MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[huhn]

you can ignore them

[Yiorgos]

I dont know if this is a from madvr,MPC-HC or LG C9. If i force YCbCr422 limited in nvidia settings ( because that is the space the tv operates natively), with the tv in regular HDMI mode( not pc) and select TV (16-235) in madvr (tv properties) the video is washed up. Also on tv i have selected Black level low. If i select high the video becomes even more washed out. Is that a known bug? Is the limited video chain (nvidia GPU>LC C9> madVR broken? Video am playing is sdr. RGB full creates more banding thats why i insist on YCbCr422 limited where the tv natively operates. Thanks alot.

[SamuriHL]

It's not a bug. It's an issue with what you're doing and how you have it configured. :) I don't mean that as an insult. What I mean is set madvr to FULL (0-255) and keep your YCbCr422 limited. Keep the tv on black low or auto. This will produce the proper color chain. What's happening now with both madvr and the driver set to limited is it's doing double conversion giving you the washed out colors. Either the driver or madvr should be set to full. This is how I had my HTPC configured before it died and it works really well. Try it out, I think you'll agree.

[Asmodian]

The limited range settings do not mean "pass through the video in the limited range format" as one might expect. They mean "compress 0-255 to 16-325", and you do not want both madVR and the GPU compressing the range.

[SamuriHL]

Yes, exactly that.

[Yiorgos]

It's not a bug. It's an issue with what you're doing and how you have it configured. :) I don't mean that as an insult. What I mean is set madvr to FULL (0-255) and keep your YCbCr422 limited. Keep the tv on black low or auto. This will produce the proper color chain. What's happening now with both madvr and the driver set to limited is it's doing double conversion giving you the washed out colors. Either the driver or madvr should be set to full. This is how I had my HTPC configured before it died and it works really well. Try it out, I think you'll agree.

Thanks so much for this. Apparently i cant multi quote :). I suspected that the limited setting was doing something else in madvr. I know there are a million settings guides out there but any settings you can suggest for upscaling res and chroma without making it look artificial? gpu 3080.
Thanks again to the people who responded.

Edit: Also where can i find the madvr tone mapping module? The beta one. Thanks again.

[Asmodian]

I like NGU AA for a natural and very high quality upscaling option.

NGU AA med for chroma (or high if you must).
NGU AA very high for image upscaling.

[Yiorgos]

I like NGU AA for a natural and very high quality upscaling option.

NGU AA med for chroma (or high if you must).
NGU AA very high for image upscaling.

Thanks. LAV video filter should be left at pc levels and madvr at pc levels if i send YCbCr 422 limited from the driver correct?

[chros]

Thanks. LAV video filter should be left at pc levels and madvr at pc levels if i send YCbCr 422 limited from the driver correct?
Take a look at the links in my signature.

[Asmodian]

Thanks. LAV video filter should be left at pc levels and madvr at pc levels if i send YCbCr 422 limited from the driver correct?

The LAV setting does not matter, that is only for the RGB output that you should never be using.

Yes, madVR should be at PC levels if you have the GPU output YCbCr 4:2:2 limited. My LG CX looks better if I send it 4:4:4 limited, even when it uses 4:2:2 internally.

[SamuriHL]

I like NGU AA for a natural and very high quality upscaling option.

NGU AA med for chroma (or high if you must).
NGU AA very high for image upscaling.I use sharp for upscaling but otherwise same settings. That's very much a personal choice on the aa vs sharp decision.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[huhn]

is the rtings tif good enough to show the day night difference between PC mode and none PC mode?

https://www.rtings.com/images/test-materials/2016/gradient-16-bit.tif

[ashlar42]

is the rtings tif good enough to show the day night difference between PC mode and none PC mode?

https://www.rtings.com/images/test-materials/2016/gradient-16-bit.tif
Night and day difference with dithering enabled?

[huhn]

because there is barely anything yet again.

and i saw the images posted here which i can't reproduce.

[Asmodian]

I can notice differences in banding between sending 8 bit YCbCr 4:4:4 limited and RGB full using that image.

Interestingly RGB in PC mode looks better than RGB in HDMI mode, on my Calman calibrated CX switching the input to HDMI instead of PC caused the RGB full input to have a bit more obvious banding. HDMI sent YCbCr looks the best (least banding). None of the differences are night and day with that image, pausing the gradient-perceptual test pattern in a dark region works better for me.

[huhn]

can you link that?

[Asmodian]

gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv (https://www.mediafire.com/file/z1f4ahg3784lfwz/gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv/file)
gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv (https://www.mediafire.com/file/4dia3lixs0n9xyo/gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv/file)

[ashlar42]

Anyone using ColourSpace to create 3D LUTs for madVR? If there's any tip/trick to bear in mind, I would appreciate you sharing it. Thanks. :-)

[Chouonsoku]

So madVR is totally screwed on Windows 11 for HDR right now, right? Got a new LG C1 and have been using a Shield for most of my content but wanted to setup madVR again. Noticed I don't have the option of 10 or 12 bpc in NVCP anymore even if I turn on Windows HDR for the OLED. Watching stuff on my monitor also appears washed out, but then when I take screenshots through MPC-HC, the video is properly tonemapped.

[Wull]

Hoping someone can point me in the right 'setting' direction.

I have, successfully for sometime now, been using madvr to tone map HDR using pixel shaders to my projector. I can also switch to1080p films with no issues. Yesterday I picked up an LG CX OLED. Instead of using madvr pixel shaders, I set this to 'passthrough HDR to display/send HDR metadata to the display. With HDR material everything looks fine, but when I play a 1080p film the picture goes really dark. However, if I restart my HTPC, and play some 1080p material first, all is OK. But if I then play HDR material and then go back to 1080p I'm back to square one, with a dark 1080p picture. No matter which setting I try in madvr HDR options the outcome is always the same, a dark 1080p picture.

Any thoughts?

[Asmodian]

OS and GPU and GPU driver version?

HDR support is non-ideal in general, but that isn't normal. :(

[Wull]

os and gpu and gpu driver version?

Hdr support is non-ideal in general, but that isn't normal. :(

Hi.

W10
GTX 1080
456.71

edit.

May have found a workaround. If I use madvr's pixel shaders from the off everything is fine. It's when I use 'passthrough HDR to display/send HDR metadata to the display' it all goes odd. Having used 'passthrough HDR to display/send HDR metadata to the display' then revert back to using pixel shaders for HDR, even the HDR picture goes really dark.

I'm really new to the LG. There may be a setting within it's menu I need to adjust.

On a quick note. madvr settings. I have my GPU set to 'Full RGB' should I set madvr to TV level (16-235)
Set HDR profile to DCI-P3/pure gamma curve 2.40 and SDR to BT.709/pure gamma curve 2.40?

[QBhd]

Make sure HMDI Rich Color (or whatever it's called) is enabled for your HDMI port on the TV... Setting can only be changed when the port is active

QB

[flaviowolff]

Hello there, could someone kindly suggest me a good curve for madvr beta dynamic tonemapping (using HGIG - hdr game mode in PC mode on C1, so no TV tonemapping)?
Ty

[e-t172]

Hello,

I'd like to experiment and do some research with the internal 1DLUT/3DLUT functionality of my brand new G1. I have a few questions before I start:

- Did anyone actually attempt to use aiopylgtv/bscpylgtv calibration commands (start_calibration , ddc_reset, upload_1d_lut, upload_3d_lut) with a C1/G1? Given that there is a big warning on these commands that they have the potential to brick the TV, I'd certainly like some extra reassurance before I try them on a £4,500 piece of hardware…

- Just to be clear, anything I do with these commands is reversible with a factory reset, right? So I can't mess things up permanently?

[chros]

Personally I didn't since I only have a B8, but here's a user who claims it doesn't work (https://github.com/bendavid/aiopylgtv/issues/44).
I only heard about bricking a C8 when wrong implementation of dolby vision config was uploaded (it was fixed later on).
Try out these commands, you will see whether it works or not (it should not break anything, in theory :) , since we don't upload anything), SDR Expert ISF Bright Room preset in the example:

aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.18 start_calibration expert1
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.18 set_oled_light expert1 56
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.18 end_calibration expert1


You don't have to modify anything in the code for these to work (C1 is not supported yet oficially), if they do (see the calibration toast popup message and oled light is changing) then you have to modify the calibration_support_info() method to include the C1 in it (same as C8 and C9) to work with other calibration commands.

[ashlar42]

Hello,

I'd like to experiment and do some research with the internal 1DLUT/3DLUT functionality of my brand new G1. I have a few questions before I start:

- Did anyone actually attempt to use aiopylgtv/bscpylgtv calibration commands (start_calibration , ddc_reset, upload_1d_lut, upload_3d_lut) with a C1/G1? Given that there is a big warning on these commands that they have the potential to brick the TV, I'd certainly like some extra reassurance before I try them on a £4,500 piece of hardware…

- Just to be clear, anything I do with these commands is reversible with a factory reset, right? So I can't mess things up permanently?
From what little I understand, you would do better to stay away from 1DLUT and just do an extensive 3DLUT calibration.

[stefanelli73]

I have my sdr mode on the c8 calibrated to both rec709 and dci-p3 (using the rec2020 lut slot). So that's not an issue. The issue is that when playing hdr it doesn't use that rec2020 lut slot obviously. But if I can generate a madvr rec2020 lut and have it get used in hdr that would be wildly amazing I think. Not something I had even considered previously.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

Were you able to do this? This is of particular interest to me

[SamuriHL]

Nope.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[stefanelli73]

Nope.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

Currently with my 77 "LG C1 I am using the CALMAN HOME FOR LG auto-calibration for HDR and DOLBY VISION with excellent results, after having done the calibration in HDR I use MadVr tone mapping (hdr output) .... ... in this regard, if you also use MadVr tone mapping what are your settings?

[stefanelli73]

I highly doubt that creating an SDR 3DLUT will be "accurate" for HDR in madvr.


In fact I have not tried it myself to do two calibrations in SDR DCI-P3 and SDR BT2020 and apply them in HDR, the result is that the image was very dynamic, but with a strong tendency to red, it is especially noticeable on the faces

[SamuriHL]

Search for quietvoid's settings for madvr for OLED.

Red push tends to mean the image is oversaturated. Which can be caused by a variety of different issues. Wrong color space being a big one.

[chros]

Can someone try out these new "remote buttons" who has a CX or C1 with bscpylgtv (https://github.com/chros73/bscpylgtv/)? (there's windows binaries, lite is enough) Which ones work?
NETFLIX, GUIDE, TVGUIDE, AMAZON, DISNEY, DISNEYPLUS, APPLETV, APPLETVPLUS, ALEXA

Example (modify the IP address):
bscpylgtvcommand 192.168.1.18 button NETFLIX

[iceorbital]

Something is been bugging me for a couple days. I've followed everything (I really mean everything) everything that is on the internet to setup madvr for 4K HDR (I have W11 and a RTX3080). No matter what I try (including Quietvoid's settings on tone mapping 140, 4:4:4 on Nvidia cpl, latest lav filters), the image coming out of mpc-hc, is less bright, less punchy than if I just take the same video on an usb and watch it directly from the TV's media player (I have a 2021 G1 with latest firmware). The only thing I can pinpoint is tv's own media player fires the ISF bright mode, whereas that mode is not available in Windows 11 when HDR is active. I have tried multiple modes, settling in Cinema (user). Any ideas or definite list of settings for new(er) LG OLED TVs?

[quietvoid]

I'm not familiar with the 2021 models, but is there actually a ISF bright mode in HDR?
That sounds like a SDR mode to me.

Supposedly Windows 11 has a bug where HDR is not triggered properly.
I don't run it so I don't know.

[SamuriHL]

That's exactly what it sounds like. Either that or you don't have the output HDR checkbox checked in madvr settings for tone mapping.

[ashlar42]

I'm not familiar with the 2021 models, but is there actually a ISF bright mode in HDR?No, there isn't.

[iceorbital]

of course I haven't been able to repro the specific conditions, but I would swear I was loading several HDR files via a usb stick and the media app on the tv and having ISF bright (which I agree it shouldn't be the case). Anyhoo. Gremlins. If I get a repro I'll post steps, otherwise, user error boo for me!

[Hammy]

Hi everyone.

Looking into HDR 3dluts again as things seem to have moved on in the last year or so. I have so far managed to do the following for my 2018 C8:

1) Create and apply in madVR a rec.2020 3dlut (from a synthetic profile) as suggested here (http://forum.doom9.net/showpost.php?p=1946716&postcount=1886).
2) Upload a "unity" 3dlut (which I'm guessing is empty/blank/netural or such) to a slot using aiopylgtv.

I haven't had a whole lot of time to visually inspect the results (bright afternoon here), but first impressions are that things are greatly changed (improved?) from a tint/saturation stand-point. Things look more vivid with less of an obvious red push.

The question I have is this: is it possible for me to now make a custom 3dlut (as opposed to synthetic) for rec.2020 in displaycal using my meter? I know at least @chros (http://forum.doom9.net/member.php?u=8826) has attempted/done this in the past, but I'm not sure what they finally settled on. I am thinking a synthetic 3dlut is less than optimal as the I have the tools and basic knowledge, but please correct me if there is another approach.

[ashlar42]

of course I haven't been able to repro the specific conditions, but I would swear I was loading several HDR files via a usb stick and the media app on the tv and having ISF bright (which I agree it shouldn't be the case). Anyhoo. Gremlins. If I get a repro I'll post steps, otherwise, user error boo for me!
Don't sweat it. It happens to everyone, from time to time. :-)

[Hammy]

Currently deep down the calibrating rabbit hole.

A quick question to any B8/C8 owners. Does non-PC mode with a PC/nvidia card ALWAYS display bt.2020 in the banner at the top of the screen? I have recently only started uploading the 3dluts directly to the TV and I am trying to figure out which slot(s) and modes to be calibrating in.

[SamuriHL]

Not unless you have madvr tell it to output the bt.2020 flag.

I personally calibrate my SDR modes for both rec.709 and for bt.2020. Yes, you can do both depending on how you upload the 3D LUT. I use device manager with colourspace. I don't bother with HDR or DV calibration as they are pointless on a C8. I do calibrate my white point balance for both SDR and HDR/DV in the service menu (cool for SDR and warm for HDR/DV in my case).

Don't try to upload the same 3D LUT to both rec.709 and bt.2020, however. You have to create a new lut for bt.2020.

[Hammy]

Not unless you have madvr tell it to output the bt.2020 flag.

I personally calibrate my SDR modes for both rec.709 and for bt.2020. Yes, you can do both depending on how you upload the 3D LUT. I use device manager with colourspace. I don't bother with HDR or DV calibration as they are pointless on a C8. I do calibrate my white point balance for both SDR and HDR/DV in the service menu (cool for SDR and warm for HDR/DV in my case).

Don't try to upload the same 3D LUT to both rec.709 and bt.2020, however. You have to create a new lut for bt.2020.
Hi Samuri! Thanks for that. I had posted a long message the other day quoting and thanking you and chros and a few other knowledgeable people who I've been following in this thread, but it was flagged as my "first post mod check" and I wasn't able to post until now.

There must be gremlins in my setup because, even without madVR, Windows (8.1) appears to always and only send bt.2020 as reported in the C8's banner. I can send SDR patches with either madTPG or ChromeCast, but only with ChromeCast is there no bt.2020 flag.

Is there a widely agreed upon NVIDIA driver version for someone with W8.1 and a 1070ti? or is there another obvious reason that I can't get it to remove the bt.2020 flag in SDR mode?

EDIT: Still not sure how I got stuck in that mode (maybe custom resolutions?) but a few driver wipes and 471.12 seems to have removed the flag. More questions will follow ;)

[SamuriHL]

Personally I don't use a PC for a tpg. I use the rpi4 with pgenerator. It's bit perfect.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[Hammy]

Managed to get a near-perfect SDR calibration, at least "good enough", and I can't notice any difference with the 3dlut uploaded to the TV compared with it in madVR. To be honest, I don't think I could A/B if a 3dlut was active or not on the C8 once SM white point was calibrated. I guess white point is 95% of the job on a decent set.

I read and re-read the posts regarding the cyan tint in bt2020 many times. I have always felt something was off in HDR, but had no way of uploading to the TV until recently (HCFR+DisplayCAL being my only tools..).

So far, I think the best results for HDR is SM white point + unity 3dlut + synthetic profile in madVR (as here (http://forum.doom9.net/showthread.php?p=1946716#post1946716)). This isn't ideal for non-PC inputs though.

Can anyone direct me on how to create a 1dlut for bt2020/HDR with the tools available to me? I have reset both luts in a spare HDR mode, but I'm not even sure what to be measuring. And to confirm, is there actually a problem with the way the C8 processes the bt2020 3dlut, or is the problem simply with the factory bt2020 3dlut?

[SamuriHL]

I would not bother with 1D lut or 3D lut on a C8 for HDR. It's pointless. 1D lut suffers problems. The SM white point is very helpful. I don't go beyond that for HDR modes including DV.

[Hammy]

Well I spent a few days on this. The only combination I could find that provides correction for the cyan tint is factory 1dlut+synthetic 3dlut in madVR. Any other combination (including a calibrated 2.2 gamma 1dlut uploaded to the TV) either results in loss of saturation or cyan tint in dark scenes. Even uploading the synthetic 3dlut to the TV produces the tint, while in madVR it does not.

The nice thing is that you don't need to own a meter to try this. Just set up a HDR slot with Warm2 and remove the factory 3dlut with free aiopylgtv tool. I guess you can remove luts with those paid softwares too :D

I have linked two 3dluts which are visually the most similar to the factory 3dlut, while not producing the cyan tint. They were created in DisplayCal using the methods outlined by @chros (http://forum.doom9.net/member.php?u=8826) and @j82k (http://forum.doom9.net/member.php?u=226664). What did you guys settle on in the end?

Created with rendering intent:

'Preserve saturation' (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ABELAgQYBm325UbhFFFRUpT4YYTOfVQ-/view?usp=sharing) (visually identical w/o tint)
'Saturation' (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V9Kxx6oLK-9S_KQOgoqmrLUs7Wx2tC7o/view?usp=sharing) (same as above, but little bit more saturation)

Next I might try measuring my primaries and inputting them into the profile used to create the luts. In theory it could work, but I really like how things look at the moment as well.

[sepp1234]

Hi,
I've just discovered what you guys have been doing in regards to importing custom tone mapping curves into LG OLEDs.
Until now I've been using madvr with a JVC x7900 and with my LG B7
set to 640 target peak nits (which is what I measured).

So what I unsterstand is, that by importing custom tone mapping curves into the newer LG OLEDs you can in effect disable tone mapping inside the TV. Correct?
I do own Colourspace and I can import the curves with it. Correct, too?

Is there such a work around for a Sony A80J as well?

Because right now I could buy a LG G1 or a Sony A80J for the same price: 1300€. Or even a C1 for 1090,-.
And with the G1 being not all that much brighter and the Sony having the very cool acoustic surface sound option (and even using it as a center speaker) I´d be tempted to lean towards the Sony.

But anyway: Using madvr for HDR tone mapping without the TV double tone mapping is more important to me. And if that´s not possible with the Sony, I´d prefer staying with LG.

What do you guys think?
Any comment would be highly appreciated. I´ve read a lot in this thread, but it´s gotten quite long and it´s been difficult for me to find the info I was searching for...:)

[e-t172]

So what I unsterstand is, that by importing custom tone mapping curves into the newer LG OLEDs you can in effect disable tone mapping inside the TV. Correct?

A simpler way of effectively disabling tone mapping is to set the HDR metadata sent to the TV such that it matches its own tone mapping peak luminance. For example with my G1 it's around 775 nits. That is, if I send maxCLL=775 to the TV, then its internal tone mapping is effectively bypassed because the TV concludes there is no tone mapping to do. I have personally verified this through measurements - with maxCLL=775 the TV's response curve matches ST.2084 PQ pretty much exactly, with hard clipping as expected.

Otherwise, you can also alter the internal tone mapping parameters directly using DeviceControl (https://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/lg-oled-2019-pq-curve-upload-free-template-for-devicecontrol-interface.13237/) (for Colorspace) or Calman for LG (https://kb.portrait.com/help/lg-2019-custom-tone-mapping). Sadly aiopylgtv doesn't seem to have support for this (yet).

Note that obviously the above only applies to luminance curve tone mapping, not to gamut mapping.

[sepp1234]

Ok, thank you!
So - how do I send a certain maxCLL value to my TV? :)
And... with this method I could also use a Sony OLED, right?