AVStoDVD Support Thread

[Mike-uk]

if you used the trim command and made small clips then upload them to google drive then share the link

[manolito]

? that's 2 different movies, you ned to compare with the same movie and same time frame

Yes, of course, but I do not think that this is even necessary... :p

Comparing the logs I noticed that "Olymus has fallen" uses the ColorMatrix command to convert the colorimetry from HD (Rec.709) to SD (Rec.601). And this results in correct colors.

"Angel has fallen" does not use the Colormatrix command, and this results in darker and more greenish colors. This is an indication that the source file uses Rec.709, but is incorrectly flagged so AVStoDVD cannot recognize the source colorimetry.

This can be easily fixed by adding the ColorMatrix command manually.

https://i.postimg.cc/0Q1wyyPZ/Colormatrix.png (https://postimages.org/)

Add the Colormatrix command and use a source value of 0 and a target value of 2. This should fix it.

In any case your issue has nothing to do with the audio conversion. The FFmpeg AC3 encoder should have a slight edge over Aften these days, but I doubt that you will be able to hear the difference.


Cheers
manolito

[dr_ml422]

Well, one thing for sure is that the menu is bleeding into the picture. I just opened Olympus Has Fallen which was made with the Red background Menu and it bleeds through the picture and characters. Now, sometimes it doesn't happen because I would of noticed it, so maybe it's menu specific as there's a natural color menu also provided. I'll do the same movie with the different audio codecs just for checking that issue out. Man, you guys can't snatch an .mp4 from one of the hundreds of sites available and test it out for yourself? I'll do kit but you doing your own conversions will be even better. I'm not tinkering with any settings other than the Audio and a different menu, so you could do the same. I'll post back the logs.


Sometimes the menu bleeds into the picture and sometimes it doesn't. Now I've compared the original file to the two conversions and even at DVD-9 they weren't as clear as the original. Sometimes it's as clear as anything.

https://filebin.net/5mqvdamyolbg0fc0/Olympus_Has_Fallen_2013_1.log?t=ep26lzmb https://filebin.net/5mqvdamyolbg0fc0/Olympus_Has_Fallen_2013_2.log?t=ep26lzmb First is with Aften and Second with AviSynth. See if you can spot anything. Thanks.

The original did have a color discrepancy with a little red in the beginning and creeping through here and there. So if anything if we can try to see where we can make FFMpeg put out a better conversion.

[manolito]

Well, one thing for sure is that the menu is bleeding into the picture. I just opened Olympus Has Fallen which was made with the Red background Menu and it bleeds through the picture and characters.

I went through your log files, and I could no see any problems.

"Menu bleeding into the picture" is not possible technically (unless some Voodoo is going on inside your computer). The encoder (FFmpeg in your case) has no knowledge whatsoever about the menu you have created. Could it be that your subtitles have a funny color which shines through even in sections without subtitles? Try to make an encode with subs disabled.

For your encoder settings you are using CBR mode at the highest possible bitrate of 8500 kbps. This should give you a good quality encode, but for even better quality you can try to use HCenc 2-pass VBR mode instead.

This "Menu bleeding through" thing is something nobody else has ever experienced, so I will believe it when I see it. Upload a short section of an encode which shows the issue together with the same section cut out from the source file...

[dr_ml422]

I checked my sources and there's some with bad coloring so that was that. I think I should keep it at DVD-5 since the sources are just @ 1-2GBs... Maybe stretching it out made it downgrade the quality. I have it set to default value with encoding, which picks what's best according to the source. I'll try this HCenc 2-pass VBR mode and see what happens. Sometimes I get really great quality encodes, and sometimes not. So I don't know if the better ones are when it decides to use HCenc...

[manolito]

I checked my sources and there's some with bad coloring so that was that.
This is what I suspected right from the beginning...

I think I should keep it at DVD-5 since the sources are just @ 1-2GBs...
It does not have much to do with the size of your source files. The source files are already compressed, and the size of the sources depends on the efficiency of the compression codec. MPEG2 is not very efficient, MPEG4-ASP (Xvid, DivX) is almost twice as efficient, then comes AVC (aka H.264), and HEVC (aka H.265) is the most efficient video compressor today. (I left out other formats like VP8, VP9 or AV1).

If your source is compressed with HEVC and it has a size of 700 MB, then converting it to MPEG2 (which is used for DVD) you will likely get a size of more than 5 GB for a comparable quality.

What matters instead is the lenght of your video and the characteristics (compressability) of the video. A clip with little motion, low details and darker textures will need less bitrate than a high action clip with lots of motion, fast cuts, high details and complex textures like fog for the same quality.

My rule of thumb is that for an average movie up to a duration of a little over 2 hours a DVD-5 will be big enough for very good quality.

Maybe stretching it out made it downgrade the quality.
No way...

I have it set to default value with encoding, which picks what's best according to the source. I'll try this HCenc 2-pass VBR mode and see what happens. Sometimes I get really great quality encodes, and sometimes not. So I don't know if the better ones are when it decides to use HCenc...

Generally if you use a high bitrate (above 7000 kbps) the encoder quality is less important than for a medium or low bitrate encode. For high bitrates AVStoDVD uses FFmpeg CBR, for bitrates below 6000 kbps it uses HCenc 2-pass VBR (slightly different algo for a single core CPU).

The FFmpeg parameters are simple and not optimized for quality. But at high bitrates this does not necessarily mean that the resulting encode
will look bad. But if your computer is fast and you want the best possible quality each and every time, then you should always use HCenc 2-pass VBR mode.

[dr_ml422]

Thanks manolito. Excuse the tardiness though I don't get any notifications via my email no matter what I do. Sometimes I miss the color saturation on the source. Maybe so wound up to watch it I don't notice the colors that saturate. I've had some very impressive conversions, and then some not so great. Which player are you mostly using if I may ask? I'm used to MPC-HC, though for some reasons it will not play some of my .mkv files that all the others play, even MS's Movie & TV app. Sometimes it gives me issues with a DVD as well. The sound is great though compared to VLC etc... How could I install the Lav filters w/out using a codec pack like K-Lite etc...? Thanks.

If you haven't seen the "Joker" by Joaquin Phoenix, please do if it's something your interested in. That acting in that movie is nothing I've seen in a very long time! Really identified with the whole plot, theme etc...

[manolito]

My 2 favorite players are MPC-HC and Tiny Player. I also have VLC installed, but I only use it when both DirectShow based players fail.

In MPC-HC I have disabled the internal LAV filters and use the latest installed LAV Filters version.

You can download LAV Filters here:
https://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.74.1.exe
This is the installer version containing both 32-bit and 64-bit filters. Before installing you should remove older versions and also remove the settings from this Registry key:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV
Then install the latest version, use all the default installer settings. The only thing I have changed in the settings is activating the tray icons for all 3 components.

Tiny Player is a very lightweight DirectShow based player, very solid and fast, but no longer maintained. Download here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/tinyplayer/
The readme says that the author prefers ffdshow, but I use LAV Filters without any problems.

Cheers
manolito

[StainlessS]

This is the installer version containing both 32-bit and 64-bit filters. Before installing you should remove older versions and also remove the settings from this Registry key:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV
Then install the latest version, use all the default installer settings.


Run Regedit, Go To "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV"
Export that key with name "RestoreLav_x86_SettingsToRegistry.reg"
'reg will be auto appended.

If you have x64 Lav installed, Regedit, Go To "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV64"
Export that key with name "RestoreLav_x64_SettingsToRegistry.reg"
'reg will be auto appended.

Create this file to delete settings [will make no difference to attempt delete of LAV64 if on x86].

RemoveLavSettingsFromRegistry.reg

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[-HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV]
[-HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LAV64]

Add the files to your lav filters installer folder.

Thanks Mani.

EDIT: Damn, Lav filters v0.74.1 not for XP.
v0.70.2, seems to be last for XP.

[manolito]

From my AVStoDVD "update tools" post:

LAV Filters:
The current LAV versions require Windows Vista or higher. For a non-SSE2 CPU the nightly build 0.69.0.85 is the latest working version, under Win XP the latest working nightly is LAVFilters-0.70.2-16. So you may have to downgrade...

[dr_ml422]

Thanks manolito, StainlessS, I was able to delete the registry files and now am installing from the link manolito provided. I like that Mediainfo Lite that came with the K-Litepack. I'll just find where it's at and install it. Probably here afaik.

[manolito]

I like that Mediainfo Lite that came with the K-Litepack. I'll just find where it's at and install it. Probably here afaik.

Careful... :devil:
AVStoDVD is not compatible with current MediaInfo versions. The last working version is 18.05 , and the light version is not supported.

So please do not update the file "mediainfo.dll" in the "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder to anything newer than v. 18.05. However it should not hurt to have a different MediaInfo GUI version installed. It just could happen that the two versions report slightly different clip properties.

[dr_ml422]

Yes, of course, but I do not think that this is even necessary... :p

Comparing the logs I noticed that "Olymus has fallen" uses the ColorMatrix command to convert the colorimetry from HD (Rec.709) to SD (Rec.601). And this results in correct colors.

"Angel has fallen" does not use the Colormatrix command, and this results in darker and more greenish colors. This is an indication that the source file uses Rec.709, but is incorrectly flagged so AVStoDVD cannot recognize the source colorimetry.

This can be easily fixed by adding the ColorMatrix command manually.

https://i.postimg.cc/0Q1wyyPZ/Colormatrix.png (https://postimages.org/)

Add the Colormatrix command and use a source value of 0 and a target value of 2. This should fix it.

In any case your issue has nothing to do with the audio conversion. The FFmpeg AC3 encoder should have a slight edge over Aften these days, but I doubt that you will be able to hear the difference.


Cheers
manolito


So, there was something going on after all, even if it wasn't the Audio Encoder as I thought. This is too advanced for me right now. I can only try to do some troubleshooting whenever something pops up. This ColorMatrix command then has been the culprit in several encodings which I previously noticed darker colors.

I won't update anything regarding AVStoDVD unless it's a formal update, so Mediainfo will stay the same in that folder. I do need it installed because it helps me see what actually is in my files if I want or need something different, or to troubleshoot.

Right now MPC-HC doesn't want to play a .mkv file which plays just fine everywhere else, and so Mediainfo might be able to shed some light. Thanks.

[Mike-uk]

hmm ok so when using this
AVISYNTH SCRIPT
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Lib\A2DSource.avsi")

Video = A2DVideoSource("F:\Movies\test.mkv", CacheFolder="C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Temp", VFR=false, FrameRate=23.976)
# Audio is frameserved by AviSynth just for Preview and Edit purposes.
Audio = A2DAudioSource("F:\Movies\test.mkv", CacheFolder="C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Temp")


Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.FineSharp()
Video = Video.Spline36Resize(720,576)
Last = Video
f1=ChangeFPS(24)
f2=Trim(0,-1).AssumeFPS(24) + Trim(1,0).ChangeFPS(24)
Film=Merge(f1,f2)
p1=ChangeFPS(Film,25)
p2=Trim(Film,0,-1).AssumeFPS(25) + Trim(Film,1,0).ChangeFPS(25)
Pal=Merge(p1,p2)
Last = PAL.AssumeFPS(25)
Video = Last


AudioDub(Video, Audio)
SSRC(48000)

Trim(0,5000)

the resulting dvd has a judder every 1 second, smooth judder, smooth judder, repeat,
any idea ?
Thanks
Mike

[manolito]

Yes, this method does cause a slight judder, this is how ChangeFPS works. But the Merge() command makes this judder much less obvious (at the cost of introducing a little blending) than just using a simple ChangeFPS(25) on the 23.976 source clip.

Make a short test conversion and compare the results once using your above script and then only using ChangeFPS(25).

If you cannot live with this judder then you need to use classical PAL speedup which involves speeding up the audio, too.


More thoughts:
Is your source really pure 23.976 progressive, or does it have soft pulldown?

And yet another method you could try is to use frame rate interpolation instead of ChangeFPS. A2D comes with the (renamed) jm_fps function. To use it you need to import the MCJMFPS.avsi from the AVStoDVD\Lib folder at the top of your script and then use MCJMFPS(25) to change the frame rate. The result will not have judder and audio can be left alone. But depending on the source characteristics you could end up with some artifacts (mainly warped vertical lines). And it does not work well on anime.

[Mike-uk]

Hi manolito, thanks for the reply, using the script posted the judder is very noticeable esp on panning shots,

ill just stick with speed up, that's nice and smooth

Thanks

Mike

[manolito]

Since I cannot reproduce this very noticeable judder with the above script, I made a few tests... :cool:

Could it be that for your conversion AVStoDVD executed DGPulldown on the converted M2V? Because this is what A2D always does when the target is PAL and the source is either 23.076 or 24 NTSC progressive (and PAL speedup is not specified). To avoid this you need to rename the DGPulldown folder to something else temporarily.

Anyways, I downloaded a demo trailer with a lot of horizontal motion and converted it using 5 different methods. The results are here:
https://we.tl/t-97Xpu5NCjh

Please tell me what you think...

[Mike-uk]

Hi manolito, thanks for the test samples, ive played then all, I guess they all play smoothly on your system ??, alt merg, change fps, and dgpulldown all have the judder every 1 second, but frame rate inter and pal speed up play smooth

for my script run I renamed the dgpulldown.exe to xxxxxdgpulldownsxxx.exe and unchecked pal speed up as per you instructions, although confusing cos in a previous post you say tick speed up but that calculated the wrong size file

the pc file has a slight judder almost un noticeable but there, but once a dvd is made and played on a dvd player and tv the judder becomes very noticable

[manolito]

I guess they all play smoothly on your system ??

So far I had only watched the files on my computer, but now I burned a DVD and watched it on my ancient CRT TV. You are right, the judder is far more obvious on the TV than on the computer.

But for me only the ChangeFPS clip looks annoying, I could live with all the others. Funny thing that for me the judder is only visible on fast horizontal motion. On scenes with slow steady motion I can't see any judder.

And what really surprised me was how good the Frame Rate Interpolation clip looked. I could not see any artifacts even on the TV, and the source with all the CGI stuff is very demanding for the interpolator.

although confusing cos in a previous post you say tick speed up but that calculated the wrong size file
This only happens if you have ticked PAL Speedup, but later edit the AVS script so there will no longer be any speedup. The workaround is to untick PAL Speedup, but to avoid that DGPulldown kicks in you have to rename DGPulldown.exe. If you really want PAL Speedup then the A2D file size calculation is correct.

[Mike-uk]

thanks for testing, I think ill just stick with pal speed up for now, cant ffmpeg change the cents as its encoding to ac3, to bring it back down to original tone ?

[manolito]

Sure it can... :D
Have a look here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1879712#post1879712

[Mike-uk]

Sure it can... :D
Have a look here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1879712#post1879712

ah ok thanks I kinda glossed over that at the time :D, ill have a play and see what the results are

Thanks

Mike

[dr_ml422]

@manolito Wow! That 2 Pass with HCencVBR you suggested is right on the money! I knew that something had to give because when I use DVD-RB Pro, it uses the HCenc and the results are immaculate. Thanks again. I'll maybe take a look at that Tiny player just for kicks. For the preview to work natively from the app, ffdshow has to be installed, otherwise you have to set it to use an external player.

[mayasl]

AVStoDVD ver: 2.8.8
AviSynth: 2.6

Please assist me to create a DVD with DTS audio from the following file.

Source details:
General
Unique ID : xxxxxxxx
Complete name : xxxxx.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 3.27 GiB
Duration : 1 h 24 min
Overall bit rate : 5 562 kb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2020-03-05 18:45:42
Writing application : mkvmerge v42.0.0 ('Overtime') 32-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.10 + libmatroska v1.5.2

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 8 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 8 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1 h 24 min
Bit rate : 4 050 kb/s
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.183
Stream size : 2.39 GiB (73%)
Writing library : x264 core 159 r2991 1771b55
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:-3:-3 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=16 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=4050 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1 h 24 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 910 MiB (27%)
Title : English
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:08:15.453 : en:Chapter 02
00:16:59.852 : en:Chapter 03
00:27:19.179 : en:Chapter 04
00:38:09.954 : en:Chapter 05
00:48:38.374 : en:Chapter 06
00:56:55.621 : en:Chapter 07
01:02:34.459 : en:Chapter 08
01:12:30.596 : en:Chapter 09
01:21:39.978 : en:Chapter 10

[Mike-uk]

AVStoDVD ver: 2.8.8
AviSynth: 2.6

Please assist me to create a DVD with DTS audio from the following file.

Source details:

from reading, avs2dvd does not encode to DTS format only ac-3 wav and mp2 I guess this is due to licencing issues with DTS labs

it also seems DTS source audio tracks need to be 20bit or lower to be direct copied by avs2dvd, this apparently is a muxman problem ? , id guess Blu-ray source files are 24bit DTS audio, as is your MKV so will need re encoding

as quoted by Mrc, Many (I would say all) 24bit DTS tracks are refused by muxman. Sometimes it refuses 20bit tracks as well... hence the DTS compliance is not 100% solved. (wheter this is still relevant im not sure)

so I guess your options are, AC-3, or find a way of re encoding your DTS audio tracks to 20bit and hopfully avs2dvd will direct copy, and hopefully muxman will accept it

and do you really need DTS on a DVD ???, AC-3 is almost on par

on a Blu ray, yes I understand, superior picture and audio DTS-HD and master, im guessing DTS will take up more space leaving a lot less space for the video on a dvd ?, considering your compressing video from a already compressed video at only 3 gig to start with for 1hr+ of footage the sorce is prob not the best to start with

[manolito]

and do you really need DTS on a DVD ???, AC-3 is almost on par

Totally agreed...

Also keep in mind that DTS audio is not a mandatory format for DVDs, it is only optional. There are tons of standalone DVD players out there without a built-in DTS decoder. A DVD with only a DTS audio track without also having one of the mandatory audio formats is NOT DVD compliant.

[dr_ml422]

Hi manolito I have a question. I've been getting the warning "A file with AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) audio stream has been added, and default audio codec is Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio decoder". I haven't changed anything with regards to my LAV filters so unless Windows did this on its own I have no idea where this is coming from. Anyway the DVD came out just fine. I did go and use the tool to have LAV filters as default. Should I change the Avisynth tab settings in preferences and set video and audio source filters to FFMpegSource? Thanks.

[manolito]

Are you using Win10?
The only reason I can think of that your DS Filter Settings change by itself is that Win10 updates change these filter settings back to the original Windows filters.

If using the Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio decoder gives you good results (check for Audio/Video sync problems) then of course you can use these filters. Or rerun the Filter Tweaker tool after each Windows update.

Ditching DirectShow altogether and using FFmpegSource as your source filters is an alternative. The only drawback is that the source files need to be indexed which can take some time for longer sources.

[dr_ml422]

Yes you were correct. It was an update after which the settings were changed. Everything's fine now. Thanks. Running the Filter Tweaker Tool doesn't automatically change everything to LAV Filters. You have to make the changes yourself for each item.

[MrC]

Guys, back in business... after some time I finally decided that 2.8.9 must have a final build. So... here you are a new alpha ;)

AVStoDVD 289 Alpha 200925 @ SourceForge (https://sourceforge.net/projects/avstodvd/files/avstodvd_alpha_beta/AVStoDVD%202.8.9%20Alpha%20200925/)

Cumulative changes log from release 2.8.8. Changes from latest alpha are marked with +.

- Added support to PGS BluRay subtitles
- Added handling and display of MediaInfo BitDepth video tag
+ Added support to 7 and 8 channels audio source (Downmix.avsi script file updated, thanks to Manolito)
+ Added Chapters section to Demux File tool
- Improved Muxing routine: better errors handling and switch to FFmpeg (instead of Mplex) when no audio source is present
- Improved usage of FFMS2: now YV12 colorspace is always specified (A2DSource external AviSynth function updated as well)
- Improved AviSynth program info retrieving routine (now using AVSMeter)
+ Improved Seek Chapters routine (new "aggressive" mode added, original mode is now called "mild" mode)
- LAV Filters updated to release 0.74.1
- AVSMeter updated to 2.6.5.1 (2.6.5 modded release to improve reading speed)
+ MediaInfo updated to release 18.05

;)

Bye

[manolito]

Guys, back in business...

:):):)

Will start testing tomorrow...

[MrC]

:):):)

Will start testing tomorrow...

:thanks: manolito, for that, for the patches, for the mods and for all the support here and @ VideoHelp in the last months

Bye

[manolito]

My pleasure... :D

Finished my tests with this new build, not much to report:

A very very small correction to the German language file:
104087 SSA/ASS Untertitel in SRT konvertieren
Just cosmetic, brings it more in line with other translated lines.


The addition of the new audio downmix functions works well.

I noticed that you overhauled the menu highlight colors. Also no problems, the only thing is for folks who overinstall the new build over an older build will have to reselect the hightlight colors to get the colors they want.

As usual I did not test the new subtitle features, this should be tested by users who actually use subs.

My tests were under WinXP and Win7 - 64bit, Win10 users should make their own tests.


There were reports by Win10 users that the preview did not work for them. I cannot reproduce this.
Another Win10 related issue seems to be that Win10 updates can sometimes reset the preferred DS filters to the original MS DMO filters.


If you intend to release a last and final stable version of AVStoDVD there are a couple of considerations how you could harden it for the future. The DVD specs are static, only new source file formats may cause problems. The source filters should handle new formats, the problem I see is with MediaInfo. The current MediaInfo versions do not work with A2D since Zenitram changed the output format. But even if you made A2D compatible with current MediaInfo versions (which would mean a lot of work) there could still be problems in the future. Right now there are already issues with multichannel audio. There are many different 8-ch audio formats, and MediaInfo reports very different output for the number of channels. Sometimes A2D interprets such MediaInfo output as 0 channels. The workaround is to play the source file with a DS based player and check the LAV audio status tab which reports the number of channels which LAV sees. Then the user can manually change the number of audio input channels in A2D.

Of course Win10 updates are another threat for the future stability of A2D, but there is nothing you can do about it.


Whatever, as far as I am concerned this new build is ready to go stable... ;)


Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

I almost forgot to mention a long standing issue when users specify to use an external player AND the default source filter is A2DSource...

(I stumbled upon this issue after recommending to use an external player to users who could not get the internal preview working.)

When A2DSource is selected then the AviSynthP.avs script loads A2DSource.avsi from the "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder. But AviSynthP.avs is called while the active folder is "C:\Windows". This means that A2DSource.avsi is not executed correctly, so the external player will either not work at all, or there will be no audio. Including the Lib folder in the Path does not fix it.

The current workaround is to use DirectShowSource or FFMS2 instead of A2DSource. To fix the issue completely AVStoDVD would need to make the Lib folder the active folder before calling the preview.


Cheers
manolito

[MrC]

Hi manolito, thanks again for the valuable inputs.

A very very small correction to the German language file:

Just cosmetic, brings it more in line with other translated lines.

Good, a final build should address cosmetic issue as well ;)

I noticed that you overhauled the menu highlight colors. Also no problems, the only thing is for folks who overinstall the new build over an older build will have to reselect the hightlight colors to get the colors they want.

You are right, but it was a necessary change, there was a bug in HL colors management. I can add to the History.txt change log section a note to do a complete uninstall before installing 2.8.9.

There were reports by Win10 users that the preview did not work for them. I cannot reproduce this.

I'm aware of this limitation with Win10. Unfortunately I have not found yet a more recent alternative to quartz.dll library. Still searching.

Another Win10 related issue seems to be that Win10 updates can sometimes reset the preferred DS filters to the original MS DMO filters.

True, something definitively out of my control. BTW there is already a warning message if a AVC/AAC file is added and if MS filters are the default filters. Hope it is enough to remind users to switch to LAVs.

Right now there are already issues with multichannel audio. There are many different 8-ch audio formats, and MediaInfo reports very different output for the number of channels. Sometimes A2D interprets such MediaInfo output as 0 channels. The workaround is to play the source file with a DS based player and check the LAV audio status tab which reports the number of channels which LAV sees. Then the user can manually change the number of audio input channels in A2D.

Likely the routine I use to detect AviSynth script properties could come in handy as "backup plan" when Mediainfo 18.05 is messing with audio channels. I will give it a try. Could slow down the file properties reading section.

When A2DSource is selected then the AviSynthP.avs script loads A2DSource.avsi from the "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder. But AviSynthP.avs is called while the active folder is "C:\Windows". This means that A2DSource.avsi is not executed correctly, so the external player will either not work at all, or there will be no audio. Including the Lib folder in the Path does not fix it.

Truly, I cannot reproduce the issue: I have tried with WMPlayer and Tiny Player as external player and the script is rendered properly, both video and audio. The script (AviSynthP.avs, stored in the Temp folder) is exactly the script used during A2D conversion processes, with a simple resizing command at the end to output the correct AR. If the preview is failing, the conversion should fail as well...
Or, maybe, I did not get the issue. :o

;)

Bye

[manolito]

Hi MrC,

I found the post where I published my 8-ch audio findings:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1893390#post1893390

Unfortunately I did not keep my test clips, and demo-world.eu closed shop recently.

But you could use AVSMeter instead of MediaInfo to retrieve the number of audio channels which the currently used source filter actually sees. No idea if this is feasible...


For the external player issue I made more tests, this time including WinXP and Win7-64. Results:

WMP and Tiny Player worked under both OS

MPC-HC 32 gave this error:
https://i.postimg.cc/HxC6bPHS/MPC-HC-32.png (https://postimages.org/)

VirtualDub 1.6.19 did not find an audio decompressor:
https://i.postimg.cc/nrS5KY3C/VDub-Error.png (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/0N5B4Bhb/VDub-Info.png (https://postimages.org/)

For me especially VDub is an excellent replacement for the internal preview, because it allows me to do multiple cuts (editing out commercials), and with the help of a small utility called VCF2AVS the edit points can be translated into AviSynth Trim commands.
And as I already mentioned the problems disappear when I use FFMS2 or DirectShowSource, so it must be related to the fact that A2DSource.avsi lies in a different folder so the plugins it tries to load do not load correctly. This happens only for the preview, the encoding is not affected.


Cheers
manolito


//EDIT//
Good news, I managed to solve the problems with the external players...

For MPC-HC it was necessary to copy all the plugin DLLs from the "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder into the "AviSynth\plugins" folder. Easy enough, and I do not expect any adverse effects as long as the plugins in both folders are identical.

For VDub I believe that my old version 1.6.19 was to blame. Upgrading to the latest VDub2 version solved it, and so far this VDub version seems to work nicely even on my ancient desktop computer.

[MrC]

Hi manolito, thanks for the double check with VirtualDub2 and MPC-HC.

Another oddity with MPC-HC is that anytime I feed it with a simple AVISource() script, it chokes (no render). Since AVISource is the first choice in A2DSource, that could be another reason of preview failure with MPC-HC.

The AVSMeter workaround to grab audio channels works well. E.g. some dolby atmos tracks are read by MediaInfo as "15 objects / 6 channels". Very, very misleading. AVSMeter way or improved MediaInfo string parsing? Will do some testing. If you have any other exotic audio tracks, please advise.

;)

Bye

[manolito]

For some 8-ch demo clips I found www.demolandia.net quite useful (too bad that demo-world.eu has closed down).

AVSMeter way or improved MediaInfo string parsing?
I think that AVSMeter is safer, but also slower. For clips with more than 1 audio track you would have to check the number of audio channels separately for each track, and you would have to use FFMS2 for each track higher than #1. Tough decision...

Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

Another oddity with MPC-HC is that anytime I feed it with a simple AVISource() script, it chokes (no render)

Are you sure you used the 32-bit version of MPC-HC? Because I get this error only when using MPC-HC 64.

And I also managed to find the reason why my old VDub version could not decompress the audio when using it for the preview.
This old version cannot handle 32-bit float audio... :scared:
At some point in the A2D develoment you added the line
global OPT_AllowFloatAudio = True
at the beginning of A2DSource.avsi. This command is not present in the AVS script when a source filter like FFMpegSource or DirectShowSource is explicitly specified under preferences, so the old VDub will work. Only if A2DSource is used VDub will choke.


Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

FWIW I found another method at StackOverflow for determining the number of audio channels. It uses FFProbe, this is the call:

ffprobe -i yourFile.mp4 -show_entries stream=channels -select_streams a:0 -of compact=p=0:nk=1 -v 0

It looks much clearer than the MediaInfo output for several 8-ch formats. No idea if it is as reliable as the AVSMeter method.

The StackOverflow page is here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47905083/how-to-check-number-of-channels-in-my-audio-wav-file-using-ffmpeg-command

[MrC]

Are you sure you used the 32-bit version of MPC-HC? Because I get this error only when using MPC-HC 64.
Yes, both with 32bit and 64bit :)

And I also managed to find the reason why my old VDub version could not decompress the audio when using it for the preview.
This old version cannot handle 32-bit float audio... :scared:
At some point in the A2D develoment you added the line
global OPT_AllowFloatAudio = True
at the beginning of A2DSource.avsi. This command is not present in the AVS script when a source filter like FFMpegSource or DirectShowSource is explicitly specified under preferences, so the old VDub will work. Only if A2DSource is used VDub will choke.

My memory is fading, but I found this 2015 thread (https://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-172310.html) about the topic.

FWIW I found another method at StackOverflow for determining the number of audio channels. It uses FFProbe, this is the call:

It looks much clearer than the MediaInfo output for several 8-ch formats. No idea if it is as reliable as the AVSMeter method.

The StackOverflow page is here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47905083/how-to-check-number-of-channels-in-my-audio-wav-file-using-ffmpeg-command

Thanks, that could be a good alternative basically for all clip properties. Now I'm trying to improve parsing of MediaInfo "verbose" output. I would come out with a quick fix in the next days.

;)

Bye

[MrC]

About the preview issue with Win10, another alternative could be to use Graph Studio Next (https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/graphstudionext.html) to open and run the AviSynth script within a clear directshow environment (unfortunately GraphStudio 0.3.2.0 does not support the run command thru CLI).

;)

Bye

[manolito]

The more I dig into these 8-ch audio formats, the more confusing it gets. I am sure glad that I only have a stereo sound system... :devil:

I have tested these formats:
DD+ (aka E-AC3) 7.1
DTS-HD MA 7.1
Dolby ATMOS/TrueHD/EAC3

For the DD+ 7.1 format MediaInfo as well as LAV Audio only see 6 channels. This audio format is handled correctly by A2D.

The DTS-HD MA 7.1 format also contains a 6-ch audio stream, and MediaInfo reports it as 8 / 6 channels which causes A2D to issue invalid downmix commands like "Dmix8 / 66()". LAV Audio sees it as 8-ch, so the MediaInfo parsing must be corrected to 8.

For Dolby ATMOS MediaInfo sees 3 audio streams. The first one is ATMOS which right now cannot be decoded by any free audio decoder. So A2D sees it as having 0 channels which of course results in a crash in DownMix.avsi. LAV Audio sees it as 8-ch.


If 8-ch audio is only available in these 3 formats then it should be easy to correct the MediaInfo parsing.

But I found some more confusing facts:
8-ch audio tracks can consist of several audio streams within one track. This concept is rather new to me. MediaInfo 18.05 enumerates the audio as tracks while all FFMpeg based software enumerates the audio as streams. This means trouble for AVStoDVD.

LAV Audio has no way for a user to specify a certain stream from an audio track, it always uses the first stream within a track which it can decode. A specific stream can be selected at playback via LAV splitter (right-click on the splitter tray icon), but I have found no way to select a specific stream within a track for AVStoDVD. So with the exception of DD+ 7.1 LAV Audio will always see 8-ch audio.

If more than one audio track should be included in the A2D project, and the first audio track has 8 channels, the result will be broken. A2D needs to use FFMS2 as the source filter for the second audio track (because DS based source filters do not allow to select the audio track). But if the first audio track contains more than 1 stream, the FFMS2 enumeration will see 2 or more streams in the first audio track pushing up the index numbers. In the case of 2 audio streams within the first audio track the index number for the second audio track will be 3 (instead of 2). This is probably tough to fix.


Cheers
manolito

[MrC]

That's weird. But intriguing ;)

First step is to read properly ATMOS clips. Time to put aside MediaInfo and to embrace FFprobe? It could be a good idea... maybe giving the user the option to choose the media reader in the Preferences... to consider for 2.9.0 release.

;)

Bye

[manolito]

I don't know if handling 8-ch audio correctly for DVD output is worth all the trouble... :(

My workaround is to preprocess source clips with 8-ch audio using dmMediaConverter. This is an FFMpeg GUI specializing in video conversion, and it is very smart. Source clips with 8-ch audio are shown stream based, you can easily select or discard specific audio streams. If you want to downmix audio streams you can either do it into WAV or into the desired DVD target audio format. For video you just use "Copy", and the target container should be MKV. This MKV can be used as the A2D source file, and I never had any issues with the conversion.


Cheers
manolito

[MrC]

Probably you are right, btw sometimes troubles mean fun. Just to save some time...

On the path of releasing 2.8.9 final: hotfix (https://sites.google.com/site/avstodvdmain/AVStoDVD_289_Alpha201004_exe_only.7z) with improvements to define previewer (default external for Win10) and better parsing of Mediainfo audio channels.

;)

Bye

[manolito]

...and better parsing of Mediainfo audio channels.

Thanks, this is a major progress, and the number of audio channels are now correctly detected even for the most demanding source files... :D

The test clip I mostly use is the helicopter demo from here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwxFVkl63-lENElIcC1xTnF2Yk0
It has 2 audio tracks, but 3 audio streams. A nasty thing is that the second audio track contains an E-AC3 stream where MediaInfo reports 15 objects first, so A2D used to think that it had 15 audio channels.

This is now completely fixed, I tested at least 10 clips with 8-ch audio, and this new build always detected the correct number of channels.

There is a small glitch in the A2D GUI, though. For a source with 2 audio tracks users can switch the active audio track in the "View/Edit Titles" window. The change is correctly reflected in the AviSynth tab, and the preview also uses the selected audio track. But after selecting audio track #2 and pressing OK it is not possible to edit the title properties for audio track #2. Only track #1 shows up for editing, I found no way to select track #2.

As long as A2D detects the correct number of channels (which it does now) this is not a big problem, but it would be nice if it would get fixed.


The other bigger issue is for sources with more than 1 audio track. The "Helicopter" clip is a good example. The first audio track has two streams, so the index numbers for the audio get shifted if an FFMpeg based (i.e. stream based) software is used. If I specify to include both audio tracks in my project then FFMS2 will be called with "track=2" for the second audio track. This is wrong, to use the audio in the second audio track FFMS2 would have to be called with "track=3".

I cannot think of an automatic and foolproof way to fix this. It is the "culture clash" between enumerating audio track based or stream based. A foolproof workaround is to repack such source files into an MKV container before feeding them to AVStoDVD (MKVToolnix does this painlessly). When you feed this MKV into A2D every audio stream becomes a separate audio track again, and FFMS2 will use the correct track number for the second (or higher) audio track.


Whatever, thanks again for this latest build, it solves many problems...

Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

I cannot think of an automatic and foolproof way to fix this. It is the "culture clash" between enumerating audio track based or stream based.
Maybe there is a way to determine if a track contains more than one audio stream by parsing the MediaInfo output. For a typical audio track with ATMOS/TrueHD plus an AC3 substream Mediainfo reports this:
Format profile : TrueHD+Atmos / TrueHD / AC-3
Channel(s) : Object Based / 8 channels / 6 channels

Both keys could be used IMO. An entry with "Atmos" or "Object Based" needs to be ignored, and if there are more than one entries left you will know that there is one or more additional substreams in this track. In the above example there is one substream, this means that 1 has to be added to the track number of the second and higher audio tracks for FFMS2 to work correctly.

For all the 8-ch clips I tested only the first audio track ever contained more than one stream, so it would not be hard to implement this. Of course I have no idea if higher audio tracks can also have more than one stream. If yes this would complicate the math to pass the correct track number to FFMS2.

Just an idea... ;)

Cheers
manolito

[MrC]

Thanks manolito for all the research. Frankly speaking I would not spend too much time to fix that mismatch between Mediainfo and FFmpeg. I don't know which program is handling properly the recent 8 channels audio tracks. Right now I prefer to stand by the window and see if the 2 apps come to a convergence. If not, I will second FFmpeg and for 2.9.0 release (2025 maybe? :rolleyes:) I can develop a new media info parser from FFprobe output (xml or json based).

Meanwhile I will add a new entry in the FAQ audio section, to suggest to use MKVtoolnix in case of "problematic" 8 channels tracks.

;)

Bye

[manolito]

I have my doubts that MediaInfo and FFMpeg will ever come to a convergence in this respect. And in 2025 nobody except a few geezers like you and me will even know that the DVD format ever existed... :devil:

But I do agree with your conclusion. It is hardly worth the trouble to make A2D foolproof for handling source videos with 8-ch audio, especially for ATMOS. Experienced users have a choice of several workarounds.

But still I have a hard time conceiling the fact that I am a perfectionist. It bugs me that software like DVDStyler which is completely FFMpeg based can handle such sources without problems, and AVStoDVD cannot... :eek:

This issue would not exist if DirectShowSource had a way to specify a specific audio track for decoding (like FFMS2 and LSMASH have). Probably this won't happen anytime soon.


Cheers
manolito