD
>> Audio device to indicate that the 5.1 device uses side speakers
>> then we expose that to the OS when it asks the driver through the
>> channel config property request but if the system vendor uses the
>> pin config sequence values in the multi-channel device association
>> to indicate that the 5.1 system has rear speakers the HD Audio
>> class driver will expose that to the OS as the channel mask for
>> that device instead.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/audio/PinConfig.mspx
Similarly, it uses the label 5.1 surround sound speakers to identify pairs of configurations that differ only in whether BL and BR speakers are used instead of SL and SR speakers. The reason for not distinguishing between the back-speaker and side-speaker configurations in either case is that home users tend not to distinguish between these speaker positions—the placement of furniture in the room might be the primary factor in determining whether a pair of speakers ends up beside or behind the listener. Forcing users to recognize the subtle differences between these alternate configurations would complicate the user interface for little benefit.

[tetsuo55]

:scared:

That means we have to adjust ffdshow/mpc-hc to work around that problem
what a pita

they are making stupid assumptions where industry standard cannot be any clearer.....

[Mercury_22]

After much discussion with my CRT projector friends, we came to same conclusion as Tetsuo.


When you set a 7.1 channel receiver to 5.1 you get the side speakers.

When I set my Xonar Deluxe soundcard to 5.1, I get the side speakers.


But when playing 5.1 audio over 7.1 speakers, on a PC we get the back channels.

Windows does not seem to behave properly.

An option in the Ffdshow Mixer to work around this would be much appreciated. Or even better, proper 5.1 -> 7.1 upconversion ;)


Mercury, I've been testing using the Microsoft 6 and 8 channel test files. I haven't seen a link to your test files as I browsed though the posts...gotta link?


Mark

Test 5.1 AC3 (Dolby Digital) (http://www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/)
Test 7.1 E-AC3 (Dolby Digital Plus) (http://sharebee.com/69772daa)
Test 7.1 Dolby TrueHD (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7P9P81CW)
Test 7.1 DTS-HD HR (http://sharebee.com/abf92989)
Test 7.1 LPCM (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0HM2JCEP)

EDIT:
So, about the back or side speakers setup,the way you physically setup your speaker it's as you please, but the purpose being for you to hear the sound exactly the way it was intended by the "author", my recommendation to all those using 5.1 speakers is to use the 7.1 speaker setup in windows and to connect the surround speakers to the back speakers connector on your sound card to avoid any problems created by your drivers config cause :

Similarly, it uses the label 5.1 surround sound speakers to identify pairs of configurations that differ only in whether BL and BR speakers are used instead of SL and SR speakers. The reason for not distinguishing between the back-speaker and side-speaker configurations in either case is that home users tend not to distinguish between these speaker positions—the placement of furniture in the room might be the primary factor in determining whether a pair of speakers ends up beside or behind the listener. Forcing users to recognize the subtle differences between these alternate configurations would complicate the user interface for little benefit. (http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/c/5/9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a/PinConfig.doc)

Assuming your sound card support up to 8 channels :)

[Mark_A_W]

Thanks for the links to the test files.


We do seem to be talking about slightly different things.


My issue occurs when you have 7.1 speakers connected, and 7.1 speakers active in the soundcard driver's control panel....then play a 5.1 channel soundtrack. That's when the surround channels come out the backs instead of the sides.

I think you are talking about setting up 5.1 speakers using 7.1 windows/soundcard settings, which is not my setup.


If I manually intervene and set the soundcard to 5.1, I then get the surround channels coming out the sides. But I'd prefer not to do that.


From the reading I've done, it really does seem like an option in ffdshow to workaround this issue would be nice (a button that appears when 7 channels is selected in mixer (and only then), which says "Swap Surrounds for 5.1 signal Side/Back" or somesuch. Or better, 5.1 to 7.1 Prologic II.

[Mercury_22]

Thanks for the links to the test files.


We do seem to be talking about slightly different things.


My issue occurs when you have 7.1 speakers connected, and 7.1 speakers active in the soundcard driver's control panel....then play a 5.1 channel soundtrack. That's when the surround channels come out the backs instead of the sides.

I think you are talking about setting up 5.1 speakers using 7.1 windows/soundcard settings, which is not my setup.


If I manually intervene and set the soundcard to 5.1, I then get the surround channels coming out the sides. But I'd prefer not to do that.


From the reading I've done, it really does seem like an option in ffdshow to workaround this issue would be nice (a button that appears when 7 channels is selected in mixer (and only then), which says "Swap Surrounds for 5.1 signal Side/Back" or somesuch. Or better, 5.1 to 7.1 Prologic II.

As I've said above ...
Your setup sound fine to me have you use any of my test sample files ?...
Using the 5.1 test file your channels don't seem to be correct mapped ?
Again AFAIK 5.1 sound track has back channels not side Dolby recommendation it's referring to physical positioning

[ryrynz]

Hi guys,

When you select a profile/preset settings window pane it doesn't update the selected profile when you click on the notification icon.

Regards,
Ryan.

[Mark_A_W]

As I've said above
Using the 5.1 test file your channels don't seem to be correct mapped ?
Again AFAIK 5.1 sound track has back channels not side Dolby recommendation it's referring to physical positioning


These test files give the same result as the Windows ones (of course!).

As expected, when playing the 5.1 test track over 7.1 speakers, the BACK channels are active.

It should be the SIDE channels.

[Mercury_22]

These test files give the same result as the Windows ones (of course!).

As expected, when playing the 5.1 test track over 7.1 speakers, the BACK channels are active.

It should be the SIDE channels.

Well let's agree to disagree, :) as the video shows I say
It should be the BACK channels

EDIT: If you use any other codec what channels / speakers are used ?

[mark0077]

Mark_A_W, I think you are also using a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe right?

Did you ever manage to sort the upmixing of channels on it? I find it hard to get a combination of setting that stops upmixing of channels, or what seems like bleeding of side channels into rear channels on surround tests.

[Mark_A_W]

Mark_A_W, I think you are also using a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe right?

Did you ever manage to sort the upmixing of channels on it? I find it hard to get a combination of setting that stops upmixing of channels, or what seems like bleeding of side channels into rear channels on surround tests.


Yes, a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe, on Vista32, analogue out to poweramps, using the 1764 driver (maybe the 1771 W7 driver...I forget). All settings OFF except Flexbass, Splendid crap not installed, just the base driver.

I've never had your channel bleeding issue. All channels are discrete, always, when playing 7.1 channel test files.

For the upmixing issue, I simply send it 7.1 channels using ffdshow audio, for all material. It thinks it's getting 7.1, so never upmixes, even for 2 channel material.

If I want to turn 2 channel into 5.1, I use ffdshow audio's Dolby Prologic II setting (which would be nice if it would upmix 2 channel to 7.1, and 5.1 to 7.1!!!! HINT HINT!!).

[mark0077]

hah excellent, yeah ffdshows mixer was a lifesaver for me. Would be good to get all of this rear versus side channels stuff cleared up.

[ryrynz]

XhmikosR I did a quick test with one of my scripts of your icl11 build vs clsid's builds and didn't see any real difference in performance. Just thought I'd pass that on, cheers.

[XhmikosR]

And that's the expected behavior. In general the performance improvement is negligible. Anyway, I only have ICL11 that's why I build this version.

Although I'm using ICL v11.0.072 for my builds, I thought I'd try to use the latest ICL v11.1.038 but something is not working, I don't see ffdshow audio to be used on Win 7.

If someone has the latest version of ICL10, I'd like to give it a go to see if this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1322542#post1322542) problem is also solved, because with ICL11 even if I use /Qunroll10 I get the same results as without using it.

[Mercury_22]

And that's the expected behavior. In general the performance improvement is negligible. Anyway, I only have ICL11 that's why I build this version.

Although I'm using ICL v11.0.072 for my builds, I thought I'd try to use the latest ICL v11.1.038 but something is not working, I don't see ffdshow audio to be used on Win 7.

If someone has the latest version of ICL10, I'd like to give it a go to see if this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1322542#post1322542) problem is also solved, because with ICL11 even if I use /Qunroll10 I get the same results as without using it.

The audio has been broken on x64 versions somewhere between 3054 and 3058

...

EDIT: Last (tested) working version is 3054, first (tested) broken 3058

[XhmikosR]

You mean only with my builds? Because I haven't changed anything.

[Mercury_22]

You mean only with my builds? Because I haven't changed anything.
NO ! All builds !
Alexins also reported the same problem but in ICL10
Replacing the file does not change anything. The same problem exists with the ffdshow x86 icl10 3056-3063. and I can confirm that, tested with ffdshow_rev3065_20090902_clsid_icl10

The bug has been introduced most likely in 3056 and it's in ffdshow.ax !

The libavcodec.dll (3063 replaced with 3054) trick has no result = no changes and I can't find the allowDPRINTF key I even did a full registry search for allowDPRINTF It should be the same path for the x86 version on a x86 windows so if you can be more precisely (HKLM\Software\GNU ? HKCU\Software\GNU ? or ?)

EDIT: Replacing the ffdshow.ax with the old one (3054) does the trick = ffd it's connectable (working)

[XhmikosR]

There is nothing I can do since as you say there is something wrong in the code. I was talking about compiler specific things.

[clsid]

Hopefully Albain can track down that bug.

[Mercury_22]

Hopefully Albain can track down that bug.
ICL10 and x64 audio are not working only on Win7 ?

[clsid]

It also doesn't work with Vista x64.

[albain]

It also doesn't work with Vista x64.

OK but according to that post it works again in recent revisions :
Ok I've solved the allowDPRINTF key "mystery" first it has to be created by checking the "Output strings to debugger" but I have no log file (maybe because FFD audio it's not connecting )where should it be? C:\Program Files\ffdshow ? or C:\ ? or...?

EDIT: ICL11 rev 3063 it's working ! http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3f33c77c2cf9ce251686155677bb26855284166a6fc12f6c

I am not sure to understand the problem, I am working on it

@Mercury_22 : when you posted the DPRINTF traces, with which revision you did your tests ? if revision was < 3059, could you do the test again with more recent revision and post the traces ?
From what I can see the loaded decoder was liba52, do you send the stream to spdif or make it decode internally by liba52 ?

Thanks

[Mercury_22]

OK but according to that post it works again in recent revisions :


I am not sure to understand the problem, I am working on it

@Mercury_22 : when you posted the DPRINTF traces, with which revision you did your tests ? if revision was < 3059, could you do the test again with more recent revision and post the traces ?
From what I can see the loaded decoder was liba52, do you send the stream to spdif or make it decode internally by liba52 ?

Thanks

DPRINTF traces for ffdshow_rev3069_20090907_x64 (http://sharebee.com/5d3a554c)

The audio in FFDShow x64 and ICL10 (I've tested ffdshow_rev3065_20090902_clsid_icl10) versions it's not working !!! = even that the FFDShow's Audio merit it's at default = the highest on my system other filters get connected
This is happening to any audio type LPCM AC3 DTS TRUEHD...
Replacing ffdshow.ax with the one from rev 3054 x64 (for the x64 version of course ) it's solving the problem !

P.S. ffdshow_rev3069_20090907r_icl11 and ffdshow_rev3069_20090907 (x86) are working normally

[albain]

OK thanks, I am anlyzing it

Meanwhile I committed some fixes to definitely remove any traces of the windows 7 structure as I have so far no answer from microsoft. Maybe this will solve the problem

Revision 3071

I will try to post you ffdshow.ax only for 64 bits for that revision

*EDIT* Here is ffdshow.ax x64 revision 3071 compiled under MSVC 2008. Don't take in account the UI changes in the output section of FFDSHow audio
ffdshow.ax - 4.49MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/65312328200c900b/)

Copy it in program files and with an admin dos window just type :
regsvr32 /s /u ffdshow.ax
regsvr32 /s ffdshow.ax

[Mercury_22]

OK thanks, I am anlyzing it

Meanwhile I committed some fixes to definitely remove any traces of the windows 7 structure as I have so far no answer from microsoft. Maybe this will solve the problem

Revision 3071

I will try to post you ffdshow.ax only for 64 bits for that revision

*EDIT* Here is ffdshow.ax x64 revision 3071 compiled under MSVC 2008. Don't take in account the UI changes in the output section of FFDSHow audio
ffdshow.ax - 4.49MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/65312328200c900b/)

Copy it in program files and with an admin dos window just type :

It's working ! :)

[albain]

It's working ! :)



:) Glad to "hear" !

[alexins]

albain
:thanks: