ffdshow tryouts project: Discussion & Development [Archive] - Page 158

17th August 2009, 17:09

I sharpen with ffdshow, yes (needed for downscaling in order not to have a too blury picture). but how 'before hardware deinterlacing', can I influence the order which of these comes first?
You can't. AFAIK, hardware deinterlacing (and other hardware postprocessing) is done at the rendering stage, so ffdshow can't get the frames back for further processing.

leeperry

17th August 2009, 17:12

sharpen with ffdshow [..] hardware deinterlacing
you only option is the PS sharpening scripts in MPC/KMP I think..try the default one at 0.65, it looks good, not as good as LSF though.

or through your graphic card drivers maybe?

Thunderbolt8

17th August 2009, 18:18

hm I have a radeon 4770, at least I haven't seen such an option in catalyst control center

17th August 2009, 18:27

hm I have a radeon 4770, at least I haven't seen such an option in catalyst control center
Looks like edge enhancement and denoising should be adjustable (or at least used to be): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1060000

Thunderbolt8

17th August 2009, 18:46

wtf, denoising of 64 is the default setting 0o

in order to be as close to be to the original intended presentation as possible, I guess such options as denoising & edge enhancement & dynamic constrast have to be disabled then?

17th August 2009, 19:04

in order to be as close to be to the original intended presentation as possible, I guess such options as denoising & edge enhancement & dynamic constrast have to be disabled then?
Yes, if the video is intended to look the way it does. Your sample most likely isn't. ;)

One of the reasons for denoising by default is that review sites test the video playback quality of graphics cards and other devices by playing benchmark videos such as HD HQV. The tested device gets better benchmark scores if it denoises noisy scenes properly.

leeperry

17th August 2009, 20:17

hehe, you opened Pandora's box...graphic drivers doing funky stuff on VMR/EVR(especially ATi). there's a good reason why some ppl prefer HR/mVR :D

ikarad

18th August 2009, 20:40

What means "Added new audio structure for windows 7" in rev 3056?

"Revision 3056 - Directory Listing
Modified Mon Aug 17 12:37:38 2009 UTC (30 hours, 59 minutes ago) by albain

Added new audio structure for windows 7
Added a verification of supported output sample format when the codec changes"

clsid

18th August 2009, 22:31

It means better S/PDIF support.

Mercury_22

19th August 2009, 22:06

Some interesting news Dolby Digital Plus Chosen as an Audio Format for Windows 7 (http://investor.dolby.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=403647) !
Maybe we will need the full 7.1 channels DD+ working in the end, cause this may rise back the almost dead DD+ format ?!

Revgen

20th August 2009, 02:26

Seems like they are saying that Dolby Digital Decoding will be present in all Windows Operating systems. The reference decoder will ship with Windows 7.

Therefor Windows 7 users may not even need FFDShow for EAC3 decoding.

Mercury_22

20th August 2009, 08:00

albain

20th August 2009, 09:51

So far I have no answer from Microsoft on bitstream
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/fr-FR/windowsdirectshowdevelopment/thread/6e5985fb-3ca2-41b3-9a99-7a9b97ae7357

About revision 3056, a few details :

About the new audio structure : this new audio structure supported only on windows 7 (maybe on vista in the future) is supposed to bring bitstream of compressed format to the HDMI/SPDIF output, supposing that your HT system will support the decoding of these formats. This will be useful especially for DTS-HD decoding (no open source decoder exists yet), and for other formats where HT systems sometimes decode better.
Better SPDIF support : currently there are several source filters that are not up to date and for example tell FFDShow the stream is DolbyDigital when this TrueHD or EAC3... So the codec change and the output format may change too. In this case the output filter (audio renderer) may not be compatible. So a verification has been added before changing the output format, and if not compatible, decode internally

Today some commercial filters are able even on xp/vista to bitstream compressed formats to the HDMI output : totalmedia theatre sends TrueHD/DTSHD directly to the HDMI 1.3 output, requiring a asus xonar, but this requirement is only to ensure the protected audio path, otherwise technically it is possible to do it on any HDMI output.
So either this feature is brought by the OS and can be implemented into ffdshow, or else a new audio renderer will be required I guess and/or a new audio driver

Octo-puss

20th August 2009, 12:50

I came along somewhat interesting discussion. A dude said "why would I use FFDShow when MPC-HC plays everything for me?". Well, what would you tell him?

DarkZell666

20th August 2009, 12:54

I came along somewhat interesting discussion. A dude said "why would I use FFDShow when MPC-HC plays everything for me?". Well, what would you tell him?

If he's happy with MPC-HC, leave him alone, unless you know ffdshow-tryouts offers extra functionnalities he might want, without breaking MPC-HC's.

Mercury_22

20th August 2009, 13:34

I came along somewhat interesting discussion. A dude said "why would I use FFDShow when MPC-HC plays everything for me?". Well, what would you tell him?

On a windows 7 system if MPC-HC will replace ffmpeg with ffmpeg-mt (for the non-DXVA files) and will add independent volume for each channel I'll say the same thing, cause for me Winows 7's (DXVA) filters are better then FFDShow's or MPC-HC'S

albain

20th August 2009, 16:10

On a windows 7 system if MPC-HC will replace ffmpeg with ffmpeg-mt (for the non-DXVA files) and will add independent volume for each channel I'll say the same thing, cause for me Winows 7's (DXVA) filters are better then FFDShow's or MPC-HC'S

I disagree, I find DXVA decoding (sometimes) less good than software decoding (for example coreavc without cuda or some software mpeg2 decoders).

Snowknight26

20th August 2009, 16:33

Would it be possible to have the option 'Show current volume levels' actually show them when Volume is not checked?

ohmy

20th August 2009, 16:57

Hi!

I'm a longtime ffdshow and MPC user, and still use ffdshow, although MPC-HC can play almost anything now just like ffdshow. But the subtitle feature is much better in ffdshow with its heuristic search and additional options.

Lately I noticed something. Some movies need volume normalising because of their loud explosions and almost silent voices. I used ffdshow for this, but it didn't help much. It is changing the volume, but only slightly. Voices still low, Explosions high. Regain volume was checked/unchecked, max. amplification changed.

Than I tried MPC-HC normalise option and Wow, it did exactly what I wanted. Everything was normalised at the instant I checked the normalise option. Voices were audible, and explosions went down to the same level. The movie became watchable without constantly changing the volume on the remote.

Is it possible to make an MPC-HC like normalisation? Maybe as a new option at the Volume tab.

clsid

20th August 2009, 17:07

Would it be possible to have the option 'Show current volume levels' actually show them when Volume is not checked?
That would waste CPU cycle for everyone that never looks there.
At default settings, Volume should not alter the sound, so enable it when you want to see the volume levels.

clsid

20th August 2009, 17:09

@ohmy
You probably have wrong speaker settings in ffdshow. Enable the 'Mixer' and set the correct amount of speakers.

ohmy

20th August 2009, 17:18

@ohmy
You probably have wrong speaker settings in ffdshow. Enable the 'Mixer' and set the correct amount of speakers.

I have 2 speakers. Mixer is enabled, and set to stereo.
MPC-HC and ffdshow normalisation still don't behave the same.

Snowknight26

20th August 2009, 17:37

That would waste CPU cycle for everyone that never looks there.
At default settings, Volume should not alter the sound, so enable it when you want to see the volume levels.

In the end though, it's just an extra step to do that as it would be the user's choice to have it checked.

ohmy

20th August 2009, 18:47

Here's a sample file for my volume normalization problem. It's a fake trailer to an upcoming movie grabbed from youtube:

http://rapidshare.com/files/269547376/safa.mp4.html

I modified the first half of it, so the sound is very quiet (20%), and in the second half it changes back to normal. (100%)
The sound change is at 0:54

While MPC-HC makes the volume level equal and sounds good, ffdshow seems to do almost nothing:(

Octo-puss

20th August 2009, 20:21

On a windows 7 system if MPC-HC will replace ffmpeg with ffmpeg-mt (for the non-DXVA files) and will add independent volume for each channel I'll say the same thing, cause for me Winows 7's (DXVA) filters are better then FFDShow's or MPC-HC'S

That's interesting. But how do I force MPC-HC to use Windows' filters rather the builtin ones?

clsid

20th August 2009, 20:36

@Octo-puss
Simply disable the internal ones in MPC-HC. Options -> Internal Filters.

@ohmy
For me volume normalization works pretty good when using ffdshow. I don't recall any others who have troubles with it. Are you sure ffdshow is being used and not any of the internal decoder of MPC-HC?

ohmy

20th August 2009, 21:16

@clsid
I'm sure, it's not MPC-HC-s internal decoder. All the transform filters are unchecked, and the audio is also unchecked. If it is checked, the normalization is working:)

The ffdshow audio icon is present while playing the file. The volume option is checked, and looking at the volume levels, it shows, that the first half is quieter, than the second half.
In ffdshow audio the following are checked: normalize, regain volume. Master volume is set to 100%. Max. amplification set to 400%.

And normalization is working, but it's not as strong as MPC-HC's. With only ffdshow there is an obvious volume change at 0:54. With MPC-HC, it can't be heard.

OK, I tried with GOM player using FFdshow. It is doing the same thing. The sound gets much better, when I click GOM player's normalize option.

ffdshow is at rev. 3054

Leak

20th August 2009, 22:34

@ohmy
For me volume normalization works pretty good when using ffdshow. I don't recall any others who have troubles with it. Are you sure ffdshow is being used and not any of the internal decoder of MPC-HC?
Errr... (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1197804#post1197804) (I guess that was the last time normalization came up here...)

np: Billy Bragg - M For Me (Mr. Love & Justice (Solo Version))

ikarad

21st August 2009, 12:14

I have a problem with ffdshow 64 and mpc-hc 64. If I use deband filter, I have desynchronisation of video and sound.
With 32 bits version, I have no problem.

I use ffdshow 64 3054

Leak

21st August 2009, 17:07

I have a problem with ffdshow 64 and mpc-hc 64. If I use deband filter, I have desynchronisation of video and sound.
With 32 bits version, I have no problem.
Check the CPU usage. I'm pretty sure the 64 bit version of ffdshow uses pure C code for deband, so it's simply running out of CPU power...

np: Moonbeam - You Can Hear Them (100)

ikarad

21st August 2009, 18:16

Check the CPU usage. I'm pretty sure the 64 bit version of ffdshow uses pure C code for deband, so it's simply running out of CPU power...

np: Moonbeam - You Can Hear Them (100)

I check and I have no problem with cpu load. my cpu load is 30% even with deband. Q6600@3ghz.

The problem exist with all videos: a simple divx or mkv with light cpu load until bluray movie.

with ffshow 32bits, there is no problem.

It's a bug with deband under ffdshow 64 bits.

21st August 2009, 18:50

I check and I have no problem with cpu load. my cpu load is 30% even with deband. Q6600@3ghz.
One core or overall load? 25 % overall can mean that one core of a quad is fully saturated.

ikarad

21st August 2009, 21:36

One core or overall load? 25 % overall can mean that one core of a quad is fully saturated.

each core is 30% load, no core saturated.

but even with video with 5 % core load, deband doesn't work with ffdshow 64.

with ffdshow 32 it works very well with each movie.

It's just a bug of deband with ffdshow 64.

Leak

22nd August 2009, 11:20

each core is 30% load, no core saturated.
Forget that. That's one process being bounced around all 4 cores to keep the CPU temperature down by distributing the produced heat over all cores.

Just look at the "Process" page in Task Manager. If the player process is using 25% CPU one core IS saturated, and ffdshow is going to be dropping frames. And yes, ffdshow 64 has no optimized assembly code for deband. That's why it's a lot slower.

Why use ffdshow 64 anyway?

np: Whitetree - Koepenik (Cloudland)

ikarad

22nd August 2009, 21:29

Forget that. That's one process being bounced around all 4 cores to keep the CPU temperature down by distributing the produced heat over all cores.

Just look at the "Process" page in Task Manager. If the player process is using 25% CPU one core IS saturated, and ffdshow is going to be dropping frames. And yes, ffdshow 64 has no optimized assembly code for deband. That's why it's a lot slower.

Why use ffdshow 64 anyway?

np: Whitetree - Koepenik (Cloudland)

i already said, no core is saturated. It's the third time that I said. I am not stupid.

Even with simple mkv where each core is 5% load, deband with ffdshow 64 doesn't work and video is desynchronized. With ffsdhow 32 it works very well. although, core load for each cores is the same between ffdshow 32 and ffdshow 64.

I confirm there is a problem between deband and ffdshow 64 3054.

I want to try ffdshow 64 because I use a 64 bits OS. If ffdshow 64 exists it's to be used.

I only just report a bug for that this bug will be corrected in a new version.

Leak

22nd August 2009, 21:58

I want to try ffdshow 64 because I use a 64 bits OS. If ffdshow 64 exists it's to be used.
I run a 64 bit OS (Windows 7) myself and I wouldn't even think of installing ffdshow 64 - unless your media playback needs more than 2 gigs of RAM AND every codec, filter and player you use is available as a 64 bit version you'll be missing something, and the playback experience can't get any smoother if it's already smooth with the 32 bit version.

Granted, AFAIK there's no 32 bit version of Windows Media Center installed with the 64 bit version, but except for that I'd steer far away from 64 bit media playback...

np: Fink - If I Had A Million (Sort Of Revolution)

ikarad

23rd August 2009, 11:05

I run a 64 bit OS (Windows 7) myself and I wouldn't even think of installing ffdshow 64 - unless your media playback needs more than 2 gigs of RAM AND every codec, filter and player you use is available as a 64 bit version you'll be missing something, and the playback experience can't get any smoother if it's already smooth with the 32 bit version.

listen, if ffdshow 64 doesn't interesting for you, it's your problem. Your opinion doesn't interest me. I only report a bug, not a debate..

Like I said, I just tried ffdshow 64 to see the differences (I have the right to test, no?) and I report a bug. If ffdshow 64 is more faster or less faster than ffdshow 32 it's not my problem. I just report a bug.

Do you know what means a bug?

thank you to understand that a debate on the uselfull of ffdshow 64 or not isn't the problem. I don't care if ffdshow 64 is more faster than ffdshow 32 or not. The problem is that deband filter doesn't work with ffdshow 64 3054rev.

clsid

23rd August 2009, 11:21

clsid

23rd August 2009, 11:42

@albain

There seems to some bugs in revision 3056. I have seen several reports of people with audio problems.
1) AVI files with MP3 audio give mono output (right channel) instead of stereo (tested on XP and Vista).
2) Input channels on Volume page are wrong. For example stereo input shows BackL and LFE as active. Mono input shows LFE as active input.
3) ffdshow connects to MONOGRAM AMR Encoder or AC3Filter when enabling SPDIF.

ikarad

23rd August 2009, 12:18

It is your choice to use it. We can only advice not to use it. The chance that the deband bug will be fixed is very small, unless you can find a new developer that want to spend time on figuring out why that particular code does not work for 64-bit builds.

why make a 64 bits version of ffdshow if this version is inadvisable? It would be interresting to disable filters on ffdshow 64 that don't work.

clsid

23rd August 2009, 13:24

albain

23rd August 2009, 18:00

clsid

23rd August 2009, 18:41

Ok. Thanks.

albain

23rd August 2009, 18:55

The is a 64-bit build because some people do have a valid reason for using it. Of course broken functionality could be disabled. There just needs to be somebody that wants to test everything and adjust the code. This project is run by volunteers.

Also FFDShow 64 is for many formats the only alternative for using with Media Center which uses directshow64

Otherwise, I think I have fixed the problem for stereo giving mono. I disabled the new audio structure temporarirely. If I can't find the solution I will remove it.

mark0077

24th August 2009, 19:56

Guys, not sure if this could be classed as a bug or not, but I am using ffdshow with mpc-hc to convert some interlaced content to progressive.

I am using the de-interlace, resize and finally grab feature of ffdshow to get the effect I want in the output file. I am able to grab perfectly de-interlaced frames at the correct resolution. Unfortunately, even though I have asked ffdshow grab to grab every frame, it seems like every second frame is missed.

Is grab in this case incorrectly doing its thing based on frame numbers from the input file, or from the output from the yadif de-interlacer. I think it should grab frames coming from the de-interlacer, ie give me 50 grabs per second of video instead of 25.

Thanks

diizzy

25th August 2009, 10:52

As usual, a big thanks to the developers and contributors for keeping this project alive.

I just have a small question in case I'm missing something, this "issue" is on both Vista and Win7 if you have your computer hooked up to a receiver with HDMI. If you set your speaker set to 5.1 Windows always outputs it as 5.1 (multichannel) but with only L,R active if you have a stereo source. The workaround would be to enable some surround effect in either ffdshow or in Windows (I only think its available in Windows 7) if you want sound in all speakers. Is it possible to force regular stereo output for 2 ch sound like when you set 2 speakers in Windows so the stream is truly 2ch?
That way you can use upmixing features on your reciever.

Thanks in advance
//Danne

clsid

25th August 2009, 11:17

I don't think there is such an option in Windows itself. You would have to check the settings of your sound driver. If you have a fancy sound card, then there may be such an option.

diizzy

25th August 2009, 11:25

Realtek doesn't seem to have such an option...
I think users would've noticed this issue earlier though...
//Danne

yesgrey

25th August 2009, 12:23

Is it possible to force regular stereo output for 2 ch sound like when you set 2 speakers in Windows so the stream is truly 2ch?
Have you tryed with reclock? I'm not sure, but maybe reclock could do that for you...

leeperry

25th August 2009, 13:05

I am using ffdshow with mpc-hc to convert some interlaced content to progressive.
BTW, my first filter in fffdshow is YADIF("process frames flagged as progressive" disabled), so ideally it should only turn itself on for interlaced content...but it's been processing progressive content as well lately :o

I think it started to happen after I upgraded to a newer version...how can I check if ffdshow detected an interlaced source? I loved when it was fully automatic, I'll try to change the MPEG decoders maybe....I think it was working fine w/ the MPC-HC decoder, which seemed to set the interlaced bit properly.