"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[tripmaster]

@fengtao, thanks for your work.

It doesnt seem yet possible to compress a BD rip to a file that can be played on a handheld device or stored (economically) on the PS3 HD, does it?

-trippy

Hi dvgeek,

BD-9/5 is DVD media, not Blu-ray media, so it cannot be burnt as BDMV-REC, since it doesn't support AACS auth.

We are checking it we can burn it as AVCREC now.

Best Regards,
Fengtao

[setarip_old]

@tripmaster

Hi!

Your post doesn't seem to have anything to do with the topic of this thread, which is, "'Cinavia'/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection"

[tripmaster]

Isn't the question of being able to compress and archive Cinavia protected discs relevant? I am not storing 20gb archives on my PS3...


@tripmaster

Hi!

Your post doesn't seem to have anything to do with the topic of this thread, which is, "'Cinavia'/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection"

[setarip_old]

@tripmaster

Your QUESTION makes no reference to Cinavia: It doesnt seem yet possible to compress a BD rip to a file that can be played on a handheld device or stored (economically) on the PS3 HD, does it?
In fact, as has been posted from virtually the beginning of this thread, there is absolutely no problem in compressing a "Cinavia"-infected Blu-ray disc - and, presently, such a backup would be playable on virtually any (with rare exception) hardware device except PS3s with firmware updates newer than v.3.15...

[tripmaster]

But also acknowledged here that the PS3 is one of the most prevalent BR devices here. I'd love to hear whether there's a solution in the works that addresses compressed MP4 videos from my BR master that is playable on the PS3.

Apologies, I should have made it more clear - Cinavia protected discs, compressed for archive/playback on a PS3 via something like TVersity.

trippy

@tripmaster

Your QUESTION makes no reference to Cinavia:
In fact, as has been posted from virtually the beginning of this thread, there is absolutely no problem in compressing a "Cinavia"-infected Blu-ray disc - and, presently, such a backup would be playable on virtually any (with rare exception) hardware device except PS3s with firmware updates newer than v.3.15...

[SamuriHL]

But also acknowledged here that the PS3 is one of the most prevalent BR devices here. I'd love to hear whether there's a solution in the works that addresses compressed MP4 videos from my BR master that is playable on the PS3.

Apologies, I should have made it more clear - Cinavia protected discs, compressed for archive/playback on a PS3 via something like TVersity.

trippy

The only way to do that is to remove Cinavia from the audio track. That hasn't been done to date. The method DVDFab uses adds AACS encryption to a BD disc structure. This puts the backup in the TRUSTED_SOURCE list and Cinavia doesn't get triggered. If you remove that AACS layer, Cinavia's going to get triggered no matter what container you put it in, and no matter how you compress it. To do what you want you simply MUST remove the Cinavia signal or somehow disrupt it by modifying it.

[tripmaster]

The only way to do that is to remove Cinavia from the audio track. That hasn't been done to date. The method DVDFab uses adds AACS encryption to a BD disc structure. This puts the backup in the TRUSTED_SOURCE list and Cinavia doesn't get triggered. If you remove that AACS layer, Cinavia's going to get triggered no matter what container you put it in, and no matter how you compress it. To do what you want you simply MUST remove the Cinavia signal or somehow disrupt it by modifying it.

Right - that's what I was hoping to hear that fengtao's working on...

[rotty]

Right - that's what I was hoping to hear that fengtao's working on...

Absloutley right.
Forget about TRUSTED_SOURCE and alike, if you have optical burned media with Cinavia left within the audio then you are asking to have it come back and BITE you at some point in the future, even if it is classed as TRUSTED_SOURCE (AACS) at the moment.

Domestic burned media with a comercial watermark could so easily be classed as NON TRUSTED_SOURCE anyway.
Dont rely on legal aspects of this, IT MUST BE REMOVED.

[SamuriHL]

I only know of one company that's actively working on removal. SlySoft has stated that is their goal. I can't speak to what Fengtao is working on. But from what I understand, it's going to take a lot of work to remove the signal without destroying the audio. Definitely a challenging and daunting task for anyone.

[Ghitulescu]

The method DVDFab uses adds AACS encryption to a BD disc structure. This puts the backup in the TRUSTED_SOURCE list and Cinavia doesn't get triggered. If you remove that AACS layer, Cinavia's going to get triggered no matter what container you put it in, and no matter how you compress it.

Absloutley right.
Forget about TRUSTED_SOURCE and alike, if you have optical burned media with Cinavia left within the audio then you are asking to have it come back and BITE you at some point in the future, even if it is classed as TRUSTED_SOURCE (AACS) at the moment.
I see the things a bit differently. Of course a method to remove CINAVIA is highly desirable. However, considering the reasons one backups his/her BDs (I mean here legally) the solution of FengTao is a welcomed intermediate step - who knows, until the full cinavia removal would be possible the original get scratched beyond repair.

[SamuriHL]

I see the things a bit differently. Of course a method to remove CINAVIA is highly desirable. However, considering the reasons one backups his/her BDs (I mean here legally) the solution of FengTao is a welcomed intermediate step - who knows, until the full cinavia removal would be possible the original get scratched beyond repair.

I wasn't trying to discount that method. That's not what we were discussing at all. The question was whether or not Fengtao is working on a way to make other types of backups that work. The only way, at the moment, to make ANY working backup is Fengtao's backup method. But for that to work, it requires a BD structure that's AACS encrypted. We were discussing what would be required to have a file that can be streamed to the PS3 through something like TVersity.

[pepelugil]

Hi,

My technical knowledge is practically zero, but if I not wrong after reading this thread, right now the only way to bypass (not eliminate) Cinavia protection is creating a disk with AACS.

As you can read here: http://www.spreadmyfiles.com/files/LCHFBZVM/data_protection.pdf , Sonic Scenarist has the option to encode its projects with AACS, so my question is, can I demux video and DTS-HD tracks from an infected disk, put them on Scenarist, enable AACS, mux them, burn the resulting disk and avoid Cinavia?

I don’t have a PS3 nor any infected player, so I cannot test it.

Greetings

[SamuriHL]

In theory that would work.

[setarip_old]

Post #710 here by Ghitulescu provides further support to the two-pronged attack I suggested in Post 578 here (in response to "Peer van Heuen"), to wit: I'd suggest that there are/should be two different objectives regarding overcoming the effects of Cinavia:

1) Long-term - As you propose, to devise a method that will REMOVE the watermarking from any and all Cinavia "infected" discs.

2) Short-term, the sooner the better - To devise a method that will prevent Cinavia from being activated when any and all Cinavia "infected" discs are played.

This short term solution would address the needs of the masses, in that no one making a legitimate backup copy would be confronted with a Cinavia-crippled disc. Such quick responses should also make it apparent to AACS-LA members and Verance that the Blu-ray business model's profit margin is actually being eroded by the cost of the application of Cinavia.

At the same time then, some of those truly knowledgable community members could remain focussed on the long-term goal of purging the watermarks from any and all discs.

[Ajax_Undone]

One question because I am not as familiar as most about the idea and concept of Cinavia. First let me discribe all of what I have extrapolated from the many boring threads of this and other posts.

These are:

1. Cinavia is an audio watermark that is impermeable to encoding. (It would have to transcend the frequency on all levels; so it must also be inside the frequency of standard voice range communication)

2. It usually shows up and cancels the audio at about 30~45 minutes of viewing while displaying a stupid tard message.

3. There may be a visual component but that remains to be seen. (Also transcends encoding Visible light = visible water mark)

4. It responds to non AACS encrypted Cinavia infected content like its a plague.

So my question; as that I have yet to see it answered is. Do we have a list of timelines on the exact milli second level where Cinavia killed the audio?
If we knew where the triggers were we'd surly have better success removing them. The easiest way to find them IMHO would be a reversing of firmware infected with it and using it as a robot to find and dump portions of the audio data that trigger Cinavia on a bit level.

[rotty]

One question because I am not as familiar as most about the idea and concept of Cinavia. First let me discribe all of what I have extrapolated from the many boring threads of this and other posts.

These are:

1. Cinavia is an audio watermark that is impermeable to encoding. (It would have to transcend the frequency on all levels; so it must also be inside the frequency of standard voice range communication)

2. It usually shows up and cancels the audio at about 30~45 minutes of viewing while displaying a stupid tard message.

3. There may be a visual component but that remains to be seen. (Also transcends encoding Visible light = visible water mark)

4. It responds to non AACS encrypted Cinavia infected content like its a plague.

So my question; as that I have yet to see it answered is. Do we have a list of timelines on the exact milli second level where Cinavia killed the audio?
If we knew where the triggers were we'd surly have better success removing them. The easiest way to find them IMHO would be a reversing of firmware infected with it and using it as a robot to find and dump portions of the audio data that trigger Cinavia on a bit level.


Well thats because the point at which the audio is muted has nothing to do with the detection point position.

[[SLiM]D12]

2. It usually shows up and cancels the audio at about 30~45 minutes of viewing while displaying a stupid tard message.



It's actually right around the 20 min mark.

[HWK]

Sonic Scenarist has the option to encode its projects with AACS, so my question is, can I demux video and DTS-HD tracks from an infected disk, put them on Scenarist, enable AACS, mux them, burn the resulting disk and avoid Cinavia?

I don’t have a PS3 nor any infected player, so I cannot test it.

Greetings


No, That won't work, Sonic Scenarist only set aacs flag on video stream, actual stream is encrypted at replication plant. What's more once flag is applied it won't be any use to any blu-ray disc player until it is gone through replication plant. As such you can't put aacs in this manner at home, therefore can't make it work.

[SamuriHL]

One question because I am not as familiar as most about the idea and concept of Cinavia. First let me discribe all of what I have extrapolated from the many boring threads of this and other posts.

These are:

1. Cinavia is an audio watermark that is impermeable to encoding. (It would have to transcend the frequency on all levels; so it must also be inside the frequency of standard voice range communication)


Yea, no one yet has figured out exactly how the signal is embedded or if there's more than one signal. In any case, it does resist all attempts at re-encoding and even analog recording.


2. It usually shows up and cancels the audio at about 30~45 minutes of viewing while displaying a stupid tard message.


Correction, the message 3 used on commercial blu-rays shows up at 20 minutes. That is an arbitrary point, however, since message 1 infected tracks show up immediately and completely kill playback.


3. There may be a visual component but that remains to be seen. (Also transcends encoding Visible light = visible water mark)


No, there is no visual component to Cinavia. Tests I've done on The Losers prove that. I added the re-encoded audio track from the blu-ray to the non-Cinavia infected DVD and Cinavia was detected. It's an audio track only protection.


4. It responds to non AACS encrypted Cinavia infected content like its a plague.


Yes, it's very effective at its job. If Cinavia is detected, and it's the type of signal found on a commercial blu-ray, then it looks for a valid AACS certificate. If it's not found, error message 3 you get. If it's a recording of a theater performance of a movie, you will get an immediate error message 1 as the content is not authorized for home use at all.


So my question; as that I have yet to see it answered is. Do we have a list of timelines on the exact milli second level where Cinavia killed the audio?
If we knew where the triggers were we'd surly have better success removing them. The easiest way to find them IMHO would be a reversing of firmware infected with it and using it as a robot to find and dump portions of the audio data that trigger Cinavia on a bit level.

Considering that a player can detect Cinavia almost immediately on certain types of Cinavia signals (i.e. the ones that trigger error message 1), detection is very quick. It's not some "set points" where you can just remove a couple seconds of the film and be done with it. The signal is present in the entire audio track and detection is very fast. I'm sure there's redundant checks being done to eliminate "false positives", but you're still talking only a matter of seconds at most. No matter where you start playback from...

[xenex]

SamuriHL is correct, you will not find "trigger points." Verance has been very clever. According to the patents, there can be data encoded within the watermark that can introduce a random delay between the time the watermark is detected, and the time when playback/audio stops. And, although I have no way to test it, I surmise that they are already using this on the commercial media to give that ~20 minute 'grace period.'

From the patent "System reactions to the detection of embedded watermarks in a digital host content" -- Link:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=7c-pAAAAEBAJ

I found this on page 41:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=7c-pAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA41&img=1&zoom=4&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U1c7yf3RRx3hiZ23rpGBue1Cml5gQ&ci=503%2C213%2C359%2C563&edge=0

I don't know if I would say that Verance has "thought of everything" but I might indeed say that they have not missed much.

[pepelugil]

No, That won't work, Sonic Scenarist only set aacs flag on video stream, actual stream is encrypted at replication plant. What's more once flag is applied it won't be any use to any blu-ray disc player until it is gone through replication plant. As such you can't put aacs in this manner at home, therefore can't make it work.

Thanks for the clarification.

[SamuriHL]

I don't know if I would say that Verance has "thought of everything" but I might indeed say that they have not missed much.

It will be interesting to see how "adaptive" it is. Fengtao's backup method throws a wrinkle in their plan because, as has been stated before, it's actually considered a "trusted source". From a technical stand point, changing the implementation to detect Cinavia on a recordable media isn't really a problem. However, since that's part of the standard, we're left guessing as to whether or not they'll take that approach to "close that loophole" as it were. Only time will tell. What is for sure is that they're seeing some kind of success with Cinavia and that will embolden them to use it more going forward. We're already starting to see that.

[rotty]

It will be interesting to see how "adaptive" it is. Fengtao's backup method throws a wrinkle in their plan because, as has been stated before, it's actually considered a "trusted source". From a technical stand point, changing the implementation to detect Cinavia on a recordable media isn't really a problem. However, since that's part of the standard, we're left guessing as to whether or not they'll take that approach to "close that loophole" as it were. Only time will tell. What is for sure is that they're seeing some kind of success with Cinavia and that will embolden them to use it more going forward. We're already starting to see that.

We should all, at least, try and affect the sales figures for infected disks.

And as for HD TRUE audio, well.

[Eustonstreet]

This paper describes how to successfully attack earlier incarnations of VCMS/AV (AKA Cinavia). Enjoy.

http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/craver.pdf

[setarip_old]

@Eustonstreet

Hi and welcome to the Doom9 Forums.

Perhaps there's nothing new under the sun?

See my Post #14, dated July 21, 2010, of this thread: If anyone with more technical knowledge than I have is interested, here's a link I came upon, to a "challenge" regarding audio watermarking, dating back to 2001:

http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/sec01/craver.pdf

[Eustonstreet]

@setarip_old

Apologies, missed your previous post, so alas, nothing new. A very interesting bedtime read none the less.

[Eza17]

Considering that a player can detect Cinavia almost immediately on certain types of Cinavia signals (i.e. the ones that trigger error message 1), detection is very quick. It's not some "set points" where you can just remove a couple seconds of the film and be done with it. The signal is present in the entire audio track and detection is very fast. I'm sure there's redundant checks being done to eliminate "false positives", but you're still talking only a matter of seconds at most. No matter where you start playback from...

Backing up your statement, I posted some timings in post #405 which indicate that cinavia is reliably detected within 4 seconds of audio (detected in 3 seconds but takes longer probably due to it causing less reliable signals). After the 20ish minute 'grace' period, cinavia is immediately detected on any other playback. My tests were done with an arbitrary piece of audio chosen at random from a full audio clip.

[SamuriHL]

Backing up your statement, I posted some timings in post #405 which indicate that cinavia is reliably detected within 4 seconds of audio (detected in 3 seconds but takes longer probably due to it causing less reliable signals). After the 20ish minute 'grace' period, cinavia is immediately detected on any other playback. My tests were done with an arbitrary piece of audio chosen at random from a full audio clip.

Oh yea, that's right. I forgot about your post. Yea, that definitely shows there's no "trigger points" in the audio stream. They've embedded the signal like a tick. :)

[Eza17]

Oh yea, that's right. I forgot about your post. Yea, that definitely shows there's no "trigger points" in the audio stream. They've embedded the signal like a tick. :)

Ha, it's hard to remember any posts with over 700 now :)

@setarip_old
Just a suggestion but what about editing the very first post in this thread with the known facts, types 1 & 3, 20 mins is a 'grace' period and not where the cinavia is, normal re-encoding isn't going to shift it etc. It's just a suggestion but might stop some of the same questions being asked several times :)

[Carpo]

So just to see if i have this right, if i want to play any cinava infected film on any player that supports it i have to use dvdfab to make the back up, if i just want to back it up to an mkv to play on the pc i just have to convert the hd audio to standard ac3 or dts and im good to go?

[Ghitulescu]

As long as cinavia is not removed it would remain inthere and as such it would trigger sometimes in the future when the PC too must obey this detection. The only hope is that cinavia will be cracked until then.

[Carpo]

As long as cinavia is not removed it would remain inthere and as such it would trigger sometimes in the future when the PC too must obey this detection. The only hope is that cinavia will be cracked until then.

do you mean with the rip to mkv? I am guessing that as you say will need to keep the cinavia crap on the full back up

[xenex]

At this point, there is NO commercial PC-software based player that will detect Cinavia or react to it. That includes PowerDVD, WinDVD, or TMT. As well, none of the open-source media players detect it, and they never will.

That would include VLC, Totem, MPC, MPC-HC, and etc.

As has been noted, the PS3 and a "few" - very few - standalone hardware players react to Cinavia. I'd recommend not purchasing the ones that do have detection. Its the least one can do.

[SamuriHL]

So just to see if i have this right, if i want to play any cinava infected film on any player that supports it i have to use dvdfab to make the back up, if i just want to back it up to an mkv to play on the pc i just have to convert the hd audio to standard ac3 or dts and im good to go?

Why convert the audio? I backup all my movies to MKV format and play them with MPC-HC/ffdshow. Full bitstreaming, no Cinavia. :)

[SamuriHL]

As long as cinavia is not removed it would remain inthere and as such it would trigger sometimes in the future when the PC too must obey this detection. The only hope is that cinavia will be cracked until then.

Open source software on the PC is *NEVER* going to implement Cinavia. So, if you want MKV playback, regardless of whether Cinavia is embedded in the audio track, it's really not an issue.

[Carpo]

Why convert the audio? I backup all my movies to MKV format and play them with MPC-HC/ffdshow. Full bitstreaming, no Cinavia. :)

Mainly due to the fact that some of the audio i have seen is in excess of 3gb, thaat and storage space was an issue at the time and i have got into a routine with backing up my discs.

Are you saying that you keep the dts-hd and true-hd audio when you backup your discs?

[SamuriHL]

Mainly due to the fact that some of the audio i have seen is in excess of 3gb, thaat and storage space was an issue at the time and i have got into a routine with backing up my discs.

Are you saying that you keep the dts-hd and true-hd audio when you backup your discs?

Yes, I keep the HD audio tracks in my backups. MKV is a pretty efficient container and is slightly smaller than m2ts. Regardless of whether or not it has Cinavia, I can always play my MKV backups by using MPC-HC. Cinavia is inert on such a setup.

[dwrbudr]

What about hardware players like WD-TV, ASUS, etc.? Do you think they will "adopt" cinavia?

[Ghitulescu]

Open source software on the PC is *NEVER* going to implement Cinavia. So, if you want MKV playback, regardless of whether Cinavia is embedded in the audio track, it's really not an issue.

I was not talking about open source or more generally about the application layer. Cinavia detection can be implemented in SO layer (sort of DirectX API), or in the drivers of the audiocard (the cretification procedure may include this requirement), or even in the FW of the audiocard. Supposingly one would use the digital output (to bypasss several hurdles), maybe the FW of the AVR would include cinavia detection, and the horror scenarios may go on....

[SamuriHL]

I was not talking about open source or more generally about the application layer. Cinavia detection can be implemented in SO layer (sort of DirectX API), or in the drivers of the audiocard (the cretification procedure may include this requirement), or even in the FW of the audiocard. Supposingly one would use the digital output (to bypasss several hurdles), maybe the FW of the AVR would include cinavia detection, and the horror scenarios may go on....

Um, yea, sure. :rolleyes: I've asked this question before to people who insist on spreading this kind of FUD. How is an audio card, AVR, etc supposed to know that the Cinavia infected disc that's being played is an original or not? The player removes AACS before sending it to any of those devices. So even if they somehow add detection in those external devices, they're not able to authenticate whether it's an original or not. There is also no mechanism for those devices to ask the player nicely, either. And let's say they did. You buy, let's say, an AVR that supposedly knows how to detect Cinavia in an audio stream, but, you have an older BD player that doesn't support Cinavia detection. So the AVR detects Cinavia, but, the AACS is removed, so, it has no way of knowing whether you're playing an original or a backup. Regardless of what "devices" support Cinavia detection, at the end of the day, the *PLAYER* must be the one that controls whether it's a trusted source or not. Period.

[Ghitulescu]

The PC is not a trusted source. Also period.

[SamuriHL]

So, you're saying the PC is not allowed to play commercial blu-rays?

[Ghitulescu]

No**, I said that if cinavia was designed to survive reencoding (or in other words to be played on devices that do not have to obey AACS*), it means that all the players would eventually be "cinavia-infected". Since this won't affect one's own audio score, it won't hurt anything. It can thus be implemented on pro gear, too.

Additional point: since one can film a wedding where the music is not licenced to be played, this too would activate cinavia on playback ()cinavia is supposed to survive analog conversions, too). That's the world according to cinavia.

That's why I said that both an intermediate and a definitive solution is needed, the intermediate is needed NOW, because it will work NOW.

*AACS is just a method to force some manufacturers to implement certain features. Similar restrictions apply for various other types of products (like HD SAT receivers).

**Somehow, yes. Remember that all the copyright protections generally try to prevent the use of CD/DVD/BD on a computer. This is the problem, as the same CD/DVD/BD should play on a standalone, which sometimes employs PC components (like PC drives).

[SamuriHL]

All COMMERCIAL players on the PC will be Cinavia infected. That's because they are bound by their license agreement with the AACS-LA. We agree on that. But there is no way they can force open source players to implement it. They can only force their licensees to implement it. Hence, any backup I make as an MKV will always play fine in an open source player like MPC-HC/ffdshow. Without the worry of Cinavia.

[Ghitulescu]

I agree, but this is one simplistic, single-sided view. You missed the real point under * of above.
The people behind AACS were the same (more or less) as those behind CSS and so on. HD-DVD failed because the studios decided its protection is too weak. No HD-DVD-only supporter owned a studio at the time.
It's called AACS for BD, it's called HD+/CI+ for SAT, it's called PCxx for PCs, everything that touches the interests of media concerns would have to be somehow "certified" and this certification would eventually imply this item, sometimes nicely hidden behind pompous words (for public documents).

[SamuriHL]

Yea, I get it. But, for the context of this thread, we're discussing Cinavia. New protections could be made to do all the scary bad things you're suggesting. However, in terms of Cinavia, then no. It's limited to being an embedded signal on an audio track that is then detected by the player. The player is instructed to determine if the content is from a trusted source. In the case of DVD's and Blu-ray's, they check for an AACS certificate to see if it's a valid, original disc. If the player doesn't contain Cinavia checking code, then the protection is rather useless. (A slightly off topic rant....this is what the studios get for allowing a half baked standard like BD to "win"....if it's constantly evolving then you have customers with older versions of a product that don't contain the newer parts of the standard. Yet, they still have to be allowed to play legally purchased content. Kind of a catch 22 when you're adding new protection mechanisms.) Anyway, yes, they could do all the things you're suggesting, but, then, that's not Cinavia. For the purposes of this thread, we have to look at what Cinavia is, and how we may defeat it.

BTW, I think some people still get me wrong when I say that companies like SlySoft and Fengtao should focus on long term removal and not short term workaround solutions. They seem to think I mean that NO ONE should focus on short term workarounds and that's not what I'm saying at all. I think if we're to ever get a long term, full removal solution, those who are capable of that should start now and focus just on that and not get distracted trying to create a workaround that can be squashed. Full removal is not a simple thing to do and is likely going to take quite a bit of time and effort. While they're focusing on long term, that opens a gap for OTHERS to come up with the workarounds as has been done. Fengtao's solution at least gives people an option to play their backups on Cinavia infected devices as long as you keep it in a BD structure. I don't have a problem with that in the least. All I've said is those that are capable of long term, full removal should focus on that, and let other people worry about the short term workarounds.

Personally, my short term work around is to use open source software for playback. That will not be forced to detect Cinavia and therefore bypasses the problem completely. That solution doesn't work for everyone.

[setarip_old]

Perhaps SONY will sue themselves for this one ;>} (The more "open doors" to the PS3, the greater the potential for eliminating "Cinavia")

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=94543

(additional insight)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107640-Kevin-Butler-Accidentally-Retweets-PS3-Jailbreak-Code-to-Thousands-of-Followers

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Hi!

Sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too:

Post #746 BTW, I think some people still get me wrong when I say that companies like SlySoft and Fengtao should focus on long term removal and not short term workaround solutions.

Post #582 The short term is pointless other than for academic reasons.

Post #600 Yes, it will show the AACSLA that their protection attempts are futile and force them to plug the holes. So, I guess the "keep em busy" strategy isn't a bad one. Just so long as the right people are working on the right solutions.

[tripmaster]

Personally, my short term work around is to use open source software for playback. That will not be forced to detect Cinavia and therefore bypasses the problem completely. That solution doesn't work for everyone.

My short term solution is to stream my compressed version to my Xbox360. It forces me to use it as a media extender, which I dont do. But it does work in the short term.

[SamuriHL]

@SamuriHL

Hi!

Sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too:



Nope. The short term solutions are fine until they get fixed. Hence why they're called "short term". So far, we've not seen any evidence of Cinavia evolving as short term solutions are found. However, it seems very likely that they will plug the holes. Therefore, I repeat, short term solutions are fine for, well, the short term. Longer term, we want it removed. And for that to happen, someone needs to work on that. If they're busy devising short term solutions, they won't have enough time to work on removing it. I fail to see why that concept is difficult to understand. This isn't something that's going to get dealt with in a day, week, or even month. Someone needs to really rip this thing apart and figure out how to get rid of it once and for all.