"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[rotty]

Yes, that's completely fair to point out. My method will only do movie only backups. The method for anyone wanting full disc backups is to create an ISO file (or rip to folder *IF* your chosen player supports that function), mount the ISO (if created), and open it with a *non-cinavia* version of a commercial software player like TMT, PDVD, or WinDVD. This is why I recommend keeping the old versions around in case you need them. That should keep you in movie heaven, with all the extras, for quite some time.

Hi Samuri

I only backup Movie. Do you convert to MKV rather than straight to ISO just to get rid of the BDMV overhead file size.

[SamuriHL]

Hi Samuri

I only backup Movie. Do you convert to MKV rather than straight to ISO just to get rid of the BDMV overhead file size.

That's correct, yea. MakeMKV, which I currently use, takes the streams as is from the BD and sticks them in an MKV container. This reduces the size quite a bit vs an ISO. Even vs a movie only ISO, believe it or not. MKV is a very efficient container. When I switched most of my ISOs over to MKV a long time back, I reclaimed many gigs of space in the process. The other nice thing is that because they are smaller and single file, they stream across the network like butter. :) So what I do is set up libraries on each machine in J River MC17, and then when I want to watch a movie or show, I open that up in theater view, select the one I want, and I'm off and running no matter which machine I use in the house. Cinavia never enters the picture at all for me in that case. I literally have to check the back cover to see if it has Cinavia on it. Or I guess I could try to stream it to my PS3 but why? :)

[rotty]

That's correct, yea. MakeMKV, which I currently use, takes the streams as is from the BD and sticks them in an MKV container. This reduces the size quite a bit vs an ISO. Even vs a movie only ISO, believe it or not. MKV is a very efficient container. When I switched most of my ISOs over to MKV a long time back, I reclaimed many gigs of space in the process. The other nice thing is that because they are smaller and single file, they stream across the network like butter. :) So what I do is set up libraries on each machine in J River MC17, and then when I want to watch a movie or show, I open that up in theater view, select the one I want, and I'm off and running no matter which machine I use in the house. Cinavia never enters the picture at all for me in that case. I literally have to check the back cover to see if it has Cinavia on it. Or I guess I could try to stream it to my PS3 but why? :)

Thanks Samuri

[SamuriHL]

Just as an FYI to others looking to "Cinavia proof" their library. My use of J River MC 17 is not required for MKV or disc playback. While I personally feel it's an exceptional piece of software and well worth the money, if you want to have a Cinavia free playback solution that can play from unprotected BD structures or MKV's as easily as MC17 can, you can use the open source MPC-HC. My recommendation is to disable all internal filters and instead install madVR for the renderer and LAV filters for splitting, audio, and video decoding. With that setup, you can use MPC-HC to open unprotected BD structures (disc, mounted ISO, folder) and/or MKV's with full bitstreaming capability and/or full decoding. (Caveat...DTS-HD MA decoding requires a DLL from TMT). This will never support Cinavia, and as long as you can remove the protection, it will play your content. It will *NOT* currently give you menus, so you are limited to using the title switching capability of your player of choice to play the movie and extras. But it's at least another weapon in the arsenal against Cinavia.

[rotty]

Just as an FYI to others looking to "Cinavia proof" their library. My use of J River MC 17 is not required for MKV or disc playback. While I personally feel it's an exceptional piece of software and well worth the money, if you want to have a Cinavia free playback solution that can play from unprotected BD structures or MKV's as easily as MC17 can, you can use the open source MPC-HC. My recommendation is to disable all internal filters and instead install madVR for the renderer and LAV filters for splitting, audio, and video decoding. With that setup, you can use MPC-HC to open unprotected BD structures (disc, mounted ISO, folder) and/or MKV's with full bitstreaming capability and/or full decoding. (Caveat...DTS-HD MA decoding requires a DLL from TMT). This will never support Cinavia, and as long as you can remove the protection, it will play your content. It will *NOT* currently give you menus, so you are limited to using the title switching capability of your player of choice to play the movie and extras. But it's at least another weapon in the arsenal against Cinavia.

Hi Samuri

I have an error when trying to update DirectX 2010.

Have you any knowledge re this.

[SamuriHL]

Hi Samuri

I have an error when trying to update DirectX 2010.

Have you any knowledge re this.

No, but, you should post it in the MPC-HC thread. I'm sure you can get it solved there.

[rotty]

No, but, you should post it in the MPC-HC thread. I'm sure you can get it solved there.

OK, must admit I hadnt looked to see if there was a thread re this.

Thanks

[SamuriHL]

With apologies to Setarip_old for going off topic but in the interest of people looking for Cinavia free playback:

MPC-HC: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123537
LAV Filters: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191
madVR: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

Hope that helps!

[setarip_old]

It's been about a week since I posted the following request:Has anyone confirmed whether playing an infected disc on a "Cinavia"/Verance-infected standalone player connected to an HDTV via either component or composite cables triggers the sordid protection?

I've got to believe that there's a member of the community who would feel good knowing that his/her otherwise frustrating "Cinavia"/Verance-infected standalone player was used to either easily (plug in a cable or two) refute or support this suggestion ;>}

[SamuriHL]

I don't have a way to test it as I don't have component cables for my ps3. I still maintain it won't work.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

I fully understand the majority opinion about this, but you never know (I keep harkening back to the SONY CD "Track -0-" debacle).

If nothing else, it'll be simple to perform the test and shouldn't take more than 30 minutes of standalone player time...

[xenex]

setarip_old-

Since the player itself, PS3, standalone, or whatever, detects the Cinavia audio watermark itself, it doesn't seem to matter WHAT the "video" output is at all.

A player of any kind using component or composite output just sends the video signal out. It doesn't even know if a TV or display is connected. Why do you think this would make a difference?

-xenex

[SamuriHL]

He just wants someone to actually TRY it to confirm what we think we know. I see nothing wrong with that. I'd have done it already if I had component cables kicking around for the ps3. In any case it's a pretty easy thing for someone to confirm.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[Ghitulescu]

It doesn't even know if a TV or display is connected.Technically, this is wrong. I can't say ALL of them can do this, I can only say a player can know this and several actually do implement it.

EDIT: Just remembered it -> wasn't supposed that the medium (the disc) should mandatory contain DOT (DIGITAL ONLY TOKEN) according to AACS agreements of 2006 and newer? In other words, the players that still have analogue outputs MUST NOT deliver usable analogue signals?

[setarip_old]

Could there be a light at the end of the tunnel (Not a train coming at us) regarding Verance/"Cinavia" and other types of copyright "protection"?

Read the Digital Digest posting at: http://forum.digital-digest.com/f145/mpaa-dont-rip-dvds-re-buy-videos-instead-95624.html

[SamuriHL]

Very unlikely. The exemption wouldn't preclude the studios from attempting to protect their content. If the exemption is granted, it'd allow us to bypass the copy protection for the purpose of "ripping" to make a legal, fair use, backup. It doesn't, however, give you the tools to do so or require that the studios make it easy for you to exercise that right. :)

[setarip_old]

@samuriHL

You've got to start somewhere, hence my question, "Could there be a light...".The first baby step, in what's described at that link, would be removing the cloud of (questionable) illegality from users' efforts to remove or circumvent copy protection. Who knows how far a genius like "LIGHTNING UK" could have gone, if he/she wasn't coerced into "retiring"?

The second step would be that the studios/MPAA/Verance etal could possibly be taken to task legally if, in defiance of such a ruling, they continued efforts to either create new or enhance existing protection schemes.

It would be supremely ironic if the eventual demise or circumvention of Verance/"Cinavia" (and other protections) proved to be not solely through the technical efforts of the Community but rather as the consequence of "THE LAW" as well ;>}

[SamuriHL]

Sorry, setarip_old, I wasn't trying to sound negative. :) It's a very positive development. I'm pessimistic that it'll be granted give the SOPA/PIPA/etc legislation recently brought through the US congress and senate. Still it would be nice if they would grant this exemption.

Let's talk about what happens if it passes because there is precedent here. A similar ruling was made for jailbreaking. And your assertion that "The second step would be that the studios/MPAA/Verance etal could possibly be taken to task legally if, in defiance of such a ruling, they continued efforts to either create new or enhance existing protection schemes." is completely and 100% wrong, I'm afraid. All it says is that users can legally jailbreak. That has NOT stopped Apple or Motorola or a myriad of other companies from putting technical measures in place to prevent so called jailbreaking. The same pattern will apply here. We may get the exemption which says end users may do it, but, it does NOT prevent the studios from putting technical barriers in your way to stop you.

So no, if you're hoping that an exemption means you can force them to remove it by force of the law, I'm afraid you are going to be incredibly disappointed.

[SamuriHL]

Please don't get me wrong. I'm HIGHLY in favor of the exemption being granted as it would give us the right to backup our movies legally. THAT is a VERY positive thing. The thing I'm pessimistic on is A) Getting it passed and B) Forcing the studios to stop protecting their media. That's just not going to happen. But, if the exemption is given, we can rely on companies to provide those technical solutions to allow us to exercise our right granted by the exemption. So still a VERY positive thing if it passes!

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

I don't want to really drift off-topic, but I have to address this. You say: pessimistic that it'll be granted give the SOPA/PIPA/etc legislation recently brought through the US congress and senate.As far as I know, ALL of that legislation has been shelved indefinitely - as a consequence of the "Petition the White House" procedure.

See the following: http://forum.digital-digest.com/f145/petition-asks-white-house-investigate-mpaa-bribery-claim-95582.html

[SamuriHL]

@SamuriHL

I don't want to really drift off-topic, but I have to address this. You say: As far as I know, ALL of that legislation has been shelved indefinitely - as a consequence of the "Petition the White House" procedure.

See the following: http://forum.digital-digest.com/f145/petition-asks-white-house-investigate-mpaa-bribery-claim-95582.html



I'm afraid not.

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/02/08/reid-sneaks-sopa-senate-82141/

In any case, I agree, we shouldn't take this further off topic. I only brought those up to show why I'm not optimistic for the exemption to be granted. I REALLY hope so. I REALLY REALLY do.

[Ghitulescu]

Frankly I don't see the connection to cinavia. Nor to its technical means for circumvention. But since it was brought by the thread starter it must not be off-topic :).

Cinavia is wrong because in junction with AACS (and it is) it extends "de facto" the effects of the copyright and ancillary rights forever, ie long after the legal frame allows. Then the inability to copy for personal use a cinavied material questions the legality of the copy tax on recorders and media. That has nothing to do with the internet SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and the like. Cinavia is not wrong simply because the internet lock will prevent people from downloading AnyDVD or materials under rule #6 :).

One thing is clear. People begin the realise the danger, now when they finally see the "blackout", like in the well-known story on boiling the frog. Before it was simply, they didn't care too much what laws and directive they implement as long as they could "hack" those DVDs and BDs in the darkness of their basement, like the Middle Age alchemists. Now those brilliant guys that made the copying possible were banished outside their reach, damn Hollywood. Now it's a fine time to kiss some a*** !!! :) But now an entire consolidated block of laws must be nullified, not just one.

[rotty]

Frankly I don't see the connection to cinavia. Nor to its technical means for circumvention. But since it was brought by the thread starter it must not be off-topic :).

Cinavia is wrong because in junction with AACS (and it is) it extends "de facto" the effects of the copyright and ancillary rights forever, ie long after the legal frame allows. Then the inability to copy for personal use a cinavied material questions the legality of the copy tax on recorders and media. That has nothing to do with the internet SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and the like. Cinavia is not wrong simply because the internet lock will prevent people from downloading AnyDVD or materials under rule #6 :).

One thing is clear. People begin the realise the danger, now when they finally see the "blackout", like in the well-known story on boiling the frog. Before it was simply, they didn't care too much what laws and directive they implement as long as they could "hack" those DVDs and BDs in the darkness of their basement, like the Middle Age alchemists. Now those brilliant guys that made the copying possible were banished outside their reach, damn Hollywood. Now it's a fine time to kiss some a*** !!! :) But now an entire consolidated block of laws must be nullified, not just one.

Hi Ghitulescu

Quote from your post: "the effects of the copyright and ancillary rights forever"

They could well argue that the algorithm(s) for current watermarks will be ignored by players that are updated in the future, i.e. each years older algorithms can be ignored by the players year by year in the future and will play as backups after that date.

Not saying that it will happen, but does get round the "forever" probelm for them.

[Ghitulescu]

Nope, this is exactly the same issue that the authors of time-limited shareware/trialware must face. How to be sure that disc A (a movie made in 1917 by Chaplin) those rights will expire say in 2027 can be copied and watched on the same device that should prevent the playback of a copy of disc B (a movie made last year) those rights will expire long after your player would have been "ecologically recycled", you know like grandma's gramophones :)? Do we need to buy players with various "end of intellectual properties rights" years? Like player A limit date 2012, player B limit date 2013 etc. ;) :)

This is our problem, not theirs. They locked everything, just to be sure: it's better to kill 1000 innocents than to let a criminal escape. As one can see, the lobbying is much profitable than being tipped at horse races or stock exchange, even than a Russian pyramidal money game. With a meagre contribution to the elections campaign, some may gain billions.

[rotty]

Nope, this is exactly the same issue that the authors of time-limited shareware/trialware must face. How to be sure that disc A (a movie made in 1917 by Chaplin) those rights will expire say in 2027 can be copied and watched on the same device that should prevent the playback of a copy of disc B (a movie made last year) those rights will expire long after your player would have been "ecologically recycled", you know like grandma's gramophones :)? Do we need to buy players with various "end of intellectual properties rights" years? Like player A limit date 2012, player B limit date 2013 etc. ;) :)

This is our problem, not theirs. They locked everything, just to be sure: it's better to kill 1000 innocents than to let a criminal escape. As one can see, the lobbying is much profitable than being tipped at horse races or stock exchange, even than a Russian pyramidal money game. With a meagre contribution to the elections campaign, some may gain billions.

No, player A, player B, etc all have the same expiry date for each year stamp of the watermark.

All players are kept up to date via F/W updates.

FOR EXAMPLE

You insert a disk etc,
The player says, this media has the watermark,
Is it trusred source,
NO,
What year stamp is the watermark,
Is that year now outside the protection.

If it is outside the protection then play without restrictions else mute after 20 mins (or whatever the restriction is).

[Ghitulescu]

There is no year in the watermark (there is however a year in the UDF fields, but who controls the info there :( for an original and for a copy :) ). I agree that the player can be "stamped" with a nonwritable/nonerasable year by FW upgrades (downgrades :)), again who controls this, but AFAIK the copyright holders managed twice to extend the term so I am pretty sure they won't accept this anyway.

[rotty]

There is no year in the watermark (there is however a year in the UDF fields, but who controls the info there :( for an original and for a copy :) ). I agree that the player can be "stamped" with a nonwritable/nonerasable year by FW upgrades (downgrades :)), again who controls this, but AFAIK the copyright holders managed twice to extend the term so I am pretty sure they won't accept this anyway.

You missed my point.

There can be any info they wish to put in the watermark modulation.

However, I dont suppose they do put date info.

That wasnt my point.

I was just saying that if they wanted a way out of the argument, re, "Copyright forever", then they easily had one simply by adding date info.

[Ghitulescu]

My two points were:

the studios want to have the IP rights as long as they can (and I've seen missing or even misleading infos on both media and internet) - a limit date set means it is set (written in stone), but maybe they manage to extend the terms to 350 years :) before the limit date set in the watermark so they have lost your (great)n grand son's money for the remaining 255 years
They cannot be sure who controls the date in the player (or worse, in a PC) - lots of people began refusing to upgrade, not for fear for cinavia, but because newer FWs have been proven several times to be worse than the precedents


The only solution is to attack the legal validity of their claims, and to restrict the term of copyright and ancillary to max 51.97 years (optimal 15) as Pollock said it in 2007.

[rotty]

If a user does not update the player then that is of course down to them and the blame for a disk not playing is down to them.

[Ghitulescu]

And still there are problems to be solved:

the same disc played in the US is ok, in Canada not - various countries with various terms
reissues of copyrighted works or extentions of term for a particular work - it happened several times with some movies
fair use issues where applicable

and last but not least, to keep the humour side

the studios must know beforehand when eg George Lucas will die (maybe they'll prepare the engraved grave in advance as well)

[rotty]

And still there are problems to be solved:

the same disc played in the US is ok, in Canada not - various countries with various terms
reissues of copyrighted works or extentions of term for a particular work - it happened several times with some movies
fair use issues where applicable

and last but not least, to keep the humour side

the studios must know beforehand when eg George Lucas will die (maybe they'll prepare the engraved grave in advance as well)


LOL, Quote from your post: The studios must know beforehand when eg George Lucas will die (maybe they'll prepare the engraved grave in advance as well)

The ingraving on his grave will change anyway, hes never satistifed and will have extra words put in that spoil it, then it will be redone in 3D.

But seriously, the watermark could have a unique number for each title. No date would be needed. The players, updated say each year at least, could hold the list of title numbers that could be played now (as copies) as copyright had expired.
4 Bytes each title would be enough, would give 8 character Hex (billions of numbers).

[hello_hello]

Sony seems to have forgotten Australia. :(

The rest of the world seems to have current Bluray player firmware updates to "Improve BRAVIA Internet Video connectivity"... oh.... and to add Cinavia.... but here in Australia we don't seem to warrant "Improved BRAVIA Internet Video connectivity".... or Cinavia.....

[diogen]

A nicely researched (doom9 forums including) summary article about (mostly) BD DRM protection with emphasis on Cinavia
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5693/cinavia-drm-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-blurays-selfdestruction
The best watermarking (from the Felten's SDMI challenge times) explanation I've ever read.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5693/xkcd_drm.png
:)
I didn't know there is (was?) an attempt to sue Slysoft in Antigua...

The one-liner conclusion (from the article) would be
We have seen that Cinavia is effective only in one piracy scenario, and that scenario is actually quite unlikely in real life.

Short and to the point.

Diogen.

[rotty]

A nicely researched (doom9 forums including) summary article about (mostly) BD DRM protection with emphasis on Cinavia
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5693/cinavia-drm-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-blurays-selfdestruction
The best watermarking (from the Felten's SDMI challenge times) explanation I've ever read.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5693/xkcd_drm.png
:)
I didn't know there is (was?) an attempt to sue Slysoft in Antigua...

The one-liner conclusion (from the article) would be


Short and to the point.

Diogen.


Yes an interesting artical.

Also interesting about SlySoft.


As ive always said:

We get what we deserve.

Dont buy Cinavia infected disks.

If we buy a Cinavia watermarked disk then we cannot complain about Cinavia, we cannot moan, winge, say a bad word. We are supporting it. We are making it happen.

[MRCOCOset]

(I am of Polish translated by Google)
WELCOME. I do not know if this has already been described in this thread. So excuse me if I repeat.
Inspired by that someone wrote above that the code is stored in the upper parts of the soundtrack I decided to cut the upper part of the path of CINAVIA film (for me CARRANGE with dts) from 48kHz to 32kHz (as in Divix once).

First I open MKV with DTS x64 media coder and the formation of 32kHz stereo MP3 file (2 minutes work at 3GHz 4 cores)

PS. You can also create .ac3 5.1/32khz

Second I open MKV with DTS MKVToolnix and add the path mp3 32kHz and delete dts. (MUX without compression)

Third It works! D5500 BD player does not detect CINAVIA

[Ghitulescu]

How is the quality of the sound in 32kHz?

[MRCOCOset]

So if you cut off a little treble. It's always a solution.

[diogen]

Personally, I wouldn't mind cut-off at 16kHz.
Statistically speaking, the majority at the age of 50+ won't hear it anyway (I'm one of them).

But I'm not sure that's what Cinavia is all about. From the linked article
...Verance's watermarking scheme involved frequency domain modifications, hiding multiple time-varying echoes. Note that the human ear is not sensitive to echoes involving speech and music where the delay is less than 50 ms. In fact, only echoes with a time difference of 100 ms or more become annoying. Verance's scheme involved echoes with delays varying between 0.5 ms and 1.75 ms, rendering them indecipherable to the human ear.
Doesn't sound like storing information in inaudible frequency range. And this was 10+ years ago.

BTW, what is CARRANGE? And what was the bitrate of the MP3 soundtrack?

Diogen.

[kalehrl]

BTW, what is CARRANGE?
I believe he meant the film Carnage.

[Big Vern]

(I am of Polish translated by Google)
WELCOME. I do not know if this has already been described in this thread. So excuse me if I repeat.
Inspired by that someone wrote above that the code is stored in the upper parts of the soundtrack I decided to cut the upper part of the path of CINAVIA film (for me CARRANGE with dts) from 48kHz to 32kHz (as in Divix once).

First I open MKV with DTS x64 media coder and the formation of 32kHz stereo MP3 file (2 minutes work at 3GHz 4 cores)

PS. You can also create .ac3 5.1/32khz

Second I open MKV with DTS MKVToolnix and add the path mp3 32kHz and delete dts. (MUX without compression)

Third It works! D5500 BD player does not detect CINAVIA

So, you actually done this yourself? Or is it a cut n paste job from elsewhere?

***EDIT*** Just notcied the date of this blokes post...............APRIL 1st :)

[Smoker25]

I bought a new BD player yesterday - Sony BDP-S780. I updated it to the latest firmware without realizing that it contains Cinavia and now I found out that it's impossible to downgrade to one of the previous versions.

I tried disconnecting my router from the Internet but it didn't help. Message 3 appears and the audio is muted either immediately or after 20 mins or so.

Do you guys have any tips on how to avoid Cinavia?

[Guest]

[Bump after approval from moderated posts queue. Note: our spam filter sometimes trips erroneously on posters with low post counts.]

[diogen]

Do you guys have any tips on how to avoid Cinavia?Since you bought it just yesterday, take it back.
If they don't have a no-question-asked policy, "invent" a problem...:sly:

Diogen.

[setarip_old]

Just curious - Does anybody know if the hardware manufacturers are putting "Cinavia" labels on their products?

[hello_hello]

Since you bought it just yesterday, take it back.
If they don't have a no-question-asked policy, "invent" a problem...

The player lists MKV files as a playable file type in the manual (at least my 480 does) and he wants to use it to play MKV files. If it won't play his Bluray MKV encodes because of Cinavia, the problem is real. ;)

I agree with diogen, if you can take it back and/or exchange it, it's worth a shot. It might already ship with Cinavia, but as Cinavia has only been compulsory for a couple of months, there's a chance the shop is still selling players with older firmware which aren't inflicted with it. Or there may be another brand/model which is Cinavia free.

I own a Sony player so I've been paying a bit of attention to their firmware. Please don't take this as gospel, but....
Sony seems to have forgotten Australia (where I live) and hasn't inflicted us with any new, Cinavia infected firmware as of yet. While the firmware is supposed to be country/region specific, each new firmware release seems to have the same version number regardless of region. The latest firmware release for Australia is M07.R.0579, dated Nov 2011. It's not advertised as containing Cinavia and it seems only to be newer versions of firmware released elsewhere which do (from Feb 2012 onwards). So basically if you can check the player's firmware in the shop before exchanging the player and it's using the above firmware, I'd be fairly confident it's Cinavia-free. Or alternatively see if you can exchange it for another Cinavia-free player, although it'd be a pity as the Sony players are otherwise quite good.

I guess the only problem is one day you may want to update the player's firmware to make it compatible with newer discs but if you want to remain Cinavia free you won't be able to. Unless you want to own two players (one with Cinavia free firmware for playing MKVs) it might pay to start looking at alternative media players for playing your encodes.

[hello_hello]

Just curious - Does anybody know if the hardware manufacturers are putting "Cinavia" labels on their products?

I don't know, but I'd be surprised. I'd have a similar question though.....
Does anyone know if are manufacturers still shipping models which were current before Feb 2012 with Cinavia free firmware?

Maybe it's too early to answer either question as manufacturers could still be shipping pre-Feb stock and/or shops could still be selling it.

[MRCOCOset]

I believe he meant the film Carnage.
1) yes film
2) max bitrate
3) so I

[diogen]

2) max bitrateMeaning what? 256kbps? 320kbps? VBR?

I'll ask differently: what was the size of the MP3 soundtrack file you replaced the DTS with?

Diogen.

[MRCOCOset]

Meaning what? 256kbps? 320kbps? VBR?

I'll ask differently: what was the size of the MP3 soundtrack file you replaced the DTS with?

Diogen.

CBR 320kbps or vbr max quality or ac3 5.1 640kbps

[CruNcher]

Something else might be not so oftopic @ all

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57404804-281/anti-sopa-internet-society-under-fire-for-hiring-mpaa-executive/

http://news.cnet.com/8618-31921_3-57404804.html?assetTypeId=12&messageId=12154966&tag=mncol&txt

either he saw the light @ the end of the tunnel or a very big number on a check that the advocate couldn't resist you decide ;)