MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[Asmodian]

What label do you have set for the HDMI port on your C9?

[VBB]

I'm using my PC to play Pot Player and Kodi with DSplayer and MAdvr, is that PC Mode?

What is Normal Mode?

PC mode is when you set the label for the HDMI port on the LG TV to "PC". It puts the display into 4:4:4 (no chroma subsampling) mode. Among other things, this makes small text more legible. Unfortunately, this causes a lot of banding, especially in HDR mode. When using PC mode, the consensus is to use YCbCr 4:4:4 for SDR (rather than RGB), due to reduced banding. For HDR, PC mode is not really viable, although some here still use it (looking at you, chros ;)).

Normal mode is leaving the HDMI port label either at default or changing it to anything other than PC (correct me, if there is another label that triggers 4:4:4).

In my opinion, if you don't use your PC for anything other than watching media, there is no real reason to use PC mode. In an ideal world, we'd all be using full chroma, but for now the cons outweigh the pros. That is until LG get their act together. There is no reason they can't make this work properly, especially now that HDMI 2.1 is here. Bandwidth and/or processing power should not be used as an excuse any longer.

[Magik Mark]

PC mode is when you set the label for the HDMI port on the LG TV to "PC". It puts the display into 4:4:4 (no chroma subsampling) mode. Among other things, this makes small text more legible. Unfortunately, this causes a lot of banding, especially in HDR mode. When using PC mode, the consensus is to use YCbCr 4:4:4 for SDR (rather than RGB), due to reduced banding. For HDR, PC mode is not really viable, although some here still use it (looking at you, chros ;)).

Normal mode is leaving the HDMI port label either at default or changing it to anything other than PC (correct me, if there is another label that triggers 4:4:4).

In my opinion, if you don't use your PC for anything other than watching media, there is no real reason to use PC mode. In an ideal world, we'd all be using full chroma, but for now the cons outweigh the pros. That is until LG get their act together. There is no reason they can't make this work properly, especially now that HDMI 2.1 is here. Bandwidth and/or processing power should not be used as an excuse any longer.

Oh I see. This is new for me. Thanks alot

I have noticed as well nobody is setting their GPU to 12bit. Any particular reason?

[VBB]

With anything other than 4:2:2, you don't get to pick 10-bit anyway. It's always either 8-bit or 12-bit (with Nvidia). For 4:2:2 and our OLEDs, I found that there is no real difference visually between 10-bit and 12-bit. This probably has something to do with the fact that in this case the signal is always sent as 12-bit anyway. Not sure if that's an Nvidia bug or something else. I believe SamuriHL pointed this out first, and I confirmed it via my Denon. Nothing's perfect, I guess :)

[Magik Mark]

Thanks a lot for the input. Really appreciated it

[Asmodian]

In my opinion, if you don't use your PC for anything other than watching media, there is no real reason to use PC mode.

This is not true! A major benefit of madVR is high quality chroma upscaling. While LG is not good at handling PC mode with RGB input, or HDR in PC mode at all, don't dismiss 4:4:4 chroma completely!

If you can get banding free gradients in PC mode it is better quality than any of the non-PC modes, with madVR. My C9 is great with 8 bit YCbCr 444 in PC mode, and I get better quality with blurays played through madVR in PC mode with that than I do in HDMI mode with 10 bit YCbCr 422. This is only with SDR, my C9 is still very bad at HDR in PC mode. :(

The C9, mine at least, has improved PC mode, albeit only with SDR 8 bit YCbCr input. :p

But, yeah, LG OLEDs require balancing tradeoffs and HDMI mode is a lot more forgiving. PC mode with any other input format is worse than HDMI mode with any input format on my C9 but it is also a different issue, banding in some gradients v.s. every single frame slightly blurred in that subsampled chroma way. I really wish I could keep madVR's 8 bit RGB output untouched. :(

[VBB]

That's why I said "in my opinion". I would never argue the benefit of full chroma. It's just too much of a hassle with the OLEDs. So, yeah, trade-offs on both sides. I prefer not to switch to a different mode when I watch HDR, which is quite often. And speaking of blurring - we already do that anyway by using smooth motion. There is no win-win.

[Asmodian]

Good point. I cannot say "not true" to your opinion. :)
I totally understand not wanting to change HDMI labels all the time, but that is different from saying there is no point to full resolution chroma. ;)

Smooth motion blurring is very different from chroma subsampling bluring, but I agree, there is no win-win.

[SamuriHL]

We suffer the limitations of current display tech and hope that these issues get resolved before we upgrade. Well, not you, Asmodian as you seem to have an incurable upgrade disease. :p :D I've also settled on YCbCr 422 10 bit on the PC and it looks very good. And yes, to the comment above, nVidia wraps 10 bit in a 12 bit signal on the PC.

[oddball]

Has anyone got a guide for setting up DisplayCal with MadVR 3DLut for SDR and HDR calibration outputting from Win10 PC 12bit 4:4:4 RGB? LG OLED55B6V BTW. When setting the B6 to PC input on HDMI2 (set to accept BT2020 input) the TV auto sets itself to wide gamut. Not sure if it should be on normal or not. Also when doing HDR calibration should Win10 be set to HDR mode on the display and/or HDR Output set in DisplayCal instead of tone mapped?

Damned confusing this.

[senzaparole]

Hello guys.

I have a TV LG B9 65", a PC with RX 5700 XT and a Denon X3500H.
The PC is connected to the DENON and the DENON is connected to the TV.

I have some doubts about the settings:

1. on the LG B9 TV set:
- black level on HIGH.
- Does dynamic tone mapping turn on or off?
- do I have to set the HDMI port to which the PC is connected and the bluray player via the AVR Denon X3500H in PC Mode or in (for example) Home Theater Mode?

2. Imposed the video card: 10-bit color depth and RGB 4: 4: 4: PC standard pixel format (full RGB).

[chros]

For HDR, PC mode is not really viable, although some here still use it (looking at you, chros ;)).
:) I read you :)

I have noticed as well nobody is setting their GPU to 12bit.
I do :)

Smooth motion blurring is very different from chroma subsampling bluring, but I agree, there is no win-win.
I don't like SM either, I match refresh rates.

Has anyone got a guide for setting up DisplayCal with MadVR 3DLut for SDR and HDR calibration outputting from Win10 PC 12bit 4:4:4 RGB?
Take a look at section IV of this post. (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871836#post1871836)

I have some doubts about the settings:

1. on the LG B9 TV set:
- black level on HIGH.
- Does dynamic tone mapping turn on or off?
- do I have to set the HDMI port to which the PC is connected and the bluray player via the AVR Denon X3500H in PC Mode or in (for example) Home Theater Mode?

2. Imposed the video card: 10-bit color depth and RGB 4: 4: 4: PC standard pixel format (full RGB).

1.
- dynamic tone mapping: it's up to you whether enable or disable it
- PC Mode or in Home Theater Mode: if you can't live without chroma 4:4:4 (like me :)) then go for PC mode, if you can then the other

2. read back the whole thread from the above link and you will see that no win-win situation, you have to decide what you can live with

[senzaparole]

thanks for the replies.

If I enable PC mode in the HDMI 2 port of the TV, the external bluray player will also be connected to this port via the Denon X3500H.

Can the PC mode of the TV negatively affect the connection with the external bluray player?

[chros]

Can the PC mode of the TV negatively affect the connection with the external bluray player?
Yes. But you can manually switch it back of you need to.

[Yviena]

In my case with my LG C9 with input set to HDMI mode, RGB FULL/ TV set to black level high has more banding than RGB limited/ TV set to low, and i believe ycbcr 4:4:4 limited with TV set to black level low also has a little less banding than RGB limited/low.

Also Game mode has somewhat worse banding in the near blacks, when looking at a gradient test the black in the gradient test looks different than in ISF dark/bright mode so i believe the gamma is different even if both are set to BT1886.

[senzaparole]

Yes. But you can manually switch it back of you need to.

I contacted LG about the PC mode or other modes selectable in the Dashboard by changing the HDMI port icon.
LG wrote to me that changing the icon does not change the characteristics of the selected input and therefore does not change the color space either.
The icon you choose doesn't matter.
I own an LG B9, could it be that for this model the icon has no meaning?

[chros]

LG wrote to me that changing the icon does not change the characteristics of the selected input
:D :D :D Just read back or search on the web for it.

[senzaparole]

I'm confused. LG officially denies what can be found on the web.

[Asmodian]

Whoever talked to you at LG knows less about the product than their users. Not surprising really, tier one support can be pretty inexperienced.

It is also largely true, only PC mode differs as far as I know.

[senzaparole]

thanks for the clarification. I apologize if I doubted

[Magik Mark]

I'm experimenting with madvr beta 113. Is there a procedure in installing it? I just copied it in my madvr folder. I was able to run the configuration but when I play a movie it hangs and asking me to quit or continue.

Continuing freezes the player. Do I need to reset it then redo the configuration?

[quietvoid]

You need to disable smooth motion with beta 113, there is a bug that crashes the renderer.

[Magik Mark]

Oh. Thanks for letting me know


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[senzaparole]

Hello guys.

I own an LG B9 TV and a pc with the RX 5700 XT video card.

Do you recommend in the madVR settings to select "tone map HDR using shaders" without selecting "video output in HDR format"?

I would do an HDR> SDR conversion on the LG B9 TV using madVR tone mapping.

In this way I also solve the problem of the washed out colors caused by the Rx 5700 XT when the TV switches to HDR mode.
It's a good idea or is it better to enable video output in HDr format??

[Asmodian]

I think it is a good idea, at least until AMD's drivers get fixed.

[senzaparole]

I abbandoned the conversion from HDR to SDR on the LG OLED B9 because the videos have a low brightness.

So to solve the problem of the drivers of the RX 5700 XT I thought to enable the Windows HDR:


https://i.ibb.co/RNpNrcs/IMG-20200210-WA0003.jpg (https://ibb.co/XDZD0tK)


https://i.ibb.co/FHCL8Zd/IMG-20200210-WA0004.jpg (https://ibb.co/RjdkQrJ)


It all seems ok but I'm not an expert. What are you saying? Can I improve something?
In chroma upscaling and image upscaling I have selected NGU sharp for 4K videos only.

[Magik Mark]

When using MadVR Tone mapping, Shall I:

1. Passthrough Meta data to the display?
2. Turn off dynamic tone mapping of the display?

Any other prerequisites?

[SamuriHL]

I use HDR output enabled, real display nits set to 700, and most definitely disable the LG DTM.

[Magik Mark]

Thanks a lot. Do you mind sharing the screenshot of your MadVR tone Mapping?

[QBhd]

Here is mine... But I'm always curious to see others as well

http://qbstorrents.erebus.feralhosting.com/Doom9/madVR.tonemapping.png

QB

[Magik Mark]

Thanks QBhd

This is b113 right?

How about your 60FPS hdr?

[QBhd]

I just passthrough 60fps... slide show with tone mapping so I needed a profile for the One and Only 60 fps movie out there (at least new movies)… I really don't expect it will be used again :)

QB

[Magik Mark]

Thanks again QBhd!

[SamuriHL]

Those are almost identical to my settings. The things I changed are really preference items. But I'm using the same curve and saturation settings. Sorry I didn't get to post them yesterday. Got busy watching some movies.

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[chros]

Thanks a lot. Do you mind sharing the screenshot of your MadVR tone Mapping?
Here it is (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1901625&postcount=58661).

[Magik Mark]

Thanks guys!


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[Magik Mark]

For those who are not using SM, can you share any tips and procedure for minimizing or completely eliminating frame drops on 2160p 23, 25 and 60 FPS? So war 24FPS in my oled C9 65" is perfect.

If you are using CRU can you share screenshots on what you have done?

Thank you so much!

[Yviena]

Hmm has anyone noticed that in PC-MODE setting native bitdepth in madvr to 6bit together with Ycbcr in NVCP get's rid of the vertical stripes in the darker regions in a gradient test?

[RXP]

Interesting comparison here: OLED Game Mode vs Cinema mode: https://youtu.be/ZmT8yvopMLg?t=454

No real differences but Game Mode has slightly more Chroma resolution.

[huhn]

he is kinda saying the opposite of the tested results in this thread.

and someone should tell him not all LCD TV work the same in game mode what he just blindly assumes here.

[Yviena]

Hmm contrary to that youtube video i can on my C9 see a little worse banding in the near dark regions when game mode is used.

[SamuriHL]

Imagine that. :D Yes, this has been tested extensively by those in this thread. That youtube video (which I didn't bother to watch) is wrong.

[huhn]

you should he is one of the best in the field...
even if he is wrong.

there is a lot of context missing like what type of signal is send and such.

[SamuriHL]

That's always the trouble with these blanket statements. There are a LOT of variables to contend with.

[nevcairiel]

you should he is one of the best in the field...
even if he is wrong.

Everytime I see one of his videos mentioned, he is usually wrong about something or vastly generalizing. Must not be a good field. :D

[huhn]

well...
i would like to disagree but i can't that just shows how good this field is covered. he is really one of the best out there to take a deeper look not deep enough but he tries.

[iSeries]

Let's not forget Vincent is a pro calibrator first and foremost. He targets his videos to a general audience who don't really know the technical stuff that well.

He was also instrumental in getting the 2018 LG oleds the dithering 'fix' for the overshoot issue.

[SamuriHL]

I have a lot of respect for Vincent and what he's done for the industry. That being said, he's not always correct. :) And when you don't take into account all the variables around a particular topic, making generalized statements can be problematic as we know. That doesn't negate the good he's done.

[iSeries]

He has to generalise otherwise his videos would be hours long if he took every variable and every possible outcome into account :-)

[SamuriHL]

And that's how you end up with the wrong conclusion at times. :)