"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[hello_hello]

I wonder which definition of "disgruntled" would be used by a disgruntled ex employee still willing to adhere to a NDA?

[Ghitulescu]

The NDA is signed before getting the position and its effects extend for a number of years after one quit his/her job. NDA is part of the agreement - no NDA, no job.

[hello_hello]

I understand what a NDA is. Maybe you misunderstood the question?
I wondered which definition of "disgruntled" would be used by an ex employee who's still willing to adhere to a NDA despite being disgruntled?

[rotty]

I understand what a NDA is. Maybe you misunderstood the question?
I wondered which definition of "disgruntled" would be used by an ex employee who's still willing to adhere to a NDA despite being disgruntled?


Your missing the most important point.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1513316#post1513316

[hello_hello]

Your missing the most important point.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1513316#post1513316

I did read it, and it's a valid point. However it doesn't explain the lack of logic used when stating a disgruntled ex-employee would only confine their degree of disgruntlement to within the boundaries of a NDA.

[Guest]

Discussion of NDAs and disgruntled employees is OT for this thread. Please take it elsewhere.

[derbeDeus]

To repeat myself.

You were referring to removing the watermark from the disc, I was referring to removing the detection routine from the device, which is much easier in the case of PS3.

[Ghitulescu]

You were referring to removing the watermark from the disc, I was referring to removing the detection routine from the device, which is much easier in the case of PS3.
Indeed, that's the second best option. Keep in mind however, that PS3 is a game console, and Sony can always bring new games, which would require a FW upgrade, which FW would in turn silently (this is a licensing requirement) slip the detection routine back. GAME OVER! PLAY AGAIN?
For a regular BD-player (or mediaplayer) the things are different, one can resist upgrading, and (unless they put the updating routines and the loaders on the disc itself - which is highly improbable) still be able to see the latest discs. If not, then anydvd/dvdfab will earn an honest piece of bread.

[rotty]

Well it’s a year now since I said watch the time line and not all the rhetoric.

We are still in the same position one year on as I suspected we would be with Cinavia.

[SamuriHL]

I don't know about that. It was heavily predicted, by myself as well, that Cinavia would be MUCH bigger than it is right now. We've got only a handful of players that support it...the biggest one being a game machine that's being hacked to remove the detection. The number of discs this protection is seen on isn't monumentally huge, either. That all being said, I guess you're right. Nothing really has changed both in terms of the number of players that support Cinavia detection and the players that we all use that don't. :D

[rotty]

I don't know about that. It was heavily predicted, by myself as well, that Cinavia would be MUCH bigger than it is right now. We've got only a handful of players that support it...the biggest one being a game machine that's being hacked to remove the detection. The number of discs this protection is seen on isn't monumentally huge, either. That all being said, I guess you're right. Nothing really has changed both in terms of the number of players that support Cinavia detection and the players that we all use that don't. :D

I didnt mean that only I thought or said it, just a statement.

Trouble is all those players that dont can be enabled as you know.

One of my players is a Panny BD35 that wont be able to support it but that wont last forever, and besides, I dont want this crap on my audio.

There is a slow but growing number of titles with this audio spoiling.

Nothing has changed with regard to resolving this either.

And I do think that your prediction is right, its just happening a bit slower thats all.

[SamuriHL]

I didnt mean that only I thought or said it, just a statement.
Trouble is all those players that dont can be enabled as you know.

There is a slow but growing number of titles with this audio spoiling.

Nothing has changed with regard to resolving this either.

Not the ones I use. :D In any case yes, I understand the point. Quite frankly though, I think that Cinavia removal isn't a high priority for companies like SlySoft and others who may have the talent to actually remove it. Yea, it's on a bunch of discs. Yes, a couple players detect it. But, compared to a protection like BD+ that affects 100% of their customers, Cinavia affects a small minority. And the effort to remove it is pretty large in comparison. What I'm saying is that I don't believe there's a huge incentive at the moment for these companies to bother. As we said last year, that may change. So far, it hasn't.

[rotty]

Not the ones I use. :D In any case yes, I understand the point. Quite frankly though, I think that Cinavia removal isn't a high priority for companies like SlySoft and others who may have the talent to actually remove it. Yea, it's on a bunch of discs. Yes, a couple players detect it. But, compared to a protection like BD+ that affects 100% of their customers, Cinavia affects a small minority. And the effort to remove it is pretty large in comparison. What I'm saying is that I don't believe there's a huge incentive at the moment for these companies to bother. As we said last year, that may change. So far, it hasn't.

Each time BD+ is destroyed by Slysoft, those disks are no problem. And backups made are fine.

Cinavia has NEVER been removed, not once, ever.

You have more faith than me in the powers on this one but I hope your right.

Id say, let the time line run another year and I predict we will be where we are now except a lot more titles with the pollution and still no resolve. By resolve I do mean removal of this crap.

P.S. I edited the post before this one just to add some stuff.

[SamuriHL]

You're correct that Cinavia has NOT been removed. I simply suggested a logical reason as to why. It's a minor nuisance but not a huge problem....right now. And has been that way for a year now. Yes, more titles are supporting it, but, not a HUGE amount. So far no players have been added to the list in months. Again, as you've pointed out, all this can change in an instant. It simply hasn't for whatever reason. Speculation on the reason goes from trojan horsing the players and flipping a master switch once they've reached critical mass to them having issues with false detection. Who knows? But look at it from a company like SlySoft's perspective....would you waste an enormous effort on defeating a protection that's affecting such a low minority of their customer base? Especially when you have other important things to work on like CloneBD and SlyPlayer? I'm just giving SlySoft as an example since I clearly use their products. I suspect the same could be said of MakeMKV and DVDFab...why put a huge effort into removing a protection that doesn't (yet) affect a lot of people?

[rotty]

You're correct that Cinavia has NOT been removed. I simply suggested a logical reason as to why. It's a minor nuisance but not a huge problem....right now. And has been that way for a year now. Yes, more titles are supporting it, but, not a HUGE amount. So far no players have been added to the list in months. Again, as you've pointed out, all this can change in an instant. It simply hasn't for whatever reason. Speculation on the reason goes from trojan horsing the players and flipping a master switch once they've reached critical mass to them having issues with false detection. Who knows? But look at it from a company like SlySoft's perspective....would you waste an enormous effort on defeating a protection that's affecting such a low minority of their customer base? Especially when you have other important things to work on like CloneBD and SlyPlayer? I'm just giving SlySoft as an example since I clearly use their products. I suspect the same could be said of MakeMKV and DVDFab...why put a huge effort into removing a protection that doesn't (yet) affect a lot of people?

Just one last point, although it is a low number of titles at present, its still very bad news if it happens to be a title you want.

[SamuriHL]

Just one last point, although it is a low number of titles at present, its still very bad news if it happens to be a title you want.

The caveat to that being that you have a player that cares. So yes, a combination of a disc you want and a player that detects it is indeed bad. "Dr, it hurts when I take a sledge hammer to my face." "Don't do that." ;)

[rotty]

The caveat to that being that you have a player that cares. So yes, a combination of a disc you want and a player that detects it is indeed bad. "Dr, it hurts when I take a sledge hammer to my face." "Don't do that." ;)

Its not just the detection of Cinavia, its the corruption of HD audio that is wrong.

If a player detects it or not its still there.

[Ghitulescu]

Its not just the detection of Cinavia, its the corruption of HD audio that is wrong.

No, wrong is the whole copyright issue. They should have not been allowed to implement persistent copy protection mechanisms when the copyright is ephemere (it lasts 95 years, but it will end one day). Once this was them granted, they could do anything they want.

[rotty]

No, wrong is the whole copyright issue. They should have not been allowed to implement persistent copy protection mechanisms when the copyright is ephemere (it lasts 95 years, but it will end one day). Once this was them granted, they could do anything they want.

A good point, the copyright is NOT infinate but is finite.

Ive noticed word is getting about re this violation of good audio, so that is good news.

[derbeDeus]

AACS Announces Schedule for the Inclusion of Cinavia in Blu-ray Disc Players (http://www.verance.com/AdminSavR/news/news_item.php?news_id=66)

[k-c-ksum]

can anybody actually here the infected watermark. If you wanted to try then checkout the Dutch release of Resident Evil Afterlife. Its cinavia free. Compare it to the the US release which is not.

[rotty]

AACS Announces Schedule for the Inclusion of Cinavia in Blu-ray Disc Players (http://www.verance.com/AdminSavR/news/news_item.php?news_id=66)

I hope nobody actually thought that studios would be paying a good deal of money to have Cinavia on their disks if players would not be enabled.

We are ALL whistle blowers re this audio abomination. I dont want this crap on my HD audio.

I have avoided any disk with it on. If we ALL did that, as we did with watermarked CD's, what do you think would happen. Same as it did for them, RIP.

KEEP WHISTLE BLOWING Twitter, Facebook, you name it, just do it. And make sure that you alert them to the devils Lilac logo.

[Ghitulescu]

Gosh, it's the studios those that insisted on having cinavia on-board.
Protected CD-DAs were never standard, and Philips retired their CD-DA logo. Now they learned from this lesson, so audio-impaired videos are standard, with a grace limit, to ensure "the public embarqued" = no turn back.

[rotty]

Gosh, it's the studios those that insisted on having cinavia on-board.
Protected CD-DAs were never standard, and Philips retired their CD-DA logo. Now they learned from this lesson, so audio-impaired videos are standard, with a grace limit, to ensure "the public embarqued" = no turn back.

Now come on Ghitulescu, are you seriously saying that if people didnt buy these disks they wouldnt change their minds.

They dont care about you, they dont care about me, they dont care about any of us or our rights,

BUT

They DO care about Money Money Money, it is the ONLY god to them.

[Ghitulescu]

Now come on Ghitulescu, are you seriously saying that if people didnt buy these disks they wouldnt change their minds.

They dont care about you, they dont care about me, they dont care about any of us or our rights,

BUT

They DO care about Money Money Money, it is the ONLY god to them.

That's the power of a monopol. Where are you gonna get those movies instead? From the [equal] heavily protected PayTV (cinavia is not a DVB/ATSC standard, but the studios won't let this happen, do they?)?

[rotty]

That's the power of a monopol. Where are you gonna get those movies instead? From the [equal] heavily protected PayTV (cinavia is not a DVB/ATSC standard, but the studios won't let this happen, do they?)?

I wont buy even if its a disk I would like. It wont take long if we do that for the impact on sales.

In fact it would be very fast.

We wont die if we dont buy into this crap and it sure affects them a damm site more than us.

Its only a movie to each of us, its millions of dollars to them, and as I said it will have effect fast.

[Andy o]

Let's have some perspective here. Blu-ray for all its crap protection, still remains the least consumer unfriendly (in terms of ability to be copied), AND inarguably best quality of the modern distribution channels (compared to, say, anything streaming or cable/satellite).

Also, CDs never had watermarks (in any significant scale, although I've never seen a watermarked CD either). The trouble with protected "CD"s was far more nefarious, and they got awesomely bad PR after the Russinovich "event". Watermarks wasn't at all the reason they stopped by and large selling those copy-protected "CD"s.

[rotty]

Let's have some perspective here. Blu-ray for all its crap protection, still remains the least consumer unfriendly (in terms of ability to be copied), AND inarguably best quality of the modern distribution channels (compared to, say, anything streaming or cable/satellite).

Also, CDs never had watermarks (in any significant scale, although I've never seen a watermarked CD either). The trouble with protected "CD"s was far more nefarious, and they got awesomely bad PR after the Russinovich "event". Watermarks wasn't at all the reason they stopped by and large selling those copy-protected "CD"s.


I don’t see the connection.

If we don’t buy something because, in this case Cinavia, it will have an effect regardless of what happened to any other media.

If Ford brought out a car colour that was unlinked and didn’t sell and they were being told that the reason it didn’t sell was the colour, they would drop the colour.

Sales are ALL.

[Andy o]

The connection is that if you're not consuming blu-ray because of Cinavia, you have more reason not to buy cable or Netflix or any other service, including those which sell downloads (not just VOD), cause they suck more regarding copy protection. Hence, my "perspective" comment. Or are you planning on just stopping video consumption, at least legally, or limiting yourself to OTA HDTV?

[rotty]

The connection is that if you're not buying blu-ray because of Cinavia, you have more reason not to buy cable or Netflix or any other VOD service cause they suck more regarding copy protection. Hence, my "perspective" comment. Or are you planning on just stopping video consumption, at least legally, or limiting yourself to OTA HDTV?


Hi Andy,

I think you are seeing my comments in extremes.

My point is that if we don’t buy the corrupted BD disks NOW, its wont take long for that to transfer into poor sales figures for Cinavia disks.

(Don't forget, Cinavia is affecting DVD as well)

When that happens we give them a massive dilemma, it will be costing them dearly.

I don’t see this lasting long if that happens but, I think we should stick with it for as long as it takes.

I think that if we all did this you would be surprised how fast the effect would be.

As for HDTV feeds, they are not what they should be in most cases anyway as im sure you know, but that’s another argument.

P.S. Ive heard comments from people I know about Cinavia that I wouldnt even expected to know about such things, so word must be getting about somehow.

[Andy o]

I'm on board with not buying, but that's because I don't buy movies generally and blu-ray is still too expensive (I mostly rent). I have the impression (not from anyone in particular, but from looking around the net) that Cinavia is annoying more people downloading illegally and playing through PS3 though, than legit users backing up their content. Regardless of the legality, people who download illegally aren't buying stuff anyway, so they can be counted out. Which leaves only the very small number of people that have the know-how to backup their content, and are not using an HTPC to view it.

[rotty]

I'm on board with not buying, but that's because I don't buy movies generally and blu-ray is still too expensive (I mostly rent). I have the impression (not from anyone in particular, but from looking around the net) that Cinavia is annoying more people downloading illegally and playing through PS3 though, than legit users backing up their content. Regardless of the legality, people who download illegally aren't buying stuff anyway, so they can be counted out. Which leaves only the very small number of people that have the know-how to backup their content, and are not using an HTPC to view it.


For me its not just the fact that you SHOULD be able to backup your bought media, its more than that.

Its the corruption of so called perfect audio.

Cinavia, and any watermarking placing info on the audio will effectively introduce modulation to the audio. This is true even if the info added to the analogue audio is digital in nature.

It is pure and simply WRONG on every level. Its above all wrong in principle.


Disk sales are a massive income for the studios.

UK Law is supposed to change, enabling you to legally backup you own media. I don’t know how true this is but if it is, it will be interesting, case against Cinavia. It may all be rubbish of course.

I think that’s the lot. Anything else will be going round in circles.

[laserfan]

Anything else will be going round in circles.D'ya think? After 55 pages I'm kinda dizzy/nauseated myself, to be sure. ;)

Watermarking might be wrong, but unless you can actually hear the audio corruption I don't think there's any way consumers are going to stop this (there just aren't enough of you rotty).

Back on-topic, I plan to keep a couple of very high-quality BD players in tip-top shape that will never "see" (hear?) the Cinavia protection, so I will always have a way to play my backups. Provided I even HAVE any Cinavia discs that I'll have to re-do (usually for subtitle or annoyance purposes) as at least to-date there aren't any that warrant this treatment (none I'd want to buy yet).

[k-c-ksum]

as i see it the only people its going to royally piss off is the piraters, those selling dozens of discs only to be returned by disgruntled purchasers. The end result is the piraters business dries up.

[rotty]

as i see it the only people its going to royally piss off is the piraters, those selling dozens of discs only to be returned by disgruntled purchasers. The end result is the piraters business dries up.

Now that I like. But I suppose, while I wouldnt buy a pirate disk, it did give the legit outlets competition and so probably in a sort of perverse way do us a favour on price of legit disks.

Have you seen that dreadfull film Battle Los Angeles, a mate has it, well listen to the radio broadcasts in the vehicles and the TV sound when they are watching the news items.

[setarip_old]

@laserfan

Hi! Provided I even HAVE any Cinavia discs that I'll have to re-do (usually for subtitle or annoyance purposes)

Please clarify - Are you saying that "Cinavia"/Verance protection affects subtitles? And affects subtitles even when using a standalone player that doesn't acknowledge "Cinavia"/Verance protection?

[Andy o]

It doesn't affect subtitles at all. You misunderstand whatever he was trying to say (I think he just likes to change subs manually sometimes).

[setarip_old]

@Andy o It doesn't affect subtitles at all.

Thanks for your input that restates our long time understanding here regarding what "Cinavia"/Verance does and doesn't affect.

And that's precisely why, however, I'm still curious to hear further clarification from "laserfan"...

[laserfan]

The only reason I backup BDs is to change their subtitles to make them readable on-screen, or because I can't abide by the adverts and trailers and warnings I have to wade-thru to get to the feature. No other really good reasons to bother with it IMO unless you have small, uncontrolled monsters with access to your precious discs. I do not.

[setarip_old]

@laserfan

Thanks for clarifying. (And yes, I do have to resort to backups, as it seems this generation of grandkids were born with permanently greasy hands and perpetual cases of "dropsy" ;>})

[SamuriHL]

The so called audio corruption angle is fine and all. It's ok if you agree on principle that they shouldn't be messing with the audio. I agree with that. HOWEVER, I would love to see a double blind test from an identical audio source with and without Cinavia and find anyone who can tell the difference. At all. I'm quite sure the number that could would be *EXTREMELY* small in the *BEST* conditions...i.e. extremely high end equipment in a lab. I see this audio corruption thing beat to death. I get it on principle, but, if you somehow think it's affecting your ability to enjoy a movie in reality, well, I find that highly suspect to be honest. Cinavia is annoying, it does mess with the audio for sure, but, I am doubtful that anyone is going to "hear Cinavia" in any meaningful way. I just want that to be clarified and understood. The objection is PURELY on principle rather than some real world "OMG they corrupted my audio and it sounds SO AWEFUL" level.

[Ghitulescu]

There are people still having DVD-Audios. These are watermarked as well. And as well, the encryption was broken, but not the "dewatermarking". DVD-Audio never left the blockstarts, mainly because of the SACD and CD competitors.
Blu-ray rapidly got rid of its main competitor. There is no [viable] alternative to HD content.
I don't think that any art collector objected to the artists' signature on the canvas, which signature however did not prevent the masterpiece to be copied (on a colour copymachine). Well, most color copymachines have a money detector subroutine though.
And boycotting the sales is a step and a measure. It's not the best one and it doesn't suffice.
I explained long time ago what the copyright is. I'll repeat here the essential: The copy right is a monopole granted to the artist by the state, in order to help him getting enough money to continue his/her creative work. Soon, this privilege has been accaparated by a new layer (the distributors). So, they don't create, just distribute, they don't die in poverty, rather they get the invested money within weeks. Yet they managed to extend their rights to 95 years. So, the state (us, the people) let them do this to us, the people. That's why I said to petition your local representative to protect your interest. There are countries where an intermediate layer (of a different nature though) could only be overthroned by a revolution, so powerful became these intermediars.

[curtis_mccauley]

I have just plowed through this thread. 55 pages. Not much left that I can contribute except the following link to one of the patents for Cinavia protection:

See here (http://www.google.com/patents/about/7369677_System_reactions_to_the_detectio.html?id=7c-pAAAAEBAJ).

[rotty]

I have just plowed through this thread. 55 pages. Not much left that I can contribute except the following:

1. A link to one of the patents for Cinavia protection. See here (http://www.google.com/patents/about/7369677_System_reactions_to_the_detectio.html?id=7c-pAAAAEBAJ).

2. At the end of the day, Cinavia will live or die based on consumer response. We can rip CDs and play them nearly anywhere only because consumers would not buy CDs that they cannot rip to their player of choice. Last time I looked, ripping CDs was "fair use" in the U.S. and a lot of other places.

As for me, I like to own the stuff I buy. So, no purchases of Blu-Ray Discs or DVDs for me if they try to take away my right of "fair use."

I think that what Ghitulescu says is interesting and right but does underestimate the end user.

Also, the point he makes re the fact that Copyright is not really protecting the maker but the outletters which I agree was not the Copyright intention as I undertand it.

What he also says re sustaining could also be right, BUT
if we do, then as you say, "consumer response" for ALL reasons, is the only real force.

We of course live in a capitalist system, and in such a system, us, the consumer, does not just have power, we have the ONLY power that really exists.

We have become, quite rightly as you say, used to being able to copy, and play, on any system, our bought cd media.

This is our hard earned bought media, and so of course we should be able to.

If we are not pirating, or doing ANYTHING that would in any way be frowned upon, then we should be able to do the above to our bought media.

I would agree that when Cinavia is inserted in distored sound that is part of some movies then it is hard to hear and really does not matter as far as our perceived quality.

Lets put it this way, there are some movies that it would be hard to include this without audiofiles having a go.

I dont have any answers, and the great thing about forums like this is that listening (should say reading) moulds our views.
Ive found my views changing. We should never be bloody minded.

[setarip_old]

You folks are really drifting Off Topic (Technical aspects possible removal of "Cinavia"/Verance)...

[Ghitulescu]

While I agree there's your topic, and thus you must know more than anyone else what you intended this topic for, nothing, neither in the title, nor in its first post, suggests that only technical aspects may be here discussed. ;)
In the end it's all about on how can we get rid of it, technically, economically or legally. I gave my opinion on all three aspects.

[setarip_old]

@Ghitulescu

My last post was not addressed specifically to you, so I can only surmise that you have replied due to some sense of responsibility.

You very selectively say:nothing, neither in the title, nor in its first post, suggests that only technical aspects may be here discussed. - as if your ongoing active participation in this thread, up to and including today, doesn't exist.


1) Surely you remember and understand the following moderators' admonitions and warningsin this thread :
Moderator posts:

#191 This thread is for discussion of Cinavia, not general discussions of copyright and DRM.

#447 Guys, please stay on topic.

#1039 This thread is for the semi-technical discussion of identifying Cinavia-infected audio and how to remove it once it's there.

#1056 Discussion of NDAs and disgruntled employees is OT for this thread. Please take it elsewhere.

#1012 Ghit and hello_hello, knock off the ad hominems or strikes can follow. Thank you.


2) Additionally, several times, on a member-to-member basis, I (and others) have politely requested that you and others should start a separate thread regarding your concerns about non-technical things Cinavia-related or otherwise - such as copyrights, nondisclosure agreements etc.:

My Post #440 (Plus reference to Post #1) I started this thread for the purpose of discussing the technical aspects of "Cinavia" and overcoming it, and not the possible legal ramifications, when I said:

"It will be interesting to see what others may discover when they test their backups of the legitimate commercial BluRay on more current equipment.

Therefore, I'd appreciate it if we could stay on topic in this thread - and perhaps start a separate thread regarding speculated upon legalities..."

My Post #463 @Ghitulescu

"Coming back to the OT..."

Yet again, please DO come back to my original topic (See Post #1 of this thread) - Overcoming CINAVIA

My Post #919 Certainly, your stated opinion that:

"Besides, the American movies considered here to be Blockbuster are generally made for an audience having a mental age of at most 15 years and lack scenarios (they copy European movies) - thus the decision is even easier to make. Other than special effects there's little else ..."

is not in any way relevant to the topic of this thread - and additionally, may be considered by some to be inflammatory...

Please be good enough to heed the post by moderator "foxyshadis": #1039 This thread is for the semi-technical discussion of identifying Cinavia-infected audio and how to remove it once it's there.

Thank you...

[rotty]

You folks are really drifting Off Topic (Technical aspects possible removal of "Cinavia"/Verance)...

Hi Setarip

Im probably the most guilty. Its just that I suppose we have sort of exhausted an amatuer technical solution.

Lets take movie only as our requirement with say DTS MA as our audio.

We sort of know the mechanics of the watermark. We know the solution is to detect and change the analogue.

This could turn out to be very destructive to the audio.

We know that IF we were sucsessful in that part, and we want to keep HD audio, then the only re encode option to us is to package the extracted 6 or 8 wav files to LCPM.

This would of course create a massive audio part to the complete stream compared to the original DTS MA stream.

This would mean compressing the video to a much higher level than would have been needed with say DTS MA.

I think that if you limit solutions to technical only then there will be few or no further posts, well with exception of repeats of so called solutions already discussed.

Trying to alter firmware in players is really not the soulution and has no lifespan.

[setarip_old]

@rotty

Hi!

Thank you for your thoughtful post/response. I think that if you limit solutions to technical only then there will be few or no further posts, well with exception of repeats of so called solutions already discussed. Then so be it. There's nothing unusual about a thread regarding a specific topic either coming to an end, or becoming dormant until NEW specifically pertinent information arises.

Once again, any of us, myself included, should feel free to start a separate thread or threads regarding copyrights, purchasers' rights or anything else that doesn't specifically have to do with technical ways of possibly overcoming "Cinavia"/Verance protection.

[rotty]

@rotty

Hi!

Thank you for your thoughtful post/response. Then so be it. There's nothing unusual about a thread regarding a specific topic either coming to an end, or becoming dormant until NEW specifically pertinent information arises.

Once again, any of us, myself included, should feel free to start a separate thread or threads regarding copyrights, purchasers' rights or anything else that doesn't specifically have to do with technical ways of possibly overcoming "Cinavia"/Verance protection.


Hi Setarip

Very true.

I suspect, like me, you are interested to see if the comercial players in this field come up with a technical soloution.
Its been very quiet on that front, but there is of course large incentive on their part to solve this, because, if Cinavia is rolled out in force, then it sort of makes their backup products less attractive to comsumers.