BD-Rebuilder, Feature Requests

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

Since there are a lot of feature request in the Bug Report thread (yes my own are also there), here is a feature request thread.

Best regards

[Chefkoch_ico]

I start with myself.

I tested around with DGVC1DecNV and DGAVCDecNV. They are faster and more compatibler (especially with VC1 interlaced material, a lot as bonus on BluRays) than DirectShow. And it does not matter which filters you have installed.

Here are the test details:
DGVC1DecNV
I am legend GER, 00040.m2ts -> OK
The Mummy 3 GER, 00010.m2ts -> OK
DeInterlacing directly within DGVC1DecNV without further CPU usgae -> OK

I am legend GER, 00000.m2ts, main movie
13.6 mins for indexing over GBit LAN
1st pass encoded 144615 frames, 30.31 fps, 9136.07 kb/s = 79.5 mins
2nd pass encoded 144615 frames, 9.68 fps, 9728.69 kb/s = 249 mins
===
approx 342 mins = 5hrs, 42 mins


---------------------------------------------------------


ffdshow
I am legend GER, 00040.m2ts -> libavcodec(NOK: grey picture), wmv9(OK)
The Mummy 3 GER, 00010.m2ts -> libavcodec(NOK: timeout), wmv9(NOK: distortion, crashs)

I am legend GER, 00000.m2ts, main movie
1st pass encoded 144613 frames, 25.13 fps, 9136.31 kb/s = 95.9 mins
2nd pass encoded 144613 frames, 9.19 fps, 9728.67 kb/s = 262.6 mins
===
approx 359 mins = 5hrs, 59 mins


Best regards

[Sharc]

Now, once we started the wish list, here my priorities:
- As an owner of Nvidia I second the request for DGVC1 decoding
- Option to resize to 720p
- Editor to deselect unwanted Extras (similar to DVD-RB)

No hurry though ;)
Thanks a lot.

[rack04]

I would really like the ability to edit the x264 input options. I understand this could cause problems with modifying the input options and breaking compliance with Blu-ray specifications but I think it should be enabled. Maybe similar to the AVS editor in DVD-Rebuilder.

[~bT~]

i got dgtools in the hope of using them one day with bd-rb..
next request would be to simply remove unwanted extras & option to resize to 720 which i hear is in the pipeline.

[DVD Maniac]

My priority is Extras removal and by this I mean menu triggered extras (ie - Trailers, Deleted scenes and other unwanted rubbish) AND the annoying splash screens that appear either before or after the menu (usually copyright warnings or annoying movie studio adverts).

As I mentioned in the thread I started, as an interim step I would be happy with a movie only mode which used the original chapter points (rather than the default 5 minute ones). I would have thought this could be implemented quite easily?

[shon3i]

-vc1 encoding
-mainconcept reference encoder (because support 4 slices) and can be runned from commandline. like CCE :), it will be idealy for BD-25, and its lot faster than x264.


I would really like the ability to edit the x264 input optionsNot all, just most of them, like subme, deblock, cqm, things which can incrase/decrase quality, but not hurt compactibility.

[macnow]

- Untouched Main Video option... only extras encode to BD-25... (many movies fits on BD-25 without/with reencoded audios, extras...)

[Capsbackup]

Shut down after completion.

[wakebrder]

Option to retain original HD Audio. DTS-HD, DTS Master, True-HD, LPCM, etc.

I realize True-HD won't be possible until tsMuxer properly supports it.:scared:

[~bT~]

Option to retain original HD Audio. DTS-HD, DTS Master, True-HD, LPCM, etc.

I realize True-HD won't be possible until tsMuxer properly supports it.:scared:

unless JD goes ahead with the muxer he has planned ;)

[wakebrder]

unless JD goes ahead with the muxer he has planned ;)

Well, that is GREAT News!!:D

[PNYBOY]

Option to retain original HD Audio. DTS-HD, DTS Master, True-HD, LPCM, etc.

I realize True-HD won't be possible until tsMuxer properly supports it.:scared:

I second this request

[canuckerfan]

-vc1 encoding
-mainconcept reference encoder (because support 4 slices) and can be runned from commandline. like CCE :), it will be idealy for BD-25, and its lot faster than x264.


Not all, just most of them, like subme, deblock, cqm, things which can incrase/decrase quality, but not hurt compactibility.
vc1 encoding would be kind of redundant, no? h.264 is already supported by so many hardware devices and we have a great free encoder in x264 for that. vc1 isn't that widely supported and i don't even know an encoder for it. just my opinion, but I believe vc1 encoding can be put on the backburner for a while. no immediate need for it. the less jdobbs has to do, the better.

[turbojet]

Besides the ones already mentioned I'd like to see
- avs2yuv -> x264 64 bit support until avisynth 64 bit begins to be worked on again, it's 10-15% faster for me with cli tests on vista 64 bit. It's just a few extra parameters to add to the x264 line and a 32 KB exe.
- ivtc support, either automatic with scan or adjustable per clip
- no deinterlacing option, and let x264 encode interlaced
- eta of project or at least clip in gui
- show runtime of each clip in stream window

But most of all I'd like to see full backups on dvd5/9 playing back on most players, I know it's a stretch but I have a feeling it can be done.

[shon3i]

and we have a great free encoder in x264 for that
yes and no, if the developers do not begin to improve VBV system, and finally done NAL HRD, and add slices support because it is necessary for 100% Compatibility, which otherwise could lead to the question of x264 as a good a product unusable.

VC-1, can be good option for BD-9 (main movie only) and BD-25 offcourse, VC-1 is aslo free :)

[Freak-o]

I'd like to have a x264 log file for the main feature. This is way more informative than plain bitrate.

[KarstenS]

Not only Shutdown please. I would wish me a pull down or so to chose shutdown, standby or hibernate.

[Sophocles]

Before anyone decides to add HD audio to their reencodes read this article and then decide how much difference it's actually going to make. Take note that the comparisons are being made on ultra high quality very expensive systems in a well designed sound room.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM?page=0%2C0

[PNYBOY]

Before anyone decides to add HD audio to their reencodes read this article and then decide how much difference it's actually going to make. Take note that the comparisons are being made on ultra high quality very expensive systems in a well designed sound room.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM?page=0%2C0
No disrespect, but I could care less what the article says. I know what I hear in my home theater and yes I hear a difference.

[Sophocles]

No disrespect, but I could care less what the article says. I know what I hear in my home theater and yes I hear a difference.

No disrespect taken. I realize that there will be some who insist on keeping HD audio tracks, and I am certain that feature jdobbs intends to add it at one point or another.

Audio quality debates have been going on for decades. Remember when people insisted that good old vinyl was better than CD audio? In the early days of CD they were probably right, and that debate is still in progress. The problem with making comparisons is the quality of equipment, the ability to A/B test, and soundtracks that often involves completely different mixes of the same audio content. I posted the article because I've worked with audio most of my life, and I understood the point being made in the article clearly since I've been in the position to perform similar tests. I do however support your choice, because it is a matter of preference. The point of posting the article was to insure early BD RB adopters that a 640kbs soundtrack is pretty darned good if mixed right.

[laserfan]

The point of posting the article was to insure early BD RB adopters that a 640kbs soundtrack is pretty darned good if mixed right.The predominate message of the article was "Dolby and DTS compression methods are virtually indistinguishable from the original masters" but if lower bitrates being as good as the "HD" versions of DD and DTS was in there too then I'll take your word for it. ;)

Regardless, it seems awfully silly to me that some folks want to make "backups" of BD discs, from 50Gb to DVD-5 or -9, and retain the best audiotrack and at the same time have no deterioration of the video.

If the program has such outstanding audio quality that it's noticeable (and I have one such that certainly IS, despite that my hearing ain't what it used to be), then play the friggin' original disc and archive the audio & video separately if you think you might destroy the original some day (or you can't afford to buy another disc)!

"Backups" indeed! Ha, ha! :devil:

[Sophocles]

Laserfan

I wasn't implying that AC3 640kbs is as good as HD audio formats because I know that's not true. The point that I was trying to make is that home surround systems can't reproduce any real qualitative difference, and what differences that most people hear might not have anything to do with sound quality. Some years ago I setup an A/B test between a DBX recorded cassette tape and a CD, and to make things interesting I used an equalizer to boost hi and low frequencies, and without fail everyone chose the cassette recording. Their perception of what was better was hearing bright hi's and booming bass.

Here are the points made in the article that makes good sense.

The shocker came when we compared the lower 448 kbps Dolby Digital DVD bitrate to the original. There was an audible difference, but it was only ever-so-slightly noticeable (and this is with a high end audio system in an acoustically controlled environment that is so far beyond what typical home theater systems are capable of resolving). There was just the slightest decrease in presence with the DD version, not exactly a softening of the sound, but just a tad less ambience and a similarly small tightening of the front soundstage’s depth. Quite a remarkable result, I thought, and I was highly impressed with how much fidelity can be packed into such a relatively small amount of bitspace. If I was doing actual scoring, I would have awarded a 4.8 grade to the results I heard – the audible difference was that subtle.

that said, I could definitely pick out the difference between the lesser (or perhaps it’s more accurate to say “better”) compressed versions and the higher compressed versions. The difference is mostly in the presence, or ambience. The lossless, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD High Resolution compressed tracks were just a little more open and airy. I hate to say it, but they just sounded more realistic and transparent. The 448 kbps Dolby Digital and standard DTS tracks were less so, a little more closed off. Between the 640 kbps Dolby Digital and the uncompressed, the difference was even less noticeable. Enough so that most people, even those trained to listen for it, probably won’t be able to hear the difference.

If you’ve been listening at home and are sure you can hear a difference on your favorite discs, be wary. There is absolutely no way to tell that compressed and uncompressed tracks on any disc have anything to do with each other. They could come from different masters, they could be mixed differently, or any number of other variables that makes an in-home test, unfortunately, impossible.


In time jdobbs will no doubt add HD audio options to BD RB and for those that might have chosen a single layer backup can always to the dual layer option to keep HD audio on many discs. For me it's like you stated.
Regardless,
it seems awfully silly to me that some folks want to make "backups" of BD discs, from 50Gb to DVD-5 or -9, and retain the best audiotrack and at the same time have no deterioration of the video.

That becomes even more true if any qualitative differences that individuals hear has nothing to do with audible quality.

[laserfan]

Some years ago I setup an A/B test between a DBX recorded cassette tape and a CD, and to make things interesting I used an equalizer to boost hi and low frequencies, and without fail everyone chose the cassette recording. Their perception of what was better was hearing bright hi's and booming bass.Yep. When I was a much younger man I learned that you could almost always get a listener to prefer Speaker A over Speaker B just by cranking the level up a touch!

[Sophocles]

laserfan

Yep. When I was a much younger man I learned that you could almost always get a listener to prefer Speaker A over Speaker B just by cranking the level up a touch!

I think that we're showing our years. LOL I was musician from 1969 to 1976 and then became a high end AV salesmen (AV consultant). From the sounds of things you've been there too. I then left and studied Recording Engineering for studio work, and then back to AV for a while. You are absolutely correct about cranking speaker volum just a bit because that's enough to increase audible highs and lows.

Still there are a number of requests for HD audio and I suspect that jdobbs will in time add it, but for me AC3 640kbs 5:1 is as good as I will ever need it.

[wakebrder]

Before anyone decides to add HD audio to their reencodes read this article and then decide how much difference it's actually going to make. Take note that the comparisons are being made on ultra high quality very expensive systems in a well designed sound room.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM?page=0%2C0

So by all means go for the new codecs, as they definitely sound better than what was on DVD.

To me, this is the whole point of the article. I'm not saying there is a HUGE difference, but if you have higher end equipment, it's definitely there.

I liked the fact that the DTS lab was using the same receiver I have in my living room.:p

With many BDs, the HD audio track has 6.1 or 7.1 channels.
When you extract the core, it downgrades to 5.1. Although XMen 3 came out as DTS-ES 6.1 when I extracted the DTS core.

Then again, maybe some of use just like it when DTS-HD Master or True-HD lights up on our receivers.:D

[jdobbs]

I'll add HD options -- but right now I'm more concerned about bugs...

[KarstenS]

The differences betwenn the audio formats are details. Example: Enchanted (German).

I've watched this movie in DD and DTS.

DD: In some parts with effects and/or music it was very difficult, up to impossible, to understand, what the people are talking or singing.

DTS: In the same parts, the voices and effects are hearable more discrete. It was much easier to understand what they are talkling and it was possible to understand that words, I didn't understood with AC3 track.

I've only a low end equipment (Onkyo TX-SR 606 AV Receiver with actually only 2x"Heco Victa 700" speakers), but I can hear that difference between these two formats and I think, the differences between DTS and HD Formats is a similar difference, but I coundn't test this theory because nearly no Blu-Ray Disk has got German HD Sound.

[Sophocles]

The differences betwenn the audio formats are details. Example: Enchanted (German).

I've watched this movie in DD and DTS.

DD: In some parts with effects and/or music it was very difficult, up to impossible, to understand, what the people are talking or singing.


When there are two different surround tracks on a single disc the differences are often more in the mix down than in the actually quality. There's no question that DTS is superior to 448kbs DD but there should be no audible differences between 640kbs DD and DTS unless they are mixed differently.

To be the "Devil's advocate" that would also mean that if 640kbs is the superior mix then it is going to sound better than DTS. In the end however I think that one should be able to reencode to their preference for the final outcome.

[nurbs]

I think the differences you guys are hearing are likely because the DD tracks all come with dialog normalization and the DTS tracks don't. You could try to remove the normalization (e.g. with eac3to) and compare the tracks afterwards. Maybe there will be no audible difference then.

[shon3i]

With the last EBU multichannel ABX test, shows that the DTS 1.5mbps, AC3 448kbps, 160kbps HE-AAC, E-AC3 320kbps have tied scores, which automatically means that the AC3 640kbps is certainly higher quality than DTS 1.5mbps, from same source.

[yonexsp]

HD DVD output option :)

[shon3i]

HD DVD output option :)
Haha, your newer get that :), but HDDVD as input will be more interesting.

[yonexsp]

when BD Rebuilder runs it creates a x.264 file & the AC3 file. What is needed to make these files compatible with HD DVD? I have tried hddvdmux but it crashes at 10.5%

[jdobbs]

HD DVD output option I'll be honest guys... I really don't see much chance of my spending hours and hours to provide support for a standard that is dead. I wouldn't hold my breath for HD DVD support.

Sorry.

[Surf]

Mr. Dobbs,

HD DVD or Blu Ray INPUT

OUTPUT: sd dvd aka 720x480, one dd5.1 audio and one subtitle jammed packed to the hilt with bits...just like the SUPERBIT.

The funding's on its way if it is affirmative :D.

I scavanged about 100 cheap hd dvd titles recently. Don't plan to buy more than ONE blu player but already have 3 sd players in the house.

[yonexsp]

I'll be honest guys... I really don't see much chance of my spending hours and hours to provide support for a standard that is dead. I wouldn't hold my breath for HD DVD support.

Sorry.

Not even movie only :) PLeeeasee lol!!

[BigCondor]

Just wonder if you can get the program to run without having to change the language of non-unicode programs in the control panel.

[jdobbs]

Good point. I waited too long before looking at that in DVD-RB and decided it wasn't worth the work...

[DaMacFunkin]

Definatley needs a Power Off Function.
Keep HD Audio streams too, virtually all my new disks have HD audio of one flavour or another and obviousley having a 7.1 system i am loave to spend 24 hours+ re-encoding any titles with more than 5.1 channels.
Thanks.

[jfcarbel]

- Ability to cut at end or to apply lower bitrate to end credits

info about encoding on final ISO/disc:
Not sure if this is within the spec, but if there is an area on the disc which will allow a text file to go un-noticed and not break spec, then it would be great to write an encode info text file with all the info about how this BD was encoded. For now the log file would probably be sufficient. But it would also be nice if the user could supply a movie title and their own comments that could be included in this file.

The below suggested features are more final touch features and make the software easier to use rather then truly necessary.

movie playlist and stream descriptions for each movie:
I am thinking that the biggest sticking point may be for non-techie people to be able to decide which options to pick for main movie, or extras to remove, etc. I am thinking that for each title their would be some way for expert users to create XML file that identifies all these and then Rebuilder is able to load these based on a unique discID. This way the user sees audio streams identified as AC3 German, Directors Commentary with..., Actors Commentary. And streams as Main Movie, Unrated Cut, Making of, etc. Then in the options there is an URL that could be supplied to download hosted master versions of these. Or to point a directory where these are stored.

ability to view/listen to streams to decide what to remove:
similar to Nero Recode today where one can choose any stream and view it or scroll thru it quickly with the arrow keys. And ability to choose audio stream and listen to it. This feature might make the above unneccessary.

[mochevolete]

if the option : "- Option to retain original HD Audio. DTS-HD, DTS Master, True-HD, LPCM, etc." would be really welcome,
I'd add the option : "Downconvert HD / Lossless Audio to DTS Full Rate", very often the LPCM audio is way too big

Nik

[anaboland]

Options to keep original TRUE HD audio tracks and maybe an option to convert/down sample other selected 5.1 audio tracks to 2ch 192kbps, PLZ:thanks:

[Sophocles]

Ok I know that this is going to sound stupid to those of you who face greater than 10 hour reencodes, but if possible I would like to see a return to batch encoding. I figure that overnight and during the time that it takes me to get home from the real world I can easily do at least 3 to 4 BD movies depending on length.

[tyte_E_YT]

How about a pause button so we don't have to lose any progress on the current encode?

[m1482]

Even that I am very happy with this beta program, this additional features would make it even better and faster.

1-Ability to choose encoders (for example, mpeg2 for menus and additional features, and h264 for main movie).
2-Different resolution options for each title and/or menu.
3-Ability to delete some titles.

Thanks for the good work!!!

[VistaVick]

How about a pause button so we don't have to lose any progress on the current encode?

Can't you just save the current project before aborting and load it again later to resume?

[k-c-ksum]

ability to edit the avs file before encoding would be handy, especially to help those 2-3 hour movies that would struggle to hold together on a dvd9

[dre111nl]

How about a pause button so we don't have to lose any progress on the current encode?

I'm not an expert in details of the encoding, but a pause-button would be very much appricated!

Great tool, by the way!

[Sharc]

It could be helpful to indicate in the log the type of encoder used for the original stream, e.g.

- [20:08:12] Collecting video information [00297]
Video: 1920x1080, 29.970fps, VC-1
- Bitrate: 9,185 Kbs
- [20:08:16] Reencoding: VID_00297, Pass 1 of 2
- [20:08:16] Reencoding: VID_00297, Pass 2 of 2
- Error [01:-1073741819] returned from encoder. Retrying.
- Error [02:-1073741819] returned from encoder. Retrying.