"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[diogen]

If he's not a spy, he is going to be busy
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/06/mpaa_sopa_returns/
...bill currently being considered by the US House of Representatives could make the SOPA legislation look positively idyllic.

Diogen.

[CruNcher]

aha CISPA sounds familiar like the "Vorratsdatenspeicherung/Stock Data Recording Legeslation Act of the European Union" hmm i wonder who was the mother of which ;)

[Atak_Snajpera]

How is the quality of the sound in 32kHz?

i doubt that we will notice audio degradation in movies(explosions,shoots,voices...).

also mising 16khz could have been restored by algo similar to SBR in he-aac.

[rotty]

Wiki list has changed. Whats happened to the full list of Cinavia infected disks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

P.S. Seems to have been rectified.

[Big Vern]

(I am of Polish translated by Google)
WELCOME. I do not know if this has already been described in this thread. So excuse me if I repeat.
Inspired by that someone wrote above that the code is stored in the upper parts of the soundtrack I decided to cut the upper part of the path of CINAVIA film (for me CARRANGE with dts) from 48kHz to 32kHz (as in Divix once).

First I open MKV with DTS x64 media coder and the formation of 32kHz stereo MP3 file (2 minutes work at 3GHz 4 cores)

PS. You can also create .ac3 5.1/32khz

Second I open MKV with DTS MKVToolnix and add the path mp3 32kHz and delete dts. (MUX without compression)

Third It works! D5500 BD player does not detect CINAVIA

So......has anyone actually tried this yet, or is it just an April fool's joke?

[Atak_Snajpera]

i suspect that it was a joke. cinavia is suppose to survive even recording by cheap mono microphone. most of them can't record anything above 16khz (32khz pcm).

[Ghitulescu]

It might have some hidden truths. Did anyone really tested this claimed invulnerability against cheap mikes? Marketing claims like these have been proven false over time (do I need to remind you those surrounding the CSS?) ...
The mark is somewhere in the upper part of the spectrum, so cutting the trebles makes sense. How much is another story.

[Atak_Snajpera]

If I only had DVD/BD movie with infected soundtrack and proper BD-player with enabled Cinavia I would already be after intensive tests. ;)

[diogen]

cinavia is suppose to survive even recording by cheap mono microphone.I think that's true.
It was suppose to survive home camcording with Cinavia-infected audio in the background.

Going back to the original SDMI paper (http://static.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/sec01/craver.pdf) by Felten & Co. rebuts the inaudible frequency argument.
On page five it shows the difference between the original and Cinavia infected soundtrack in the frequency domain.
And the figure caption reads
A short-term complex echo. Above, the frequency response between the watermarked and original music,
taken over 1/50 second, showing a sinusoidal ripple between 8 and 16 KHz....
I.e. the echo ripple (Cinavia watermark) goes below 16kHz and well into speech frequencies...

Diogen.

[Ghitulescu]

The ideas of SDMI and cinavia are striking similar, yet the implementation details might be different. AFAIK SDMI failed some 10 years ago so its "technology" is frozen at ~2004.
All the details about cinavia are in the patents I put several hundreds of posts earlier :)
For technical reasons it must have only one max. 2 narrow spectra where the mark is to be found, otherwise the decoding part before finding the mark will incur too much technological costs (analogue or digital filters).

[MRCOCOset]

So......has anyone actually tried this yet, or is it just an April fool's joke?

no joke ... Everything works. Just try and convince people.:sly:

[Atak_Snajpera]

can you try with another cinavia infected movie. this might be just a lucky shot.

[MRCOCOset]

can you try with another cinavia infected movie. this might be just a lucky shot.

Jestem Polakiem więc piszę po polsku do Ciebie Polaku.
To nie był przypadek. Kolega kupił odtwarzacz BluRay Samsung D5500 BD. Zaktualizował w nim firmware. Pościągał kupę filmów MKV 1080p. Oglądał. W czterech filmach. "RZEŹ" "The GUARD" (STRAŻNIK) , "HUGO i jego wynalazek" oraz "Jack & Jill" zaczeły mu wyskakiwać wiadome komunikaty CINAVIA. Poprosił mnie o to aby coś z tym zrobić.
Więc. To już znasz:
"Zainspirowany tym że ktoś wyżej napisał że kod jest zapisany w górnych partiach ścieżki dźwiękowej postanowiłem obciąć górne partie ścieżki film z CINAVIA ( u mnie CARRANGE z dts) z 48khz do 32khz ( jak w divix kiedyś ).

1. otwieram MKV z dts w media coder x64 i nim tworze plik mp3 32khz stereo ( 2 minuty roboty przy 4 rdzeniach 3ghz)

2. otwieram MKV z dts w mkvtoolnix i dodaję ścieżkę mp3 32khz a usuwam dts. (MUX bez kompresji)

3. Działa !!! odtwarzacz BD D5500 nie wykrywa CINAVIA

Tak postąpiłem we wszystkich czterech filmach. I działa. Filmy przeleciały po 4 razy każdy i zero komunikatu.
Jakość wiadomo delikatnie obcięte góry ale działa.
Wystarczy spróbować żadna filozofia.
I pamiętaj , że zastosowałem format ścieżki .mp3 (mpeg, mpg) a nie jak piszecie coś wyżej o formacie PCM (np. wav) bo to różnica.

GOOGLE

I am a Pole, so I am writing to you in Polish Pole.
This was no accident. A friend bought a BluRay player Samsung BD D5500. It updated the firmware. Pościągał 1080p MKV movies pile. Watched. In the four films. "Carnage," "The Guard" (GUARD), "Hugo and his invention" and "Jack & Jill" began to pop him known CINAVIA messages. He asked me for it to do something about it.
So. It already know:
"Inspired by that someone wrote above that the code is stored in the upper parts of the soundtrack I decided to cut the upper part of the path of CINAVIA film (for me CARRANGE with dts) from 48kHz to 32kHz (as in Divix once).

First I open MKV with DTS x64 media coder and the formation of 32kHz stereo MP3 file (2 minutes work at 3GHz 4 cores)

Second I open MKV with DTS MKVToolnix and add the path and delete mp3 32kHz dts. (MUX without compression)

Third It works! D5500 BD player does not detect CINAVIA

So I acted in all four films. And it works. Videos flew after 4 times each and no message.
Quality knows gently cut the top but it works.
Just try no philosophy.
I remember that I used the format of the path. Mp3 (mpeg, mpg) and not write something like the above PCM format (eg wav) for the difference.

[Atak_Snajpera]

resampling 48khz to 32khz is not the same as cutting off only upper frequencies.
you should decompress dts to wav. Then open wav in audacity. remove upper 16 khz and save to wav again. compress that file to ac3 5.1 640kbps (48Khz obviously). this method will give better quality than yours.

original
http://i.imgur.com/SXDS2.png

now we apply low pass filter
http://i.imgur.com/uPPDq.png

and here is result
http://i.imgur.com/gqzPo.png

[hello_hello]

Could it be the resampling that stops Cinavia from working, rather than removing high frequencies as such? Has anyone tried this?

I was going to test it. I even upgraded the Samsung Bluray player (BD-C6500) to the latest firmware (dated January), but after the update it played Carnage with DTS audio from start to finish, so I assume the firmware doesn't include Cinavia. Australia seems to be getting left out of the Cinavia craze. Still no Cinavia infected firmware from Sony either.

[Atak_Snajpera]

If we only had software player which detects cinavia... I'm very interested how many "tortures" can cinavia survive ;)

[MRCOCOset]

resampling 48khz to 32khz is not the same as cutting off only upper frequencies.
you should decompress dts to wav. Then open wav in audacity. remove upper 16 khz and save to wav again. compress that file to ac3 5.1 640kbps (48Khz obviously). this method will give better quality than yours.

original
http://i.imgur.com/SXDS2.png

now we apply low pass filter
http://i.imgur.com/uPPDq.png

and here is result
http://i.imgur.com/gqzPo.png

After passing the path through the filter is slightly better than with resampling:

Orginal:

http://tinypic.pl/i/00181/ejkglncjkpz5_t.jpg (http://tinypic.pl/ejkglncjkpz5)

Resampled:

http://tinypic.pl/i/00181/cabbh6mu4qcd_t.jpg (http://tinypic.pl/cabbh6mu4qcd)

Low pass:

http://tinypic.pl/i/00181/ipco3cnert34_t.jpg (http://tinypic.pl/ipco3cnert34)

But is this method removes CINAVIA?
And after that, more work to get the output file without CINAVIA. The user has the choice of faster using "media coder" at the expense of slightly lower performance "mountains". Or more time-consuming but qualitatively better way to "LOW PASS"
Assuming that your thesis does. Do not check because I have at hand a colleague player.

[Atak_Snajpera]

it would be nice if you could verify whether my method realy destroys cinavia or not?

[MRCOCOset]

it would be nice if you could verify whether my method realy destroys cinavia or not?

Prepare a video of the path (low pass). And I will give to check the time.

[Atak_Snajpera]

tomorrow i will prepare few samples using different methods. for example
resampling to 32khz,40khz,44khz and then to 48khz

original to he-aac 5.1 and then to ac3

[IanB]

A thought, dropping the sample rate from 48kHz to 32kHz changes the Nyquist frequency from 24kHz to 16kHz. If the process does not low pass the source then aliasing may occur. A 16.5kHz signal will appear as a 15.5Khz signal. I imagine special signals with significant spectral elements around the 16kHz range are going to be quite spoilt. :devil:

[setarip_old]

A point of information - One of the four titles stated by "MRCOCOset" to have generated Cinavia messages, the "Hugo" ("Hugo and his Invention"?) Blu-ray disc, is NOT noted to have Cinavia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

[omegaman7]

Perhaps certain regions of "Hugo" have it? Universal has had a few select releases with Cinavia.

[setarip_old]

@omegaman7

I have found NO indication anywhere that "Hugo" for ANY region contains Cinavia protection...

[omegaman7]

Interesting. I wonder if his listing "Hugo" as a sample of cinavia, was an oopsy LOL! Perhaps Hugo was simply on his mind when he was listing the titles he tested ;)

[xenex]

Just to quickly note - That Wikipedia page on which movies contain Cinavia is not completely accurate, for example I can tell you that the DVD releases of 'The Social Network' and 'The Adventure of Tintin' DO NOT contain Cinavia. If you have these DVDs you can check for yourself. Neither one has the required AACS folder on the disk. People post inaccurate things on Wikipedia all the time, sigh...

I find that the DVDFab list here:

http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

Is more accurate (100% so, I believe) is updated regularly, and includes more info including Studio name & etc....

-xenex

EDIT: I am not affiliated with DVDFab in any way, I just find that list a MUCH better source of info on what releases contain Cinavia.

[Atak_Snajpera]

I would like to ask people who own Playstation 3 (with latest firmware) or BD-player with cinavia enabled firmware to test these samples.

DO NOT REWIND WHILE PLAYING!

ORIGINAL
AC3 file (provided by user watermarking from videohelp.com)
http://paste2.org/p/1981582

Attack method: Resampling
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27599202/Cinavia-Resampling_32khz.7z
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27599202/Cinavia-Resampling_40khz.7z
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27599202/Cinavia-Resampling_44khz.7z

Attack method: Low Pass Filter 16khz
file will be uploaded tomorrow

Attack method: HE-AAC 320kbps
file will be uploaded tomorrow

[SamuriHL]

Grabbing the 32 and 40 samples now. I don't believe 44 will make a difference as I resampled when i made my test file that I use to test players with. My personal feeling is that resampling will not solve this particular issue. Will have the results of these files in a while.

EDIT: I can't get my PS3 to play that file and don't have a lot of time to mess with it right now. Hopefully someone else can look at it.

[b66pak]

@Atak_Snajpera ps3 don't have support for he-aac...
_

[Atak_Snajpera]

i meant original to he-aac and then to ac3.

[SamuriHL]

I tried making an AVCHD out of the 32 sample and putting it on a memory stick but my PS3 is being stubborn about reading it. Oh wait....I may know why. Do they need to be in a video sub-folder on the ps3?

[Atak_Snajpera]

maybe multiavchd could help.

[SamuriHL]

No, it was just what I said. The PS3 requires a VIDEO folder. Now I can play the file directly and/or the AVCHD I made. So it's running now. I'll see how it goes.

[SamuriHL]

32Khz sample at 21:18 triggers the Cinavia content message code 3.

[setarip_old]

@xenex

Hi!

1) As I said in my earlier post, I was unable to find an indication ANYWHERE of a "Hugo" BD containing Cinavia protection - including the DVDFab listings

2) You state, "I can tell you that the DVD releases of 'The Social Network' and 'The Adventure of Tintin' DO NOT contain Cinavia. If you have these DVDs you can check for yourself. Neither one has the required AACS folder on the disk." You may or may not be correct. Also noted (by an asterisk) in the DVDFab listings is the fact that, although a U.S. release may contain Cinavia protection, releases for other regions by different studios (Warner, Universal, etc.) may not contain Cinavia.

BTW - It appears that the source material used by "MRCOCOset" may be "cams" and/or other non-original, commercial discs - which might explain why his/her "Hugo" contains Cinavia protection...(Reference to this appears to have been deleted)

[xenex]

setarip_old-

No disagreement from me. I also was unable to find any use of Cinavia on the "Hugo" movie, either BD or DVD. I believe as you do that poster "MRCOCOset" is talking about "camrip" files. That's a whole other issue than official BD or DVD releases.

As for 'The Social Network' and 'The Adventure of Tintin' DVDs, mine do NOT have the required AACS folder. People in other regions are free to check their disks for the presence of such. I speak only for myself. I personally believe that only the seven DVD releases listed on the DVDFab list above contain Cinavia.

And technically, I just don't see this re-sampling working to remove Cinavia. There are two aspects to any audio. The "Frequency Domain" - call it X, and the "Time Domain" - call it Y. Cinavia is primarily in Y. The "Time Domain." Short term, spread spectrum echoes. It's not just a "tone" or "frequency" to remove. It's tiny echoes over the entire audio spectrum.

-xenex

[SamuriHL]

Somewhere tin tin contains cinavia because the samples posted are from a DVD copy of it...audio only of course. And the resampled version I grabbed and tested tripped cinavia message 3, which as we know only shows up on commercial discs. In any case I didn't believe resampling would work either as I did plenty of that on the losers. Changing formats, resampling, removing channels...none of that affects cinavia. Still it was easy enough to try.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[Atak_Snajpera]

Last attempt
AC3 -> HE-AAC 192kbps -> AC3 192kbps
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27599202/00000.7z

[CruNcher]

Atak just a question did you removed the previous files or did dropbox ?

[marcusj0015]

@SamuriHL

Hi! In addition to your PS3, did you try playing this on a (any) standalone BluRay player(s)?

1) It would be a good idea for someone to try a BD-RB-compressed version on PS3s and standalones (As I stated, my equipment predates the protection). Although the audiostream(s) would be unaltered, it would be interesting to see whether the changed correlation to videoframes might impact the watermark detection.

2) As a point of information, I did not hear or see anything unusual at the 20:03 point when playing back the video on my equipment - so I'd guess that customer complaints about the protection "interfering" with or diminishing playback quality for ALL players would fall on deaf ears.

3) Did anyone else notice a strange visual glitch at somewhere around the 9:30 mark of the movie. As the helicopter rises, a 2 dimensional green graphic appears briefly and seems to be "pulled up" to the helicopter. I woder if this could possibly have something to do with the protection...

What if you changed the Original Lossless audio track timecode from 23.967 to 24 and did the same to the video to keep it in sync, would that work?

And if that dosen't work, we need to stop fooling around and build an app that will download a list of movies with a list of each and every Cinavia beep, and remove them from the audio.

There are two ways we can do that, we can either analyze each track the whole time and find out if the beeps are systematic, if they are, we can choose to only include the original beep time code and the frequency of the beeps, to save time.

[setarip_old]

@marcusj0015

Hi!

If you read this entire thread, rather than making suggestions based on one of the earliest posts that I made to this thread, you'd find that your suggestion (and several varieties of it) has already been attempted and failed...

[marcusj0015]

@marcusj0015

Hi!

If you read this entire thread, rather than making suggestions based on one of the earliest posts that I made to this thread, you'd find that your suggestion (and several varieties of it) has already been attempted and failed...

Oh, Sorry, there's 84 pages in this thread, and that's a tall order. no need for the tone though.

[simplepinoi177]

I actually had done Atak_Snajpera method on the TS version of 21 Jump Street...

There are other similar methods floating around the web-o-sphere and only one I have found that wouldn't render movies unwatchable and is a perfect substitute (only a true videophile/audiophile would tell the difference but only when comparing the cinavia and non-cinavia copy)

[dbcooper]

Well, spill the beans ...

[rotty]

Wiki seems to have stopped listing BD/DVD with Cinavia pollution.

Saw this link on Slysoft forum site which lists media with Cinavia so posting it here for those interested:

http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

[db1280]

Rather than remove cinavia, is it possible to add in the watermark a a second time, offset by a half or quarter of the wave frequency, so that it is not detected? Sorry if this has already been suggested..

Err, it has....#642 and others...

[db1280]

Have there been any downloaded firmware updates for anything besides the PS3 that has introduced cinavia?

[hello_hello]

Have there been any downloaded firmware updates for anything besides the PS3 that has introduced cinavia?

Many Bluray players have had firmware updates which include Cinavia. Sony, at least, seems to be letting people know Cinavia is included when downloading a firmware update from their website. I'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing that.

[db1280]

Many Bluray players have had firmware updates which include Cinavia. Sony, at least, seems to be letting people know Cinavia is included when downloading a firmware update from their website. I'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing that.

Are the firmware updates impenetrable?
Or can they be pulled apart and reverse engineered, especially when they go from no-Cinavia to with-Cinavia?

[omegaman7]

A sophisticated hex editor perhaps... and some know how.