"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[Ch3vr0n]

Since that forum isn't officially supported by the dvd ranger folks, that's imo not a credible source. Such statements only hold SOME credibility if they are posted PUBLICLY on the main dvd ranger forum. and not on a statement hidden from the public in a mandatory registration forum that's not officially endorsed. I wouldn't hold my breath over it.

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[cynthia_old]

Since that forum isn't officially supported by the dvd ranger folks, that's imo not a credible source.

They also sent out a mail regarding the current issue.

Update news on DVDRanger 5 and the DVDRanger Module

November 5, 2012

Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes we are reminded that we are only human.
Our sincere apology.
We underestimated the amount of work to change the entire core of the software in 30 days.

Please take note:
1.) There’s no cheating, lying, or trickster.
2.) The DVD-Ranger 5 is coming soon
3.) The Cinavia Module is coming soon

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new
“Albert Einstein

We are just a team of human that has missed a deadline.

We apologize again.

Your DVD-Ranger Team

Regards,
The DVD Ranger - Support Forum Team.

[SamuriHL]

At least they put out information. Those that pre-paid were owed at least an explanation so that's good.

[Ch3vr0n]

True, but shouldn't that kind of statement be publicly visible on the mainsite too. Cause it isn't and preorders were still possible ( checked last night).

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[cynthia_old]

True, but shouldn't that kind of statement be publicly visible on the mainsite too. Cause it isn't and preorders were still possible ( checked last night).

The same statement is posted on the products home page as a banner and also as a separate page.

http://www.dvd2hd.com/2012/11/05/coming-soon/

[Ch3vr0n]

Then they finally had some Denver and made a public statement. When i check Sunday night (sat on sun) they hadn't yet. Curious on when they'll actually release their "solution" to cinavia. I'll stick with slysoft though. :-)

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[Atak_Snajpera]

buying cat in the sack is plain stupid.

it is still a scam for me.

[setarip_old]

@Ch3vr0n

Hi! Then they finally had some Denver What does this mean?

[Ch3vr0n]

Meh autocorrection on a cellphone sucks at times. Was supposed to be "sense" ;-)

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[Ghitulescu]

Then they finally had some sense and made a public statement.

I believe it wasn't because of the "Denver" they had, but otherwise they could have been sued ... Not that this clears the scam, may be a clever advertising to get more money before they run ...

[setarip_old]

Based on what's been posted about this apparently non-existent software here and at other forums, I can't believe that there could be any other users still willing to make "advance payments" for it...


Regards,
The DVD Ranger - Support Forum Team.
Has anyone determined where these people are located?

[Ch3vr0n]

easy. The benefits of being a domain registrar ;) Knowing where & how to look ;)

registrant:
Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 0123140248
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA

Domain name: DVD2HD.COM


Administrative Contact:
Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 0123140248, dvd2hd.com@contactprivacy.com
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
+1.4165385457
Technical Contact:
Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 0123140248, dvd2hd.com@contactprivacy.com
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
+1.4165385457


Registration Service Provider:
FatCow, support@fatcow.com
888-278-9780



Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 10-Apr-2012.
Record expires on 24-Feb-2014.
Record created on 24-Feb-2010.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS2.FATCOW.COM
NS1.FATCOW.COM

registered through tucows


Raw Registrar Data
Registrant Contact Information:
Name: Robert Robbins
Organization: R.E.Robbins, Entrepreneur
Address 1: P.O.Box 1305
City: Montgomery
State: Texas
Zip: 77356
Country: US
Phone: +1.2817604151
Email: selectchoicedomains@gmail.com

Administrative Contact Information:
Name: Robert Robbins
Organization: R.E.Robbins, Entrepreneur
Address 1: P.O.Box 1305
City: Montgomery
State: Texas
Zip: 77356
Country: US
Phone: +1.2817604151
Email: selectchoicedomains@gmail.com

Technical Contact Information:
Name: Robert Robbins
Organization: R.E.Robbins, Entrepreneur
Address 1: P.O.Box 1305
City: Montgomery
State: Texas
Zip: 77356
Country: US
Phone: +1.2817604151
Email: selectchoicedomains@gmail.com

Billing Contact Information:
Name: Robert Robbins
Organization: R.E.Robbins, Entrepreneur
Address 1: P.O.Box 1305
City: Montgomery
State: Texas
Zip: 77356
Country: US
Phone: +1.2817604151
Email: selectchoicedomains@gmail.com


registered via domaincontrol.net

Anythin else i can do for you ? ^^

[setarip_old]

Nothing else, thank you ;>}

I just thought some of the posters might have a "need to know"...

[Ghitulescu]

Texas and Canada, but no Cayman Island?

[Ch3vr0n]

Texas and Canada, but no Cayman Island?

Well the thing is, that info only shows the data for the person that registered the domains. It does not show where their actual physical office is located. One can assume it is at one of those 2, because that person probably is involved with dvdranger in one way or another. It is no guarantee their office is located at one of those addresses until someone takes a trio to those places.

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[Reel.Deel]

Here's a google profile (pic included) (https://plus.google.com/113389693626517253523#113389693626517253523/posts) of one of the suspected perps.
Strangely, he also has www.hislovingkindnessministry.com (http://hislovingkindnessministry.com/hislovingkindness/our_mission.html) registered to him were he accepts donations. Hmmmm?

Montgomery Texas is about an hours drive from were I reside. I would drive by since I sometimes travel through there, but since it's P.O Box address, it doesn't help.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Strangely, he also has www.hislovingkindnessministry.com registered to him were he accepts donations. Hmmmm?
This looks like webpage made by 10 year old kid from 90s :) And those T-Shirts with that awesome logo....

[Ch3vr0n]

Montgomery Texas is about an hours drive from were I reside. I would drive by since I sometimes travel through there, but since it's P.O Box address, it doesn't help.

Well ya could send him a registered letter or something (which you have to sign for) to that p.o. box and camp it till it gets collected. Then follow the sucker to his real address :-)


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[cynthia_old]

DVD-Ranger 5 is released today.

This version contains the Interface for CinEx but not CinEx itself.

Looks like it's in progress. :)

[SamuriHL]

LMAO! That's awesome. LOL

[[SLiM]D12]

You know, maybe they really meant Halloween 2013 for their cinavia release?

[setarip_old]

(Just a personal observation) In light of all of the previous successes the community has had regarding any and all other protection concepts, it seems that after all this time, it may just be that Verance/"Cinavia" is invincible.

Of course it's possible that things are being worked on that I'm/we're not aware of... (If I understand correctly, the in process "Slyce", by Slysoft, will be a software-only player and will not do anything to make discs with "Cinavia" play on standalone players. If I'm wrong, by all means, please correct me.)

[Ch3vr0n]

You're wrong about slyce mate. That is exactly what it WILL do. Slyce is the bluray version of clonedvd. And i know because I'm the Dutch translator for slysoft and have access to a limited functionality copy. Check my sticky over at the slysoft forums in the high-defense software section and you'll see what em talking about. It will NOT handle cinavia on initial release, but it WILL handle it in a future version. The software player what your talking about is currently dubbed "SlyPlayer", not Slyce.

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[Ghitulescu]

Slyce must somehow disable/remove/inactivate the "marker". Otherwise it makes no sense.
I believe there is no escape from this trap. Of course the only solution is to avoid "cinavied" products, like we did in 2004 with Sony-infected CDs. Or to use cinavia-free playback solutions, which may exist now, but not in the future, as more and more we rely on HW decoding for most activities (a "hook" exists since the implementation of trusted computing platform - cinavia detection routine can easily hook-in to).

[setarip_old]

@Ch3vr0n

Hi!

That's precisely why I said, "If I'm wrong, by all means, please correct me."

Are you saying that "Slyce" will enable standalone Blu-ray players to directly play (Put the disc in the drawer of the standalone player) actual physical Cinavia-containing Blu-ray discs and/or physical backup copies? Is an additional program also required to first remove copy protection other than Cinavia?

For those of us who don't know, would you be good enough to post here (and/or provide a link) what "CloneDVD" and "Slyce" can/will do regarding discs that contain Cinavia (as it relates to standalone players)?

Am I correct in saying that "Slyce" has not yet been released and that it will initially be released without "Slyce for Cinavia" capability?

Thank you.

[Ch3vr0n]

Ok so here's the lowdown.

We all know it's a protection. The reason another piece of software is needed is because it's in the audio. Thus the audio needs some form of re-encoding to remove or make the signal unreadable/undetectable on backups. This is beyond the scope of anydvd as it can't re-encode and never will. That is not what it is designed to do. Slyce will enable IN A FUTURE UPDATE, the playback of ACTUAL cinavia "infected" backup discs as we like to call them. So yes slyce will enable the "direct play, insert cinavia disc into standalone" playback without triggering cinavia. If it's an orignal then you don't need to worry about cinavia. "physical cinavia containing blu-ray discs and physical backup copies are the same thing". As soon as you remove AACS cinavia can trigger.

What CloneDVD can do, well that can be found on the slysoft site. It's a simple shrinking tool but very nice one and easy to use to remove unwanted audio and/or subtitles. Since cinavia is now also spreading onto DVD i HOPE (don't know) that CloneDVD2 will eventually get an update to remove cinavia on dvd's too.

In short CloneDVD2 does:

shrink DVD9 to DVD 5
remove unwanted audio
create movie only's (if you don't keep the menu's intact)
simple reauthoring to remove trailer crap



What Slyce can do can be found over at my sticky at http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=53392. There you can find a detailed overview, along with screenshots and features of the things i could spot in the limited functionality. I'm waiting on a new build since there have been changes since the last update on that thread and translations will need to be updated.

In short slyce will do

Shrink BD50 to BD25, single layer & double layer DVD (it's unclear in my copy atm if that means BD5/9 and or movie or full disc conversion to DVD5/9)
remove trailer crap, unwanted audio & subtitles
conversion to MOBILE FORMATS such as .avi
and many more (like NATIVE processing of ISO's without even having to mount them. Just load em up straight into the program)

Think of it as an advanced version of CloneDVD2 and CloneDVD Mobile, all rolled into 1 but then for blu-rays. Guess that thread is overdue for a new update on the mobile conversion. i'll get to work on that update this weekend.

NOTE that this may NOT be the final GUI and not all currently mentioned features in my sticky over at slysoft are to be considered "final". They are all subject to change as i do not work for slysoft. I was simply given permission to create the thread to distribute information about it.


Again: Slyce WILL remove or disable cinavia detection eventually. It will NOT do this on initial release. Speaking of release, if all goes well it should (not the possible tense) before the year is over. So sometime in the next 5 weeks

[setarip_old]

Slyce WILL remove or disable cinavia detection eventually.I sure hope your statement proves to be true, as it's been my feeling since I started this thread "forever ago" that if anybody could do this, it would be the folks at Slysoft ;>}

[SamuriHL]

Slyce will eventually decode audio and remove Cinavia. However, the focus right now from my limited understanding is getting the base product out the door. Then the work on Cinavia will begin. So I hope people don't think it's going to be weeks after the release of Slyce that Cinavia support is added. My personal feeling is that it's going to take a while....measured in months or more AFTER the release of Slyce. Then again, SlySoft has surprised us before so who knows. That's just my uneducated guess.

[gearrob]

Would like to try out Slyce compared to the Cinavia module from Pixabyte.

[Ch3vr0n]

that will take some time though. As previously said. Slyce will NOT handle cinavia on the initial release. Eventually it will deal with it, just not right now and there is no timetable from slysoft on when it will. Cinavia just isnt widespread enough yet

[SamuriHL]

I don't think we'll see Cinavia support in Slyce any time within a year, but, again, personal prediction. I'm personally just waiting for Slyce itself to be released. It should be a very exciting product. The Cinavia removal will be icing on the cake.

[olyteddy]

Would like to try out Slyce compared to the Cinavia module from Pixabyte.
So far neither is available...

[Chetwood]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm using a mediaplayer like the WDTV, I won't run into problems since it ignores the Cinavia signal even if it's transferred to the MKV when ripping the movie from Bluray? Does anyone really think that there won't be any standalones that ignore the Cinavia signal?

[omegaman7]

It's not about ignoring. The devices that don't support it, simply aren't looking for it. Essentially, old technology is oblivious to it :)

[Ch3vr0n]

So far neither is available...



Yet the schedule for slyce remains unchanged from my insider info. I should be getting a new (perhaps final) build to update the dutch translation. For the moment, the timeframe is still before the year is over.

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[SamuriHL]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm using a mediaplayer like the WDTV, I won't run into problems since it ignores the Cinavia signal even if it's transferred to the MKV when ripping the movie from Bluray? Does anyone really think that there won't be any standalones that ignore the Cinavia signal?

Any device not licensed by the aacsla will not have the cinavia detection code. So long as it's not an officially licensed player it should remain free of cinavia.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[Chetwood]

Essentially, old technology is oblivious to it
Right. And what about upcoming media players like the rumoured WD TV Play (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1421755/official-wdtv-play-anticipation-thread)? I will b new technology and still ignore Cinavia, right?

[omegaman7]

My WD TV Plus did not utilize the cinavia detection scheme. I imagine they could update its firmware to accommodate such code. But I sold it, so there's really no need for me to worry about it now :p My LG BD player plays media files, netflix.com... there was just no need to keep it. Plus money was tight ;) I see no reason why WD wouldn't answer that question. People have a right to know what they're buying.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Hi! So long as it's not an officially licensed player it should remain free of cinavia.
Is there a current list of such players (hardware and software players)?

[SamuriHL]

I'm not aware of anyone maintaining a current list. There very well could be one out there, but, it's not something I've kept up on.

EDIT: The criteria, though, that you should look for is...can it play encrypted blu-rays? If yes, then it's licensed. If it can't, then there's no AACS-LA license involved and will not have Cinavia detection support. Most media players like the WD TV's, Roku's, etc fall into that category.

[Ch3vr0n]

There is a rather long one on the dvdfab site that lists alot of them and i think also which software based players.

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[Hookahice]

Can anyone confirm that Cyberlink PowerDVD 12.02118a.57 (current latest version) has Cinavia implemented within the player/software?
I tried playing "The Campaign" backup BD copy on it and didn’t get the message. Not sure why, it should have thu! I get the message on the PS3.
I was wondering if anyone here did indeed get the message on the PC (Using PowerDVD 12).
According to Cyberlink this version should already have Cinavia detection within.
The reason I am asking, I would like to run some testing by doing some memory dumps and further investigate some of the triggering mechanisms.
My first goal is to accelerate the triggering mechanism to be much less than 20 minutes. Would make stuff a lil easier/faster to debug.
It’s time to beat this stuff already – way too long they have gotten away. They threw us a bone now by putting it on PC software which is “easier” to reverse engineer than proprietary firmware on PS3 or certain Blu-ray players.

Let me know please...

[whurlston]

Can anyone confirm that Cyberlink PowerDVD 12.0.9369.1618 (current latest version) has Cinavia implemented within the player/software?

1618 is not the current latest version (as a simple check of their website would show you). It was released on May 10, 2012 and AFAIK it was the last version to NOT contain Cinavia.

There have been two updates since then plus at least one interim build:

1905 (Trial version only release?)
1905c: Released Sept 10, 2012
2118a: Released Oct 11, 2012

There have been mixed results with Cinavia and the 1905/c builds and I can't remember exactly which one contained Cinavia detection code. The 2118a build will definitely have it.

http://www.cyberlink.com/downloads/support/powerdvd/patches_en_US.html

[Hookahice]

Sorry for the typo. I meant to write that I have the most recent version of the software (PowerDVD 12.02118a.57)

I modified my original post with the correct version.
I would like to hear from anyone who has seen the message on this version which supposedly contains Cinavia. I know Cyberlink stated it should have it but I would like to confirm with those who have seen it while playing a Cinavia infected movie on this version of PowerDVD!

Thanks!

[SamuriHL]

I've seen it in 1905. I have no idea what version I have installed right now. I basically had turned the 1905 trial into a full version installer so I could use it to test Cinavia. I've not had ANY time to throw at software player Cinavia detection lately. TMT5 also has Cinavia detection but the way they implemented it is incredibly nasty. If you look at it, you'll figure out the details of what I mean and why it's not ever likely to be cracked. PDVD is much more....likely a target. ;)

[omegaman7]

I've seen it in 1905. I have no idea what version I have installed right now. I basically had turned the 1905 trial into a full version installer so I could use it to test Cinavia. I've not had ANY time to throw at software player Cinavia detection lately. TMT5 also has Cinavia detection but the way they implemented it is incredibly nasty. If you look at it, you'll figure out the details of what I mean and why it's not ever likely to be cracked. PDVD is much more....likely a target. ;)

They thought the PS3 couldn't be hacked. Humans make mistakes. They overlook possibilities. I guarantee there's a vulnerability. It just hasn't been found. I may just have to install it on a secondary PC, just to see what you're talking about :p

[SamuriHL]

They thought the PS3 couldn't be hacked. Humans make mistakes. They overlook possibilities. I guarantee there's a vulnerability. It just hasn't been found. I may just have to install it on a secondary PC, just to see what you're talking about :p

Have fun with that. :) They used digital signatures to sign all the parts of the Cinavia code so that if you touch any of it, the audio no longer works at all. :)

[omegaman7]

Have fun with that. :) They used digital signatures to sign all the parts of the Cinavia code so that if you touch any of it, the audio no longer works at all. :)

LOL, in any case, this will never affect me. Their only hope now, is a new medium, that has this "Super" protection. And even then, there are loop holes. This cat and mouse game will never end... ;)

[SamuriHL]

Yea, I hear that. I've been using J River MC18 for all my playback needs. Who needs menus and previews? :) Pop the disc in, hit play, main movie without having to fuss with it. What's not to like? :)

[omegaman7]

Yea, I hear that. I've been using J River MC18 for all my playback needs. Who needs menus and previews? :) Pop the disc in, hit play, main movie without having to fuss with it. What's not to like? :)

Have you never seen deleted scenes are gag reels you felt worth keeping? Trailers can be somewhat agreeable too. They remind you down the road, movies you've forgotten about :p

To each his/her own though of course ;)