MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[chros]

Asmodian, would you mind testing the cyan issue in hdr10 on your CX? If you have netflix I can upload a hdr10 sample that you can compare to DV and try to switch gamut to DCI-P3 to see if the issue is still present.

[Asmodian]

I do have Netflix and am happy to run some tests.

[chros]

Sorry for the late reply, Asmodian, I was buried ... :)
So, here is a 1 minute sample (https://mega.nz/file/LklVhKiR#594kNX9hDVpIgCBFExJKFTTnKX3nNBOQCPYgyOsBonE) of The Witcher S01E04 in HDR10 from around 53:20. So, what we want to test is the cyan error (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1890535#post1890535) that LG sometimes produce with HDR10 content using BT.2020 colorspace. @j82k came up with the idea that this might be solved by forcing the display into DCI-P3 (I even asked madshi to implement this in madvr half a year ago or so :) ).
Unfortunately only the CX series has this new option, so I can't try this out by myself.

- playback the sample in HDR10, take a look at the cyan-ish light through the window at the back of the small chamber where 2 of them are talking
- pause the playback, then look at the same scene on Netflix using DV: this is how it should look like (switch between the two source to notice the difference, if it's not that visible at first)
- if you also see difference then: switch the gamut mode of your CX to DCI-P3 with the HDR10 sample to see whether it solves this issue

Cheers

[razierklinge]

Sorry for the late reply, Asmodian, I was buried ... :)
So, here is a 1 minute sample (https://mega.nz/file/LklVhKiR#594kNX9hDVpIgCBFExJKFTTnKX3nNBOQCPYgyOsBonE) of The Witcher S01E04 in HDR10 from around 53:20. So, what we want to test is the cyan error (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1890535#post1890535) that LG sometimes produce with HDR10 content using BT.2020 colorspace. @j82k came up with the idea that this might be solved by forcing the display into DCI-P3 (I even asked madshi to implement this in madvr half a year ago or so :) ).
Unfortunately only the CX series has this new option, so I can't try this out by myself.

- playback the sample in HDR10, take a look at the cyan-ish light through the window at the back of the small chamber where 2 of them are talking
- pause the playback, then look at the same scene on Netflix using DV: this is how it should look like (switch between the two source to notice the difference, if it's not that visible at first)
- if you also see difference then: switch the gamut mode of your CX to DCI-P3 with the HDR10 sample to see whether it solves this issue

Cheers

I've been trying to track down the source of an issue I'm seeing in HDR content on my LG C8 and it might have to do with the cyan error you're referring to. When I first got my C8 I didn't have much HDR content to watch, aside from Netflix, so I didn't notice any issues. Now that I have a sizeable UHD Bluray collection, I see a lot of color problems.

In Iron Man 3 around 39:33 when he's flying through the water there are reddish and cyanish lines that are outlining him: https://i.imgur.com/WqEqtme.jpg

If I go into the SM WB menu they go away: https://i.imgur.com/D0OFyUI.jpg

Same scene on Disney+ with Dolby Vision: https://i.imgur.com/YfDui67.jpg

My phone overexposed the Disney+ picture a bit, but the weird colors were definitely not there.

So then I found Mehanik's HDR10 patterns and when I looked at the linearization patterns the issue was clearly visible.

This first image is just grayscale, but you can see a strange darker band around the edge: https://i.imgur.com/qml5srV.jpg

Now on the blue linearization pattern you can see the reddish/cyan colors where that darker band is on the grayscale pattern: https://i.imgur.com/hKIfrNQ.jpg

I've been pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to fix this problem, but at this point I feel like it's just an issue with the TV itself. I've factory reset it to make sure none of my 3DLUT's were causing a problem. I've looked at these scenes with madVR as well as through the USB on the TV itself, and the problem is always there. Plus, I trust that the HDR10 patterns are good quality and don't have issues. The last thing I was thinking about doing was buying some Dolby Vision test patterns from https://www.diversifiedvideosolutions.com/dolby_vision.html, just so I can look at the linearization pattern and verify it looks okay and confirm I'm not crazy. But paying $35 just to know that my TV has a problem I can't fix is a bit annoying.

If you happen to have the Iron Man 3 UHD Bluray, could you check that scene on your TV? I've also noticed similar issues in Guardians of the Galaxy at 3:33 around the bright light coming down from the space ship.

[quietvoid]

That looks somewhat like banding I've noticed when using madVR as well.
Did you try using a built in app or external device (not HTPC) with the same file?

[razierklinge]

That looks somewhat like banding I've noticed when using madVR as well.
Did you try using a built in app or external device (not HTPC) with the same file?

Yup, all of this was done using the built in app on the C8 and the issues were still there. I was really hoping it was a file or madvr issue, but since the built in app also shows the problem I feel like it has to be the tv itself.

[chros]

When I first got my C8 I didn't have much HDR content to watch, aside from Netflix
Netflix has DV and there's no issue with DV on LG. HDR10 uses LG's own implementation, probably that's the cause.

If I go into the SM WB menu they go away: https://i.imgur.com/D0OFyUI.jpg
That's an interesting finding. There's a slight difference here, but not whole lot.

So then I found Mehanik's HDR10 patterns and when I looked at the linearization patterns the issue was clearly visible.
This first image is just grayscale, but you can see a strange darker band around the edge: https://i.imgur.com/qml5srV.jpg
Now on the blue linearization pattern you can see the reddish/cyan colors where that darker band is on the grayscale pattern: https://i.imgur.com/hKIfrNQ.jpg
These are really good patterns in "04. Colors\03. Linearization": cyan and blue are really problematic, the other colors are not that bad even with Full RGB 12bit output.

since the built in app also shows the problem I feel like it has to be the tv itself.
Yes, that's LG's BT.2020 gamut mapping, we bet. Interestingly it doesn't happen all the time, it's like when colors are near gamut limit or out of gamut.

If you happen to have the Iron Man 3 UHD Bluray, could you check that scene on your TV?
Unfortunately I don't have it, but if you upload a sample (cut out by mkvtoolnix) of it we can check it.
But the better would be if you can find a title with DV (you can cut out a sample of the whole UHDBD with CloneBD) because at that time we can clearly compare the HDR10 vs DV. (I tried it with IT Chapter 2 sample (https://mega.nz/folder/r9N0VK5R#WnnyYsGqwa7M-v1jckw6iQ/file/Ol0USCYI), but that's not the best example :) )
Also you can check the sample I uploaded previously if you also have Netflix.

[razierklinge]

Netflix has DV and there's no issue with DV on LG. HDR10 uses LG's own implementation, probably that's the cause.


That's an interesting finding. There's a slight difference here, but not whole lot.


These are really good patterns in "04. Colors\03. Linearization": cyan and blue are really problematic, the other colors are not that bad even with Full RGB 12bit output.


Yes, that's LG's BT.2020 gamut mapping, we bet. Interestingly it doesn't happen all the time, it's like when colors are near gamut limit or out of gamut.


Unfortunately I don't have it, but if you upload a sample (cut out by mkvtoolnix) of it we can check it.
But the better would be if you can find a title with DV (you can cut out a sample of the whole UHDBD with CloneBD) because at that time we can clearly compare the HDR10 vs DV. (I tried it with IT Chapter 2 sample (https://mega.nz/folder/r9N0VK5R#WnnyYsGqwa7M-v1jckw6iQ/file/Ol0USCYI), but that's not the best example :) )
Also you can check the sample I uploaded previously if you also have Netflix.

I cut out the section in Iron Man 3 using mkvtoolnix: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xvtw9da8zpvc82/IronMan3_UHD_red_cyan_outline_39m_30s.mkv?dl=0

The cyan and blue linearization patterns are definitely the worst on my TV, but the problem is noticeable on all colors.

And you're right, it doesn't seem to happen all the time, and some movies are just worse than others. When I start watching a movie I can usually tell immediately whether there are issues once I see how the skintones look. I'll check out the scene you posted from The Witcher later today.

I'll also see if I can find a DV title that can be compared with.

[Ghitulescu]

f one needs to "reset" the TV in order to get good colours, then the firmware is defective somehow.

Just as a side note - to get the perfect colours one does not need to reset (on good TVs this does nothing to colours, unless specifically told so) but one needs calibration - depending on TV this calibration can be lost by resseting it to defaults (some TVs reset only the user settings - saturation, luminosity etc. while others reset also the calibration data).

Read the manual, or ask the TV calibration service for details.

PS: if it has magic eye or any other ambient optimisation feature - turn them off.

[quietvoid]

If anyone's interested I took some HDR tonemapped pics of the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark, because Dolby Vision is getting popular and I wanted to compare with the latest madVR beta.
Taken with Pixel 4a, locked exposure to retain highlights, so please disregard crushed blacks as well as different crops (no tripod..).

https://mega.nz/file/IY8XDaZb#s-oxRKnTdRwAqB-5ghfadZcir2JII_nil1AkMpdEAM4

One thing I noticed is that Dolby Vision has brighter highlights in some scenes, but desaturates more in others.

[kostik]

I tested the Iron Man scene you put here on my 65CX and I don't see reddish and cyanish lines that are outlining him as shown in the picture. I did SM WB calibration and 2pt HDR calibration only (as suggested on AVSForum)

[chros]

I do see the issues present on my B8. But it's not the best example either, content is moving really fast. We need to find a better scene, preferably in DV.
Would you mind testing the above sample (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1925528#post1925528) on your CX? I guess Asmodan didn't have time so far.

[chros]

If anyone's interested I took some HDR tonemapped pics of the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark, because Dolby Vision is getting popular and I wanted to compare with the latest madVR beta.
...
One thing I noticed is that Dolby Vision has brighter highlights in some scenes, but desaturates more in others.
Interesting comparison, thanks. madvr images are darker, probably due to the 100 setting of dynamic target. If you lower it to 55, the result will be brighter.
That SM sample is really unique with its 10000 (!) metadata for both maxCLL and mastering display peak (I haven't seen real content like this yet).

And comparing HDR is really hard (even impossible?) due to different algos do different things with almost every different scenes :) For example I noticed (by switching over passthrough and madvr DTM) that with my setting (in my signature) most of the time madvr DTM results in slightly brighter image, but sometimes it's darker than the passthrough counterpart :)

And about DV: I started (again) experimenting with the Oppo's SDR2DV feature (in non-PC mode) vs madvr + gamma 2.4 3dlut + pc mode.
So far I only tested couple of scenes with 4k SDR content, but the result is shocking (I haven't seen anything outstanding yet): DV converted SDR images look way better than "normal" SDR even in PC mode! The cause probably is the increased brightness range that results in higher contrast.

I also tried to compare the B8 built-in HDR Effect preset (only available in non-PC mode) with them: it has 3 sub-presets (Light/Med/High), but even with Light setting the image gets way more brighter than the converted DV version.
The interesting part about it is that (obviously) it uses the madvr 3dlut. So, I quickly generated a darker (gamma 2.6) version of 3dlut. Now the image is getting closer to the DV-converted version (even bright objects (lights, etc) got colder as they should), but the overall image is still way warmer.

[quietvoid]

Interesting comparison, thanks. madvr images are darker, probably due to the 100 setting of dynamic target. If you lower it to 55, the result will be brighter.
I do really like the more contrast-y darker look, but I might lower it a bit for it to look more "natural".
Either way it really only affects demo-like situations with very high brightness. :)

[kostik]

I do see the issues present on my B8. But it's not the best example either, content is moving really fast. We need to find a better scene, preferably in DV.
Would you mind testing the above sample (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1925528#post1925528) on your CX? I guess Asmodan didn't have time so far.

Looks perfectly fine on my CX. I play it via LG's app streaming from my pc. Smooth cyan with 0 banding, nothing near the pics from lion king .

[razierklinge]

I tested the Iron Man scene you put here on my 65CX and I don't see reddish and cyanish lines that are outlining him as shown in the picture. I did SM WB calibration and 2pt HDR calibration only (as suggested on AVSForum)

Thanks so much for testing it. It's really nice to hear that it's possible for that scene to look fine. But at the same time...now I feel like I need to get a new TV lol. Really wish I was able to fix this problem on my C8. Tried doing 2pt calibration in HDR also and it didn't help at all.

I do see the issues present on my B8. But it's not the best example either, content is moving really fast. We need to find a better scene, preferably in DV.
Would you mind testing the above sample (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1925528#post1925528) on your CX? I guess Asmodan didn't have time so far.

Are the issues on your B8 as intense as what I'm getting on my C8? It is a really fast scene, but so far it's the most intense error I've seen on my TV. I also checked out The Witcher scene and I swapped back and forth between the HDR clip and DV on Netflix and the light from the window in HDR was definitely more cyan than DV.

[kostik]

Thanks so much for testing it. It's really nice to hear that it's possible for that scene to look fine. But at the same time...now I feel like I need to get a new TV lol. Really wish I was able to fix this problem on my C8. Tried doing 2pt calibration in HDR also and it didn't help at all.



Are the issues on your B8 as intense as what I'm getting on my C8? It is a really fast scene, but so far it's the most intense error I've seen on my TV. I also checked out The Witcher scene and I swapped back and forth between the HDR clip and DV on Netflix and the light from the window in HDR was definitely more cyan than DV.

I also have a C8 . I will check later and see because I really don't remember we had this issue. I used C8 for 2 years. Chrominance overshoot and etc... yes... but Cyan issue like in the pics, I don't remember having those.




If I were you, I would wait for the next LG oled. I like my CX, better then C8 for sure but the peak luminance is disappointing and wish LG had made it better this year. C8 to C9 is a good jump . C9 to CX? maybe even a step backwards LOL


EDIT: ok, I tested the video sample we have here from Iron Man and yes, I see the red line clearly and can say for sure now that this issue is not present on my CX. However, the scene from the other movie where they talk in the chamber and cyanic light comes from behind from the window- I didn't see the issue with cyan. It is much smoother and bandingless on CX but on C8 this scene is not that bad either/

[chros]

Thanks, but did you switch back and forth between the hdr10 and DV version (on Netflix).

[kostik]

Thanks, but did you switch back and forth between the hdr10 and DV version (on Netflix).

Did a check on my CX right now, looks good and exactly the same .
Will check tomorrow on the C8. I think seeing now the scene, the cyan looks way smoother and not as bright and as saturated as I saw on the C8

Edit: just thought about it.. I forgot to turn off Dynamic Tonemap on the C8. I don't use it on my 65CX . All your tests on Cyan issues are done with Dynamic Tonemapping turned on or off?

[chros]

DTM is Off here. But I'll try with it enabled as well.

[chros]

I have 2 questions about creating BT.709 SDR 3dlut, if you can help me out with them:

B8 is set up: ifs dark, Black Level High, gamma 2.4, warm2, Wide gamut (-> 97% DCI-P3)
Whole chain is set up: Full RGB 12bit

1. in madvr the infamous Calibration > "this display is already calibrated": DCI-P3, power gamma 2.4
- is this setting is correct???

I noticed if I modify this option the output also will be changed eve when 3dlut is used.
This is really confusing: does this setting has any effect during profiling with DisplayCal? If no, then why does it have during playback when the generated 3dlut is used???

@Manni, if you can shed a light on this ... :)

2. about this "issue" (https://www.avsforum.com/threads/madvr-argyllcms.1471169/post-60182209)
And I noticed that it works the same way when I don't do calibration either (I haven't noticed this before, e.g. a year ago).
- is it because the black level is 0?

Thanks

[VBB]

I wonder what's going on with Florian. He posts very rarely on his own forum, and he hasn't updated DisplayCAL in almost a year.

[chros]

Maybe his software is perfect? :)

[Magik Mark]

Guys, any comment on the latest Nvidia driver v457.09? Does it still switches from hdr to sdr when gui of the player is activated?

[VBB]

I installed it last night, but didn't have time to test HDR. Will do so a bit later. I think Nvidia considers this more of a feature than a bug ;)

[SamuriHL]

I haven't had time to install it yet but tonight is movie night (non-HDR since I can't seem to find a copy of The Crow in 4K anywhere sigh) but I will at least update the drivers before watching that and give it a quick test with HDR. (And if I get a minute I'll drive it through the fury as well and check that metadata isn't broken. Sad that this is something we need to do on every release now)

[SamuriHL]

All is well with the latest driver in regards to HDR as far as I can see. metadata is good and no change to overlay dropping to SDR as seen before.

[VBB]

Thanks for testing!

[Magik Mark]

Thanks for testing!

[mark0077]

Guys,feel free to delete if this is deemed as a duplicate post as I posted it in the madVR thread, but it seems from what I can see to be either Nvidia or LG related, so posting the same details below as I posted in the madVR thread. All LG inputs welcome.

I have had awful trouble getting madVR to play nicely with my system when it comes to HDR playback. I have the following setup. If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.

GPU: GTX 980 with 456.71 drivers
Display: LG C9 65"
madVR: latest beta with the hdr tone mapping section
Player: Latest beta mpc-be
Windows HDR Setting: Off
Nvidia Display Mode: 3840 x 2160 x 23Hz (any hz reproduces the issues). YCbCr444 Limited, 8bpc

madVR / LAV Filters play SDR flawlessly as they always have. With the LG C9 it is well documented that at least in SDR mode, it shows a lot less banding in YCbCr444 8 bpc mode which I have found to be very true, which is what I intend to use for all content for now. The following issues don't happen in RGB Full range mode, only YCbCr444 Limited mode.

So the problems start when playing HDR content with madVR, the following two issues happen.

Note: I have bought numerous brands of HDMI cable including two brands of HDMI 2.1 cables, even though I know the GTX 980 cannot use them to their full extent. So to me on my fourth cable from HDMI 2.0 to 2.1 across numerous brands, I think I can say I have ruled that out.

1) madVR hdr set to "passthrough HDR to display" with "send HDR metadata to the display".
When madVR starts, and the HDR icon appears at the top right of the LG display, the screen goes almost completely green (I know it sounds like a cable, but believe me, it must be something else). When I return out of HDR mode (close the player) it returns to normal, the desktop is no longer green.

When I switch my display to HDR mode from anything else, the a) HDRSwitch tool, from b) Windows HDR settings or c) from games, this green screen / tint doesn't appear. Only when triggered via madVR does it happen.

Can it be sending something else in the "send HDR metadata to the display" that for some reason conflicts with YCbCr 444 and is not meant for that mode?

As mentioned, this doesn't occur in RGB Full range mode, the display never goes any strange colors in that mode. It can do 60hz RGB 8-bit without issues, albeit with the extra banding everyone knows about with these screens.

2) madVR hdr set to "tone map HDR using pixel shaders".
When madVR starts, it obviously leaves the screen in SDR mode, which is as expected. The image shown now looks good (not green) when in windowed mode. When I double click the screen and go fullscreen (not full screen exclusive, just windowed fullscreen), the image goes almost completely black. I can just about see the brightest content on screen. To note here, when this happens, the Ctrl-J content/output shows exactly the same details before/after.

Something as basic as right clicking the display, when in fullscreen, again triggers the image to show the proper black levels, and the Ctrl-J output still remains the same, even the "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (8-bit)" string. When turning off the right click menu, the image again returns to almost completely black, although I can see the shapes moving around.

When I switch off "use Direct3D 11 for presentation" in the general settings, this behaviour stops. D3D9 doesn't seem to show this second issue. Do you think this means its an NVidia issue/madVR issue or something configured wrong on my side thats affecting D3D11.

Again this second issue doesn't happen with RGB Full range mode, even in Direct D3D11.

[VBB]

Mark, I replied to you yesterday in the main thread. Did you see it?

[mark0077]

Thanks VBB, yes using 16-235 isn't really an option for me as I use the PC for both HTPC and also "normal" PC use. I actually think I found something that might help RGB Full 8-bit 0-255 mode band less. Maybe you guys are already aware of it. Its to enable the correct nvidia dithering setting here.

https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/how-to-enable-dithering-on-nvidia-geforce-with-windows-os/

When I import the following into the correct area of my registry (its the 8-bit temporal dithering), and restart the nvidia drivers using CRU, the banding is good now to my eyes, in RGB mode. Do you guys mind trying this? Does this mean we no longer have to recommend using YCBCR 444?

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\State\DisplayDatabase\GSMC0A016843009_01_07E3_8E]
"DitherRegistryKey"=hex:db,01,00,00,10,00,00,00,01,01,01,04,f3,00,00,00

[huhn]

"this" (different tool) has been tested and it's not effecting madVR positively it can only affect it negatively because madVR has it's own dithering and dithering is made to lower bit deep.

the desktops is a bit different but is rendered in 8 bit and dithering 8 bit to 8 bit is doing nothing.

[mark0077]

Yeah I really don't know what this is doing. I thought the same, with the desktop at 8-bit, what would 8-bit temporal dithering be doing. But it does at least do something on the desktop. I have a black to white gradient set as my desktop wallpaper to test this. When the registry key is not there you can see the noticeable banding patterns. When I tried a few settings, I took the notes below, all looking bad except for the 8 bit temporal one.

Maybe we need to come up with a way to test this with madVR to see does it negatively impact it. I'll try to think of a good way to test this.

No registry key present - bad
Key present, but set to "disabled" - bad
Key present, and set to "default" - bad
Key present, and set to "8 bit temporal" - good, few very slight bands
Key present, and set to "10 bit temporal" - not bad but more bands than 8 bit temporal

[huhn]

there are ways to test this with madVR and there is a "much" better tool too.

take this image: http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Gradient-16bit.png and load it in madVR

put the desktop to 8 bit make sure madVR is outputting 10 bit dithering option in madVR isn't that important for this test beware newer test build will not output 10 bit with nvidia when the desktop is 8 bit.

now you look at the green part of this image with temporal dithering in my test it "flickers"(it's temporal it'S made to "flicker"..).

[mark0077]

OK cool. I'm testing that png in madVR at the moment, but with the latest madVR beta, so I can't see any green flickering with nvidia set to temporal 8-bit. Even with the display settings in madVR set to "10 bit or higher". Is this what you see, flickering? Maybe its because as you say, madVR will output 8-bit if it sees the display is currently set to 8. I found some old doom9 threads where people link to a tool to set the dithering settings (very handy) and those discussions seem to be saying the nvidia dithering doesn't affect madVR output, only the desktop. Did you find that in your tests? I can't yet see a downside to using nvidias dithering although I don't know what its really doing to be honest. I wish we had an nvidia contact who could explain why it subjectively at least, makes the desktop look better when its set to dither.

[VBB]

I did a lot of testing with that tool you mentioned (created by a Dutch guy over at AVS). Used to be command line only, but it has evolved since: https://github.com/Maassoft/ColorControl

Anyway, by default, Nvidia drivers dither always except when set to RGB full. That's why you had to enable it and found that it makes a bit of a difference.

[mark0077]

Ah ok that makes sense, and explains why YCbCr 444 always subjectively looked smoother on gradients. Windows must internally have a 10 or 12 bit pipeline that needs dithering to output at the end in 8 bit. But that's pure speculation on my part. I have not yet seen a downside to enabling the dithering anyways in RGB mode.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Just setting my new LG OLED55BX6LB - oh my!.....blown away.

[flaviowolff]

Hey, guys, a quick noobie question: whats the benefit of settings madvr to change the output resolution to 4k23p, compared to straight 4k60hz, considering that the TV has true cinema on?
I'm not using smooth motion, because 50% of my viewing is Netflix and I don't want different motion quality between madvr and Netflix (this would drive me nuts).
Thanks!

[QBhd]

watching 4k23p content at 4k60Hz will be a juddery mess

QB

[flaviowolff]

watching 4k23p content at 4k60Hz will be a juddery mess

QB

isnt true cinema supposed to fix that?

[VBB]

There is Real Cinema and TruMotion. Two different things. The former does pull-down, the latter does interpolation. Smooth motion is neither. If you want to use the TV at 60Hz only, then you should enable SM and disable switching in madVR.

[flaviowolff]

There is Real Cinema and TruMotion. Two different things. The former does pull-down, the latter does interpolation. Smooth motion is neither. If you want to use the TV at 60Hz only, then you should enable SM and disable switching in madVR.

Thanks.
The thing is, I watch lots of contents that dont benefit from madvr (mainly netflix), thus i'm looking for a universal solution. I could simply set my resolution to 2160@23p, but how exactly is that better than 60hz with True Cinema enabled? The fluidity of 60hz with the mouse cursor and windows would be much appreciated, as this is a family room setup.

[VBB]

Do you watch Netflix on your PC? If not, I don't see why it matters. If yes, just set your desktop to 60Hz , and then either enable Real Cinema and don't use smooth motion, or disable Real Cinema and use smooth motion. You're still confusing me by using "True Cinema" ;). If you mean TruMotion, then RC and SM don't matter, because TruMotion takes over everything. If you like interpolation, then make sure NOT to use smooth motion.

[flaviowolff]

Do you watch Netflix on your PC? If not, I don't see why it matters. If yes, just set your desktop to 60Hz , and then either enable Real Cinema and don't use smooth motion, or disable Real Cinema and use smooth motion. You're still confusing me by using "True Cinema" ;). If you mean TruMotion, then RC and SM don't matter, because TruMotion takes over everything. If you like interpolation, then make sure NOT to use smooth motion.

Yes, Real Cinema! Sorry for that. :p

Yes, I watch Netflix on my PC. 60hz + Real Cinema seems right, then.
I don't use True Motion.
Is there any advantage of using 23hz output without real cinema over 60hz + real cinema?
Thanks once again

[VBB]

You want RC on in either case. It will do different pull-downs, depending on the refresh rate. The only time you want RC off is when you use smooth motion (or when the video delay drives you nuts LOL).

[flaviowolff]

You want RC on in either case. It will do different pull-downs, depending on the refresh rate. The only time you want RC off is when you use smooth motion (or when the video delay drives you nuts LOL).

I see.. good to know!
So, whats the actual difference in quality between 23hz vs 60hz output, rc on both, when playing back 23p files? I thought that the main difference was judder from the 2:3 pulldown, but RC is supposed to fix that. Any advantages on using 23p output? :o

[chros]

Just setting my new LG OLED55BX6LB - oh my!.....blown away.
:) Welcome to the club! Isn't 55" small though? Just asking if you are still in the return window...
You can go through this post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871836#post1871836) just to see what you can expect from an LG Oled. If you will have any question after that then just shoot! :)

[VBB]

@flaviowolff - That is the main difference. If you don't notice any judder, then you're good. No need to overthink it.