MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread [Archive] - Page 12

VBB

11th January 2020, 22:03

Mark, thanks for doing this. I know you mentioned this on the previous page, but it would help other people to once again say that your testing was done in PC mode and not in normal mode. The results are different.

mark0077

12th January 2020, 00:14

chros

12th January 2020, 00:15

I agree with VBB. But if PC mode was tested then what's the point of testing 4:2:2? :)

Asmodian

12th January 2020, 00:57

LG is bragging that they fixed HDR for low latency gaming. I am hopeful this will apply to PC mode as well, but we will have to see. On my C7 and C9 HDR in PC mode is simply not good enough. :(

mi3gai4rui4

12th January 2020, 01:08

Hi all,
I've got a C6 (latest firmware) and an nVidia GeForce 1080Ti.
Is there a guide somewhere for the combination of settings on the PC and the TV that will give me the best picture quality during madVR playback?
I watch lots of SDR, lots of HDR, mostly in a dark room.

For the past several years I've been using these settings but have noticed quite a bit of banding on HDR content and in trying to improve it I found this thread, but I'm having trouble figuring out if there's a consensus on the best settings:
HDMI label: PC
nVidia control panel settings: RGB full, 12-bit
madVR: Pass through HDR metadata, RGB PC levels

Many thanks.

SamuriHL

12th January 2020, 01:09

Nor on my C8. (PC mode that is)

Asmodian

12th January 2020, 22:36

HDMI label: PC
nVidia control panel settings: RGB full, 12-bit
madVR: Pass through HDR metadata, RGB PC levels

The HDMI label should be anything except PC (or game?) for HDR. No real consensus yet for the other settings. I still need to do more testing for HDR but I use YCbCr 444, 8-bit and your settings in madVR. :o

Edit: for madVR the advice in this post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1895548#post1895548) sounds very good to me. I would trust that over what I am using right now.
At least 2018 models works best with MDL and maxCLL 700 and setting this value in madvr with hdr output and pixelshader tonemapping. In 2019 models the peak can be set via a util but defaulting to 700 as well, other brands need to be tested.

SamuriHL

13th January 2020, 01:14

Yes, that's what most of us are using on the 2018 models and that should apply to other models, as well, unless you've messed with the built in curve (i.e. on a C9). We've been getting fantastic results with madvr's latest test build and tone mapping to 700 nits.

Magik Mark

15th January 2020, 00:42

Guys,

I made the ff profile for refresh rate switching:

4K: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59
HD: 1080p100, 1080p119, 1080p120

No problem switching to HD Refresh Rates. However, it seems 4K does not not follow its own. It however downscale the video and uses Hds instead.
Is there a problem in my setup?

Thanks

Asmodian

15th January 2020, 03:55

Make sure the 4K resolutions are first, or are you using separate profiles? If you are, what is your profile rule?
Are you sure it is ever using the 4K profile?

Magik Mark

15th January 2020, 09:48

Make sure the 4K resolutions are first, or are you using separate profiles? If you are, what is your profile rule?
Are you sure it is ever using the 4K profile?

Thanks. I think your solution is way better.

Do you happen to know how to use CRU in making customize refresh rates for the ff:

2160p@23hz
1080p@119hz

The timings are way off. I think LG doesn't even support it

nevcairiel

15th January 2020, 11:01

I would personally not recommend to switch resolution. Players/Windows can get confused by that and trip a high-DPI mode, resulting in double-scaling.

Magik Mark

15th January 2020, 11:52

I would personally not recommend to switch resolution. Players/Windows can get confused by that and trip a high-DPI mode, resulting in double-scaling.

You are right. Image is a bit bigger

Anymore tips for using madvr and LAV in LG OLED?

VBB

15th January 2020, 18:54

iSeries

15th January 2020, 23:14

For sure smooth motion at 60hz is much smoother than 23p and Real Cinema. The extra blurring does bother me a bit though. Actually I've gone back to 23p and trying Trumotion. LG must have improved this at some point because last time I tried it there were too many artifacts, but dejudder on 2 and i have yet to see any artifacts and the motion is smooth with minimal soap opera effect.

Ycbcr 422 10 bit looks good to me, too. Thanks for testing it! I did a few tests of my own and it does look good.

quietvoid

15th January 2020, 23:44

I haven't looked at test patterns but with RGB 8 bit output on the GPU, I never see banding where there shouldn't be on my C8.
Nor do I notice anything wrong with motion with 2160p23
Maybe I'm just not as picky..

Magik Mark

16th January 2020, 00:45

Some of us are now using 2160p@60Hz exclusively along with madvr's smooth motion. This results in, well, smoother motion on the OLED :D

And, as most of you know by now, I've been advocating YCbCr 4:2:2 10-bit for virtually no banding at all. No regrets so far.

Do you also set madvr to 10bit?

SamuriHL

16th January 2020, 00:52

Yes, and full.

Magik Mark

16th January 2020, 00:56

Thanks SamuriHL.

VBB you are right! Image looks better at YCbCr 4:2:2 10-bit. Shadow details are more conspicuous

Magik Mark

16th January 2020, 01:18

Is it also the same to you guys? I can't get fullscreen exclusive. Only 8bit window

Maybe I missed something?

SamuriHL

16th January 2020, 01:49

If you're on windows 10, use window mode as full screen exclusive doesn't work on later windows 10 builds. I've not had any issues with window mode.

VBB

16th January 2020, 04:40

Magik Mark

16th January 2020, 05:42

Thanks VBB & SamuriHL

Magik Mark

16th January 2020, 13:56

I have also observed that indicating your actual number of CPU threads in "Threads for MultiThreading" found in LAV Video Decoder gives smoother playback especially when running your CPU in almost full load, just liken when encoding videos.

All along I thought NGU AA very high was the culprit in dropping frames. I was mistaken.

huhn

16th January 2020, 16:39

you could use hardware decoding which ignores this option.

biship

16th January 2020, 16:58

you could use hardware decoding which ignores this option.

What setting(s) switch from software to hardware decoding?

huhn

16th January 2020, 17:08

under video settings in the hardware acceleration tab.

chros

16th January 2020, 18:42

LG is bragging that they fixed HDR for low latency gaming. I am hopeful this will apply to PC mode as well, but we will have to see. On my C7 and C9 HDR in PC mode is simply not good enough. :(
That's good news, do you have a link? But since the SoC is not much different compared to last year (alpha 9 gen 2 vs gen 3), I can't imagine where the improvemnt comes from, firmware?

Teddy_McFluff

16th January 2020, 22:58

@Magik Mark - Yes to FS windowed, madVR 10-bit 0-255, OLED Black Level Low. There is a bug in madVR, where it sometimes switches back to 8-bit playback, even though everything is set to 10-bit. When that happens, only a reboot fixes it for me.

Wouldn't that have crushed blacks for if the tv is set on low? Do I have madvr, GPU, tv set @ low high low? If not let me know as I'm trying to fix my set up I'm using potplayer though with madvr with lav

VBB

16th January 2020, 23:05

With video card limited, madVR full, and TV low, everything would be fine. Another option would be video card full, madVR full, TV high. Any reason why you're doing what you're doing?

Teddy_McFluff

16th January 2020, 23:26

With video card limited, madVR full, and TV low, everything would be fine. Another option would be video card full, madVR full, TV high. Any reason why you're doing what you're doing?

I have mine on high, full, high 8bit. I'm using potplayer with lav filters loaded and using my c8 on non pc mode. I had madvr with different profiles but erased them. I do get banding present. I'll try the suggestion but should I do my bit depth on auto, 8 or 10?

If you've used potplayer theres a video setting on "levels/offset" and "colorspace" theres a setting there for ycbcr on full or limited and ycbcr/rgb conversation on limited, full as well. Also theres a input output of 0-255 or 16-235. My question is would those matter in the conversions formula or does lav filter override it?

I also like the soap opera effect with the smooth motion, will that affect it, I want my playback to be smooth @ 60fps. The scaling on my madvr was that it upscales 720, 1080 all to 4k fyi

Magik Mark

17th January 2020, 00:12

you could use hardware decoding which ignores this option.

Mine is set to D3D 11. Is that software? Gives the best image so far

VBB

17th January 2020, 00:20

@Magik Mark - D3D11 is video card hardware decoding, so that's fine. You'd only be using software aka CPU if it was set to "None".

@Teddy_McFluff - You could try YCbCr as described on the previous page to get rid of pretty much all banding. I don't know much about PotPlayer, so I can't help you there, but you'll probably be fine just by setting madVR to 0-255 and 10-bit. I'm guessing by soap opera effect you do in fact not mean madVR's smooth motion, but rather the TV's motion interpolation. If you prefer that, then you cannot use smooth motion at the same time. You'd be better off sticking with frame rate switching.

corporalgator

18th January 2020, 19:38

I've been reading through the thread and I'm bit a confused. I want an Oled and will probably go with a C9 as the B9 seems to have more banding issues. I prefer Madvr @60 with smooth motion for all content.

Once nvidia releases their firmware update for my rtx2070 to do 4k@120 via hdmi 2.1, will the C9 be able to handle that? Will it even matter for watching madvr content? Would I be able to run at 24/23p via madvr switching with smooth motion off to activate the 120hz on the tv and not have to do turn on any true cinema or other BS and would that be better than using smooth motion at 60 hz? Thanks for the help!

Asmodian

18th January 2020, 21:05

Yes, the C9 is the TV that firmware update is for, if it really happens (where did you hear that it would?). Smooth motion is better at 120 Hz, so it would be helpful.

No, 24/23p input would not activate the 120Hz on the TV with all the BS off. I don't like my C9 with everything off and 23p input, 60p with smooth motion is better in my opinion.

This is for SDR in PC mode (444 chroma) which the highest quality option for SDR with madVR, also sending YCbCr 444 limited from the GPU with full range RGB from madVR. For HDR you need to set the HDMI port to the default or home theater (422 chroma) and then you can send YCbCr 422 10 bit from the GPU, though the quality difference from 8 bit YCbCr 444 is not significant, if it is actually better. Personally I always send YCbCr 444 and only change the HDMI port label on the TV when switching between SDR and HDR.

QBhd

19th January 2020, 01:01

On my C8 (not much different from a C9)… I go the other way. I don't switch anything. I leave the TV on the "normal" HDMI setting, GPU is Full RGB 8-bit, and madVR is set to 10 Bit (to make sure HDR is enabled when needed). In this scenario, only the TV is doing something behind madVR's back. And this is un-avoidable at the moment since PC mode for HDMI on LG is seriously borked with horrible banding.

QB

Asmodian

19th January 2020, 01:29

My C9 has very minimal banding in PC mode with YCbCr 444 limited input. It looks as good as the default HDMI mode, not actually perfect but very good. I think this was improved on the C9 because this is not true on my C7. I really hate subsampled chroma so discovering the C9 could do banding free 444 with YCbCr limited was a great discovery. PC mode still fails hard with HDR tone mapping so I have to change modes. :(

My GPU does not need 10 bit input to use HDR so I leave madVR on 8 bit.

If banding is the same it is hard to argue that letting the TV subsample the chroma is ideal.

mark0077

19th January 2020, 01:50

How do you think we can give the feedback to LG on the issues we see with PC mode and banding. I see Vincent from HDTVTest recently saying LG seem to listen to a lot of reviewers like him and make fixes based on feedback, but I assume that's all in non PC mode. It would be great if someone like Vincent included PC mode in his reviews and gave the feedback there also.

SamuriHL

19th January 2020, 03:22

I have another 3 years before I'll even consider a new TV. While my C8 isn't ideal, they've not fixed enough to warrant another 2-3k purchase for nominal gains. The 2020 models look like they're rebranded model names. The Calman guys posted some screen shots of some of the new options they're going to be able to tweak. Essentially they now have full control over calibrating SDR/HDR/DV. Must be nice. LOL Still, it'd be nice to see how these new ones stack up in PC mode.

Asmodian

19th January 2020, 03:53

The 48" CX looks very nice to me. I will be ordering one as soon as available. Turns out the C9 was a bad investment, a great screen but while VRR is nice I will have never run it at 120 Hz before I replace it. :o

I will report back how it works. I hope that moving the HDR tone mapping, and all their talk about low latency HDR gaming, will also result in the HDR tone mapping being the same in PC and non-PC modes. I also want the better PPI so the update is still worth it if not. HDR gaming on the C9 and earlier is pretty poor though, either high latency and 422 or bad tone mapping so if they fixed that maybe they fixed PC mode? :(

I don't know how we could really get LG attention on PC mode. I think it would take a popular reviewer testing it in a public way. I have been surprised that Vincent does not mention chroma sampling or anything about PC mode, only because of gaming. Traditionally people who cared about calibrations and maximum quality did not play video games and all other content is already subsampled so I suppose professional calibrators don't normally worry about it. madVR, and the idea of quality chroma upscaling, is still a very niche concern.

SamuriHL

19th January 2020, 04:12

I'll be choosing my next panel very carefully. Given that I've already gone 4K with the HDR formats I care about, the next one will have to hit ALL checkboxes for me before it becomes worth it. I couldn't care less about 8k as I think that's more than a few years off before it becomes "real" in any sense of the word. But 4K 120Hz, low latency, higher NIT support, etc....that could be fun. Give me a panel that hits 4000 nits with all the bells and whistles and now we're talking. :D

Asmodian

19th January 2020, 05:01

I hope nothing temps me after the CX until microLED comes out but it seems unlikely given my lack of self control with displays. :o

I was not thinking my C9 would last until microLED but now it seems possible. OLED is not a great 10 year display tech but reasonably priced 4K microLED displays actually seem possible 3-4 years from now. It could definitely be longer though, especially if OLEDs get cheaper to manufacture and/or there are unexpected difficulties in reducing the cost of manufacturing microLEDs. I think microLED is the only technology that looks promising as a replacement for OLED. OLED is already a nearly ideal SDR display technology as we wait for microLED and nearly ideal HDR. :)

chros

19th January 2020, 16:02

:) Here's Vincent's first look of the 48" CX (https://youtu.be/zRhd2Wsy6L0). And indeed the other guy is raving about the improvements made in gaming mode, but he doesn't mention PC mode at all. :)

mi3gai4rui4

19th January 2020, 18:01

Are these the settings people recommend for tone mapping HDR?
See attachment.
I'm confused why "color tweaks for fire & explosions" and "highlight recovery strength" can't be changed?

Klaus1189

19th January 2020, 18:24

Please upload on external site, like Google Drive, we can not watch the picture, see here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pTrta61IHFBhz2DEoC_GkWVzCsIOczAl/view?usp=sharing

SamuriHL

19th January 2020, 19:21

There are options in trade performance that will impact the tone mapping options.

SamuriHL

19th January 2020, 19:22

As for microLED I can only hope it's ready by the time I'm ready for a new display. Wouldn't that be nice. I love the C8, even with its shortcomings. I can live with it for a few more year if needs be.

Magik Mark

24th January 2020, 01:08

VBB

24th January 2020, 04:27

Are you talking about PC mode or normal mode? I don't use PC mode for various reasons, so 4:4:4 is not a priority. I tested every available combination, and 4:2:2 10-bit has the least banding of them all. 4:4:4 8-bit is a good option, but then you might as well use PC mode. In normal mode, I'd use RGB over YCbCr 4:4:4.

Magik Mark

24th January 2020, 11:49