MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread [Archive] - Page 50

aron7awol

12th October 2022, 20:32

0.1 = 1000 nits, you want a smaller value as dark threshold.
It's 0.1 in PQ, so about 0.33 nits.

I will actually move the dark check above the conversions to be more efficient, though. This was cobbled together quickly and isn't fully optimized yet.

I also added an option to black out pixels inside gamut, showing only pixels outside gamut, as-is.

Edit: It now defaults to leaving out-of-gamut pixels alone and desaturating inside-gamut pixels.

Alexkral

13th October 2022, 01:59

Yes sorry. I did this some time ago and found that most, if not all of the out of gamut pixels, were right on the edges. So it is probably due to doing multiple conversions without the necessary precision.

Also, the function you're using to check that the point is inside the triangle isn't the most accurate it's possible to do, but I don't think that changes anything.

aron7awol

13th October 2022, 03:53

Yes sorry. I did this some time ago and found that most, if not all of the out of gamut pixels, were right on the edges. So it is probably due to doing multiple conversions without the necessary precision.
FWIW, I did some spot checking of the shader by comparing to opening files in DaVinci Resolve and it seemed to be working very well. I'm not sure what content you checked exactly, but there is a good amount of content which goes way beyond the edges, confirmed by viewing in Resolve.
Also, the function you're using to check that the point is inside the triangle isn't the most accurate it's possible to do, but I don't think that changes anything.
Are you sure about that? The reason I switched to this particular method is because it was confirmed to even work with points which fall exactly on the edge of the triangle. Obviously precision is a separate issue, but I wanted to at least use an algo that handled edge cases properly.

See here:
https://stackoverflow.com/a/20861130

Previously I had been using a simpler triangle check of comparing gamut area with the sum of the areas of the triangles formed by the point and pairs of primaries, which I knew wasn't perfect (but I was trying to do a really quick first implementation), and I added a small fudge factor to the main triangle area to eliminate false positives. But after I switched to this method I compared both methods and they gave very similar results other than the slight difference of things tightening up by not needing/using a fudge factor.

In any case, obviously a hard line is always going to be sort of arbitrary. I mean, it's not like P3 red sucks and just barely beyond P3 red is amazing; in reality they look about the same. But it's still useful to see what is in the the content, and I've already thought about extending the functionality to differentiate further by distance from the boundary.

Alexkral

13th October 2022, 05:00

Are you sure about that?

Not really, not an expert at all, but if you read the comments you'll see that all these methods have some specific problem, so I ended up combining several as suggested here:

http://totologic.blogspot.com/2014/01/accurate-point-in-triangle-test.html

I'm not sure what content you checked exactly, but there is a good amount of content which goes way beyond the edges, confirmed by viewing in Resolve.

I did it to check if the DCI-P3 content in a BT.2020 container was really limited to that space. I tried it with some UHD Blu-ray movies, not extensively, but that's what I found in all cases. I also remember that most of the out of gamut pixels were concentrated around the middle of the edges, that is, in the location of the secondary colors (particularly magenta).

This was a few years ago however, I have no idea what the result would be with more current content.

chros

23rd October 2022, 21:29

New bscpylgtv v0.4.0 (https://github.com/chros73/bscpylgtv/releases) is out, it's mostly about calibration changes, lot of new stuff has been added. :)
Big thanks to Hifi4Vision, without him half of the new stuff couldn't have been done. Interesting parts:
- we have get calibration methods now, although they are completely broken on >=2020 models :)
- and ability to reset factory calibration data uploaded via calibration API!!! No more factory reset!!! :)

Enjoy!

@aron7awol, I hope you still have an LG Oled around :) Btw, which qd-oled have you got, samsung or sony? And how do you like it ...

aron7awol

24th October 2022, 03:40

Btw, which qd-oled have you got, samsung or sony? And how do you like it ...
Samsung (the prices are crazy low here with EPP). Love love love it. Will be ordering the 77 as soon as it's available!

Did you play with my pixel shader at all? I have been working on enhancing it to give the option to hide colors which are beyond P3 but not far enough to be perceptible. To do this I have tried a couple different gamut mapping approaches, hard clip to P3 RGB, and geometric mapping to the P3 gamut boundary within xyY space, and then calculating dEITP between those and the original pixel.

Edit: Updated the shader to be a lot more flexible with the ability to filter by a threshold of dEITP vs clipping to P3. Also, please check out the second post, where I compiled some interesting ICtCp color volume data at different levels of black and peak white, along with gamut.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/checking-for-bt-2020-color-gamut-usage-beyond-p3-in-real-content.3256532/

chros

29th October 2022, 21:27

bscpylgtv 0.4.1 (https://github.com/chros73/bscpylgtv/releases) is out.

Damien147

8th November 2022, 14:57

Long story short I am thinking of waiting for the next gen qd oled from samsung and buy it if it's similarly priced as this gen.My question is if it's supposedly hdmi version 2.1a can I get away with my hdmi version 2.0b card for watching HDR with madvr or do I need a new card?I've read that 2.1a brings some changes for HDR but do I really need a card that supports that version if my higher aim is 23hz HDR with Madvr?

edit:

HDMI 2.1a Dynamic HDR

No, but it will be necessary to enable 4K120 and 8K60 video with HDR due to the high bandwidth required by these resolutions and refresh rates.

The question was if a new cable is required for Dynamic HDR.

I guess I am fine with my 2.0b card.

Damien147

14th November 2022, 17:35

PC mode is 60hz only?I mean can you have 23hz together with 4:4:4 on your TV?

chros

14th November 2022, 18:56

Yes, you can on LG Oleds, and no new card is required for <=60 Hz.
Which TV do you have?

Damien147

14th November 2022, 22:55

I am not asking for the TV that I own now but for the one I am gonna buy next year if everything goes fine.Looking to learn some stuff and I am asking you guys here because you have a descent TV with HDR.Can 23hz+4:4:4+HDR be done or am I talking nonsense now?

As I said earlier I am planning to buy next gen qd oled from samsung if the price is similar as this gen.Yeah,it's too early as it doesn't exist yet but I am curious.

huhn

15th November 2022, 02:48

it's a very common feature for many many years now.
there are some brands that struggles a couple years ago and may still do that but the majority can do that.
TVs 10-15 years go could do that you just hat to get the correct one.

these qd things from Samsung are not recommendable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhto9MmiExE handsdown just bad.

if you want that tech get one that is not from Samsung.

Damien147

15th November 2022, 11:36

Yeah,I was reading and watching videos a few months ago about some never seen colors and stuff from reviewers and it was proven BS.
I've seen that video a few days ago and then I've seen another or read that they released a firmware update that adresses the thingy with the ''magical'' colors.Maybe they will cut the crap after being ''exposed'' this year.
Yesterday I checked the price of the 55 inch qd oled from samsung and it dropped to ~1200 euro.Of course it's also the price that I want one.Well,let's see what next gen brings.

You guys with your HDR TVs and a meter(for calibration) do you use a meter in any way to watch HDR?

I have colormunki display which is 1000 nits but these qd oleds go beyond 1000 nits in HDR.I need a new meter if I buy a TV like this?

aron7awol

26th November 2022, 17:30

That video from Vincent (from 7 months ago!) was in response to a bunch of Youtubers going crazy about the S95B while not realizing what was actually causing the differences they were seeing. Those of us who measured saw the overboosted EOTF clear as day. A firmware update gave us accurate EOTF tracking shortly thereafter, so it's no longer an issue.

That being said, Samsung's software is pretty awful, and you have to know that going in and be able and willing to work around it. It's not a problem for me, but it might be for someone else.

senzaparole

8th December 2022, 15:47

Hi guys. I have a problem. After allowing several updates I noticed that my TV no longer automatically switches to HDR mode.
I have a PC connected to LG TV. does anyone know how i can fix it?

senzaparole

11th December 2022, 22:25

I solved. It was an AMD driver update. I unistalled them and now everything works fine

Klaus1189

12th December 2022, 06:20

Could you please post the issue in the drivers thread and what you did? What version has an issue and which one fixed it?
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013)

senzaparole

13th December 2022, 23:12

Garath

30th December 2022, 01:03

Hello, I have been using my cx for two years, in pc mode, 10 bpc / rgb / full.
I am very satisfied, except for the judder.
In terms of visual quality, do I lose anything by giving up pc mode? I don't use the TV as a monitor.

Klaus1189

30th December 2022, 01:26

Judder?

Garath

30th December 2022, 02:33

Judder?

I probably used the wrong term, I don't know lol
Sometimes the video is not smooth when the camera moves in a certain way. 24p

Damien147

2nd January 2023, 21:59

Did you guys notice an overall picture quality improvement by jumping from led to oled or just in the dark scenes and blacks?

Klaus1189

2nd January 2023, 22:30

No. I have both OLED TVs and QLED TVs, which is high end lcd based with led background. Both have their pros and cons.

Klaus1189

2nd January 2023, 22:31

I probably used the wrong term, I don't know lol
Sometimes the video is not smooth when the camera moves in a certain way. 24p
Post mediainfo log of file and Screenshot of Stats. Ctrl + j

Damien147

3rd January 2023, 15:08

No. I have both OLED TVs and QLED TVs, which is high end lcd based with led background. Both have their pros and cons.

I have an entry level 4K Samsung for now with 4000:1 contrast and UHD dimming disabled(it messes picture).I have it calibrated and I am happy with the picture except on the dark scenes where things become dark grey.I am trying to find a better reason to upgrade beyond the dark scenes improvement and that's why I ask.

Klaus1189

3rd January 2023, 16:26

Which one exactly?

Asmodian

3rd January 2023, 17:54

Did you guys notice an overall picture quality improvement by jumping from led to oled or just in the dark scenes and blacks?

Colors look richer, even on the WRGB OLEDs. I think it might be the lack of a polarizing layer on top of the pixels or maybe that tiny amount of the other subpixels always bleeding through since it can never get to 0%. It might be psychovisual due to the very slight shift in the image if you move even a small amount that you get viewing an LCD.

This difference doesn't pop as much as the difference in dark scenes and black, but I always notice it on OLEDs compared to LCDs.

Klaus1189

3rd January 2023, 18:08

QLED looks very different to ordinary LCD, which looks like washed out in comparison.

Asmodian

3rd January 2023, 18:37

Yes, QLED helps this aspect a lot, but they still have some of that LCD look. The better conventional backlights on higher end LCDs help too, but it is never quite good enough.

That said, I wouldn't mind a good QLED display in a brighter room or with bias lighting. :D

Klaus1189

3rd January 2023, 18:57

I wouldn't mind a good QLED display in a brighter room or with bias lighting. :D

That's why I have next to OLEDs also high end QLEDs.

Damien147

3rd January 2023, 20:01

Which one exactly?

Samsung KU6300 (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300)

Colors look richer, even on the WRGB OLEDs. I think it might be the lack of a polarizing layer on top of the pixels or maybe that tiny amount of the other subpixels always bleeding through since it can never get to 0%. It might be psychovisual due to the very slight shift in the image if you move even a small amount that you get viewing an LCD.

This difference doesn't pop as much as the difference in dark scenes and black, but I always notice it on OLEDs compared to LCDs.

By you saying richer colors can I suppose more realistic picture?

quietvoid

3rd January 2023, 20:15

IMO it depends heavily on your environment.

I recently got a QN90B for a bright room, and it's pretty good except for viewing angles.
The contrast is alright, I don't really notice the local dimming and letterbox bars are black most of the time.
Either way, it's not used in the dark so I don't mind.

huhn

3rd January 2023, 21:26

the switch from LCD to OLED was pretty minor in general.

the thing i notice as a major difference where uniformity and zero added motion artifacts.

everything else was minor even CR doesn't jump out much as long as you are not using them next to each other.

i also notice a terrible pink tint worse than any viewing angle issue i have seen.
VRR is also pretty much broken the low brightness spikes makes it useless.

Klaus1189

3rd January 2023, 21:35

@huhn: What oled(s) do you have? LG?

huhn

3rd January 2023, 22:26

CX6 the VRR issue is well known on them.

Klaus1189

3rd January 2023, 22:30

Didn‘t know that, unfortunately.

huhn

3rd January 2023, 22:34

new one supposedly don't have a fix for that too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWwqzQ6CD2M

Damien147

4th January 2023, 16:07

Ignorance is bliss for me and many times with the help of Madvr I really enjoy the picture on my cheap calibrated VA panel.The thing is that in the future I'm gonna live in two different places depending on the season and the TV will be left to ''rot''.I just don't know exactly when and it's a pity for the TV to end like this.It's a temptation if there was a really noticeable overall picture quality improvement but only for the dark scenes it seems better to spend 2000 euro on walks and buy a new TV when I 'm gonna need a second one.
Thanks guys.

Asmodian

4th January 2023, 16:43

i also notice a terrible pink tint worse than any viewing angle issue i have seen.

This is a bad defect, weird to see LG's upgraded panel tech have this horrible pink tint off angle. It also makes it really bad for a monitor, where you sit closer, so it is easy to see.

So far, the pink tint is only an issue with that specific generation of panels, isn't it?
Edit: Actually, I think it is an issue with all their new panels. :(

huhn

4th January 2023, 20:06

yeah which is odd because i have an CX and the "EVO" are the "new" ones which are part of the 2021 series flag ship i forget the naming difference where one always had it and the other was a lottery.

the CX6 i have was released after the C1 so that also a bit different could be an evo panel not that i like that if the old ones have no tint what was the difference 50 nits? i don't even use HDR...

cesar73

8th January 2023, 11:08

Hello,

I am trying to find a good setting for madvr HDR tone mapping with pixel shader. I am using latest madvrhdrmeasure version 165.
I have a LG Oled G1 EVO screen.

Can someone with a recent LG OLED model share his madvr tone mapping settings ?

ashlar42

23rd January 2023, 23:38

I'm having a strange problem with the Prime Video app on my C1. Whenever I try to access the subtitles menu, from a video playing, the app closes down. Thus, I cannot change language or style for subs.

Already tried to uninstall, turn off tv (power cord detached for several minute), turning it back on and reinstalling the app. No results.

I'm on software version 03.34.55.

Magik Mark

25th January 2023, 11:47

Guys

Does the LHR version of GPU works well?

huhn

26th January 2023, 18:57

last time i checked madVR doesn't have a crypto miner embedded so yes.

SamuriHL

26th January 2023, 19:07

last time i checked madVR doesn't have a crypto miner embedded so yes.

Maybe he should so we can get some new features. :D joking...mostly.

ashlar42

3rd February 2023, 02:27

huhn

3rd February 2023, 08:49

a normal cable can not blend a frame the AVR has to do that and is ignoring passthrough.

Klaus1189

6th February 2023, 19:24

I never had a DENON AVR, but according to manual:
https://assets.denon.com/DocumentMaster/ENG/AVC-X3800HE2EA_ENG_PDF_IM.pdf

"pass through" is not what you want is this issue, you want "bypass"

Page 167: HDMI Pass Through
Selects how this unit will transmit HDMI signals to the HDMI output in standby power mode.

On: Transmits the selected HDMI input through this unit’s HDMI output when this unit is in standby power mode.

Off (Default): No HDMI signals are transmitted through
this unit’s HDMI output in standby power mode.

Page 172: Video Mode
Configure the video processing method to match the type of video content.
Auto (Default): Process video automatically based on
the HDMI content information.

Game: Always process video for game content. Minimize the video delay when the video is delayed compared to the button
operations on the controller of the game console.

Movie: Perform image processing that is suitable for contents other than games.

Bypass: Remove all video processing from the HDMI video path.

ashlar42

1st March 2023, 12:46

I am having a strange problem with a Denon X3800H receiver. I connect a PC (Ultra High Speed HDMI certified cable, tried two different ones) to the receiver, the receiver to my LG C1 OLED TV with another HDMI cable (high quality as well). When I play video, it's like the picture has a slightly delayed ghost to it. If I connect the PC directly to the TV, the picture is perfect. HDMI is set as passthrough on the receiver but it makes no difference. Video card is a Nvidia RTX 3070.

Picture with "ghosting" through the receiver:

https://i.postimg.cc/YLNvL9TM/PXL-20230203-012135452.jpg (https://postimg.cc/YLNvL9TM)

Perfect picture straight to the TV:

https://i.postimg.cc/vgF2tY0c/PXL-20230203-013611120.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vgF2tY0c)

(sorry for not managing to shoot the same exact frame but the difference is quite visibile anyway)

As mentioned I have tried with different cables already. All perfect straight to the TV, all with ghosting through the receiver.
Don't know how to solve this but I now know what actually happens. madVR switches to 23.976 (or 24.000, I've seen this behavior on both refreshes), the TV (HDMI hidden menu, green button pushed 8 times) briefly locks to a 120Hz signal, then blanks, then picture comes up. madVR states that the display is at 23.976Hz but the TV is instead still outputting 120Hz (HDMI hidden menu, etc.).

I fear this could only be solved through a Dr. HDMI (https://hdfury.com/product/dr-hdmi-8k/) or something similar...