MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[huhn]

my guess would be ALLM.

try the HDMI content type and change to something you prefer.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Any idea as of why my HTPC makes the 77C1 gray out Noise Reduction, MPEG Noise Reduction, Smooth Gradation, Cinema Screen and TruMotion? This on all video modes, apparently (tried Standard and ISF ones)
PC uses an Nvidia RTX 3070, Windows 10 x64 1809, latest drivers (updated today), certified HDMI 2.1 cable. Tried setting it up as PC input and regular one, no change.

Just to check - is your GPU set at 60 or 120 hz?

My LG is also hdmi 2.1, so will do 120 hz, but I leave it set at 60 (as I use 23,24, 25hz etc), so just a guess but 120 hz might force PC mode (which would actually make sense)....just a thought.

[ashlar42]

GPU is set at 60Hz. It was the same when set at 120Hz. As I wrote, I had it set up as both PC and another type (did not check what but I supposed it’s only PC type that could make a difference). I’ll try other types...

Edit: it was GSYNC.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Glad you got to the bottom of it.

[ashlar42]

Glad you got to the bottom of it.
Yeah, if I have to be honest, I’m absolutely speechless at how little forethought went into helping customers understand what the TV does in any given situation.

For instance, Cinema Screen is greyed out no matter what.
Also, on Nvidia’s control panel there is now a setting that you use to “tell” the screen what kind of content you are sending. If you select games, all clarity options are greyed out. If you select movies, they are accessible and Cinema Screen is greyed out (in active position, don’t know if that means it will be always on, will need to check further).

All in all, such opacity in settings.... bleah.

[oldpainlesskodi]

yeah, I hear you...took me some time to figure out what was going on lol.

[ashlar42]

madVR is quite out of date as it comes to OS HDR integration at this point. Other video renderers in other players manage the transition into HDR and back out perfectly.I know of Kodi. What are the other renderers/players? Under Windows 10?

We could ask madshi to fix this. It seems relevant enough, it’s not a minor quibble from a couple of users...

[SamuriHL]

You could ask madshi, but, the reality is he's focused on improving the Envy. The only changes to madvr are to improve HDR tone mapping. So it's not likely to get fixed any time soon.

[nevcairiel]

Its really a shame how madVR has been left hanging there. It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't happen in that time of transition for HDR, and its not in a place to catch up right now. That, and that its basically DX9 on the inside makes it shows its age.
Reliable HDR would be a big gain, maybe something needs to be done about that.

[SamuriHL]

maybe something needs to be done about that.

Yes.....something. :D That would be very nice indeed!

[huhn]

mpcVR is in a good state.
adding some proper scaler and 3D LUT support and is not far of madVR and also be a head of madVR in other places.

there HDR support is working just fine no getting out of fullscreen and HDR breaks like with AMD.

[oldpainlesskodi]

I've no issues with dsplayer+madvr+amd+hdr, what issues are you/were having?

[chros]

Its really a shame how madVR has been left hanging there.
This...

[kostik]

Madshi: "Haven't had a chance to implement the curves from quietvoid and Fer15 yet. However, let's start by fixing whatever needs fixing first. This new build should fix the DVD crash, and it adds an option to enable/disable brightness equalization:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure133.zip
"

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/page-658

[quietvoid]

beta 134 with brightness equalization switch requires changing DTN to preference again.
I had it at 60 previously but it's too bright for me without brightness equalization, so I'm now at DTN 70.

[SamuriHL]

I'm hoping we see a 135 with your curves built in. That would be ideal. I just took a quick look at 134 and it's looking really good. Will definitely be the build I use until we get something better.

[aron7awol]

beta 134 with brightness equalization switch requires changing DTN to preference again.
I had it at 60 previously but it's too bright for me without brightness equalization, so I'm now at DTN 70.
Do you feel like this is now perfectly stable or are there still brightness pumping issues from time to time? In any case, I'm interesting in trying the settings you are using as your daily driver. Would you share?

[quietvoid]

I haven't really watched much so I can't say for sure.
I think in most titles you wouldn't have an issue because they're usually not over 1500 nits.

This is what I have for settings now: https://postimg.cc/ZC5W2qPf
I can't use custom curves because I get flashes (might be caused by having FastBlur enabled for performance).
But steepness 600 is very similar for everything under 10000 nits.

[Magik Mark]

Thanks Quietvoid for the new setting

[SamuriHL]

I've not seen any flashes with the curves. I'll be watching a movie soon with 134 and your curves so I'll keep an eye out for it.

[kostik]

I haven't really watched much so I can't say for sure.
I think in most titles you wouldn't have an issue because they're usually not over 1500 nits.

This is what I have for settings now: https://postimg.cc/ZC5W2qPf
I can't use custom curves because I get flashes (might be caused by having FastBlur enabled for performance).
But steepness 600 is very similar for everything under 10000 nits.

Those curves also fit LG OLED CX? it will help to change the DPL to my measured peak brightness?

Its been long since I used madVR for HDR movies, I just watch via streaming from my PC because I am not sure if my HDR calibration can get ruined by madVR settings even when just outputting HDR using 'passthrough' option in MadVR , let alone using curves and other new DTM madVR settings. What do you think?

[SamuriHL]

You can't "mess up your HDR calibration" using madvr. It doesn't change anything on the TV. Yes, you should let madvr know your measured peak brightness and let it tone map to that.

madshi was mentioning something about being able to calibrate newer LG's (I'm guessing the C1 but I don't know for sure as I'm still on my C8) to use a clipping tone mapping calibration. That would absolutely rock since below the clipping point it wouldn't touch anything so that you'd be able to use JUST madvr tone mapping. I don't know how this works or how you can calibrate it like that. I guess Stacey Spears was experimenting with it. For the C8 we chose 870 nits after a ton of experimentation to see what curve the TV chooses. For your CX I just don't know enough to be able to help you configure it best for madvr. Given that the tone mapping can be configured I would say you have more options than we do. Maybe someone with a CX can chime in here.

But in any case, do feel safe knowing you can experiment in madvr and not mess anything up.

[chros]

This is what I have for settings now: https://postimg.cc/ZC5W2qPf
I can't use custom curves because I get flashes (might be caused by having FastBlur enabled for performance).
But steepness 600 is very similar for everything under 10000 nits.
Cheers, so I have set it up for the first time to use Your curves :) I'll report back in couple of days how it behaves.
Here's my settings for HDR output with b134 (https://imgbox.com/ypLdESTJ#).

I don't see any flashes for now with your curves (FastBlur enabled here as well), maybe higher nits contents are affected?

Those curves also fit LG OLED CX? it will help to change the DPL to my measured peak brightness?
... let alone using curves and other new DTM madVR settings. What do you think?
Yes, can be helpful for high nits content (> 1500?).
With curves, set DPL to 870 before importing, then import the curves and apply, then set back your DPL to a lower value. (I use 800 with a B8 as you can see).

madshi was mentioning something about being able to calibrate newer LG's (I'm guessing the C1 but I don't know for sure as I'm still on my C8) to use a clipping tone mapping calibration. That would absolutely rock since below the clipping point it wouldn't touch anything so that you'd be able to use JUST madvr tone mapping. I don't know how this works
I'm not aware of any settings like this (or just forget it) beside of HGIG (I think this one only available in game mode), or did they add a hidden setting for it recently?

or how you can calibrate it like that.
Now that's the interesting part :) I didn't want to reply there to this, because it would have opened up a whole new wormhole :)
Anyways, with this 3dlut enabled hdr output, madvr opened up a bunch of new possibilities. We all know that the panels are really unstable in hdr mode, so no one even tried (at least not seriously) to create a 3dlut for HDR, they just measure couple of colors and generate the 3dlut.
Let alone that LG has 1dlut and 3dlut in them, so I don't even understand what Stacy wants to experiment with: you would have to remove the 3dlut in the TV (1dlut can remain in place) and try to create one for madvr hdr output.
(But with recent nvidia drivers I guess even madTPG is screwed ...)

[kostik]

You can't "mess up your HDR calibration" using madvr. It doesn't change anything on the TV. Yes, you should let madvr know your measured peak brightness and let it tone map to that.

madshi was mentioning something about being able to calibrate newer LG's (I'm guessing the C1 but I don't know for sure as I'm still on my C8) to use a clipping tone mapping calibration. That would absolutely rock since below the clipping point it wouldn't touch anything so that you'd be able to use JUST madvr tone mapping. I don't know how this works or how you can calibrate it like that. .

I think Stacy Spears wants to do an experiment with Roll-Off points set to 100% and see how it works with madVR TM ( possible with Device Control or Calman on C9 and newer models) :

https://imgur.com/9P1myeH.jpeg

[SamuriHL]

I'm not aware of any settings like this (or just forget it) beside of HGIG (I think this one only available in game mode), or did they add a hidden setting for it recently?


Apparently what kostik is saying. I don't know any details. Only that madshi mentioned it in the AVS thread when he released 133 and everyone discovered that it completely borked HDR output.



Now that's the interesting part :) I didn't want to reply there to this, because it would have opened up a whole new wormhole :)
Anyways, with this 3dlut enabled hdr output, madvr opened up a bunch of new possibilities. We all know that the panels are really unstable in hdr mode, so no one even tried (at least not seriously) to create a 3dlut for HDR, they just measure couple of colors and generate the 3dlut.
Let alone that LG has 1dlut and 3dlut in them, so I don't even understand what Stacy wants to experiment with: you would have to remove the 3dlut in the TV (1dlut can remain in place) and try to create one for madvr hdr output.
(But with recent nvidia drivers I guess even madTPG is screwed ...)

Yea I don't fully understand either. I was going to start playing with the idea of creating a 3DLUT in madvr for HDR to see what that looks like...just for fun. I doubt it'll be useful for us.

I think Stacy Spears wants to do an experiment with Roll-Off points set to 100% and see how it works with madVR TM ( possible with Device Control or Calman on C9 and newer models) :

https://imgur.com/9P1myeH.jpeg

Right so if you set the roll off higher than what madvr tone maps to, then in theory you have "pure" tone mapping with madvr as the tv wouldn't touch anything below the rolloff point. That's the theory. I'm curious how that plays out.

[quietvoid]

I don't see any flashes for now with your curves (FastBlur enabled here as well), maybe higher nits contents are affected?

Yes it's only for anything over DPL, it's pretty random for me though.

[SamuriHL]

I didn't see any last night but I only watched one movie and as we know I had a hard system lock in the middle of it so that really doesn't count for much. LOL

[chros]

Yes it's only for anything over DPL, it's pretty random for me though.
Cheers, maybe with the next build, I went back to b113 once more... due to neverending bugs...

[SamuriHL]

I'm trying to profile my HDR mode now. I.....don't think this is going to go very well. LOL! HDR is a mess on these screens. Which is what I've been told repeatedly. We'll see. I'm going to upload the 3DLUT to madvr's rec.2020 slot when I'm done and take a look. I don't know how long this will take though, and I may fall asleep before I can test it.

[SamuriHL]

That was a complete and total waste of my time. Won't be messing with this again. I created a 3DLUT based on profiling in HDR. When I select that LUT in the tonemap HDR with the 3DLUT option, it's outputting SDR. ummmmm, NO! Plus the fact that these panels DO NOT PROFILE PROPERLY FOR HDR. Period. There's no getting around that fact. I'm HIGHLY aggravated I went down this path and wasted 2 hours for nothing.

[JaylumX]

That was a complete and total waste of my time. Won't be messing with this again. I created a 3DLUT based on profiling in HDR. When I select that LUT in the tonemap HDR with the 3DLUT option, it's outputting SDR. ummmmm, NO! Plus the fact that these panels DO NOT PROFILE PROPERLY FOR HDR. Period. There's no getting around that fact. I'm HIGHLY aggravated I went down this path and wasted 2 hours for nothing.

Have you tried calibrating (or generating) a 3DLUT in your display's brightest SDR mode and then loading it up in MadVR's Calibration menu as rec 2020 and then use tone map HDR using pixel shaders in the HDR menu (Do not use tone map HDR using external 3DLUT). That way it applies the 3DLUT form the rec 2020 part to the HDR image. This is on using MadVR's latest build - v134. The result, at least on my monitor is stunning. I just watch John Wick Chapter 2 and it was like watching a new movie. It looked good before but with the 3DLUT loaded, it is on a different level. I can't go back now.

You can also calibrate separately for SDR using rec 709 so that the SDR and HDR have separate 3DLUTS configurations.

[SamuriHL]

My c8 gets 400 nits max in sdr mode and that really pisses it off. It's a far cry from the 800 or so nits we get with hdr mode. My hope was that it'd tone mapping to hdr but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Edit... wait I re read what you posted and I think I somewhat understand now. You're saying under the display is calibrated settings rather than the hdr settings to load a rec2020 sdr 3dlut and then when hdr is displayed in bt2020 the 3dlut will be applied. Hmm that's interesting.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[JaylumX]

My c8 gets 400 nits max in sdr mode and that really pisses it off. It's a far cry from the 800 or so nits we get with hdr mode. My hope was that it'd tone mapping to hdr but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Edit... wait I re read what you posted and I think I somewhat understand now. You're saying under the display is calibrated settings rather than the hdr settings to load a rec2020 sdr 3dlut and then when hdr is displayed in bt2020 the 3dlut will be applied. Hmm that's interesting.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

That is correct.

[SamuriHL]

I'll try it sometime this week when I get a chance.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[quietvoid]

In SDR that would imply getting BT2020 to DCI-P3 properly rendered on the display (in SDR) though, no?
I'm not sure if Native color would do that.

I just have a calibrated 1D LUT and an absolute colorimetric BT2020 to DCI-P3 3D LUT generated with DisplayCal, both uploaded to the TV.
Both contrast and colors look a lot better than factory for me.

Only issue is that for some reason black bars are randomly grey during playback.
Full field black isn't so I have no idea why that happens :(

[SamuriHL]

I have my sdr mode on the c8 calibrated to both rec709 and dci-p3 (using the rec2020 lut slot). So that's not an issue. The issue is that when playing hdr it doesn't use that rec2020 lut slot obviously. But if I can generate a madvr rec2020 lut and have it get used in hdr that would be wildly amazing I think. Not something I had even considered previously.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[ashlar42]

Anybody with some guidelines for creating custom resolutions through CRU with LG OLEDs (CX or C1 should be identical, both 40Gbps HDMI 2.1)?

By opening CRU I see no trace of 2160p23 and 2160p59 resolutions, only 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60 (plus 100 and 120). But they are selectable from Windows and madVR and Kodi switch to them.


https://i.imgur.com/sPuJvxo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/prouCFJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L6PFjeA.jpg

madVR sees the 23Hz resolution

https://i.imgur.com/RimQetP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/giLp32x.jpg

[VBB]

What are you trying to accomplish? Better than one frame drop/repeat per hour?

[ashlar42]

What are you trying to accomplish? Better than one frame drop/repeat per hour?Yes. Current timings provide one frame drop every 44.40 minutes.

[VBB]

Forgot which card you have, but most of us haven't bothered with custom modes since Nvidia adjusted their drivers a year and a half ago or so. Timings went from one drop/repeat every four minutes to a little over an hour.

[ashlar42]

Forgot which card you have, but most of us haven't bothered with custom modes since Nvidia adjusted their drivers a year and a half ago or so. Timings went from one drop/repeat every four minutes to a little over an hour.
RTX 3070. Is the interface for custom resolutions finally usable? I remember all sorts of problems in the past, which is why I went with CRU years ago.

[VBB]

The built-in madVR one should work, but like I said, many haven't bothered, because 1h5m is good enough. I've never used CRU. Let us know how it goes.

[chros]

I think Stacy Spears wants to do an experiment with Roll-Off points set to 100% and see how it works with madVR TM

Right so if you set the roll off higher than what madvr tone maps to, then in theory you have "pure" tone mapping with madvr as the tv wouldn't touch anything below the rolloff point. That's the theory. I'm curious how that plays out.
Oh, I see, yes, that can be the one. Although I haven't seen this in action, but I doubt there's any (huge?) visible gain doing this (unlike with "proper" LUTs for HDR10).

I just have a calibrated 1D LUT and an absolute colorimetric BT2020 to DCI-P3 3D LUT generated with DisplayCal, both uploaded to the TV.
Both contrast and colors look a lot better than factory for me.

Only issue is that for some reason black bars are randomly grey during playback.
Full field black isn't so I have no idea why that happens :(
I guess under randomly you mean with certain files and not during playback of a given file, right? If so, are you sure that those files are properly encoded/flagged?
As I said previously, I don't have this issue at all, but there are wrong files, so for those I have to adjust "source level" in madvr.

Have you tried calibrating (or generating) a 3DLUT in your display's brightest SDR mode and then loading it up in MadVR's Calibration menu as rec 2020 and then use tone map HDR using pixel shaders in the HDR menu (Do not use tone map HDR using external 3DLUT). That way it applies the 3DLUT form the rec 2020 part to the HDR image.
...
The result, at least on my monitor is stunning.

My c8 gets 400 nits max in sdr mode ...
Edit... wait I re read what you posted and I think I somewhat understand now. You're saying under the display is calibrated settings rather than the hdr settings to load a rec2020 sdr 3dlut and then when hdr is displayed in bt2020 the 3dlut will be applied. Hmm that's interesting.

I have my sdr mode on the c8 calibrated to both rec709 and dci-p3 (using the rec2020 lut slot). So that's not an issue. The issue is that when playing hdr it doesn't use that rec2020 lut slot obviously. But if I can generate a madvr rec2020 lut and have it get used in hdr that would be wildly amazing I think. Not something I had even considered previously.
This is way more complicated topic, I highly doubt that creating an SDR 3DLUT will be "accurate" for HDR in madvr.
Ask madsh's stake on this topic, but probably he didn't even think about this (just enabled it).

The problems are that:
- SDR mode on WOLEDs are different than HDR modes in terms of color accuracy (they drive the panel difefrently)
- in the processing chain of our LG TVs, they apply the built-in 1d/3dluts at the end of the chain, targeting gamma space 1d/3dluts
- with hdr output, madvr works in PQ space (not gamma space) -> so I guess a gamma sdr 3dlut won't be good in madvr for hdr10 content

If the above is true, I'm not even sure we can create a PQ 3dlut with DisplayCal for "normal" 3dlut slots.

But since we have this option, we can ask madshi, again, to try to disable the bt2020 flag with hdr output: this way the TV would only use it's native gamut and madvr could do the heavy lifting.

[chros]

RTX 3070. Is the interface for custom resolutions finally usable? I remember all sorts of problems in the past, which is why I went with CRU years ago.
I don't know whether it's usable now (depends on the driver/OS), but you can try my setting (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998), maybe it will also work for you with new driver/OS/card (your original EDID values match mine).

[quietvoid]

I guess under randomly you mean with certain files and not during playback of a given file, right? If so, are you sure that those files are properly encoded/flagged?
As I said previously, I don't have this issue at all, but there are wrong files, so for those I have to adjust "source level" in madvr.

No, randomly in playback for any HDR10 video. It happens for HLG too. The bars would just become grey and black again after a bit, or sometimes never.
I've read some posts about "flickering black/grey" on AVS but I think it was more specific to Dolby Vision.

Levels are fine. I probably should factory reset and just upload the LUTs to see if it still happens.
Otherwise the only other thing is if I messed up anything in the service menu. I think I disabled ASBL and something else.

[SamuriHL]

Oh, I see, yes, that can be the one. Although I haven't seen this in action, but I doubt there's any (huge?) visible gain doing this (unlike with "proper" LUTs for HDR10).


Yea, I think that's why Stacey wants to experiment with it. It's an intriguing idea.

This is way more complicated topic, I highly doubt that creating an SDR 3DLUT will be "accurate" for HDR in madvr.
Ask madsh's stake on this topic, but probably he didn't even think about this (just enabled it).

The problems are that:
- SDR mode on WOLEDs are different than HDR modes in terms of color accuracy (they drive the panel difefrently)
- in the processing chain of our LG TVs, they apply the built-in 1d/3dluts at the end of the chain, targeting gamma space 1d/3dluts
- with hdr output, madvr works in PQ space (not gamma space) -> so I guess a gamma sdr 3dlut won't be good in madvr for hdr10 content

If the above is true, I'm not even sure we can create a PQ 3dlut with DisplayCal for "normal" 3dlut slots.

But since we have this option, we can ask madshi, again, to try to disable the bt2020 flag with hdr output: this way the TV would only use it's native gamut and madvr could do the heavy lifting.

I have to see what I can create with ColourSpace. I MIGHT be able to force it to create a PQ 3dlut that I can export and pull into madvr in the sdr rec.2020 slot. Obviously I'd need to create profiles to make sure it's not used in sdr content, but this at least opens up possibilities. Maybe. I'm not sure your idea for stripping the bt2020 flag for HDR will work. I can certainly try it myself and see what it'd do. I have the ability to strip it already. We'll see how much playing around I get to do tonight.

[ashlar42]

The built-in madVR one should work, but like I said, many haven't bothered, because 1h5m is good enough. I've never used CRU. Let us know how it goes.
Nope, it doesn't. But I can do it by "hand". Problem is using the right tool. And currently I don't know how to correctly approach CRU with this new panel. I have written in the support forum, we'll see.

I don't know whether it's usable now (depends on the driver/OS), but you can try my setting (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998), maybe it will also work for you with new driver/OS/card (your original EDID values match mine).
This is what I was planning to do, starting from there and calculating the offset according to my sync values. I will update if I come to something. Thanks!

EDIT: Nvidia control panel did not let me add a custom 2160p23 resolution. CRU... I tried adding a resolution with correctly calculated values, but madVR reports a very different refresh rate compared to the one calculated.

Aiming for 23.976399 (calculated with Pixel Clock Calculator, on monitortests.com), I got 23.977xxx. I'm probably too old for this s$£%, but I'm so fed up with custom resolutions being some sort of black magic ritual. And no, I don't like three repeated frames in a 2h30m movie.

[chros]

I'm not sure your idea for stripping the bt2020 flag for HDR will work. I can certainly try it myself and see what it'd do. I have the ability to strip it already. We'll see how much playing around I get to do tonight.
Really?! :) Then please can you check it? Take a look whether LG still reports the bt.2020 flag at the top of the info panel with HDR10.

[SamuriHL]

I can but it's not going to be today. I had a major work crisis today and just finished so it's going to definitely be tomorrow before I touch anything. But yea, I can remove the bt.2020 flag with the Integral 2 and see what it does. At least I think I can. I'll find out tomorrow.

[SamuriHL]

Ok, so I was able to give that a quick test. I can indeed strip the bt.2020 flag out of the HDR signal. TV reports HDR and enables HDR mode but does NOT report bt.2020. So that's fun. :D It's a real pain in the ass to set up on the Integral 2, too, however. Nonetheless it does seem to do what you want.